[HN Gopher] Pimp My BBC Micro
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Pimp My BBC Micro
Author : dekuNukem
Score : 277 points
Date : 2022-10-06 11:15 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| reaperducer wrote:
| In 1990 I did something similar with a Commodore 64. Mine wasn't
| as slick and well done as this one, but it had a C-64, two floppy
| drives, internal modem, RAM expansion, and three cartridge ports
| selectable via push button, in a case intended for an IBM clone.
| I was never able to find a good case for the keyboard, so I ended
| up putting it in a cardboard cookie box until I could find
| something better.
|
| After that experience, I got into the world of build-your-own IBM
| clones, and I don't remember what ever happened to the 64. Kinda
| sad.
| FujiApple wrote:
| It is hard to overstate the impact that having a BBC micro in my
| 1980s rural primary school had on my career, without that I'd
| almost certainly have had a very different path through life. My
| eternal gratitude to whichever executive or politician decided to
| fund that program.
| wobbleblob wrote:
| It was the Electron for me. Bought it new for the equivalent of
| less than #100 when Acorn discontinued it, the only computer I
| could afford from my allowance. Incidentally it also forced me
| to learn German and English as a kid, to be able to read the
| manuals and Acorn Magazine.
|
| Second to learning to read, that machine probably had the
| largest influence on my career
| dotBen wrote:
| Lots of late 30's/early 40-something Brits in this sub thread I
| think :D
|
| BBC Micro was the first computer I ever used, in 1986 upon
| entering primary school. I remember learning DART and
| programing the turtle to move around using LOGO (we actually
| had a physical version too from what I remember).
|
| My elderly year 1 primary school teacher disliked the computer,
| however, and told us we needed to spend the time learning to
| write in pen because "we wouldn't be able to carry a computer
| on our back for the rest of our lives"!
|
| My parents soon bought an Acorn A3000 (32bit home computing in
| 1988!) and I would type out BASIC programs from books from the
| library and then later edit them to discover I could do my own
| programming. I don't think there was any free/open source (what
| we used to call 'shareware') WIMP tools so being about 10 years
| old my programming was strictly relegated to BASIC as that's
| all we had.
|
| I'm a bit depressed to think that Margaret Thatcher had a
| direct impact on my career in tech, however :/
| aembleton wrote:
| Here you are. You can feel the nostalgia
| https://usborne.com/gb/books/computer-and-coding-books
| aembleton wrote:
| > I would type out BASIC programs from books from the library
|
| So did I. Were they the Usbourne books? I found the books
| again online a few years ago. Don't have a link unfortunately
| sparks1970 wrote:
| Likewise. I owe a lot to the BBC micro.
|
| A few years ago UK schools were flooded with BBC:Micro Bits -
| everyone in my son's year-group received one.
|
| I think the idea was similar, seed a new generation with
| technical know-how. I'm not sure if it will work this time - I
| guess we will have to wait and see.
| _joel wrote:
| It was really. I worked at the beeb when it was being worked
| on and it was very much tyring to strip back all the cludgy
| layers built up and get real interaction with the device,
| much the same way as the original did. Yes, there were Pi's
| but there's a lot more to the stack in that. Hopefully they
| don't overheat (that was part of my testing I helped with :)
| ) As for it's efficacy, it definitely sparked a few minds but
| I don't think anywhere near the effect the original had.
| There's so many more distraction nowadays for kids too.
| dspillett wrote:
| Less so having them in school, but I cut my programming teeth
| on an Acorn Electron, then later a BBC Master, that we had at
| home.
|
| Mostly in BASIC (a better implementation than most common
| 8-bits had: proper procs & functions rather than just
| GOTO/GOSUB and decent variable name length limits) but later
| with a bit of 6502 assembler added in for sprite drawing/moving
| & similar (BBC BASIC had a built-in multi-pass assembler -
| another significant point in its favour).
|
| I doubt I'd be where I am today if I'd not had that (and my
| parents had not had the foresight to let me stretch bed-time
| rules when doing something learn-y rather than just playing
| games!).
| FujiApple wrote:
| Story time:
|
| When the BBC micro arrived at my tiny rural school the elderly
| teacher had been given instructions for how to type in and run
| a simple "hello world" style program to demonstrate what this
| amazing machine could do.
|
| She began copy-typing in the program and then invited each of
| us to sit at the keyboard and add our names to what I imagine
| was a simple print statement.
|
| Finally, after quite some time going around the whole class one
| by one, the program was ready and she pressed return and ..
|
| Syntax error
|
| The machine was promptly powered off and put back in the box.
|
| It would be a few years before it reemerged and, thankfully,
| captured my interest.
| sshagent wrote:
| Most my friends had Spectrums, i was looking forward to gaming
| when Santa would surely bring me one too. Alas i got an Acorn
| Electron. Turns out, having the different system that my
| extended friend group meant i spent time messing about with
| coding than gaming. So whilst 'young james' was probably
| unreasonably unhappy with that Christmas, i think in hindsight
| it was amazing :)
| harry-wood wrote:
| Similar. That Christmas when my dad & I started working
| through the BBC BASIC manual, I thought that this _was_ the
| exciting experience of owning a computer which my friends
| were all on about (and I was excited by it!)
|
| ...It was only some time later I learned about loading pre-
| written programs (games) on it.
| _joel wrote:
| Similar feels but for a 1996 Linux book at Christmas
| stevekemp wrote:
| I've written about this before in more detail:
|
| https://blog.steve.fi/how_i_started_programming.html
|
| But the reason I started coding in BASIC was because when
| we received a ZX Spectrum for Christmas one year the
| cassette player was broken - no preloaded games for us.
|
| I was always more interested in programming, and hacking
| games for infinite lives than actually playing games!
| timthorn wrote:
| The archive of the BBC's Computer Literacy Project, of which
| the BBC Micro was a key part, is now online. Lots of
| fascinating programmes: https://clp.bbcrewind.co.uk/
| discretion22 wrote:
| The politician was Margaret Thatcher and the Department Of
| Trade And Industry (the website calls it Transport and Industry
| which looks like a typo as transport was the Ministry of
| Transport) paid 50% of the cost for schools purchasing
| computers from the Research Machines 380Z, the BBC Micro plus
| (I didn't know this) the Spectrum.
|
| https://briansmithonline.com/computing/national-curriculum/c...
|
| Placing this under the DTI, instead of Ministry of Education,
| suggests the intention was to encourage success stories
| precisely like yours; build skills for future employment in
| industry and building IT literate professionals to enable
| future UK trade. Surprisingly forward looking for any
| government department!
|
| We were lucky enough to have both the 380Z and the BBC Micro
| (plus some Acorn Atom's as budget alternatives and a number of
| Apple ][ that pre-dated the whole computers in schools program)
| plus ECONET ! Our Computing Department head was involved in
| setting up the program, so we lucky and got a bit of almost
| everything except the Spectrum. We also had a few different
| languages available, Comal, Pascal plus the obvious BBC BASIC.
| I also got to play with a BASIC Compiler (Apple ][ Expediter if
| I recall the name correctly). I was incredibly lucky as a
| result of the teacher being involved in setting up the program
| and the early Computing courses and examinations.
| lambic wrote:
| I helped my math teacher (we didn't have computer science
| yet) set up econet in the computer lab so learned all about
| how it worked (all of which I've now forgotten) and took
| advantage of its lack of security for the rest of the year.
|
| We also transitioned from actual typewriters to beebs in
| typing class, and I ended up writing a user(/idiots) guide
| for the beeb word processor.
| ecpottinger wrote:
| Here it was PetNet, it was amazing how much more the
| students knew about the computers than the teachers who
| were suppose to teach them.
| FujiApple wrote:
| Thanks for the history, really interesting.
|
| > Surprisingly forward looking for any government department!
|
| Indeed!
| asadhayatt wrote:
| that was awesome
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| Thatcher was not prime minister when the DTI was established.
| She was prime minister when the BBC Micro was developed and
| released. Did she play some role in the development or
| approval of the project?
|
| Wikipedia's history doesn't mention anything about
| politicians being involved.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Micro#History
| watmough wrote:
| Pretty sure Kenneth Baker was involved.
|
| I'll look into this some more and check back.
|
| ... Yes, Kenneth Baker was appointed Minister for
| Information Technology in 1981, by PM Margaret Thatcher.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Baker,_Baron_Baker_of
| _... [wikipedia]
|
| https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=kennet
| h... [lots of good links here]
|
| source: I'm old, and Google is still awesome.
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| Thanks. It seems Baker championed the project from the
| start.
| ecpottinger wrote:
| While the Apple II and the PET/Commodore 64 were big here in
| Canada, I sure wished we had the BBC Micro here too.
| BirAdam wrote:
| Coolest part, imho, is the ATX4VC. I rather like to keep my
| vintage computers as close to original as possible, but the PSU
| change is super handy!
| outworlder wrote:
| Good thing is, those changes are _generally_ reversible. In
| some computers you might have to cut board traces though.
| Arathorn wrote:
| awww -
| https://github.com/dekuNukem/RGBeeb/raw/master/photos/torch....
| was my second ever computer. never thought i'd see one on HN; i
| miss the yellow-on-blue wonders of CPM :(
| Grazester wrote:
| "BBC Micro motherboard requires two voltages: +5V and -5V. The
| former powers all the chips, and the latter only for sound and
| serial communication. Fortunately, 5V is readily available on a
| ATX PSU, and -5V can be derived from -12V with a simple 7905
| linear regulator"
|
| The power ATX power supply also supplied -5 volts. Why did they
| need to use a linear regulator to on the -12v line derive -5v?
|
| Edit:// my question was previously asked an answered.
| adrian_b wrote:
| Since 2003 (ATX12V version 1.3), the -5 V rail has become
| optional.
|
| Most recent power supplies no longer provide it.
| 6stringmerc wrote:
| How clever! Getting the introduction section really helped. Glad
| to check it out, highly recommended!
| rbanffy wrote:
| After playing with a C64 Maxi replica (mine has the VIC-20
| colors) I can't think of using a vintage computer without a
| matching keyboard (and often mouse). The experience is not only
| the pixels on the screen and the sounds of the speaker, but the
| whole spatial relationship with the physical object.
|
| It probably doesn't need to be an almost perfect replica like the
| 64 Maxi, but having the keys in the same places (even if there is
| no ESC key - looking at you, DEC LK-201). On my desk, my two
| daily drivers are a Sun Type 7c (Type 7 is in storage, waiting
| for its rotation) and an IBM/Lexmark/Unicomp PC-122 Model M, and
| I can say each of them provides a unique experience, tactile,
| spatial, and, on the Model M's case, auditory.
|
| I'm thinking about learning how to build keyboards and make a
| couple DIY ones. Switches can't be the same, but, at least,
| physical layout, keycap shapes, labels, and colors can be
| matched.
| mrlonglong wrote:
| I had an amstrad PC1512 with a 32MB hard card. This was awesome
| for college and uni as everyone used x86 machines.
| TwoNineA wrote:
| Oh, I knew I recognized that name somewhere. Thank you for the
| duckyPad, it's awesome.
| 3stripe wrote:
| Are there any safety considerations with regards to having the
| power supply and other innards exposed?
| Bayart wrote:
| Having the PSU case exposed is electrically identical to having
| a pc case exposed. Having it opened on the other hand is a
| danger. PSU capacitors are known to be large enough to kill.
| ZiiS wrote:
| The ATX PSU (labeled CX650F here) converts wall power to a
| maximum of 12v DC. It's metal case is earthed so short of
| sticking pointy metal bits though the fan grills it is safe to
| touch.
|
| The rest of the system only sees the 12v DC or less which
| remains completely safe to touch. The PSU can not (and will not
| due to fuses) supply enough current to risk fire (like a 12v
| car battery).
| Phelinofist wrote:
| Why does it have a 650W PSU? I would assume the components are
| quite light on the power consumption.
|
| To be clear: that is an amazing project and I don't want to take
| anything away from it, just wondering.
| tenebrisalietum wrote:
| Is it a fair heuristic that higher wattage PSUs are higher
| quality?
|
| Also since the desktop market is pretty much servicing mostly
| gamers at this point, can you even get a ATX PSU under 500W
| anymore?
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| _Looks at his pile of spare PSUs_ I 'd probably have stuck an
| 800W in there just because that's what's sitting unused in the
| cupboard =D
| outworlder wrote:
| > It might be relatively unknown outside UK
|
| They are well known to anyone that was interested in Elite. BBC
| Micro has the best Elite version, after all :)
|
| That said, that ATX4VC thing looks fantastic. I have recently
| restored a MSX computer back to life, but I think the power
| supply is unstable and crapping up when the machine warms up. It
| also contributes significant noise. Maybe it's time to replace
| with a modern PSU instead of spending time trying to fix the
| wimpy transformer-based PSU.
|
| EDIT: I realize that cheap devices like this already existed. But
| this one seems to be much more complete (and trustworthy!). It's
| too bad that many printers use 24V rather than 12, otherwise this
| would be helpful for those scenarios too.
| harry-wood wrote:
| Strong nostalgia whenever I see the BBC Elite opening screen!
|
| These days we can re-live it easily in the browser:
| https://bbc.godbolt.org/?autoboot&disc=sth%3AAcornsoft%2FEli...
| Although I can also recommend "oolite": http://www.oolite.org/
| which is an open source modernised elite with game play kept
| quite faithful to the original (I'm currently hooked on this
| and wasting more my life trying to get that "Elite" rating all
| over again)
| flir wrote:
| This is glorious.
| tambourine_man wrote:
| Great project. Caught a typo:
|
| > beating even the original _IMB PC_!
| ectopod wrote:
| Also
|
| > low and behold
| jagged-chisel wrote:
| > Nobody ever got fired for choosing IMB
| tambourine_man wrote:
| IMDb
| madengr wrote:
| pvitz wrote:
| Really great project!
|
| What I didn't understand was why there is a need for a 7905 to
| convert -12V to -5V. It looks like that pin 20 should be
| providing the -5V already?
| dekuNukem wrote:
| -5V has became optional in recent ATX specifications, and many
| newer PSUs don't have it at all. (including the one I used
| here)
|
| -12V is still mandated and on all ATX PSUs, so it's more
| compatible to get -5V out of that.
| rzzzt wrote:
| Backplanes of industrial PCs occasionally also have a spot
| for adding a -5V voltage regulator for the same reason.
| hkgjjgjfjfjfjf wrote:
| watmough wrote:
| Not sure I like that knock-off copy of WordWise.
|
| The original company Computer Concepts, now renamed Xara GMBH are
| amazingly still around! Wonder if they did a 40 years in business
| celebration?
| jebronie wrote:
| What a submission title.
| ezekg wrote:
| I saw it and I thought dang had finally been defeated.
| CharlesW wrote:
| In case you fall outside the target audience for the reference:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimp_My_Ride
| ezekg wrote:
| Also see urban dictionary for BBC...
| hinkley wrote:
| I wonder if those floppies are a standard connector that would
| accept an upgrade to more compact designs.
| JaDogg wrote:
| Very good project. duckyPad looks good as well.
|
| _guiltily look at few raspberry pi I have lying around_
| macshome wrote:
| I'm not an RGB sort of guy, but that backlit motherboard is
| amazing.
|
| This whole thing is a great read and an amazing labor of love.
| jamiek88 wrote:
| This thread and memories made me tear up.
|
| BBC micro and econet were amazingly hackable and still have fond
| memories.
|
| Bruteus you in this thread? It's Apollo here!
|
| (Bruteus and Apollo fucking _owned_ our econet. Until we got
| suspended and banned of course. Hard to emphasize how scared of
| computers and our superior ability with them our teachers were).
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| Hilarious as the submission title is, it should be updated to
| match the article's title, which is "Pimp My Beeb" =)
| DraughtyGap wrote:
| Very cool.
|
| Reminds me of mikeselectricstuff monster beeb
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la-sGpTpkxE
| gorgoiler wrote:
| My teachers at University were involved in the project. If you
| were one of that influential cohort who developed this machine,
| you were rewarded with your initials being included on the
| silicon die. Pretty rad.
|
| A major piece of Beeb history was also the manual. Without a
| doubt the most important book of my childhood.
| soneil wrote:
| > It's amazing how quickly a simple idea can get out of hand
|
| No kidding!
| Malic wrote:
| That statement is somewhat analogous to what is said about
| software development (in the tone of JFK's "moonshot" voice),
| "...we do things things not because they are easy but because
| we thought they would be easy..." :)
| HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
| Very nice!
|
| Great way to make a Beeb more practical to use as well as give it
| some drip!
|
| Now, if you could add USB storage and an HDMI adapter ...
| richm44 wrote:
| You're looking for these:
|
| https://github.com/hoglet67/RGBtoHDMI - HDMI adaptor - works
| nicely with the beeb https://www.gotekemulator.com/ - Floppy
| emulator that lets it use USB storage
|
| There are similar addons that can use things like the 1 MHZ bus
| via SD cards too.
| HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
| Thanks... very tempting!
| saghul wrote:
| This is incredible. Not only the final result is breathtaking,
| but the intermediate projects you created to support it are
| awesome too! The duckyPad looks very nice too!
| b800h wrote:
| This is a lovely project, given that the original Beeb wasn't
| "damaged" per se. I have a few Beeb mainboards with unrecoverable
| cases, and this sort of thing might be a very good destination
| for one.
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(page generated 2022-10-06 23:00 UTC)