[HN Gopher] The mysticism of Alan Watts (2018)
___________________________________________________________________
The mysticism of Alan Watts (2018)
Author : sacrosanct
Score : 83 points
Date : 2022-10-29 18:50 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.philosophyforlife.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.philosophyforlife.org)
| Stamp01 wrote:
| Alan Watts is a sore subject to me. I've given his philosophies a
| fair shake and many don't ring true for me.
|
| However, I've met several people in the tech industry who are
| adherents. Whenever any conversation entered slightly
| philosophical in nature, which happens unusually often in tech in
| my experience, the individuals I'm thinking of would immediately
| ask, "Well, have you ever read or listened to Alan Watts?" I'd
| simply say something like, "Yeah, but he doesn't really do it for
| me." And I'm met with this condescending "You'll understand/agree
| when you get older (aka wiser)" response. I'm 35, not 15.
|
| Anyway, yeah, I'm sure it's not all Alan Watts stans, but isn't
| it weird that it happened 3 times? I now regard advertising Alan
| Watts as a red flag.
| paraph1n wrote:
| Can you elaborate on what doesn't "ring true" for you?
|
| It's an odd statement to make, since these aren't true/false
| facts we're talking about.
| [deleted]
| eternalban wrote:
| Since Rumi was mentioned as one of the messengers of "joyful"
| spirituality, just for the record, Rumi extensively used the
| story of Joseph (as told in Quran) as a metaphor for the journey
| of the successful spiritual seeker. A key element of that story
| was the fact of 10 near-murderous 'brothers'. Also the fact that
| 11 stars and the sun and the moon bowed to Joseph in his dream.
| Rumi's mysticism very much belongs to the category of spiritual
| schools that assert the existence of an 'elect of spirit' among
| humanity, who further require 'training' under the guidance of an
| adept (the Pir or Elder) involving great demands on one's will
| power and mental states. (Which was basically the guru mentioned
| in the article's point.)
| teddyh wrote:
| What a hatchet job. The phrase "damning with faint praise" comes
| immediately to mind.
| [deleted]
| augustuspolius wrote:
| Also an immediate intentional framing by comparing Watts to
| Peterson, who the author obviously despises and knows the
| audience will disapprove.
| bagpuss wrote:
| this is a nice piece of music by Nuages which features some
| passages from Alan Watts https://youtu.be/9RMHHwJ9Eqk
| oh_sigh wrote:
| While I don't think blindly emulating successful people will
| necessarily make you successful, I am even more confident that
| taking life advice from an abusive alcoholic is an even worse
| idea.
| augustuspolius wrote:
| Who is that healthy perfect human we should all be taking life
| advice from?
| darepublic wrote:
| Went on a spree of listening to Alan Watts videos on YouTube some
| years back during a major bout of depression. It was after
| accidentally stumbling across a programme about him on the CBC.
| The premise of his talks would intrigue me but honestly I didn't
| find much to remember in those talks, and the main benefit is
| they were vaguely comforting.
| globalreset wrote:
| Watts is awesome. I sense lazy Millennial nihilism.
| addcn wrote:
| "Letting go" doesn't mean "giving up".
|
| That won't make sense written down unless you've done a whole lot
| of meditating.
| mistermann wrote:
| An _interpretation and characterization_ of Watts, by a human who
| seems not aware of that level.
|
| Watts was surely flawed in many ways, but his true value to
| humanity is an ongoing mystery, although such things often appear
| very much otherwise.
|
| Woo woo!
| nerfhammer wrote:
| At some point I realized his "solution" to philosophical problems
| was always to get really vague and hand-wavey
| theonemind wrote:
| I think we in the modern era have some tremendous advantages in
| understanding Eastern spirituality in light of developments in
| neuroscience, Western philosophy, and a longitudinal overview of
| several traditions like Advaita, Neo-Advaita, Taoism, Dzogchen,
| Mahamudra, Mahayana, and the original Zen.
|
| I think they point toward the ability to shift one's way of
| _being_ in the world using one 's whole capacity as a human
| being. Generally, an interconnectedness or oneness counts as a
| fundamental insight; however, I think these traditions have
| doctrines like karma so that such an insight does not become a
| regressive excuse for lackluster moral behavior. For instance,
| the human frontal lobes give us distance in the world, the
| ability not to react, to take a different perspective. This
| enables the Bodhisattva ideal of Mahayana Buddhism using the
| highest faculties available to man--necessary distance to be
| _guardians of the world_ , not merely to, say, become stoically
| un-reactive, or to distance one's self from moral responsibility.
|
| The "supreme insight" preached by Alan Watts seems ironically
| potentially harmful if not well-understood and grounded, a flight
| crashed halfway so that it would've been better not to get on the
| plane--to let the original error of separation in through the
| back door, ethereal "insight" not _bound together_ with the rest
| of relative existence. Spiritual traditions have these proverbial
| cracked jugs with real insight of a sort, like Chogyam Trungpa.
| duvenaud wrote:
| Can you explain a bit what neuroscience adds to the picture? To
| use your example, once we know that humans can take a
| difference perspective, what does it help to know which
| structure in particular is responsible for that ability?
| theonemind wrote:
| It helps to know that the shift has a solid foundation, that
| it's not some kind of act one just needs to put on forever.
|
| We know, for instance, about mirror neurons, and that seeing
| some else's pain can light up some of the same parts in the
| brain of the observer. You can tune them out, or strengthen
| them.
|
| We know that the right hemisphere has entirely non-verbal
| modes of thought and generally sees the whole without
| breaking things into pieces--we don't have to _put together_
| some mystical oneness, but just tune into those aspects of
| our own being.
|
| Without understanding these things about the brain, I'd take
| pointing out the potential for transformation as just
| _moralizing_ and _conceptualizing_ , just a draining act to
| put on for all time. There's a solid foundation to build on--
| it will run on the hardware, it's not just emulation.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| It sounds like you have just almost like contempt for these
| beliefs until they're validated by an authority in the form
| of materialist science? That what neuroscience contributes
| is not anything to the practice itself, but just permission
| for you to participate.
| theonemind wrote:
| I'd agree it's not anything to the practice itself, but I
| would argue that it is something to a path to practice.
| Arguably, Elon Musk found out what happens if you commit
| to large purchases without due diligence. What else would
| make me think that it's even an executable algorithm? How
| do you get from non-belief to belief at all? Why
| investigate if the whole thing looks shaky or like some
| kind of weird scam just to invest society with morality?
|
| A lot of religious trappings seem partially to function
| as theater, show, or advertising. This generates some
| interest without understanding. The first understanding
| and further interest will probably come intellectually
| thereafter.
|
| The Dalai Lama has characterized one of the strengths of
| Tibetan Buddhism as laying out a complete path, no
| "missing steps." In his Introduction to Buddhism, he
| describes how a beginner might start out with analytical
| contemplation before meditation, getting familiar with
| the idea.
|
| I think that understanding this sort of thing can help
| the thing scale. Quite a few traditions hold that you
| _must_ have living transmissions of sorts, or need a
| guru. I think that serves, in part, to show in a living
| being that it _is_ possible and _not_ an act...but we don
| 't have 3.5 billion spiritual masters to mentor 3.5
| billion other people, and I don't see anything wrong with
| replacing a little trip or roadblock on the path with
| intellectual understanding. The traditions,
| understanding, and concepts all exist to create a
| workable path. Scaffolding doesn't have anything to do
| with having a building in the end, but if you want a
| building, you'll probably find scaffolding useful along
| the way.
| rendall wrote:
| Hmm. Well, personally speaking, I find the concept of
| "enlightenment" itself to be delusional at best, but probably
| actual grifting. So, to my mind, someone insisting that Watts
| isn't doing it right seems rather rich. But, to each their own,
| and if I can live and let live, then the author can.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Every time Baizhang, Zen Master Dahui, gave a dharma talk, a
| certain old man would come to listen. He usually left after the
| talk, but one day he remained. Baizhang asked, "Who is there?"
|
| The man said, "I am not actually a human being. I lived and
| taught on this mountain at the time of Kashyapa Buddha. One day
| a student asked me, 'Does a person who practices with great
| devotion still fall into cause and effect?' I said to him, 'No,
| such a person doesn't.' Because I said this I was reborn as a
| wild fox for five hundred lifetimes. Reverend master, please
| say a turning word for me and free me from this wild fox body."
| Then he asked Baizhang, "Does a person who practices with great
| devotion still fall into cause and effect?"
|
| Baizhang said, "Don't ignore cause and effect."
|
| Immediately the man had great realization. Bowing, he said, "I
| am now liberated from the body of a wild fox. I will stay in
| the mountain behind the monastery. Master, could you perform
| the usual services for a deceased monk for me?"
|
| Baizhang asked the head of the monks' hall to inform the
| assembly that funeral services for a monk would be held after
| the midday meal. The monks asked one another, "What's going on?
| Everyone is well; there is no one sick in the Nirvana Hall."
| After their meal, Baizhang led the assembly to a large rock
| behind the monastery and showed them a dead fox at the rock's
| base. Following the customary procedure, they cremated the
| body.
|
| That evening during his lecture in the dharma hall Baizhang
| talked about what had happened that day. Huangbo asked him, "A
| teacher of old gave a wrong answer and became a wild fox for
| five hundred lifetimes. What if he hadn't given a wrong
| answer?"
|
| Baizhang said, "Come closer and I will tell you." Huangbo went
| closer and slapped Baizhang's face. Laughing, Baizhang clapped
| his hands and said, "I thought it was only barbarians who had
| unusual beards. But you too have an unusual beard!"
| rendall wrote:
| That koan has an obscure codicil. Not many know it, but if
| this response is given, the student is known to be
| enlightened, and can skip all further training:
|
| _Huongbo looks dazedly up from the smoking ash pile of the
| former fox spirit and into the eyes of the grinning Baizhang.
| Speechless at first, he finally stammers "Baizhang. That's
| quite an act. What do you call it?" Baizhang wraps both fists
| in Huongbo's beard, pulls him close and screams "The
| Aristocrats!!"_
| zozbot234 wrote:
| > the student is known to be enlightened, and can skip all
| further training
|
| Wait, I thought we all had Buddha-nature and were already
| enlightened? In fact, Alan Watts himself said so. If
| everyone is enlightened, how can it be that only the
| enlightened can skip all Zen training? That's a difficult
| koan, indeed.
| rendall wrote:
| As the great Honmyokai said, _" I don't make the rules. I
| just ingest roots, bark and resin until I die,
| enlightened, preserved without decay"_
| cylinder714 wrote:
| _[the Blue Cliff Record and Jewish Catskills resort humor
| collapse into a singularity]_
| zppln wrote:
| While I do find Watts pretty based overall, some of his talks do
| give me that TED talk vibe, i.e. man on stage who says things
| that _sound_ intelligent and an audience of middle class people
| sitting there spellbound and thinking they 're educating
| themselves, whereas in reality most of them will forget
| everything they heard during the drive home.
| thisiswater wrote:
| In counterpoint, the wisdom and knowledge that Watts delivers
| has massively helped me out of chronic mental health problems
| (being the middle class white target audience).
|
| The thing I really enjoy about Watts, and what seems this
| article seem moot, is that lazy mysticism is half the point. He
| is offering a counterweight to social pressure and an 'age of
| anxiety' by suggesting new points of view in which desperate
| clawing and ladder climbing are absurd. He says very clearly
| not to take him too seriously, because he's not offering a new
| totalizing point where you should be anxious about nothing -
| just showing that there is an alternative, and you are poorer
| for not having considered it.
|
| And if that doesn't work for you, no worries, he's a lazy
| mystic not a preacher.
| [deleted]
| jessermeyer wrote:
| This piece accusing Watts of laziness is just as guilty.
|
| `It's true that Buddhism, and particularly Zen Buddhism, teaches
| that we are perfect just as we are, we have merely forgotten our
| true nature.`
|
| As someone who has studied Zen Buddhism for a few decades, you
| will be very hard pressed to find anyone practiced in it refer to
| the words 'true' and 'perfect' so casually.
|
| True is only meaningful with respect to an abstract system of
| rules, and this extends likewise to perfection. You need an
| external metric to determine what is, and by the same token, is
| not, perfect.
|
| Zen Buddhism teaches people how to experience the world
| independent of that part of your mind that is actively
| categorizing the world into true, false, imperfect, perfect, etc.
| To experience your own experience of life as directly as
| possible, without mediation through your linguistic centers or
| moral philosophies. Since we're programmers, one analogy would be
| to reduce all those needless abstractions in the call stack down
| to the essential turing-complete read/write add/sub and jump
| instructions.
|
| So Alan is forcing an important point on the Yogi. You can only
| _know_ or _define_ enlightenment with respect to an abstract
| system of thought. Remove the abstraction, and there is a
| complete liberation. No meaningful way to form distinctions.
| "Doesn't he see the Brahman everywhere, and in all people, all
| beings". All becomes one. There is no difference between the
| enlightened and the non-enlightened in the non-conceptual world.
| Which is the world that Zen teaches how to experience, if for no
| other reason than to reveal that it is possible, and provide a
| renewed perspective on the seemingly ordinary miracle of
| conscious life.
| 09bjb wrote:
| Wish I could upvote this one ten times, or a hundred. Thanks
| for taking a little time to type it up.
| [deleted]
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| Theatrics are a big part of first year science lectures. At least
| when I went. A lot of the chemistry lectures had demonstrations
| on the level of a Harry Potter play... special effects; kaboom
| and smoke in many classes. It made you feel special to be there.
| Alan Watts makes his audience feel special. Kind of like Sam
| Harris lulls his audience into feeling smart.
| superb-owl wrote:
| The article isn't as aggressive as the headline, but it also
| doesn't really give a clear picture of Watts. He had a lot of
| issues in his personal life, but as the article parenthetically
| mentions, he helped a lot of people too. If you want to know more
| about Watts and what he means to people, I would suggest finding
| some of his lectures on YouTube (avoid the ones with new agey
| music).
|
| Watts was a connoisseur of fascinating ideas. It's easy to
| criticize his syncretism as "watered down Buddhism", and you
| can't take everything he (or anyone) says as gospel, but there's
| plenty of insight in his lectures. And he will point you towards
| a hundred other thinkers with amazing ideas to share.
| CTDOCodebases wrote:
| I would say that Alan Watts translated Buddhism and made it
| digestible for a western audience.
|
| Although it has new agey music I would suggest listening to the
| link below to get an understanding of what I am talking about.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2rVXBww7Xk
| augustuspolius wrote:
| I used to own a CD collection of his lectures and have very
| fond memories of listening to him on road trips. Agree that he
| shares many wonderful ideas in his talks, no need to diminish
| that by calling ideas "watered down" or "lazy". He synthesized
| many religions and philosophies into a cohesive system (even if
| sometimes pretty esoteric).
|
| For those subscribed to the Waking Up app: they recently (well,
| around a year ago) added a large Alan Watts lecture collection
| to the Theory section.
| bitexploder wrote:
| Precise philosophy is not a very good tool to help most people
| explore the human condition. Stoics had a much more
| approachable life philosophy, IMO.
| bwhaley wrote:
| Try the Waking Up app for a complete, organized collection of
| Watts's work. I don't take all of it at face value - some of it
| certainly hasn't aged well - but I've derived a lot of wisdom
| from his work. If you're interested in looking at the world a
| little differently then the typical western way, it's worth
| your time to give his talks a listen.
| paraph1n wrote:
| What parts of his work haven't aged well?
| oldstrangers wrote:
| That is a very unpleasant font to read in.
| [deleted]
| pvg wrote:
| _Please don 't complain about tangential annoyances--things
| like article or website formats, name collisions, or back-
| button breakage. They're too common to be interesting._
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| [deleted]
| ciroduran wrote:
| If you like Alan Watts, you should play the David OReilly's
| videogame Everything. Gameplay might seem a bit funny at first
| (with the rotating animals and such), but the gameplay along with
| Alan Watts' speeches makes a lot of sense. It's a wonderful
| experience!
| [deleted]
| cylinder714 wrote:
| The hard-rock band Nothing More features a bit of Watts in the
| song "Ships In The Night," the second half of this music video:
| https://youtu.be/lR4yR_rjhEg
|
| I recommend not watching the actual video; I really detest the
| dark imagery and lyrics of rock music and worry about how such
| imagery affects people, even in a subtle manner. (In Buddhism
| (perhaps primarily in Theravada) there is the notion of "guarding
| the sense doors," being careful about what one allows into their
| head. I enjoy the music in spite of that, but the imagery I think
| is problematic.)
| kordlessagain wrote:
| Guarding the sense doors can be done by sitting in a cave on
| the side of a mountain. Buddha saw this as useful, for a time,
| until he realized that coming back and sharing what he gleaned
| while sitting as also useful. He about died in a river heading
| back into town, after deciding to end his ascetic lifestyle
| (and get a bite to eat).
|
| His discovery was more or less about how practicing a good
| balance between asceticism and sensual indulgence leads to a
| means of escape through realizing the Four Noble truths:
|
| 1. Dukkha: An innate characteristic of existence in the realm
| of samsara; it is the constant cycle of birth, death, and
| rebirth.
|
| 2. Samudaya: The cause and origin of dukkha through tanha.
| Tanha can be seen as the factor tying us to dukkha, or as a
| response to dukkha, trying to escape it. It is the result of
| our unguarded sensory contact with the world, which gives rise
| to craving and attachment to impermanent states and things.
|
| 3. Nirodha: Translated as "cessation," "ending," or
| "confinement." In the context of the Four Noble Truths, it
| refers to the idea that dukkha can be ended or contained by
| renouncing or letting go of tanha.
|
| 4. Magga: The path leading to the confinement of tanha and
| dukkha.
|
| The path consists right understanding (Samma ditthi), right
| thought (Samma sankappa), right speech (Samma vaca), right
| action (Samma kammanta), right livelihood (Samma ajiva), right
| effort (Samma vayama), right mindfulness (Samma sati), and
| right concentration (Samma samadhi).
|
| Now we ask GPT-3 about something very specific using the above
| as a prompt:
|
| Human> Theorize on the loss of the ability to recall imagery
| and audio, in mind, in the population as related to the path in
| Buddhism.
|
| GPT-3> There is no real answer to this question as it is purely
| speculative. However, one could theorize that the loss of the
| ability to recall imagery and audio could be related to the
| path in Buddhism in a few different ways. First, it could be
| argued that the loss of these abilities is a result of the
| practice of mindfulness and concentration. When one is focused
| on the present moment and not letting their mind wander, they
| may be less likely to remember things from the past.
| Additionally, it could be argued that the loss of these
| abilities is a result of the practice of renunciation. When one
| is trying to let go of attachment to things in the world, they
| may be less likely to hold on to memories of past experiences.
| Finally, it could be argued that the loss of these abilities is
| a result of the practice of right effort. If one is constantly
| trying to improve their mental state and focus on the present
| moment, they may eventually lose track of memories from the
| past.
|
| Human> So, forgetting may be a useful trait?
|
| GPT-3> There is no easy answer to this question. On one hand,
| forgetting may be seen as a useful trait because it can help
| one to focus on the present moment and let go of attachment to
| things in the past. On the other hand, forgetting may be seen
| as a hindrance because it can prevent one from learning from
| their past experiences. Ultimately, it is up to the individual
| to decide whether forgetting is a useful trait or not.
| labrador wrote:
| I used to criticize Watts for what I thought was not practicing
| what he preached: he died of alcoholism. That was until I
| suffered late-stage alcoholism myself. Fortunately, in the modern
| era I had available all kinds of help not available to Watts at
| the time. Very people in those days escaped the ravages of late-
| stage alcoholism, enlightened or not.
|
| Edit: See also Jack Kerouac
| [deleted]
| shrimpx wrote:
| Buddhism and Christianity make it sound like you have to be
| perfectly clean and disciplined to be "enlightened", causing
| feeling of guilt and failure when you stray from the
| behavioral/moral prescription.
|
| Indians like Siddarameshwar and Nisargadatta were addicted to
| tobacco. Nisargadatta (who claims he was in the "highest state"
| and I have no reason to doubt it) died of throat cancer due to
| hardcore smoking of cloves. When pressed about his addiction he
| would say "When I showed up in this body I found it with
| certain habits and didn't see any reason to interfere."
| AS37 wrote:
| > Buddhism and Christianity make it sound like you have to be
| perfectly clean and disciplined to be "enlightened", causing
| feeling of guilt and failure when you stray from the
| behavioral/moral prescription.
|
| I don't really get why this is. I'm not saying it's wrong.
| But it's only a couple pages into the Bible that you find
| Noah getting drunk and blacking out naked (Genesis 9). And
| this is someone who is trusted to hear the voice of God, know
| the future, and save humanity. Seems to be a pretty low bar
| for being 'good enough' for God.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| > feeling of guilt and failure when you stray from the
| behavioral/moral prescription.
|
| Those feelings are caused by attachment and craving. Learn to
| let go of your attachments; that's a big part of the
| "discipline" that's conducive to spiritual practice.
| ewzimm wrote:
| This is specifically mentioned in Buddhism as one of the
| ten hindrances, "silabbata-paramaso," attachment to rules
| and rituals. In Christianity, this is similar to the idea
| of works-righteousness which was the basis of Martin
| Luther's Protestant Reformation. In either case, spiritual
| practice would be meaningless without passing through the
| messiness of life and learning from mistakes rather than
| dwelling on them.
| labrador wrote:
| I agree with this. We are always going to have to deal with
| our cravings. I find The Seven Deadly Sins to be a useful
| model of what to try to avoid.
| labrador wrote:
| Prayer, meditation and therapies like CBT certainly help
| prevent relapse, but hard core alcoholism requires medical
| intervention to manage the shakes and delirium tremens (the
| best and most vivid hallucinations I have had. Better than
| plant hallucinogens.) The very definition of the disorder is
| a total loss of control. It's a very scary feeling to know
| you're going over the falls and there's no way to the safety
| of shore. The medical community long ago classified addiction
| as a disease (substance abuse disorder)
|
| I used to read Nisargadatta to try and get sober, but it
| didn't help. He seems to imply there's some deeper level of
| consciousness beyond just resting without thought or emotion
| in the present moment.
|
| I found the teachings of Zen to much more helpful and in fact
| many Western therapies like DBT and Wise Mind are based on
| those principles.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| > I used to read Nisargadatta to try and get sober, but it
| didn't help.
|
| Reading is just another kind of attachment. You have to
| practice, even and perhaps especially when it seems
| challenging and difficult. Most spiritual traditions are
| very clear on this, including yoga itself.
| jadbox wrote:
| > "The Swami retorted that if Watts was really enlightened, he
| would feel no suffering, not even a pinch."
|
| This article really is a hatchet job. It's the worst take with
| the worst references to source from. Enlightened has nothing to
| do with not feeling pain. The article goes on to judge his
| personal life as well as his children. The article quotes Alan as
| having not been a good father, but who can say they have lived
| the ideal?
|
| This is the same kind opinion piece that would call Mr Rogers an
| evil man [0].
|
| [0] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-fred-rogers-evil/
| [deleted]
| slowhadoken wrote:
| I got 10 words in and hit "prophet-of-rage Jordan Peterson" and
| tuned out.
| [deleted]
| delecti wrote:
| Amusingly that comment is what got me to read the article
| rather than just browsing the comments like I usually do.
| osigurdson wrote:
| What I find incredible about Watt's history is how so many of his
| talks were recorded with fairly high fidelity. There was almost
| nothing that could have been done with these in the 60s, yet they
| were preserved for 40 years until an appropriate distribution
| mechanism materialized.
|
| I do like his content but there is almost kind of a defeatist
| element to it. I often wonder if this somewhat dark shading was,
| in part, due to the alcoholism.
| thisiswater wrote:
| I disagree about the defeatism. Acceptance and "giving up" in
| the productive sense of not bashing your head against a wall
| and maybe doing something else are encouraged, but I think
| defeatism is part of a world vs me attitude which is exactly
| what he is trying to offer a counterpoint to.
|
| He also speaks about mastery as a key element to his
| philosophy, and to enjoying the world, and of discipline as
| being the key to mastery - I think, the opposite of defeatism.
| webwanderings wrote:
| Watts and Osho were on the same wavelength when it comes to
| imparting their own definition of religion and philosophy. Both
| had their human flaws and didn't care. Their message was and is
| still sound (no wonder they are popular on YouTube).
| medion wrote:
| Why is it still sound if they themselves could not live and
| follow their own philosophy? I am wary of anyone who professes
| something that sounds technically sound, but which they
| themselves cannot live up to.
| jonathankoren wrote:
| Well to bring in a Christian notion here that is useful:
| We're all sinners and therefore destined to fall short, but
| that isn't an excuse to not try, and to keep trying.
|
| Or to put it another way: Hypocrites aren't wrong. They're
| just hypocrites.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| That's an extremely common theme in the world. Teachers,
| therapists, doctors, etc. Often the instructor is completely
| fucked up, and is trying to cope with that by
| teaching/helping others. But they still have insightful and
| good advice, even if they don't follow it themselves. Don't
| focus on the instructor as some kind of idol that, if their
| perfection wanes, so does your attention to their teaching.
| Instead focus on the message and whether it will work for
| _you_. Many people find that it does, and it 's that direct
| result that matters.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| Shortsighted people look at a teacher and say "You're only
| _teaching_! I should be learning from someone _doing_. " Or
| a million other excuses.
|
| But when it comes down to it, everyone on this planet could
| teach at least one useful thing to anyone else.
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