[HN Gopher] Vasa's sister ship Applet found
___________________________________________________________________
Vasa's sister ship Applet found
Author : woodwireandfood
Score : 113 points
Date : 2022-10-25 16:40 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.su.se)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.su.se)
| undoware wrote:
| I'm lowkey waiting to hear about Applet's _other_ sister-ship,
| JDK
|
| You can't tell me you've thought about what you'd name things if
| you were warped into the past and worked as a Swedish shipwright.
| Like, it's just too tempting to troll 21st-century conspiracists
| with anachronistic ship names, _of course_ it would be a thing
| you 'd do.
|
| Call this the 'anthwarpic principle' (no I don't care) and by
| 2022 epistemological standards, it's as likely to be real as
| anything else
|
| OK, fine, downvote me, you cowards
| DougN7 wrote:
| If you find this interesting, you might like learning about the
| Goethenborg, which you can even volunteer and sail on.
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff6aQdszTiE
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| Are there any surviving line drawings of these boats?
| moffkalast wrote:
| hericium wrote:
| There's Vasa Museum[1] in Stockholm with the whole ship.
|
| [1] https://www.vasamuseet.se/en/
| zdw wrote:
| If you have the opportunity, visiting this museum is highly
| recommended - they let you walk inside the ship and see both
| the historical context, as well as the modern restoration
| process.
|
| It's located in a beautiful park and the nearby Nordiska
| museum is also quite impressive.
| skookum wrote:
| I've been visiting the Vasa every few years for 3 decades
| and there has never been a time when museum goers were
| allowed onto or into the ship. I haven't been to Stockholm
| since the start of the Covid pandemic but I very much doubt
| that has changed.
|
| They do have some rooms on the side with mock-ups of some
| of the ship's quarters - maybe that is what you are
| remembering?
| mwidell wrote:
| It's funny because I also had this memory of walking
| around inside the ship when I visited the museum as a
| child. A few years ago when I visited again I realised it
| must had been the interior mockups I remember.
| zdw wrote:
| Ah, might have been a mockup I remember - the ceilings
| were quite low and the floor very angled.
|
| It's a sign of how good the mockup and whole museum was
| that I remember it being better than it actually was.
| AtNightWeCode wrote:
| Eh, no, you are not allowed onto the ship. Still, it is
| probably the best museum in Sweden.
| matthiasv wrote:
| They won't let you walk inside the ship. At least not a
| year ago.
| ggm wrote:
| It sometimes felt like it was a giant candle-wax drip model
| 1:1 scale, there is so much preserving coating on the wood.
| jfk13 wrote:
| > The ship's designer was Hein Jakobsson, the same master
| shipbuilder who completed Vasa. He realized that Vasa had the
| wrong proportions even before she was launched, which could lead
| to instability.
|
| And indeed, she tipped, foundered and sank on her maiden voyage.
|
| > The Apple was therefore built wider than the Vasa, but despite
| this, the ship was not successful...
|
| Being a "master shipbuilder" in those days was apparently a tough
| gig.
| abcd_f wrote:
| And the proportions of Vasa were wrong only because the king
| got to participate in and drive the design process.
| pavlov wrote:
| In fact being a master shipbuilder in 1612 was very similar
| to being a master software architect in 2022.
| labster wrote:
| That would explain why someone wrote IT shanties.
|
| https://www.npr.org/2022/01/22/1074964815/opinion-sea-
| shanti...
| floren wrote:
| Not a patch on the White Collar Holler:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsDkmVo2fg4
| [deleted]
| sorenjan wrote:
| Hein Jakobsson completed Vasa, but wasn't the original
| designer. That was Henrik Hybertsson. Jakobsson widened Vasa
| somewhat to try to improve it, and Applet was even wider.
|
| Applet was in use for almost 30 years, and was deliberately
| sunk.
| lproven wrote:
| > Jakobsson widened Vasa somewhat to try to improve it,
|
| As I recall, the king ordered him to add more gun decks, and
| he did as he was told. Disobeying a king went badly in the
| 17th century...
| bjacobt wrote:
| And there was unreasonable expectation and pressure from
| management
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_syndrome
|
| Edited
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| Don't link to mobile wikipedia. It is incredibly rude to
| people who want the normal site, while being of zero benefit
| to people who want the mobile site.
| drc500free wrote:
| I aspire to a life where my scale of rude behavior tops out
| with a stranger using the mobile version of an interesting
| link on an online message board.
| kzrdude wrote:
| It has been said that mobile wikipedia is more user
| friendly on any platform, basically a more modern user
| interface than the standard desktop interface. Thus having
| benefit to everyone.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| It has also been said that Hurricane Katrina was a divine
| punishment for gay marriage.
| teddyh wrote:
| That used to annoy me a lot, but then I installed
| https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/skip-
| mobile-w... and forgot about it.
| xorcist wrote:
| A precursor of "fail fast, fail often" perhaps?
| mandevil wrote:
| This is one of the things that reading D.K. Brown's pentology
| on design of RN ships (_Before the Ironclad_, _Warrior to
| Dreadnought_, _Grand Fleet_, _Nelson to Vanguard_, and
| _Rebuilding the Royal Navy_) drives home: in the pre-WWI era
| almost everything is done with fudge factors and building off
| of what was done before, but a little different, and even into
| the 1950's there are lots of room for error.
|
| One story that has stuck with me is of a destroyer class in WW2
| that performed particularly horribly because of an error on
| calculating the metacentric height. The proper procedure for
| calculating it was to have two different dudes each spend a
| week calculating it independently and hoping that their numbers
| matched. Apparently, in the rush of what had to be done, the
| RCNC cut some corners and only had one draftsman do it in this
| case, and he made an error and now the ships rolled
| horrifically. But even Bouguer and Euler- the people inventing
| metacentric height calculations- are working a century after
| the Vasa, so a master shipbuilder in that era just has his
| working experience and no real math to help him.
| tored wrote:
| If you follow the excellent YouTube channel Drachinifel you
| will learn that many ships of that era (including WW2) had
| design flaws, like heavy rolling, flooding into compartments,
| breaking of the hull etc. This was the time before computer
| models and computer simulation.
| melony wrote:
| > _Being a "master shipbuilder" in those days was apparently a
| tough gig._
|
| I heard Boeing's hiring. Maybe they can set him up with a nice
| software defined pitch corrector too.
| hal-eisen wrote:
| While we're talking about old ships, let me toss in a plug (ha
| ha) for the Edwin Fox. Not quite so old, but still very
| interesting history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Fox
| cromulent wrote:
| I wonder if a statue of Paavo Nurmi will be on the deck.
|
| https://www.ayy.fi/en/student-culture/pranks
| coldcode wrote:
| I must resist asking if it used Java. I would love to see the
| Vasa but have not made it to Stockholm yet. I did see the Mary
| Rose in Portsmouth which was incredibly fascinating to see (large
| portions of the ship remain so you can see the layout). Mary Rose
| is from the century prior to Vasa and Applet.
| Smar wrote:
| It probably used Java.
| LinAGKar wrote:
| I assume it used Objective-C
| BurningFrog wrote:
| I've been across much of the world, and never seen or heard of
| _anything_ like Vasa. If I 'm wrong, I'm sure comments below
| will have counterexamples :)
|
| I tell people that if they only do one thing in Stockholm, it
| should be that.
| lastofthemojito wrote:
| Certainly not the same thing, but the 2 literally jaw-
| dropping moments I've experienced looking at "ships" in
| museums are the Vasa and the Space Shuttle Discovery (at the
| Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum's Udvar-Hazy Center
| outside of Washington).
| gokhan wrote:
| Visited both. Mary Rose is well presented with all the
| extracted findings in their own galleries. But visiting Vasa is
| much better experience, it's intact, you're so close etc.
| dendrite9 wrote:
| Have you been to the Mary Rose recently? I read about the
| changes since I was there around 2000. I remember the
| spraying and thinking it would take forever for that process
| to be finished. Interesting to be on that other side of
| forever and see visitors can see the boat without the
| spraying chamber in place.
| dchasson wrote:
| DoneWithAllThat wrote:
| When I told a coworker I was visiting Stockholm for the first
| time a few years back, we had the following conversation:
|
| Him: "You gonna go see the boat museum?"
|
| Me: "The what?"
|
| Him: "The boat museum. It's a museum with a boat in it."
|
| Me: "...just one boat?"
|
| Him: "Trust me. Go see the boat."
|
| He was right. One of the coolest museums I've ever visited in my
| life.
| lproven wrote:
| He was, and you are. Highlight of one my last visits to
| Stockholm so far.
| mherdeg wrote:
| I hope they treat it right!
|
| My biggest takeaway from visiting Vasa was that it only has
| decades left, after being essentially immortal underwater, due to
| some preservation-related choices that seemed right at the time.
| A final irony for the vessel I guess.
| gambiting wrote:
| That's not quite what the museum page says:
|
| "Vasa lay in the grimy waters in Stockholm for 333 years. After
| all these years in the water the ship was attacked by bacteria
| and rust.Vasa was slowly decomposing, and is still doing so
| today, due to a number of different factors. The museum is
| conducting world-leading research on how to counteract these
| decomposition processes. And considering the age, we must say
| that Vasa is in an impressive shape. Our goal is to preserve
| Vasa for a thousand years."
| yuvalr1 wrote:
| If you have some free hours in Stockholm, treat yourself a visit
| to the Vasa museum. Seeing these ships with your own eyes and
| internalizing the amount of work and thought that was put into
| them is a real thought provoking experience. The eventual
| magnificent failure of the ship only adds to the story. This is
| one of the more impressive museums I had the pleasure to visit.
| pavlov wrote:
| The naming of the first ship is obvious: Vasa was the royal house
| of Sweden.
|
| But why did the king decide to call the second ship "The Apple"?
| Did he like his Macintosh so much?
| Bronze_Colossus wrote:
| It's tradition in the Swedish navy to give the largest and
| mightiest ships name from the Swedish royal regalia. But sure
| doesn't sound intimidating.
| rags2riches wrote:
| Other names of Royal ships in the same style were The Crown,
| The Key, The Sceptre and The Sword. Like The Apple, they are
| all regalia.
| mayormcmatt wrote:
| Tangentially, there is an interesting connection between
| Scandanavia and the Mac: the command key symbol, AKA Saint
| John's Arms (among others). When I've visited Sweden, it's all
| over the countryside, on signs marking places of interest.
| sorenjan wrote:
| Another similar tangent: Rambo got his name from the Rambo
| apple, which in turn got its name from Peter Gunnarsson
| Ramberg who took the name from Ramberget in Gothenburg.
| teddyh wrote:
| Which in turn got its name from old swedish "ram" or
| "ravn", meaning "raven".
| bydo wrote:
| Origin story: https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Swe
| dish_Campgrou...
| robin_reala wrote:
| Wikipedia says:
|
| _" The Apple" is the Swedish term for the globus cruciger, the
| regal orb and cross._
| airstrike wrote:
| "Globus Cruciger" is a badass name for an indie game
| sorenjan wrote:
| Vasa wasn't named after the royal house, it was named after the
| vase[0] on the heraldic symbol for the house of Vasa[1]. A vase
| is probably best described as a fasces. Applet was probably
| named after a globus cruciger[2], or "national apple"
| (riksapple), part of the regalia of Sweden.
|
| [0] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vase_(heraldisk_symbol)
|
| [1]
| https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa%C3%A4tten#/media/Fil:COA-...
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globus_cruciger
| vintermann wrote:
| The classic "holy hand grenade".
| BurningFrog wrote:
| It seems that Gustav I also took the name Vasa from the
| heraldic symbol, though the Wikipedia article doesn't say so
| directly.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Vasa
| rags2riches wrote:
| Gustav was known as "Gustav Eriksson" in his day,
| "Eriksson" being a patronym. Family names wasn't really a
| thing at the time, as coat of arms were. The form "Gustav
| Eriksson Vasa" first appears in the 17th century and simply
| "Gustav Vasa" isn't used before the 18th.
| dingosity wrote:
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-10-25 23:00 UTC)