[HN Gopher] Protect your privacy and your phone number with Fire...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Protect your privacy and your phone number with Firefox Relay
        
       Author : mozillamaxx
       Score  : 110 points
       Date   : 2022-10-11 16:05 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.mozilla.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.mozilla.org)
        
       | jacooper wrote:
       | Call me when you remove Ganalytics from such "privacy focused
       | service" (1)
       | 
       | Will stick with Simplelogin.io, which is included for free with
       | Proton Unlimited.
       | 
       | 1: https://github.com/mozilla/fx-private-relay/issues/1639
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | petarb wrote:
       | I can't wait for Apple to add this to iCloud
        
       | darkarmani wrote:
       | Isn't this Google Voice which was once Grand Central (12 years
       | ago)?
       | 
       | Forward your phone number to a different number through gvoice.
       | For email, add a '+' symbol to your email address and filter them
       | out if they get abusive.
        
         | SadTrombone wrote:
         | > For email, add a '+' symbol to your email address and filter
         | them out if they get abusive.
         | 
         | It's still trivial to parse your real email address from this.
         | With Relay your real email address is completely obfuscated.
        
       | grammers wrote:
       | This looks nice. I'm currently using Tutanota and love it. Seems
       | like it would be possible to connect this with Firefox Relay,
       | digging into it a bit more!
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | Maybe this is a good place to ask: I'm a British expat living in
       | the USA, and for a while now I've wanted a service which provides
       | a British phone number, and forwards calls and texts to my US
       | number, while also allowing me to send texts and make calls
       | "from" the UK number if I want to.
       | 
       | It looks like I might be able to do this with Twilio, but I'm not
       | a developer, and quickly got frustrated trying to build what I
       | wanted.
       | 
       | Is there a service that will do this for me at a reasonable
       | price?
        
         | MatthewMcDonald wrote:
         | Check out MySudo. It doesn't _forward_ the calls and texts, but
         | you can have multiple numbers that you can call/text with from
         | the app.
        
       | faultable wrote:
       | only for certain regions, as always.
        
       | imagetic wrote:
       | I like what Mozilla has been doing with their services, but they
       | have built a very confusing business model of many micro services
       | that I just don't see a ton of people signing up for as
       | independent subscriptions.
       | 
       | Why not bundle them all as one membership? Pocket, Mozilla VPN,
       | Relay, Monitor, and whatever services they can scrape up premium
       | options and features for to give them value?
        
         | groovecoder wrote:
         | (Mozilla Privacy & Security ENGR) Stay tuned ... :)
        
           | politelemon wrote:
           | Since you're here looking, please could the relay custom
           | domain feature support custom domains? At the moment it
           | actually generates subdomains.
        
             | groovecoder wrote:
             | Yeah, "Bring your own domain" is a super cool feature idea.
             | We could even re-use Acme HTTP-01 or DNS-01 challenges to
             | verify the domain.
        
             | moxieta wrote:
             | i would like this too. i think you can do it with apple
             | email relay.
             | 
             | currently i have example.com as my email, which i use with
             | mailbox.org, would it be possible to keep using it with
             | mailbox.org and then for mozilla to allow it to be used for
             | email relays? e.g.
             | 
             | name@example.com goes to mailbox.org
             | 
             | 3859dhtog@example.com goes to firefox relay
             | 
             | (not currently ofc, but a future thing)
        
               | groovecoder wrote:
               | I assume this means you have an MX record at example.com
               | pointing to your/mailbox.org SMTP server? AIUI, a sending
               | MTA will look up the MX record for example.com by
               | preference order and will deliver emails to the first
               | server that accepts the connection.
               | 
               | So it may depend if you can configure your mailbox.org
               | account/server to reject connections from servers trying
               | to send mail to unknown addresses? Then the sending MTA
               | server might "fail over" to the Relay server instead?
        
           | ratata wrote:
           | Great to hear! One suggestion; I think it would be great to
           | have an integration with smartphones Contact apps. This way a
           | user can leverage autocomplete and do not disturb rules on
           | mobile.
        
             | groovecoder wrote:
             | Oh interesting. Do you mind filing an issue for what you
             | have in mind here?
             | 
             | https://github.com/mozilla/fx-private-relay/issues/new
             | 
             | FWIW, when you get a Relay number, we text you a contact
             | card for it, so you can save it into your phone's contacts
             | app.
        
         | bretbernhoft wrote:
         | This makes a lot of sense. But maybe it's the direction that
         | Mozilla is already headed in?
        
       | madamelic wrote:
       | If y'all are interested in something like this, let me know. I
       | wrote a service exactly like this [0] and it sort of flopped
       | because the marketing plan was bad and I struggled to crack my
       | (poorly chosen) target market of 'privacyfreaks'.
       | 
       | If you want to re-co-found with me on marketing / sales, hit me
       | up: maddie+hn[at]qnzl.co. I tried some pivots, sucked at
       | marketing it, I occasionally get asked about where it went.
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | If anyone wants to run their own instance using Twilio, I open-
       | sourced the basic structure of my previous service [1] so it
       | should be fairly plug-and-play to do this cheaper ($1 per number
       | + small usage fee) and for more numbers.
       | 
       | My caveat about this is some services will silently ignore you if
       | you try to use a virtual number. It's more useful for IRL where
       | you don't want to throw your real number around much.
       | 
       | [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18311146
       | 
       | [1]: https://github.com/qnzl/twilio-basic-server
        
         | onetimeusename wrote:
         | ya that's useful. I do like this service. I have noticed more
         | and more that people are asking for phone numbers for app
         | registration and even in person I have seen this. A phone
         | number to me is private and personal.
         | 
         | The firefox service is priced well but 75 texts and 50 minutes
         | of voice is fairly limited. The burner phone services that
         | exist are too sketchy and too expensive for my taste.
         | 
         | I don't like marketing or sales but if you could market
         | yourself as a privacy focused, Free/Libre solution that wasn't
         | a sketchy fly by night operation and offered more than a closed
         | source phone app I would subscribe.
         | 
         | Twilio itself seems to be oriented towards businesses and not
         | individuals which is why I did not sign up with them.
        
       | vmoore wrote:
       | > this feature is available in the U.S. and Canada
       | 
       | Bummer. Before reading this, I was so excited, since robocalls
       | and sketchy SMS messages with malware payloads have plagued my
       | phone for years, and now it's not available to me (I'm in the
       | EU).
        
       | moxieta wrote:
       | is this usa and canada only?
       | 
       | i can't see any option when i log on from the uk.
        
         | Vinnl wrote:
         | Unfortunately, at this time, yes:
         | 
         | > Currently, this feature is available in the U.S. and Canada.
         | As we roll out this feature, we will explore how we can expand
         | this offering to outbound calls and texts, as well as to other
         | regions.
         | 
         | (Edited to add:) And I feel your pain - I'm a Relay engineer in
         | the Netherlands, and I can't even use this myself... But
         | unfortunately, it's not easy to offer this elsewhere at a
         | reasonable price, so we're still figuring that out.
        
       | arealaccount wrote:
       | How is this different from google voice which is free?
        
         | lijogdfljk wrote:
         | Even if it was identical i'd be interested simply because it
         | isn't Google. I used to have Google Voice.
        
         | Hrundi wrote:
         | Google Voice is US & Canada only, I believe.
        
       | cmcconomy wrote:
       | This service seems interesting for people who are establishing
       | net new phone numbers, but for those of us who have existing
       | numbers they've been using, the barn door is already open. This
       | wouldn't get us off existing lists.
        
       | srhngpr wrote:
       | I think TextNow offers a better solution and I've been using it
       | to do this for quite some time and it doesn't require any kind of
       | forwarding. I can send/receive calls and messages directly from
       | within its app and recycle numbers at any time - all for free (ad
       | supported). Calls are of great quality too and it even includes
       | voicemail. If I really like a number and want to lock it (to also
       | receive 2FA codes), it's a yearly $7 fee. Works with area codes
       | in US and Canada.
       | 
       | I think there are other options like Fongo and probably a dozen
       | other similar services that already have been doing this for some
       | time. Not really seeing the value proposition of going with the
       | Mozilla option here. Am I missing something?
        
       | hguant wrote:
       | I'd be more for this if Mozilla didn't have a habit of sneaking
       | in actively privacy hostile "updates" and enabling them by
       | default.
        
       | rodolphoarruda wrote:
       | We need this service available in Brazil like... yesterday.
       | Robocalls are reaching unbearable levels.
        
         | kroltan wrote:
         | Yes, recently I was on a spree, receiving roughly 40 calls a
         | day, I had to set my phone to not accept calls outside
         | contacts, but then what is even the point of having a phone
         | number at all.
        
         | dividuum wrote:
         | Wouldn't that just increase the number of calls, now that you
         | can receive them on multiple numbers?
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | In my experience: yes.
           | 
           | The only way to really prevent it is to allowlist specific
           | numbers you know will call the number and send "Number
           | disconnected" signals for the rest. Eventually, the number
           | gets quieter until it can be reached again.
           | 
           | The ideal setup would be to have a private number that you
           | never give out that denies anyone not on your allow then use
           | throwaway numbers you can turn on and off as you need them.
           | 
           | I used to have it where I would give numbers out then only
           | have them 'active' when I was expecting a call.
           | 
           | My original hypothesis was that the numbers were harvested,
           | my new one (and likely correct) is that numbers are randomly
           | dialed.
        
             | rodolphoarruda wrote:
             | > The only way to really prevent it is to allowlist
             | specific numbers you know will call the number and send
             | "Number disconnected" signals for the rest.
             | 
             | That's my tactics via an app.
        
       | rsync wrote:
       | This is my 2FA Mule. There are others like it, but this one is
       | mine:
       | 
       | https://kozubik.com/items/2famule/
        
       | janalsncm wrote:
       | It would be great if someone could package several virtual
       | services into one app. Virtual cc number, virtual email address,
       | virtual phone number all with one click. That way I can sign up
       | for some in-store membership with working info, get the discount,
       | and never worry about my info being compromised.
        
         | auslegung wrote:
         | I use Fastmail for what they call Masked Email, and Privacy.com
         | for unique debit cards for shopping online. They both integrate
         | with 1Password. So when I sign up for a new account, 1Password
         | generates a Masked Email, a random password, and a unique debit
         | card, and saves it all, and I LOVE IT!
         | 
         | Fastmail referral url: https://ref.fm/u26310488
         | 
         | Privacy.com referral url: https://privacy.com/join/JCPFN
        
       | tailspin2019 wrote:
       | This is cool. I've recently been thinking about getting a
       | "burner" number for sharing outside my immediate circle.
       | 
       | Same for email - the idea would be to have a phone/email for
       | public consumption and then a separate address and number for my
       | inner circle of family/friends.
        
         | nicholasjarnold wrote:
         | Same. Though for email there are good services like Fastmail
         | (and likely many others) which already offer this and other
         | benefits for a nominal subscription fee.
         | 
         | I haven't implemented this idea yet, but what stops us from
         | just buying Twilio credits, getting a number through them and
         | then writing a bit of glue code to their API to pull down SMS
         | messages (for things like 2-factor codes, etc) and route them
         | wherever we find personally convenient? Maybe Twilio is also
         | selling our customer data paired with these numbers to data
         | brokers, though, IDK. It's just a fleeting idea I've had.
        
           | tailspin2019 wrote:
           | > what stops us from just buying Twilio credits, getting a
           | number through them
           | 
           | I was considering exactly this, or potentially getting a
           | second mobile number via eSIM on my phone (which feels a bit
           | more "permanent" but that might be delusion...)
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | Here you go: https://github.com/qnzl/twilio-basic-server
           | 
           | Go wild. Gets you like 90% of the way there.
        
             | jacooper wrote:
             | License please!
        
             | nicholasjarnold wrote:
             | Thank you! I'm going to check this out. A question about a
             | comment you made elsewhere herein:
             | 
             | > My caveat about this is some services will silently
             | ignore you if you try to use a virtual number. It's more
             | useful for IRL where you don't want to throw your real
             | number around much.
             | 
             | How, specifically, do other services detect this? Is it
             | like with IP address space where it's possible to determine
             | things like "this C block belongs to Entity X, Inc"? Are
             | you aware of mechanisms to avoid this detection/blocking
             | that don't require using a "real" number.
        
               | madamelic wrote:
               | > How, specifically, do other services detect this?
               | 
               | I don't actually know specifically. I assume there are
               | two different ways:
               | 
               | - The service is using Verify / Authy, which is owned by
               | Twilio so likely Twilio themselves discourage it
               | 
               | - Looking up the number either through Twilio or some
               | sort of central subscriber database. All virtual numbers
               | are described as virtual numbers.
               | 
               | > Are you aware of mechanisms to avoid this
               | detection/blocking that don't require using a "real"
               | number.
               | 
               | Definitely gets into ethically gray areas since that
               | would be super useful to nefarious people. I don't
               | actually know for sure. I know from the recent Blizzard
               | mobile 2FA controversy that this issue expands to also
               | prepaid phone numbers.
               | 
               | So I don't know of a definitive way to get around it
               | beyond using a postpaid number.
               | 
               | Somewhat related, near the end of my above mentioned
               | service, I had pivoted into trying to launch a "21st
               | century phone service" complete with SIM cards provided
               | by Twilio.
               | 
               | The issue? They were still considered virtual numbers. At
               | the time, in Twilio's defense, I was somewhat misusing
               | their service because their SIMs were intended for IoT
               | purposes not actual cellphone usage. That's all to say,
               | it's likely provider / subscriber level vs something you
               | can individually spoof.
        
               | blep_ wrote:
               | Twilio, at least, has an API specifically for looking up
               | the carrier of a phone number. (You can't do it based on
               | number ranges, because portability.)
        
         | srhngpr wrote:
         | Simple and free solutions exist for this exact purpose:
         | TextNow, Fongo, etc. See:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33169096
        
         | returnInfinity wrote:
         | If you put your real phone number in your Resume and share it
         | with a recruiter, consider your phone number public.
         | 
         | Also LinkedIn will give away your contact details.
         | 
         | Your Bank or any service important to you may get hacked and
         | your phone number leaked.
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | I feel like we have very different expectations of what
           | recruiters can and will do with personal information. I'm
           | from within the EU, you?
           | 
           | Not that they don't share your email to other persons working
           | for the same company (I've had some name I never heard of
           | from RecruitCorp email me seven years after I last talked to
           | someone from RecruitCorp), or I could imagine they keep their
           | contacts when moving into / out of self-employment, but
           | that's a far cry from public.
        
         | vineyardmike wrote:
         | Not worth it. I have a Google Voice number (free, easy, good
         | UX). Now it's a constant juggle of "which number did I give".
         | Especially since you presumably have already given away your
         | current number. Even if you go all-in on burner number, there's
         | a question of longevity and risk. Do you give it to government?
         | Do you give it to banks? Etc
        
           | tailspin2019 wrote:
           | Yeah, very good points. I hadn't thought of the "which number
           | did I give" complication.
        
             | kroltan wrote:
             | I do the same thing with e-mail addresses, and solve this
             | by storing it in my password manager.
             | 
             | Phone numbers don't quite have the same dynamic, but just
             | having the ability of throwing a given problematic number
             | away would already solve so much.
        
       | jaclaz wrote:
       | I don't understand the idea behind it.
       | 
       | Now:
       | 
       | 1) You give your real number to someone.
       | 
       | 2) Somehow your real number goes into a list used by robo-
       | callers.
       | 
       | 3) A robo-call arrives on your real number, disturbing your
       | peace.
       | 
       | After:
       | 
       | 0) You give Mozilla 3.99 or 4.99 US$/month
       | 
       | 1) You give your Mozilla number to someone.
       | 
       | 2) Somehow your Mozilla number goes into a list used by robo-
       | callers.
       | 
       | 3) A robo-call arrives on your Mozilla number, that promptly
       | relays it to your real number, disturbing your peace.
       | 
       | You cannot change your Mozilla number, so it is basically an
       | "alias" number, where is the advantage?
       | 
       | Stopping paying so that the number becomes invalid?
       | 
       | But then you won't be reachable anymore by the people you gave
       | that number to.
        
         | balderdash wrote:
         | Totally agree, this should be a telephone version of a spam
         | folder. I have a legacy google voice plan that I use for this,
         | but would be happy to pay a couple bucks a month to Mozilla for
         | a comparable service.
        
         | lalopalota wrote:
         | If you get a spam call / text, you can block that number from
         | calling / texting you again.
         | 
         | I can already do that on my phone, and it is kind of useless
         | due to caller-id spoofing that most robocallers use.
         | 
         | Also, probably wont work for services that require a phone
         | number but don't accept VOIP numbers.
         | 
         | I wish the article addressed these issues.
        
           | jaclaz wrote:
           | >If you get a spam call / text, you can block that number
           | from calling / texting you again.
           | 
           | >I can already do that on my phone, and it is kind of useless
           | due to caller-id spoofing that most robocallers use.
           | 
           | Yes, I cannot see in which way this "black-listing" on
           | Mozilla is different/better.
        
           | Zak wrote:
           | > _Also, probably wont work for services that require a phone
           | number but don 't accept VOIP numbers._
           | 
           | I'm running into an increasing number of these, and it's
           | annoying because I use Google Voice as my primary phone
           | number. Using VOIP is important for me because I travel
           | frequently between the US and EU.
           | 
           | Aside from being inconvenient for me, I take blocking VOIP as
           | a red flag that the service might want to misuse my phone
           | number.
        
         | smileysteve wrote:
         | I effectively did this with Google Voice back when.
         | 
         | I would give marketers my Google voice number, it had better
         | interface (and on cloud instead on device) contact management.
         | I could send non favorites to a voice identification prompt
         | (voiding all slow recordings or agents making multi calls that
         | have a pickup delay) and for the final small percentage voice
         | transcripts that I could determine if important.
         | 
         | Or for craigslist, I could forward calls to a phone for a short
         | period of time, then turn off forwarding.
        
           | UncleEntity wrote:
           | I still use google voice like that, give it out when I
           | absolutely have to give a phone number (because they verify
           | by text or whatever) but have the app set to silent.
           | 
           | Google does a really good job of filtering out the
           | telemarketing calls so the rare message is usually valid.
           | 
           | Pretty much the only time I have to open the app is this one
           | stupid company ( _cough_ Walmart _cough_ ) which insists on
           | doing 2FA via text every single time I want to check the
           | balance on my prepaid debit card.
        
         | neogodless wrote:
         | From the article
         | 
         | > If you find yourself receiving too many unwanted spam calls
         | or texts, you can easily turn it off for all phone numbers or
         | select the specific ones you want to block.
         | 
         | So it sounds like if your aliased phone number has issues, you
         | can block those specific ones. In theory, you can do that now
         | from your phone, for individual numbers, but it isn't applied
         | if you switch devices. So it's a very moderate improvement.
         | 
         | Additionally, your existing phone number is probably already
         | overwhelmingly accessible to robo-callers, i.e. the cat is
         | already out of the bag.
        
         | barbariangrunge wrote:
         | I think the idea is to give your real email and phone number to
         | real friends and family; then you use the relayed one with
         | online services who might sell or lose the data. Then you could
         | presumably ditch the related info after the spam gets to be too
         | much? Or maybe you just do it to be more anonymous?
         | 
         | It's like the concept of a "burner phone" I think
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | That's what I thought too but then I read about what is
           | actually offered:
           | 
           | > You only get one phone number mask at this time. Once you
           | choose your phone number mask, you cannot change it later.
           | 
           | That makes it impossible to use as a "burner" number.
        
           | jaclaz wrote:
           | But - originally - you give a number (be it real or Mozilla
           | or "burner") in order to be contacted by someone (and then
           | _somehow_ it was leaked to the robocallers).
           | 
           | The moment you change or abandon the number (be it Mozilla or
           | "burner") that someone won't be able to contact you anymore.
           | 
           | But if you keep it, with the burner at least that someone
           | will still be able to call you at the end of the month (when
           | the the robocallers will have already eaten the 50 minutes
           | allowed by Mozilla).
        
             | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
             | But if you can use a unique number per service, you now
             | know which company is selling your PII and you could
             | address that either by switching to a competitor or,
             | depending on the legal specifics, sue/expose them.
        
               | jaclaz wrote:
               | From what I understand it is not "unlimited" numbers,
               | just one, as said an "alias".
        
               | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
               | That's a shame, it wasn't entirely clear from the article
               | but I assumed it must be multiple numbers since it didn't
               | seem to me like it would be all that useful otherwise.
        
               | ridgered4 wrote:
               | Unfortunately this only gives you a single unchangeable
               | mask number.
        
             | im3w1l wrote:
             | It would kind of make sense if you could "open" the relay
             | when you need to 2fa, and then you close it again after.
             | With this usepattern you would only need one alias, that
             | would be closed 99.9% of the time.
        
           | zikduruqe wrote:
           | textnow.com is free and what I have been using for years.
        
         | janalsncm wrote:
         | That was my thought. Unless I can create multiple numbers and
         | disable them at will, this is quite flawed.
         | 
         | With a virtual cc number, I create a new number on demand for
         | each service I need, and disable it after I don't need it
         | anymore.
         | 
         | With virtual email addresses, I create a virtual address and
         | delete it after I don't need it anymore.
         | 
         | Unless there is a phone number analog, a single number is only
         | useful until that number is compromised. Which could be day 1.
        
         | nicholasjarnold wrote:
         | Maybe you use it as part of a multi-layered approach to
         | personal digital privacy.
         | 
         | Without having hired a lawyer to dissect the TOS and Privacy
         | Policy for Mozilla's new service here, I'm going to assume for
         | the sake of argument that they will not sell the data to
         | brokers. If that is true, then it's one more way to try and
         | keep your true PII out of circulation. For instance, maybe you
         | pair this with a high quality VPN offering, browser plugins or
         | whole-network based stuff like pi-hole/etc along with also
         | using aliased credit card numbers through services like
         | Privacy.com or other similar offerings. Then when you "sign up
         | for an account" or "make online purchase" you could use name
         | like John Smith, private/aliased email, etc etc... This just
         | puts distance between your activity and your true identity.
         | 
         | With all that setup you have at least _some_ chance of evading
         | a decent amount of the persistent and invasive tracking that is
         | beginning to be top of mind for many people.
        
           | madamelic wrote:
           | Service-unique email / username + service-unique credit card
           | is good enough for, I'd estimate, 95% of people.
           | 
           | You are trying to avoid wholesale scoops of info and
           | automated credential stuffing. If your threat model is people
           | specifically seeking out and targeting you: godspeed.
        
         | ridgered4 wrote:
         | Yeah, I'm a little confused on the use case for this. I guess I
         | could put all of the annoying services that demand a phone
         | number for totally-only-security purposes-trust-us into a
         | "bucket" number. It doesn't sound like it is a feature but I'd
         | prefer that calls and texts to that number just be outright
         | ignored unless I've turned the number on temporarily for
         | verification. But since they have started rejecting VOIP
         | numbers for verification, and now even prepaid phone numbers
         | (!) for verification I feel like this probably won't work for
         | that either.
         | 
         | I personally only use prepaid cards so a service that makes
         | them appear like post paid might be useful on its own though.
         | 
         | The fact that you only get one number and you can't change is
         | seems to blunt some of the utility. Ideally you'd want a
         | separate number for each service and to have them all turned
         | off, to block identifying you as the same user of different
         | services. Not quite as easy to do with finite numbers as with
         | email address suffixes.
         | 
         | I wonder if you could use this like 5sim or other shady text
         | verification services by just remaking a monthly account. I
         | suspect that is not the idea here and probably forbidden,
         | otherwise they'd let you change numbers.
        
         | Vinnl wrote:
         | (Relay engineer here.)
         | 
         | This is definitely just the first step; we've got lots of ideas
         | for additional protections we could add, and are monitoring
         | usage and feedback [1] to inform our roadmap.
         | 
         | What this first version gives you is a way to add a tier of
         | trust to your phone number: your Relay number for untrustworthy
         | partners, and your true phone number for important things. That
         | means that data leaks of untrustworthy services can no longer
         | be linked to the important ones through your phone number.
         | Additionally, if you receive a phishing call to your Relay
         | number, that's an extra red flag that it might not be who they
         | say it is.
         | 
         | But again, there is more to come, so stay tuned.
         | 
         | [1] See also
         | https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/firefox-relay-pho...
        
           | stuckonempty wrote:
           | What are the benefits of Firefox phone relay then versus a
           | free google voice number I use just for spam ("untrustworthy
           | partners")?
        
             | Vinnl wrote:
             | I'm not terribly familiar with Google Voice (it also isn't
             | available in my country...), but they look similar in terms
             | of functionality at this point in time. For me personally,
             | the primary reasons to go with Relay would be that I'm
             | already trying to move away from Google as much as possible
             | for privacy reasons, that I'm already using Relay for email
             | masking, and that Relay is explicitly focused on the
             | privacy use case and will keep evolving in that direction.
        
               | stuckonempty wrote:
               | I can relate to the privacy-focused goal of getting away
               | from google however Google Voice is free. Sadly I think
               | having a competing free Google product that accomplishes
               | most of the same things is going to hurt adoption of the
               | Firefox relay product (which is paid)
        
       | tjoff wrote:
       | > _Next, you will be prompted to verify your true phone number
       | where the calls and texts will be forwarded to via text message.
       | After verification, we will generate your phone number mask._
       | 
       | Doesn't feel necessary to me really. I've never ever been in the
       | need for an incoming call, just for sms. And I'd much rather have
       | them sent to an email rather than my actual phone too (and then I
       | wouldn't need to share my phone number with this service either).
       | That would be a real use-case for me. But paying a monthly
       | subscription for that twice a year sms isn't that great either.
       | 
       | I currently have a pre-paid sim and an old phone for this
       | usecase. It kind of sucks and I don't have access to it when I'm
       | not home (sure, there are ways to sync this but haven't felt a
       | big enough need for it yet).
        
       | crackercrews wrote:
       | > Each month you will receive up to 50 minutes for incoming calls
       | and 75 text messages. All phone number masking plans will include
       | unlimited email masking. The cost is $3.99 a month for an annual
       | plan or $4.99 a month for a monthly plan.
       | 
       | So you pay $4-5 per month and you're still limited? I was
       | expecting there would be some free amount and after that it's
       | paid.
       | 
       | Will this SMS work for account verification?
        
         | kylehotchkiss wrote:
         | Google Voice numbers are reported as landlines, there seems to
         | be some way to verify that a number is actually mobile. Very
         | likely that Mozilla's report as landline. Banks (capital one)
         | have definitely balked at my google voice number.
         | 
         | What these burner numbers are great for are rewards programs. I
         | sign up for every one I can with my GV number!
        
           | mdasen wrote:
           | When I look up my Google Voice number, it shows up as VoIP
           | (not quite landline) with the carrier being Grand Central -
           | SVR. It seems likely that Mozilla's service will similarly
           | show up as VoIP. Some places are filtering VoIP numbers from
           | their SMS verification schemes, but most places will let you
           | sign up for promotional texts from a VoIP number.
        
             | diebeforei485 wrote:
             | Where can you "look up" your number?
             | 
             | There was something recently around a game which was able
             | to detect if a user's phone number was on a prepaid or
             | postpaid plan. I had no idea carriers share this
             | information with others.
        
             | crackercrews wrote:
             | What about account verification for Twitter/etc.?
        
           | sitzkrieg wrote:
           | google voice numbers are identified as the voip number they
           | are (bandwidth dot com etc) and virtually nothing takes them
           | for identification
        
           | crackercrews wrote:
           | I'd be very interested to know if they work for SMS-only
           | applications. I guess it's only $5 to try and find out. If
           | anyone has tried, please report back!
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >Very likely that Mozilla's report as landline.
           | 
           | I doubt it. It looks like they're using twilio under the
           | hood, and those are most definitely detected as VOIP numbers.
        
       | ronnocoep wrote:
       | Craigslist used to have a free service similar to this called
       | 'Craigs Number'. Worked well and was free. Come on Mozilla, you
       | can do better.
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | Spam calls are not the reason it is bad to give your number out;
       | it isn't related to calls at all.
       | 
       | Your number is your permanent cross-app, cross-company tracking
       | identifier. It is a lookup key for your name, address, income
       | bracket, email, spam history, etc.
       | 
       | This is why so many apps require it during signup.
        
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