[HN Gopher] Low Earth Orbit Visualization
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Low Earth Orbit Visualization
        
       Author : aseidl
       Score  : 404 points
       Date   : 2022-10-14 16:22 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (platform.leolabs.space)
 (TXT) w3m dump (platform.leolabs.space)
        
       | martinky24 wrote:
       | Neat. I wonder if this is solely generated from their array of
       | distrbuted sensors, or if this is just another visualization tool
       | using space-track.org's data.
        
         | scanny wrote:
         | Im on my phone but you could probably look in the network
         | requests panel of your browsers developer tools to see if any
         | request is sent to space-track.org.
         | 
         | Side note: does anyone know of a good tool / app for looking at
         | things like that on iOS ?
        
           | beardyw wrote:
           | No network activity. Seems like it might update occasionally.
        
             | beardyw wrote:
             | It does.
        
           | martinky24 wrote:
           | space-track has pretty aggressive rate limiting, so they'd
           | probably download the catalog to their servers once a day or
           | so and work off of that.
        
         | tullianus wrote:
         | It doesn't appear to include any objects in the GEO belt (which
         | space-track does), so I'd guess it's just objects from
         | LEOlabs's own sensors.
        
       | simlevesque wrote:
       | Can someone fill me in quickly on what are "instruments"?
        
         | detaro wrote:
         | the radars collecting the information
        
       | johnklos wrote:
       | Scott Manley, unsurprisingly, did a nice video showing what it'd
       | look like if you could see all the satellites and debris in space
       | from the surface of Earth. It's scary how much stuff there is up
       | there.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJNGi-bt9NM
        
       | fortysixdegrees wrote:
       | What tech is powering this?
       | 
       | Is it unity or Godot or something?
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | Amazing that each piece of debris is ID'd and tracked.
        
       | MR4D wrote:
       | The fact that I can view LEO objects in real-time on a phone just
       | shows how awesome technology has become.
       | 
       | Even 10 years ago, that thought would have been ludicrous.
        
       | FpUser wrote:
       | This is really nice made and shows how crowded the LEO space is
        
         | outworlder wrote:
         | Or _not_ crowded.
         | 
         | We have more boats and planes than there are orbital objects.
         | If you open flightradar you'll see an absolute abomination of
         | planes flying overhead. Yet, unless you live close to an
         | airport, you probably won't see any. The planet is really
         | large. Space is larger still.
        
           | aerostable_slug wrote:
           | Not sure why this is downvoted. Space is really, really big
           | (the name fits!). The biggest Earth-orbiting satellites are a
           | bit less than the size of a school bus (the biggest being
           | something like KH-9 size) in terms of mass, somewhat bigger
           | when it comes to things like parabolic dishes.
           | 
           | We worry about orbital debris because of the consequence of
           | loss. There's a lot of room up there (not discounting
           | everyone's concern).
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | The "Unknown" objects are literally UFOs
        
       | rickreynoldssf wrote:
       | That crashed my browser HARD. Needed a full reboot. Thanks for
       | that!
        
         | sosodev wrote:
         | Which browser are you using? WebGL2 should be perfectly safe.
         | The tab crashed for me once but Firefox just reloaded it
         | without a hitch.
        
         | iwillbenice wrote:
         | Yeah, there's a lot of objects being rendered on screen. My GPU
         | (3090 Ti) was running at about 41% while I was playing with the
         | site. Amazing site, but definitely GPU intensive.
        
           | sosodev wrote:
           | Do you have a high refresh rate monitor? I only hit ~35% GPU
           | usage with 1660ti but my browser is synced to 60 FPS.
        
             | iwillbenice wrote:
             | It is 100Hz refresh rate - so 100fps I imagine.
        
           | LeifCarrotson wrote:
           | My GPU - an Intel 4600 integrated GPU in a 2014 laptop -
           | kicked up to about 95% utilization while playing with the
           | site. I suspect I was getting fewer details than you - mine
           | was not silky smooth but still perfectly usable, at what I'd
           | estimate to be about 20 FPS.
           | 
           | That your powerful GPU was putting in some effort while my
           | poky GPU [edit: and my 2018 low-end Android phone, admittedly
           | at ~4FPS] are still able to render the scene at all indicates
           | to me that they put in some impressive effort to make the
           | graphics scale for different configurations!
        
           | pb7 wrote:
           | This Safari tab is at 65% GPU utilization on M1 MBP. Can't
           | quite tell what frame rate but appears visually silky smooth
           | so guessing 60+.
        
         | Tepix wrote:
         | Just curious ;-) Whom are you thanking in particular? The web
         | page authors? The browser programmers? The OS programmers?
         | Perhaps the graphics driver programmers? HN? The OP? The
         | readers of your comment?
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Whoever is at fault. They are just putting the thanks out
           | there. It is not their fault that those responsible have not
           | equipped themselves with the proper receivers.
           | 
           | It's like a bad API. The docs say to send, but there's no
           | mechanism to receive. It's not the fault of the user.
        
       | niix wrote:
       | Pardon my ignorance, but how in the hell do we get other things
       | into space with all of this in way?
        
         | mlindner wrote:
         | The displayed size is over 1000 times larger than they actually
         | are.
        
         | gmiller123456 wrote:
         | The satellites are not to scale, most are very small.
        
         | 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote:
         | The space station, apogee altitude 422 km, relies heavily on
         | photon torpedos.
        
       | possiblydrunk wrote:
       | Is there a way to set the time to 'now'?
        
       | greyhair wrote:
       | Does anyone know what the altitude scaling is on this?
        
       | geenew wrote:
       | This made me look up a link to my old favourite for this kind of
       | thing, CelesTrak.org . Unfortunately, they discontinued their
       | visualizer due to licensing problems.
       | 
       | For posterity, this was the tutorial:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC90GyHMabk
       | 
       | The announcement is here:
       | https://twitter.com/CelesTrak/status/1547264390650527744
       | 
       | For now, the person behind it's got a (informative) error message
       | showing up: https://celestrak.com/cesium/orbit-viz.php
       | 
       | He's asking for donations, might be worth it. It was a good tool.
        
         | rzimmerman wrote:
         | The ask comes from T.S. Kelso who is well regarded in the orbit
         | tracking/space debris field. He's done a lot of important work
         | making this information public and a lot of public good for
         | collision avoidance. If it's important to you feel free to
         | offer support! It's not clear to me he's asking for money,
         | probably just help and time.
        
       | baron816 wrote:
       | These kinds of visualizations give you the impression that LEO is
       | much more crowded than it actually is.
        
         | itslennysfault wrote:
         | I feel like the "objects" aren't anywhere near being to scale.
         | Pretty sure they should be MUCH MUCH smaller relative to the
         | earth to be realistic.
        
           | outworlder wrote:
           | If they were, we wouldn't be able to see it in
           | visualizations.
        
           | lastofthemojito wrote:
           | I mean, you need to actually be able to see the objects for
           | it to be a visualization though. If the satellites were drawn
           | to scale they'd be smaller than a pixel.
           | 
           | I think you can get a decent sense of how crowded (or not) an
           | area is by watching how many objects pass though it. The
           | state that I live in looks like it has somewhere between 1
           | and 10 satellites above it at any given time, which drives
           | home the point that LEO isn't quite as "busy" as it feels
           | from a zoomed-out, sped-up view of the map.
        
           | pc86 wrote:
           | There's another comment saying that the ISS to scale at the
           | default zoom would be roughly 1/150th of a pixel. It stands
           | to reason that every satellite here is much, much smaller
           | than that.
        
         | dasil003 wrote:
         | Right, because apart from the moon, all objects orbiting the
         | earth are considerably smaller than the New York Metropolitan
         | Area which would not be your understanding if you took the
         | visualization to be a scale representation.
        
       | pbmango wrote:
       | This looks extremely crowded - but reminds me of how apparently
       | hard it was to find or bump into another ship crossing even a
       | confined sea like the Med before sonar. With three dimensions
       | here and more avoidance planning, even this level of space
       | probably looks _very_ empty still.
        
         | Tepix wrote:
         | It is of course not to scale. You simply couldn't see any
         | satellites unless looking at ridiculously small areas. Most of
         | them measure a few meters at best.
        
       | barbazoo wrote:
       | This is fascinating. Can someone point me to resources that
       | explain Starlink's seemingly (but obviously not) random
       | trajectories as well as their positions (some in a line, some on
       | individual trajectories).
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | The ones all in a line are recently launched. They are launched
         | ~50 at a time into a low orbit and use thrusters to raise
         | themselves up over the course of a few weeks or months. During
         | that process they are all lined up in a row which slowly
         | lengthens over time. As they reach operational altitude they
         | separate into groups and each group spaces itself evenly around
         | one orbit for even coverage.
         | 
         | For more detail than you ever wanted, check here:
         | https://mikepuchol.com/modeling-starlink-capacity-843b2387f5...
        
         | Diederich wrote:
         | I think this visualization makes it a little more clear what's
         | going on with Starlink orbits: https://heavens-
         | above.com/Starlink.aspx
        
       | ubj wrote:
       | Those long, straight-line convoys of Starlink satellites are
       | fascinating. There's a few of them I could see scattered around
       | the Earth. At what point do they start breaking up into unrelated
       | orbits?
       | 
       | Looking forward to using this website to try spotting satellites
       | at night. There's something strangely thrilling about seeing
       | objects in the night sky that were placed there by people.
        
         | kidme5 wrote:
         | Looks familiar...(!)
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/fEkXTV69yo4?t=22s
        
           | kaboomerizer wrote:
           | >> https://youtu.be/fEkXTV69yo4?t=22s
           | 
           | Holy S$#! I didn't know about that.
           | 
           | Are there links between this Space Force project and
           | Starlink?
        
             | s1artibartfast wrote:
             | It just shows what an orbiting satellite constellation
             | looks like and why so many are required. That is the
             | similarity
        
               | georgeg23 wrote:
               | Actually SpaceX IS working on what that video shows:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#Military_capabilit
               | ies
        
           | mlindner wrote:
           | How's this related?
        
             | s1artibartfast wrote:
             | It just shows what an orbiting satellite constellation
             | looks like and why so many are required. That is the
             | similarity
        
         | mlindner wrote:
         | > At what point do they start breaking up into unrelated
         | orbits?
         | 
         | It's not as easy to see as in this visualization, but Jonathan
         | McDowell (https://twitter.com/planet4589) posts graphs on his
         | website of each launch of starlink satellites as they raise
         | orbits. https://planet4589.org/space/stats/star/starstats.html
         | 
         | Scroll down to the individual launches and there's images you
         | can click on of the orbit raising progress of each launch.
         | 
         | Example of the Starlink 4-21 mission that launched on July 7th
         | of this year: https://planet4589.org/space/stats/star/spl51.jpg
         | (One satellite failed, which isn't that unusual, and will de-
         | orbit probably sometime early next year if they don't recover
         | it.)
        
           | mncharity wrote:
           | And the adjacent graphs show phase (line growing longer,
           | spreading along an orbit), and plane (line breaking into
           | multiple lines slotting into nearby orbits). Positioning is
           | accomplished by spending time at different-than-deployed
           | altitudes, mostly lower. Lower gives a difference in nodal
           | precession (Earth being non-spherical), IIRC something
           | vaguely like half a degree/day difference out of several
           | deg/day, slowly changing plane westward. Thus plane changes
           | take weeks of drifting. Launch being far more about "go fast
           | (in some direction)" than "while being high", rapid plane
           | change (direction change) would have prohibitive "launch-
           | like" energy cost. So a single launch will populate one or
           | few nearby planes. And finally lower orbits orbit faster,
           | quickly overtaking deployed sats in a single plane to reach
           | deployment positions. Kerbal Space Program is thought a fun
           | way to play with such.
        
         | bagels wrote:
         | They don't break up in to unrelated orbits. They simply spread
         | out along the same orbit by varying the period for a few weeks.
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | For spotting satellites at night, try my site:
         | https://james.darpinian.com/satellites/
         | 
         | Most of the satellites shown on the Leolabs site are too dim to
         | see without a telescope because they don't reflect enough
         | light. My site calculates brightness and filters down to the
         | ones that you can see with the unaided eye.
         | 
         | There are still quite a few! ISS in particular is very bright
         | and can even be seen before sunset. The new Chinese space
         | station Tiangong is also a good one to try. In the next few
         | weeks it's expected that the recently launched BlueWalker-3
         | will become quite bright too as it expands its enormous phased
         | array antenna (64 square meters!). But the coolest is probably
         | if you can catch a recently launched Starlink train, 50
         | satellites all visible simultaneously or within seconds of each
         | other. (A few weeks after launch the Starlink satellites are no
         | longer visible as they reach their operational orbits.)
        
           | ubj wrote:
           | Very nice! Thanks for sharing this--looking forward to using
           | your website!
        
           | flavmartins wrote:
           | Fantastic site!
        
           | rmorey wrote:
           | This is really well done, I will try it out tonight!
        
           | prazgaitis wrote:
           | This site is really cool, and I love your blog post
           | explaining how it works. Hats off, fantastic work!
        
           | jlpom wrote:
           | Your website is very well designed, thanks
        
           | 101008 wrote:
           | Wow. I allowed Chrome to know my location for the first time
           | and Street View was in my front door. I thought it was going
           | to use the IP but it's impossible to be that accurate, does
           | it Chrome use my Home on my profile location or something
           | like that?
        
             | netrus wrote:
             | The Street View cars log information about wifi access
             | points, and use wifi data from your device to guess your
             | location.
        
               | CompuHacker wrote:
               | That'd explain the changes to Location Services on
               | Android over the past several years.
        
               | milosmns wrote:
               | Is it related to Android though? I read somewhere/thought
               | that it is primarily the Google Maps cars recording WiFi
               | data and not phones). Europe wouldn't be covered at all
               | if it was coming from the phones, right? (GDPR)
               | 
               | I mean, you can have a street full of iPhones - which I
               | assume is a regular occurrence in USA, where people trust
               | Apple - and still Google Maps on iPhone would guess well
               | enough where you are. For example, I'm far away from the
               | street and Google hasn't passed here recently, so my
               | WiFi-based location is always way off (using Android). In
               | my other home (and vacation home in another country) it's
               | the opposite, because the cars have passed quite
               | recently.
               | 
               | The story checks out so far for me... but I am kinda lazy
               | to search for the source on this right now, so pls share
               | if you have it.
        
               | modeless wrote:
               | I believe this data mainly comes from phones, not street
               | view cars. There are about a million times more phones
               | out there than street view cars, and they all have GPS
               | and Wifi. Apple had this feature long before Apple Maps
               | was a thing, and they didn't license Street View data
               | from Google.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | Kucher wrote:
           | I have used your site to successfully spot Starlink trains
           | and the ISS several times. It's very well-designed and the
           | included street view overlay especially helps with knowing
           | where in the sky to look.
           | 
           | Thank you!
        
           | jgtrosh wrote:
           | I can't tell if the times are for my timezone?
        
             | modeless wrote:
             | Times are displayed in the time zone your device's clock is
             | set to. Unless you use the "Change Location" feature, in
             | which case local time zone of the selected location will be
             | used, with explicit time zone abbreviations shown.
        
         | dwringer wrote:
         | > At what point do they start breaking up into unrelated
         | orbits?
         | 
         | I can't speak with any authority, but in general a train of
         | satellites would likely be moving in an orbit with either the
         | apogee/perigee similar to the target orbits, but the other end
         | of the orbit being higher or lower. Each time the train reaches
         | the extremum at the target altitude, one of the satellites
         | thrusts to adjust the other side of its orbit to target, which
         | pushes it out of the pack.
         | 
         | The specifics may be so different as to make that explanation
         | totally wrong but it's probably not too far from the general
         | principle.
        
         | stvnbn wrote:
         | Have you tried to look at the objects not placed by humans?
        
       | daveslash wrote:
       | Previous Comment Threads:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24773462
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26309367
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Thanks! Macroexpanded:
         | 
         |  _LeoLabs: Low Earth Orbit Visualization_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31413373 - May 2022 (3
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _LeoLabs: low earth orbit visualization_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31180865 - April 2022 (1
         | comment)
         | 
         |  _Low Earth Orbit Visualization_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26309367 - March 2021 (93
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _Monitoring a high risk conjunction between two large defunct
         | objects in LEO_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24773462
         | - Oct 2020 (150 comments)
         | 
         |  _Low Earth Orbit Visualization_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22165645 - Jan 2020 (1
         | comment)
        
       | social_quotient wrote:
       | I wonder how much light is blocked by this stuff floating around?
       | Seems like there are parallel efforts to make atmospheric dust
       | while this is already up there.
        
       | ezconnect wrote:
       | Are the speed realtime? It seems they are really fast.
        
         | possiblydrunk wrote:
         | I think if you set speed to 1, it's realtime.
        
       | rajeshp1986 wrote:
       | How is this built? Is this built on d3.js? This reminded me of
       | old flash style plugins which we don't see any more.
        
         | runlevel1 wrote:
         | It's using Three.js[^1] with Photons[^2], and a number of other
         | interesting libraries for calculation like satellite-js[^3].
         | 
         | [1]: https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/
         | 
         | [2]: https://github.com/mkkellogg/Photons
         | 
         | [3]: https://github.com/shashwatak/satellite-js
        
         | sosodev wrote:
         | I don't know which framework they're using, if any, but this is
         | WebGL2. You can write fairly modern OpenGL code and run it in
         | the browser. :)
        
       | fidla wrote:
       | Doesn't work in Brave
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | We need "Space Roombas"(tm)
       | 
       | Starlink was first but what happens when a dozen companies
       | eventually want to put up their own 10,000 low-orbit satellites?
        
         | merely-unlikely wrote:
         | Starlink follows the common solution of having them deorbit and
         | burn up in the atmosphere at EOL. Competitors likely will do
         | the same.
         | 
         | Traffic management is an ongoing debate with the current
         | solution simply being ground based tracking and orbit
         | management.
        
         | NegativeLatency wrote:
         | Until your space roomba hits space debris going the opposite
         | direction and becomes even more space debris
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | How would that work? A rocket launches into orbit an unmanned
         | satellite capable of autonomously intercepting the orbit of
         | debris in order to collect it and then deorbit itself? Seems
         | extremely expensive for little benefit.
         | 
         | It's my understanding that atmospheric drag and orbital
         | perturbations due to the gravity of other celestial bodies
         | cause satellites to need station keeping maneuvers just to
         | avoid crashing into the Earth. So it seems to me that this
         | debris problem will eventually take care of itself.
        
       | NickC25 wrote:
       | That's really cool. I know this comment is low-effort, but I
       | don't really care - this type of real-time visualization is
       | really interesting and I want to see more of this sort of thing
       | going forward.
       | 
       | That said, the blue dots are "unknown" - what could those
       | possibly be? Not trying to be conspiratorial or anything, but is
       | it some sort of debris from classified operations or foreign
       | intelligence operations?
        
         | tullianus wrote:
         | Often you can figure out what spacecraft/rocket a piece of
         | debris came from with a good catalogue of orbits and some math
         | - these are labeled "Debris." Often you just can't - these are
         | labeled "Unknown."
         | 
         | The US Space Force does a lot of the object cataloging, and
         | they _occasionally_ will pretend one of their classified
         | satellites doesn 't exist, but there's only a handful of these.
        
           | 3pt14159 wrote:
           | > but there's only a handful of these.
           | 
           | Huge if true.
        
             | tullianus wrote:
             | Oh, there are plenty of US satellites with classified
             | payloads/missions; I just mean that most classified US
             | satellites DO have orbital elements listed in the Space
             | Force catalog.
        
               | aerostable_slug wrote:
               | I'd add that it would be pointless to try to hide a fair
               | number of them, given that they approach the size of
               | school buses (no joke -- the now-retired KH-9 was
               | nicknamed "Big Bird" for good reason) and can be imaged
               | on relatively consumer-ready optics. Some Russians made a
               | nice stink a few years ago by using (IIRC) laser
               | illumination to make some relatively high-res shots of
               | American recce sats.
               | 
               | The interesting aspects of them have to do with how far
               | off-axis they can function. This was the major
               | consequence of loss of the Morison leak of the KH-11
               | shots of a Soviet carrier to Jane's Defense Weekly -- the
               | image revealed how far off-axis it could image and some
               | clues to how it processed imagery.
        
               | bagels wrote:
               | Often not in the public catalog though.
        
         | maicro wrote:
         | I only saw one blue dot while looking around (briefly on a
         | laggy computer, so there are probably plenty of others):
         | "L6188942", which you can isolate in the view by searching for
         | it. https://www.n2yo.com/database/?id=81078#results shows there
         | are no results for the "NORAD ID" for that same object.
         | 
         | I don't have any domain knowledge here, so can't argue either
         | way, but one possibility I can imagine is it's a place holder
         | for "somebody launched something and we just don't have the
         | records yet". No clue how realistic that is, and I'd trust my
         | sibling comment's explanation more, but it wouldn't shock me if
         | it takes time for info to propagate.
        
       | gtirloni wrote:
       | Enable Debris and be shocked.
        
         | squarefoot wrote:
         | Most of those debris dots however aren't labeled; I wonder if
         | they are actual debris.
        
         | ourmandave wrote:
         | Try ground view with debris on.
         | 
         | It looks like Asteroids after you've shot them into 10,000
         | micro asteroids.
         | 
         | Just needs a UFO going pew-pew...
        
       | nerdponx wrote:
       | I don't really know what I'm looking at here, but it feels very
       | sci-fi and I'm into it.
       | 
       | I also wonder, how do they track so many objects? Who actually
       | tracks them? How much does it cost (energy, engineers) to
       | maintain the tracking systems?
       | 
       | Edit: Are these all _simulated_ orbits? Is there a big  "orbit
       | registry" somewhere? And what are the "beams"?
        
         | sizzzzlerz wrote:
         | The US Air Force, for one, is responsible for tracking
         | everything it sees. That generally means computing TLAs for
         | each object. Whether they release this info, I don't know.
        
           | evilotto wrote:
           | Space Force.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18th_Space_Defense_Squadron
        
           | tullianus wrote:
           | That capability was transferred to the Space Force recently.
           | They make their data publicly available here:
           | https://www.space-track.org/
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | tullianus wrote:
         | LEOlabs operates its own radar systems that point upwards-ish.
         | The "beams" you see are the fields of view of their radars.
         | When an object crosses that field of view going at orbital
         | speeds, LEOlabs tracks it and uses the partial trajectory
         | information to figure out the orbit of the object. From there,
         | it can potentially associate that object with existing objects
         | in its own and other databases (the US Space Force, which
         | operates its own radars, is one of the best-known).
         | 
         | It then sells that information to spacecraft operators, who may
         | be using the orbital information to determine if their
         | spacecraft has a risk of hitting another object in space, or to
         | figure out where their spacecraft are in the first place
         | (usually when they're not talking to the ground).
        
         | beardyw wrote:
         | I am pretty certain they must be dead reckoning the location
         | with occasional updates.
        
           | mlindner wrote:
           | That's how all space debris tracking works. Luckily orbits
           | are rather predictable paths, but there's still atmospheric
           | drag, lunar and solar gravity, non-uniform Earth gravity,
           | solar photon pressure and measurement imprecision to deal
           | with.
        
         | ahazred8ta wrote:
         | Is there a big orbit registry somewhere? Yes.
         | https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/osoindex/search-ng.jspx Each
         | individual object is observed every few weeks, and then they
         | estimate its current position with math and physics.
         | 
         | How do they track them? With big expensive radar systems,
         | mostly paid for by the military. It's an international
         | collaboration.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_domain_awareness#Systems
        
           | mlindner wrote:
           | LEOlabs operates and pays for their own radars. They're a
           | commercial company.
        
       | jcims wrote:
       | If the earth is 750 pixels wide in the default zoom, each pixel
       | is 10mi/16km. Scale image of the ISS would be roughly 1/150th of
       | a pixel.
        
         | jcwayne wrote:
         | Thank you for this. While the visualization is
         | useful/interesting, it frustrates me how often similar visuals
         | are used in news stories about space junk. Yes, it's a problem,
         | but using visuals like this without proper explanation
         | misrepresents it terribly.
        
           | jve wrote:
           | Yes, and they don't add footnotes. From visualization it
           | looks like crash is inevitable. But yeah, otherwise there
           | would be no visualization.
           | 
           | Think about it: they say 19334 objects are tracked. Imagine
           | that many cars or trucks in the world scattered all across.
           | Then extrude that to couple hundreds of kilometers. Would
           | that feel congested to you? 19334 new cars are being
           | manufactured in less than 2,5 hours...
        
             | oittaa wrote:
             | And that's before you add oceans and horizontal planes...
        
           | bagels wrote:
           | Those news stories would be a lot less interesting with a
           | black picture of space with a footnote that the satellites
           | are there, just too small to see.
        
           | ortusdux wrote:
           | I would love to see a visualization comparing orbital
           | traffic/debris with marine traffic.
        
           | orbital-decay wrote:
           | With orbital junk visualizations, relative size isn't that
           | important. What matters is collision probability. Low polar
           | sun-synchronous orbits where the remote sensing stuff
           | typically lives are super crowded, especially at the poles;
           | in contrast, GSO is a well kept orbit with low relative
           | velocities, and the dead stuff drifts away, so it's really
           | safe.
        
       | spacehunt wrote:
       | I guess this is US only? The site is horribly broken upon
       | loading. Only after using developer tools I discovered that all
       | scripts and assets return 403 - CloudFront configured to block
       | your country.
       | 
       | Edit: I'm in Hong Kong.
        
         | secondcoming wrote:
         | Worked for me in the UK.
        
       | hammock wrote:
       | How do you launch a satellite without risking running into one of
       | these things on the way up? Do you have to calculate the
       | trajectories of all of them individually?
        
         | iandanforth wrote:
         | Yes. But luckily computers are fast and the spaces between each
         | of those dots is (usually) pretty big.
        
         | chroma wrote:
         | Regarding launching and collisions: You mostly don't have to
         | worry about it. The visualization makes space look crowded, but
         | each satellite is over 150,000 times smaller than what is
         | visualized. Space is very very big and very very empty. LEO is
         | bigger than the surface of the earth and dozens of times
         | thicker than the earth's crust.
         | 
         | It only takes a few radar stations to track all the satellites,
         | and the US Space Force makes their data public.[1][2] Most
         | satellites don't have much in the way of maneuvering
         | capabilities, so you don't need continuous tracking, just
         | updates every few days or so.
         | 
         | 1.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Space_Surveillan...
         | 
         | 2. https://www.space-track.org/documentation#api
        
         | doikor wrote:
         | Yes they do know the trajectories so you put yours in a one
         | where it should not hit anything. Most modern satellites also
         | have engines so they can move on their orbit to dodge stuff if
         | needed. Also remember that space is 3 dimensional so you can be
         | at the same exact "spot" on this map but still be few
         | kilometers apart.
         | 
         | Also this visualization is kind of misleading as it makes the
         | satellites look way too big. In reality you could not even see
         | them from even from the closest zoom available.
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | Imagine if this was to scale and each of the satellites was a
       | giant floating city the size of Tokyo or LA? I wonder how many
       | centuries will pass before that becomes a reality.
       | 
       | It's sort of interesting that there's been a wonky steam punk
       | movie about battling cities roaming the Earth, gobbling each
       | other up, but none about the more plausible future where there
       | are battles between giant orbiting cities who pass their hated
       | rivals once every certain number of years.
        
       | rtanks wrote:
       | This is truly fascinating.
        
       | mortenjorck wrote:
       | If you enter "1" for the visualization speed, is that the actual
       | recorded velocities?
        
       | fnordpiglet wrote:
       | I've played kerbal space program for over 500 hours and I can
       | confirm LEO looks like this in my game.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | That's impressive but is your processor alright? PS4 Pro nearly
         | catches fire trying to simulate one modular space station.
         | 
         | Do you know if there's been any news on KSP2? At this point I'm
         | not sure it will ever happen.
        
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