[HN Gopher] iPhone 14 Pro camera review: A small step, a huge leap
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       iPhone 14 Pro camera review: A small step, a huge leap
        
       Author : robflaherty
       Score  : 230 points
       Date   : 2022-11-01 18:19 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lux.camera)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lux.camera)
        
       | nicolashahn wrote:
       | These pictures are fantastic. For anyone but professionals the
       | reasons to buy a DSLR or mirrorless are virtually gone.
        
         | nop_slide wrote:
         | I disagree and as a n00b/amateur I recently picked up my first
         | "real" camera, a Fujifilm x-t20. I've managed to take some
         | amazing photos that simply wouldn't have turned out as good on
         | my iPhone 12.
         | 
         | I was sick of the smudgy look that happened often on the iPhone
         | when the lighting wasn't perfect, and also there is a unique
         | "look" that the Fuji mirrorless cameras spit out due to their
         | x-trans sensor[1]. In my short 2 weeks with the camera I've had
         | a ton of fun and gotten some great shots.
         | 
         | While no doubt the 14 pro is amazing, your statement isn't
         | true.
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujifilm_X-Trans_sensor
        
           | emkoemko wrote:
           | that smudgy, painting look on phones is the phone trying to
           | remove noise in the image
        
             | nop_slide wrote:
             | Yes I'm aware, and my point is that it doesn't happen with
             | a better sensor/camera and the lack of "smart" processing.
             | Even my small compact point and shoot would take sharper
             | photos in the same lighting than my iPhone 12. As mentioned
             | in the article the processing the iPhone does has seem to
             | become more aggressive as well.
        
       | k2enemy wrote:
       | The author clearly knows a lot about photography, so I don't
       | think this is a mistake in the article... When did "depth of
       | field" begin meaning the opposite of what it traditionally meant
       | in photography?
       | 
       | For example: _A nice side benefit of a larger sensor is a bit
       | more depth of field. At a 13mm full-frame equivalent, you really
       | can't expect too much subject separation, but this shot shows
       | some nice blurry figures in the background._
       | 
       | For as long as I can remember, depth of field referred to the
       | range of distance that is in focus. So more depth of field would
       | mean more things in focus and less subject separation. And
       | "distance to subject" and "field of view" equal, a larger sensor
       | results in less depth of field.
       | 
       | But in the article it is clearly the opposite. This isn't the
       | only place I've noticed the change in meaning either.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | Because "depth of field is when blurry"
        
         | Tepix wrote:
         | You're right, he should have written shallow depth of field.
        
         | thfuran wrote:
         | I'd guess that Photoshop et al. are the cause, with virtual
         | depth of field effects.
        
         | numlocked wrote:
         | Perhaps it's technically inaccurate but seems easy to read it
         | as:
         | 
         | " A nice side benefit of a larger sensor is a bit more depth of
         | field _effect_ ".
         | 
         | Eg referring to the visual effect of shallow DoF, not the DoF
         | itself. Because the following sentence is unambiguous about his
         | intent, I'm inclined to not be overly pedantic here and let us
         | slide.
        
         | namdnay wrote:
         | I think it stems from the "depth of field effect" tool in post-
         | processing, which then caused people to call the visual effect
         | "depth of field" (instead of "shallowness of field" i guess)
        
         | cdevroe wrote:
         | I think you're right. The point they were trying to make is
         | that there is more separation between the subject and the
         | background. So, in a way, an _improved_ DOF if not a _greater_
         | or _shallower_ DOF.
         | 
         | Maybe?
        
       | solardev wrote:
       | Coming from a Pixel 5 to the iPhone 14 Pro, I gotta say I'm
       | pretty disappointed. The pictures are mediocre at best, and just
       | plain bad in dim light especially.
       | 
       | Google's computational photography is years ahead. The latest
       | Pixel has better sensors too.
        
         | user_7832 wrote:
         | As a Pixel 5 user I don't really have any complaints about the
         | cameras. If you pixel peep it definitely shows up, and I
         | suppose the 48MP would be better, but gcam (Google camera) is
         | probably one of the best pieces of software on android.
         | 
         | Having said that, I would love to see a large sensor camera
         | with gcam esque chops. It's not too hard to run into the
         | limitations of the small sensor.
        
         | saiya-jin wrote:
         | One problem that Apple actually considers a hard won feature is
         | color inaccuracy. They like to do default images look very
         | instagram-ish, which may be what many folks like to see but
         | they are pretty far from reality, more than most. Skin
         | smoothing is another topic on its own.
         | 
         | Maybe I am very biased by almost a decade of full frame
         | shooting basically everything, but I like photo representing
         | what I actually see with my own eyes at that moment.
         | 
         | When talking about Pixels, when I saw some non-ideal light
         | samples from latest one, it was pretty clear neither Apple nor
         | ie Samsung (which I own and love, S22 ultra) are in same league
         | in many aspects of photography. But Pixel 6 had some pretty
         | annoying issues from user reports. On the other side it costed
         | (and v7 still does) significantly less from day 1.
        
         | fumar wrote:
         | Do you have examples to share? I am interested as I shoot with
         | film, mirrorless, and on iPhones.
        
         | nurblieh wrote:
         | Coming from the Pixel 6 Pro, I feel the same. The camera is
         | comparatively very slow with even daytime indoor lighting. Half
         | the photos I take of a child at play end up in the trash due to
         | blur. Hoping to find out that I'm just "holding it wrong".
        
       | anotheryou wrote:
       | Lol, nothing is better about the dark skyline image. It's a
       | blurry noise canceled mess with bad white balance.
        
         | keepquestioning wrote:
         | Reality Distortion Field.
        
       | Kukumber wrote:
       | To me that's a downgrade, it should be smaller, not bigger
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | foldr wrote:
       | The size of the sensor isn't as important as people think it is.
       | What really matters is the diameter of the aperture (the absolute
       | diameter, not the f number). Consider a cone of light for a given
       | angle of view hitting a small sensor close to the aperture and a
       | large sensor further from the aperture:                        o
       | < aperture of a given diameter             /\            /  \
       | ----    < small sensor (less area, more light per unit area)
       | /    \          /      \          --------  < large sensor (more
       | area, less light per unit area)
       | 
       | If you compare typical shooting apertures for DLSRs and camera
       | phones, they're not radically different. Say you are shooting a
       | 50mm lens at f8 on a DSLR. That's an aperture of 6.25mm. A
       | typical smartphone camera will have an aperture of around 3-4mm.
       | In this scenario, then, the DLSR is getting about 3 times more
       | light (or ~1.5 stops).
       | 
       | Of course you _can_ use much wider apertures on DSLRs, but their
       | use is more limited given the shallow depth of field that
       | results. If you 're shooting e.g. landscapes, then you're
       | probably not going to use apertures much wider than f8 anyway.
        
         | azalemeth wrote:
         | This is related to the conservation of Etendue [1] in an
         | optical system, which is basically a statement of conservation
         | of power: you rightly point out that radiant flux is determined
         | by the source and constant - and for that reason, the primary
         | numerical aperture or f-number of the lens is ultimately what
         | really matters - assuming, as you point out, that you want to
         | use the narrower DoF that arises (in which case SNR scales as
         | the square root of sensor area).
         | 
         | However, sensors get noise from different sources: and while
         | you're right to point out that you might be up against photon
         | shot noise, read noise goes down with pixel area: so, as long
         | as pixel area scales with sensor area, and that scaling is
         | performed by uniformly scaling the pixel, the larger sensor is
         | intrinsically "a little bit better". Quoting shamelessly again
         | from wikipedia [2]
         | 
         | > The read noise is the total of all the electronic noises in
         | the conversion chain for the pixels in the sensor array. To
         | compare it with photon noise, it must be referred back to its
         | equivalent in photoelectrons, which requires the division of
         | the noise measured in volts by the conversion gain of the
         | pixel. This is given, for an active pixel sensor, by the
         | voltage at the input (gate) of the read transistor divided by
         | the charge which generates that voltage, CG = V_{rt}/Q_{rt}.
         | This is the inverse of the capacitance of the read transistor
         | gate (and the attached floating diffusion) since capacitance C
         | = Q/V. Thus CG = 1/C_{rt}.
         | 
         | As capacitance is proportional to area, pixel area matters here
         | - read noise is proportional to it linearly. In low-light
         | conditions, read noise dominated most cellphone sensors (mostly
         | for the above).
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etendue [2]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format#Read_noise
        
       | Wolfegard wrote:
        
       | sys32768 wrote:
       | I am still not understanding why my iPhone 13 landscape photos
       | look as good as those from my $900 Nikkor Z 24mm f/1.8 S prime
       | lens with its superior optics on a $2k DSLR body.
       | 
       | If the reason is fancy post-processing, then why can't Nikon have
       | a tiny lens like the iPhone 13 and just add fancy post-processing
       | to it?
        
         | stavros wrote:
         | Try photographing at night with short exposures.
        
         | fassssst wrote:
         | Just shoot your mirrorless in RAW and process them later.
         | Lightroom gives great results, but you can also use Apple
         | Photos to get similar color processing as your iPhone photos.
         | 
         | The mirrorless photos will look much better on a laptop or
         | bigger screen but about the same on a phone.
        
           | sys32768 wrote:
           | Thanks for the tip on Apple Photos. Had not tried that.
        
         | 323 wrote:
         | For the same reason you can't upload to Instagram from your $2k
         | camera - they know how to make hardware.
         | 
         | But the idea of enhancing filters or social media features is
         | completely alien to them.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I've noticed it's getting easier and easier to take photos with
         | the _SUN_ in the frame than when digital sensors first came
         | out.
        
         | sudosysgen wrote:
         | What settings are you shooting? How do you edit your images?
        
           | sys32768 wrote:
           | On my Z5 I can use the built-in Landscape mode, and on the Z6
           | I can use auto or manual.
           | 
           | Autocorrect RAW in Adobe Photoshop looks good. And certainly
           | on a 4k monitor the DSLR images reveal more detail.
           | 
           | My post here has me realizing I need to take iPhone and DSLR
           | shots side-by-side in the same place with the same lighting
           | and begin to compare them in-camera and in post-processing.
        
             | sudosysgen wrote:
             | What aperture are you shooting at? You probably already
             | know it, but for landscapes you'd be looking at f/5.6 or so
             | unless you're hurting for light.
             | 
             | Popular notion is that at f/11 only will diffraction start
             | to affect you, but with modern high resolution cameras
             | diffraction starts to creep in as early as f/9, so f/5.6 is
             | generally best unless you really need the deeper field.
             | You're probably going to be fine at 24MP, though.
        
             | emkoemko wrote:
             | "What aperture are you shooting at? You probably already
             | know it, but for landscapes you'd be looking at f/5.6 or so
             | unless you're hurting for light."
             | 
             | this is bad advice.... shoot on a tripod and set your f
             | stop to get the DOF you need or do a focus stack, f/5.6
             | would work if your shooting a distant landscape but having
             | anything in the foreground f5.6 would not be enough, i
             | usually stay at around F10 any higher i don't like because
             | diffraction starts to reduce image quality and if i need
             | more DOF i just focus stack
             | 
             | for ISO set it to 100 or what ever your cameras base ISO is
             | 
             | then adjust your shutter speed until you get correct
             | exposure
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | GoToRO wrote:
         | Good looking != captures reality.
         | 
         | iPhones apply filters to make the photos look more vivid and to
         | make them "ready to share". If a professional camera would do
         | that, it would not be professional.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | It doesn't do that unless you turn on vivid photographic
           | styles. It's tuned pretty much like a dedicated camera.
           | 
           | This does annoy many people who then switch to Snow/BeautyCam
           | to actually take their pictures since they want to look
           | prettier.
        
             | GoToRO wrote:
             | By default, the pictures they take have nothing to do with
             | reality. You can check it yourself by comparing the picture
             | on the screen with the scene you pictured. Try it with some
             | clouds f.e. This was my experience.
        
               | pyfork wrote:
               | I dn, all the pictures of my friends and family and dog
               | look pretty close to reality. I'm not sure I care if a
               | cloud is slightly different, to be honest.
        
         | shishy wrote:
         | I doubt those iphone photos look the exact same as the nikon
         | ones on a large display (i.e. anything bigger than an
         | iphone...) It has not been the case for me.
        
         | saiya-jin wrote:
         | Obviously you don't look at close detail on computer, which is
         | very strange for seemingly such a power photo user. Phones
         | these days are good but not yet _that_ good if you don 't do
         | some beginner mistakes with camera. Maybe Pixel 7 pro based on
         | samples I saw, but definitely not ie iphone 13 pro max.
         | 
         | What people often mean by similar statements is they like
         | default phone processing compared to 0 in the camera, and there
         | is enough detail due to tons of light and due to landscapes
         | being generally easiest scene to shoot.
         | 
         | As for why they are not comparable, also a very strange
         | question from seemingly experienced photo shooter - compare
         | software development department and budget in Apple vs Nikon,
         | who is a tiny player we all love (have D750 since it came out
         | and carried it everywhere up to 6000m), they use very
         | specialized CPUs which are very good for 1 thing only (basic
         | operations on raw sensor data and potential jpeg
         | transformation), and various ML and stacking transformations
         | aren't simply available there at performance required. The
         | whole construction of camera and processing hardware isn't
         | around snapping 30 pics and combining them together under 1s,
         | pre-taking pictures before actually hitting shutter etc.
        
         | reedf1 wrote:
         | It really won't beat modern fast lenses. Try a lowlight
         | situation. You will not be able to beat a larger aperture for
         | light collection, it's simply how many photons you can catch.
        
         | sfmike wrote:
         | Apple and photography processing at this point is like TSMC and
         | chips. They probably have a great deal of algorithmic knowhow
         | that is in house and they're doing things that no one else is
         | quite getting close to at any of the big camera brands. Maybe
         | just Pixel phones have some clue in's on some of the post
         | processing hacks. I'd guess in the dark ex apple helped
         | consult.
        
         | jsmith99 wrote:
         | The Nikon photos will be under sharpened because it's so easy
         | to apply sharpening in post, and the amount of sharpening is
         | very dependent on the size and format of your desired output.
         | Also, in ideal conditions (medium sized, evenly and brightly
         | lit, static subject a moderate distance away) practically all
         | cameras will give good results: try comparing in less ideal
         | circumstances like a darkish area indoors.
        
         | JALTU wrote:
         | Nikon and Canon and all the other camera companies, Japanese,
         | German, or otherwise, are not software companies and have a
         | pretty awful track record for even the basic software in their
         | camera interfaces. Post processing is something they could not
         | or would not get involved in.
         | 
         | Apple ate their lunches and then some. While I'm an old-school
         | photographer who thinks a great SLR camera is the photographic
         | equivalent of driving a Porsche, I don't miss carrying pounds
         | of gear around. (OTOH I HATE the Ux of iPhones for
         | photography.) I digress. The camera biz is a classic biz school
         | study in humans being human.
        
         | qbasic_forever wrote:
         | A landscape photo is the easiest thing for any camera to
         | capture. Focus is at infinity and no depth of field means the
         | lens can be literally a greasy pinhole and still get sharp
         | shots. You're probably taking photos in direct sunlight so
         | again the camera has to do very little work and is flooded with
         | light.
         | 
         | Try taking a portrait photo in iffy lighting, like at a
         | concert, wedding, sporting event, etc. Something that really
         | needs a fast and sharp lens.
        
         | asciimov wrote:
         | Targeted audience doesn't demand the feature.
         | 
         | If a users needs are being met by an iPhone then they shouldn't
         | worry about dslrs.
         | 
         | If a users needs aren't being met by the dslr gotta wonder is
         | it the technology or the skill of the user?
        
         | pb7 wrote:
         | Do they look the same when zoomed in/at 100% zoom? Phone photos
         | look great on small screens but show weaknesses on desktop.
        
           | pcurve wrote:
           | Yep. Dslr and large sensors count when it comes to making
           | every pixel count without introducing artifacts
        
         | TedShiller wrote:
         | iPhone 13 photos will look just as good as a Nikon photo on
         | your iPhone. As soon as you view the iPhone photos on a monitor
         | or print them out, everything falls apart.
         | 
         | iPhone photos are excellent as long as viewers are only seeing
         | them on iPhones.
        
         | foldr wrote:
         | I wouldn't necessarily assume that the optics are superior.
         | Smartphone lenses are pretty sophisticated. Also, their smaller
         | size and far greater production numbers open up manufacturing
         | techniques that wouldn't be practical for DSLR lenses.
         | 
         |  _Edit_ : Apologies for commenting on downvotes, but I'd be
         | genuinely curious to see some objective evidence that the
         | optics of a typical DSLR lens have a superior design. Of course
         | it is true that larger lenses for larger sensors _tend_ to be
         | superior because they do not need to resolve as many lines per
         | mm and they do not need to be machined as precisely (all else
         | being equal). But does anyone know of any actual lab tests that
         | make relevant comparisons? I am a bit tired of people just
         | assuming that DLSR lenses are higher quality than smartphone
         | lenses, even though the cost of modern smartphones, and the
         | enormous disparity in the number of units sold, makes it far
         | from obvious that this should be the case.
        
           | pb7 wrote:
           | I didn't downvote but I imagine at least someone did because
           | the laws of physics dictate that smaller lenses/sensors can't
           | capture as much light as bigger ones of similar quality. This
           | is why cameras have started trending to be larger rather than
           | smaller. Only so much you can do software-wise before you hit
           | physical limitations.
        
             | foldr wrote:
             | >the laws of physics dictate that smaller lenses/sensors
             | can't capture as much light as bigger ones of similar
             | quality.
             | 
             | This is not really true to a very great extent once you
             | take depth of field into account. At least, it would be
             | helpful if you could indicate what it is exactly that you
             | take the laws of physics to imply in this context. I made a
             | comment here that's relevant:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33426540
             | 
             | I took 'superior optics' to be a claim of greater
             | sophistication or higher quality, but perhaps that is not
             | what was meant, and the poster was merely referring to the
             | difference in size.
        
         | adrr wrote:
         | Never got why camera manufactures never followed the phones.
         | Like Live photo,and automatic hdr. Can we get rid of the
         | shutter?
        
           | FireBeyond wrote:
           | > Can we get rid of the shutter?
           | 
           | That's a challenge, I think. Take an R5 (only because I'm
           | most familiar with it).
           | 
           | 47 megapixels, 12 bpp 211.5MB, maximum shutter speed of
           | 1/8000. In other words, you need to be able to pull data off
           | the sensor (and to be clear, there's parallelization
           | available, I just don't know what) at a global rate of
           | 1.6TB/s.
        
             | adrr wrote:
             | They have global shutter sensors around the 12 megapixel
             | level. They could split the sensor up into different
             | processing paths. Do these 200 megapixel phone camera
             | sensors have really bad rolling sensor issues? They are
             | using electronic rolling shutters like your R5 when in
             | silent mode or whatever canon calls it now.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | FireBeyond wrote:
               | What 200 mp phone camera sensors? The iPhone 14 is closer
               | to a 12MP digital camera (quad bayer 48 million sensors).
               | And from what I recall, 8 or maybe 10 bit. So in
               | comparison to the 211MB of sensor data coming off the R5,
               | there's 36 to 45MB of data coming off the phone camera.
               | And I believe the 14's max shutter speed is 1/1000, so
               | there's up to 35 times less data needing to be read off
               | the sensor (45GB/s versus 1.6TB/s)
               | 
               | And I'm sure there is multiple processing paths - I just
               | don't know the fine details about how that raw data is
               | slurped off the sensor.
        
               | adrr wrote:
               | https://semiconductor.samsung.com/image-sensor/mobile-
               | image-...
        
           | emkoemko wrote:
           | i am glad they don't but in any case what is live photo?
           | automatic HDR? well shoot a bracket +- certain EV ? get rid
           | of the shutter? would need a global shutter unless you like
           | rolling shutter look, phone sensors are tiny they can have
           | fast enough readout vs a 35mm or larger
        
         | kybernetyk wrote:
         | The Nikon does minimal post processing. The iPhone throws a
         | metric shit ton of algorithms at the image data to make it
         | passable. For normal people the iPhone output is good enough -
         | though it often looks very over-processed.
         | 
         | Nikon just expects you to handle that post processing part that
         | your iPhone is doing for you. In exchange you get way more
         | control over the final image.
         | 
         | Both devices are aimed at different people. I myself have an
         | iPhone 13 pro and a Nikon Z6ii. I tend to take snapshots with
         | my iPhone because getting out the Nikon + playing around with
         | sliders in Capture One is just too much hassle for a snapshot.
         | Now would I take the iPhone and do a landscape photo where I
         | hiked 6 hours to the photo location at 3 a.m. in the morning?
         | Probably not. ;)
        
         | MurrayHill1980 wrote:
         | Because deep down, it's not what they do. They are optics and
         | camera hardware companies. In the race between physics and
         | software, they are on the physics side. This is evident in the
         | entire user experience. They keep missing the boat with the way
         | people actually use photography today, and don't even seem to
         | care much. There's not much evidence they have the kind of
         | research expertise that Apple, Google or Adobe built in signal
         | processing and image processing, either.
         | 
         | See also https://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/news-
         | archives/nikon-201... and
         | https://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/news-archives/nikon-201...
        
         | majormajor wrote:
         | Mine don't (iPhone 13 Pro Max, Fuji XT-2 and various lenses).
         | They do in daylight, sure, but things like sunrise/sunset or
         | unusual colors throw them off like crazy.
         | 
         | Textures can also throw them off - "amplification" of the
         | texture effect, almost.
         | 
         | They also suffer a bit zoomed in.
         | 
         | The post-processing fixes a lot of problems of older phone
         | cameras but it has its limits.
         | 
         | On good camera hardware there's very little that all that post-
         | processing would add outside of extreme-high-ISO-noise, IMO.
         | Which - would it be nice? Sure. But you can find software and
         | stack exposures manually and such for those situations too.
         | 
         | And a lot of the other smart stuff gets fooled too easily.
        
           | sys32768 wrote:
           | This is true. I should have added "in good light".
           | 
           | The DSLR images also retain much more detail in cropping.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | And even moderate optical telephoto lenses are pretty
             | powerful tools as well--especially in poorer light.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I hate when you get one of those amazing sunsets where the
           | whole sky changes color, but the phone auto-correct
           | removes/corrects the color tone.
        
             | qbasic_forever wrote:
             | You can shoot in raw on iphones now to prevent this or fix
             | it later.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Thanks, but now doesn't do me any good then
        
         | andrewia wrote:
         | I think it's processing power and engineering effort. I got a
         | Sony RX100M2 for my mom and it has the same computational
         | photography techniques that Google released the following year
         | (https://ai.googleblog.com/2014/10/hdr-low-light-and-high-
         | dyn...). But Sony's image stacking is only in "Superior Auto"
         | mode, and is only used when necessary. Google's implementation
         | does a lot of advanced work, including selecting and blending
         | parts of the photo depending on motion, that Sony doesn't do. I
         | assume Sony's imaging engineers have less expertise in advanced
         | processing, and didn't have the resources to implement the
         | features that Google did. Sony also has to devote engineering
         | resources to other features - a lot of their sales are to
         | photographers that will edit in post (RAW), and later,
         | videographers. So features that are only in "auto" mode may
         | have limited budget.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Because Nikon's target audience (photographers) don't want that
         | "fancy post-processing" done by their camera.
        
         | packetlost wrote:
         | Try zooming in, even a little bit. You'll notice squiggly
         | oversharpening artifacts pretty quickly. Yes they probably look
         | _fine_ on a phone screen, but blow them up at all and they
         | start to show their weaknesses
        
           | TaylorAlexander wrote:
           | The oversharpening on the iphone is so frustrating! I like
           | the utility of the basic camera app, but the pictures look so
           | weird. I guess I should explore alternative apps.
        
         | sp332 wrote:
         | I think Nikkor assumes that you would use software to do the
         | post processing. It gives you something a lot closer to what's
         | coming from the sensor, so you can choose which $XXX image
         | editing suite you want to run it through. The iPhone knows the
         | vast majority of people won't do that with their photos, so
         | they can go all-out, but you're stuck with their specific
         | result baked in to your photo.
        
           | theturtletalks wrote:
           | Apple has always been about making the choice for it's users.
           | Jobs always thought giving users too many options was
           | problematic.
        
             | pwinnski wrote:
             | Not just Jobs! There is no end[0] to research[1] showing
             | that many options is terrible[2], and "too many options" is
             | terrible by definition.
             | 
             | 0. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/2018/07/3
             | 1/br...
             | 
             | 1. https://mediaroom.iese.edu/new-research-shows-why-the-
             | human-...
             | 
             | 2. https://bigthink.com/thinking/choice-analysis-paralysis/
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | That's a bit silly in this context. It's not like the
             | person's intentions aren't fairly clear when they decided
             | between buying an iPhone or buying a $3000 DSLR setup. Is
             | it really so evil that Apple "decided" the person who
             | bought the iPhone probably wanted the pictures to be
             | heavily post processed instead of raw data from the sensor?
        
             | NavinF wrote:
             | I don't see how that's relevant. You can tap the RAW button
             | in the iOS camera app to switch between the two choices,
             | both of which looks great. Most DSLRs only have one option
             | because the second one (in-camera JPEG) looks like crap.
             | They can barely do auto focus/wb/iso/shutter/aperture let
             | alone postprocessing.
        
             | lemonberry wrote:
             | While in training at my first restaurant job I asked a
             | party where they would like to sit in the dining room. The
             | owner pulled me aside and said to never give people a
             | choice. They'll get confused and think that there's a
             | "best" table and that their dinner could suffer if they
             | feel like they didn't get it.
             | 
             | I don't know if it's "real" or not but between work and my
             | personal life I've got decision fatigue. Help make
             | decisions. Especially about non-important ones that feel
             | important at the time.
        
               | m463 wrote:
               | Fascinating.
               | 
               | It seems like some table choices are better for the
               | customer, some are better for the server. As a customer I
               | like to be away from the other tables and the server
               | wants everyone together in a noisy clump.
        
               | throwaway287391 wrote:
               | I absolutely loathe those setups in some tiny restaurants
               | where they line up 2 person tables in a row with 6-12"
               | between tables so you can hear the stranger next to you
               | talking more clearly than your partner across the table.
               | Nothing else triggers my unbearable social anxiety like
               | it. I've gotten seated at _those_ when there 's, like, an
               | entire half of the restaurant empty.
        
               | isolli wrote:
               | Yes, I remember that campgrounds in the American Rockies
               | let you choose your spot, while in the Canadian Rockies
               | they assign you one. And I realized we were simply
               | happier in Canada!
        
               | enw wrote:
               | It's definitely real! At least as far as my N=1 dataset
               | is concerned. I dislike having to pick a seat when
               | they're all kind of the same. Just tell me where to go, I
               | have to make enough decisions at other times in life.
        
               | c5karl wrote:
               | Circuit City stores, back when they had entire walls of
               | VCRs and tape decks and receivers, all of which were "on
               | sale" (ahem), instructed their salespeople to always give
               | customers definitive advice in their price range. "Oh,
               | this Sony is the absolute best tape deck." Once people
               | had reassurance that they were making the right choice,
               | even from a total stranger, they'd open their wallets.
               | But not before.
        
           | TaylorAlexander wrote:
           | By the way I know this is not your point, but there are
           | excellent editing options for zero dollars! Which, I suppose
           | X=0 is valid for your comment.
           | 
           | https://www.rawtherapee.com/
        
         | jillesvangurp wrote:
         | Well, put bluntly, the reason is that you probably are not
         | using the Nikon properly. So, your photos are not coming out
         | that great or as you hoped. Don't take this personally, I also
         | have my limitations using cameras properly. But I understand
         | I'm an amateur when it comes to this and that I'm part of the
         | problem. I try to learn to do better. I try, and sometimes it
         | works out nicely and I get a really nice shot. Landscape
         | photography is tough to get right. You really need to
         | understand your camera and lenses to make that work.
         | 
         | The point of such a camera is not the in camera processing,
         | which most pro users would not use on principle. Instead it's
         | gaining a lot of control over setting up the shot properly with
         | a lot of control over all the parameters that matter to achieve
         | a look that matches what you want, intentionally. And then you
         | finish the job in post processing. There's reason these things
         | have so many buttons and dials: you need to use them to get the
         | most out of the camera. And the point of owning such a camera
         | is having that level of control. The flip side is that that
         | makes you responsible for the intelligence. That kind of is the
         | whole point. If that's not what you wanted, you bought the
         | wrong camera.
         | 
         | The iphone has a very limited set of controls. You actually
         | have very little control over it. Nice if that's what you want
         | and the AI is awesome. But it's also a bit limiting if you want
         | more. Of course it's very nice when that's the camera you have
         | and you want to take a shot quickly by just pointing and
         | clicking. Nothing wrong with that. I have a Pixel 6 and a Fuji
         | X-T30. I use them both but not the same way.
        
         | berkut wrote:
         | Do the jpegs (or hief?) look as good on a 27-inch monitor, or
         | just on the phone screen?
         | 
         | Capturing non-raw in my experience (iPhone 6S, now have 13
         | mini) the jpegs are _heavily_ de-noised, and really don 't look
         | that good 1:1 on a large monitor: on the iphone screen they
         | look very good, as they're downsampled.
         | 
         | The article mentions the 'watercolor' effect since the iPhone
         | 8, but I definitely had the issue with all the jpegs taken on
         | my iPhone 6S since 2015...
         | 
         | DNGs however DO look very good, so clearly the sensor is
         | capable of pretty nice images.
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | I guess the physics of the problem are really against these tiny
       | cameras, but even so the bokeh on the caterpillar macro shot is
       | surprisingly painful. Is there anything they can do about that,
       | optically or computationally?
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | A real macro lens on a DSLR is like that. You could stop the
         | lens down for more to be in focus, but then because you're
         | getting close to a pinhole camera you need a TON of light.
         | 
         | Maybe the iPhone would do better in studio conditions, I don't
         | know.
         | 
         | But it's a very tough problem.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | No? If I took that photo with my 100mm f/2.8 EF macro,
           | everything behind the caterpillar would just be vaguely
           | green. There's be no structure to it at all. I mean it would
           | be _way_ out of focus. The DoF even at f /11 would be ~1cm.
           | 
           | The problem with the photo in the article is the structure of
           | the background is quite apparent and all the details in the
           | background have been multiplied into hexagons which is very
           | distracting.
           | 
           | Directly comparable macro photograph of a moth. https://www.s
           | lrphotographyguide.com/images/butterflymacro.jp...
        
             | MBCook wrote:
             | Oh, I thought you wanted _more_ depth of field.
             | 
             | My mistake.
        
       | oldstrangers wrote:
       | Would be curious to see what they think of the Pixel 7 Pro
       | camera. Video is still worse, but picture quality overall seems
       | to be slightly (but noticeably) better than the iPhone 14 Pro.
        
         | dont__panic wrote:
         | I believe the Pixel Pro phones also recently migrated from 12MP
         | to 48MP, between the 6 Pro and the 7 Pro. I wonder if this
         | blogger is already looking into the Pixel? They mentioned that
         | it takes a couple of months to come to a conclusion on a new
         | phone camera, and the Pixel 7 has only been out for a month-
         | ish.
        
         | beezle wrote:
         | You won't see one. All their past postings appear to be
         | iPhone/pad camera reviews and they make two apps for the same.
         | As a result, I am a little queasy about their objectivity too.
        
           | anamexis wrote:
           | I don't see an issue, given that they don't intend to do an
           | objective comparison to other (non-Apple) smartphones.
        
       | simlevesque wrote:
       | Why is "huge" not in the title ?
       | 
       | edit: it's fixed now
        
         | atarian wrote:
         | character limit is my guess
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Because it's huge in clickbait. I've put it back in the title
         | above.
        
         | mastax wrote:
         | The HN game:
         | 
         | - Was it editorialized by the submitter?
         | 
         | - Was it changed by dang to de-clickbait it? (probably not in
         | this case)
         | 
         | - Did one of HN's title filters remove some words?
        
         | xeromal wrote:
         | That is strange. lol
        
         | m348e912 wrote:
         | Probably unintentional, but enough to get flagged for
         | "editorializing" the title.
        
       | city17 wrote:
       | The funny thing is that for all the amazing technological
       | improvements discussed, all the pictures in the article actually
       | show that A. having a photographer who knows how to frame things,
       | and sees the right moment to capture an image, and B. having a
       | subject worthwhile photographing, are way more important than
       | having a top tier quality camera.
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | > "I think the 12 MP shooting default is a wise choice on Apple's
       | part, but it does mean that the giant leap in image quality on
       | iPhone 14 Pro remains mostly hidden unless you choose to use a
       | third party app to shoot 48 MP JPG / HEIC images or shoot in
       | ProRAW and edit your photos later."
       | 
       | This, 100%.
       | 
       | The massive difference in image quality is when shooting in RAW.
       | That's when you actually get the 48MP. The picture are fantastic.
       | 
       | But that's not the default. The default is 12MP.
       | 
       | That's why reviewers are so torn on this camera system. If the
       | default was a 48MP picture, everyone would be praising the camera
       | system. But when the default is 12MP, it's par for the course.
        
       | m348e912 wrote:
       | The iPhone 14 has a fantastic camera. It's a noticeable
       | improvement from previous models and takes fantastic photos that
       | rival or surpass many SLR cameras on the market. If Apple had
       | taken another leap and included usb-c port it would have been
       | enough for me to upgrade. For now, I wait.
        
         | thefounder wrote:
         | The EU will force them switch to USB on the next iPhone so
         | better start saving :)
        
         | sbierwagen wrote:
         | Every iPhone release since the 11 I've been waiting for them to
         | add support for Wifi 6E. So far not yet...
        
         | Mikeb85 wrote:
         | Phones don't rival or surpass DSLRs or any proper digital
         | camera.
         | 
         | They just have lots of fancy processing that makes quick snaps
         | look better than the same amount of effort on a camera.
        
           | mc32 wrote:
           | Yeah, it's hard to compare 35mm full frame sensors with
           | miniscule camera sensors. As you said the magic is their
           | processing which compensates for that.
        
             | scrumbledober wrote:
             | it is hard, but it's getting a little easier with the
             | larger cameras
        
           | mkaic wrote:
           | Until that same fancy processing is available on a DSLR, I
           | think the comparison OP is making is valid. At the end of the
           | day, what I as a consumer care about is "is photo look 1.
           | pleasing, 2. accurate to my perception, and 3. easy to
           | create?" and in those regards, the iPhone absolutely
           | outperforms every DSLR I've ever used.
        
             | bosie wrote:
             | Couldn't you take those photos and apply it back on the
             | computer? Yet when i try to do HDR with 5 shots in
             | Lightroom, it takes 10s of seconds or even minutes. It
             | seems computer haven't caught up either?
        
               | squeaky-clean wrote:
               | Take a photo with your iPhone and very quickly tap the
               | thumbnail of the new image that appears in the bottom
               | left. You can watch it progressively process the image.
        
             | Mikeb85 wrote:
             | I didn't say a phone camera isn't better for the average
             | consumer... I use my phone camera far more often than my
             | actual camera...
             | 
             | But there's no world in which it's technically superior to
             | a real camera, especially one with in-camera processing or
             | in the hands of a professional with access to and skill
             | with professional post-processing software.
        
               | stu2b50 wrote:
               | The OP didn't say it was technically superior as a camera
               | - they said it produced better photos. Which you can
               | argue it does, with all the fancy post processing. The
               | statement was only about the final result, which for the
               | eyes for whom most peoples photos are presented to are
               | excellent.
        
               | refulgentis wrote:
               | Idk man.
               | 
               | If I zoom out from parsing word by word...
               | 
               | ...feels like I'm saying a Keurig "rivals and surpasses
               | espresso machines" because it can produce a better
               | espresso than an arbitrary espresso machine in arbitrary
               | hands.
               | 
               | Yeah, true. Not very meaningful though.
               | 
               | There's probably a McDonald's hamburger analogy here
               | that's better, but, here we are.
               | 
               | My challenge to an ambituous reader looking to comment:
               | make that one work too.
        
               | foldr wrote:
               | >real camera
               | 
               | A minor and pedantic point, but could we stop with the
               | idea that smartphone cameras are somehow not 'real'? They
               | are enormously sophisticated imaging devices that
               | comprehensively outperform, for example, the 35mm film
               | SLRs that many photographers were using in the 90s. An
               | iPhone 14 enables you to take technically superior photos
               | to the photos that professional photographers were taking
               | only a couple of decades ago.
        
               | cthalupa wrote:
               | >They are enormously sophisticated imaging devices that
               | comprehensively outperform, for example, the 35mm film
               | SLRs that many photographers were using in the 90s.
               | 
               | I'm not so sure about that. I'm impressed by what
               | smartphone cameras do these days, but the Nikon F100
               | snuck into the 90s and beats the pants off my iPhone 14
               | Pro's camera, while still being very much in the
               | hobbyist/prosumer price range.
        
               | foldr wrote:
               | Have you done any side by side comparison shots? Even
               | with a high quality scan, you're unlikely to get the same
               | resolution and dynamic range from a 35mm negative. And
               | that's leaving aside the obviously vast differences in
               | convenience and flexibility. (I'm old enough to have used
               | 35mm SLRs, and I have absolutely no nostalgia for that
               | era.)
        
             | appletrotter wrote:
             | Which is why DSLRs are for hobbyists and professionals.
             | It's more work, for a reward.
             | 
             | Or for people shooting at night. The sensors are too small
             | on phones to gather enough light to look decent.
        
               | turbo_fart wrote:
               | With google night sight you can basically take pictures
               | in the dark.
        
               | speedgoose wrote:
               | The sensors are small but the software is good. Night
               | photography is easy on a recent smartphone and you don't
               | even need a tripod.
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | I've tried it with an iPhone 13 and an older camera with
               | significantly worse low light performance than any camera
               | from the past 7 years, and even if I disable the built-in
               | image stacking, the mirrorless camera with an f/1.4 lens
               | is incomparably better. I could properly expose my
               | backyard with nothing but light pollution handheld.
               | 
               | Newer cameras can even film video with nothing but
               | moonlight.
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | I always wonder what a one-off joint Apple DSLR/mirrorless
           | could be. If they provided the smarts for a Sony or Canon or
           | Nikon, just how good could the pictures be?
           | 
           | Too bad we'll never know.
        
           | adrr wrote:
           | Raw photo off DSLR is very bland looking till you process it.
           | No one is using raw information off a sensor as a final
           | product and you need "fancy" processing to make it decent
           | looking.
        
           | slowhand09 wrote:
           | Its not a phone. Its a camera with comms and apps
           | capabilities.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | Are there any large sensor cameras that are working on
           | computational photography? Seeing what Apple and Google get
           | out of tiny sensors in a phone makes me wonder what would be
           | possible on a big camera with a better sensor.
        
             | biftek wrote:
             | There is computational photography happening on cameras but
             | I think it's mostly opt in features.
             | 
             | Olympus and Panasonic can take 80-100MP shots by shifting
             | the sensor a small amount and stitching multiple shots
             | together. This can even be done handheld on the newer
             | models. I imagine phones will get this eventually (maybe
             | some do already).
             | 
             | Then there's all the subject detection auto focus available
             | on basically every camera nowadays.
        
             | Mikeb85 wrote:
             | > Are there any large sensor cameras that are working on
             | computational photography?
             | 
             | Not sure about the current state of the art but I do know
             | Fuji has had some pretty fancy in-camera processing for
             | years now.
             | 
             | When I was more into photography however it seemed the
             | 'culture' was more into post-processing with computer
             | software for reasons.
        
             | formerly_proven wrote:
             | The computational photography for those is done on a
             | computer.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | Where it has more power, but lacks info like how the OIS
               | was moving as the pictures were taken, so isn't
               | necessarily as good.
               | 
               | And none of those products have nearly the sales of a
               | smartphone to sustain R&D. Similar to how the headphone
               | dongle of an iPhone is much cheaper and yet better
               | quality than most audiophile equipment.
        
               | cthalupa wrote:
               | I would consider myself barely passable in skills
               | compared to the average hobbyist photographer and have
               | never seen in-phone computational work that I would take
               | over what can be done manually in Lightroom, or if you
               | want to go the automatic route, with Skylum's offerings.
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | A phone can do on-camera stuff or capture RAW and let you
               | mess with it on your computer. Are there any big sensor
               | cameras that give you those same options? I'm not aware
               | of any and it baffles me that the camera companies feel
               | so little need to innovate. I kind of wish Apple would do
               | a dedicated big-sensor camera.
               | 
               | Also, are you saying you could reproduce any of the on-
               | phone stuff easily on your computer? I'm thinking about
               | the astrophotography modes, portrait modes, live photos,
               | and low light features.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | emkoemko wrote:
               | innovate what? what pro needs in camera processing? when
               | you can process on a computer that is way more powerful
               | and better UX for processing a large number of images?
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | The consumer market is a pretty big part of most DSLR
               | sales. There really aren't all that many professional
               | photographers, relatively speaking.
        
         | lastofthemojito wrote:
         | To be clear, it's the iPhone 14 Pro models that have the 48MP
         | camera (with telephoto) described in the article. The non-Pro
         | iPhone 14 camera is said to be improved somewhat over the
         | iPhone 13 (slightly faster lens, software magic, etc), but it
         | is not the high-end system in the iPhone 14 Pro.
        
       | willis936 wrote:
       | The 48 MP bayer mode is indeed impressive, but it does not
       | increase the spatial frequency response. I recently used it to
       | document some color transition errors on LG OLED displays and
       | even with the 48 MP "RAW" mode there are artifacts from the
       | limited spatial resolution. One of the images properly captures
       | the display sub-pixel layout, but that is taken closer to the
       | display. Enabling/disabling "RAW" did not change the spatial
       | resolution of the photos.
       | 
       | https://imgur.com/gallery/amP2lR4
        
         | coder543 wrote:
         | If you take a photo of a subject that is closer than 7.8
         | inches, you're no longer using the main camera on the 14 Pro.
         | It automatically switches to the ultrawide camera and crops in
         | to show the same field of view. I suspect that is happening to
         | you in some cases, but you're unaware, based on the fact that
         | you didn't mention anything about this limit.
         | 
         | The 48MP camera has the same _color_ spatial resolution as a
         | 12MP camera, but it has 48MP of monochromatic spatial
         | resolution. Humans aren 't as sensitive to color resolution as
         | they are to spatial resolution in general. This is why the "2x"
         | mode on the 14 Pro look great compared to what you might expect
         | based on your comment. The 2x crop only has "3MP" of color
         | resolution, but the 12MP of spatial resolution from the 2x crop
         | makes it perfectly usable.
         | 
         | For your specific use case, the ultrawide camera may work fine
         | as a "macro" lens, depending on the size of the pixels you're
         | trying to capture. A real macro lens on an interchangeable lens
         | camera would obviously do better.
        
           | jxramos wrote:
           | I've been playing block the sensor with that little IR lidar
           | thing or whatever it is beside the lenses same size as the
           | flash but is a dark spot. I was trying to photograph some VVT
           | solenoid channels with illumination creeping out the ports
           | and it got the camera into a cycle of switching lenses. I
           | covered the sensor and the toggling ceased so I could focus
           | the photo and get a good image.
        
             | coder543 wrote:
             | Much better to just go in and turn on Settings -> Camera ->
             | Macro Control
        
           | sudosysgen wrote:
           | Note that in the real world it's going to have much less than
           | 48MP of monochromatic spatial resolution due to aberrations.
           | 
           | Even if the lens was operating at the limit of physics, you'd
           | get a 2 micron first ring of the airy disk at 500nm, which is
           | bigger than the size of the pixels. It can help a bit to have
           | pixels smaller than the smallest detail the lens can resolve,
           | but at the same time the lens isn't operating at the physical
           | limit, so there is probably only a small increase in spatial
           | resolution.
        
           | willis936 wrote:
           | Ah that would be my problem. I took zoomed photos to avoid
           | lens distortion. The ultrawide would have been a better
           | option.
           | 
           | This wasn't meant to be a nice dataset, it was just something
           | I quickly tried to document my observation to a single other
           | human. I would have been more careful if I expected to share
           | it more widely.
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | I think if you disable automatic Macro Mode in the camera app
           | settings and make sure it's off when you take the photo
           | (flower icon that appears should be grey not yellow) it
           | avoids this. Though it seems like the other cameras can't
           | actually focus at this distance.
        
         | stetrain wrote:
         | I've been using the Halide app to take most of my daylight
         | shots in 48mp HEIC mode (which has the benefit of being 5-15kb
         | per photo).
         | 
         | The main advantage to me is that the result is much less
         | affected by Apple's always-on edge-sharpening processing. The
         | effective "resolution" of the processing artifacts is higher.
         | 
         | In previous iPhones if you take a photo of a bunch of leaves on
         | a tree it's almost like it tries to draw a little sharpened
         | outline around each one, which looks like a watercolor mess if
         | you zoom in at all and doesn't capture what your eye sees.
         | 
         | With the 48mp compressed shots I find landscapes and trees look
         | much more natural and in general you can crop and zoom into
         | photos further before the detail is lost in the processing
         | mess.
        
         | NavinF wrote:
         | Why does that happen? Is it because there's a physical
         | antialiasing filter in the lens?
        
           | coder543 wrote:
           | Quad Bayer: https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/4088675
           | 984/Quad_Ba...
           | 
           | The 48MP sensor still has 48MP of monochromatic resolution,
           | but it only has 12MP of effective color resolution. You'll
           | still see fine details, but the colors are not as high
           | resolution as the details. This is rarely a problem, given
           | the way the human eye processes color.
        
           | willis936 wrote:
           | I'm not an optics expert, but I expect that the physical
           | system's spatial bandwidth is much higher than the sensor's
           | bandwidth. That is to say, if there were more light sensing
           | elements I think the spatial bandwidth would be higher.
           | 
           | I don't think the artifacts are directly from aliasing but
           | rather an artifact of software interpolation.
           | 
           | It anyone knows better please correct me.
        
             | sudosysgen wrote:
             | This is generally not the case here, if the lens was
             | physically perfect it could not resolve two points closer
             | than two pixels as per the Rayleigh criterion.
        
       | cthalupa wrote:
       | Unfortunately, it still takes crappy concert photos. The
       | combination of low light, crazy lighting, etc., still wreak havoc
       | on the images.
       | 
       | Fortunately, most of the venues I go to for shows generally have
       | a "No detachable lens cameras" rule, which means my Fuji X100 is
       | allowed. Unfortunately, security at the venues often ignores the
       | policy and I don't want to be That Guy holding up the line
       | arguing with them about it.
       | 
       | (I'm also not one of those people that is taking pictures [and I
       | never record video] the whole show, I just want a handful of high
       | quality shots to help me remember the show)
        
         | jibbers wrote:
         | What is the thinking behind the "no detachable lens cameras"
         | rule? I can't wrap my head around that choice.
        
           | adrr wrote:
           | No professional photographers. I was told at a hotel that i
           | couldn't use my mirrorless camera on their property by their
           | security and that was the reason.
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | I would guess to prevent professionals from taking pictures
           | "for free" instead of getting contracts with the bands/venues
           | and paying fees for the privilege.
           | 
           | Or maybe they just annoy other patrons.
        
             | cthalupa wrote:
             | I have managed to get a press pass for some shows and bring
             | my a7r3, nice lenses, etc. I've never been asked to pay any
             | sort of fee for the pass.
        
               | MBCook wrote:
               | That's good to know. That was my "everyone is greedy
               | these days" part of my guess.
               | 
               | Was it hard to get the press pass? Maybe it's just to
               | stop people avoiding that process.
        
               | cthalupa wrote:
               | It varies. A couple of times I just sent an email and
               | they told me when/where to pick it up. Other times they
               | wanted to see my work - a few of these, a personal blog
               | with basically no traffic was enough to pass muster, a
               | few, they wanted to see me working at some sort of actual
               | publication (digital was fine, but it needed to be more
               | than "cthalupa's concert blog")
        
           | fortylove wrote:
           | I'd guess it's to avoid professional photography equipment
           | that can take up a lot of space (think zoom lenses)
        
           | cthalupa wrote:
           | There's a few primary reasons
           | 
           | 1) Historically, some bands have been concerned about their
           | image and felt that professional-looking photos that painted
           | them in a bad light, whatever that meant in reality, would be
           | more damaging than amateur photos. I don't hear this as much
           | today, but 15 years ago it was frequently given.
           | 
           | 2) Concerts with a lot of standing room near the stage
           | already get quite crowded. Someone showing up with a bulky
           | dslr (or even prosumer grade mirrorless) body and a 200mm
           | lens is going to take up quite a bit of room. Prior to the
           | advent of half the damn crowd keeping their phones in the air
           | recording the show for the entirety of it I would also say it
           | obscures vision and annoys people, but now it's really not
           | any worse than that
           | 
           | 3) They don't want someone to try and hold them liable if
           | something goes wrong and some expensive camera body or glass
           | gets broken.
           | 
           | On the times I've been able to bring my full camera gear in
           | without a press pass, I stick to as small of a lens as I can
           | and avoid being near the front of the crowd. Thankfully, even
           | quite a ways back from the front of the crowd, a 50mm prime
           | lens will still take some fantastic photos on a real camera
           | vs. what you get with a smartphone. I understand why the
           | rules are in place, though, and I don't really have a problem
           | with them in general.
        
         | jakobdabo wrote:
         | A good reason to own a Ricoh GR IIIx (or Ricoh GR III, which
         | has a 28mm equiv. lense instead of 40mm on the "x" version). It
         | looks very simple and non-professional, but the picture quality
         | is comparable with the latest Fuji X100 series cameras.
        
           | cthalupa wrote:
           | Thanks! I'll have to check it out. I've got an RX100 VII that
           | I picked up for this purpose a few years ago, but haven't
           | been particularly impressed with the concert results.
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | Since my wife bought a Canon 90D for shots that matter I have
       | since "meh"d about camera phones.
       | 
       | I wish I could just have a simple dumb phone with a calendar,
       | GPS, and texting, and it doesn't cost 1400 bucks.
        
         | naet wrote:
         | You can have that. Just don't buy a new model "pro" iPhone...
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | Any cheap Android phone offers all that for 200 or even less.
        
       | 2c2c2c wrote:
       | i did a point and shoot picture of a cat while a group of friends
       | and I were sitting on the floor of a halloween party bathroom
       | 
       | later, when sharing the photos, i realized we could distinctly
       | see my partner and I in the reflection of the cat's eye. the CSI
       | enhance memes are real :-)
        
         | chasd00 wrote:
         | > sitting on the floor of a halloween party bathroom
         | 
         | i feel there is more to this story
        
       | pigtailgirl wrote:
       | -- anyone else find it annoying how protruded the lens is? --
        
         | EA wrote:
         | Yes, it is a minor annoyance and actually seems to be counter
         | to Apple's historical product design
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | You're not wrong at all. My 12 Pro was much better, but still a
         | bit annoying.
         | 
         | But optics can't beat physics. Better cameras need more space
         | for lenses and sensors. They could make the whole phone
         | thicker, but haven't done that yet.
         | 
         | The trajectory seems unsustainable. We'll see what happens I
         | guess.
        
         | stetrain wrote:
         | As long as it's smaller than a smartphone plus an RX100 taped
         | together I consider it a net win.
        
         | chasd00 wrote:
         | yeah not a fan, my iphone12 mini is bad enough. I get that
         | taking a photo and posting it to instagram is 95% of the use
         | case for the iphone but i still don't like the way the camera
         | lenses protrude.
        
           | SebastianKra wrote:
           | Since the iPhone 11, the primary stated purpose of the Pro
           | variants has been photography.
           | 
           | For users less interested in photography, the regular iPhones
           | have a more subtle camera array.
        
             | bydo wrote:
             | Only marginally. The iPhone 14 non-Pro has the (also
             | enormous) camera system from the 13 Pro, only with the
             | telephoto lens removed.
        
       | brookst wrote:
       | Well this detailed camera review conclusively proves that I am a
       | mediocre photographer who doesn't go anywhere interesting. Thanks
       | a lot, lux.camera. Thanks a lot.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | pj_mukh wrote:
         | "To review this camera we went to these most interesting, most
         | beautiful places."
         | 
         | Okay...but how does it perform taking pictures of my toy dog in
         | suburb-town USA?
        
       | stingrae wrote:
       | Coming from a iPhone 12 to the 14, the aggressive switching
       | between lenses is pretty annoying in close and far shots. The
       | lens shift screws up framing and hits at unpredictable times.
        
         | kooshball wrote:
         | can't you turn that off?
        
           | zimpenfish wrote:
           | Not in the stock Camera app, no, but other apps let you
           | specifically control which lens is being used.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | You can turn off automatic macro switching:
           | https://support.apple.com/en-
           | us/HT210571#:~:text=You%20can%2....
        
         | i_have_an_idea wrote:
         | Same. As a casual Camera user / not an enthusiast, I find the
         | camera experience on the 14 pro unpleasant and a downgrade from
         | the 12 pro.
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | Using something like Halide[1] gives you more control - once
         | you pick a lens, it stays picked.
         | 
         | [1] Other camera apps are available, etc.
        
         | sangeeth96 wrote:
         | Agreed. I thought mine was broken when I received it but alas,
         | this is how it is. Was hoping a software update would fix the
         | framing issues.
        
           | efields wrote:
           | I have a Genius Bar appointment I've rescheduled twice to
           | discuss this, but it sounds like i really have no reason to
           | believe there's anything "wrong" with my phone. I do hope
           | software fixes can help, but maybe there's just some
           | expectations in my head I need to recalibrate.
        
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