[HN Gopher] Video gaming may be associated with better cognitive...
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       Video gaming may be associated with better cognitive performance in
       children
        
       Author : gmays
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2022-10-26 20:54 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nida.nih.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nida.nih.gov)
        
       | boomboomsubban wrote:
       | Huh, my immediate assumption was income played a huge role but
       | the video game cohort had poorer parents.
       | 
       | The gender difference is huge though, the nongaming cohort had
       | 288 males and 840 females while the gaming cohort had 372 males
       | and 307 females.
       | 
       | Also, I'm a bit confused why they just dumped anyone with between
       | one and three hours of videogame playing a day.
        
         | notch656a wrote:
         | Video games are like the cheapest way to keep a kid busy for
         | low income working parents. I guess they could send the kids
         | outside but people nowadays start asking questions if a kid is
         | caught outside while single mom is working for 3 hours or
         | something.
         | 
         | Given infinite money I think many of those parents would send
         | the kid with nanny if needed or whatever to organized sports,
         | piano classes, etc.
        
           | imran-iq wrote:
           | > Video games are like the cheapest way to keep a kid busy
           | for low income working parents
           | 
           | Source on that? Video games (console or pc) is very expensive
           | and not something low income folks can generally afford for
           | their kids.
        
         | etiam wrote:
         | Discarding all the moderate users seems like a design flaw. A
         | possible effect on cognition is a fairly natural question for
         | regression.
         | 
         | Maybe you saw it in the text but, "This threshold was selected
         | as it exceeds the American Academy of Pediatrics screen time
         | guidelines, which recommend that videogaming time be limited to
         | one to two hours per day for older children."
         | 
         | The thought process I can sort of imagine is that the tests are
         | fairly costly and the hypothesis they're testing is that more
         | play than the official recommended limit should decidedly give
         | detectable impairments to cognition. (Seems they could have
         | rejected that, if they'd had comparable groups in the first
         | place. Now I'm not sure what it says)
        
       | darkteflon wrote:
       | My son started playing games (with me) at 4 yo (partly because we
       | were all locked indoors for months on end).
       | 
       | Anecdotally - and providing you use some discretion as to choice
       | of game - I've found it absolutely fascinating to watch both the
       | pace of development of problem-solving skills, and some of the
       | frankly astounding leaps of logic and intuition young kids are
       | capable of. I vividly remember one rock-moving puzzle in Breath
       | of the Wild that had me stumped until he piped up with a proposal
       | that turned out to be the correct solution. Fascinating stuff.
        
         | andrewmutz wrote:
         | What games do you recommend for kids of that age?
        
           | danielmarkbruce wrote:
           | As mentioned, Zelda Breath of the Wild is a great game for
           | kids, even as young as 4-5. My kid is 6 and had an amazing
           | time with it, as did I.
        
           | cloudking wrote:
           | Minecraft
        
       | etiam wrote:
       | Careful now. Self-assortment into those who don't play at all and
       | those who play at least three hours per day? There's good reasons
       | to think those weren't otherwise equivalent populations in the
       | first place. I'm buying "associated" but any sort of claims about
       | effects from the games are going to have to come from elsewhere.
        
         | rednerrus wrote:
         | Would you assume the same thing about playing a musical
         | instrument or playing a sport? What is playing video games
         | except practicing cognitive performance? It works spatial
         | reasoning, logic, dexterity, problem solving, reactions, etc.
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | could be kids who have access to a console and have several
           | hours a day free might be in a different socioeconomic
           | environment?
           | 
           | but with cheap phone games, maybe not. hmmm...
        
           | colinmhayes wrote:
           | Yes, but for different reasons. Playing an instrument or
           | sport means you're more likely to have a non-poor family with
           | parents who have time to spend with you.
        
           | etiam wrote:
           | How is the alternative not?
        
       | slt2021 wrote:
       | only competitive gaming develops brain and teamwork (for team
       | play games).
       | 
       | leisure/casual gaming is no better than browsing TikTok.
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | Not all games are the same.
       | 
       | Maxis and older Blizzard games were probably the best.
        
       | kahon65 wrote:
       | Which games are mentionned please?
        
       | ransom1538 wrote:
       | My son (6) is allowed to only play one game.
       | https://play0ad.com/. It has been a surreal experience. He is
       | able to gather resources, launch campaigns, build cities, he now
       | creates complex strategies to defeat the enemy (me). The game has
       | great LAN game play so we can take on each other was well (its
       | open source). The next step, he wants to know "how do we change
       | this?" Code.
       | 
       | Compare this to watching tiktok?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Mikeb85 wrote:
       | Of course. Most video games force you to make decisions at a
       | fairly rapid pace with ever changing information. It's like chess
       | on steroids.
        
       | CharlieDigital wrote:
       | I remember reading a paper that there's a strong association
       | between spatial reasoning and performance in math.
       | 
       | This made intuitive sense to me given that there is some overlap
       | between manipulating objects in a 2D or 3D space and visualizing
       | a math problem whether numeric or geometric.
       | 
       | I find it hard to believe that typical video game puzzles can
       | help increase cognitive performance, but plausible that training
       | spatial recognition might help train the same regions of the
       | brain we use for math.
       | 
       | Even the basic mechanics: teaching math to my kids when they were
       | young was purely a visual exercise of moving groups of things
       | (coins, Cheerios, M&M's) around.
        
         | dymk wrote:
         | Ask yourself: are you a shape rotator or a wordcel?
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | Was it the urge to hold your inventory full until the game ends?
       | Haha
       | 
       | But seriously, the thing that's interesting is if you could
       | challenge a child's spatial intelligence more in a VR or game
       | universe than in our limited gravity enabled world. Curious
       | indeed.
       | 
       | Can't say it overwhelms my fear of screen time but it's a thing.
        
       | jjice wrote:
       | Complete anecdote, but my dad and I would play games like Zelda
       | growing up (fond memories). Not sure if that's why I like puzzles
       | now, but it definitely fits with the problem solving involved in
       | software engineering. Or the two are completely unrelated.
        
       | pgt wrote:
       | If you're playing video games competitively, you're probably not
       | drinking to excess.
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | I don't think many 9-10 year olds are alcoholics.
        
         | Broken_Hippo wrote:
         | These were children - 9 and 10 years old. It is doubtful that
         | any of them were playing competitively or drinking to excess.
         | 
         | Even in older folks, 3 hours a day isn't really playing
         | competitively nor does it mean you aren't drinking. We used to
         | spend many hours getting drunk and high and playing games. It
         | was great fun, and still is from time to time.
        
       | armatav wrote:
       | Problem is avoiding them being used as a coping mechanism for
       | stress
        
         | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
         | Why? Assuming it doesn't become overwhelming I don't see the
         | issue with that, same as any other stress relief.
        
           | educaysean wrote:
           | I grew up in South Korea where kids are placed under immense
           | academic stress and gaming is an established mainstream
           | culture. In the last two decades or so, the instances of kids
           | and adults suffering from severe gaming addiction have become
           | increasingly common.
           | 
           | The issue is exacerbated by the fact that more gaming
           | companies are embracing loot boxes, pay-to-win schemes, and
           | other parlor tricks to not only keep the players addicted but
           | to also extract as much cash as possible from its captive
           | audience. When hearing the stories of people whose lives were
           | ruined by video games, it's hard not to draw the similarities
           | with gambling addicts who poured their entire life savings
           | into casinos. Except the casinos now exist in the pockets of
           | 14 year olds, accessible at all times.
           | 
           | I'm a long time gamer and a hobby game dev myself. I very
           | much dislike the tendency for media to overstate the harms of
           | gaming, but the reality is that gaming in its current form
           | can be a very dangerous thing to become addicted to.
        
           | DelightOne wrote:
           | Its too addicting.
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | I feel like I have the opposites of an addictive
             | personality. I enjoy playing games but I struggle to stay
             | interested in any game for more than 10 hours and then I
             | need a few months to reset and play it again. The only
             | thing I have become addicted to is Hacker News and reddit.
             | Arguably worse for you than games, for reddit at least.
        
             | falcolas wrote:
             | No more addicting than TV or movies. More engaging, on the
             | other hand...
        
               | ketzo wrote:
               | If it's more engaging, how could it _not_ be more
               | addictive?
        
             | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
             | I don't know, I think a great number of previous video game
             | players have grown up and become functional humans given
             | the majority of children in the last few generations will
             | have played videos games for entertainment in one fashion
             | or another. There's always outliers who will have problems
             | of course, but that doesn't mean it's bad for the rest.
        
         | dtdynasty wrote:
         | From personal experience I do agree that video games can be
         | used as a form of distraction and escapism. but I think
         | teaching mental awareness and moderation could change it from
         | distraction to relaxation.
        
           | formerkrogemp wrote:
           | Hey, you can your relaxation with a side helping of micro
           | transactions and loot boxes.
        
         | rubyist5eva wrote:
         | Videogames as a coping mechanism for stress stopped me from
         | committing suicide. It's not so simple, nothing ever is.
        
         | TapWaterBandit wrote:
         | Yea, video games can definitely end up being an unhealthy
         | coping mechanism used to avoid addressing your real life
         | issues. That said they are probably on balance a better coping
         | mechanism than some of the other popular ones out there
         | (Alcohol, drugs, porn, gambling) but definitely worth keeping
         | an eye on. Especially because video games aren't restricted for
         | children like all those others things are (at least in theory).
        
           | notch656a wrote:
           | Gambling is roughly described as gaming with higher stakes,
           | IMO. My totally unqualified, unsubstantiated guess would be
           | the average gambler has higher cognitive performance than the
           | average video game player. A dumb gambler goes broke sooner
           | or later, which doesn't make them all quit but it does make
           | some of them quit, which I would _wager_ causes a selective
           | effect towards the smarter ones.
        
             | reducesuffering wrote:
             | Have you been to a casino? 95% of Blackjack players aren't
             | even playing basic strategy, something that takes a single
             | day to learn. Instead, mid-rank players in popular online
             | games like Valorant and Overwatch 2 are quite formidable
             | multi-level thinkers.
        
             | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
             | I think you're envisioning gambling as a poker shark, when
             | it could be someone betting on horses, playing slot
             | machines, or buying scratch cards.
        
       | notch656a wrote:
       | Having 3 hours PER DAY to do _anything_ for leisure, even if it
       | 's a form of escape from terrible circumstances, is quite the
       | luxury. I would guess at the population level circumstances that
       | allow 3 hours a day of non-essential activities like this to be
       | associated with circumstances that allow better cognitive
       | performance than those without 3 hours a day of time to do
       | something for personal interest.
        
         | recursive wrote:
         | In 10 year olds? I would think most 10 year olds have more time
         | than they know what to do with.
        
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       (page generated 2022-10-26 23:00 UTC)