[HN Gopher] Linux boot partitions and how to set them up
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Linux boot partitions and how to set them up
        
       Author : throw7
       Score  : 124 points
       Date   : 2022-11-03 18:13 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (0pointer.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (0pointer.net)
        
       | CameronNemo wrote:
       | _As growing the size of an existing ESP is problematic (for
       | example, because there's no space available immediately after the
       | ESP, or because some low-quality firmware reacts badly to the ESP
       | changing size)_
       | 
       |  _Code quality of the firmware in typical systems is known to not
       | always be great. When relying on the file system driver included
       | in the firmware it's hence a good idea to limit use to operations
       | that have a better chance to be correctly implemented._
       | 
       | Remind me again why I should cater to people who insist on
       | writing and running terrible code.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Because that's everyone? What computer are you using that has
         | really high quality firmware?
        
           | CameronNemo wrote:
           | I guess that is fair. Most of my non-Android computers use
           | U-Boot. One is some UEFI implementation. I don't know how it
           | copes with growing the ESP. I don't see why it would freak,
           | though.
        
             | yrro wrote:
             | Many of us have been burned by making the assumption that
             | UEFI implementations behave sensibly. Most of the pain
             | points have been ironed out by now, yes, but the lesson
             | I've taken away is: don't assume.
        
       | sagarun wrote:
       | Meanwhile the apple firmware cannot read vFAT ESP. Apple wants
       | ESP to be HFS.
        
       | freedinosaur wrote:
       | > Consider removing any mention of ESP/XBOOTLDR from /etc/fstab,
       | and just let systemd-gpt-auto-generator do its thing.
       | 
       | TIL! My NixOS configuration just got a little bit simpler, and
       | more uniform between machines.
        
       | cesarb wrote:
       | > For example, it's probably worth mentioning that some
       | distributions decided to put kernels onto the root file system of
       | the OS itself. For this setup to work the boot loader itself
       | [sic!] must implement a non-trivial part of the storage stack.
       | 
       | IIRC, older bootloaders like LILO used a simpler approach: after
       | each kernel update, a userspace program asked the kernel for the
       | list of sectors which contained the kernel file, and wrote the
       | list to a map file; the bootloader then read that map file (its
       | sector hardcoded into the bootloader by the same userspace
       | program), and loaded the kernel by reading the sectors directly.
       | Neither the bootloader nor its userspace installer needed to know
       | anything about filesystems or other parts of the storage stack,
       | and it worked perfectly with RAID 1.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | That only works with simple filesystems, though; it'll fall
         | apart if your root filesystem uses, say, compression,
         | encryption, or possibly any RAID except mirroring (depending on
         | the details and what the bootloader can handle).
        
       | Kwpolska wrote:
       | I don't really see the point in using the ESP for anything
       | serious. Many of the arguments are also super weak, like the one
       | about /boot/efi/ being nested (in how many cases is this actually
       | important to anyone and anything?). The ESP size issue
       | successfully prevents the real world adoption of this, since
       | Linux kernels are 50-100 MB each, which means you could maybe fit
       | one on your average ESP, and good luck convincing real users to
       | reinstall Windows just to make some Linux guys happy.
       | 
       | Instead, I would prefer a different approach. An approach that
       | can be seen in Windows and macOS, that is: no user serviceable
       | parts inside. It would work like this:
       | 
       | * Keep two partitions.
       | 
       | * ESP contains a simple program (let's call it stub), whose only
       | job is to call the real boot loader on /boot.
       | 
       | * The stub is simple (minimum user interaction) and doesn't need
       | updating very often. It has drivers/support software for storage
       | media and some reasonable file systems (VFAT, Ext4). It may also
       | support some simple form of disk encryption if desired.
       | 
       | * The real bootloader (as well as any kernels) live on the
       | separate /boot partition. The bootloader can do all the fancy
       | things it wants, it can display a fancy wallpaper, support mouse
       | input, and so on.
       | 
       | * The ESP is not auto-mounted, might not even be listed in
       | /etc/fstab.
       | 
       | * Whenever the stub is updated (which would happen rarely, since
       | it's meant to be simple and minimum), some post-install scripts
       | would mount ESP in any location they please (be it
       | /run/{uuid.uuid4()}), copy over the new stub, and immediately
       | unmount it.
       | 
       | Simpler, safer, will make it harder for rogue software or `rm -rf
       | /*` to mess up the booting of the system, and will not require
       | any changes to existing partition tables.
        
         | xearl wrote:
         | Your "different approach" sounds almost exactly like the
         | approach proposed in the fine article for the "ESP too small"
         | case (a case which you assume as a given).
        
       | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
       | I'm not sold on using automount to reduce the time spent with the
       | filesystems mounted. Unless I've missed something, having a
       | filesystem mounted doesn't make it any more susceptible to
       | damage; being "mounted" just means that the kernel populates its
       | data structures in memory and adds it to the VFS, it doesn't
       | incur any ongoing r/w access. What risks corruption is writing
       | data... which this doesn't stop, because the moment anything
       | tries to access it the OS will helpfully mount the filesystem
       | again.
        
         | jcranmer wrote:
         | If things were set up to only mount the filesystems while
         | they're being modified to update the kernel, I can see the
         | value in that. I'm guessing that's not being proposed here,
         | though, because it's too much friction to change the current
         | boot system scripts, and automount doesn't incur the same
         | friction?
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | Even then, what would it change? The only time those
           | filesystems are being written to is for a new kernel, a new
           | bootloader, or a bootloader config change. In every one of
           | those cases, the filesystem still has to be mounted, so I'm
           | not seeing what the benefit is of keeping things unmounted
           | right up until you're going to write something. (Basically, I
           | can't seem to see any version of this that reduces the actual
           | total writes to the filesystem.)
        
         | AshamedCaptain wrote:
         | In fact, I was bitten once by corruption because the _unmount_
         | operation was interrupted mid-write. Not that surprising
         | considering it's a much less tested scenario on fs code.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | Okay, _that_ hadn 't occurred to me. I did wonder if
           | _mounting_ was a problem, if VFAT has  "last mounted time" or
           | other metadata that gets written per-mount.
        
       | AshamedCaptain wrote:
       | Even Windows has a separate, NTFS boot partition these days. Fail
       | to see the point of this, and since the main take basically is
       | "put your /boot inside the FAT ESP, or if not possible, make
       | /boot a FAT partition", it's also bound to create a lot of
       | disagreement.
        
         | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
         | Does it? On my Windows 11 install, the EFI partition is still
         | FAT32. There are no other partitions than the C and the
         | recovery partition.
         | 
         | Am I missing something?
        
           | CameronNemo wrote:
           | The commenter is saying that there is an NTFS boot partition
           | that is chained after the ESP. So UEFI mounts and execs
           | whatever is in the (vFAT) ESP, and then that ESP bootloader
           | loads data from the (NTFS) boot partition.
        
             | vetinari wrote:
             | MSR (that another partition) has no role in Windows boot.
             | Windows will work without it being present at all.
        
           | p_l wrote:
           | Windows has been setting up Reserved partitions with boot
           | code for some time now - even (or especially) on systems
           | without EFI
        
             | deathanatos wrote:
             | The OP is about a separate _boot_ partition, which is
             | normally where the kernel and associated data (on Linux, an
             | initramfs, obviously Windows would differ a bit).
             | 
             | The "Reserved" partition on Windows machines isn't really a
             | boot partition, for any meaningful definition of it. It's
             | just ... reserved, and MS being MS. On my machine, it's
             | empty (unformatted, all 0s). It is lightly documented here:
             | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-
             | hardware/manufactu...
             | 
             | (I'd expect your typical GPT Windows install to have about
             | four partitions: the ESP, the empty "reserved" partition, a
             | recovery partition, and the main NTFS partition.)
        
               | cesarb wrote:
               | > The "Reserved" partition on Windows machines isn't
               | really a boot partition, for any meaningful definition of
               | it. It's just ... reserved, and MS being MS. On my
               | machine, it's empty (unformatted, all 0s). It is lightly
               | documented here: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-
               | us/windows-hardware/manufactu...
               | 
               | IIRC, that "reserved" partition is to allow converting
               | the data partition which follows it to a "dynamic disk"
               | (which AFAIK, is Microsoft's equivalent to a Linux LVM
               | PV). That conversion needs to grow the partition
               | backwards to prepend some headers, and that extra space
               | comes from shrinking the reserved partition just before
               | it.
        
               | p_l wrote:
               | On various BIOS-based systems, the reserved partition
               | would contain files necessary for booting windows from
               | its system volume, bridging the gap between what could be
               | accessed by simplistic MBR boot code, the NTFS boot code
               | block, and the NTFS-understanding, ARC emulating (for
               | NT5) or EFI-emulating (NT6) boot system that would load
               | target system.
               | 
               | Details on whether reserved partition would be created
               | and what would be on it depend on hardware you're
               | installing on, and if separate boot partition is
               | necessary windows installer would inform you about need
               | to create an extra partition.
        
         | vetinari wrote:
         | Windows does not have a separate NTFS boot partition. MSR is
         | not it (check the size and content). Windows Boot Manager and
         | BCD are stored on the EFI partition. Windows Boot Manager
         | itself does understand NTFS: it loads winload.efi, ntoskrnl.exe
         | and core drivers from the system root itself. This way, Windows
         | is not going to have the common linux problem ("update failed,
         | /boot too small").
         | 
         | Two partitions are needed only for Bitlocker; one has to be
         | unencrypted.
         | 
         | Similarly with Apple: they use APFS subvolume for boot files.
         | They do not bother with multiple partitions and static
         | allocations, guessing, what size is going to be OK. They can
         | use as much or as little space as they need.
         | 
         | --
         | 
         | With Linux, I've been using btrfs subvolume for /boot. It works
         | with "normal" distributions, grub complains (it cannot write
         | there; I find that OK). The dynamic nature of the space used is
         | great. It doesn't work with ostree-based distributions (Fedora
         | Silverblue & its ilk); ostree cannot generate proper BLS and
         | grub.cfg for subvolumes.
        
           | AshamedCaptain wrote:
           | I'm talking about the WinRE partition, which is required to
           | boot Bitlocker encrypted boot partition (and Bitlocker is
           | enabled by default). Enabling Bitlocker without one results
           | in an error message, and Windows happily recreates/resizes
           | the WinRE partition on every (OS) upgrade by simply reducing
           | the size of the main partition. It has been a long time that
           | the size of the ESP is not enough for all the stuff that
           | Windows wants to do on preboot.
           | 
           | For the record, and showing again the unfairness of the
           | entire MS monopoly situation, most commercial UEFI
           | implementations out there happen to understand NTFS. This
           | allows e.g. a Windows pendrive to boot no matter how the user
           | formats it.
        
       | boomboomsubban wrote:
       | So is this the first work Microsoft set Pottering to do? Kinda
       | supports my personal conspiracy theory that Microsoft's aiming to
       | make secure boot only possible with systemd-boot.
       | 
       | Or Microsoft is trying to make dual booting easier without using
       | the simplest solution of making a larger ESP the default.
        
       | adrian_b wrote:
       | There are many years since I no longer create partitions on any
       | SSD or HDD, because I believe that this serves no useful purpose
       | and it just wastes a part of the SSD/HDD.
       | 
       | I format directly the raw unpartitioned SSD/HDD with a file
       | system that uses 100% of the capacity, with no wasted sectors. At
       | least on Linux and FreeBSD, there is no need of partitions.
       | 
       | For booting the computers, I either boot them from Ethernet or I
       | boot them from a small USB memory that uses a FAT file system for
       | storing the OS kernel, either in the format required by UEFI
       | booting, or, when booting Linux in legacy BIOS mode, together
       | with syslinux, which loads the kernel.
        
         | cesarb wrote:
         | That is risky, since without a partition table, some operating
         | systems and disk management tools will treat the disk as empty,
         | making it easy to accidentally overwrite data.
         | 
         | > 100% of the capacity, with no wasted sectors.
         | 
         | You will never have that. SSDs have a large amount of reserved
         | space, and even on HDDs, there are some reserved tracks for
         | defect management.
        
           | adrian_b wrote:
           | By "some operating systems and disk management tools" you
           | mean MS Windows and Windows tools.
           | 
           | Obviously, I do not use unpartitioned SSDs/HDDs with Windows.
           | On the other hand, With Linux and *BSD systems they work
           | perfectly fine, regardless whether they are internal or
           | removable.
           | 
           | For interchange with Windows, I use only USB drives or SSDs
           | that are partitioned and formatted as exFAT. On the
           | unpartitioned SSDs/HDDs I use file systems like XFS, UFS or
           | ZFS, which could not be used with Windows anyway.
           | 
           | Any SSD/HDD that uses non-Windows file systems should never
           | be inserted in a Windows computer, even when it is
           | partitioned. When a SSD/HDD is partitioned, it may be hoped
           | that Windows will not alter a partition marked as type 0x83
           | (Linux), but Windows might still destroy the partition table
           | and the boot sector of a FAT partition. It happens frequently
           | that a bootable Linux USB drive is damaged when it is
           | inserted in a Windows computer, so the boot loader must be
           | reinstalled. So partitioning an USB drive or SSD does not
           | protect them from Windows.
           | 
           | >> 100% of the capacity, with no wasted sectors. > You will
           | never have that.
           | 
           | I thought that it is obvious that I have meant 100% of the
           | capacity available for users, because there is no way to
           | access the extra storage used by the drive controller and
           | also no reason to want to access that, because it has a
           | different purpose than storing user data, so your
           | "correction" is pointless.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | I have taken this approach for secondary drives where I want to
         | use the entire drive as a big filesystem for data.
         | 
         | For the system disk I have always partitioned it though. I
         | generally create at least /, /var, /home, and /usr. That way
         | it's less likely that a runaway process can fill up the entire
         | disk, at worst it might fill up /home or /var.
         | 
         | And unless I'm really space-constrained, I'll leave some
         | unpartitioned space as well, for later flexibility.
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | You're talking about saving _at most_ 200MBish. That's a lot of
         | work to maintain for little gain...
        
           | adrian_b wrote:
           | There is less work, not more work.
        
             | Volundr wrote:
             | This sounds like work to me
             | 
             | > For booting the computers, I either boot them from
             | Ethernet or I boot them from a small USB memory that uses a
             | FAT file system for storing the OS kernel, either in the
             | format required by UEFI booting, or, when booting Linux in
             | legacy BIOS mode, together with syslinux, which loads the
             | kernel.
             | 
             | Creating boot USB drives (which I think need partitions
             | don't they?) or setting up a PXE boot server would take me
             | a lot more effort than an extra minute with gdisk to create
             | partitions before formatting the disk.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | If the USB drives were bought formatted as FAT, which is
               | always true for those smaller than 32 GB, they already
               | have the required partition.
               | 
               | For booting with UEFI, you just need to create the
               | directories with the names expected by the firmware. For
               | legacy booting, you just need to install syslinux, which
               | takes a second.
               | 
               | Then the USB drive can be used to boot any computer,
               | without any other work, for many years.
               | 
               | When you change the kernel, you just mount the USB drive
               | (which is not mounted otherwise), then you copy the new
               | kernel to the USB drive (possibly together with an initrd
               | file), renaming it during the copy, you unmount the USB
               | drive and that is all.
               | 
               | You can keep around a few USB drives with different
               | kernel versions, and if an update does not go well, you
               | just replace the USB drive with one having an older
               | version.
               | 
               | Configuring a DHCP/TFTP server for Ethernet booting is
               | done only once.
               | 
               | Adding extra computers may need a directory copy in the
               | directory of the TFTP server only when the new computers
               | have a different hardware that requires different OS
               | kernels.
               | 
               | Updating a kernel requires just a file copy towards the
               | directory of the TFTP server, replacing the old kernel.
               | 
               | None of these operations requires more work than when
               | using a boot partition on the root device.
               | 
               | There is less work because you make booting USB drives or
               | a DHCP/TFTP server only once for many years or even
               | decades, while you need to partition the SSD/HDD whenever
               | you buy a new one that will be used as the root device.
        
         | CameronNemo wrote:
         | So your solution to not use partitions is to use multiple
         | disks? You do understand that people invented partitions
         | precisely because they wanted to use a single disk, right?
         | 
         | I am glad this setup works for you, but many people will not
         | want to need a USB drive to boot their desktop, laptop, tablet,
         | phone, et cetera.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | > For booting the computers, I either boot them from Ethernet
         | or I boot them from a small USB memory that uses a FAT file
         | system for storing the OS kernel, either in the format required
         | by UEFI booting, or, when booting Linux in legacy BIOS mode,
         | together with syslinux, which loads the kernel.
         | 
         | That certainly works, but I'm pretty sure that moving booting
         | off of your main disk is the only reason you can go without
         | partitions, and I'm also pretty sure that most people don't
         | want to deal with that.
        
       | dottedmag wrote:
       | Great to see Lennart back working on what systemd does best:
       | streamlining and cleaning existing grubby (pun intended) parts of
       | Linux.
       | 
       | /boot (and ESP) management always feels hacky at best.
        
         | CameronNemo wrote:
         | Can you explain what about the boot partition status quo seems
         | hacky, and how this approach "cleans" it?
        
           | admax88qqq wrote:
           | Issues with the current setup are pretty well laid out in the
           | article.
        
             | CameronNemo wrote:
             | The article does not characterize the status quo as hacky,
             | and furthermore does not acknowledge the existence of
             | mainstream setups that do not share the pitfalls of the
             | "typical setup". I.E. the article kind of creates a
             | strawman.
        
       | hyperupcall wrote:
       | This is excellent!
       | 
       | Over the years, I've been pleased to see that more and more
       | distributions are writing their disk images and the like to the
       | ESP. (Previously, dd'd USB images for distro installing
       | _required_ the creation of a /boot partition)
       | 
       | The logical next step would be to standardize everything through
       | systemd, and ensure all boot images are autodiscoverable and
       | automatically bootable.
       | 
       | It's been somewhat frustrating for distributions to install GRUB,
       | hijacking the previous prioritized boot PE, and have entries for
       | other installed Linux distributions missing.
        
         | amarshall wrote:
         | > through systemd, and ensure all boot images are
         | autodiscoverable and automatically bootable.
         | 
         | See systemd-boot and BootLoaderSpec, both mentioned in OP.
         | 
         | https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/systemd-bo...
         | https://systemd.io/BOOT_LOADER_SPECIFICATION/
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | How to make one boot partition to rule them all (debian, secure
       | boot disabled for UEFI due to weird bug with how files are laid
       | out with removable flag):                 parted -s "${diskpath}"
       | mklabel gpt       parted -s "${diskpath}" mkpart primary 1MiB
       | 2MiB       parted -s "${diskpath}" set 1 bios_grub on
       | parted -s "${diskpath}" mkpart primary 2Mib 202MiB       parted
       | -s "${diskpath}" set 2 esp on       sleep 1       mkfs.fat -F 32
       | -n "boot" "${diskpath}2"       mount "/dev/disk/by-label/boot"
       | "/boot"       grub-install --target=i386-pc "${diskpath}"
       | grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot
       | --removable --no-uefi-secure-boot       grub-mkconfig >
       | "/boot/grub/grub.cfg"
       | 
       | This makes two partitions, one for GRUB to inject legacy BIOS
       | boot code into and one for the ESP. ESP gets mounted to /boot,
       | grub gets setup to support both. Only bug is Debian complains
       | about symlinking .bak files for initrd, no biggie.
       | 
       | (This is part of a larger Debian imaging script I made)
        
         | GauntletWizard wrote:
         | The symlinking .bat files for initrd ended up completely
         | bricking my Ubuntu installation a few months ago, so... take
         | heed? I am unimpressed by the quality and robustness of that
         | whole stuff, though, but ended up writing essentially this
         | article into my notes for the next Arch installation I make,
         | where I think there's a fair chance that EFI will live in /efi
         | but be symlinked in /boot.
         | 
         | There's a whole other problem, though, of my wanting to use
         | secure boot. Ubuntu was the easy out for that. At the moment,
         | it's just disabled on my machines, which is far from optimal.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | > grub-mkconfig > "/boot/grub/grub.cfg"
         | 
         | Shell redirection is fine, but you could just use `grub-
         | mkconfig -o` to set the output file.
        
           | IgorPartola wrote:
           | Why? One more flag to remember whereas redirection works for
           | any program.
        
             | gnu8 wrote:
             | It doesn't matter which end of the egg.
        
         | Dunedan wrote:
         | > This makes two partitions, one for GRUB to inject legacy BIOS
         | boot code into and one for the ESP.
         | 
         | Why do you still need the legacy BIOS boot logic?
        
           | candiddevmike wrote:
           | For BIOS boot, the BIOS looks at the first couple of blocks
           | on a hard drive for the boot code. This is the first GPT
           | partition that gets created, and the future grub-install code
           | injects the BIOS bootloader there. Thus, to support BIOS and
           | UEFI, you need the BIOS bootloader at the beginning of the
           | drive.
        
             | Karliss wrote:
             | Yes, but why would you want the BIOS boot assuming you have
             | a motherboard made in last 10 years and it has a UEFI
             | implementation which isn't completely broken.
             | 
             | I might understand doing that just in case when preparing a
             | bootable flash drive. Why complicate things for permanent
             | installations where you know your current hardware and your
             | next system after 5 years is unlikely to much worse than
             | current one?
        
               | candiddevmike wrote:
               | You wouldn't, this is more for cloud/virtual images where
               | some providers support UEFI but most still only support
               | BIOS.
        
           | WaitWaitWha wrote:
           | To provide more to the "why", although end-user devices have
           | moved away from BIOS-only boot, there are large number of
           | systems that have no alternative to BIOS, and the hardware
           | cannot be upgraded, only the firmware and software.
           | 
           | Most of the systems I have ran into were in SCADA[0], PMS[1],
           | and BMS[2].
           | 
           | [0]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCADA
           | 
           | [1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_management_system
           | 
           | [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_management_system
        
       | CameronNemo wrote:
       | _" The Boot partition will also have to carry an emtpy "efi"
       | directory that can be used as the inner mount point, and serves
       | no other purpose."_
       | 
       | You could substitute Boot for Root in this sentence and flip it
       | around on Poettering.
        
         | freedinosaur wrote:
         | The root partition already contains a set of empty directories,
         | and Lennart has been working on reducing those where possible
         | (see usr-merge).
        
           | CameronNemo wrote:
           | It just feels like such a small thing that is not even worth
           | mentioning or taking into account.
        
       | cryptonector wrote:
       | Using ZFS makes this all a lot simpler.
        
         | iio7 wrote:
         | No, it does not.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | deathanatos wrote:
         | I fail to see how? The ESP partition must be vFAT on GPT, in
         | order for the BIOS to find it. Your BIOS doesn't speak ZFS.
         | 
         | The main partition can be whatever, but that's not typically
         | available until after the kernel & initramfs are loaded. (As it
         | is typically initramfs that does the prompt for the password,
         | to decrypt it.)
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | ZFS is the "crypto solves this" of filesystems.
         | 
         | Adding out of tree ZFS to the boot mix sounds hella
         | complicated.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | Interestingly, GRUB actually supports ZFS; it has the dubious
           | distinction of being the only extant implementation of ZFS
           | that's GPL licensed, but... probably _because_ of that... it
           | 's separate from the main OpenZFS implementation is extremely
           | feature-poor. This results in fun things like Ubuntu's root-
           | on-ZFS layout creating 2 pools; a boot pool (bpool) that GRUB
           | can read, and a root pool (rpool) with the OS. It's not
           | _that_ complicated, but it 's not _nice_.
        
             | Volundr wrote:
             | Interesting. I've never really wanted on boot on ZFS, and I
             | definitely don't see the point if I'd need a dedicated pool
             | for it.
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | It _could_ be really cool; it would let you snapshot your
               | boot filesystem and roll back to a previous
               | configuration.
               | 
               | ...I say, as someone who does in fact leave my boot
               | filesystems on VFAT:)
        
               | vetinari wrote:
               | Ubuntu _did_ snapshot the bpool; unfortunately, it did a
               | poor job of garbage collecting the snapshots. Meaning
               | that eventually you would have failing kernel updates due
               | to lack of space, and having to manually clean it up.
               | 
               | Since 22.04, zsys (the tool that did the snapshoting) is
               | not installed by default.
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | > Since 22.04, zsys (the tool that did the snapshoting)
               | is not installed by default.
               | 
               | Er, are they not snapshotting the root filesystem or ex.
               | /home by default then?
        
               | vetinari wrote:
               | No, you have to install and enable zsys yourself.
        
       | rektide wrote:
       | AFAIK Debian still doesnt have any integration available for
       | handling thee integration of systemd-boot & kernel packages:
       | there's nothing to maintain the loader/entries files that
       | systemd-boot expects! It's really a shame because systemd-boot is
       | 10x simpler and 100x more plesant to work with than grub & it's
       | multiple overlapping but different obtuse config handling shell
       | scripts. Bootctl is excellent & understandable, the entries are
       | human readable/authorable.
       | 
       | I've been on systemd-boot for a long while now. For a while I was
       | just hand maintaining vmlinuzs & loader entries, copying &
       | editing stuff on /boot/efi. Easy but inelegant & I'd forget the
       | very simple steps.
       | 
       | I've been copy pasting (well, its in my ansible now)
       | /etc/kernel/postinst.d/ hooks from stackoverflow, which writes
       | these files, & that greatly simplified life. It's a jank hurdle &
       | I wish my os would actually support this wonderful easy to use
       | tool. Systemd-boot is so much less obtuse, such a breath or fresh
       | air, after years of grub (and many of uboot as well, but that's a
       | different sector).
       | 
       | I made the jump ~two years ago to a single partition, just the
       | ESP partition. Theres a warning abiut not being able to set
       | permissions properly but its worked fine & been so much more
       | pleasant to operate. Very strongly recommend. It just worked for
       | me on Debian, no real fiddling.
       | 
       | https://github.com/filakhtov/kernel-postinst-d/blob/master/9...
        
         | yrro wrote:
         | OTOH it's nice to have access to the boot loader via serial
         | console. The system developers judgement is that it's up to the
         | firmware to provide serial console access if needed. Well I'll
         | just get my chequebook out then...
         | 
         | Also it would be nice to be able to interact with the boot
         | loader on a modern laptop display without having to get out a
         | magnifying glass. Another problem that is deigned to be the
         | fault of the firmware.
         | 
         | One of the great things about open source operating systems is
         | that people step up to provide these sorts of improvements and
         | I think it's a shame that systemd-boot will cause regression
         | here.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-03 23:00 UTC)