[HN Gopher] Only virgin type of olive oil consumption reduces th...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Only virgin type of olive oil consumption reduces the risk of
       mortality: study
        
       Author : nokcha
       Score  : 107 points
       Date   : 2022-10-24 19:28 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
        
       | danjoredd wrote:
       | Good thing I put that in practically all my food anyway. I always
       | thought extra virgin olive oil tastes better than vegetable oil
        
         | klodolph wrote:
         | Virgin olive oil has a strong flavor and very low smoke point,
         | which makes it unsuitable for most types of food. You may like
         | the taste of olive oil better than vegetable oil, but it's kind
         | of weird to taste olive oil in most foods. Kind of like how you
         | wouldn't but blue cheese on everything, or truffles on
         | everything, or bacon on everything, even if you like the taste
         | of those things--they taste a bit weird when combined with the
         | wrong dish.
         | 
         | Vegetable oil is chosen in situations where you don't want to
         | taste it at all, where it's just used to cook the food.
        
           | OgAstorga wrote:
           | Vegetable oil smokes at a very similar point than olive oil
           | [1]. The only reason people uses vegetable oils is 1. it's
           | cheap. 2. does not add extra flavors.
           | 
           | [1] https://blog.mountainroseherbs.com/hs-
           | fs/hubfs/CulinaryOil_S...
        
           | leloup_legarou wrote:
           | > Virgin olive oil has a strong flavor and very low smoke
           | point, which makes it unsuitable for most types of food.
           | 
           | Extra virgin olive oil (EVOO) doesn't have a "very low smoke
           | point". This table on wikipedia gives the smoke point of
           | "Extra virgin, low acidity, high quality" EVOO at 207degC/405
           | degF:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_point#Temperature
           | 
           | The same page gives standard home cooking temperatures as
           | follows:                 Pan frying (saute) on stove top
           | heat: 120 degC (248 degF)       Deep frying: 160-180 degC
           | (320-356 degF)       Oven baking: Average of 180 degC (356
           | degF)
           | 
           | So premium-quality EVOO has a smoke point comfortably above
           | the temperatures where most people will cook with it. I
           | suspect the idea that EVOO has a low smoke point comes from
           | confusion between extra virgion olive oil and "extra virgin"
           | olive oil (i.e. between the real deal and the stuff sold in
           | its place). Anyway anecdotally, me, both my grandmothers, my
           | mother, and everyone else I know has been cooking with EVOO
           | for ages and I've never heard of anyone actually managing to
           | make it burn (though I've certainly burned the _food_ cooking
           | in it). And we cook most, or rather, all, types of food in
           | it.
           | 
           | You're perfectly right though that EVOO has a strong flavor.
           | That's the whole point.
        
           | exclusiv wrote:
           | I use avocado or safflower oil. Avocado has the highest smoke
           | point at 520 degrees F.
           | 
           | If cooking with oil, everything cooked with safflower oil
           | tastes better to me.
           | 
           | https://homecookworld.com/cooking-oils-smoke-points/
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | > or truffles on everything, or bacon on everything,
           | 
           | Speak for yourself there buddy
        
             | klodolph wrote:
             | I somehow survived the "let's put bacon on everything"
             | craze of the 2010s but it was not a good time.
        
               | zwieback wrote:
               | so, the 2020s appear to be shaping up as the "truffles on
               | everything" decade and I hate it. Maybe I'd enjoy a real
               | truffle here and there but the truffle flavoring I
               | usually encounter is offensive to my tongue.
        
               | quesera wrote:
               | Truffles, I can handle.
               | 
               | But I'm still scarred from the 1990s "put capers in
               | everything" era.
        
               | bcrosby95 wrote:
               | I even found bacon flavored chapstick at a bacon novelty
               | store back then.
        
           | Darmody wrote:
           | Maybe it's not a bad idea to remove all the foods that need
           | unhealthy vegetable oils.
        
           | danjoredd wrote:
           | IDK man. Maybe its because I mostly just eat fish and
           | veggies, but I find that it works well for the types of
           | dishes I cook.
        
       | oldgradstudent wrote:
       | Virgin olive oil is more expensive.
       | 
       | The most important, and well known confounding factor in
       | observational health research is socioeconomic status - rich
       | people live longer than poor people.
       | 
       | This research attempted to control for it in a limited fashion,
       | but that's not nearly enough.
        
       | leobg wrote:
       | Risk of mortality? I thought mortality was a fact. :)
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Clearly, those are just alternative facts.
        
       | arcticfox wrote:
       | I'm kind of bad at parsing these studies so maybe someone can
       | help:
       | 
       | Did they control for people opting for virgin OO having other
       | confounding lifestyle factors that would cause the effect?
       | 
       | I certainly lean towards virgin OO when I'm feeling that I want
       | to be healthy.
        
         | vineyardmike wrote:
         | > I certainly lean towards virgin OO when I'm feeling that I
         | want to be healthy.
         | 
         | Fwiw the use case for non-virgin olive oil is different. You'd
         | want to use non virgin in anything that involves heat as it
         | won't burn or break down as easily.
         | 
         | For anything that you'll taste (eg dressings) you'd want an
         | extra virgin oil that will have more of the plants' taste.
         | Could be worth splurging on nice oil for dressings/dipping oil
         | but don't waste it on anything that'll be heated.
        
           | nicoburns wrote:
           | I feel like you always want virgin olive oil. Just don't hear
           | it too high. If you have uses that require high heat then use
           | a completely different oil like coconut.
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | It seems like most olive oil is labeled "extra virgin". But
         | there are definitely issues of authenticity (see:
         | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10955085-extra-virginity )
        
         | oldgradstudent wrote:
         | Virgin olive oil is more expensive.
         | 
         | The most important confounding factor in observational research
         | is socioeconomic status - rich people live longer than poor
         | people.
         | 
         | This research attempted to control for it in a limited fashion,
         | but that's not enough.
        
       | ilkke wrote:
       | Virgin type of consumption? Risk of mortality?
       | 
       | Is it me or is that title extremely oddly phrased?
        
       | some_furry wrote:
       | This isn't surprising; cold-pressed virgin olive oil has a much
       | lower oxidation rate than other vegetable oils
       | 
       | Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM
        
       | ucha wrote:
       | I get a couple of gallons of olive oil in a small village
       | directly from the press in November each year. It's not filtered
       | so it has a lot of particles in suspension and it goes bad
       | faster, maybe after a year or so. But it tastes nothing like
       | supermarket extra-virgin olive oil, the taste is so much more
       | concentrated.
       | 
       | Olive oil has a pretty short shelf life. The best way to get the
       | good stuff is to make sure you buy:
       | 
       | - the latest harvest (they're usually harvested in early fall)
       | 
       | - non-filtered
       | 
       | - stored in a dark bottle, somewhere cool (light oxidizes it)
       | 
       | - single origin (if it's not, then they're likely mixing old
       | rancid and new oils)
       | 
       | - first press, cold extracted
        
       | ryanwaggoner wrote:
       | Seeing a lot of comments about how supposedly a lot of EVOO sold
       | on store shelves isn't actually pure olive oil, and I'm curious
       | where this belief comes from. Any data or studies you can point
       | me to?
       | 
       | Here's an FDA report of 88 EVOO bottles purchased from
       | supermarkets that were tested, three of which were identified as
       | impure enough to possibly indicate they were adulterated:
       | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286479191_Authentic...
        
         | swalling wrote:
         | It's not "adulteration" so much as fraud by mixing it with
         | cheaper oils or labeling oil as "extra-virgin" when it's not.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil_regulation_and_adult...
        
           | ryanwaggoner wrote:
           | That's what "adulteration" means. From the study I
           | referenced:
           | 
           |  _" Three of the 88 samples labeled as EVOO failed to meet
           | purity criteria, indicating possible adulteration with
           | commodity oil and/or solvent-extracted olive oil."_
        
             | tradertef wrote:
             | 3 out of 88 is not that bad. If you read this thread
             | everyone is thinking most EVOO is adultered. If you buy
             | from a trustworthy company, you would most likely be ok.
             | 
             | We only use OO in our house and almost all of it from
             | Cosco.. Refined + 15% EV for cooking and Organic cold press
             | EV for salads and cold dishes.
        
       | deandublin wrote:
       | the main point of this comparison is - you should choose the best
       | quality food that you can - so unheated OO over the heated stuff,
       | for example. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
        
       | ozim wrote:
       | Italian mobs selling "virgin olive oil" likes that article.
       | 
       | My main point is that I am not able to tell real virgin olive oil
       | from scam one. From what I understand most of "virgin olive oil"
       | on supermarket shelves is scam.
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | Actually it is Extra Virgin that is the standard (at least in
         | EU - the US uses the name loosely)
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | I tend to think that the California grown/produced olive oil is
         | less likely to be adulterated vs OO from Spain and Italy.
        
           | simondw wrote:
           | Do you have evidence to support that?
        
             | UncleOxidant wrote:
             | Primarily because there are stricter requirements via FDA
             | on the US food supply. If a US producer gets caught
             | adulterating they're going to face legal issues that a
             | foreign producer will not face. Not saying it's not
             | possible that CA producers could be adulterating, but if
             | they get caught there will be consequences that an importer
             | won't face - the importer can just say they were trusting
             | their suppliers overseas.
             | 
             | Also found this (from 2010): "The research team found that
             | 69 percent of the imported oils sampled, compared with just
             | 10 percent of the California-produced oils sampled, failed
             | to meet internationally accepted standards for extra virgin
             | olive oil." https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/most-imported-
             | olive-oils-don%E2...
        
             | swalling wrote:
             | Adulteration of olive oil typically happens in
             | transit/shipping by wholesalers, not by producers. Spanish
             | or Italian olive farms aren't diluting with corn oil or
             | whatever during production on the farm/when pressing, it's
             | by aggregators who are buying and selling oil in bulk by
             | volume. So if you're buying olive made, processed, and
             | bottled by a single farm whose origin is local you're
             | structurally at less risk than a generic "Italian" oil or
             | one that says the country of origin could one of 3-4
             | countries. Also California has a mandatory sampling and
             | testing program https://www.oliveoilcommission.org/
             | 
             | If you want to go deep on the topic, this is a great read:
             | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10955085-extra-
             | virginity
        
           | nemetroid wrote:
           | When buying in the US, I assume that you mean.
        
         | spywaregorilla wrote:
         | Try finding bottles that explicitly list the acidity of the
         | oil. The good stuff is really low. Extra virgin is considered
         | .8% or less. I would shoot for something that explicitly lists
         | 0.3% or better.
        
       | lalaithion wrote:
       | Aka "Good job finding a class-correlate you didn't manage to
       | control for"
        
         | snissn wrote:
         | that's my gut reaction too, haven't dug into it though and
         | probably won't put in the time
        
         | leloup_legarou wrote:
         | If the study was done in the US, then maybe. But it was done in
         | Spain:
         | 
         | > 12,161 individuals, representative of the Spanish population
         | >=18 years old, were recruited between 2008 and 2010 and
         | followed up through 2019.
         | 
         | Where nobody can prepare food without olive oil. It's the law.
        
       | sul_tasto wrote:
       | How do we know that the olive oil we buy from the grocery store
       | is actually authentic? I thought most of the olive oil in the US
       | contains cheaper seed oils, just like most of the honey contains
       | corn syrup.
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | Adulteration of OO is definitely an issue. There's not a lot of
         | testing. I tend to think that if you buy CA grown/produced
         | olive oil it's more likely to be authentic.
        
         | gtirloni wrote:
         | If it says "Extra Virgin" it's supposed to be olive oil, cold
         | extraction, probably first press (leaving alone frauds). If it
         | doesn't (just says "olive oil"), it's probably olive oil mixed
         | with all sorts of other vegetable oils.
        
           | red_trumpet wrote:
           | > If it doesn't (just says "olive oil"), it's probably olive
           | oil mixed with all sorts of other vegetable oils.
           | 
           | Do they not have to declare the other ingredients on the
           | packaging?
        
             | gtirloni wrote:
             | > Do they not have to declare the other ingredients on the
             | packaging?
             | 
             | They do but it's the same with everything else: there are
             | definitions of what is something and sometimes they allow
             | unexpected ingredients or mixtures that we wouldn't have
             | expected.
             | 
             | I think milk or milk-based is one of those things. Same for
             | beef burger (if it's 62% beef than it's allowed to be caled
             | a beef burger, no matter if it tastes like cardboard).
        
             | zerocrates wrote:
             | In the US, yes. And if it's a mixture of olive and
             | something else they also just can't call it "olive oil" on
             | the front label either.
             | 
             | On the other hand that's just what's required. If nobody's
             | looking closely, who's to say what you're actually doing,
             | or what has happened from your upstream suppliers with or
             | without your knowledge?
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | Only buy from Costco.
        
       | GloriousKoji wrote:
       | Typically you're suppose to add "in mice" to the end of headlines
       | but in this case it's "in Spanish people".
        
       | UncleOxidant wrote:
       | There's so much rampant mis-labeling of olive oil (see [1]) in
       | many cases it's adulterated with other oils and in some cases
       | it's not actually virgin olive oil.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10955085-extra-virginity
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | If one tablespoon of virgin olive oil a day is reducing the
       | mortality risk to half, immagine the effect of two tablespoons of
       | virgin olive oil.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | Certain death.
        
       | OgAstorga wrote:
       | The less Linoleic Acid in your oil the better[1]. This image[2]
       | is a good reference. Also, and as opposed to common beliefs. You
       | can cook on olive oil[3]
       | 
       | [1] https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/2/e000898
       | 
       | [2]. https://www.doctorkiltz.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/LA-
       | in...
       | 
       | [3].
       | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092422442...
        
         | eltondegeneres wrote:
         | Your first link is from a "carnivore diet" blog, which seems to
         | mostly sell their own line of supplements.
        
           | OgAstorga wrote:
           | The dietary preferences of the owner of the site does not
           | alter the validity of the information. The image is just a
           | reference.
           | 
           | Here's the source of that table https://media.johnwiley.com.a
           | u/product_data/excerpt/06/04713...
        
             | CommieBobDole wrote:
             | I don't think that article is the source of the table -
             | there's a similar table, but a lot of the items are
             | different and the numbers mostly don't match.
             | 
             | Also that article seems to be primarily concerned with the
             | health benefits of linoleic acid and how to increase
             | consumption of it.
        
         | NikolaNovak wrote:
         | Wait, less... or more? :|
         | 
         | https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2014/11/05/diet...
        
           | OgAstorga wrote:
           | less[1]. this video[2] is not the best reference but a very
           | good summary on the industrialized oils and they alternatives
           | 
           | [1] https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/2/e000898
           | 
           | [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQmqVVmMB3k
        
           | scifibestfi wrote:
           | "Instead of using butter, cream, lard, and other animal fat
           | as the primary source of culinary fat, one should use liquid
           | vegetable oils like soybean, corn, olive, and canola oils for
           | cooking, on salad and at the table."
           | 
           | Uh...
        
             | OgAstorga wrote:
             | We now know that this statement was false. Sadly, to the
             | detriment of hundreds of millions.
        
         | jamal-kumar wrote:
         | It's cookable at lower temperatures but if you're going
         | anywhere north of "5" on the stove chances are it's going to
         | burn hard enough to stick to the pan
        
           | OgAstorga wrote:
           | True, anything above 190 Co (375 Fo) and it's going to start
           | smoking
        
       | senand wrote:
       | You simply won't be able to find world-class olive oil in
       | supermarkets or on amazon. I can wholeheartedly recommend
       | https://villahumbourg.it/en-index.html, 100% oil from one farm in
       | Tuscany, for sure no Mafia infiltration and the new oil is just
       | being harvested these days.
       | 
       | How I know that? It's from my mother, who I just visit for my
       | holidays. I know I'm biased, but it's just the truth ;-)
        
         | nikita2206 wrote:
         | Didn't you just bring down her website?
        
         | flanbiscuit wrote:
         | I did a wine tour in Tuscany a few years ago and most of the
         | small vineyards also grew olives and made olive oil and it was
         | the best olive oil I ever had. I wish I had bought more. Thanks
         | for the link, I might be ordering some soon. grazie!
        
       | vixen99 wrote:
       | A useful test for olive oil is its taste when swallowed. If it
       | produces a hot sensation in the throat this is due apparently to
       | oleocanthal, a major polyphenol in the oil. Oleocanthal has been
       | cited in numerous publications as having anti-inflammatory and
       | anti-cancer properties.
       | 
       | https://www.jneurosci.org/content/jneuro/31/3/999.full.pdf
       | 
       | [Unusual Pungency from Extra-Virgin Olive Oil Is attributable to
       | Restricted Spatial Expression of the Receptor of Oleocanthal]
        
       | Matthewiiv wrote:
       | It's almost as if human nutrition and mortality are complex
       | systems and a single foodstuff doesn't have any significant
       | effect.
       | 
       | Not only that but surely nobody is surprised that the people who
       | can afford the more expensive version of a product live longer.
       | 
       | Why have we not given up on this nonsense idea of miracle foods
       | already?
        
         | deandublin wrote:
         | did you read it?
         | 
         | it just says unheated OO is better than the heated stuff.
         | Pretty obvious that heating food can kill the good stuff, if
         | there is good stuff in it to start with, that it.
        
       | jpfdez wrote:
       | https://www.oleoestepa.com/en/what-is-the-extra-virgin-olive...
        
       | dfried wrote:
       | Lots of people are going to respond to this with comments about
       | how most olive oil in the US is fake.
       | 
       | This is based on an old study [1] and is no longer the case.
       | 
       | It's now FUD perpetuated by DTC brands as part of their
       | marketing. [2]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.aboutoliveoil.org/uc-davis-olive-center-olive-
       | oi...
       | 
       | [2] https://www.oliveoiltimes.com/briefs/brightland-drops-
       | claims...
        
       | thecoppinger wrote:
       | Edit: reading this back, it sounds somewhat like an attempt to
       | shill a product. So, disclaimer: I have absolutely no affiliation
       | with Jeff or the Cultured Oils, I'm just fascinated by it.
       | 
       | Serial entrepreneur Jeff Nobbs recently launched a new product in
       | the food oil space: Cultured Oil*
       | 
       | I came across his writings* on the perils of seed oils earlier
       | this year and it radically changed the way I eat.
       | 
       | After becoming aware of the danger high linoleic acid diets pose,
       | as well as the climate implications of other oils, Jeff's
       | Cultured Oil looks incredibly impressive, albeit I haven't had
       | the chance to try it yet as they don't ship to New Zealand.
       | 
       | In summary, from their FAQ:
       | 
       | "Cultured Oil is cooking oil made by fermentation, resulting in
       | high levels of healthy fats, a small environmental footprint, a
       | clean taste, and a high smoke point!
       | 
       | Fermentation describes the process of microorganisms (or
       | "cultures") consuming natural sugars and converting those sugars
       | into entirely new foods. Just as there are sourdough and wine
       | cultures, there are also oil cultures. An oil culture converts
       | sugar into the healthy delicious fats that make up Cultured Oil.
       | 
       | Cultured Oil is primarily monounsaturated fat, the heart-healthy
       | and heat-stable fat also found in olive and avocados.
       | 
       | In every serving of Cultured Oil (1 Tbsp - 14 grams), there are
       | about 13 grams of monounsaturated fat, 0.5 grams of saturated
       | fat, and 0.4 grams of polyunsaturated fat. Olive oils and avocado
       | oils contain between 55-83% monounsaturated fat, and up to 21%
       | polyunsaturated fat. Cultured Oil contains over 90%
       | monounsaturated fat and less than 4% polyunsaturated fat
       | 
       | * https://www.zeroacre.com/
       | 
       | * https://www.jeffnobbs.com/posts/what-causes-chronic-disease
        
         | alliao wrote:
         | there're plenty of nz olive oil growers pay them a visit and
         | buy during pressing season (May-June)
        
         | leloup_legarou wrote:
         | > Edit: reading this back, it sounds somewhat like an attempt
         | to shill a product.
         | 
         | I don't know about that, but you may be right to be suspicious.
         | In my experience, most research into the health effects of
         | extra virgin olive oil is funded by Spanish, Italian or Greek
         | institutions. For example, the affiliations of the authors of
         | the study in the article above are mainly to Spanish
         | institutions.
        
         | lumb63 wrote:
         | I recently saw cultured oil as well and have been doing some in
         | depth research on adjacent topics since I have a family history
         | of CVD. How has his writing changed how you eat, and have you
         | noticed any differences in health metrics?
        
         | blastro wrote:
         | Thanks for posting about this. I bought two bottles of the
         | cultured oil gonna see how it works out. I wouldn't have
         | learned about this without your post.
        
       | clumsysmurf wrote:
       | Is there something for Olive Oil like IFOS for fish oil?
        
         | jelsisi wrote:
         | The IOC (International Olive Counsel)
         | https://www.internationaloliveoil.org/
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | metroholografix wrote:
       | Greek olive oil is considered the best in the world and doesn't
       | suffer from Mafia infiltration which is a huge problem in Italy
       | [1] [2] [3].
       | 
       | Here is some good quality Greek olive oil available in US,
       | reasonably priced, that you can buy without fear of adulteration
       | or other shadiness:
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Terra-Creta-Kolymvari-Protective-Desi...
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Iliada-Extra-Virgin-Olive-Liter/dp/B0...
       | 
       | The Greek extra virgin olive oil sold at Trader Joe's is also
       | very good.
       | 
       | Avoid the - Whole Foods & 365 branded - Greek EVOO at Whole
       | Foods: it was rancid every single time I've tried it.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-crime-
       | food/italian-...
       | 
       | [2] https://www.oliveoiltimes.com/olive-oil-basics/mafia-
       | olive-o...
       | 
       | [3]
       | https://www.forbes.com/sites/ceciliarodriguez/2016/02/10/the...
        
         | amluto wrote:
         | I wasn't aware you could buy anything from Amazon at all
         | without fear of adulteration.
        
           | jmainguy wrote:
           | Yeah I would never buy anything electronic, or anything to
           | consume or put on my body from amazon.
        
             | Eisenstein wrote:
             | If you actually want cheap highly reproducable electronics
             | amazon is fine. It is alibaba but twice as expensive for an
             | order of magnitude reduction in shipping speed.
        
         | stavros wrote:
         | Greek here, never heard of Terra Creta or Iliada, but the PDO
         | stamps look legit (they are from famous oil-producing areas).
        
         | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
         | Thank you! The prices aren't even that bad.
        
         | surfsvammel wrote:
         | Nice. How would one go about finding such suggestion for
         | consumption in Europe?
        
           | brnt wrote:
           | Visit tour local Greek deli? They're not very numerous, but
           | they're out there.
        
           | metroholografix wrote:
           | Most EU supermarkets should have some Greek EVOO (Tesco in UK
           | and Jumbo in Netherlands have Iliada, Sainsbury's has a
           | selection of Greek olive oils). Alternatively, find a Greek
           | deli/market/imports place, they are in every country I've
           | been to in northern Europe. They typically supply restaurants
           | and should have a good selection of foods.
           | 
           | Look for PDO / Agrocert stamps.
        
       | bgribble wrote:
       | On urban US supermarket shelves virtually every bottle of olive
       | oil advertises itself as "virgin" or the "even better" varieties
       | ("extra virgin", "first cold pressed" etc). I have read that many
       | of these labels are hogwash, and that the contents of your
       | typical supermarket "extra virgin olive oil" bottle pretty often
       | include adulterants like palm, canola, or sunflower oil.
       | 
       | I can definitely taste the diff between supermarket stuff and
       | super-premium olive oil where I know who the importer is (in New
       | York City, my go-to is the house brand of a restaurant called
       | Frankie's 457 Spuntino who imports their own oil). But I'm not
       | sure whether that reflects the quality of olives/processing, or
       | is an indicator of "real" vs "fake" olive oil...
        
         | tiagod wrote:
         | I live in Portugal where most olive oil is good quality.
         | 
         | The taste and appearance among good olive oil varies wildly and
         | the super-premium ones will usually taste quite different from
         | standard decent quality supermarket extra virgin.
        
           | vasco wrote:
           | I can confirm, we have a single huge olive tree in a small
           | piece of land my grandpa bought in the 80s to have extra food
           | and this single tree gives 3 people enough olive oil for the
           | whole year (portuguese standards, so cooking with it plus
           | codfish "drowning" in it on the plate). We hit the tree so
           | they fall, then take it to a guy that presses it and you have
           | your olive oil.
           | 
           | Definitely completely different from store olive oil, and
           | definitely on a completely other league to what I had in the
           | US.
        
           | VBprogrammer wrote:
           | I lived with a Greek flatmate for a while. By far the best
           | olive oil I've had was from their family owned olive grove.
           | Usually brought back from his trips home in reused milk jugs.
        
             | ericbarrett wrote:
             | There used to be a vineyard in Lake County (CA) that made
             | small-batch olive oil from trees on their estate. Sadly,
             | the trees were destroyed in a fire a few years ago. I'll
             | never forget the taste; it had a very strong olive flavor
             | and was so acidic it actually felt spicy on your tongue.
             | Have never found its equal in a store, no matter how exotic
             | and/or pricey.
        
               | elorant wrote:
               | Early harvest olive oil is like that. It's from olives
               | that aren't ripped so the flavor is spicier. It's quite
               | expensive too; two to three times the price of the normal
               | one.
        
               | disillusioned wrote:
               | A great oil finishing with a strong black pepper taste is
               | fairly achievable if you know where to look.
               | 
               | Zingerman's Mail Order does a phenomenal job of sourcing
               | olive oils like this but also of specifically calling out
               | the tasting notes and the differences in their options.
               | 
               | Two that they have that specifically hit this spiciness
               | you're looking for:
               | 
               | https://www.zingermans.com/Product/petraia-olive-
               | oil/O-PET https://www.zingermans.com/Product/la-spineta-
               | olive-oil/O-SP...
               | 
               | But in my experience, their live chat or phone service is
               | absolutely amazing at guiding you to a great option, too.
        
             | 3pt14159 wrote:
             | My default these days in Canada is Greek or Chilean olive
             | oil. I've lived in Cyprus for almost half a year. I know
             | what good olive oil tastes like, and yes, the grocer olive
             | oil back home in Canada isn't as good, but it's way better
             | than the local or even Italian stuff. It tastes like _real_
             | olive oil.
             | 
             | I don't know what is going on with Italian olive oil these
             | days, and maybe I've just had a bad couple batches in a
             | row, but it will take a long time for me to trust it again.
             | It almost always tastes diluted with other oils to my
             | pallet.
        
             | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
             | I am so envious of you right now, to have even tasted this.
        
         | lg wrote:
         | In NYC you are spoiled for choice, my go-to is Mani marketplace
         | that periodically gets a batch in from their dad's grove in the
         | Mani :)
        
         | scottLobster wrote:
         | My understanding is that's mostly an issue with imported
         | "blends" that claim olive oil from multiple sources. Single
         | origin stuff is usually safer, and domestically produced
         | Californian olive oil is usually what it says it is. You can
         | also look for harvest dates and seals from the various olive
         | councils for purity.
        
           | jancsika wrote:
           | It's trickier than you let on.
           | 
           | At least for California, you have to look for the California
           | Olive Oil Council seal if you want to be sure:
           | 
           | https://cooc.com/about-the-seal/
           | 
           | For example: there is a company called "California Olive
           | Ranch." It used to have a popular olive oil sold in a lot of
           | larger grocery stores that had the COOC seal. Then it started
           | to source olives (oil?) from somewhere outside California and
           | blend with the California olives[1]. That broke the rules of
           | the COOC seal-- to have the word "California" on the label
           | you can't blend with non-Californian olives. So the seal is
           | no longer on that bottle, but the name "California Olive
           | Ranch" is obviously on that label because it's the name of
           | the company.
           | 
           | Thus, a shopper would be misled by your second sentence and
           | buy an oil with olives and whatever else from imported non-
           | Californian sources. That means the third sentence is also
           | wrong-- looking for harvest dates and COOC seal isn't
           | something that the shopper can do to double check their
           | choice. Rather, that is the _only_ thing they can do to be
           | sure they 're getting actual virgin olive oil of sufficient
           | quality (the seal) that isn't rancid (the harvest date being
           | within less than a year).
           | 
           | Edit: I don't have a link, but there was a recent COOC fiasco
           | where a lot of the smaller farms got up in arms due to a
           | proposed language change in the requirements for obtaining
           | the seal. Don't remember the details, but it sure sounded
           | like it would have made it easier for a member to blend with
           | some amount of imported olives and still carry the seal.
           | 
           | Honestly, I think there's enough intrigue and drama in this
           | topic of finding bona fide olive oil to start a substack
           | subscription thingy if anyone is interested in that. :)
        
         | ryanwaggoner wrote:
         | I think these fears are overblown, at least based on this 2015
         | study by the FDA:
         | 
         |  _" The authenticity of 88 market samples of EVOO was evaluated
         | ... with purity criteria specified in the United States
         | Standards for grades of olive oil and olive-pomace oil. Three
         | of the 88 samples labeled as EVOO failed to meet purity
         | criteria, indicating possible adulteration with commodity oil
         | and/or solvent-extracted olive oil."_
         | 
         | Source:
         | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286479191_Authentic...
        
         | armchairhacker wrote:
         | I get California Olive Branch "100% California" EVOO because I
         | heard it was genuine. Do you know if this is true, and if not,
         | which brands are?
         | 
         | I only add like 1tsp of oil to the pan when cooking so I can
         | justify using the more expensive brands, though i don't really
         | taste a difference
        
           | efficax wrote:
           | the 100% california stuff is genuine, although a blend from
           | california farms (so not single olive estate, which the best
           | stuff is. i think they also sell single olive oils but they
           | are very expensive). The blended stuff from south american
           | olives is also probably real. It certainly tastes real if not
           | as nice and peppery as the good stuff. If you're ever in
           | northern california a lot of the wineries in sonoma / napa
           | also grow and press olive oil, those are worth grabbing and
           | savouring. wonderful by the spoonful.
        
           | OgAstorga wrote:
           | I like that wherever I travel I can find Kirkland's EVOO.
           | It's not the freshest but it's not fake (combined with low
           | quality vegetable oils).
        
           | jfengel wrote:
           | Once you heat it, the differences become negligible to
           | nonexistent. Good-quality oils are most important in raw
           | uses, such as dips and salad dressings.
           | 
           | It's a hassle to maintain a "cooking olive oil" and a "raw
           | olive oil", so the worst you're doing is wasting a tiny bit
           | of money for the convenience of keeping around just one
           | bottle.
           | 
           | As for the particular brand you mention... yes, it's very
           | well reputed. Being produced in the US, there are fewer
           | opportunities for fraud that occur when importing mass-
           | produced oils. (Imported artisan oils are often extremely
           | good, but pricey because of the overhead.)
           | 
           | You probably would notice the difference if you were to
           | compare it to other brands -- especially when the bottle is
           | newly opened. In cooking... eh, I just use a bottle of
           | whatever's cheap.
        
             | nicoburns wrote:
             | > It's a hassle to maintain a "cooking olive oil" and a
             | "raw olive oil"
             | 
             | I find the price difference(between supermarket extra
             | virgin olive oil, and actually delicious stuff) is pretty
             | significant (4x-5x). Well worth keeping around to bottles.
        
             | derekp7 wrote:
             | I think that is the brand I picked up at Walmart one time.
             | And I really did notice the difference -- it had a more
             | buttery texture, and was delicious on my salad.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _I get California Olive Branch "100% California" EVOO
           | because I heard it was genuine. Do you know if this is true,
           | and if not, which brands are?_
           | 
           | Broadly speaking, get what you know and what's close.
           | 
           | Have a friend in Italy, Greece or Spain? Get it from them.
           | Live in California? Get it from there. The longer the supply
           | and trust chains for something like olive oil, the higher the
           | chances of funny business.
        
             | mmmpop wrote:
        
           | stevenwoo wrote:
           | If one trusts Consumer Reports they do a study every so often
           | on best tasting (one of the cheaper Trader Joe's brand came
           | out on top with EVOO in the middle tier off the top of my
           | head), though if you use only small amounts for cooking one
           | may not be able to tell a big difference. Also some studies
           | showed people preferred rancid oil! so who knows, what we
           | grow up with probably has a heavy influence on taste
           | preferences. You might want to try some white bread and maybe
           | a little garlic mixed in your oil and use that as a dipping
           | sauce to get a sense of the flavor (over just drinking it. :)
           | ). UC Davis might have a California bent and be California ag
           | sponsored but because it has an agricultural college there
           | are plenty of studies originating there about olive oil. Just
           | search UC Davis and olive oil.
        
             | npongratz wrote:
             | > Also some studies showed people preferred rancid oil!
             | 
             | I was once in a casual, blind taste test at an Anheuser-
             | Busch facility where at least half of the dozen testers
             | preferred the beer whose kegs had been sitting out in the
             | hot sun for two weeks, instead of the kegs of the same
             | vintage that had been sitting in the refrigerated warehouse
             | during that time.
             | 
             | As they say, "there's no accounting for taste."
        
               | leephillips wrote:
               | People living in industrialized societies, especially the
               | US, are accustomed to the taste of old food, and fresh
               | food tastes wrong to them. Testing packaging that reduces
               | the rate of oxidation exposed this taste preference: in
               | tests many US people preferred slightly oxidized milk,
               | etc., although objectively this is a form of spoilage.
               | Similarly, some people prefer the distorted sound of LPs
               | to accurately reproduced music. People prefer what
               | they're used to.
        
         | killjoywashere wrote:
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | kareemm wrote:
           | I dunno. If you taste olive oil from a trusted source (like
           | at the grove where the olives are grown and perhaps pressed),
           | and compare it with $random_storebought_brand, there's a
           | major difference in taste.
           | 
           | The difference doesn't make it objectively better for you, or
           | even better tasting.
           | 
           | But in a world where the phenomenon of olive oil adulterated
           | with other oils is well documented[1], it's a legitimate
           | question to ask why the small batch oil tastes different from
           | the big box version.
           | 
           | 1- https://www.epicurious.com/ingredients/seven-ways-to-tell-
           | th...
        
           | zwieback wrote:
           | true words, but mentioning the move from a tropical island to
           | SV is its own kind of virtue signaling
        
             | killjoywashere wrote:
             | Fair, I edited that out.
        
         | _moof wrote:
         | The North American Olive Oil Association maintains a list of
         | genuine olive oils. They send people into grocery stores to
         | randomly buy a bottle of one of the listed brands/varieties and
         | test it in their lab.
         | 
         | https://www.aboutoliveoil.org/64-certified-pure-and-authenti...
        
           | yrral wrote:
           | Interesting, from the article:
           | 
           | > Does the fact that an olive oil does not have your seal
           | mean that the olive oil is not authentic?
           | 
           | > The answer is emphatically no. According to a study
           | conducted by scientists from the FDA in a study published in
           | 2015 that the risk of purchasing a bottle of adulterated EVOO
           | is low (less than 5%). The scientists randomly sampled 88
           | bottles of EVOO that they purchased from supermarkets and
           | online stores, and did not find a single instance of
           | adulteration
           | 
           | I wonder where the opposite fact that I hear on the internet
           | that most olive oil is adulterated comes from.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | Is this one of those schisms like exists between USDA organic
           | and California organic? Because your list doesn't include any
           | olive oils I would actually eat, whereas they are all on this
           | list: https://cooc.com/certified-oils/
        
             | chrischen wrote:
             | According to the OP's website:
             | 
             | > "In 2010, the UC Davis Olive Center, an organization
             | created to promote the sale of California olive oil,
             | published a report funded by California olive oil producers
             | and companies. The purpose of the report was to make news
             | that would discredit their competition - imported olive
             | oils."
             | 
             | https://www.aboutoliveoil.org/olive-oil-fraud
             | 
             | So it seems like these two organizations are at odds with
             | each other. But the California study was based on
             | subjective "taste tests" to identify fake olive oils... Big
             | red flag there.
        
         | zwieback wrote:
         | Hmm, I recently switched from TJ Greek Kalamata to a super-
         | market brand because the former didn't taste good to me
         | anymore. Now I learn that that particular TJ stuff is
         | "authentic" (or "orthentic" as Paulie Senior liked to say) so
         | YMMV.
        
         | [deleted]
        
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