[HN Gopher] Low Earth Orbit Visualization ___________________________________________________________________ Low Earth Orbit Visualization Author : aseidl Score : 404 points Date : 2022-10-14 16:22 UTC (6 hours ago) (HTM) web link (platform.leolabs.space) (TXT) w3m dump (platform.leolabs.space) | martinky24 wrote: | Neat. I wonder if this is solely generated from their array of | distrbuted sensors, or if this is just another visualization tool | using space-track.org's data. | scanny wrote: | Im on my phone but you could probably look in the network | requests panel of your browsers developer tools to see if any | request is sent to space-track.org. | | Side note: does anyone know of a good tool / app for looking at | things like that on iOS ? | beardyw wrote: | No network activity. Seems like it might update occasionally. | beardyw wrote: | It does. | martinky24 wrote: | space-track has pretty aggressive rate limiting, so they'd | probably download the catalog to their servers once a day or | so and work off of that. | tullianus wrote: | It doesn't appear to include any objects in the GEO belt (which | space-track does), so I'd guess it's just objects from | LEOlabs's own sensors. | simlevesque wrote: | Can someone fill me in quickly on what are "instruments"? | detaro wrote: | the radars collecting the information | johnklos wrote: | Scott Manley, unsurprisingly, did a nice video showing what it'd | look like if you could see all the satellites and debris in space | from the surface of Earth. It's scary how much stuff there is up | there. | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJNGi-bt9NM | fortysixdegrees wrote: | What tech is powering this? | | Is it unity or Godot or something? | insane_dreamer wrote: | Amazing that each piece of debris is ID'd and tracked. | MR4D wrote: | The fact that I can view LEO objects in real-time on a phone just | shows how awesome technology has become. | | Even 10 years ago, that thought would have been ludicrous. | FpUser wrote: | This is really nice made and shows how crowded the LEO space is | outworlder wrote: | Or _not_ crowded. | | We have more boats and planes than there are orbital objects. | If you open flightradar you'll see an absolute abomination of | planes flying overhead. Yet, unless you live close to an | airport, you probably won't see any. The planet is really | large. Space is larger still. | aerostable_slug wrote: | Not sure why this is downvoted. Space is really, really big | (the name fits!). The biggest Earth-orbiting satellites are a | bit less than the size of a school bus (the biggest being | something like KH-9 size) in terms of mass, somewhat bigger | when it comes to things like parabolic dishes. | | We worry about orbital debris because of the consequence of | loss. There's a lot of room up there (not discounting | everyone's concern). | insane_dreamer wrote: | The "Unknown" objects are literally UFOs | rickreynoldssf wrote: | That crashed my browser HARD. Needed a full reboot. Thanks for | that! | sosodev wrote: | Which browser are you using? WebGL2 should be perfectly safe. | The tab crashed for me once but Firefox just reloaded it | without a hitch. | iwillbenice wrote: | Yeah, there's a lot of objects being rendered on screen. My GPU | (3090 Ti) was running at about 41% while I was playing with the | site. Amazing site, but definitely GPU intensive. | sosodev wrote: | Do you have a high refresh rate monitor? I only hit ~35% GPU | usage with 1660ti but my browser is synced to 60 FPS. | iwillbenice wrote: | It is 100Hz refresh rate - so 100fps I imagine. | LeifCarrotson wrote: | My GPU - an Intel 4600 integrated GPU in a 2014 laptop - | kicked up to about 95% utilization while playing with the | site. I suspect I was getting fewer details than you - mine | was not silky smooth but still perfectly usable, at what I'd | estimate to be about 20 FPS. | | That your powerful GPU was putting in some effort while my | poky GPU [edit: and my 2018 low-end Android phone, admittedly | at ~4FPS] are still able to render the scene at all indicates | to me that they put in some impressive effort to make the | graphics scale for different configurations! | pb7 wrote: | This Safari tab is at 65% GPU utilization on M1 MBP. Can't | quite tell what frame rate but appears visually silky smooth | so guessing 60+. | Tepix wrote: | Just curious ;-) Whom are you thanking in particular? The web | page authors? The browser programmers? The OS programmers? | Perhaps the graphics driver programmers? HN? The OP? The | readers of your comment? | dylan604 wrote: | Whoever is at fault. They are just putting the thanks out | there. It is not their fault that those responsible have not | equipped themselves with the proper receivers. | | It's like a bad API. The docs say to send, but there's no | mechanism to receive. It's not the fault of the user. | niix wrote: | Pardon my ignorance, but how in the hell do we get other things | into space with all of this in way? | mlindner wrote: | The displayed size is over 1000 times larger than they actually | are. | gmiller123456 wrote: | The satellites are not to scale, most are very small. | 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: | The space station, apogee altitude 422 km, relies heavily on | photon torpedos. | possiblydrunk wrote: | Is there a way to set the time to 'now'? | greyhair wrote: | Does anyone know what the altitude scaling is on this? | geenew wrote: | This made me look up a link to my old favourite for this kind of | thing, CelesTrak.org . Unfortunately, they discontinued their | visualizer due to licensing problems. | | For posterity, this was the tutorial: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC90GyHMabk | | The announcement is here: | https://twitter.com/CelesTrak/status/1547264390650527744 | | For now, the person behind it's got a (informative) error message | showing up: https://celestrak.com/cesium/orbit-viz.php | | He's asking for donations, might be worth it. It was a good tool. | rzimmerman wrote: | The ask comes from T.S. Kelso who is well regarded in the orbit | tracking/space debris field. He's done a lot of important work | making this information public and a lot of public good for | collision avoidance. If it's important to you feel free to | offer support! It's not clear to me he's asking for money, | probably just help and time. | baron816 wrote: | These kinds of visualizations give you the impression that LEO is | much more crowded than it actually is. | itslennysfault wrote: | I feel like the "objects" aren't anywhere near being to scale. | Pretty sure they should be MUCH MUCH smaller relative to the | earth to be realistic. | outworlder wrote: | If they were, we wouldn't be able to see it in | visualizations. | lastofthemojito wrote: | I mean, you need to actually be able to see the objects for | it to be a visualization though. If the satellites were drawn | to scale they'd be smaller than a pixel. | | I think you can get a decent sense of how crowded (or not) an | area is by watching how many objects pass though it. The | state that I live in looks like it has somewhere between 1 | and 10 satellites above it at any given time, which drives | home the point that LEO isn't quite as "busy" as it feels | from a zoomed-out, sped-up view of the map. | pc86 wrote: | There's another comment saying that the ISS to scale at the | default zoom would be roughly 1/150th of a pixel. It stands | to reason that every satellite here is much, much smaller | than that. | dasil003 wrote: | Right, because apart from the moon, all objects orbiting the | earth are considerably smaller than the New York Metropolitan | Area which would not be your understanding if you took the | visualization to be a scale representation. | pbmango wrote: | This looks extremely crowded - but reminds me of how apparently | hard it was to find or bump into another ship crossing even a | confined sea like the Med before sonar. With three dimensions | here and more avoidance planning, even this level of space | probably looks _very_ empty still. | Tepix wrote: | It is of course not to scale. You simply couldn't see any | satellites unless looking at ridiculously small areas. Most of | them measure a few meters at best. | barbazoo wrote: | This is fascinating. Can someone point me to resources that | explain Starlink's seemingly (but obviously not) random | trajectories as well as their positions (some in a line, some on | individual trajectories). | modeless wrote: | The ones all in a line are recently launched. They are launched | ~50 at a time into a low orbit and use thrusters to raise | themselves up over the course of a few weeks or months. During | that process they are all lined up in a row which slowly | lengthens over time. As they reach operational altitude they | separate into groups and each group spaces itself evenly around | one orbit for even coverage. | | For more detail than you ever wanted, check here: | https://mikepuchol.com/modeling-starlink-capacity-843b2387f5... | Diederich wrote: | I think this visualization makes it a little more clear what's | going on with Starlink orbits: https://heavens- | above.com/Starlink.aspx | ubj wrote: | Those long, straight-line convoys of Starlink satellites are | fascinating. There's a few of them I could see scattered around | the Earth. At what point do they start breaking up into unrelated | orbits? | | Looking forward to using this website to try spotting satellites | at night. There's something strangely thrilling about seeing | objects in the night sky that were placed there by people. | kidme5 wrote: | Looks familiar...(!) | | https://youtu.be/fEkXTV69yo4?t=22s | kaboomerizer wrote: | >> https://youtu.be/fEkXTV69yo4?t=22s | | Holy S$#! I didn't know about that. | | Are there links between this Space Force project and | Starlink? | s1artibartfast wrote: | It just shows what an orbiting satellite constellation | looks like and why so many are required. That is the | similarity | georgeg23 wrote: | Actually SpaceX IS working on what that video shows: | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Military_capabilit | ies | mlindner wrote: | How's this related? | s1artibartfast wrote: | It just shows what an orbiting satellite constellation | looks like and why so many are required. That is the | similarity | mlindner wrote: | > At what point do they start breaking up into unrelated | orbits? | | It's not as easy to see as in this visualization, but Jonathan | McDowell (https://twitter.com/planet4589) posts graphs on his | website of each launch of starlink satellites as they raise | orbits. https://planet4589.org/space/stats/star/starstats.html | | Scroll down to the individual launches and there's images you | can click on of the orbit raising progress of each launch. | | Example of the Starlink 4-21 mission that launched on July 7th | of this year: https://planet4589.org/space/stats/star/spl51.jpg | (One satellite failed, which isn't that unusual, and will de- | orbit probably sometime early next year if they don't recover | it.) | mncharity wrote: | And the adjacent graphs show phase (line growing longer, | spreading along an orbit), and plane (line breaking into | multiple lines slotting into nearby orbits). Positioning is | accomplished by spending time at different-than-deployed | altitudes, mostly lower. Lower gives a difference in nodal | precession (Earth being non-spherical), IIRC something | vaguely like half a degree/day difference out of several | deg/day, slowly changing plane westward. Thus plane changes | take weeks of drifting. Launch being far more about "go fast | (in some direction)" than "while being high", rapid plane | change (direction change) would have prohibitive "launch- | like" energy cost. So a single launch will populate one or | few nearby planes. And finally lower orbits orbit faster, | quickly overtaking deployed sats in a single plane to reach | deployment positions. Kerbal Space Program is thought a fun | way to play with such. | bagels wrote: | They don't break up in to unrelated orbits. They simply spread | out along the same orbit by varying the period for a few weeks. | modeless wrote: | For spotting satellites at night, try my site: | https://james.darpinian.com/satellites/ | | Most of the satellites shown on the Leolabs site are too dim to | see without a telescope because they don't reflect enough | light. My site calculates brightness and filters down to the | ones that you can see with the unaided eye. | | There are still quite a few! ISS in particular is very bright | and can even be seen before sunset. The new Chinese space | station Tiangong is also a good one to try. In the next few | weeks it's expected that the recently launched BlueWalker-3 | will become quite bright too as it expands its enormous phased | array antenna (64 square meters!). But the coolest is probably | if you can catch a recently launched Starlink train, 50 | satellites all visible simultaneously or within seconds of each | other. (A few weeks after launch the Starlink satellites are no | longer visible as they reach their operational orbits.) | ubj wrote: | Very nice! Thanks for sharing this--looking forward to using | your website! | flavmartins wrote: | Fantastic site! | rmorey wrote: | This is really well done, I will try it out tonight! | prazgaitis wrote: | This site is really cool, and I love your blog post | explaining how it works. Hats off, fantastic work! | jlpom wrote: | Your website is very well designed, thanks | 101008 wrote: | Wow. I allowed Chrome to know my location for the first time | and Street View was in my front door. I thought it was going | to use the IP but it's impossible to be that accurate, does | it Chrome use my Home on my profile location or something | like that? | netrus wrote: | The Street View cars log information about wifi access | points, and use wifi data from your device to guess your | location. | CompuHacker wrote: | That'd explain the changes to Location Services on | Android over the past several years. | milosmns wrote: | Is it related to Android though? I read somewhere/thought | that it is primarily the Google Maps cars recording WiFi | data and not phones). Europe wouldn't be covered at all | if it was coming from the phones, right? (GDPR) | | I mean, you can have a street full of iPhones - which I | assume is a regular occurrence in USA, where people trust | Apple - and still Google Maps on iPhone would guess well | enough where you are. For example, I'm far away from the | street and Google hasn't passed here recently, so my | WiFi-based location is always way off (using Android). In | my other home (and vacation home in another country) it's | the opposite, because the cars have passed quite | recently. | | The story checks out so far for me... but I am kinda lazy | to search for the source on this right now, so pls share | if you have it. | modeless wrote: | I believe this data mainly comes from phones, not street | view cars. There are about a million times more phones | out there than street view cars, and they all have GPS | and Wifi. Apple had this feature long before Apple Maps | was a thing, and they didn't license Street View data | from Google. | [deleted] | Kucher wrote: | I have used your site to successfully spot Starlink trains | and the ISS several times. It's very well-designed and the | included street view overlay especially helps with knowing | where in the sky to look. | | Thank you! | jgtrosh wrote: | I can't tell if the times are for my timezone? | modeless wrote: | Times are displayed in the time zone your device's clock is | set to. Unless you use the "Change Location" feature, in | which case local time zone of the selected location will be | used, with explicit time zone abbreviations shown. | dwringer wrote: | > At what point do they start breaking up into unrelated | orbits? | | I can't speak with any authority, but in general a train of | satellites would likely be moving in an orbit with either the | apogee/perigee similar to the target orbits, but the other end | of the orbit being higher or lower. Each time the train reaches | the extremum at the target altitude, one of the satellites | thrusts to adjust the other side of its orbit to target, which | pushes it out of the pack. | | The specifics may be so different as to make that explanation | totally wrong but it's probably not too far from the general | principle. | stvnbn wrote: | Have you tried to look at the objects not placed by humans? | daveslash wrote: | Previous Comment Threads: | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24773462 | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26309367 | dang wrote: | Thanks! Macroexpanded: | | _LeoLabs: Low Earth Orbit Visualization_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31413373 - May 2022 (3 | comments) | | _LeoLabs: low earth orbit visualization_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31180865 - April 2022 (1 | comment) | | _Low Earth Orbit Visualization_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26309367 - March 2021 (93 | comments) | | _Monitoring a high risk conjunction between two large defunct | objects in LEO_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24773462 | - Oct 2020 (150 comments) | | _Low Earth Orbit Visualization_ - | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22165645 - Jan 2020 (1 | comment) | social_quotient wrote: | I wonder how much light is blocked by this stuff floating around? | Seems like there are parallel efforts to make atmospheric dust | while this is already up there. | ezconnect wrote: | Are the speed realtime? It seems they are really fast. | possiblydrunk wrote: | I think if you set speed to 1, it's realtime. | rajeshp1986 wrote: | How is this built? Is this built on d3.js? This reminded me of | old flash style plugins which we don't see any more. | runlevel1 wrote: | It's using Three.js[^1] with Photons[^2], and a number of other | interesting libraries for calculation like satellite-js[^3]. | | [1]: https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/ | | [2]: https://github.com/mkkellogg/Photons | | [3]: https://github.com/shashwatak/satellite-js | sosodev wrote: | I don't know which framework they're using, if any, but this is | WebGL2. You can write fairly modern OpenGL code and run it in | the browser. :) | fidla wrote: | Doesn't work in Brave | ck2 wrote: | We need "Space Roombas"(tm) | | Starlink was first but what happens when a dozen companies | eventually want to put up their own 10,000 low-orbit satellites? | merely-unlikely wrote: | Starlink follows the common solution of having them deorbit and | burn up in the atmosphere at EOL. Competitors likely will do | the same. | | Traffic management is an ongoing debate with the current | solution simply being ground based tracking and orbit | management. | NegativeLatency wrote: | Until your space roomba hits space debris going the opposite | direction and becomes even more space debris | matheusmoreira wrote: | How would that work? A rocket launches into orbit an unmanned | satellite capable of autonomously intercepting the orbit of | debris in order to collect it and then deorbit itself? Seems | extremely expensive for little benefit. | | It's my understanding that atmospheric drag and orbital | perturbations due to the gravity of other celestial bodies | cause satellites to need station keeping maneuvers just to | avoid crashing into the Earth. So it seems to me that this | debris problem will eventually take care of itself. | NickC25 wrote: | That's really cool. I know this comment is low-effort, but I | don't really care - this type of real-time visualization is | really interesting and I want to see more of this sort of thing | going forward. | | That said, the blue dots are "unknown" - what could those | possibly be? Not trying to be conspiratorial or anything, but is | it some sort of debris from classified operations or foreign | intelligence operations? | tullianus wrote: | Often you can figure out what spacecraft/rocket a piece of | debris came from with a good catalogue of orbits and some math | - these are labeled "Debris." Often you just can't - these are | labeled "Unknown." | | The US Space Force does a lot of the object cataloging, and | they _occasionally_ will pretend one of their classified | satellites doesn 't exist, but there's only a handful of these. | 3pt14159 wrote: | > but there's only a handful of these. | | Huge if true. | tullianus wrote: | Oh, there are plenty of US satellites with classified | payloads/missions; I just mean that most classified US | satellites DO have orbital elements listed in the Space | Force catalog. | aerostable_slug wrote: | I'd add that it would be pointless to try to hide a fair | number of them, given that they approach the size of | school buses (no joke -- the now-retired KH-9 was | nicknamed "Big Bird" for good reason) and can be imaged | on relatively consumer-ready optics. Some Russians made a | nice stink a few years ago by using (IIRC) laser | illumination to make some relatively high-res shots of | American recce sats. | | The interesting aspects of them have to do with how far | off-axis they can function. This was the major | consequence of loss of the Morison leak of the KH-11 | shots of a Soviet carrier to Jane's Defense Weekly -- the | image revealed how far off-axis it could image and some | clues to how it processed imagery. | bagels wrote: | Often not in the public catalog though. | maicro wrote: | I only saw one blue dot while looking around (briefly on a | laggy computer, so there are probably plenty of others): | "L6188942", which you can isolate in the view by searching for | it. https://www.n2yo.com/database/?id=81078#results shows there | are no results for the "NORAD ID" for that same object. | | I don't have any domain knowledge here, so can't argue either | way, but one possibility I can imagine is it's a place holder | for "somebody launched something and we just don't have the | records yet". No clue how realistic that is, and I'd trust my | sibling comment's explanation more, but it wouldn't shock me if | it takes time for info to propagate. | gtirloni wrote: | Enable Debris and be shocked. | squarefoot wrote: | Most of those debris dots however aren't labeled; I wonder if | they are actual debris. | ourmandave wrote: | Try ground view with debris on. | | It looks like Asteroids after you've shot them into 10,000 | micro asteroids. | | Just needs a UFO going pew-pew... | nerdponx wrote: | I don't really know what I'm looking at here, but it feels very | sci-fi and I'm into it. | | I also wonder, how do they track so many objects? Who actually | tracks them? How much does it cost (energy, engineers) to | maintain the tracking systems? | | Edit: Are these all _simulated_ orbits? Is there a big "orbit | registry" somewhere? And what are the "beams"? | sizzzzlerz wrote: | The US Air Force, for one, is responsible for tracking | everything it sees. That generally means computing TLAs for | each object. Whether they release this info, I don't know. | evilotto wrote: | Space Force. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18th_Space_Defense_Squadron | tullianus wrote: | That capability was transferred to the Space Force recently. | They make their data publicly available here: | https://www.space-track.org/ | [deleted] | tullianus wrote: | LEOlabs operates its own radar systems that point upwards-ish. | The "beams" you see are the fields of view of their radars. | When an object crosses that field of view going at orbital | speeds, LEOlabs tracks it and uses the partial trajectory | information to figure out the orbit of the object. From there, | it can potentially associate that object with existing objects | in its own and other databases (the US Space Force, which | operates its own radars, is one of the best-known). | | It then sells that information to spacecraft operators, who may | be using the orbital information to determine if their | spacecraft has a risk of hitting another object in space, or to | figure out where their spacecraft are in the first place | (usually when they're not talking to the ground). | beardyw wrote: | I am pretty certain they must be dead reckoning the location | with occasional updates. | mlindner wrote: | That's how all space debris tracking works. Luckily orbits | are rather predictable paths, but there's still atmospheric | drag, lunar and solar gravity, non-uniform Earth gravity, | solar photon pressure and measurement imprecision to deal | with. | ahazred8ta wrote: | Is there a big orbit registry somewhere? Yes. | https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/osoindex/search-ng.jspx Each | individual object is observed every few weeks, and then they | estimate its current position with math and physics. | | How do they track them? With big expensive radar systems, | mostly paid for by the military. It's an international | collaboration. | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_domain_awareness#Systems | mlindner wrote: | LEOlabs operates and pays for their own radars. They're a | commercial company. | jcims wrote: | If the earth is 750 pixels wide in the default zoom, each pixel | is 10mi/16km. Scale image of the ISS would be roughly 1/150th of | a pixel. | jcwayne wrote: | Thank you for this. While the visualization is | useful/interesting, it frustrates me how often similar visuals | are used in news stories about space junk. Yes, it's a problem, | but using visuals like this without proper explanation | misrepresents it terribly. | jve wrote: | Yes, and they don't add footnotes. From visualization it | looks like crash is inevitable. But yeah, otherwise there | would be no visualization. | | Think about it: they say 19334 objects are tracked. Imagine | that many cars or trucks in the world scattered all across. | Then extrude that to couple hundreds of kilometers. Would | that feel congested to you? 19334 new cars are being | manufactured in less than 2,5 hours... | oittaa wrote: | And that's before you add oceans and horizontal planes... | bagels wrote: | Those news stories would be a lot less interesting with a | black picture of space with a footnote that the satellites | are there, just too small to see. | ortusdux wrote: | I would love to see a visualization comparing orbital | traffic/debris with marine traffic. | orbital-decay wrote: | With orbital junk visualizations, relative size isn't that | important. What matters is collision probability. Low polar | sun-synchronous orbits where the remote sensing stuff | typically lives are super crowded, especially at the poles; | in contrast, GSO is a well kept orbit with low relative | velocities, and the dead stuff drifts away, so it's really | safe. | spacehunt wrote: | I guess this is US only? The site is horribly broken upon | loading. Only after using developer tools I discovered that all | scripts and assets return 403 - CloudFront configured to block | your country. | | Edit: I'm in Hong Kong. | secondcoming wrote: | Worked for me in the UK. | hammock wrote: | How do you launch a satellite without risking running into one of | these things on the way up? Do you have to calculate the | trajectories of all of them individually? | iandanforth wrote: | Yes. But luckily computers are fast and the spaces between each | of those dots is (usually) pretty big. | chroma wrote: | Regarding launching and collisions: You mostly don't have to | worry about it. The visualization makes space look crowded, but | each satellite is over 150,000 times smaller than what is | visualized. Space is very very big and very very empty. LEO is | bigger than the surface of the earth and dozens of times | thicker than the earth's crust. | | It only takes a few radar stations to track all the satellites, | and the US Space Force makes their data public.[1][2] Most | satellites don't have much in the way of maneuvering | capabilities, so you don't need continuous tracking, just | updates every few days or so. | | 1. | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Surveillan... | | 2. https://www.space-track.org/documentation#api | doikor wrote: | Yes they do know the trajectories so you put yours in a one | where it should not hit anything. Most modern satellites also | have engines so they can move on their orbit to dodge stuff if | needed. Also remember that space is 3 dimensional so you can be | at the same exact "spot" on this map but still be few | kilometers apart. | | Also this visualization is kind of misleading as it makes the | satellites look way too big. In reality you could not even see | them from even from the closest zoom available. | russellbeattie wrote: | Imagine if this was to scale and each of the satellites was a | giant floating city the size of Tokyo or LA? I wonder how many | centuries will pass before that becomes a reality. | | It's sort of interesting that there's been a wonky steam punk | movie about battling cities roaming the Earth, gobbling each | other up, but none about the more plausible future where there | are battles between giant orbiting cities who pass their hated | rivals once every certain number of years. | rtanks wrote: | This is truly fascinating. | mortenjorck wrote: | If you enter "1" for the visualization speed, is that the actual | recorded velocities? | fnordpiglet wrote: | I've played kerbal space program for over 500 hours and I can | confirm LEO looks like this in my game. | matheusmoreira wrote: | That's impressive but is your processor alright? PS4 Pro nearly | catches fire trying to simulate one modular space station. | | Do you know if there's been any news on KSP2? At this point I'm | not sure it will ever happen. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-10-14 23:00 UTC)