[HN Gopher] How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. ot...
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How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other
departments?
Author : leeny
Score : 121 points
Date : 2022-10-13 15:49 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.interviewing.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.interviewing.io)
| victor9000 wrote:
| I just went through a round of interviews and received offers
| from large, small, and medium sized companies. So the
| opportunities are still there if you can navigate the interview
| gauntlet.
| andirk wrote:
| I tell people that you are looking for _one_ position, not
| 10,000. There will always be a position somewhere that fits
| your needs. Its more difficult in down times to a degree. And
| if your industry is in a huge slump, find a new industry!
| There's more work to do than can ever be done.
| spacemadness wrote:
| "interviewing.io is both a mock interview platform and an eng
| hiring marketplace (engineers use us for technical interview
| practice, and top performers get fast-tracked at companies)"
|
| The source for this article has some strong incentives in the
| area of perceptions of increased competitiveness.
| leeny wrote:
| Author here. For what it's worth, I added the conclusion pretty
| late in the game. When I first ran the data, it looked like
| engineers were barely getting laid off (because of engineers
| not opting in to layoff lists as much as others). And the graph
| about the bar going up came in as a zero hour suggestion from
| someone who proofread the piece.
|
| Believe me, I'd be much happier if eng hiring were back in full
| swing. With all the freezes and layoffs, we've taken a bigger
| hit than we can hope to gain back by shilling interview
| practice.
| [deleted]
| avrionov wrote:
| The article doesn't answer the question. The list is also missing
| 2 of the big names which announced layoffs Oracle and Citrix. For
| more detailed and depressing discussion about layoffs check [1].
|
| [1] https://www.thelayoff.com/
| alephnerd wrote:
| Well, I wouldn't neccessarily treat the Citrix layoff as
| directly macroeconomic related, as they are going through an
| M&A event right now with TIBCO to make the "Cloud Software
| Group" [0][1], and it's ex-Broadcom leadership (who are very
| dollar/efficiency oriented).
|
| [0] - https://www.cloud.com/news/press-release.html
|
| [1] - https://www.cloud.com/
| thwayunion wrote:
| The market is still extremely tight for good talent in-between
| Senior and Junior.
| lumost wrote:
| So the Senior market is saturated? this is an early sign
| companies are getting nervous about bloat. After the '08
| recession many companies rushed to ditch Architect titles as
| they found that the role did not serve the interests of their
| productive engineers or the companies higher ups. Companies
| that had gone heavy on such talent might find themselves stuck.
|
| I recall seeing talks on "Staff Engineer" and thinking that
| this was going to be the next version of "Architect". Engineers
| who's primary job is to write code often dislike working with
| people in such roles.
| thwayunion wrote:
| _> So the Senior market is saturated?_
|
| I am not sure I would say saturated, but yeah, the Sr. SWE
| market is definitely not as tight as it was a year ago for
| most role types. However, it does depend on qualifications
| and company type. Seniors for R&D positions (so, PhD with 5+
| years in product-focused R&D) are still basically impossible
| to hire. Friends tell me that hiring seniors at mid-pay or
| low-pay companies is still pretty hard.
|
| The more important dichotomy is between mid-career/late-
| career and junior. The entry level positions are _absolutely
| saturated_. CS programs are definitely over-producing at this
| point.
| no_wizard wrote:
| is it CS programs or is it the bootcamps?
|
| I've seen the bootcamp crowd more often than not in these
| situations coming through, not many with actual 4 year CS
| degrees, though I've seen many of those too, but not nearly
| as much, by an order of magnitude.
|
| EDIT: could be a difference in what part of the industry we
| work in too. I do more frontend / "design engineer" work.
| oceanplexian wrote:
| CS programs are overproducing but they are overproducing
| the wrong skills. Most don't have the cloud skillset or
| experience with IaC, they are never thought how to solve
| problems within distributed systems. And their idea of
| systems design is a Flask app talking to a MySQL database
| on a laptop.
|
| It's not the students fault, but the education system is
| constantly behind the times, and sometimes even teach bad
| engineering patterns that cause problems and create
| technical debt.
| mywittyname wrote:
| A lot of development jobs can be simplified into a web
| endpoint that hits a database. So that seems like a
| completely fair project to have students work on in an
| applied course.
|
| Also, universities do offer courses in cloud computing. I
| was helping our interns with their cloud computing
| courses back in like 2016, so it's not a recent addition
| either.
| monksy wrote:
| > It's not their fault, but the education system is
| constantly behind the times.
|
| Yes/no/maybe. The schools got pressured by the bootcamps
| that were teaching the "flask app talking to a mysql db"
| .. they simplified their classes and stop teaching some
| things. It sucks, the people who come out of that don't
| have the theory/flexiblity/skills coming out that you
| would expect before.
| noir_lord wrote:
| Might be true in the US, not what I'm seeing have seen in
| the UK.
|
| Here big companies are taking kids straight out of uni and
| boot camping them because decent juniors are hard to find.
| lostcolony wrote:
| How easy is it to find bad juniors? I think that may be
| relevant for determining how saturated the field is.
| themagician wrote:
| More and more senior engineers are non-coding or practically
| so. I see it everywhere. As industries have matured, people
| have matured into higher level management roles and there
| hasn't been enough people to replace them. There's still
| plenty of fresh blood, software engineering actually looks a
| lot like the labor shortages do in the rest of the market--
| there's a lack of people who actually want to do the work.
| Everyone wants that $150k starting comp. Everyone wants a
| $500k director or VP role. But there is a shortage in that
| $200-300K range for people who are actually going to put in
| hours either writing code that makes it into production, or
| managing junior coders and their codebases. I'm talking SV
| salaries here. The scale is different elsewhere, but the
| problem is the same.
| lumost wrote:
| Not for nothing, but that sounds a bit like a market peak
| if I've heard one. Why would the person actually doing the
| work settle for a mere 300k when the director/VP gets
| double without doing the hard work? there is a balance here
| - but it seems like a good time to lure engineers with
| _real_ equity compensation to early stage startups.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| Which industry has it different? I mean there are
| exceptions like sport teams but by and large this stuff
| happens everywhere else too.
| mapme wrote:
| Interesting, anecdotally at a faang adjacent company, I do
| not know of any Seniors who do not have code as their
| primary output. Even a large majority of staff actively
| code IME.
| outworlder wrote:
| > I recall seeing talks on "Staff Engineer" and thinking that
| this was going to be the next version of "Architect".
| Engineers who's primary job is to write code often dislike
| working with people in such roles.
|
| That depends. If they are actively involved and the
| architectural decisions are sound, it's fine.
|
| If they are "drive-by architects", showing up, dropping a
| bunch of useless boxes they read on some book, and then
| leaving before the consequences of their 'architecture' are
| known, you are right we don't like working with them.
|
| At many companies, however, staff engineers are still
| engineers.
| theteapot wrote:
| Drive by architects don't read books. They read AWS's
| latest product brochure and think "yes".
| dijit wrote:
| I think both exist, but you're right.
|
| The majority of Architects I've brushed against in the
| last decade have been exclusively an additional marketing
| force for AWS with very little ability to objectively
| reason from first principles or assist with knowledge of
| anything outside of the AWS ecosystem.
| qchris wrote:
| Totally genuine question as someone coming from a
| background in mechanical engineering, who now does a lot
| of software-y things: what do you consider to be "first
| principles" in computing? Are you talking about first
| principles in terms of project development processes (i.e
| how information systems evolve) or code (i.e. bits and
| bytes, where microservices might not be the answer
| because the network connections are guaranteed to have a
| fundamental latency that, along with the amount of data
| required, means you can't meet requirements because
| [..])?
| openfuture wrote:
| I think I can name an example, which is how I am
| approaching datalisp; https://sr.ht/~ilmu/tala.saman/ the
| first principles bit for my context refers to: fixing a
| standard encoding that is sufficient for the task,
| determining inputs and outputs of model, setting a
| general guideline for expressivity of model (space of
| conflict-free programs), sketching interaction modes and
| user interfaces.
|
| These are the first principles in question, now from
| there your architecture is mostly determined, you can
| fall back on known patterns and decades of research. The
| axioms are the architecture.
| JamesBarney wrote:
| Every architect i worked with read books.
|
| The bad ones took what they read as gospel and the good
| ones took what they read in context.
| spamizbad wrote:
| What makes a "Staff Engineer" is largely a product of an orgs
| engineering culture. And you may have multiple people with
| "staff engineer" as a job title that fulfill different roles
| to varying degrees.
|
| I've found those roles to be:
|
| * Technical Leadership (driving major technical initiatives)
|
| * Technical Contributor (shipping stuff, with technical
| mastery beyond what would normally be expected from senior
| engineer)
|
| * Architect (planning stuff)
|
| * Team Management (mentorship + taking load off an
| engineering manager's plate if the team is big)
|
| Biggest mistake I see orgs make when hiring staff engineers
| is hiring someone whose strength is in mentorship and
| technical contributors and decide their new role is
| architecture and driving major technical initiatives at a
| high level. Some are best "in the weeds" and others are
| better planners. Know their strengths!
| sarchertech wrote:
| Staff engineer is just title inflation for what used to be
| senior engineer. Senior engineers at most companies just
| means this isn't your first job right out of college.
| dominotw wrote:
| I have 15 yoe and have senior software engineer title so do
| people with 2 yrs experience.
|
| I might be doing same thing over and over. Time to make a
| radical change :/.
| thwayunion wrote:
| There's also nothing wrong with plateauing for a while or
| even topping out, especially if you are generally happy
| with life and career. There's pride to be had in being a
| good individual contributor; not everyone needs to make
| it to Senior Super Special Principal :)
| spacemadness wrote:
| I keep being told I shouldn't be writing code at my level
| and should be knee deep in design docs and estimations
| all day long. This is actually what happens but I would
| much prefer to be writing software and am wondering if I
| can even be happy in this career any longer. This
| industry has some real bizarre notions of career
| progression.
| monksy wrote:
| There are other organizations that are trying to deflate
| titles as well. (Demanding the work of a lead, staff, or
| principal in a Sr without the influence to do so)
| andsoitis wrote:
| What is the spread in compensation, scope of work, level
| of responsibility, etc.?
| spacemadness wrote:
| Depends on the company. The industry can't seem to agree on
| what these terms mean.
| yulaow wrote:
| Here in Europe layoffs are more uncommon but I am having a very
| hard time finding open positions compared to just 3 years ago (
| last time I was changing jobs ), and the situation is getting
| worse and worse each week that passes. And for juniors is already
| far worse: I very rarely see job openings targeted to them
| anymore. It seems like everything is frozen.
| dont__panic wrote:
| In the US, there's definitely less hiring going on, too. Seems
| more and more common to shut down a successful interview
| pipeline with the "hiring freeze" excuse.
| radicalbyte wrote:
| There is a large backlash happening against blockchain right
| now in Europe, from your profile I would assume that that is
| the problem.
| yulaow wrote:
| Actually it's the opposite.
|
| I am done with dapps and blockchain development and just
| looking for fullstack (preferring only backend when possible)
| typescript/golang positions.
|
| I am getting a good amount of recruiters contacting me for
| blockchain related positions but every single time I speak
| with them their projects are so ridiculously stupid I am
| flabbergasted that they got investors.
|
| "Normal web dev" recruiters? Just got 5 of them contacting me
| in the last 4 weeks and of those I contacted myself: most of
| them have ghosted me. Last time I was looking for a new job
| in 3 days I had like 30 recruiters already spamming my
| linkedin inmail
|
| Also I put myself in honeypot, talent.io and hired.com. Got
| like only one proposal... so thinking something was bad with
| my profile I contacted their "talent advisors" and each of
| them sort-of told me the profile was perfect but they were
| having an hard time getting job openings because of the
| "current market situation".
| illusiveman wrote:
| I used to have 2 requests a week on average on Hired. Now,
| my profile has expired twice without a single request.
|
| Definitely, something is wrong with that service. Guess
| fewer companies are using it.
|
| By contrast, it's odd the day I don't get a message on
| LinkedIn.
| jmknoll wrote:
| I've had good experiences with Hired in my current and
| previous job searches. While there are a couple of
| companies (the usual suspects) who use it to send out the
| same recruiter spam that they send elsewhere, I've mostly
| gotten targeted reach-outs for pretty solid roles. I'm
| actually starting a job next week that I found with them.
| LinkedIn, by comparison, is just a constant stream of
| unsolicited garbage.
| adam_arthur wrote:
| This is likely to be the recession that halts the rapid inflation
| in tech wages.
|
| Rising risk free rate has hit growth companies the hardest, and
| there are likely to be a large swath of layoffs right as we have
| tons of people bootcamping and switching into the industry.
|
| Supply and demand of labor in tech will enter balance for the
| first time since ~2010. The FFR is looking to have a reasonable
| chance to go to 5% at this point, so the pain isn't even close to
| being over
|
| Get used to not being special like pretty much every other
| industry
| dilyevsky wrote:
| Contrary view - this will sprout more startups that were
| previously starved for talent rest&vesting at faang&co and
| we'll see much tighter market in 2-3 years.
| adam_arthur wrote:
| It will definitely do that if FAANG comp compresses via lower
| equity issuances. The difference is startups generally can't
| compensate at the level that FAANGs do or did.
|
| And if discount rate stays higher, valuations will be much
| lower at the same revenue and growth rates than they had been
| in the past.
|
| Of course this also implies the value of the dollars you earn
| is greater via opportunity of higher yielding investments.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| > It will definitely do that if FAANG comp compresses via
| lower equity issuances.
|
| I think it will absolutely happen at least in short term.
| In fact in many cases already happened.
| chrischen wrote:
| Tech is pretty different in that its whole point is automation
| and reduction of redundancies. I would imagine over time there
| wouldn't be a need for a mediocre engineers as their jobs would
| just be done by code written one time by a superior engineer.
|
| We've seem this already happen to "mom and pop" web dev shops
| getting pushed out by the work of a handful of companies
| (Weebly, squarespace, Shopify).
| adam_arthur wrote:
| Yup, a single dev can build out a massive business via
| severless cloud components in what used to take a large army
| of engineers.
|
| It just so happens job growth has historically exceeded
| efficiency gains. The equilibrium point seems close from my
| perspective, especially if there's a shock of recession to
| hammer tech employment
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > This is likely to be the recession that halts the rapid
| inflation in tech wages.
|
| I think the transition to remote combined with the recession
| will put a damper on high tech salaries. I've already started
| seeing pressure from our executives to explore more hiring of
| remote workers to cut costs further.
| system16 wrote:
| > Articles like these drive engineers to speculate on Blind and
| on Reddit, in the internet equivalent of hushed whispers, about
| whether they're next.
|
| Bizarre to reference a Blind thread from 2019 discussing Uber
| layoffs to back up a claim that engineers are reading the
| previously linked articles in the future and speculating about
| "whether they're next."
| [deleted]
| leeny wrote:
| Author here. Good call, just fixed to a more generic link about
| layoffs on Blind. No shortage of recent conversations.
| redleggedfrog wrote:
| My company is not hiring developers at the moment, but there sure
| are some people who should be let go.
| theteapot wrote:
| > At some point in the last 2.5 years, you've probably visited
| layoffs.fyi.
|
| I have?
| [deleted]
| hitpointdrew wrote:
| Never even knew it existed until just now. I feel like am not
| in the minority. Weird that the author assumes this is some
| well known site.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| Its a very well known site
| theteapot wrote:
| Within your bubble.
| ggm wrote:
| They did say _probably_ and for the post hoc case which knows
| they didn 't it's hard to believe, but probably on balance,
| you're right: maybe they should have used maybe?
| walshie4 wrote:
| The fact that snap's web3 team being cut is one of the listed
| examples is pretty comical IMHO.
| jesuspiece wrote:
| yea like no shit the web3 fat got cut first lol. anyone with
| eyes could see through all the people selling shovels in a gold
| rush
| andirk wrote:
| They also cut their AR wing. Sounds like they're going back
| to their laurels: d** pics.
| brundolf wrote:
| Ah yes, durable blockchains, an obvious next step for the
| world's most famous ephemeral-messaging company
| wepple wrote:
| This is a flimsy PR piece for interviewing.io submitted by the
| founder.
|
| It worked, front page of HN is great for backlink value
| xwowsersx wrote:
| Just because you can surmise as to the obvious ways in which
| writing this post might generally serve the interests of the
| author or the company behind does not, in itself, establish
| that the piece is flimsy. Your comment, on the other hand,
| with its baseless assertion and borderline ad hominem IS
| flimsy. Be better.
| leeny wrote:
| Founder here. This piece took my team and I months to
| research and tag and write. We spent hours counting
| individual layoffs in spreadsheets and on LinkedIn and
| running and rerunning the numbers. And the conclusion wasn't
| even what I wanted. When I started writing, I really thought
| that the layoffs were overblown and weren't affecting
| engineers. That's not what's happening at all.
|
| Now, you're right, why do we put effort into pieces like
| this? It's to get some eyeballs on interviewing.io.
|
| But this piece is not flimsy, and I think it's not correct or
| fair to assume that just because something serves our
| business that it's of poor quality.
|
| Normally I wouldn't say anything, but the "flimsy" thing
| really got me.
| swader999 wrote:
| Ok, now I'm motivated to go read the article.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > The fact that snap's web3 team being cut is one of the listed
| examples is pretty comical IMHO.
|
| We're seeing a huge influx of applicants who are coming from
| failed web3/blockchain projects. It was very much a gold rush
| that attracted a lot of people looking to strike it rich. Now
| that the momentum has disappeared, the employees of those
| projects are all running for safety.
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| i feel like im on another planet when single digit growth is
| considered so bad. and this requirement for endless growth
| invariably destroys every product
| 01100011 wrote:
| We (large FANGish) are more or less in a hiring freeze but still
| grabbing a few new hires here and there. A friend just
| interviewed for SSE at AAPL and seemed to have the job only to be
| told they closed the req. I'm still getting lots of recruiter
| spam though so I think we're still fairly early in any sort of
| layoff cycle. The economy is still trucking. Despite many people
| trying to be first to declare it, we're not in a recession yet.
| All signs point to one next year though.
| no_wizard wrote:
| I'm seeing a massive uptick in recruiting for contract roles
| compared to a year ago though.
|
| A year ago (and even, 3-4 months ago) it was all full time
| positions nearly exclusively, now it's all _heavily_ weighted
| toward contract
|
| Lots of "18+ month" or "long term" contract verbiage, but
| contract none the less.
|
| Definitely a shift.
|
| Seeing more contract to hire too
| supernovae wrote:
| I've always seen a lot of those, i think the SNR just favors
| them for now with general slow down in direct hires.
| humanwhosits wrote:
| I guess hiring for contracts routes around arbitrary
| headcount limits.
| kingnothing wrote:
| The US is in a recession. It has seen two quarters of negative
| economic growth.
| RC_ITR wrote:
| I feel like a broken record but, the 'Two quarters' rule is
| an unofficial metric that does a bad job of representing
| recessions when you back-test it (no recessions from
| 1992-2008 in that case).
|
| In the US, a recession is defined by NBER after the fact.
| danuker wrote:
| Then the "two quarters" rule is stricter. We have fulfilled
| a stricter criterion for a recession.
|
| Whether the NBER contradicts us is irrelevant. Less value
| is going around in the economy.
| mywittyname wrote:
| I mean, if you're going to stick to the two-consecutive
| quarters definition, then you would be saying that we
| _were_ in a recession, and are now out of one. Third
| quarter GDP estimates stand at 1.9% growth.
| zeroonetwothree wrote:
| GDPNow has it at 2.9% even
| rjcjvyd77 wrote:
| sieabahlpark wrote:
| RC_ITR wrote:
| Ok, let's play your game. How much of the first quarter
| decline was due to the ports clearing and imports rising?
|
| Here, I'll give you a hint (More than 100%):
| https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=UOxC
|
| Do you think that's a real recession indicator?
|
| EDIT: Said differently, if our imports were at 4Q:21
| levels, we'd have 0 quarters of decline. So is this the
| first import-driven recession? Because no other
| recessions have been like this.
| RivieraKid wrote:
| No, it's not stricter. It's a rule of thumb, an
| approximation.
| nostromo wrote:
| > In the US, a recession is defined by NBER after the fact.
|
| This isn't true. There is no "official" declaration of
| recessions in the US. NBER is referenced by some federal
| officials, but it's just one signal of many.
|
| Bar far, the most common definition used worldwide is two
| quarters of negative growth -- and by that definition we're
| already in a recession.
|
| I think a lot of folks don't even know that NBER isn't a
| government organization. It's a private non-profit with a
| bunch of self-appointed academics that don't even publicly
| disclose their meeting notes or their criteria for what a
| recession is. People treat them like the Oracle of Delphi
| and it's very misplaced.
| beebmam wrote:
| This is a point of contention among economists, as the
| current economic conditions are quite unlike most others
| seen. US/China decoupling is causing massive shocks across
| the world.
|
| The US Federal Reserve is responding to these economic
| conditions far stronger than any other central bank, and the
| US dollar has grown in strength accordingly. Weakening the
| labor market is one of the goals. That will mean lots of
| layoffs, in exchange for a reduction in inflation (and
| domestic purchasing power).
| the_lonely_road wrote:
| This is a pointless battle. There is a US election this year
| so there is zero chance a recession will be admitted until
| mid November regardless of facts on the ground.
| colinmhayes wrote:
| US gov uses a non-partisan third party think tank to
| officially declare recessions.
| kyleblarson wrote:
| If you believe there exists a "non partisan third party
| think tank" I have a bridge to sell you in Arizona.
| Jensson wrote:
| > a non-partisan third party think tank
|
| How can such a thing possibly be non-partisan? The people
| running surely vote in the elections and thus care about
| the outcome, I don't see how they couldn't be partisan
| when their statements can have huge effects on the
| outcome.
| mywittyname wrote:
| Non-partisan usually means people aren't directly
| influenced by political leadership. Pelosi has no
| recourse if NBER doesn't make the decision that she
| wants, whereas, she can punish/reward the junior
| Congresspeople in her party by withholding seats or
| funding for election campaigns. Thus, NBER is non-
| partisan while Democratic Congresspeople are partisan.
|
| I would hope that every member of NBER votes. It's their
| civic duty.
| Jensson wrote:
| In that case why wouldn't they try to influence the
| election? It depends on what kind of people sit there,
| but most academics favor democrats. So I don't see how
| that statement gives us a good reason to believe that
| they aren't taking one side here.
| mywittyname wrote:
| Data for Q3 will be released on Oct 27 (before the
| election). And current estimates for ~2.0% growth. Thus,
| the country will technically be "out of a recession" by
| election time.
|
| I wonder if these people claiming that we are "technically
| in a recession" will suddenly start saying that economy has
| recovered come Oct 28.
| bloppe wrote:
| Unemployment is at a historic low, which is not typical of a
| recession.
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| The economy is shrinking because boomers are retiring at a
| rate faster than we can fill jobs. The Boomer economists at
| the Fed have responded by raising interest rates so that
| Xers, Millennials, and Zoomers don't get uppity and ask for
| more money.
| ls65536 wrote:
| > The Boomer economists at the Fed have responded by
| raising interest rates so that Xers, Millennials, and
| Zoomers don't get uppity and ask for more money.
|
| Maybe so, but you might want to also consider at the same
| time what's happening to all that Boomer wealth mostly
| tied up in retirement accounts (stocks and bonds) and in
| the real estate that they own while these interest rates
| rise. Sure, the effects here aren't equally distributed
| (neither generationally nor by asset class), but hardly
| anybody is getting away unscathed.
| 01100011 wrote:
| I believe it's typical before a recession though :D
| smeagull wrote:
| We have horrible ways of measuring economic growth. I'll be
| worried when it starts affecting things in the real world.
| mkl95 wrote:
| My employer has literally stopped hiring engineers and product
| roles. Sales people are still being hired in droves though.
| marcyb5st wrote:
| Aren't sales people "cheap" as their salary is negligible
| compared to sales bonuses if and only if they exceed their
| sales quota?
| jedberg wrote:
| Not usually. Oftentimes sales people have pretty high base
| pay. Last time I worked somewhere with a sales force, their
| base was the same as the engineers with the same level of
| experience, and then they got commission on top of that.
| mkl95 wrote:
| I don't know. My bosses claim good engineers are a nightmare
| to find. Cash is surely not the bottleneck.
| ge96 wrote:
| Small company $40-50B hiring freeze (for everyone not just eng)
| for a month to assess.
| smeagull wrote:
| We've seen a few people leave for other jobs, and are still
| hiring. Still getting offers from recruiters.
|
| I haven't seen this play out in the real world yet beyond news
| stories.
| nobodyandproud wrote:
| My firm is still playing the long game, so we've been actively
| hiring talent.
|
| Check back if/when a recession is in full swing.
| sremani wrote:
| Everyone plays a long game until the cost of debt and debt
| servicing comes home. There are just too many Zombie Unicorns,
| it is matter of time. If your company is not profitable
| consider yourself jobless 6 months from now.
| yamazakiwi wrote:
| Are you positing that if we maintain our current trajectory
| economically that Zombie Unicorns will start harshly cutting
| costs. Why 6 months? I'm actually curious why that number as
| I'm not in the environment.
| conqrr wrote:
| The so called 'bar' references doesn't make much sense. There is
| no way to measure the performance of an individual. Leetcode
| style questions don't indicate performance. And what cannot be
| measured in the first place in a 4 hour interview, cannot have a
| 'bar'.
| 0xB31B1B wrote:
| There are absolutely ways to measure the performance of an
| individual. That leetcode style questions are not a great
| indicator of ability to do the job well does not mean you
| cannot predict job performance at all.
| conqrr wrote:
| The bar here is interview performance bar. There is no way to
| judge a person's performance in 4 hours. Anything you come up
| with can be hacked or imperfect. Therefore there is no way to
| set a bar.
| 0xB31B1B wrote:
| You can't perfectly judge someone in an interview context,
| but you can get pretty good if you ask the right questions
| with the right structure. Where I work the final round
| interview we give the candidates a week to write a design
| doc for a recent project they have worked on and present it
| to us in a 45 minute meeting. We deep dive on their impact,
| the decisions they made, the tradeoffs etc. It has been an
| extremely strong signal for us.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| I love this method.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| In my current role I've done about 30 whiteboard interviews
| in the last 2.5 years, and I come down on the side that
| they are about as predictive as throwing darts.
|
| The most successful candidates I've helped hire in my
| career were the ones where we had an informal process where
| we just talked about things and I went with my gut. They
| say that's not objective or measurable, full of bias, etc.
|
| I toss my hands up in frustration.
| pineconewarrior wrote:
| I have not seen or heard of any engineering cuts in any of my
| circle's workplaces. Only supporting staff (project managers
| etc).
|
| I clicked on a few of the google sheets linked in the article and
| it seems (at least per my random selection) that this seems to be
| the case at these places too.
| pcurve wrote:
| Managers are still so busy trying to fill open headcounts because
| it's usually use it or lose it. But they know hiring freeze is
| coming
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