[HN Gopher] Penetration testing wireless keyboards
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       Penetration testing wireless keyboards
        
       Author : Breadmaker
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2022-10-07 16:21 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kth.diva-portal.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kth.diva-portal.org)
        
       | danhor wrote:
       | Unfortunately they only tested Logitechs unifying system, that's
       | known to be broken (mentioned in the paper).
       | 
       | That's one of the reasons Logitech is moving to Logi Bolt, which
       | is supposed to be very similar to BLE (but with a separate
       | receiver). I'd be really interested to know if it's also as
       | secure as BLE.
        
         | solarkraft wrote:
         | Do you know why, then, they went with their own, yet-another-
         | new protocol, instead of just using BLE?
         | 
         | One hint may be that on my Macbook my Logitech mouse appears to
         | have a higher latency (feeling more "spongy") when connected
         | via Bluetooth instead of via the dongle.
        
       | hericium wrote:
       | PDF: https://kth.diva-
       | portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1701492/FULLTEXT...
        
       | wongarsu wrote:
       | Summary of the results (page 137):                 Protocol
       | Sniffing   Injection       Plexgear   Yes        Yes       Rapoo
       | Yes        Yes       Logitech   No         Yes       Corsair
       | Yes        Yes       iiglo      Yes        Yes       Exibel
       | Yes        Yes       Razer      No         No
       | 
       | Choice quotes from Chapter 6 (Discussion):
       | 
       | The results show that 9 out of 10 keyboards have at least some
       | form of vulnerability. Out of all the keyboards, 8 of them were
       | shown to contain new previously unknown vulnerabilities that
       | could grant an attacker full control of the computer of the
       | keyboard. The severity of these vulnerabilities in combination
       | with how prevalent they are show that the usage of wireless
       | keyboards should in no way be used in any situation where
       | security, privacy, or integrity is of any concern whatsoever.
       | 
       | [...]
       | 
       | Out of all the keyboards, only one of them actually promised any
       | form of encryption as part of the marketing of the keyboard and
       | this is the Corsair K63 Wireless. The keyboard is marketed with
       | 128-bit AES encryption but as the results of the penetration test
       | show, this is not the case. The keyboard's only obfuscation of
       | the wireless transmission is a simple XOR of the payload with a
       | static key that can potentially be reverse engineered
       | automatically with some very simple calculations.
       | 
       | [...]
       | 
       | Razer BlackWidow V3 Pro was the only keyboard not shown to
       | contain any vulnerability. As a result of this, it is deemed the
       | most secure of the targeted keyboards but it could still be
       | vulnerable to some unidentified vulnerability that requires more
       | time and resources compared to the rest of the keyboards
        
       | pushedx wrote:
       | kth is a great name for a university that teaches data science
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Seems it's a bit older than the concept of "data science"
         | (founded 1827, 195 years ago) and also just happens to _also_
         | teach data science.
        
       | adamfarhadi wrote:
       | I didn't expect to see a masters thesis from KTH on HN. I
       | actually took a course with Roberto, one of the supervisors of
       | this thesis, while I studied there. Small world.
        
         | buildbot wrote:
         | KTH is pretty well known internationally!
        
       | stoplying1 wrote:
       | Answered my own question, so sharing it. I wanted to know if the
       | Sculpt Ergo was vulnerable. (Seems not). (Also, this has been
       | ~known since at least ~2016)>
       | http://xahlee.info/kbd/Microsoft_wireless_keyboard_key_sniff...
        
       | Tsiklon wrote:
       | I see that they discuss Logitech's protocol, does this cover
       | "Bolt" devices? or is it only their "unifying receiver"?
        
         | sphars wrote:
         | In their testing they tested the Logitech MK270, which is a
         | mouse and keyboard combo. It uses the Unifying Reciver.
        
       | saulrh wrote:
       | And this is why the Google security folks don't let employees use
       | wireless keyboards unless they're bluetooth, and above a certain
       | bluetooth protocol version at that. Not that this analysis at any
       | time conducted attacks on the bluetooth protocols - every single
       | one of these keyboards had a secondary 2.4GHz dongle and just
       | happily transmitted everything over that. I'd have liked to know
       | whether they're trying to transmit to that dongle all the time or
       | whether it turns off when the bluetooth connects!
        
       | solarkraft wrote:
       | I got a Rapoo keyboard for free. Since I consider it a no-name
       | brand I'm not at all surprised that it turns out to be insecure
       | (perfectly matches my expectations), I'm rather surprised that
       | the author even audited them and that they even _attempted_ to
       | secure the communication a little bit.
       | 
       | So my intuition that generic "2.4GHz" communication is insecure
       | has mostly been proven right. Now what about Bluetooth keyboards?
       | Can they be considered secure?
        
         | hoppla wrote:
         | From my understanding, Bluetooth is vulnerable in the pairing
         | process, but secure after that.
        
       | mtreis86 wrote:
       | I am disappointed that QMK isn't included in the analysis.
        
         | dfc wrote:
         | It's a review of wireless keyboard communication protocols. I
         | do not follow QMK development that closely. Have they
         | implemented their own wireless protocol?
        
         | Okkef wrote:
         | QMK is not wireless. There is ZMK, but that's bluetooth and
         | should be safe.
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | Is there really any compelling use-case for a wireless keyboard
       | outside of those few scenarios where it needs to be very mobile?
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Don't ask my why (because I certainly don't agree personally)
         | but most people I know prefer wireless anything if they can,
         | because they can't stand cables.
         | 
         | But then I have a 32 channel mixer with cables everywhere in my
         | office, so not the most unbiased cable-opinionator directly.
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | People like the way it looks.
         | 
         | Me, I like a wireless mouse, but a wired keyboard.
        
         | alar44 wrote:
         | Managers think it looks nice.
        
       | kccqzy wrote:
       | So what are the choices for secure wireless keyboards? The only
       | one I know of is the Apple Magic Keyboard with Lightning port,
       | which uses Bluetooth (BLE rather than the classic one) and not
       | some random home-baked protocol over 2.4GHz. It also sidesteps
       | the vulnerable pairing step by asking you to plug in to pair.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-08 23:00 UTC)