[HN Gopher] Odroid-H3 ___________________________________________________________________ Odroid-H3 Author : teekert Score : 118 points Date : 2022-10-28 14:22 UTC (8 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.hardkernel.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.hardkernel.com) | lob_it wrote: | Klasiaster wrote: | Who cares just about plain HW specs? Nowadays I also expect the | info on whether it supports UEFI booting, whether the firmware | gets updates (and if fwupd or not), and if mainline Linux can | boot and from what version. | | Too often these products have a limited lifetime (and are too | hard to use) due to lack of the above. | [deleted] | Svenstaro wrote: | I'm running the H3+ right now and I can tell you that I'm | booting plain UEFI with a plain Arch Linux and no special stuff | required at all. The firmware received 2 updates so far in 3 | months. | Klasiaster wrote: | Sounds better than the other boards, they could have written | this stuff as selling point. | noncoml wrote: | AliExpress has some interesting pc's based on N6005 on similar | price point. Search for Topton N6005 | eneumann wrote: | Word of caution to anyone thinking of using this for pfsense: the | realtek 2.5G drivers are not included in the pfsense image and | have to be installed manually. A real pain if you don't have easy | access to another freebsd machine. | sliken wrote: | Nice unit, I tried to buy similar as a home router using the | Odroid $47 4 x 2.5G daughter board. Sadly the chip shortage | killed the H2 plus off. | | However there's now a zillion celeron+6x2.5G units out there | cheap, see https://www.servethehome.com/category/networking/ for | variants with N6005, i7-1165G7, N5095, and similar with 4 or 6 | 2.5G ports. | | If you want an ARM variant, this one has 1G + 2x2.5G: | | https://liliputing.com/nanopi-r6s-is-a-single-board-pc-with-... | bubblethink wrote: | As others have pointed out, the value prop of these boards is | running thin. STH covers a bunch of similar products, and this is | a tough sell at $165. You can find many similar jasper lake | router boards with 4x 2.5 Gbe in a similar price range, but | they'll come in a proper case with a power supply. | pizza234 wrote: | Can you provide some references (to production products)? I | couldn't find any STH brand. | cptskippy wrote: | STH = Serve The Home | | STH is a review website and YouTube channel that reviews a | lot of prosumer and enterprise grade equipment. | sliken wrote: | Just look for the small router/switch looking pics with 4 or | 6 ports on the front: | https://www.servethehome.com/category/networking/ | | They review half a dozen of them or so. Most with the N4000, | N5000, and N6000 under $200. | StephenSmith wrote: | Does anyone know how this compares to something like the NVIDIA | Jetson Nano? | | https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-nano-developer-... | flatiron wrote: | Different use cases. Jetson is for open CL. This is a SBC for | general server/light desktop usage. | StillBored wrote: | Yah, its cool, but as mentioned in the pi thread, there are a | pile of these jasper lake nuc's available via large retailers for | $100-200, some better some worse, but in most cases they come | with ram, storage, case and powersupply for those prices. | | for example, search for beelink. | sliken wrote: | Indeed, there's a family of them with the N4000, N5000, N6000 | families and even the i3/i5/i7 with 4-6 2.5G ports. | | There's a fair number at: | https://www.servethehome.com/category/networking/ | capableweb wrote: | Do those come with two ethernet ports, two DDR4 slots (up to | 64GB), eMMC, M.2 _and_ two SATA ports? | | For me, this almost looks like an instant buy. | katmannthree wrote: | Generally not all of those. They do come with a case, active | cooling, ~~far better graphics performance, and fewer | software headaches due to being amd64 instead of aarch64 | though~~ nevermind, forgot that this is jasper lake too. | capableweb wrote: | Adding the H3+, power supply, fan and case to the cart | reveals a total of ~180 USD, that's a pretty good price for | what you get. I agree that the graphics might not be the | best in class, but it's also not the worst. Overall I feel | like it's a pretty neat price. | BackBlast wrote: | The iGPU on Jasper Lake CPUs is actually pretty good, | particularly for the price. Much more potent than | previous iterations of this class of CPU. | devonkim wrote: | Not just gigabit or 100 mbit Ethernet ports either but 2.5 | gbps and Realtek at that (ironically people have been | complaining more about Intel NICs than Realtek recently but | that's anecdotal still IMO). There's also other factors like | GPIO pins as well. This is a board better suited for | relatively higher performance and power efficient embedded | projects by far than what most OEMs will produce. | cptskippy wrote: | Anecdotally I just upgraded my Server with hand-me-downs | from my Desktop including a main board with integrated | Intel NIC. | | I couldn't get the NIC to work on Ubuntu or Windows Server | 2019. | | I will see if I can dig up the part number but iircc Intel | just stopped supporting quite a few product lines including | a line of NICs for integration into main boards. So perhaps | that's where all the reports are coming from? | | I was surprised because I assumed the NIC would just work | because it was Intel. | | * It's an Intel I219-V chip | toast0 wrote: | > ironically people have been complaining more about Intel | NICs than Realtek recently but that's anecdotal still IMO | | I'm not sure if Realtek is getting better, I've heard a lot | of issues with Intel 2.5G nics; people say some revs of the | hardware are unusable at 2.5G (but do work fine at 1G). | Personally, I've only got good things to say about Intel 1 | and 10G nics I've worked with. | | For me, Realtek 1G works ok until it doesn't, it's possible | to overwelm the hardware with traffic and then you get bad | behavior --- queues get stuck or seem to get stuck and the | queue processing doesn't always fully reset when you tell | it to --- this can lead to wild writes, following | descriptors that the OS thought were dead. Sometimes better | results with Realtek's drivers than open source drivers, | but they frob the hardware with crypticly named defines, | and I've seen them send pause frames (which nobody wants) | with no way to disable. On one machine, using Realtek's | drivers results in immediate kernel panics, so it's not | universally great. The interrupt design is poor anyway --- | MSI-X dates from 2002, they could have used a separate irq | for rx, tx, and misc, rather than a single interrupt and a | status register. But that might be ok if the status | register worked properly. It's too easy to have timing | issues when poking the status register and then you don't | get interrupts you should. I haven't touched their 2.5g | hardware, hopefully they fixed some stuff. | Semaphor wrote: | Search where? Because I can only find them for 350EUR+ | StillBored wrote: | The top of the pi thread has this one: | | (16G ram, dual nic, 512G ssd) for $190 right now. | | https://www.amazon.com/Processor-Beelink-Computer-Support- | Di... | | If you lower the ram/ssd you can find them for $120 or so, | some also have the dual 2.5G adapters, and as the link up | thread shows its possible for ~200 to even get them with 4+ | 2.5G links. | | Granted a lot of these are "deals" rather than MSRP, but | right now the "deals" seem to be the normal state of affairs, | although it was mentioned that they have been slightly | cheaper in the past couple weeks. | Semaphor wrote: | I guess those sales are US only, prices here in Germany are | far higher. | Severian wrote: | The Jasper chip should be able to be used with hypervisors as it | has VT-x and VT-d. Wish they listed the chipset for the Ethernet | however, as VMware 7.x/8.x only supports a limited number (unlike | 6.x which allowed community drivers). You might be able to host a | handful of small low IO/CPU VMs on this. | | EDIT: Found the block diagram and these are Realtek RTL8125B. Not | compatible with ESXi 7/8.. can use under 6.7 but I believe that's | out of support now :/ | sliken wrote: | For such a small system VMware seems like a weird choice. Why | not proxmox? | Severian wrote: | Mainly for homelab use to complement work environment. | rcarmo wrote: | Or just use Proxmox and fill it with dozens of LXC containers | :) | Severian wrote: | Indeed. Regretfully I would like to use this with the | software I help support, which only runs under the major 2 | players (VMware / Hyper-V). | olvy0 wrote: | There's also the CompuLab products, for example the fitlet 2. | | https://fit-iot.com/web/products/fitlet2/ | | https://fit-iot.com/web/products/fitlet2/fitlet2-specificati... | | Almost 8 years ago I bought their older model, Intense PC, to use | it as our living-room "multimedia" machine even since. It's | running Linux (currently latest Mint), without any problems all | these years, including zero driver problems (a rarity among other | Linux systems I've used). And of course no noisy fans since it | has none, its passive cooling is really good. | | https://www.fit-pc.com/web/products/intense-pc/ | FloatArtifact wrote: | I wish they would have up to eight at 6 to 8 SATA ports. Then it | could be a proper nass. | toast0 wrote: | I've seen some pci-e m.2 5x sata boards. That would get you to | 7 ports. You can boot from emmc (i assume) if you don't want to | boot from your array. | pizza234 wrote: | I own an H2, and I strongly suggest them as middle ground between | a PC and an (SBC) ARM. One of the main advantages is support, | both in terms of applications (some programs may not yet compile | on ARM), and kernel (although (some) ARM SBC can run with a stock | kernel, it's advices to run a specific kernel to run optimally). | The H2 also run impressively cool, and I suppose the H3 does, as | well. | | Note though, that RPis have never been the most price effective | ARM solution, as Hardkernel has always had more powerful and/or | cheaper alternatives. Their current N2+ is probably both more | powerful and cheaper than the equivalent RPi. | bravetraveler wrote: | I own one also, while I do recommend them... I would also | recommend some caution if planning to use Linux | | I'm not sure if this is a common/repeat thing, but for _mine_ I | need to maintain a build of the Realtek kernel modules out of | tree | | If I try to use the discovered/automatic/inline driver... it'll | drop out if I try to saturate the link. | | It's only when I blacklist this module and compile/use the one | from Realtek that it works reliably | | edit: This has been consistent through about a year of Fedora | kernel releases, for what it's worth -- rather leading edge. | reachableceo wrote: | On all Linux distros on all hardware , one should use the | (latest(stable)) vendor drivers. :) | | The distro drivers (and/or) kernel drivers, are almost always | garbage. Also make sure the NIC firmware is up to date. | bravetraveler wrote: | I appreciate you taking the time, but this isn't quite true | | For some vendors or kernels, certainly | | However, this completely disregards the work companies like | Intel and AMD do to upstream their drivers, or the leagues | of individual maintainers | | In many cases there is no difference, the driver in the | kernel is the upstream one | | Nvidia has been a notable exception, but they're slowly | improving by going (partially?) open source | | Realtek specifically has problems due to their shared | driver core. For example, it often can't reliably tell the | difference between an r8125 and r8169 | eqvinox wrote: | > On all Linux distros on all hardware , one should use the | (latest(stable)) vendor drivers. :) | | Care to provide any rationale? | | > The distro drivers (and/or) kernel drivers, are almost | always garbage. | | My experience is the exact opposite, vendor drivers are | almost always garbage, and the kernel drivers _just work_. | Brian_K_White wrote: | I must say the exact opposite. | pizza234 wrote: | Based on the UK reseller, Ubuntu 20.04 supports the ethernet | chipset out of the box, while 18.04 doesn't. | | I run on an unmodified 18.04 though (kernel v5.4), so I think | that the support has been also added in a more recent 18.04 | LTS patch version. | alias_neo wrote: | Oof, speaking of the UK reseller; that PS277 after tax | ($320 US) is quite a markup from the $165 (presumably plus | tax) on the hardkernel site. | bravetraveler wrote: | Interesting! I don't so much have an issue with support, | but stability. | | I'd be curious to know if you're connected at 1 or 2.5G, | and if 2.5, how it does if held at that level for about a | minute | | An iperf3 test or two is usually enough to make it drop | until I reboot | | Where with the compiled module it's rock solid | djchen wrote: | What distro and kernel version are you running on there? The | Realtek 2.5G NICs should work natively with a recent kernel. | bravetraveler wrote: | Funny you ask! I just edited this in, realizing it was | relevant. | | It's quite odd, this is with Fedora -- the current/latest | release for about the past year (34 through 36). | | It's seen quite a healthy number of 5.x kernels, but every | time I try to go without I reluctantly have to build it | again | | It'll work fine, for a time, but when I really put stress | on that link it'll drop | | Edit: This is trained at multi-gig too -- going to a 10GbE | Mikrotik switch. | | I haven't tried testing reliability at 1G -- it's probably | better, but I'd like the speed... I still have yet to try a | 6.y kernel on it | zerd wrote: | No guarantee that it'll fix it but for me it helped to | disable ASPM, details in | https://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?t=39678 | bravetraveler wrote: | Certainly worth a try, thank you! | | Seeing they have a kernel PPA makes me suspect too that | there's some patchwork going on, where I'm using vanilla | Fedora kernels | heresie-dabord wrote: | I was an early adopter of Hardkernel's Odroids, for better | (size, performance:cost) and for worse (longevity). | | This looks like a winner in every way. x86_64 | for longevity and support, tested with Ubuntu $latest LTS | decent CPU, better than Raspberry Pi RAM up to 64GB, | two SO-DIMM slots, up to 32GB per slot M.2 NVMe storage | 2 x 2.5Gbit Ethernet ports 2 x SATA 3.0 ports | Intel UHD Graphics, HDMI 2.0 and DP 1.2 video outputs | moffkalast wrote: | Not only that, but after some digging it seems that the GPIO | header is actually not half bad either despite it being | somewhat small: https://wiki.odroid.com/_detail/odroid-h3/har | dware/h3_24pinm... | | Supports i2c, UART, USB, and hopefully manual pin control | too. That's already miles ahead of a NUC in terms of | interfacing. | eqvinox wrote: | > Supports i2c, UART, USB, and hopefully manual pin control | too. | | From the set of pins provided I wouldn't get any hopes up | for manual pin control. All pins are single-function, USB | pins are almost never switchable (because they're high- | speed analog-ish PHY functions), and UART & I2C are not | GPIO-capable functions on most x86 platforms. | moffkalast wrote: | Well that sucks if true, but at least an i2c GPIO | expander/servo board is not out of the question I guess. | ThrowawayR2 wrote: | Nice to see a successor to the H2/H2+ finally. | | > Power consumption: IDLE : [?]1.9W | | Better idle power than a Raspberry Pi 4 plus it has functioning | suspend modes. | moffkalast wrote: | After all these years I still can't believe the Pi 4 has no low | power mode and uses like 2 W when completely shut down. Like | seriously how can you mess up so badly. | | 'Fewer components', yadda yadda, and on the other hand they | manage to include a full headphone jack that's completely | unusable due to induced noise... just _sigh_ | hadlock wrote: | I haven't seen a corrupted SD card on an SBC in, well since | at least 2015. I guess it's possible under heavy read/write | but I've not experienced it and I tinker with the stuff at | least a couple times a year. | beebeepka wrote: | Really? My Pi managed to corrupt two 128gb cards in 2 years | or so. It absolutely happens. I was running light web apps | with less than 10 users, hence minimal writes, especially | for cards this big | cptskippy wrote: | I run a couple Raspberry Pi 2s and they average about 1 | SD card a year between them. | alias_neo wrote: | They have 2 dots in there, "1..9W" so I believe it's 1-9W not | 1.9W. | | Hard to say though. | tym0 wrote: | If this can replace the laptop I am running as plex server and | with the current price of electricity of the UK, it could pay | itself pack in less than five months... | sliken wrote: | As someone else mentioned it's 1-9W not 1.9W for the H3 and | H3+. | | I don't particularly trust the numbers, generally the N6005 | runs hotter than the N5105, which makes sense since it's the | same process and largely the same chip with more GPU EUs. | | ServeTheHome mentions VERY similar boxes (same CPUs) "At idle, | we saw between 10-12W depending on single versus double SODIMM | configurations. Maximum power consumption hit just over 30W. | Both at idle and at maximum, this is significantly higher than | the J4125, but one also gets more performance, so there is a | clear trade-off. At the top end, adding ~5W over the N5105 was | unexpected based on similar TDPs." | | On the N5105 (they reviewed at least two) "Power was not a | winning point of this solution. At idle, we saw between 10-12W | depending on single versus double SODIMM configurations. | Maximum power consumption hit 24.5W even with the Topton | configured (512GB/16GB) unit. There is clearly room to go up | from there. This is a lot higher on both idle and maximum power | consumption than the Celeron J4125 that we looked at | previously." | tbyehl wrote: | I suspect that H3/H3+ numbers are on the DC side with an eMMC | module, a single DDR4 SO-DIMM of the lowest capacity, with | the most aggressive power management settings, and nothing | else attached. 1.9w idle is plausible but not what people are | going to see with a realistic running configuration measured | from the AC end. | driverdan wrote: | Has anyone tried one of these for 4k plex transcoding? 32 EUs | isn't a lot but may be enough for a couple of streams. | throwaway81523 wrote: | 4932 passmark according to this: | https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?id=4565 | | That is pretty respectable. But, this is a $165 board, so it | seems kind of niche compared to a small PC motherboard at around | half the price, unless I'm way out of date. | jcrawfordor wrote: | I actually had an ODroid H2 that failed maybe 6 months ago (not | by any fault of its own really, it was installed in a | "difficult" environment and probably got much hotter than was | reasonable). I went shopping around for a newer replacement and | was surprised to find that the market of very small, e.g. nano- | ITX embedded motherboards has basically dried up and at that | point it was very difficult to find something that was even | comparable with the H2 at the same price point. Much of what I | was seeing were $150 boards with very old Celeron chips that | underperformed the H2 (due to being older designs mostly, but | still being manufactured). I think ARM adoption is large enough | that there's not much of a market for x86 embedded boards that | isn't heavy equipment that's very price insensitive, and even | then the fact that most of the options are built around 9 year | old processors suggests that this market might be mostly legacy | products. | | You could probably save a bit of money, but I would guess not | more than $40 or so, by buying a motherboard and socketed | processor separately, a more conventional PC setup. But these | usually aren't readily amenable to completely passive cooling | which is an important criteria for me (and off the shelf | passive coolers for even modest TDPs are expensive on their | own), and it's also hard (maybe impossible?) to find the dual | network interfaces in a setup that would come in below $165. | | In my case I ended up going with a NUC and external RAID | controller/drive enclosure but it was an appreciably more | costly setup-admittedly for a much higher end processor, but I | think I ended up at around $500 before buying drives for the | external enclosure which of course ended up as the largest | cost. | | The application is a video surveillance NVR, I wanted x86 as | the commercial software is Windows-based and not built for ARM. | 2.5GbE network interfaces were not important (the bottleneck | would be the archival spinning drives well before that), but | dual network interfaces were as the existing setup was based on | a dedicated surveillance switch running off the second | interface of the NVR and I like that this is a simple setup | with fewer configuration points than a VLAN hosted on the core | switch (there's a reason most commercial appliance NVRs are set | up this same way). | hedora wrote: | Wow, this is 80% as fast as my decade-old gaming PC. Now, if | only it had a PCIe slot that I could plug a discrete GPU into, | I could cut our electricity bill by a few percent. | | Edit: A sibling comment suggests looking at bee-link. It's | definitely slower than my gaming PC, but it is getting close | with integrated graphics, and is in a comparable price bracket | to a hypothetical O-Droid-H3 with a PCIe slot: | | Bee-link GTR6 6900HX: $539. incl. board + cpu + integrated GPU | + case | | O-Droid-H3: $465 ($165 + $300 Radeon RX 6600xt). incl. board + | cpu + incompatible PCIe video card | | https://www.bee-link.com/catalog/product/index?id=383 | | It'd be within a factor of two of the old upgraded desktop and | the H3 + discrete GPU, but in a much slicker package: | | https://howmanyfps.com/en-de/graphics-cards/comparisons/amd-... | nix0n wrote: | This isn't just a small motherboard, it includes the CPU also. | aliqot wrote: | What small pc mobo/chip combos would you recommend at around | half the price? | pizza234 wrote: | In addition to the sibling comment, form factor is an | advantage, for those looking for a small machine (Mini ITX != | Nano ITX; the H* are actually even smaller than Nano-ITX). | | Hardkernel produces several very interesting boxes for H2 (I | suppose also for the H3); I think there were 5 or 6 at the | time, for different use cases. There was a very small one that | fitted two 2.5" SSDs. They're all ugly, low quality, and | tedious to assemble, but they're very small and relatively | cheap. | Semaphor wrote: | The cases offer great options, i just wish they also had a | pricier case that doesn't look like crap. | ratiolat wrote: | Oh boy. I'd buy this instantly if it was AMD. Is there comparable | alternative which uses AMD CPU? | bubblethink wrote: | AMD ones exist, but are more expensive: | https://www.loksing.com.cn/products/pre-sale-amd-ryzen-r5-56... | chromatin wrote: | This looks like a great chance to ask: | | Besides the ODROID-Hn series, what other single-board computers | have dual ethernet? Very few, AFAICT. For router use-case, the | alternatives suggested (buy an older NUC, for instance) don't | work. | sangnoir wrote: | > For router use-case, the alternatives suggested | | Would you consider USB Ethernet adapters for the second port? | Those cost about $15 (1 gigabit) | easygenes wrote: | NanoPi R5S has dual 2.5Gb and a 1Gb. [1] 1: htt | ps://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/product&produ | ct_id=287 | sliken wrote: | https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/product. | .. | | Double the ram, faster CPU, and double the price. | easygenes wrote: | Oh nice, those are a good deal. Looks like the cheapest | board with RK3588S announced yet, and with all that | ethernet to boot! Those were just launched a couple of days | ago, looks like. [1][2] 1: | https://liliputing.com/nanopi-r6s-is-a-single-board-pc- | with-rk3588s-8gb-ram-and-three-ethernet-ports-for-119/ | 2: https://www.cnx- | software.com/2022/10/28/nanopi-r6s-rockchip-rk3588s-router- | mini-pc-dual-2-5gbe-gbe-hdmi-2-1/ | bubblethink wrote: | Look around at STH forums. There are a bunch of jasperlake | products with 4x or 6x 2.5 Gbe. This is one such seller: | www.loksing.com.cn . You can also find them on aliexpress. | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote: | Why wouldn't a NUC work? I have a fanless Zoltac with dual | nics. I use it as a media PC , but presumably it would work | fine as a router. A cursory glance at Zoltac's page shows they | still produce a variety of new configurations. | jesperwe wrote: | THANK YOU a thousand times for providing _actual_ power | consumption specs! (Sorley missing from most SBC product | pages...) | sliken wrote: | As mentioned elsewhere, it's 1-9W not 1.9W idle. Other similar | products idle at 10-12 watts with the same CPU. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-10-28 23:01 UTC)