[HN Gopher] CD Projekt is remaking the first Witcher game in Unr...
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       CD Projekt is remaking the first Witcher game in Unreal Engine 5
        
       Author : ibobev
       Score  : 173 points
       Date   : 2022-10-27 16:17 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.gamedeveloper.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.gamedeveloper.com)
        
       | efficax wrote:
       | here's an idea: make Witcher 4 instead
        
         | FractalHQ wrote:
         | To be fair, they are also working on the Witcher 4 in Unreal
         | Engine 5.
        
       | generationP wrote:
       | "Canis Majoris" hehe, they sure know who the main boss of the
       | game is.
        
       | Arubis wrote:
       | I don't want to get my hopes up, but already know they can have
       | my money.
        
       | danschuller wrote:
       | Remakes make business sense. Every game is a risk. A portfolio of
       | products that includes remakes reduces that risk. A game that was
       | previously popular is easier to remaster than trying to make some
       | new that's less tested. There are always brand new gamers to
       | introduce to your IP as well as existing gamers who may have
       | missed or want to replay earlier games. If you're a mature studio
       | it's almost irresponsible to not do this.
       | 
       | The more interesting part of the story is Unreal is being used.
       | For a while Unity and Unreal have been pushing out in-house
       | engines. Again standard tools make it easier to hire expertise
       | and use existing solutions and assets, they're also far cheaper
       | than running a full engine team. Supporting a custom engine is a
       | massive undertaking at the high end (ignore the tech, on-boarding
       | people, docs, QA, surrounding tools for artists, sound designers,
       | localisation etc. And then making it work on a wide variety of
       | hardware and working around any graphics bugs etc).
        
         | _the_inflator wrote:
         | I agree with you. And it is still hard to get it wright in
         | order to be sold.
         | 
         | If you want to stand up to competition, you need a cash cow. I
         | don't blame any independent studio to do just that. They have
         | to balance risks.
        
         | daemin wrote:
         | You'd think using Unreal Engine makes it easier to hire but
         | that's not the case, it just means there's more competition for
         | the people knowledgable in it, and it drives the people that
         | want to work on something different to other studios. It also
         | doesn't cut down on development time or the needed number of
         | engine programmers since studios pretty much have to modify and
         | enhance the engine, often replacing several components in order
         | to ship the game. In some cases you'll end up with an
         | incompatible fork which requires its own team to extend and
         | enhance it, meaning that to upgrade to a newer version from
         | Epic you'll need to spend months merging the codebases.
         | 
         | Overall I see the adoption of Unreal Engine as a net negative
         | for the industry, it's reducing the landscape to a monoculture.
         | For all the talk that Epic does about being against monopolies,
         | Unreal Engine is becoming one in a big way, and killing the
         | ecosystem as it grows.
        
         | WorldMaker wrote:
         | > The more interesting part of the story is Unreal is being
         | used. For a while Unity and Unreal have been pushing out in-
         | house engines.
         | 
         | This is exactly the case for CD Projekt Red. They built their
         | own engine (RED Engine) for Witcher 1 and built on top of it
         | for the two Witcher sequels and also pushed it to its very
         | limits for Cyberpunk 2077. A lot of useful criticism of the
         | technological pains (delays, marketplace reception issues) they
         | experienced with Cyberpunk was that they were using an in-house
         | game engine unprepared for that genre (jumping from a game
         | series where the fastest vehicle was a horse to one with cars
         | and flying cars and planes is maybe not the easiest straight
         | line). CDPR responded to that criticism, especially from their
         | shareholders, that they would be minimizing that risk in future
         | games development and externalizing that dependency and moving
         | to an out-of-the-box game engine moving forward (including in
         | that announcement that it would be Unreal).
         | 
         | This announcement for the Witcher 1 remake seems like a proper
         | and interesting "full circle" for this story: CDPR's last
         | engine was built entirely for Witcher 1. Using off-the-shelf
         | Unreal to remake Witcher 1 sounds like a smart way on paper to
         | get their feet wet and move on from the old engine to the new
         | one using a project they are already familiar with and can help
         | them realign from old pipelines to new ones.
        
           | msbarnett wrote:
           | > This is exactly the case for CD Projekt Red. They built
           | their own engine (RED Engine) for Witcher 1 and built on top
           | of it for the two Witcher sequels and also pushed it to its
           | very limits for Cyberpunk 2077.
           | 
           | Close. REDEngine was created for Witcher 2: Assassins of
           | Kings. Witcher 1 was built on a modified copy of Bioware's
           | Aurora Engine (the Neverwinter Nights engine).
           | 
           | REDEngine versions were:
           | 
           | REDEngine 1: The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings
           | 
           | REDEngine 2: The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings - Enhanced
           | Edition
           | 
           | REDEngine 3: The Witcher 3
           | 
           | REDEngine 4: Cyberpunk 2077
        
             | daemin wrote:
             | To add to that (since I'm somewhat of an expert on this),
             | the engine for Cyberpunk 2077 was completely rewritten from
             | scratch, and only small bits were either ported from W3 or
             | inspired by what was done in W3.
        
             | bashmelek wrote:
             | I remember Neverwinter Nights 2. Decently fun game, but
             | extremely buggy. It had some strange local lag where it
             | wasn't that unusual to command a character to move only to
             | have them freeze in place then teleport back where they
             | were 10 seconds before.
        
           | FieryTransition wrote:
           | As far as I remember, the first Witcher engine was a weird
           | mash of the engine from neverwinter nights 2 and their own
           | modifications, and they introduced their own engine with the
           | Witcher 2.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | It's also a really good time to get into the remake business,
         | tech-wise. We have a bunch of fresh new consoles optimized for
         | the latest game engines, and tons of ML-based upscaling tech to
         | play with. If you make a well-designed remake of your game
         | optimized for solid-state storage, you should have a version
         | that lasts a couple decades into the future.
        
       | ianbutler wrote:
       | Witcher 1 wound up being an unexpected hit for me. But I have a
       | thing for the game play style of that game, being a WoW player
       | for a long time. I totally get how it doesn't appeal to a lot of
       | people and I hope this increases the reach of a game with a good
       | story with otherwise dated gameplay.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | > With the game being rebuilt in Unreal Engine 5, Fool's Theory
       | will also have plenty of opportunity to revisit the somewhat
       | clunky combat mechanics of the first game
       | 
       | Hopefully they will revisit them just long enough to throw them
       | in the trash and implement an entirely different combat system
       | than the bad ones they had in Witcher 1.
        
       | hassanahmad wrote:
       | Now this is a remake I can actually see as being worth it. This
       | is a great news for the Witcher game fans and these fans numbers
       | are in millions.
        
       | bergenty wrote:
       | It needs to be exactly the same with better graphics and sound
       | design. I'm going to be very mad if they start covering up boobs,
       | introduce some hamfisted woman protagonist or something along
       | those lines.
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | I get the feeling that a lot of these game remakes are sort of IP
       | normalization moves. Get all the studio's IP onto standard modern
       | tools so that new game devs won't be surprised by custom engines
       | to make maintenance and rerelease easier, especially as the
       | studio transitions from a small boutique studio to a bog-standard
       | AAA sweatshop.
       | 
       | I also think this is the reason for Naughty Dog rereleasing The
       | Last of Us on PS5. Though the engine itself was written in C++,
       | it used a lot of Scheme code to generate game data and components
       | and I think they want to move off that because it's baffling to
       | the new devs they want to onboard.
       | 
       | I'm waiting for Id Software to throw in the towel and rerelease
       | Unreal versions of Doom (2016) and Doom Eternal.
        
         | sylens wrote:
         | Remakes are also used to train development teams on new tools.
         | It takes the pressure of a team learning to grapple with a new
         | engine if all of the content is already completed - there's a
         | better scaffolding to build off of.
        
       | jason-phillips wrote:
       | As someone playing through Witcher 3 on a Steam Deck for the
       | first time, to say that I'm wildly excited about this is not an
       | understatement. Witcher 2 currently appears to be a no-go on the
       | Deck and I'd love to play the rest of the games in the series.
        
         | zeagle wrote:
         | Do you mind if I ask what settings you run it on and how happy
         | you are with the performance? I'm precontemplatively
         | considering a steam deck but haven't really looked into it.
        
           | patrickk wrote:
           | Not OP but ProtonDB has you covered:
           | https://www.protondb.com/app/20920
           | 
           | Fantastic site.
        
           | jason-phillips wrote:
           | Sure. I left it on default settings and the video/graphics
           | performance along with the playability has been truly
           | remarkable. The stereo surround is also quite good. I suppose
           | some criticisms might be that the battery goes pretty quickly
           | (~1 hour) and it does get very warm, but I find these
           | tradeoffs easy to live with. I've only had my deck for about
           | a month and this is my first game to play through on it.
           | 
           | I'm a software engineer with a ton of Linux experience so
           | hacking the Deck doesn't scare me at all; I've read quite a
           | bit about it. But I figured I'd give it a go first with the
           | out-of-the-box configuration and so far have been thoroughly
           | impressed.
        
             | zeagle wrote:
             | Thats great. Thanks!
        
         | Aethella wrote:
         | Witcher 2 also runs perfectly fine on the Deck. You just need
         | to switch to Proton-GE rather than default version.
        
           | COGlory wrote:
           | There's also a native version, right?
        
             | cheshire_cat wrote:
             | The "native" linux version of Witcher 2 does emulations.
             | Since it's bundled it's very out of date and technology has
             | advanced since then. Witcher 2 had really bad graphics bugs
             | on my Linux playthrough, none of which appeared on Windows.
        
       | tester756 wrote:
       | Can't wait, Witcher 3 was unparalleled
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | I'd like to see a native Linux version this time, since UE5
       | supports it.
       | 
       | That said, original game with customized Aurora engine is very
       | good. No big need for a remake, but if they'll make it fully open
       | world it might be adding something interesting, besides simply
       | improved graphics.
        
       | Vt71fcAqt7 wrote:
       | This is a smart move imo: they can gain xp and build tooling for
       | unreal 5. Part of what killed their last game is their engine.
       | Now they can learn how to use a real game engine with a lower
       | stakes game and prepare for witcher 4 or whatever comes next.
        
       | ok_dad wrote:
       | I am so glad that there are so many avenues for independent game
       | devs now, because large-ish studios seem to have dug a nice
       | little rut in their old IP.
        
       | haolez wrote:
       | I've played Witcher I a lot and it's really fun, but I gave up on
       | finishing it after I got stuck in a quest where I was in a cave
       | fighting an infinite horde of enemies (with infinite respawn) and
       | nothing happened no matter how many of them I killed.
       | 
       | I hope they fix these kinds of glitches as well.
        
       | plsbenice34 wrote:
       | I already played it, so I'm unexcited. Remakes these days
       | generally seem like lazier ways to try to make money compared to
       | making new art from scratch. I thought Cyberpunk was abysmal
       | (though i loved the witcher games) so I wouldn't expect much from
       | them anymore in any case.
        
         | wmichelin wrote:
         | What about Cyberpunk was abysmal to you? I really enjoyed the
         | atmosphere and the gun-play. NPC animations left some to be
         | desired, but overall I thought the graphics were super engaging
         | and Night City was super fun to run around in.
        
           | badpun wrote:
           | I watched some footage of cyberpunk and the characters in it
           | seemed so offputting that I never bought the game. Everyone
           | in the game seemed to be some sort off money-grubbing
           | primitive sociopath or a selfish asshole otherwise. I never
           | bought GTA4/GTA5 for the same reason - I don't want to spend
           | many hours in a game where I interact with characters I
           | detest.
        
           | bergenty wrote:
           | Everything with a woman protagonist that tries to ape male
           | roles is probably going to be pretty bad.
        
           | gardenhedge wrote:
           | When Cyberpunk launched it had game breaking bugs. A lot of
           | people got their refund and forgot about the game (and
           | rightly so).
        
           | snuxoll wrote:
           | Not OP, I wouldn't call CP2077 "abysmal" but even looking
           | outside the bugs the game just wasn't anywhere near the
           | quality I expect from CDPR. The gunplay was actually pretty
           | mediocre, "better than Fallout" is not high praise and that's
           | the best I could give it; the environment was pretty but
           | lacked depth; I, personally, do not care fo
           | 
           | * The gunplay was mediocre, in my opinion. "Better than
           | Fallout" is the rating I'd give it, and that's a "you did
           | better coloring inside the lines than the kid with a motor
           | disability" on my scale.
           | 
           | * While I'm talking about gameplay, driving ranks as "Better
           | than GTA4", and see above for where that falls on my scale.
           | 
           | * The environment was pretty as all hell, but it felt shallow
           | and unlived in due to a lack of unique characters that
           | weren't copy-paste NPCs populating the world, a few fleshed
           | out characters relating to the main story, and some
           | uninspired side mission fillers. Witcher 3 may not be _as_
           | shiny, or as dense, but the world feels more _alive_ due to
           | the detail put into it.
           | 
           | * This is a personal gripe, but I really did not care for the
           | story and ludonarrative dissonance it creates. I'm also not a
           | fan of being given an illusion of choice, when all the
           | endings ultimately play out the same way with a different
           | skin (see: Mass Effect 3).
           | 
           | There's more, but those are my biggest issues with the game,
           | even discounting the AWFUL state the game was in for a long
           | time.
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | More and more it's looking like the future of game development is
       | Unreal / Unity mods.
       | 
       | I think we're at the point where it's virtually impossible to
       | make a modern looking game from scratch. We're already there with
       | browsers.
        
       | hardware2win wrote:
       | Cdpr must release something great to recover their stock which is
       | kinda low now
        
       | Tade0 wrote:
       | > Now we know that it's a ground-up remake of the game that
       | introduced Geralt of Rivia to Witcher fans outside of Poland.
       | 
       | I was always of the impression that it was Witcher III that
       | achieved this.
       | 
       | I'm Polish so I genuinely don't know. Were the previous two
       | installments popular outside of Poland?
        
         | monocasa wrote:
         | They were moderately popular games in the US for those that
         | didn't constrain themselves to the AAA powerhouses (no
         | judgement either way). I didn't play them at the time, but knew
         | of their existence and that they were supposed to be good.
        
         | avereveard wrote:
         | witcher 1 spread to all dnd groups I had contact with back in
         | Italy. not a large sample size, but within our niche it was
         | well known and well received, jankiness notwithstanding
        
         | IceWreck wrote:
         | > Were the previous two installments popular outside of Poland?
         | 
         | Witcher 2 was the first time I heard of the franchise.
        
           | AdamH12113 wrote:
           | Heavy gamer here. I heard of the first Witcher but didn't
           | think to play it until after I tried The Witcher 2: Assassins
           | of Kings, which is still my favorite game in the series.
        
         | HideousKojima wrote:
         | According to this site (can't vouch for how accurate their
         | numbers are) The Witcher III sold ~12 million copies on Steam,
         | The Witcher II sold ~6 million, and the original sold ~3
         | million. That's not counting sales on GOG and other stores,
         | consoles, etc. And I personally got copies of the first and
         | second game around the time the second game released.
         | 
         | https://vginsights.com/game/292030
        
           | skocznymroczny wrote:
           | If it doesn't count sales on GOG then it's not really
           | reliable. GOG is owned by CD Projekt group, and one of the
           | big points when releasing Witcher games was that people
           | bought them on GOG so that all money went to the devs instead
           | of paying the Steam tax.
        
             | hbn wrote:
             | How many people were aware of that campaign? Maybe in the
             | Witcher/CDPR superfan groups, but on the scale of 12
             | million copies I can't imagine it budges the number that
             | much.
             | 
             | I don't know why we're only talking about the PC version
             | anyway, there's apparently been 40 million copies sold
             | across all platforms according to a quick Google search, so
             | most people didn't even play on PC.
        
               | HideousKojima wrote:
               | >I don't know why we're only talking about the PC version
               | anyway
               | 
               | Because the post I was replying to was about the
               | popularity of The Witcher in the west before The Witcher
               | III, and the first Witcher game was a PC exclusive so
               | there are no console sales to factor in to the
               | comparison.
        
         | fareesh wrote:
         | I saw the tech demo for Witcher 1 and got the game subsequently
         | afterwards. I lived in Canada at the time.
        
         | antisthenes wrote:
         | Witch 2 definitely was. Witcher 1...maybe? I thought it was a
         | pretty mediocre game, so I doubt it was really that popular
         | anywhere outside of Poland.
         | 
         | What's impressive is how much better each sequel was compared
         | to the previous game. It was a giant leap in both graphics and
         | gameplay from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3.
        
         | wnevets wrote:
         | > I'm Polish so I genuinely don't know. Were the previous two
         | installments popular outside of Poland?
         | 
         | Not as much as the 3rd one but popular enough to get two
         | sequels.
        
         | 015a wrote:
         | Its not great data, but peak Steam player counts:
         | 
         | Witcher 1 Enhanced Edition: 12,685
         | 
         | Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition: 12,884
         | 
         | Witcher 3 Wild Hunt: 103,329
        
         | rowanG077 wrote:
         | Witcher 1 was pretty niche but I played it as a 15 year old rpg
         | fan and liked it a lot. It wasn't as well known mainstream as
         | mass effect but most gamers surely at least heard of it.
        
         | giobox wrote:
         | Witcher 1 not so much, but Witcher 2 had a pretty good 360 port
         | that a lot of people played in the West, and PC version did
         | well too - across all platforms 1.7 million copies sold by
         | 2012, another article I saw suggests 8 million by 2014.
         | 
         | I think thats getting towards very roughly ~1/4 the success of
         | Witcher 3, volume wise. Not bad, considering Witcher 3 volume
         | includes a portable Switch release.
         | 
         | > https://www.eurogamer.net/the-witcher-2-sales-
         | top-1-7-millio...
         | 
         | etc.
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | > Not bad, considering Witcher 3 volume includes a portable
           | Switch release.
           | 
           | I've seen the Switcher. Wasn't actually half as bad as I
           | anticipated. All the more surprising that CDPR is abandoning
           | their own engine in favour of UE5.
        
             | wwilim wrote:
             | I don't think they're abandoning it, they are just going to
             | hire a new team to remake W1 in Unreal Engine, while the
             | core team works on new games using proprietary tools
        
         | mkl95 wrote:
         | The Witcher 1 had a relatively large cult following for such an
         | obscure game. The Witcher 2 took it to the next level.
        
         | bravetraveler wrote:
         | I was a relatively active PC gamer in the US at the time they
         | all came out...
         | 
         | I somehow didn't know about Witcher until the third made a big
         | wave! Granted, I was only playing some of the most obvious/big
         | RPGs at the time
         | 
         | At the time I was more into FPS
        
         | AdrianB1 wrote:
         | Yes, they were very popular in some circles. My preferred
         | Witcher games are, in order, 3 then 1 then 2. I vividly
         | remember Witcher 1 for one very difficult battle in the first
         | part and some yellow fields later on. In Witcher 2 the combat
         | system was not that pleasant for me, so I did not play too much
         | even if I bought it. For Witcher 3 I waited a couple of years
         | after I bought it to play it, waiting for a new GPU that was
         | good enough to play on highest detail level.
        
         | Woeps wrote:
         | The first game was rough but very enjoyable, And I actually
         | liked the second one a lot as well. (even have the special
         | edition with the coin/maps/booklets and all that jazz)
         | 
         | Still haven't finished the main story of the third game
         | tough...
        
         | alasdair_ wrote:
         | When I first played W1, there was no North American release. I
         | only found it because metacritic listed it with fantastic
         | reviews in Europe and I tracked down a place to buy it there.
         | 
         | It was an amazing game at the time.
        
         | dragontamer wrote:
         | Witcher 2 was popular in my social circle in the USA. A lot of
         | us went back to Witcher 1 afterwards to get a better idea of
         | the story.
         | 
         | So I'd say Witcher 2 was when the series started to get
         | popular. Witcher 3 was riding on 2's coattails. Now that the
         | Netflix show is popular, Witcher1 does deserve a remake.
        
         | daemin wrote:
         | From what I saw Witcher 1 had a following in RPG players, back
         | in the day I remember seeing one guy at multiple lans play the
         | game. Witcher 3 though was the big breakout where I saw people
         | get excited for it and play it.
        
         | AmalgatedAmoeba wrote:
         | I can only speak for Czechia and here the Witcher II definitely
         | made a splash.
        
           | t0bia_s wrote:
           | I would say W1 was successful too. At least for me it has
           | stronger story telling then W2 which is too political for me.
        
         | dkersten wrote:
         | Popular might be a stretch, but they had their audience. I
         | played Witcher 1 shortly after it came out and I bought the
         | collectors edition of Witcher 2 on release. So there were
         | definitely fans out there. But it definitely wasn't popular in
         | the way that, say, Mass Effect (which came out around about the
         | same time) was popular.
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | Witcher 1 made a big splash among fans of PC RPGs and action
         | RPGs. Didn't hurt that it landed in the middle of a relative
         | doldrums for those genres--they got much healthier again a bit
         | after that.
         | 
         | 2 and 3 switched to a more console-friendly style of play and
         | had good success there, though, so I expect they did more to
         | spread the word than 1 did.
        
         | importantbrian wrote:
         | I can only really speak to my experience, but I don't really
         | remember Witcher 1 being a thing. Witcher 2 was pretty big and
         | then Witcher 3 was pretty massive.
        
         | brunoqc wrote:
         | > Were the previous two installments popular outside of Poland?
         | 
         | I would guess so, but the third one was even more popular.
         | Maybe 3 is a bit like Skyrim.
         | 
         | I only played the third one. One of my friends was already a
         | fan of the other 2 back then.
        
       | lakomen wrote:
       | I, for one, am tired of consuming warmed up content I've played
       | through before. Be it Diablo 2 Resurrected or Mass Effect or or
       | or. Create something new, don't refurbish old stuff. Such a
       | waste.
        
         | pavon wrote:
         | Many other people enjoy long running series, and CD Projekt is
         | perfectly capable of doing both. CP2077 was a new IP, and they
         | are planning yet another new IP, code named Project Hadar to
         | follow Witcher 4 and the next CP.
        
         | dkersten wrote:
         | It's a 15 year old niche game running on an old janky engine. A
         | lot of people haven't played it before, so personally I think a
         | remaster is actually warranted in this case, given the
         | popularity of the later games in the series.
        
       | 4pkjai wrote:
       | I don't know why, this makes me a bit sad. You can sort of feel a
       | game engine when you're playing a game. The GTA trilogy lost a
       | lot when they did their remastering project with a different
       | engine. Although I'm sure it can be done well.
       | 
       | StarCraft remastered was done really well, but I believe they
       | built on top of their existing engine.
        
         | Night_Thastus wrote:
         | Wasn't GTA the one where the "re-make" was done using a hot
         | garbage mobile port of the games? That would be why if so.
        
         | throw_m239339 wrote:
         | Why? the graphics and animation did not age very well, so they
         | need to be entirely redone, and the combat rethinked. But the
         | last act will look quite epic on a modern engine if done well.
         | Unreal use will allow faster development.
         | 
         | Witcher 1's main quest is the most interesting of the 3 games,
         | I hope they do not commit the mistake of adding a minimap to
         | casualize the remake, paying attention to the dialogues,
         | environmental details and exploring the maps is very much what
         | made the game interesting to me. It's one of these games where
         | you can get stuck if you are not paying attention to the story,
         | or miss certain timed events, which increases its replay value.
         | It's much more interesting that just spamming witcher senses
         | all the time to complete quests.
         | 
         | To those who didn't play the game, this is very much a
         | "detective" story and most quests are shrouded in mystery, it
         | can works ONLY if the player has to pay attention to the
         | dialogues, lore and story. It will not work if the player is
         | spoon-fed every little detail about who is whom, what potion to
         | use or the devs resorts to bringing back the "witcher senses".
         | 
         | Just like Witcher 2, one can "side" with either of 2 camps,
         | unlike Witcher 2, one can decide not to side with anybody,
         | although choosing the latter option might not lead to the most
         | positive outcome...
        
         | dkersten wrote:
         | I was a fan of the game, but the engines limitations did hurt
         | it in my opinion and the combat was its weakest aspect. The
         | story, characters, world and quests were its strong points. So
         | I'm greatly looking forward to this remake, if it provides all
         | the original content with less jankyness and smoother combat.
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | The GTA remaster issues were hardly due to the engine. People
         | over-focus on the engine. I wouldn't worry about this.
        
           | wiseowise wrote:
           | The graphics look plastic. Is it not because of an engine?
           | Serious question.
        
             | enragedcacti wrote:
             | It's hard to know for sure but most people believe they did
             | a ton of either super rushed manual work and/or AI
             | upscaling on the textures and models that would explain the
             | "plastic" look to everything. It doesn't really matter what
             | engine is backing it if the textures and modeling are bad.
             | And if they didn't spend the time to sort out material
             | properties then the engine won't treat skin any differently
             | than cloth, or cloth differently than metal, etc.
             | 
             | these are more examples of modelling issues but it shows
             | how little care and QA went into the remake:
             | 
             | they rounded out this 6-sided nut : https://old.reddit.com/
             | r/GTA/comments/quutz7/definitive_lazy...
             | 
             | hot dog fingers:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQWw0hHMUoc
        
             | moron4hire wrote:
             | I don't know of any engines that dictate material
             | properties. There are some where the default settings on
             | the default materials are questionable _cough_ Unity3D
             | _cough_. But a big studio game shouldn 't/wouldn't be using
             | the defaults on just about anything.
             | 
             | One of the biggest things indie game developers can do to
             | not look like an indie game is to stop using the default
             | settings on the default materials. Not necessarily even
             | using custom materials. Just don't use the default
             | settings.
        
             | exeldapp wrote:
             | I would say yes and no. Yes, obviously the renderer is
             | there but at the same time it's only doing what it was told
             | to do. Taking Unity and Unreal as examples, you can make
             | something look plastic, cartoony, realistic, a mixture, or
             | really anything you want. Usually there will be art
             | director(s) (or a someone with a similar title) that make
             | sure the art/graphics stick with a certain look and feel so
             | I would put the blame more on them than the engine.
        
             | redox99 wrote:
             | Of course not. Unreal Engine uses a PBR pipeline as any
             | modern engine does. If your materials look plastic it's
             | because that how you authored them, not because of the
             | engine.
        
         | serf wrote:
         | >don't know why, this makes me a bit sad. You can sort of feel
         | a game engine when you're playing a game.
         | 
         | absolutely. whenever a friend is playing anything with specific
         | shader/specular/lighting styles I always yell "Unity!" while
         | watching him. I'm generally dead-on accurate with those
         | guesses. It's definetly not coincidence at this point; there is
         | some default behavior or lighting gimmick I can generally
         | always cue in on with regards to Unity. I think it's their
         | style of specular lighting glow that gets painted onto way too
         | many things by most creators.
         | 
         | I don't use the engine myself, so I can't tell you exactly what
         | it is I hone in on, but I can for most titles.
        
           | redox99 wrote:
           | Default post processing and anti aliasing are usually dead
           | giveaways.
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | There's always been something about the Source engine that
           | felt distinctive. The lighting and physics feel weird and
           | creepy.
        
         | TAForObvReasons wrote:
         | Starcraft Remastered was designed with the explicit goal of
         | changing as little as possible. The target audience for the
         | remaster is well-versed in the bugs of the original game and
         | wanted them reproduced.
         | 
         | Compare with Warcraft III Reforged. Modding with the original
         | WC3 was extremely popular: DotA started as a mod for WC3, so
         | Blizzard should have focused on compatibility. Not doing so led
         | to the poor reception.
        
         | superdisk wrote:
         | The GTA trilogy remasters actually run on the original game
         | engine under the hood, the only thing they changed was the
         | renderer (Unreal Engine instead of RenderWare).
        
           | ThatPlayer wrote:
           | The modern DOOM 1/2 releases on Android/iOS/Switch/Xbox/PS
           | does something similar: it is using the original renderer but
           | uses Unity to handle input and output for easier portability.
        
         | dj_mc_merlin wrote:
         | > You can sort of feel a game engine when you're playing a
         | game.
         | 
         | This is nice usually, but such a curse for procedural games.
         | Once you start internalizing the RNG you stop thinking of
         | yourself as exploring an environment, and more in terms of
         | rolling dice: "oh, rolled a general shop, no mimic, one
         | fountain and the Gnomish Caves entrance". At least nethack has
         | enough crazy shit happening that it gives the levels
         | personality regardless.
         | 
         | Same thing with AI enemies in strategy/4X games. Deep down it's
         | just some form of RNG+rules based on "personality" values and
         | current situation, but there's no real strategy. Just a
         | simulation of it.
         | 
         | Which makes you think, with AlphaStar defeating pro players
         | since 2019, where's the AI 4X games deserve? While 4X games
         | might be crazy when good humans play multiplayer, the average
         | 4X solo player does a limited set of actions and uses much less
         | strategy than in StarCraft.
        
         | dragontamer wrote:
         | As someone who played a few hours of the 1st Witcher Game...
         | Good.
         | 
         | No one seems to care about Witcher 1's engine, because it was
         | hot garbage. Any engine (even an off-the-shelf one like
         | Unreal5) will be grossly superior to the trash that the
         | original game was.
         | 
         | This remake can have slow, barely workable controls and pretty
         | bad graphics and still be far better than the original game.
         | 
         | They really just need the Witcher 1 remade so that people have
         | an entry point into the story. The actual "gameplay" from the
         | original will _NOT_ be missed. IMO anyway.
        
           | verst wrote:
           | I played the Witcher 1 when it came out and thought it was a
           | brilliant game. I haven't tried going back to it ever. It
           | felt quite polished to me then. I'm curious what people feel
           | isn't approachable for today's audiences. Is is merely that
           | we are used to different visuals now?
           | 
           | What are these engine issues in Witcher 1 you speak of? As a
           | player I did not notice them back in the day.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | I loved the game and beat it twice (maybe 3 times? not
             | sure) but the engine performs like dogshit for the level of
             | graphical quality it delivers.
        
             | entropicdrifter wrote:
             | Not the person you're replying to, but the original Witcher
             | felt fine to me too, but I'm a lifelong PC gamer and the
             | interface/controls reminded me of older PC-only CRPGs like
             | Summoner or even Neverwinter Nights. I love those games,
             | but in terms of their control schemes they do feel clunky
             | compared to the more visceral controller-optimized and
             | streamlined Action RPG controls of The Witcher 2 and 3.
             | 
             | In other words, the first Witcher game is in more of a
             | niche genre with significantly less mainstream appeal in
             | terms of gameplay and UI.
        
               | skocznymroczny wrote:
               | It was based on the Neverwinter Nights 2 engine, so the
               | similarities to NWN are expected. Actually, from my
               | perspective, combat in W1 was a big improvement over the
               | turn based click and pray combat of NWN.
        
               | verst wrote:
               | I liked Neverwinter Nights 2 -- so no wonder I liked
               | playing The Witcher 1. I think I played on a very
               | underpowered laptop back then (as a college student), so
               | if the engine was sluggish I probably attributed that to
               | gaming on a laptop :D
        
             | AdrianB1 wrote:
             | It was very good for the time the game was launched, but it
             | is quite outdated. I loved the game, but it is in the
             | category of games I would love to play again, I install it,
             | then the graphics looks so bad it turns me down. Believe
             | me, I started playing computer games ~ 1986, so I know what
             | bad graphics is, but Witcher 1 is a lot more recent than
             | that and the expectations are a lot higher.
        
             | dragontamer wrote:
             | Its not the polish that was bad.
             | 
             | I've played many 3d action-RPG games. Zelda, Monster
             | Hunter, Dynasty Warriors, etc. etc. Witcher1's combat is by
             | far the worst of the series.
             | 
             | Just... laggy, non-responsive controls. But in a bad way
             | (ex: Monster Hunter is also laggy/non-responsive, but in a
             | way that's "obvious" that the slowdown is purposeful and
             | tactical. You need to be very careful about when you attack
             | or not attack vs various monsters in that game).
             | 
             | Witcher 1's combat in contrast, has a lot of repetition and
             | not a lot of depth IMO. At least, from what I remember.
             | Witcher2 onwards had much better ideas of "fun combat"
             | experiences.
             | 
             | --------
             | 
             | I can still go back to old PS2 era Dynasty Warriors, mash
             | square and have fun. Its not about "dated graphics". I
             | admit dynasty warriors is a mashy-heavy game with a casual
             | mindset, but I think Witcher couldn't really decide if it
             | wanted to be a punishing slow game (like Monster
             | Hunter/Souls series), or a faster twitch game, and just
             | weirdly plays in this unfun position between the two
             | extremes.
             | 
             | Its fine to have a slow punishing game (Monster Hunter /
             | Souls / etc. etc.), but you need a huge variety of bosses
             | to keep interest. Witcher 1 felt pretty stale after a short
             | time, since there's just not as much variety.
             | 
             | Somehow, I don't find Dynasty Warriors gameplay stale
             | (despite being a square-mash simulator). I don't fully
             | understand why however. I guess DW is more about
             | positioning of the player-character (the enemy army is
             | always winning where you are _not_ located, so Dynasty
             | Warriors feels more like a firefighter simulator, where
             | you're running around the battlefield trying to fix issues
             | in the army... rather than really being a combat game?)
        
               | kuschku wrote:
               | > But in a bad way (ex: Monster Hunter is also laggy/non-
               | responsive, but in a way that's "obvious" that the
               | slowdown is purposeful and tactical. You need to be very
               | careful about when you attack or not attack vs various
               | monsters in that game).
               | 
               | That's actually why I stopped playing Monster Hunter: I
               | really hate the non-responsiveness, it feels like wading
               | through molasses.
        
               | somenameforme wrote:
               | I think a big problem with Witcher 1 is that its vision
               | for combat was relatively novel and not well presented.
               | In the lore it's emphasized that fighting is supposed to
               | be a sort of graceful dance and so the combat tries to
               | mimic that. The combat is much more like a bemani
               | (beat/music type game) game than an action RPG, even
               | though it looks nothing like the former and everything
               | like the latter.
               | 
               | Once you 'get' this, everything makes way more sense, the
               | game flows, and it becomes really quite fun. I played it
               | when it first came out. I didn't get it, and quit before
               | beating the first chapter. I later replayed it, got it,
               | and ended up playing through it multiple times on max
               | difficulty.
        
           | cardanome wrote:
           | My first attempt didn't go well either but I am glad I gave
           | it a second chance. Once it starts winning you over, it is
           | really good.
           | 
           | The fighting system is pretty old-school but once you get
           | used to it, it is quite fun. It is very authentic to how
           | Geralt is fighting in the Witcher books. It is simply more
           | about rhythm and tactics than one might be used to.
           | 
           | Just because Witcher 1 is kind of hard to recommend for a
           | casual gamer in 2022, does not mean it is garbage. It is just
           | different. It has more of a niche appeal.
           | 
           | I am absolutely glad I got to play the original and some of
           | its charm are the things are probably going to be modernized
           | away in the remake.
        
           | User23 wrote:
           | The Witcher ran on a heavily modified version of the Aurora
           | engine, which was used for the Bioware Neverwinter Nights.
        
       | agilob wrote:
       | Has CDPR run out of ideas, but still had a bag of promises to
       | make? They promised CP77 extensions and multiplayer, The Witcher
       | 3 in 4k, now remaking Witcher 1? I'm kindof disappointed with
       | this news and not hearing updates about previous "updates".
        
         | tester756 wrote:
         | If you're interested in their strategy check out this
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EJmgTQ0O8k
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | And, it seems like a fantastic way to learn a new engine.
        
         | bravetraveler wrote:
         | While it's surely a constant, I think the entertainment
         | industries at large have really started to milk the nostalgia
         | cow hard
         | 
         | I could say a bunch of soft science things like, go with a sure
         | thing in an uncertain market, blah blah. I think it's simply
         | easier
        
           | conductr wrote:
           | The start was about 20 years ago, but I do agree
        
             | ska wrote:
             | It seems the start is always ~20 years ago from when you
             | talk about, regardless of when you talk about this sort of
             | thing.
        
               | conductr wrote:
               | It's when it's ready for a reboot! I strongly associate
               | it with the movie industry running out of new ideas after
               | the 90s. Episode 1 was 1999 for example, before that most
               | people thought Star Wars was over. Then the marvel stuff.
               | 
               | But maybe that's just me being nostalgic since that's
               | also around the time I began being an adult. It does seem
               | convenient how it's usually timed out so that parents can
               | geek out with their kids; so the industry inherits a new
               | generation of fans. My recent example of that is how
               | apparently Pokemon is very popular again. I was too old
               | to care in the 90s but those kids now have kids of
               | similar age as they were at the time.
               | 
               | The phenomenon as a whole didn't seem to exist so
               | strongly prior to that. In the 80s if my dad showed me
               | something he liked as a kid I just laughed it off as some
               | old toy that had no relevance to me. My 4 yo loves
               | Spider-Man and has no clue he's older than me. They made
               | a new show specifically targeting this age group (Spidey
               | and his Amazing Friends).
        
         | the_duke wrote:
         | Not at all, they have lots of new games coming.
         | 
         | Sibling comment has a link.
        
         | enragedcacti wrote:
         | Its a third party studio doing the remake, CDPR probably won't
         | be diverting many internal resources away from their existing
         | in-house projects for this.
         | 
         | also this is just follow-up to a previous announcement where
         | they announced 5 projects in various stages of development on
         | top of info about the CP2077 expansion:
         | https://ftw.usatoday.com/2022/10/cd-projekt-red-witcher-cybe...
        
           | agilob wrote:
           | They couldn't deliver 1 good project CP77, but now committing
           | to 5 at around the same time?
           | 
           | You said:
           | 
           | >Its a third party studio doing the remake, CDPR probably
           | won't be diverting many internal resources away from their
           | existing in-house projects for this.
           | 
           | but the link claims:
           | 
           | >On Tuesday, CD Projekt Red announced five all-new games
           | currently in development at the studio
           | 
           | Their stock price is near 5 year low, how can they afford it?
        
             | beezlebroxxxxxx wrote:
             | Cyberpunk sold 20 million copies. The game was a critical
             | disaster, to a certain extent, but was financially
             | successful for the studio in the long run. The Witcher 3 in
             | 2020 alone sold 30 million copies, so they're hardly
             | hurting for cash.
             | 
             | Also "currently in development" does not mean every game is
             | getting equal resources, or that each game is in the same
             | stage of development.
        
             | tester756 wrote:
             | >Their stock price is near 5 year low, how can they afford
             | it?
             | 
             | It recently went up almost 50%.
             | 
             | Like 2 months ago their price was around 77-80
             | 
             | Now it is around 120~
             | 
             | I expect (I bet my money on) it to be around 150 around
             | december/january
        
             | 988747 wrote:
             | > Their stock price is near 5 year low, how can they afford
             | it?
             | 
             | Stock price has nothing to do with how much money CDPR has
             | in their bank accounts. Stock trading is basically a public
             | opinion poll on the future of the company, but not a penny
             | from those trades actually goes to company accounts.
        
               | agilob wrote:
               | and if a company is trading low, their trust is also low,
               | am I wrong? They would will need to trick people into
               | giving them money upfront (preorders?) or borrow from 3rd
               | party to cover a product that will sell and bring cash.
               | 
               | nevertheless, I didn't mean they can't fund it because of
               | low stock price, they got lots of free money from Polish
               | government development fund, but CDPR delivered only 4
               | big games and only 2 were big hits, The Witcher and The
               | Witcher 3. CP77 sold in many copies, I have one too, but
               | I'm not buying them unless they prove it's worth the
               | price. They completely lost my trust and employees with
               | internal knowledge, who were committed to make Witchers a
               | success story.
               | 
               | Previously delivering 2 (or 3) good games, having stock
               | prices high during that time, getting free money from
               | development fund vs now stock price low, trust in company
               | and their quality dropped, 5 projects in progress? Aren't
               | they shooting too high?
        
               | airstrike wrote:
               | "Trust" is a broad term, so not the one I would use. It's
               | more about expectations of future dividends (and
               | expectations of other market participants' expectations
               | of future dividends, and that goes on until some Nth
               | derivative of the stock's underlying value, also because
               | "growth" is a derivative of "future dividends")
               | 
               | Nearly every stock in Tech is down a lot this year. High
               | growth, low profitability stocks are generally
               | underwater. You'd have to compare their stock to similar
               | companies to see if they are down _more_ or _less_ than
               | those comparable peers.
        
               | coredog64 wrote:
               | Not entirely true. An equity price in the toilet means
               | you might have to borrow money if you need a big chunk.
               | It also weakens your ability to use stocks to pay
               | employees which in turn requires additional cash outlays.
               | 
               | TL;DR: Companies still depend on equities as a funding
               | mechanism.
        
             | jvanderbot wrote:
             | >Their stock price is near 5 year low, how can they afford
             | it?
             | 
             | It's new to me that the company makes its money selling its
             | stock, not games.
        
               | badpun wrote:
               | Have you heard of Elon Musk?
        
             | viraptor wrote:
             | I don't have much info any their organisation and teams,
             | but it may not be a bad idea. Adding people to IT projects
             | beyond some threshold doesn't really make them faster and
             | spreading the risk across 5 projects may be better than
             | going all-in with one.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
         | On the other hand Geralt waves his sword above his head like an
         | idiot in Witcher 1. I hate remakes but if I had to have one
         | this would be one.
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/rkdbnv/started_play...
         | 
         | But yeah I want new stories more.
        
           | sylens wrote:
           | Yes, this is actually a game that would be well served by a
           | remake that makes it more accessible.
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | The top comment in that thread you linked explains that sword
           | movement is something from the books. No one's to say that'll
           | be removed in a remake.
        
             | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
             | I don't remember him doing that in the books haha. He was a
             | beautiful swordsman not a goofball.
        
         | zepppotemkin wrote:
         | GAMERS RISE UP!
        
       | yieldcrv wrote:
       | I couldn't get myself to play the first 2 Witcher games due to
       | the dated mechanics but I watched other people stream their play
       | throughs at the time.
       | 
       | > [removed] the playing cards players can earn that depict pinup
       | art of Geralt's various sexual partners. The system has been
       | criticized over the years for treating women's bodies as a reward
       | for player progression.
       | 
       | This pin-up card collection of your sex partners was edgy in 2007
       | and 2011 as well. Its not like it was an especially unenlightened
       | age of days bygone. The Pin-Up card system is definitely what put
       | it on the map. Its really funny that CD Project [may] opt to
       | launder its reputation now to reach a broader audience after only
       | getting on the map for being absurd and over the top. I'm not
       | advocating for anything, only observing.
       | 
       | The lesson broadcasted is that you have to do "degrading" and
       | shocking things like that to stand out at all. Kind of like how
       | many individuals get started in many industries to support
       | themselves.
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | I'm not sure "laundering reputation" is how I would frame "re-
         | evaluating including potentially objectionable content in a
         | remake".
        
           | yieldcrv wrote:
           | The reason I would frame it that way is because CD Projekt
           | has subsequently had a fall from grace and are on thin ice
           | regarding PR attack vectors
        
           | renonn wrote:
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | Meh. Steam's got a billion games now that do that exact thing.
         | Tons and tons of games did before it, too. The only notable
         | thing about it was having that kind of thing in a game that was
         | otherwise good enough and had enough else going on not to be
         | categorized _primarily_ as a porn game.
         | 
         | I'll just wait for it to be modded back in.
         | 
         | [EDIT] Actually a few other mainstream non-porn games have done
         | almost the same thing, since, too. The Saboteur comes to mind.
         | Some whole series are all about that sort of thing, like DOA.
        
         | Beltalowda wrote:
         | I played the Witcher when it was released back in the day; I
         | had heard some vaguely good things about it, and it seemed like
         | something I would enjoy. I had no idea the card thing existed
         | until I actually received one. I remember laughing at how silly
         | it was. I felt it kinda fit within the kind of semi-serious
         | adult theme of the game; "your mother sucks dwarven cock" etc.
         | From what I recall, the second game was a bit more serious;
         | never played the third one.
         | 
         | I think the cards had basically nothing to do with the game
         | success, and judging from the comments here, it seems the first
         | game wasn't even all _that_ successful in the first place.
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | They just replaced it with 3D sex scenes in the later ones,
           | AFAIK. But for some reason that was OK, while fade-to-black
           | and a pinup wasn't? It's weird.
        
             | yieldcrv wrote:
             | The 3D scenes show a collaboration with women
             | 
             | The cards show a "notch on your belt", which is something a
             | lot of people are sensitive to and don't want to
             | perpetuate, when given the choice
             | 
             | So that's what people are reacting to, not the mere
             | presence of sexual encounters and explicitness at all
             | 
             | Said another way: Of the subset of people that are fine
             | with explicit depictions in this medium, a broader subset
             | of them want to depict more women as collaborators as
             | opposed to prizes and collectibles. They found that
             | depiction detracted from this particular series.
        
       | vexatus wrote:
       | Remember: no preorders!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
       | Sometimes remakes can actually improve accessibility to an older
       | game with a dated engine/mechanics and make it more enjoyable for
       | newcomers to experience the earlier entries. See: Yakuza Kiwami
       | and Yakuza Kiwami 2 (remade using the excellent _Yakuza 0_ engine
       | /mechanics).
       | 
       | I do own Witcher 1/Witcher 2 (bought no-doubt during some Steam
       | sale for like $5-$15, tops), and I vaguely recall playing W1 for
       | like a half hour, then put it down and never touched it again.
       | But somehow I then put 90+ hours into Witcher 3.
       | 
       | So yes, the idea of Witcher 1's story remade into a modern engine
       | sounds great. Heck, I would've settled for just Witcher 3's
       | engine. I don't think I'd plop $60 for it--especially considering
       | I waited until I could grab W3 GOTY Edition for like $20 before
       | buying--but it's definitely something I'd eventually want to
       | check out.
        
         | rjh29 wrote:
         | I played W1 when it came out and it was great. But couldn't
         | imagine playing it after Witcher 3 because W3 is in a different
         | universe of quality and polish. A remake is fantastic news.
        
         | jdaw0 wrote:
         | I think yours is a pretty common experience considering that
         | Witcher 3 was a huge mass-market success and Witcher 1 was a
         | niche product made both by and for insane people. I say this as
         | a shameless Witcher 1 apologist.
        
           | Ntrails wrote:
           | I really wanted to play the games in order, but I found the
           | gameplay in 1 un-fun and quit.
           | 
           | I almost regret how long it put me off 3
        
         | tvb12 wrote:
         | I started to play, but never finished, both the first and
         | second Witcher games after also purchasing them on sale at
         | massive discounts. I gained an appreciation for advances made
         | in character movement and player input, including UI elements
         | like menus and pop-ups for quick actions. Old games play very
         | clunky.
        
       | ramosu wrote:
       | sounds like bad news for their internal engineering team
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | Provided there's any of it left after Cyberpunk.
        
           | fazfq wrote:
           | Or they can do like Rockstar and many others and outsource
           | the port.
        
       | impulser_ wrote:
       | People complaining about this being a remake, but I'm assuming
       | they made the remake as a way for their developers to get use to
       | Unreal 5 before making Witcher 4 which is also built using Unreal
       | 5.
       | 
       | Easier to build a game you already know in a new game engine than
       | to create a completely new game. Especially if you don't want the
       | game to be filled with bugs.
       | 
       | CD has always used in an house game engine for their games.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nvrspyx wrote:
         | I don't think that holds if you read the first paragraph of the
         | article. Fool's Theory, a separate studio, is doing the remake
         | in UE5; not CDPR. With that said, this will allow Fool's Theory
         | to help as a support studio for Witcher 4 after the remake
         | since they'll be using the same toolset.
        
           | whack24 wrote:
           | This reminds me of how Game Freak sent their recent Pokemon
           | remake out to another studio to work on with different
           | technology while Game Freak makes new franchise IP. 2
           | examples doesn't make a pattern but is this a known business
           | strategy within game development?
        
             | peruvian wrote:
             | Not only is this common but it's how some companies have
             | built their reputation and money, see Bluepoint: https://en
             | .wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluepoint_Games#Games_develope...
        
           | daemin wrote:
           | That's true, although Fool's Theory is full of former CDPR
           | people that worked on W3 and CP. I'm assuming it will be a
           | similar situation to that of Spokko where eventually it might
           | be brought under the CDP umbrella. (That's just speculation
           | though, I don't have any insider knowledge on this).
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | mortenjorck wrote:
           | Exactly; while CDPR and Fool's Theory will be working on
           | different games, they'll be able to share resources
           | extensively given the common platform. I wouldn't be
           | surprised if they divide up work on a lot of the Witcher-
           | specific extensions to Unreal's scripting, AI, and so on.
        
       | philliphaydon wrote:
       | Ohhhhhh totally gonna play this!
        
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