[HN Gopher] 98.css - design system for building faithful recreat...
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       98.css - design system for building faithful recreations of Windows
       98 UIs
        
       Author : metadat
       Score  : 120 points
       Date   : 2022-10-23 21:41 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jdan.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jdan.github.io)
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | I give this a "10" on the UI usability scorecard.
        
         | clnq wrote:
         | The UIs around the year 2001 was fantastically accessible. The
         | recent obsession with flatness undid a lot of good practices.
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | I like the SerenityOS design choices. Looks pretty much like
           | a 2001-or-so UI, but adopting more modern design elements
           | (such as, e.g. breadcrumb navigation widgets) where they
           | actually make sense.
        
         | tomxor wrote:
         | Totally agree.
         | 
         | Unix Motif, Windows 3/95/98, Classic MacOS... they were all
         | highly usable. I crave the relentlessly, unashamed,
         | unambiguousness of these old UIs, compared to modern UI which
         | has devolved into something just as pretentious as the much
         | hated skeuomorphism stage, only at the other end of the
         | spectrum: extreme aesthetic minimalism at all cost (the user's
         | cost).
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | pshirshov wrote:
       | Cool. Does not support dark mode though.
        
         | girvo wrote:
         | Honest question, because I don't remember: does Windows 98?
         | 
         | I know you could edit the theme around to set the UI scheme
         | colours to a darker one, but as a kid I could never make it
         | look nice
        
           | dec0dedab0de wrote:
           | There were preset themes. Some were dark.
        
             | girvo wrote:
             | They certainly weren't really a "dark mode" in the modern
             | usage though I thought, they had ridiculously high contrast
             | still around parts of it?
             | 
             | I don't remember any of those dark presets being that dark
             | either except for the High Contrast one -- but this is
             | going to drive me nuts all day now so I'm going to dig
             | through a Win98 VM and see what I can find!
             | 
             | If there's one that's a good fit, might be a fun pull
             | request to write for this project :)
        
           | MisterTea wrote:
           | I do remember a high contrast mode. Quite garish with white
           | text on black background with bright blues and I think yellow
           | and red too.
           | 
           | I think this might be it: https://never-
           | obsolete.tumblr.com/post/180144131029/high-con...
           | 
           | edit: yellow and red is from win 3.1's hotdog mode:
           | https://blog.codinghorror.com/a-tribute-to-the-
           | windows-31-ho...
        
             | metadat wrote:
             | Speaking of yellow and red .. don't forget the venerable
             | and stunning HotDog Linux!
             | 
             | https://hotdoglinux.com/
        
         | laserdancepony wrote:
         | There was no dark mode fad in 1998. Different color schemes for
         | visually impaired people existed, but they were most often not
         | very aesthetic.
        
           | rietta wrote:
           | I remember Encarta being darkmode in 98. Maybe some of the
           | MSN stuff too. Even painted their own titlebars differently.
        
           | ranger_danger wrote:
           | it's not a fad.
        
         | raydiatian wrote:
         | DarkReader extension (available on all browsers) makes
         | everything have DarkMode. Unless you're visiting a website
         | designed by <canvas /> loving sadists, then you'll need a
         | welding helmet.
        
       | Etesam wrote:
       | I created a browser extension using this library!
       | https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/xp-newtab/ncfmloga...
       | 
       | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/xp-newtab/
        
       | whatwhatwhat_ wrote:
       | why would anyone want to resurrect that terrible operating
       | system? that's the bar with which crappy software is measured
       | against
        
         | raydiatian wrote:
         | I can imagine this making the internet a little less scary to
         | some legacy users who are still working with '98 tech (you
         | would be horrified at how many there are).
        
         | atoav wrote:
         | Consider that for some people that _terrible operating system_
         | might have been the first system the have ever used, maybe as a
         | kid.
         | 
         | I (an avid linux user who spends more time in the terminal than
         | on a UI) certainly recall that my first contact with any
         | computer with a keyboard was Windows 95. It was a complete
         | mystery to me. The fascination that unexplainable object had on
         | a 7 year old certainly had an effect on my life.
         | 
         | And guess what I remember? That grey interface with the blue
         | title bar.
         | 
         | So as crappy as it might have been, as ethically unsound as the
         | company who made it might have behaved themselves, the visual
         | likeness of the system of my childhood tingles some old
         | memories. And that is not even remotely odd. People can be
         | nostalgic for literally everything, because we do not long for
         | the old artifacts themselves, but for the feelings, friends and
         | times we might have had when they were around.
         | 
         | For some of us the grey windows of Microsofts operating system
         | have gained symbolic value beyond the aesthetical or functional
         | qualities inherent to the system itself.
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | When it comes to look and feel specifically, these days it's
         | not rare for websites and even apps to use styling such that
         | it's impossible to tell a link from a label, and either from a
         | button - everything is flat, and color differences are often
         | deliberately minimal. That was not a problem in Win98 days.
        
         | ranger_danger wrote:
         | nostalgia.
        
       | ranger_danger wrote:
       | I wouldn't really call this "faithful", I have yet to see actual
       | pixel-perfect recreations of any Windows UI in any form
       | whatsoever, but I'd love to see one.
        
         | prezjordan wrote:
         | I would
        
           | metadat wrote:
           | ^ @prezjordan is the creator of 98.css, FYI :)
        
       | ranger_danger wrote:
       | https://github.com/andersevenrud/retro-css-shell-demo
       | 
       | https://github.com/arturbien/React95
       | 
       | https://github.com/botoxparty/XP.css
       | 
       | https://github.com/Gioni06/terminal.css
       | 
       | https://github.com/jianzhongli/csswin10
       | 
       | https://github.com/khang-nd/7.css
       | 
       | https://github.com/kristopolous/BOOTSTRA.386
       | 
       | https://github.com/lachsfilet/Renkbench
       | 
       | https://github.com/lolstring/window98-html-css-js
       | 
       | https://github.com/micah5/PSone.css
       | 
       | https://github.com/nostalgic-css/NES.css
       | 
       | https://github.com/npjg/classic.css
       | 
       | https://github.com/robbiebyrd/platinum
       | 
       | https://github.com/bryanbraun/after-dark-css
       | 
       | https://github.com/npjg/new-dawn
       | 
       | https://github.com/ritenv/retro-desktop
       | 
       | https://github.com/RoelN/c64css3
       | 
       | https://github.com/sakofchit/system.css
       | 
       | https://github.com/vinibiavatti1/TuiCss
       | 
       | https://code.divshot.com/geo-bootstrap/
        
       | dhiggdyjkb wrote:
       | does a similiar thing exist for old macos style?
        
       | MitPitt wrote:
       | Also see XP and 7 versions: https://botoxparty.github.io/XP.css/
       | https://khang-nd.github.io/7.css/
        
         | warning26 wrote:
         | I'm a bit disappointed by the XP version's use of bitmaps for
         | certain elements; it's completely possible to achieve the XP
         | look purely with box-shadow properties.
        
         | jw1224 wrote:
         | I've always been a Mac guy, but there's no denying XP really
         | stood the test of time.
        
       | panzi wrote:
       | Very cool! I want a Windows 2000 version of it. I think that was
       | the nicest looking Windows. It is very close to this, but with a
       | slightly different main GUI color. Not a complete gray, but ever
       | so slightly beige. Makes it more pleasant to the eye, IMO.
        
         | warning26 wrote:
         | Ideally it should support easy recoloring to match any of the
         | exciting Windows classic themes! _Hotdog Stand_ support when?
         | 
         | Also, agree that Win2000's color scheme was the best looking
         | iteration of the classic Windows look.
        
       | retrocryptid wrote:
       | It's disturbing how much I love this. Also Licensed under a MIT
       | license. Very Nice.
        
         | raydiatian wrote:
         | Can Microsoft sue for something like this? Ethically I don't
         | think they should. But, can they?
        
           | pmalynin wrote:
           | You can sue anyone for anything, this is America.
        
           | massung wrote:
           | IANAL, but I think not.
           | 
           | I think this because there have been a plethora of tools and
           | libraries over the decades (think Tk, WxWidgets, and similar)
           | that emulate the native look-and-feel of the OS and I believe
           | a company has to defend it's IP/copyrights otherwise it
           | implicitly loses the ability to do so in the future.
           | 
           | See: https://www.varnumlaw.com/insights/enforce-your-
           | intellectual...
           | 
           | Consequently, this is why companies will so often be quick to
           | "attack" random side projects people do targeting their IP
           | (even very old IP). It isn't necessarily out of a malicious
           | desire so much as a legal requirement. If they don't then a
           | "serious" company can follow suit and then they have no
           | ability to fight it.
           | 
           | Edit: to be clear, obviously they _can_ sue.
        
       | grenoire wrote:
       | Honestly full-assed implementation. Font hinting is a bit odd
       | with a green sheen on Firefox Win 10...
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | There are some minor discrepancies. Window titlebars weren't
         | gradient in Win98 - that came in Win2k and WinME. The combobox
         | dropdown has rounded ages (Win11 + Edge) and there's a gap
         | between it and the textbox. The tree view has different widths
         | for "+" and "-" on the nodes, and neither is properly aligned
         | with the dotted lines of the tree.
         | 
         | The biggest giveaway, though, is that you can drag to highlight
         | text pretty much anywhere.
        
           | Kranar wrote:
           | Windows 98 used a gradient for its title bar [1]:
           | 
           | https://microsoft.fandom.com/wiki/Windows_98?file=W98-2.png
        
       | tshaddox wrote:
       | Did Windows 98 really have such laughably low contrast between
       | text and that dark grey background?
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | Yes!
        
       | prezjordan wrote:
       | Hey HN - author here.
       | 
       | This was my burnout recovery project in April of 2020. Very much
       | a labor of love and a surprising way to realize I still liked
       | programming. I wrote some scattered thoughts here [0]
       | 
       | I also "run" this project quite differently than I usually do -
       | when I receive a pull request instead of merging it I do a quick
       | glance through the user's github to make sure they're not a
       | spammer before giving them _commit access_ and asking them to
       | merge their own PR [1]. It has worked wonders.
       | 
       | [0]: https://notes.jordanscales.com/ffa53b57
       | 
       | [1]: https://twitter.com/jdan/status/1528026508564078593
        
         | RichardCNormos wrote:
        
       | hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
       | Cool! Wish we can do this easily with QT in Win10.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-23 23:00 UTC)