[HN Gopher] Old Elbe Tunnel ___________________________________________________________________ Old Elbe Tunnel Author : Tomte Score : 114 points Date : 2022-10-12 10:46 UTC (1 days ago) (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org) (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org) | rongopo wrote: | Is the elevator for cars free? Why? | neuronic wrote: | While it has low capacity and was "replaced" with other ways to | cross the Elbe, it still helps ease traffic across the river, | other roads and bridges are often very packed or even blocked | (often WW2 bomb defusals). I have lived both in NYC and in | Hamburg and while the scale in Hamburg is way smaller, the type | of traffic is kinda similar. Btw, isn't the Holland tunnel from | NJ to Manhattan also free? | | Also, we generally don't have tolls anywhere in Germany. If we | do I have a hard time thinking of examples. Our taxes are (too) | heavily invested in road infrastructure anyways and the tunnel | isn't privately owned. | narrowtux wrote: | Right now the "Alte Elbtunnel" is undergoing maintenance in one | of the two tunnels. Since as long as I've lived here, it hasn't | been open to cars, but the large elevators previously used for | cars are still serving bicyclists and pedestrians during the | daytime. They get quite full during rush hour. | | I use the tunnel 3-4 times per week! | Stamp01 wrote: | I love the boot and rats wall ornament. They deserve love and | recognition, too. | rongopo wrote: | As someone that worked in Hamburg's unique Chilehaus, and used a | few "paternoster elevators", I can say this city is full of small | surprises. | Avalaxy wrote: | nealabq wrote: | Because it's a beautiful piece of engineering, publicly | accessible and appreciated and thus maintained. | soperj wrote: | Because it's interesting. | mftb wrote: | The context is engineering. In the article it's referred to as | a "technical sensation" in it's time. | EdwardDiego wrote: | Was interesting to go through, the tiling is old school, and | they've preserved the old car lifts, they're positively Steam Age | looking steel girder contraptions. | danieldk wrote: | Of German tunnels I've always found the Zugspitzbahn impressive. | The last section is a tunnel through the highest mountain of | Germany and ends 300 meters below the summit. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Zugspitze_Railway | lexicality wrote: | I'm amazed they let cars in, it seems like the exhaust fumes | would be unpleasant and make the tunnel dirty. | JonathonW wrote: | Tom Scott did a video there a while back: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXuTz-5N1Aw | Calavar wrote: | Many of the older subway stations in the upper part of Manhattan | were built in the same time period and have a very similar | architectural style, down to the tiled walls and the ornate | molding, but they look absolutely decrepit. The tile is stained | with dirt and grime. The molding is broken in places. | | For most people who pass through one of these stations (which are | pretty busy), their general impression is that the stations look | cheap and dirty. You wouldn't really notice how lavish the | decorations in these stations must have been at opening unless | you were paying particular attention to your surroundings. It's | sad how little the US has invested in maintaining its public | transit infrastructure compared to other countries. | edavison1 wrote: | It's tempting to see it that way, but I read your comment and | see an unfair comparison between a small city and the largest | in the United States. The MTA is ugly (I love it) but let's not | kid ourselves, they spend a shitload of money maintaining | nearly 500 stations, probably the yearly cost of that tunnel | per day. | andrewshadura wrote: | Hamburg? A small city? Seriously? | rongopo wrote: | For "true Hamburguers" is indeed very small: North of the | Elbe, West of the Alster. | lispm wrote: | The renovation of the Elbtunnel is still ongoing until ca. 2026 | and will then in sum have cost around 114 million Euro. | Arrath wrote: | The (at least the older original) stations of the Moscow metro | are likewise individual works of art. The pure plain | utilitarianism of modern stations in NYC or the London | Underground are sterile and boring in comparison. | lmm wrote: | I don't think "pure plain utilitarianism" is a fair | description of the London underground as a whole. Even the | Victoria Line made a point of doing a unique mosaic for each | station; the Jubilee Line extension has a distinctive | artistic style (which a lot of people hate, but you can't say | they didn't try). Crossrail has put an even stronger emphasis | on design. | Arrath wrote: | Yeah it may be an overgeneralization, but from a recent | trip nothing about the stations I visited particularly | sticks out in my memory beyond concrete and plain tile. | jguimont wrote: | Montreal has different architecture and design for each metro | stop https://www.mtlblog.com/montreal/montreal-metro- | architecture... | Arrath wrote: | I love it! | NeoTar wrote: | Whilst I wouldn't call Berlin's UBahn stations works of art, | they are often distinct and make travelling the network its | own pleasure. | xhrpost wrote: | > It's sad how little the US has invested in maintaining its | public transit infrastructure compared to other countries. | | I'm on the fence about this, on average across the US, I'd | agree. But where we do have decent transit, we seem to spend a | lot. The NY MTA will spend $18B[1] in total in 2022, more than | 6x the amount the state spends on all state roads in NY for | 2018[2]. Despite this amount of money being spent, we have the | general problems that you mention above, plus the fact that any | expansion is prohibitively expensive. I just have to wonder, | even if a lot more money were spent, would we actually see | proportional improvements? | | [1] | https://www.osc.state.ny.us/files/reports/osdc/pdf/report-10... | | [2] https://cbcny.org/research/building-sound-fiscal-future- | new-... | mbiondi wrote: | A lot of the MTA's budget is spent on interest on their debt | (about $4 Billion / year). Page 23 of your report shows they | currently have about $45 Billion in outstanding bonds. A | cursory view seems to show about $6 Billion is to cover | capital projects, which makes one wonder what the other 39 | Billion was issued for. | crote wrote: | I do not live in NYC, so _please_ correct me if I am wrong, | but both can be true at the same time. | | Looking specifically at the NYC subway, they are both over- | spending and under-spending at the same time. In a nice | example of the Boots Theory[0], they are spending money by | the boatloads to keep the dating infrastructure working. A | lot of it dates back to the 1930s, and it is impossible to | get replacement parts. A newer system would be far easier and | cheaper to maintain - but in the short term replacing it | would be an enormous cost. | | This is made even worse by it running 24/7. Without a | maintenance window, doing proper preventative maintenance is | pretty much impossible. | | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory | mbiondi wrote: | I never heard of the Boots Theory before now, but I don't | think it applies to the MTA. They buy the top of the line. | And will build their own parts if it doesn't exist. It's | not unusual for subway cars to run for millions of miles | and last decades. The R32's were deployed in the 1930's and | lasted until the early 2000's [0]. | | I am a New Yorker, and have seen the MTA do maintenance at | night or over a weekend. Or, if things are desperate, | during the day. | | I don't know the real issues either, but always assumed | politics played a big part. | | [0] -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R32_(New_York_City_Sub | way_car) | lmm wrote: | > They buy the top of the line. And will build their own | parts if it doesn't exist. It's not unusual for subway | cars to run for millions of miles and last decades. The | R32's were deployed in the 1930's and lasted until the | early 2000's [0]. | | That doesn't seem to contradict th idea that they've | spent far more money maintaining obsolete equipment when | buying new would be cheaper overall. (Not really "boots | theory" though). | [deleted] | bradhe wrote: | Funny, I just walked through this tunnel last week. | Elte wrote: | Biked through the tunnel, then ran over the Kohlbrandbrucke the | one time a year they let you do that. The fun one can have | pointlessly crossing a river (:. | rongopo wrote: | There is no pointless crossing of a river. It might be a | subconsciously relevant event. | graderjs wrote: | I've been there. It's very f*** cool. It's sort of like the old | underground metro subway stations in Sydney australia. You know | the old circular key line with Martin place museum Hyde Park | these type of stations on them? I can't remember all the names | now but they have that old tiling and the long pedestrian tunnels | and I mean just a fantastic kind of vibe to go into them and this | tunnel is like that but it goes under the water. | | I think there might be a similar tunnel in Antwerp, Belgium | (great city, awesome Jewish bakeries) I seem to recall having | transited such a place in that region too. | padraigcoogan wrote: | The remaining Sydney subway stations with original tiling and | fittings are two beneath Hyde Park: St James, | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HauHHw7zkoM, and Museum, | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80MDwect8Y4 | tchvil wrote: | This is the tunnel you may have seen: | https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2019/03/13/the-scheldt-tu... | | The wooden escalator is impressive still working after so many | years. | neuronic wrote: | Glad you enjoyed it this much. I live in Hamburg and haven't | gone there as often as one probably should. It's a really | fascinating place. | chappi42 wrote: | In Hamburg one has to go to the Wunderland* (everything else | is secondary;)) | | *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-AvGfN4bJ0 ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-10-13 23:00 UTC)