[HN Gopher] Associations between alcohol consumption and gray an...
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       Associations between alcohol consumption and gray and white matter
       volumes
        
       Author : Bhilai
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2022-11-01 17:58 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
        
       | vkou wrote:
       | > Here, we show that the negative associations between alcohol
       | intake and brain macrostructure and microstructure are already
       | apparent in individuals consuming an average of only one to two
       | DAUs (daily alcohol units), and become stronger as alcohol intake
       | increases.
       | 
       | It should be noted that a single 'weak' 5% beer is 1.65 DAUs.
        
         | metadat wrote:
         | Does this mean no more megapints?
         | 
         | Seriously though, why doesn't the unit of 1 DAU correspond with
         | any existing commercial form factors?
         | 
         | A single 12oz 5% beer would be a more helpful starting point.
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | Hmm.. maybe better to avoid alcohol completely, or stick to other
       | less harmful recreational drugs and pastimes?
        
         | ramesh31 wrote:
         | This is pretty much why I became a nondrinker. Alcohol makes
         | you dumb. It impairs thinking, and thinking is the most
         | pleasurable thing in the world.
        
           | pstuart wrote:
           | > Alcohol makes you dumb
           | 
           | So does canabis (albeit in a rather creative way). I love the
           | stuff but it's definitely better in smaller and infrequent
           | doses.
        
           | throwayyy479087 wrote:
           | Ehhh - having a whiskey on a porch in the mountains in the
           | fall is up there
        
             | christophilus wrote:
             | Throw in a cigar or pipe, and it's my favorite guilty
             | pleasure.
        
           | yrgulation wrote:
           | Yup i'm done as one might infer from my comment history.
        
         | rosywoozlechan wrote:
         | it's a cross-sectional study and thus cannot be used to infer
         | causality, so it doesn't warrant behavioral changes?
        
         | commandlinefan wrote:
         | Figure 3 seems to suggest that as long as you average < 1
         | drink/day, you're doing (very very slightly) better than
         | somebody who averages 0.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | The standard response to that is 0 drinks per day includes
           | abstainers who might be former alcoholics and therefore might
           | be dragging the average down. Some of the data tables have a
           | separate category for "excluding abstainers", but there's no
           | line graph that has abstainers excluded.
        
             | theGnuMe wrote:
             | I would imagine they controlled for that or it's
             | insignificant.
        
               | aplusbi wrote:
               | Doesn't sound like they controlled for it or even
               | considered it. While they did have a control group that
               | excluded non-drinkers and heavy drinkers, that was solely
               | to control for bias at the extreme ends, and not to
               | control for sober alcoholics or health problems that
               | preclude drinking.
               | 
               | > Our analyses comprise models that include two different
               | sets of control variables. The standard set includes
               | standardized age, standardized age squared standardized
               | height, handedness (right/left/ambidextrous; dummy-
               | coded), sex (female:0, male:1), current smoker status,
               | former light smoker, former heavy smoker, and
               | standardized Townsend index of social deprivation
               | measured at the zip code level62. To control for genetic
               | population structure, the models also include the first
               | 40 genetic principal components63 and county of residence
               | (dummy-coded)62. A second set of extended control
               | variables includes all standard control variables and in
               | addition standardized BMI, standardized educational
               | attainment64, and standardized weight. To determine
               | whether observations at the extreme ends of the drinking
               | distribution bias the estimates of the relationship
               | between alcohol intake and IDPs, we also estimate a model
               | that excludes abstainers and a model that excludes heavy
               | drinkers (i.e., women who reported consuming more than 18
               | units/week and men who consumed more than 24 units/week),
               | both with standard controls.
               | 
               | Here they talk about the different groupings:
               | 
               | > we bin participants in the following six categories
               | based on average alcohol intake: (1) abstainers, (2)
               | individuals who drank less than one unit/day, (3)
               | individuals who drank between one (included) and two
               | (excluded) units/day (recommended maximal alcohol
               | consumption based on the UK Chief Medical Officers "low-
               | risk" guidelines32), (4) individuals who drank between
               | two (included) and three (excluded) units/day, (5)
               | individuals who drank between three (included) and four
               | (excluded) units/day, and (6) individuals who drank at
               | least four units/day.
               | 
               | Again no mention of sober alcoholics or health problems.
               | 
               | This study: https://www.massgeneral.org/news/press-
               | release/large-study-c... found that while moderate
               | drinkers had better cardiovascular health than non-
               | drinkers, this was due to other lifestyle factors
               | associated with moderate drinking, not the drinking
               | itself.
        
       | Mathnerd314 wrote:
       | The overall conclusion of the study is "We observe negative
       | relationships between alcohol intake and global gray and white
       | matter measures". But if you look at Figure 3, it is consistent
       | with a J-shaped risk curve with risk equal to nondrinkers around
       | 16 grams ethanol per day, like the 16.9 number found for 40-64
       | year old males in
       | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6....
       | So I would say this study adds another reason to not overdrink,
       | and confirms that current drinking expectations are too high, but
       | isn't a reason to abstain entirely.
        
         | boberoni wrote:
         | For reference, a single shot (1.5 fl oz of 40% alcohol) has 14g
         | of alcohol.
        
           | Mathnerd314 wrote:
           | Yeah. And it's a daily average, so you can have 3 drinks
           | every Saturday for example (aiming for the TMREL of 6g). I'm
           | not sure about the maximum per day; there was a heart disease
           | study that defined heavy drinking as 60g in a day,but I
           | haven't seen any studies specifically on drinking patterns at
           | this low intake.
        
           | insanitybit wrote:
           | Ergo, 7 shots once a week and I'm good to go!
        
           | bufferoverflow wrote:
           | A pint of beer is 20g.
           | 
           | I used to drink socially when I was young, and I usually had
           | more than that.
        
         | adamredwoods wrote:
         | >> Alcohol intake explains 1% of the variance in global GMV and
         | 0.3% of the variance in global WMV across individuals beyond
         | all other control variables (both p < 10-16).
         | 
         | Definitely shows there is some grey and white matter
         | reduction... but the impact doesn't seem drastic? Do I use that
         | 1%? Do other activities reduce my brain of 1%? I don't know the
         | scale of volume they use. I could be wrong.
         | 
         | And looking at figure 2[1], age is also a major factor for
         | change in white/grey volume (which they normalize).
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-28735-5/figures/2
        
           | idiotsecant wrote:
           | You have to admit the same argument in other contexts is a
           | little funny. Like if you were exposed to an industrial
           | pollutant that was shown to reduce your brain mass by 1% I
           | don't think many people would be saying 'do I really need
           | that brain material?' Obviously this is more than a little
           | influenced by enjoying the effects of a drug.
        
             | bergenty wrote:
             | I mean a pollutant has no upside. Being intoxicated has a
             | lot of upsides including a good time, stress relief,
             | community etc.
        
           | JohnJamesRambo wrote:
           | The old mantra of people only use X% of their brain has been
           | found to be hogwash. We use all of our brain, so I'd be very
           | worried about a poison that even takes 1%.
           | 
           | > The notion that a person uses only 10 percent of their
           | brain is a myth. fMRI scans show that even simple activities
           | require almost all of the brain to be active.
           | 
           | https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321060#takeaway
        
       | trh0awayman wrote:
       | Logical positivist vs Knight of faith, Berserker approach to life
        
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