[HN Gopher] What makes a champagne vintage great? Ask a deep lea... ___________________________________________________________________ What makes a champagne vintage great? Ask a deep learning model Author : prostoalex Score : 29 points Date : 2022-10-09 23:11 UTC (2 days ago) (HTM) web link (www.wired.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.wired.com) | gewa wrote: | There's a recent startup which wanted to take taste prediction of | luxury drinks to the next level with ML: | | https://www.mpg.de/18773206/the-signature-of-taste | asciimike wrote: | Interesting article, I've got a few thoughts on this space. | | Endless West (https://endlesswest.com/) has a "molecular | whisky" (they aren't legally allowed to call it whisky because | it wasn't distilled from a certain mash, aged in oak for a | minimum number of years, etc. etc.) that's the same idea, minus | the machine learning (which probably isn't that helpful, IMO | [1]). More on the process in [2]. | | To my knowledge, it hasn't sold particularly well, and most | reviews (granted, likely biased by the origin of the spirit) | tend to say "it's fine, but it's not the same as 'real | whisky'." | | The issue with the "luxury spirits" market is that (to | paraphrase the Scotch distillery Bruichladdich), "terrior | matters". Like fine art, one's enjoyment of such a beverage | comes from both the tangible (taste, smell, bottle | presentation, etc.) and the intangible ("having good taste", | "buying a bottle of whisky older than you are"; generally | signaling value). Like most (all?) luxury goods, the tangible | costs account for a small percentage of the overall cost, with | the intangibles and associated signaling value. | | There's a reason that "The Macallan" which is marketed as such | costs significantly more than vs "the macallan" that's been | private labeled by Costco or Trader Joe's. Same juice, | different intangibles. | | All of this is to say that: | | - I think the technology is super cool and I want to see it | come to fruition | | - I don't think "luxury goods" is the right segment to target | because nobody buys a birkin bag to carry their laptop to work | - Create a novelty for mass affluent consumers; not super high | margin but make up for it in volume (what Glyph was attempting) | - Target a niche consumer group who cares about a different | signaling metric, e.g. eco conscious consumers who want the | same "end resuly" but are unhappy with traditional processes | (which is what Endless West seems to be doing with e.g. [3]) | | [1]: Cognitive Cooking with Chef Watson | (https://ice.edu/partner-with-ice/IBM) is a great cookbook | because chefs fed IBM Watson a bunch of recipes and then asked | it to create new recipes, which it did, with some _very_ wacky | results that chefs then tweaked. Definitely possible to create | new/unique/interesting things, but I think it's hard to get | people to buy into the end result, especially if the majority | of folks would initially reject it as disgusting/too weird. | | [2]: https://fortune.com/2019/05/25/endless-west-glyph- | engineered... | | [3]: https://shop.endlesswest.com/kazoku.html | jl6 wrote: | _Columbo: How can you tell a good wine from an average wine?_ | | _Frenchman: By, uh... the price._ | | -- Columbo S03E02, Any Old Port in a Storm | brockwhittaker wrote: | This is also true historically to some effect. The bordeaux | classification of 1855 (which remains in effect) was in large | part done on price. | pessimizer wrote: | They could replace all the wine/whisky/audiophile/cigar/marijuana | etc. aficionado writers with AI models and no one would notice. | [deleted] | searine wrote: | I am throughly convinced that the most you should ever spend on | Champagne is 50-80 dollars (ex a normal bottle of veuve | clicquot), and only in extra special circumstances go near the | 200 dollar price point. Anything above that is just paying for | style over substance. | | Specifically I taste tested several bottles based on an | increasing scale of rarity and price. This included a 200 dollar | bottle of dom, a 200 dollar bottle of La Grande Dame, and a one | of a kind bottle of Dom stored properly in my friends basement | since 1988 (a supposedly good vintage). | | I have no skin in the wine game. I just don't like getting | tricked by the luxury business. 50-80 is the sweet spot of | quality and price, with diminishing returns in quality at the 200 | price point Once you get above the top recent vintages, you are | just paying for exclusivity not the product. | samwillis wrote: | I'm personally convinced the most you should spend on a bottle | of Champaign is PS10-15 on a bottle of Cremant De Bordeaux | rather than Champaign. There will always be occasions when a | bottle of Champaign is called for, but you likely have one that | someone gave you as gift for that. | | Most Cremant is as good as or better than Champaign at 2-3x the | price. | | We are particularly fond of this one: | https://www.ocado.com/products/m-s-cremant-de-bordeaux-blanc... | brockwhittaker wrote: | I haven't heard much from Bordeaux on cremants, but i can | vouch for burgundy and loire for cremants that perform as | well as many champagnes, for under $25. | mathematicaster wrote: | When it comes to bubbles, I believe the subjective dimensions | of personal taste and disposable income are by far the largest | determinants of what any one person "should ever" do. | pimeys wrote: | I usually go with the small unknown vineyards. I've had a bunch | of great bottles of champagne for 25-30 euros, always from | smaller brands. The famous ones cost too much and are quite | often not as good even... | WastingMyTime89 wrote: | As a French who grew not far from Champagne, I'm actually | convinced the most you should spend on a bottle of Champagne is | exactly 0 dollar. At an equivalent price point, you will find | plenty of better sparkling wines all around. Buying Champagne | really is buying the brand. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-10-12 23:00 UTC)