[HN Gopher] Show HN: The Unix Pipe Card Game - teach kids basic ...
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       Show HN: The Unix Pipe Card Game - teach kids basic Unix commands
        
       Author : throwaway47292
       Score  : 177 points
       Date   : 2022-10-16 10:57 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (punkx.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (punkx.org)
        
       | EdSchouten wrote:
       | I'm not saying that this isn't a great way for people to
       | familiarize themselves with basic Unix shell commands. That said,
       | why would you want to teach this to _kids_?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | WhatIsDukkha wrote:
         | Kids are people too?
         | 
         | But yeah this type of thing was always fun for me when I was a
         | little guy.
        
         | throwaway47292 wrote:
         | Now with everything on the cloud, kids are growing more and
         | more disconnected with their computers, instead of the kid
         | making the computer do something, they do some magic sequence
         | of actions and sometimes things work, sometimes they dont.
         | 
         | Being able to type a command, give it some input and see its
         | output, I believe is the most fundamental way to interact with
         | the computer.
         | 
         | The basic concepts of files, folders, programs and processes
         | are getting more and more murky with every new iOS and windows
         | release, and yet, those are still the building blocks of
         | everything, they are just hidden by some obscure interfaces and
         | menus or are just plain inaccessible to the user.
         | 
         | UNIX Pipes are the most pure and useful way I know of how the
         | user interacts with the programs and how the programs interact
         | with each other passing their output to the other program's
         | input, and I think it illustrates how more complicated things
         | can be built.
        
       | mrashes wrote:
       | Oh man! Love it. Great Idea!
        
       | nixpulvis wrote:
       | This is brilliant. Every office should have this!
        
       | CaptainRefsmat wrote:
       | My first thought when I saw this was "stocking stuffer". It
       | sounds a little bit pricey for DIY, though. The Python game
       | sounded interesting, but my initial impression was that it would
       | be way too advanced for beginners. Am I missing something?
        
       | avsteele wrote:
       | Nice. Was trying to print out the programming set for my son, but
       | its too hard to read.
       | 
       | Can anyone get these to printout larger, and where the grey
       | comments are less washed out?
        
         | throwaway47292 wrote:
         | You can just generate the tiffs yourself with different colors,
         | border_color is the color of the border and the comments
         | https://github.com/jackdoe/programming-for-kids/blob/8d14a24...
         | 
         | (if you are talking about the programming time game)
        
       | dlg wrote:
       | Is the creator thinking of doing another printing? If not can
       | someone recommend a service that will print a high quality card
       | deck given the PDF?
        
         | throwaway47292 wrote:
         | I print with some professional card printing companies, the
         | pricing goes something like 10 decks, 500$, 50 decks 800$, 100
         | decks 1200$, and 300 decks 1500$ and then it continues to drop
         | 
         | Since I printed only 50, I think the price is too high, so I
         | would rather to give them for free than to charge unreasonable
         | price. If you are willing to pay the shipping cost send me an
         | email to b0000@fastmail.com, I still have few left.
        
           | OakNinja wrote:
           | Maybe you could run all the decks as a kit on kickstarter?
           | 
           | I would love to buy all of them as a set, and I believe a lot
           | of others would as well.
        
             | throwaway47292 wrote:
             | I am halfway done with the C deck, as we are switching to C
             | soon, and I will setup a kickstarter after, should be done
             | around December.
             | 
             | I want her to know why x[3] and 3[x] are the same thing.
             | int x[3];         2[x] = 5;              printf("%d %d\n",
             | 2[x], x[2])
             | 
             | A lot of people struggle with                   x = 5
             | y = 6              y = x              x = 7
             | print(y)
             | 
             | and                   x = [1,2]         y = [3,4]
             | y = x              x.append(5)         print(y)
             | 
             | There is something magical in understanding how the
             | computer uses its memory, its almost as if you walk out of
             | a mist.
             | 
             | I think it will be very valuable to have a set of 4 decks:
             | python, machine code, unix pipes and C, so that the decks
             | compliment each other. In the machine code deck there are
             | few cards that have pointers (e.g.
             | https://punkx.org/4917/play.html#43), and they can be used
             | to help with the C deck for example.
             | 
             | Then its LISP.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | You can get the 50 deck rate for even a single deck (and
           | there are often coupon codes) at
           | https://www.printerstudio.com/unique-ideas/blank-playing-
           | car... or https://www.artscow.com/photo-gifts/playingcards
           | 
           | Also, if you're trying to give this away, they both allow you
           | to share a link to your design so other people can buy the
           | cards direct.
           | 
           | ----
           | 
           | edit: the sites may seem cheezy, but they're probably
           | responsible for 95% of prototype card decks that professional
           | designers print.
           | 
           | For other excellent non-Chinese, Buy America options, there
           | are https://www.printplaygames.com/product-
           | category/prototypes/c... ,
           | https://www.thegamecrafter.com/make/pricing#Cards and
           | https://www.drivethrucards.com/joincards.php
        
         | rabf wrote:
         | A cheap laser engraver could work well here.
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | Would you need 2layered paper, with a different color
           | underneath? Or would engraving the words directly onto card
           | stock be legible?
        
       | patrickdavey wrote:
       | I would love a Kickstarter (or something similar) with this.
       | Would totally buy a nice set.
        
       | jdthedisciple wrote:
       | Looks nice, though my guess is it would be more appealing to kids
       | if it used more color, a bigger font size and a more "fun" font
       | family like Comic Sans perhaps.
       | 
       | Nice work though, would definitely consider this for my own kids.
        
         | ape4 wrote:
         | And a mascot - Pipey
        
         | blue1 wrote:
         | Please no. Doh't feed bad typography to kids.
         | 
         | (When I was a kid, I had access to good design examples. I
         | hated fonts "for kids". Also, because the essence of play is
         | simulation, and childish fonts ruin the game)
        
           | geraldwhen wrote:
           | Comic sans black on white is more readable than most copy
           | produced in modern web products.
           | 
           | Designers love grey on grey. I'll take comic sans any day.
        
             | zasdffaa wrote:
             | Font and font contrast are entirely orthogonal.
        
               | flobosg wrote:
               | Are they? Font contrast is a multifaceted concept that
               | encompasses not only color but other properties as well.
               | For instance, stroke weight and its modulation, which are
               | inherent to a typeface.
        
               | zasdffaa wrote:
               | Can you give a visual example where they're not? (other
               | than anti-aliasing round the edges)
        
               | flobosg wrote:
               | See https://medium.com/alex-couch-s-portfolio/type-
               | hierarchy-and... for some of them. The "blurry eye test"
               | mentioned there is related to the typographical term of
               | _color_ (see
               | https://bigelowandholmes.typepad.com/bigelow-
               | holmes/2015/04/... and
               | https://practicaltypography.com/color.html) which is
               | affected, among other things, by the actual shape of the
               | glyphs. Font contrast has little to do, if anything at
               | all, with anti-aliasing.
        
               | SamBam wrote:
               | To be fair, though, the first comment that referred to
               | contrast was clearly talking only about color, and had
               | nothing to do with "topography contrast."
               | 
               | The original comment was
               | 
               | > Designers love grey on grey. I'll take comic sans any
               | day.
               | 
               | These _are_ two orthogonal features. It 's like saying
               | "fashion today is really into high waists, but I'll take
               | denim any day."
        
               | flobosg wrote:
               | > the first comment (...) was clearly talking only about
               | color
               | 
               | That comment explicitly mentions a typeface (Comic Sans).
        
               | geraldwhen wrote:
               | They're not. The people asking for specific font faces
               | for brand or accessibility reasons are the same people
               | who design apps and websites with text I can't read.
               | 
               | In this case, click the post link. It's black text on a
               | white background. Comic sans would work fine, and it
               | would be better than a monospaced font added for some
               | nostalgia for a time when fonts could not be kerned.
        
               | zasdffaa wrote:
               | I see. You're clearly knowledgeable in this area and my
               | naively used terminology has misled you. In terms of
               | contrast I'm talking about the simple stuff "Contrast is
               | the difference in luminance..."
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_(vision) whereas
               | you're talking of something typographical I was unaware
               | of. Sorry for the confusion.
        
               | flobosg wrote:
               | In the end, font contrast also involves the simple stuff,
               | but the difference in perceived luminance depends on more
               | than just foreground and background colors.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | Kids don't like comics fonts?
        
             | Shared404 wrote:
             | Not when they'ee out of place.
             | 
             | Any time I've worked with kids older than ~8, they'll
             | gravitate away from comic or obviously "kid focused" fonts,
             | and more towards "cool" fonts.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | While I wouldn't advocate for Comic Sans, monospace isn't
           | exactly good typography either.
        
           | throwamon wrote:
           | > When I was a kid, ... I hated fonts "for kids"
           | 
           | So you were a snob since you were a child. Got it.
           | 
           | Please stop gatekeeping subjective matters.
        
       | Zhyl wrote:
       | There's a typo on the instructions page. The example has 'rises'
       | but the rest of the explanation uses 'raises'
       | 
       | I love this as a concept, though.
       | 
       | I think if I were to expand this I'd maybe have pre-defined
       | strings for the greps, cards with results on, number pre-selected
       | etc. This makes it more of a 'find the card' or 'matching' game
       | than a problem solving game, but it would make it more kids-card-
       | gamey
        
       | loonster wrote:
       | You should add this game to boardgamegeek. They will also host
       | the files for you if you want.
        
         | pluc wrote:
         | Doesn't seem to be a problem for OP since the files are
         | available on GitHub [1] but they choose to leave downloads up
         | on their domain.
         | 
         | 1: https://github.com/jackdoe/programming-for-
         | kids/tree/master/...
        
           | throwaway47292 wrote:
           | I do that so there is no tracking, I want people to be able
           | to download the pdfs without microsoft's knowledge :)
        
       | ajot wrote:
       | Is there any way you could/would change the license from ND to
       | something else allowing derivatives? I would love to see
       | translations of these!
        
         | throwaway47292 wrote:
         | Sorry, I copied ND and NC by mistake, I just pushed
         | https://github.com/jackdoe/programming-for-kids/commit/8d14a...
         | to move to CC-BY-4.0 (removing NC and NC)
        
       | wodenokoto wrote:
       | I love Unix pipes and I love the immense computational power you
       | can achieve through streaming pipelines. You hear stories of
       | people processing terabytes of data faster and cheaper than a
       | distributed cloud solution, by the virtue of Unix pies[1].
       | 
       | But I don't really see them in any other environment. I can't
       | think of anything that uses something similar except for big,
       | distributed data processing pipelines like Apache Beam.
       | 
       | Where's the Python with streaming pipelines?
       | 
       | [1] https://livefreeordichotomize.com/posts/2019-06-04-using-
       | awk...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Zhyl wrote:
         | This is one of the things that I think Perl (still) does really
         | well. It has flags to allow for command-like one liners and has
         | built in things (like the diamond operator) that make it very
         | quick and easy to write 'filter' scripts that read STDIN and
         | print to STDOUT.
         | 
         | Python can do these things, but they aren't very pythonic and
         | they don't feel as natural/intuitive.
        
       | 1MachineElf wrote:
       | The photo at the bottom appears to be some small ergonomic
       | keyboard (maybe an Atreus?) built into stained wood along with a
       | screen. Perhaps it is a cyberdeck? Curious to know more.
        
         | throwaway47292 wrote:
         | Ah! I didnt mean to show it off, just my desk is a mess..
         | 
         | Yea its a cyberdeck I am building with hardwired Atreus
         | directly connected to pi zero gpios and using libuinput to make
         | a software keyboard, which works amazing btw.
         | 
         | I am making it to init directly into getty without login (with
         | busybox init), so it boots directly in usable /bin/bash in only
         | 2-3 seconds, and all the available programs are simple python
         | programs (ls, cp, mv, a basic line editor, touchtyping game,
         | hangman etc) and the keyboard itself is a simple python program
         | that basically scans the matrix and emits events to uinput. The
         | frame is from plywood.
         | 
         | And I am trying to make it like a 'scavenger hunt' experience
         | for my daughter, I will put special codes in various places in
         | the programs or on the file system with different difficulty,
         | and I can challenge her to find them.
         | 
         | The goal is to have < 50$ scavenger hunt computer kit (thats
         | why I cant afford teensy or something)
         | 
         | This is just the prototype to see how it feels to write code
         | using line editor, and also to test the effect of thinking of
         | the keyboard as a program with a nested for loop, on her
         | thinking about 'what happens when you press a key'
         | for r in rows:             send(r, 1)             for c in
         | cols:                  v = read(c)                  if v == 1:
         | # (r,c) is pressed             send(r, 0)
         | 
         | I just uploaded those to show you how it looks, but again, its
         | just to test the software and the screens size:
         | 
         | https://github.com/jackdoe/programming-for-kids/blob/master/...
         | https://github.com/jackdoe/programming-for-kids/blob/master/...
        
       | falcor84 wrote:
       | Looks a bit simulator to the online Unix Game, which I really
       | like:
       | 
       | https://www.unixgame.io/unix50
        
         | throwaway47292 wrote:
         | This is amazing! Thanks for sharing, I will try it with my
         | daughter.
        
       | petespeed wrote:
       | More from the author: https://github.com/jackdoe/programming-for-
       | kids
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-16 23:00 UTC)