[HN Gopher] Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hacker...
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       Former WSJ reporter says law firm used Indian hackers to sabotage
       his career
        
       Author : re_re
       Score  : 125 points
       Date   : 2022-10-15 18:23 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
        
       | mrfumier wrote:
       | If this "journalist" consider emails to be a safe way to
       | communicate, then he deserves to be fired.
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | This is an angle of the uneven distribution of wealth that you
       | seldom hear about. As long as there are rich and poor people, a
       | rich person can hire a poor person to do basically anything.
       | 
       | Overriding legality, decency, safety. Because the poor person
       | just needs the money that bad.
       | 
       | So you get people renting out their backyard as a toxic waste
       | dump. Or murdering people. Or breathing smog. Or selling
       | children. Crazy horrible stuff that no sane person would do.
       | Because they need the money.
       | 
       | And the rich guy is untouched.
       | 
       | So, to a significant degree, as long as there is rich and poor,
       | there is no law or morality. It reduces society to a dog-pit.
        
         | seibelj wrote:
         | An underappreciated negative aspect of equality is total lack
         | of enthusiasm and incentive.
         | 
         | As inequality is a guarantee - no two people are alike in any
         | aspect and neither are their abilities as an employee -
         | mandating (either by gun or union contract) lockstep equality
         | in payments and job security, the highest performers are
         | demoralized and put in the bare minimum or quit (if they can).
         | The result is the ever-increasing shitty quality of the firm
         | and its behavior. For modern examples see the NHS (bleeding
         | doctors and nurses to the private sector) and American public
         | schools in inner cities (highest global costs per student yet
         | abysmal results).
         | 
         | There are valid criticisms about inequality but the pros far
         | out way the cons.
        
           | dmix wrote:
           | I find that most people arguing for top-down redistribution
           | don't seem to care about if it makes everyone poorer as long
           | as "equality for everyone" is the modus operandi. They see it
           | as a moral imperative, the measurable outcomes and realities
           | of the economic systems always get second rate treatment.
           | 
           | It's always much, much easier to argue for 'fairness' and to
           | rail against the rich... than it is to be realistic and
           | accept that there will be very visible downsides but that
           | alternatives are much worse in practice.
           | 
           | Ditto with free speech, censorship is almost always a greater
           | evil, with small exceptions, but when you try to defend it
           | they try to pretend you only care about nazis/far-right.
           | Sometimes doing the right thing is not easy and yes - it
           | requires plenty of effort to weed out the assholes and wrong-
           | doers (which the courts are doing now by punishing the law
           | firms), but it's worth it in the end.
           | 
           | And you don't have to tolerate the bad guys just because you
           | didn't compromise societies freedoms and wealth to prevent
           | them from existing in the first place. There's more ways to
           | stop it than throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | another_story wrote:
           | This is mostly a strawman, since I don't see almost anyone
           | arguing for complete equality of pay, status or position,
           | merely that a handful of people shouldn't be able to
           | accumulate the wealth of small nations on the back of others.
           | 
           | In countries in Europe, and places in Asia, there are plenty
           | of examples where there is less inequality and the students
           | perform better.
        
           | ok_dad wrote:
           | Sounds to me like we should eliminate the idea that high
           | performance and achievement should be rewarded with wealth or
           | being raised above others. Perhaps it would be better if
           | people learned from a young age that achievement is its own
           | reward? Are we such animals that we need special treats in
           | order to do the right thing? I think it's a childish attitude
           | that if you don't get more cookies than someone else that
           | you'll throw down your work and have a tantrum.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | You are overlooking the "extreme" part of "extreme
           | inequality"
           | 
           | Bezos and Musk would work just as hard if they only had 10%
           | of the financial equity share in their companies that they
           | have today.
        
         | redanddead wrote:
         | Yeah and the problem is getting worse. sometimes it seems that
         | even institutions are trying to maximize human pain.
         | 
         | I thought of writing an economics book about this phenomenon.
         | 
         | I have no idea how we can fix this problem and hope someone
         | else can chime in
        
           | permo-w wrote:
           | the solutions are there, we implemented them in the post-war
           | era, and they worked, massively reducing inequality until
           | about the early to mid-1970s, where due to a number of
           | reasons, lots of Western economies slowed down, especially
           | the UK and the US, and the free-market Milton-Friedman-
           | inspired right got into power and more or less has been since
           | then. their policies creating overall growth, yes, but at the
           | expense of wage growth and (after an initial bump from
           | selling off public property) living standards.
           | 
           | as a related aside, if someone ever tells you that taxes are
           | at an all-time high so we must reduce them, take a look at
           | the top marginal tax rates in the UK and US in the mid-60s.
           | or corp tax back then
           | 
           | the way to actually solve these problems was told to us by
           | Keynes. the problem is that the political will is just not
           | there. that's where we need a solution. how do you circumvent
           | the capital-holding elite [to use a meaningless word]?
        
           | ssss11 wrote:
           | Individuals need better morals imo. The corporate entries of
           | this works however do everything for the benefit of the share
           | holder which isn't always the right moral thing.
        
             | permo-w wrote:
             | individuals can have all the morals they like. there are
             | always going to be sociopaths and opportunists in this
             | world, and corporations - and, as you point out, their
             | shareholders - benefit from hiring them. the improvement
             | must come from society as a whole. public organisation,
             | whether that's government, or unions, or even charities,
             | must have the balls to stand up to profit-mongering, and
             | properly regulate this mess
        
         | permo-w wrote:
         | this is a very salient way of explaining the need for wealth
         | redistribution in society. this doesn't necessarily mean
         | communism or socialism, but it should mean more Keynesian
         | economics. high taxes on the rich - including rich corporations
         | - and strong public spending in the right areas: education,
         | small businesses, healthcare, and safety nets so people feel
         | like they can take risks without having the fear of becoming
         | homeless
        
         | epicureanideal wrote:
         | I assume this has more to do with absolute poverty than
         | relative poverty. If a person is starving they'll do almost
         | anything to eat. If they're merely relatively poor, having an
         | old car instead of a new one, a small house instead of a large
         | house, it's unlikely they'd go to extremes.
        
           | PuppyTailWags wrote:
           | Relative poverty is also involved imo. Many people would go
           | to extremes to ensure their children and their loved ones are
           | guaranteed brighter economic futures. Life insurance
           | companies wouldn't both explicitly exclude suicide and also
           | do investigation to ensure a death wasn't suicide if it
           | people weren't willing to literally die to ensure a brighter
           | economic future for their dependents.
           | 
           | Hell, I live very comfortably, am not at risk of homelessness
           | or starvation. But there is a lot I would do for money that
           | guarantees the best start in life for my children, the best
           | end of life (medical care, treatments, etc) for my parents.
        
           | swayvil wrote:
           | Don't diminish it by choosing an innocuous characterization.
           | You see the range of it as clearly as the rest of us.
        
       | pempem wrote:
       | I'm not sure I understand the importance of these hackers being
       | Indian as opposed as from any other region?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | greggsy wrote:
         | Incidents and stories related to Indian hackers-for-hire have
         | been rising in the past couple of years. A few companies have
         | built a workable model out of it. It's relevant context from
         | the cyber security industry perspective, tangentially related
         | in this case.
        
         | puchatek wrote:
         | Maybe you missed this sentence while reading the article?
         | 
         | "Solomon's suit is the latest in a series of legal actions that
         | follows Reuters' reporting about hired hackers operating out of
         | India."
        
         | jotm wrote:
         | Law firm being cheap? Or Indians being dangerous, I guess...
        
         | sandGorgon wrote:
         | US and India have very enforceable bilateral cybercrime
         | treaties. And it is very well enforced on both sides.
         | 
         | The article makes it seem that India as a whole is operating in
         | some North Korea-ish way.
         | 
         | A US citizen can well complain to CERT-IN (https://www.cert-
         | in.org.in/) for any reported cybercrime with proper documents
         | and it will be treated as an enforceable crime.
         | 
         | In fact, quite funny considering the US Chambers of Commerce
         | have filed an appeal with CERT-IN that the compliance
         | requirements are very stringent
         | (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/cert-
         | in...)
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | Seems relevant to the difficulty in investigating and getting
         | any sort of justice.
        
         | ganoushoreilly wrote:
         | > https://archive.ph/YegWz
         | 
         | They're accusing a specific group of for hire hackers (BellTroX
         | and CyberRoot) in Delhi.
        
         | edge17 wrote:
         | My guess is it has to do with Reuters editorial positioning on
         | what's going on with Ukraine and Russia. I agree though, I
         | don't see the relevance.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | SynAck6 wrote:
         | I get your point, but I'm assuming it's more about the fact
         | that it's relatively cheap labour and difficult to investigate.
        
         | rosnd wrote:
         | It's mostly India where these hackers operate like real
         | companies with websites, offices, bank accounts, etc...
         | 
         | BellTroX is well known and the Indian government seems to
         | approve of their activities.
        
         | WFHRenaissance wrote:
         | 1. Foreign hacking groups are often beyond the reach of Western
         | law enforcement. If a domestic threat had been to blame here,
         | there would be legal/financial recourse for damage done. That's
         | not the case here. Implicit in this article is the report of a
         | new kind of warfare for which many Americans have no good
         | defense against.
         | 
         | 2. Standard editorial racism a la "The Oriental Threat".
        
           | 4oo4 wrote:
           | Is that also why this is a civil suit and not criminal
           | charges under the CFAA?
        
           | greggsy wrote:
           | I don't think number 2 is at play here - the use of Indian
           | hackers-for-hire has been topical in the cyber security
           | industry recently.
        
         | InCityDreams wrote:
         | 'Cus they were from India?
        
       | nier wrote:
       | It surprised me to read that reporters for the Wall Street
       | Journal communicate with their sources via email. That's
       | careless.
        
         | the_optimist wrote:
         | Maybe not careless, but not a good convention. Incidentally,
         | securedrop is set up only to communicate with specific
         | journalistic organizations. I'd be very hesitant to send
         | information to a journalistic org without an understanding of
         | who's involved. In no way have the vast majority of
         | journalistic orgs established the trust necessary to receive
         | leaks:
         | 
         | https://securedrop.org/directory/
        
         | 1letterunixname wrote:
         | securedrop, pastebin GPG communiques from coffee shop WiFi +
         | VPN, i2p, or something with a buffer between them and their
         | sources. Perhaps include journalism security hygiene similar to
         | foreign intelligence HUMINT and compartmentalization.
         | Journalists have to realize they don't know their adversaries
         | and should "fail-safe" to assume they include state actors and
         | megacorps with unlimited resources. To not do so is to
         | recklessly underestimate the threat.
        
           | iinnPP wrote:
           | Or just join the dark side as many have.
        
         | bredren wrote:
         | Reporters don't always get to pick and enforce the medium of
         | communication with sources.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | One thing that I should point out, is that he is not going after
       | the WSJ, for any impropriety in his firing. They are really the
       | ones that damaged his career.
       | 
       | So I suspect that there is more to this story than is apparent.
        
         | LatteLazy wrote:
         | I believe... In the USA you cannot sue your employer for firing
         | you unless it's for membership of a protected class or
         | whistleblowing. If your employer wants to fire you because it's
         | Thursday or they're just having a bad day or they don't like
         | something you wrote in an email, tough.
        
           | collegeburner wrote:
           | so you're talking about at-will employment and it's generally
           | the rule in America. however there are some states that have
           | a good faith rule where you can't terminate a employee for
           | malice. here's a map of which states are which:
           | https://www.paycor.com/wp-
           | content/uploads/2021/02/Employment...
           | 
           | i believe WSJ employs in NY state so this doesn't apply.
        
           | peyton wrote:
           | No, employment law is much more complicated than that.
        
         | harles wrote:
         | From what I can tell, there's not necessarily more. It's a
         | clear conflict of interest to do business with a source for a
         | story. Doesn't sound illegal, but certainly gives the
         | appearance of bias.
        
         | tedunangst wrote:
         | Or he believes he was justifiably fired, but would have been
         | able to get another job had the emails not been made public.
         | The Journal is not interfering in his future prospects.
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/YegWz
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-15 23:00 UTC)