[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Working in a VR Headset?
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Ask HN: Working in a VR Headset?
I am working full remote right now(programming/gamedev) and I
travel several times a year for periods of up to two months.
Because of specifics of my job I need to have a powerful
workstation(I mostly need a powerful CPU) and I am comfortable with
at least two 27" monitors. Traveling with that much stuff is only
possible with a car, and even then the whole setup takes too much
space. Laptops are getting there with the compute power, but the
27" monitors aren't getting any smaller. Meta Quest Pro(which seems
to be the top of the line now) has been just released and even tho
it is somewhat pricey($1500), it still costs as much as three good
27" monitors. Does anyone have any useful experience to share on
working in a VR headset? Is it comfortable for longer periods of
time? How is it on the eyes?
Author : penetrarthur
Score : 106 points
Date : 2022-11-05 15:11 UTC (7 hours ago)
| clolege wrote:
| What I will say is that it seems quite unsexy.
|
| I would be quite hesitant to use it in public, especially in the
| office.
| lm28469 wrote:
| > Is it comfortable for longer periods of time?
|
| Absolutely no
|
| > How is it on the eyes?
|
| Like staring at a tv from 4cm away for extend periods of time
| gpm wrote:
| This just isn't true, optics really do work, the focal point is
| not close to your face and it doesn't feel or effect you like
| the screen is close to your face in anyway.
| lm28469 wrote:
| I'd give all my belongings to anyone who can work full time
| for a year with a VR headset instead of screens and who
| wouldn't complain a single time about it
|
| I've used VR headsets, nothing is comfortable after even an
| hour of use, we're just not designed for that
| zmmmmm wrote:
| > I've used VR headsets, nothing is comfortable after even
| an hour of use, we're just not designed for that
|
| There seems to be something specific about VR that invites
| people to vastly over-extrapolate their personal
| experience. I find it really difficult to believe you've
| tried the Quest Pro or NReal Air [0].
|
| Current hardware have lots of other flaws but what you
| mention (comfort) is mostly solved for most people (there
| are always exceptions).
|
| [0] https://www.nreal.ai/air/
| terafo wrote:
| I don't think it is possible to not complain about ANY
| modern development system a single time in a year.
| mellosouls wrote:
| See the article linked in my comment - before you first
| posted here - for information on who to send your
| belongings to.
| abeyer wrote:
| May not be for you, but personal experience and hearing
| stories from others makes it clear this is far from
| universally true.
|
| I used a Quest 2 once at a conference exhibit booth demo --
| so maybe 10 mins max in the headset, probably less -- and it
| left me dizzy, disoriented, and unable to focus my eyes
| correctly for at least as long after taking it off. Had to
| sit on the floor in the exhibit hall to clear my head.
| janoc wrote:
| If you were unable to focus your eyes properly afterwards
| it means the headset you have tried has been likely poorly
| adjusted and/or damaged. Typically the interocular distance
| was likely set incorrectly for you (there is a slider on
| the headset physically moving the displays & lenses),
| forcing your eyes to strain in order to see clearly.
|
| Another aspect causing discomfort is for the headset lenses
| to be sweaty/greasy/fogged up slightly - again very common
| when doing mass demos on exhibit floors ...
|
| The dizziness and disorientation depend very much on the
| content you are working with. This is _not_ universal! So
| the fact that some demo you have tried made you very dizzy
| and feeling uncomfortable only means that that demo was
| poorly made and not that all VR content will feel like
| that.
|
| In addition, the feeling of dizziness and motion sickness
| will diminish over time for most people. So don't judge the
| entire concept on your poor 10 minutes experience that you
| had in less than ideal conditions.
|
| (I have worked over 20 years on VR/AR, both as a researcher
| and commercially)
| isoprophlex wrote:
| A friend showed me his VR setup. For me, 30 seconds of
| wearing that headset in a flight sim meant 30 minutes of
| fighting against nausea. It was quite hilarious how badly
| my body reacted to it.
| janoc wrote:
| That's likely the flight simulator application causing
| it, not the VR headset. Those things are extremely
| performance intensive even without VR, with VR it gets
| only that much worse. Unless the application & the setup
| is very high end and extremely well tuned, it is going to
| be a barf fest due to lag, poor frame rate and other
| issues. Your friend is likely used to it (most people
| lose the feeling of nausea and motion sickness over time)
| but for you it was likely too much.
|
| Ask your friend to show you some of the basic demos that
| came with the headset they have. I bet you will have much
| better time.
| lovehashbrowns wrote:
| That's how it felt for me as well the first time I got a
| VR headset. Felt super sick within like a minute or two
| of trying it. I actually felt stupid for going with the
| hype. I gave it another go anyway and my body started to
| adjust to it, though. After a few days of playing Blade &
| Sorcery I was no longer getting sick at all. My eyes
| would still feel weird after a gaming session, though.
| B&S is such a fun game, btw. It's one of the weirdest
| stress reliever games I've ever played.
| codex_irl wrote:
| Has anyone tried doing this with a Varjo headset?
| https://varjo.com
|
| I would love to try this, they have some of the highest
| resolutions that I've seen but a little $$$
| kaapipo wrote:
| As someone who has worked with Varjo products (XR-3, XR-1 and
| VR-3), my feelings about them are that the image quality is
| really good, but the accompanying hardware and software make
| the experience a PITA
| i_like_apis wrote:
| One complaint about it is you need a fast router and ideally a
| wired connection to it from your computer. Otherwise it can be
| too laggy to use.
|
| But virtual desktops are cool. The Quest Pro makes it nice
| because the pass through camera is quite good.
| lumost wrote:
| something I've wondered, how does any of this work with
| glasses/vision correction?
| ilaksh wrote:
| Depends on the headset or glasses. Quest Pro designed for
| glasses. Quest 2 can work but you need spacers if you use it a
| lot otherwise they get scratched.
|
| Anyway I would consider Quest Pro or Pico 4 or something new
| rather than Quest 2.
| stuckinhell wrote:
| It's not good enough yet. The strain on the eyes is apparently
| really bad in VR. My husband needs glasses again due to doing VR
| 1-2hr a day.
| majani wrote:
| There's just so many insurmountable physical limitations to VR.
| I wonder what Facebook are thinking will mitigate for that
| PretzelPirate wrote:
| From working in VR or playing games in VR? I spend just as much
| time in VR as your husband and it hasn't hurt my eyesight at
| all, but I'm not spending that time reading.
|
| I'm interested in how you were able to determine that VR was
| the cause vs age or just eye strain from using a regular screen
| in suboptimal conditions.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| I don't believe GP's assertion. High more likely the the
| husband is 40-50 years old and at the point where he had
| vision changes or the focus muscles in the eyes aren't
| working as well and he would need reading glasses... with or
| without VR use.
| stuckinhell wrote:
| He plays a lot flatscreen to vr conversions. I'm guessing it
| was VR, because after the VR sessions he said his eyes feel
| tired.
| jstrieb wrote:
| Can't comment on what it's like with a modern headset, but I have
| used an old Oculus Go with great success, despite its low
| resolution. It's definitely uncomfortable and hard on the eyes
| for long periods of time, but the focus it affords makes it
| worthwhile for short bursts.
|
| I set everything up to interface with my computer using a web
| browser on the headset, which might not match your use case.
|
| https://jstrieb.github.io/posts/vr-programming/
| TexanFeller wrote:
| I get upset when my workplaces don't provide me with a high DPI
| monitor. I feel every screen should be a "retina display" by now
| and we should accept no less. Needless to say I feel that working
| in VR is currently a sad joke. VR headsets simply don't have
| adequate PPI and optics yet. Text is barely legible unless it's
| blown up to ridiculous sizes.
| georgewsinger wrote:
| VR pixel density is arguably on an exponential curve. Most
| headsets are within one tripling of "human eye resolution".[1]
| A few are within one doubling.
|
| [1] https://i.imgur.com/Ml1dv3w.png
| marshmellman wrote:
| "Arguably" seems right. It's definitely not obvious from the
| data points in that chart...
| itsyaboi wrote:
| The Varjo XR-3 has a PPD over 70. Sadly locked behind a
| subscription pricing model.
| coder543 wrote:
| As noted elsewhere in this discussion, the Nreal Air glasses
| already offer 49ppd, which is way higher than the VR headsets
| on that chart. I haven't gotten to try them out yet, but they
| seem interesting.
| gravenimage wrote:
| I worked for about a month using the Immersed app and an Oculus
| 2. I judged it workable for me, but probably near the borderline.
| The positives were that the software generally worked (modulus
| some bugs), and I could code, attend Teams meetings (as an avatar
| with a VR camera) and have multiple monitors. Interestingly,
| Teams meetings with the other participants on a virtual monitor
| about 2 metres away were very noticeably less psychologically
| stressful. (I suspect some evolutionary/neurological thing about
| faces in a monitor 60cms away). The resolution was fine, but not
| great. I wear spectacles (slightly near-sighted, a bit too much
| to drive without) and the headset was comfortable enough. With
| the Oculus 2 the pass-thru was rubbish, so touch-typing and a
| tidy desk vital. The negatives were that a _good_ wifi connection
| to the laptop was necessary; the battery-life on the headset
| meant I had to trail a wire across to keep it on for >2 hours;
| it was slightly sweaty (I didn't get the serious discomfort other
| people have experienced); the default headband wasn't great; and
| in the end it wasn't better than my physical multimonitor setup.
| I seem also to not suffer from VR-sickness (or motion sickness
| for that matter), but YMMV greatly.
| clolege wrote:
| > Interestingly, Teams meetings with the other participants on
| a virtual monitor about 2 metres away were very noticeably less
| psychologically stressful.
|
| That's fascinating, but it makes sense. I wonder how much of
| "Zoom fatigue" is caused by feeling you need more personal
| space, and could be mitigated by just having the screen be (or
| seem to be) the distance away that a normal human would.
|
| You could probably get pretty far with floating screens rather
| than the whole avatar thing. They'd all still be staring at you
| when they talk to each other though.
| KMnO4 wrote:
| > Teams meetings with the other participants on a virtual
| monitor about 2 metres away were very noticeably less
| psychologically stressful.
|
| How were you projected? Was everyone else looking at a person
| gazing vaguely in the direction of the camera and obscured by a
| bulky headset?
| gravenimage wrote:
| Immersed has a 'VR camera' - you position it in your virtual
| space and so your Teams partners see a floating avatar with
| hands (the Quest 2 has hand tracking as well). It provoked
| initial mirth but didn't disrupt much.
| codemac wrote:
| Almost all your complaints are addressed with the quest pro.
| Especially the sweat and passthrough are all much better. I
| just used it yesterday to work w/horizons workrooms while at
| the office, and being able to see my surroundings was great.
|
| I'm going to re-try using Immersed as well, I haven't figured
| out a great way to address the latency in the office yet.
|
| Obviously, working at Meta means showing up as an avatar to a
| meeting isn't seen as a big or unique deal (usually more than
| one person in every meeting is an avatar). I do think video of
| someone's face is WAY more expressive than an avatar.
| amelius wrote:
| The worst aspect of the Quest is the connection with Meta.
|
| If you bought a Quest and thought you can finally watch NSFW
| content at work, remember that Zuckerberg is now watching
| over your shoulder.
|
| And he might even be looking at the code you write.
| throwaway413 wrote:
| Try horizon workroooms. To me, immersed is like Linux - tons
| of options, more features, but it's a bit trickier to set up
| just right and things seem to not stay right, it takes
| constant adjustment.
|
| Horizon workrooms was like using a Mac - it "just works" when
| I onboarded, less features but way less hassle. I much prefer
| it personally.
| jedimastert wrote:
| Not 100% on topic, but I got myselt a little wearable display
| (Vufine VUF-110) that straps on to my glasses, but it's not too
| bad as a second monitor. Of course, it's only 720p and could
| really only fit 80 characters wide on the screen, but that just
| keeps my line lengths short...
| yummypaint wrote:
| I have an index. Doing text editing in vr just can't compete with
| my 34" 4k monitor under any circumstances. However, virtual
| chalkboards can activate a different part of the brain and can be
| quite nice if you like working that way normally. VR is also
| excelent for viewing cad models but the tooling still needs tons
| of work. Once there is proper vr support in autodesk products i
| will likely use it maybe 30% of the time.
|
| One thing i didn't anticipate is how hard it is to do the
| equivalent of alt+tabbing to a reference document or similar and
| then jumping back to the main program in use in VR. Context
| switching is important for productivity and probably can't really
| be done right without remaking the whole desktop environment for
| vr. I would wait at least 5 years before expecting anything to be
| viable as a full monitor replacement.
| WithinReason wrote:
| There is a company called Simula that makes a headset
| specifically for work. I know about them because Meta subpoena'd
| them a month ago.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x293SiEdv4M
| amelius wrote:
| The headset doesn't look very ergonomic.
| edmundsauto wrote:
| Simula looks like it's pre-order only, do you know if they have
| actually shipped units? I couldn't tel if the preorder is for
| their first device or an iteration, it looked like their first
| serious foray.
| go_elmo wrote:
| Its still in development, nothing shipped yet!
|
| Meta lifted its ban on this, they will be able to ship! Also,
| has mucch better pixel density than quest headsets, even
| quest pro. Will be a bliss to read on. But provably no
| propper head tracking
| canadianfella wrote:
| georgewsinger wrote:
| We're still in preorder phase, aiming to ship most headsets
| in ~Q2 of 2023.
|
| This is our first foray into hardware, but we already
| developed a stable Linux VR Desktop
| (https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula) from 2017-2021.
|
| We try to provide frequent updates on our hardware
| engineering progress. For example, here's a recent post
| showing some videos of our review units:
| https://simulavr.com/blog/first-glimpse-of-review-units/ If
| you're interested in community discussion, you might also
| check out https://hn.algolia.com/?q=simulavr.com.
| cesarb wrote:
| > Simula looks like it's pre-order only, do you know if they
| have actually shipped units?
|
| Not yet, you can follow their progress at their blog
| (https://simulavr.com/blog/).
| capableweb wrote:
| Additionally, it would be great if one could try the software
| with already owned VR headsets, without having to buy their
| hardware before.
| abc3354 wrote:
| Their software is open source :
| https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula
|
| However it looks like they are more focused on hardware
| than software right now
| georgewsinger wrote:
| Yep, you can try out our software at
| https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula on the HTC Vive and
| Valve Index platforms.
|
| If you don't have one of those headsets, there are some
| videos of people (whom we have no affiliation with) on
| YouTube testing it out:
| https://youtu.be/8gVLF8SnK84?t=424 Here's also (a pretty
| old) video of me hacking on Simula, in Simula:
| https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI.
|
| It's also true that we're more focused on hardware right
| now. We plan on reverting more towards software
| development in 2023. For more details: https://github.com
| /SimulaVR/Simula/issues/180#issuecomment-1...
|
| Some things we have planned to implement include VR
| window tiling and some other UI stuff.
| ilaksh wrote:
| Have experience with Quest 2, too low res and poor comfort. I
| assume Quest Pro will be vastly better and will probably work for
| work if you use it with the Immersed app.
|
| It's going to depend 100% on the specific device. General
| experience is useless. Especially if it's not from a new model.
|
| If you really just care about 2d monitor simulation then check
| out Nreal.
| georgewsinger wrote:
| The Quest Pro has a better design than the Quest 2 (as well as
| many other benefits), but in terms of pixel density it only
| offers 10% higher PPD than the Quest 2 (which was already
| pretty low).[1]
|
| (Disclaimer: I'm affiliated with Simula).
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28691358
| Eisenstein wrote:
| > it only offers 10% higher PPD than the Quest 2
|
| My understanding is that the optics are what destroys
| readability on the Quest 2, and in that regard the Quest Pro
| is in a completely different league with the pancake lenses.
| robotburrito wrote:
| I have done it while developing some VR apps. Only for quick code
| changes though via Virtual Desktop. It is definitely cool, and I
| could see it becoming a "thing" some day. But currently I have to
| say that the comfort and resolution is not quite there yet.
| chiflando wrote:
| Not too much on the usability, but here is a Common Lisp REPL in
| VR:
|
| https://invidious.dhusch.de/watch?v=eMsMm_q-akI
| ajolly wrote:
| It's not quite as nice as a full desktop setup, but you can get
| portable 4K monitors in the 12 to 17 inch range.
|
| Also you can build some small but high powered machines. I've got
| a mini ATX build with a 12900 ks, and a 3090. Fits in a carry-on,
| way faster than any laptop.
|
| Also if you're spending that long in each location, it might be
| viable to just buy monitors at your location, especially if you
| think of it as the cost for enhanced productivity.
|
| I'm in a similar situation so I've tried to build as capable of
| the travel setup as possible.
|
| You can also throw desktop monitors in a checked bag, I'm usually
| only bringing one, but you can fit two to three.
|
| It really depends on how frequently you travel, if you're going
| to the same locations, if you can store stuff there, and how much
| additional cost are you willing to pay for a better set up.
|
| The luggage shipping services out there can be fairly reasonable,
| if you don't want to lug that much gear back and forth with you.
| Do you have a home base that you go back to, or are you jumping
| between locations? I used to be fully nomadic, I spent a lot of
| time optimizing.
| janoc wrote:
| 12 to 17" 4k monitor is completely pointless.
|
| At those sizes a normal FullHD or 1920x1200 panel will do you
| the same service - and cost much less and require much less
| powerful GPU to drive (battery of your laptop will thank you!)
| ge96 wrote:
| Depends on software, was messing around with SimulaVR. It's cool
| though needs work. I was using the Index it could be better on
| resolution/text focusing.
|
| I would not use it for productivity because it's a new
| environment/more distracting than useful. Also turning your head
| a lot to look at things.
|
| I like my curved ultra wide monitor.
|
| When the physical SimulaOne comes out I'll try it out again that
| one is not tethered/better quality eye display.
| georgewsinger wrote:
| Thanks for your support.
|
| RE resolution being low on the Valve Index: we absolutely agree
| :] The Simula One offers ~3x higher pixel density than the
| Valve Index, and 50% higher density than the Quest Pro. This
| dramatically impacts the extent to which you have to turn your
| head to look at things.
| jedberg wrote:
| You can comfortably work in VR, but the trick is that you can't
| use any of the headsets as is.
|
| There are upgrades that you really need: A better head strap,
| ideally one with an adjustment knob at the back to easily loosen
| and tighten the headset. Also one with an extra battery that both
| gives you longer unplugged time but more importantly balances the
| headset front to back.
|
| And a better headset/face interface. You can get one that is much
| softer and thicker, which puts less pressure on the face and
| moves the screens a few extra mm away. They also have vented
| interfaces, which help cut down on the problem of getting hot
| face.
|
| And lastly, you know how all the experts advise that when you're
| working you stop and take a break to look away from your screens
| every 20 minutes or so? It's more important in VR to heed that
| advice. All you have to do is slip off the headset (you got the
| easy to adjust one that just slides right off, right?), take ten
| seconds to look at something far away our out the window, and
| then put it back on and keep working.
|
| If you do all that, there are a lot of great products out that
| that will give you great virtual monitors and keyboards.
| ilaksh wrote:
| This is outdated since the Quest Pro came out.
| jedberg wrote:
| How so?
| chaostheory wrote:
| It addresses nearly all concerns for comfort without the
| need for 3rd party accessories. Even glasses fit well. The
| catch is that you can't seem to change anything out for 3rd
| party options
|
| On the other hand, im not sure resolution is high enough
| for text heavy work
| owlysian wrote:
| > A better head strap, ideally one with an adjustment knob at
| the back to easily loosen and tighten the headset. Also one
| with an extra battery that both gives you longer unplugged time
| but more importantly balances the headset front to back.
|
| You're pretty much describing the Quest Pro. This part also
| matches the Quest 2 with Elite Battery Strap for what it's
| worth, but the Quest Pro also matches your next criteria,
| whereas the Quest 2 didn't.
|
| > And a better headset/face interface. You can get one that is
| much softer and thicker, which puts less pressure on the face
| and moves the screens a few extra mm away. They also have
| vented interfaces, which help cut down on the problem of
| getting hot face.
|
| The Quest Pro only attaches at the top on the forehead, is open
| air by default and further away from the face, and for example
| I can comfortably fit it over my glasses, which I couldn't do
| on the Quest 2.
|
| It's a huge step up in comfort for long sessions, although
| you'd still want to attach a USB-C power cable for anything
| beyond a couple of hours.
|
| Disclaimer: I work at Meta but not on anything VR related, this
| is based on my own experience as a personal user of VR
| headsets.
| janoc wrote:
| That's all fine and groovy - as long as your work doesn't
| involve any text or anything requiring high resolution/fine
| details.
|
| Then unless you spend $$$ for very high end hardware with high
| resolution (4k on a headset != 4k on a monitor!) you will not
| be able to work efficiently.
|
| There are also many problems with the applications and
| usability of the entire stack when it comes to doing actually
| productive work.
| rock_hard wrote:
| I started to use my Quest Pro with my MacBook when I am on the
| go and it's pretty awesome if the alternative is a laptop
| screen!
|
| But it's also not yet perfect
|
| I haven't tried it in wired mode but wireless has a bit of
| latency (which is fine for coding and other productivity stuff
| but not workable for games for example)
|
| It's really nice that it's easy to switch between pass through
| to see your environment and VR mode to be able to focus and not
| get distracted
|
| It's early but def where things are headed if you ask me!
|
| At home I have a 8k screen which is hard to beat...but just a
| matter of time until VR can match that resolution IMO
| epaulson wrote:
| Can you share a pointer to setup information for this? I
| bought a Meta Quest Pro a little while ago (my first VR
| headset) and really have no idea what I'm doing with it yet.
| sneak wrote:
| Can you recommend one of these great products that won't
| transmit my activity and usage off my device? Fortunately
| monitor manufacturers haven't figured out that trick yet and I
| don't want a privacy regression from my non-virtual monitor
| setup.
|
| Everything I have found in VR land assumes internet
| connectivity, demands a login/PII, and transmits data back to
| the mothership against my will.
| chaostheory wrote:
| It's not a dumb monitor. Even the new Apple headset will
| require internet connectivity and an online account. Also
| from what I've seen, most VR headsets have an option for not
| sharing your usage analytics. It's not shared by default.
| ilaksh wrote:
| Quest Pro addresses all issues you mentioned.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| I agree with all of this. I would add that there is a Quest 2
| accessory that is a small exhaust fan that makes a huge comfort
| improvement as well. With a better strap, battery
| counterbalance, and fan, I've finally been able to use the
| Quest 2 for genuine productivity. Meetings without the wall of
| faces staring at you like Zoom are quite a bit more pleasant.
|
| I still don't think the systems are 'there', yet. But I feel
| that I can finally see the way forward to real success.
|
| [edit] I have the older version of this Bobovr fan:
|
| https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B09Y58GC34/
| PicassoCTs wrote:
| If you are working stationary, you might as well neutralize the
| weight with industrial pulleys, as they are used with robot
| cable packages and other situations were too much weight is in
| equipment for the work required.
| clolege wrote:
| It looks like they put extra effort into making the Meta Quest
| Pro comfortable. Do you think those straps would need
| replacing? If so, do such straps already exist?
| jedberg wrote:
| From the pictures is does look like they integrated some of
| the most common upgrades, but I haven't seen one in person
| yet, so I can't say for sure.
|
| But I can see they sell an upgraded facial interface that is
| billed as "full light blocking", which usually means thicker
| and softer, so they probably at least have that accessory. I
| doubt any other accessories exist yet, since it's too new and
| not a big enough market.
| IceWreck wrote:
| I have used both and I can say that the Quest Pro is so
| much more comfortable than the Quest 2.
| modeless wrote:
| By default the Quest Pro has no facial interface at all. It
| doesn't touch your face below the forehead.
| chaostheory wrote:
| According to reviewers, it is comfortable, but you can't
| change any of it
| greggman3 wrote:
| > There are upgrades that you really need: A better head strap,
| ideally one with an adjustment knob at the back to easily
| loosen and tighten the headset. Also one with an extra battery
| that both gives you longer unplugged time but more importantly
| balances the headset front to back.
|
| IMO, until VR gets the size and weight of safety goggles you
| need the device to rest on your forehead. The PSVR is still the
| single most comformtable VR system that's shipped because there
| is no pressure on your face whatsoever.
|
| Apparently you can get these for Quest 2. Here's one. Don't own
| a Quest 2 though so I haven't tried it
|
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B599S56K
|
| I go have a Rift S. It tried to copy PSVR but failed to make it
| as good. You have really crank the back of the head strap below
| the ridge of the back of your head to get the HMD to rest on
| your forehead and not your face, and then it slowly slides and
| it's back to resting on your face.
|
| Let me also add, if the thing requires a strap that goes over
| the top of your head then it's a fail!
| moron4hire wrote:
| I have that strap for my Quest 2. It's very good. Better than
| the 1st party battery-pack strap.
|
| This configuration is called a "halo" strap.
|
| I also have the Quest Pro now. It comes with a halo strap.
| Nothing touches your cheeks. Resolution is also very high,
| and the new pancake lenses are very clear.
|
| That's another problem with older headsets. The Fresnel
| lenses in previous systems cause "god rays" around any bright
| objects on dark backgrounds. Like, say, light text on a dark
| background for a dark-mode UI.
|
| Pancake lenses don't have that problem. They also have a much
| larger sweet spot, so you don't have to get the headset
| perfectly adjusted every time, and you can look around with
| just your eyes, not moving your head, more.
|
| I think the Vive Flow was the first commercially available
| headset to use the pancake lenses, but the Flow is otherwise
| not a great experience. The Quest Pro is really impressive.
| fiat_fandango wrote:
| I would rather become a brick mason or plumber before I have to
| work with a VR headset on.
|
| Zero doubts.
|
| If this becomes any kind of norm for tech work I'm throwing my
| computer out the window.
| abruzzi wrote:
| not a plumber--some contortions are sometimes involved to get
| into tight spaces (not as bad as my brother who is an auto
| mechanic when he has to get under the dash.) But I have put my
| name in for the position that drives the lawn mower for my wind
| down at the end of my career.
| cjbprime wrote:
| Have you ever used VR and tried to read small text? Feels like
| we're still far from from minimum viable resolution for that to
| me.
| georgewsinger wrote:
| This is why VR pixel density (PPD) is so important for VR
| computing. It's the #1 thing that impacts how legible text and
| other fine details are when working. Here's a list of headsets
| for comparison:
|
| - Valve Index: 11.07 PPD
|
| - Quest II: 20.58 PPD
|
| - Quest Pro: 22.6 PPD
|
| (In full disclaimer I'm affiliated with SimulaVR, and we're
| working on a headset with 35.5 PPD.)
| williamcotton wrote:
| What's the PPD equivalent for a recent MacBook Pro at a
| distance of "sitting on your lap"?
| jayd16 wrote:
| You won't get virtual retina displays with currently affordable
| hardware but something that feels similar to a large 1080p
| display is achievable today. The plus side is you get as many
| as you want.
| throwaway413 wrote:
| I question if any of these other commenters have actually tried
| the Quest Pro yet and specifically with 1) Horizon Workrooms and
| 2) a mac and 3) a supported tracked keyboard from apple or
| Logitech.
|
| I was a complete Meta disbeliever and long time Quest owner,
| having put a few dozen hours into working in Immersed last year
| before putting it down and accepting it wasn't good enough.
|
| Fast forward to last weekend, give it a try with the setup
| described above instead. Proceeded to do a 9hr shift fully in VR.
| Went out, got the Pro, and now I am all in. We are there. Give it
| a shot, you can always return it right?
|
| Also +1 to everything jedberg said in their comment, great
| advice.
| pnw wrote:
| I have used pretty much every VR and AR headset there is, and
| have many hundreds of hours in them dating back to the Oculus
| DK1. Even the Index and the new Quest Pro lack the resolution
| needed for extended work with text on virtual screens, not to
| mention that the weight and heat of the headset become
| increasingly uncomfortable after a few hours. I also suspect that
| extended use of a headset wasn't good for the health of my eyes.
| Certainly if you wear glasses it would be pretty uncomfortable,
| but I generally felt a lot more eyestrain in VR than I would
| after extended use of a monitor.
|
| I think we are still quite a few years away from VR being a slam
| dunk for a virtual workstation, and it's going to require
| continued investments in optics, material science and display
| technology. There's a reason Meta is spending billions on this,
| it's an exceptionally difficult problem.
| rspoerri wrote:
| I use an oculus quest 2 with the battery headstrap to play online
| shooters when the beamer is used by my gf. It works surprisingly
| well with vrdesktop. I still prefer playing on the beamer, but
| without the space i would consider it a quite good solution.
| ajolly wrote:
| What is a beamer?
| the_sleaze_ wrote:
| It's a projector, I assume he means his girlfriend is using
| the huge screen so he uses the quest as the backup "huge"
| screen.
| IceWreck wrote:
| With the quest 2, no. With the pro, I'm inclined to say yes. I
| have the Q2 at home but I've only used the Quest pro for about an
| hour.
| clolege wrote:
| > I am comfortable with at least two 27" monitors.
|
| I embraced a single-monitor workflow early in my career after
| experimenting and finding that having multiple monitors often
| makes me less productive than just switching workspaces with
| [?]+tab. Now it's extended to a single-laptop workflow that's
| given me incredible flexibility to travel and move around the
| office.
|
| When do people really need multiple monitors? My only guesses are
| if they're using Windows, or have a really short feedback loop
| workflow between two apps that are too big/awkward to share a
| screen? Which, I guess OP could be in both boats.
| penetrarthur wrote:
| When I traveled I would sometimes bring just one monitor and it
| was unbearable. I need to see the result of my work, logs and
| code at once to debug the code comfortably. Even more so when
| I'm tired.
| ilaksh wrote:
| They don't really need them, it's just that many people can't
| tell the difference between "prefer" or "need". It may be
| advantageous but not necessary.
| mcbishop wrote:
| Multiple workspaces on one monitor works great for me too (on
| Windows). Swiping the trackpad to move between them... works
| great.
| zwayhowder wrote:
| The 4% of us with Aphantasia can't do that at all. I need all
| the relevant windows open and readable for me to work.
|
| I tried VR but found the resolution lacking.
| madmod wrote:
| Thank you for this comment! I never made the connection
| between my Aphantasia and my seven monitor setup!
| arwineap wrote:
| It's nice that it works for you, some people work differently.
|
| For me a laptop screen is simply not usable for more than 2
| windows, and sometimes I would like to reference 3-4 windows.
| Sometimes even 2 is too much on the laptop screens.
|
| Alt tab doesn't work because now one window is partially hidden
| behind the other.
|
| I've also experimented extensively with tiling, which doesn't
| really help my issue at all, I simply need two monitors to be
| as productive as I can be.
| D13Fd wrote:
| Totally agree. If you have a reasonable window snapping feature
| via an app or the OS, one large monitor works best IMO. I like
| having the two windows right next to each other without two
| bezels in between. I also like the flexibility of positioning
| things anywhere.
| colinmhayes wrote:
| I like being able to read both screens at the same time. I can
| type on one while reading off the other.
| clolege wrote:
| I've only ever found this to be effective when I'm typing
| what I'm reading verbatim.
|
| Are you able to type something other than you're reading? How
| do you scroll?
| jonasdegendt wrote:
| Alt/Super-tab + page down if I had to guess. I work on a
| single high resolution monitor and have a similar workflow,
| that's how I do it.
| CharlesW wrote:
| FWIW, one can also do this comfortably with a single HiDPI
| display.
| throwaway_forev wrote:
| In webdev using a framework with HMR having VS Code on one
| screen and the browser on another is a lot more productive than
| having to Alt/[?]+tab to see changes.
|
| There are many more similar use cases.
| ar_lan wrote:
| I've found an ultrawide, 32" monitor addresses this just as
| well.
| zmmmmm wrote:
| some of it definitely relates to window management features
| and their limitations
| wazzaps wrote:
| It's nice to have 3+ source files + documentation open at once
| almog wrote:
| > When do people really need multiple monitors? My only guesses
| are if they're using Windows, or have a really short feedback
| loop workflow between two apps that are too big/awkward to
| share a screen? Which, I guess OP could be in both boats.
|
| IMO, assuming OP is using this setup for software development,
| it has to be a very specific short feedback loop to really
| justify 2 monitors, something that can't easily tested as part
| of a test suite such as layout testing which might require
| specific resolution and thus either constant switching or two
| monitors. I can't think of many other situation, even in web
| development, when one cannot make a good use window managers
| and testing components in isolation to avoid constant
| switching.
|
| Despite having used 2 monitors in the past on occasion, I found
| that I've only used it to compensate for not taking the time to
| perfect my workflow or test-suite in such way that would allow
| me to be productive.
|
| The only real use case where I can now personally justify the
| usage of two monitors is for in-person pair-programming:
| mirroring the display allows both participants to position
| themselves in front of the monitor rather than at an odd angle
| which over time strains both necks and eyes. Yet both can sit
| close enough to allow effective face-to-face communication.
| zmmmmm wrote:
| I agree for a lot of activities multiple monitors doesn't help
| that much, but there are _some_. The most obvious is web dev.
| Whenever I get into heavy front end work I end up wanting 3
| displays: (a) IDE /primary editor (b) actual browser UI and (c)
| the browser dev console. These all need to be on screen at once
| because of how iterative and feedback driven the process is
| ("nudge the button 2 pixels to the left, no 3, no 2, now click
| to invoke the dropdown, why is the padding wrong" etc).
| dpkirchner wrote:
| I recently switched from multiple displays to a single
| ultrawide screen (21:9). It's great for work -- wide enough to
| have a decent sized IDE in the center and two 120 column
| terminals on either side. I don't think I would go back to two
| monitors.
| dopidopHN wrote:
| I'm getting there, but I stil need to share a actual screen
| in my workflow, and keep a screen private. I want to pass
| windows around without registering them and the laptop screen
| is too small.
|
| But really I get the sentiment. A well organized high
| resolution single screen can be sufficient
| shinycode wrote:
| I used a single monitor for a very long time with virtual
| spaces and windows switching. Over the years I found that
| having some windows displayed all the time in dedicated
| displays makes me more productive because I don't have to
| switch all the time and transfer windows from a space to an
| other to share my screen. Everything is right under my eyes all
| the time and the more surface I have the easier it is to
| partition display with magnet app and the like. Two 32" 4K
| creates a real confortable workspace. Slack, Gather, VSCode,
| Datagrip, Figma, Terminals, Fork, Postman, multiple Chrome
| windows with search, hot reload, documentation, the sprint etc
| ... All this in a constant switching on a single screen proved
| to be a real pain over the years. I switch less with more real
| estate and partitioning.
| filoleg wrote:
| I recently switched from a 4k monitor+one/two 1080p monitors to
| a single monitor, and I prefer it now as well, but with one big
| caveat - it is a single 5k ultrawide monitor with thunderbolt
| 4. I simply connect my macbook to it using one cable, and I am
| done. That one cable provides power/charge to the laptop,
| outputs stuff on my big screen, and allows my laptop to use any
| devices connected to the USB hub built into the monitor. Zero
| fiddling around or setup required (aside from the physical
| space), and no bajillion cables requiring me to worry about
| managing them (as long as I want to keep my workspace neat and
| clean, which I do).
|
| Even doing a single regular 4k monitor was stretching it for
| me, but my current setup satisfies me almost perfectly. The
| only upgrade I am planning to do in that aspect in the future
| is replacing it with an AR/VR headset that can emulate screens
| at a good enough resolution. While the current VR/AR tech isn't
| there yet, it is getting closer and closer, which gives me a
| lot of hope. I tried Quest 2 for that purpose, and I would pick
| it over a dual 1080p monitor setup even now. Sadly, it isn't
| quite as good as a single 5k ultrawide at the moment. There are
| other (very solvable) rought points with it currently too, like
| comfort (Quest 2 gets a bit tiring and sweaty to use after a
| couple of hours), but I heard Quest Pro has addressed that
| specific one, which is also awesome to see.
|
| Given the leaps I've observed over the past few years, I feel
| like people are realizing the immense value of it, and the
| companies realize it too. So I am expecting something like this
| to be a fully viable solution for me within the next 5 years.
| And that's not even going into the portability aspect. As
| someone working from a hotel for the past 2 weeks, it would be
| amazing to have an AR/VR headset that would allow me to have
| the same setup everywhere, because I am not going to lug my 5k
| ultrawide with me wherever I need to work. Which is also why I
| prefer to work from home rather than the office, because my
| current home setup is much more optimal for my productivity
| that my office one.
| johanvts wrote:
| Windows has "alt+tab"?
| clolege wrote:
| Are multiple desktops well supported on Windows now? It's
| been a while since I've explored it.
| johanvts wrote:
| Yes it works fine, but I rarely use it though I also use
| just a single monitor.
| penetrarthur wrote:
| Yeah, they are great! I usually have like three virtual
| desktops with two monitors, so it's 6 screens. Switching
| between them is also much better than it used to be couple
| of years ago.
| gotrythis wrote:
| I like it.
|
| I setup a login just for working in VR. I get MUCH more done as
| I'm totally distraction-free, and it's much better for my neck,
| as I'm looking at the screens in front of me, instead of down at
| my laptop. Looking down at my laptop for years has become a
| source of chronic pain, and working in VR removes it.
|
| Setup is a Macbook Air M1, Quest 2, elite strap, and over-the ear
| headphones. I use Immersed, which is free, and put up a big
| screen in the middle to work on, with two narrow screens on
| either side for reference material.
| thunky wrote:
| > Looking down at my laptop for years has become a source of
| chronic pain
|
| Why not use an external monitor at eye level?
|
| Or elevate the laptop and use an external keyboard.
| mdp2021 wrote:
| I use the Epson Moverio (1280x720 stereo):
|
| comfortable reading is around the dozen lines of text.
|
| Surely this tells you that you would go in the opposite direction
| of the desired one. They are excellent for other applications -
| as a memex-while-moving, for example. They do not replace a
| station.
| tomxor wrote:
| It's not ready.
|
| It doesn't really matter which headset you use or what specs they
| have, they are all way to heavy and uncomfortable to use for
| work. And I say that as someone who enjoys gaming on them quite a
| lot.
|
| John Carmack mentioned the concept of VR for work specifically in
| his latest presentation on the pro2... something he's clearly
| interested in and believes will eventually happen but in his
| words were something along the lines of "this is going to need a
| lot of painful dogfooding before it's useful". Once they are down
| to the weight of some very chunky sunglasses - then we can start
| to be a bit more serious about it. It will happen, in the not too
| distant future, but if you force it right now I believe you will
| be in for a lot of discomfort and ultimately bail.
| canuckintime wrote:
| Don't only consider VR headsets; also check out AR glasses. The
| newest generation of AR glasses are surprisingly practical as
| portable displays e.g. Nreal Air.[1] However neither VR headsets
| nor AR glasses have reached the resolution sweet spot to compete
| with monitors in permanent workspaces
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDekX4vrSsA
| chaostheory wrote:
| The HP G2 is much better than any AR product for reading text.
| It comes close to desktop monitors. It's also under $300 on
| eBay and frequently on sale
| carl_dr wrote:
| That's interesting. As a HP G2 owner, it really doesn't come
| close to reading text on a desktop monitor for me.
|
| The combination of FoV and the resolution really isn't there,
| I struggle reading text through it vs a 27" 1440p desktop
| monitor I have on the same PC. I really couldn't imagine
| reading text for any length of time in VR.
|
| (Edit: I just realised you were comparing to AR, not desktop,
| sorry.)
| georgewsinger wrote:
| The Nreal Air looks cool, but it only offers a 46 degree
| FoV[1]. That's less than half the FOV of the Quest 2, which
| makes it hard to see all of your windows/workspace. (To be
| fair: the tradeoff is excellent PPD within its narrow FOV).
|
| [1] https://www.nreal.ai/specs/
| anotherjesse wrote:
| (I'm trying a pair out. They are on Amazon for $379 and
| extended returns during Christmas...)
|
| It feels like a wall height screen about 8-10 feet in front
| of you. Perhaps a little bigger would be good, but it isn't
| that too small.
|
| The resolution of 1920x1080 is ok. I wish it was higher. And
| it doesn't support AR monitors (the 1920x1080 in the glasses
| a mirror of the iPad - except for blink .. - the demos for
| android are much nicer with AR windows places in physical
| space)
|
| The setup I'm testing: - nreal 1920x1080
| nreal air - usb-c plugged into an ipad mini + cellular
| - tailscale allows me to remote into my desktop computer
| - with bluetooth keyboard and mouse - and then blink
| app to tmux (or perhaps vscode - I haven't tried it yet)
|
| I've only been testing a couple days.
|
| It feels much better than my experiments with Quest2 VR
| desktop. And when I am able to just work within a single app
| (blink, safari, ...) it is a good experience. My biggest
| struggle is iPad os - inconsistent keyboard shortcuts even in
| apple applications.
|
| I'd like to try a tiny raspberry pi like device that allows
| remote-ssh vscode + remote tmux + streaming chrome (vnc or
| perhaps https://www.mightyapp.com) - but the hardware needs
| to support USB-C Display Port.
|
| Perhaps a DIY powered by Framework mainboard... https://twitt
| er.com/FrameworkPuter/status/156912081380642406...
|
| Overall, it is still promising and I'm going to keep trying
| until end of January - to see if this is a good to take
| anywhere to code/dev/mosh. For a V1 of this experience it
| exceeds expectations (and is much better than quest2 for me)
| coder543 wrote:
| > it doesn't support AR monitors
|
| At the top of this thread, the youtube video linked by that
| comment shows AR monitors on a Mac at 7:24 in the video.
| The software support for that isn't there on iOS or iPadOS,
| but it is supported on Mac, apparently. (And Android, as
| you noted.)
| anotherjesse wrote:
| the Macos software is pre-release - and jittery/high
| latency is an understatement.
|
| Supposedly a new version is being released mid-nov.
| Hopefully that will address the issues.
| clnq wrote:
| > Does anyone have any useful experience to share on working in a
| VR headset? Is it comfortable for longer periods of time? How is
| it on the eyes?
|
| I bought the entry level Quest 2 to evaluate the feasibility of
| this about a year ago. These are some of my insights (that might
| not apply 100% to Quest Pro):
|
| - The resolution was too poor to comfortably read anything on two
| displays arranged about the same way as two horizontal 27"
| monitors side by side. This ultimately killed the whole effort.
|
| - Without good passthrough, using a keyboard and mouse is a bit
| difficult.
|
| - There is finger tracking, but I found the controllers to be
| more accurate. So I needed to keep the controllers on my desk.
|
| - There is a bit of motion sickness that either goes away after a
| few days of use or reduces a bit. For me, I could never get over
| the motion sickness. But it wasn't very bad after a couple days
| of use.
|
| - The screen door effect was very noticeable for me on Quest 2.
|
| - It was possible to up the resolution and refresh rate of Quest
| 2 using developer options on the PC with some third-party
| software. With that, the headset might become uncomfortably warm
| to wear.
|
| - The WiFi 6 wireless VR was surprisingly much better than
| expected. But it will definitely not be a good experience with
| typical hotel Wifi - not even close.
|
| I was pretty happy to spend about PS300 on a Quest 2 to try it
| for work. I then sold it for about PS250. PS50 to try this work
| mode for a few weeks was worth it. I chose not to go with VR for
| work at the time. I would suggest trying it yourself in some way
| similar to this. Perhaps not buying it but borrowing someone's VR
| headset for a bit, or going to one of the VR venues and just
| seeing how comfortable it is and what kind of resolution you
| might get?
| chaostheory wrote:
| I had mostly the same experience, but I bought a Logitech k830
| and it shows up in meta headsets
|
| https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/k830-illum...
|
| I didn't notice the screen door effect on Quest 2, only the low
| resolution for reading text
| boyband6666 wrote:
| This is pretty much my experience. Based on the 'working from
| orbit' article I bought a Quest 2, but just couldn't find a way
| of working. I have a 1920x1200 in the centre now, and to each
| side a 19" 1600x1200 (same pixel density, vertical height,
| gives a level of wraparoudn with 3 monitors).
|
| The main thing was I couldn't make the virtual screen be as
| good as the physical ones, and being able to see to type - I'm
| not at the complete touch type level - especially without
| reference points.
|
| The difference is I haven't sold mine, it is still here to try
| some VR gaming, which I also haven't got roudn to get.
|
| My summary is I was impressed with what the technology can do,
| but it's not a replacement if you have a well set up desk.
| mellosouls wrote:
| Some previous discussions:
|
| "I Spent Hundreds of Hours Working in VR"
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29978036
|
| and
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28678041
|
| The latter discussing this classic "Working from Orbit" article
| (below) has been linked before, but it's from a clear fan, which
| is not necessarily representative. But it demonstrates it works
| for some - and that's with the Quest 2.
|
| https://medium.com/immersedteam/working-from-orbit-39bf95a6d...
|
| I haven't tried it myself extensively, but personally I think the
| tech and software is not quite there yet for full comfort and
| practicality (eg text legibility) - at least on a plug-and-play
| level - for the average interested user.
| malux85 wrote:
| Physically it doesn't work:
|
| The headset is too clunky and heavy still, after a few hours you
| get a sore neck and I have trouble with lack of airflow on my
| skin (where it contacts my face gets sweaty and irritated after
| long periods)
|
| More importantly: the resolution is too small. Using an IDE to
| edit text inside VR technically works, but the font size has to
| be so huge because the resolution inside is so poor, coding
| becomes an exercise in scrolling and navigation rather than an
| exercise in problem solving.
|
| I'm the same as you, I like being portable, and when I was a
| travelling tech nomad for 2 years it meant hauling two monitors
| in the car everywhere.
|
| One other option that actually worked well was getting a good
| quality 1080p projector and mounting it on a camera stand, I used
| this for a bit instead of monitors at the hotels/Airbnbs and it
| worked well, although that's just a single 1080p monitor
| ilaksh wrote:
| Do you realize that there are many different headsets, some
| very new, different resolutions and different types of lenses?
| Because you seem to have taken one experience and written off
| the entire concept indefinitely.
| AndrewOMartin wrote:
| I'm currently visiting family abroad and working remotely. I
| bought my work machine (A Mac M1) and a quest 2 with me. So far
| I've done one week of 9 hour days and on one of those days I used
| Immersed VR until I got a battery warning.
|
| The experience was flawed but many things worked surprisingly
| well. I was getting fed up with just having one screen and having
| four low-resolution screens was really useful for some things. I
| could have slack on one screen, VSCode in the centre, my calendar
| or documentation on the left and my personal recreational browser
| and music Windows on my right (I eventually moved this to the top
| because otherwise it was covering the corridor where family
| members walked past and I preferred to see them using pass-
| through than being completely oblivious to the outside world).
|
| Is it a very small screen for an IDE and is text blurry? Yes
| both. But text right in front of your head is quite clear. You
| have to scan your head to read lots, but most of the time a
| suggestion of the surrounding text is enough to get by. You also
| have to change your idea of "sharp text" it's better to use
| something like cool-retro-term or zoomed in browser to get text
| that's knowingly large and fuzzy.
|
| I wear glasses but have VROptician lenses and a Bobovr headstrap.
| The batteries would have died before I became uncomfortable.
|
| The most important observation is that I didn't jump back in to
| VR once the batteries were charged or the next morning, but I'm
| glad to have a multi monitor option that fits in my cabin
| luggage, and cost a free hundred pounds, for when I'm doing a
| task that would be a total pain on one monitor.
| OJFord wrote:
| However good the software gets at providing a desktop / working
| environment, I simply couldn't handle shutting myself off like
| that, just wouldn't find it comfortable.
|
| Unless you somehow know that wouldn't bother you, I'd recommend
| trying it first (or sufficiently within return window) before
| getting too set on the idea.
| kypro wrote:
| The Quest Pro has full colour pass-through mode I believe. So
| it shouldn't feel so much like shutting yourself off as it does
| with other VR headsets. Plus, they're not fully enclosed so you
| still have peripheral vision.
|
| Would be awkward using them in public though...
| georgewsinger wrote:
| The Simula One (https://simulavr.com) was designed specifically
| for this use case (disclaimer: I'm a cofounder of the project).
| TLDR: it's a 100% office dedicated headset with bleeding edge
| pixel density that runs Linux Desktop natively. Everything from
| the hardware to the software rendering is optimized for VR
| Desktop and the clear display of text. We really pushed hard to
| make the Simula One specs as premium/bleeding edge as humanly
| possible. For example, our headset has more than 50% higher pixel
| density than the Quest Pro (35.5 PPD vs. 22.69 PPD), and our
| compute specs are comparable to a premium office laptop (Intel
| 12th Gen i7-1265U Processor, up to 32GB of RAM, and 1TB of
| storage).
|
| For more discussion, here's a list of HN threads on the Simula
| One: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=simulavr.com. The most recent one
| discusses a comparison between the Simula One and the Quest Pro
| (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33318956).
|
| Pros of the Simula One: it offers native VR computing (i.e. you
| put on the headset, turn it on, and get see an uncapped number of
| your Linux Desktop apps running in front of you). Compare this to
| the Questo Pro, which for VR Desktop provides WiFi streamed
| screens from your laptop (placing latency and bandwidth
| constraints on what you can do, and capping the number of screens
| you can use to 5).
|
| Cons of the Simula One: it's still in preorder phase, and has a
| target ship date of ~Q2 2023. Our small scale makes the cost of
| the headset pretty high (though to be fair we're putting very
| premium specs into it).
| chrisfrantz wrote:
| I tried with the Quest Pro. It's cool to see the giant screens
| and set things up, but the pixel density and resolution is really
| not there yet. It's like working off of a 65 inch 480p TV.
| aljungberg wrote:
| I have tried it. Working in VR is much better than I expected it
| would be, with the right equipment. Still, I quit after a while
| mainly because of the quality of text rendering. It is so much
| better than it used to be, but still not good enough, at least
| not for me.
|
| I also found it surprisingly frustrating that I couldn't see the
| keyboard. Every time I took my hands off it I had to do this
| blind search for it and get my fingers back to the right starting
| position. Symbols I don't know how to touch type because they are
| rarely used was also more frustrating than I would have thought.
| clolege wrote:
| What headset did you try? I imagine that text rendering would
| improve with the quality of the screens, which have been
| getting better.
| aljungberg wrote:
| I used the Quest 2. It wasn't just the hardware though,
| something about the software too. The "main" display was a
| reasonably sharp and almost retina like. But the other
| displays were unable to keep up with that level of quality.
| Not enough bandwidth? Video encoding or decoding CPU bound?
| Not sure what it was. This was using Immersed
| desting wrote:
| It's a horrible experience. The weight of the headset, the
| vertigo, the motion sickness.
|
| Personally, I am waiting for eyeball implants.
|
| I heard that Elon Musk is working on something like this, so I
| might give that a go when it's ready. I look forward to paying
| hundreds of dollars to restore my vision every time he has a
| tantrum and shuts off the service on a whim.
| jayd16 wrote:
| With the Quest Pro I could actually see the feasibility. Just
| good enough to code in comfortably.
|
| The color passthrough means you can actually have coffee at your
| desk among a million small things it adds.
| fariszr wrote:
| According to Linus, the Text is still not clear enough
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT1sps72_sE
| jayd16 wrote:
| I'm sure it varies from person to person but its only going
| to get better.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Could you quote where he says that? I watched this the other
| day and I recall him saying that text was very crisp with a
| hint of color on the edges. He said the previous gen was not
| up to snuff.
| georgewsinger wrote:
| The Quest Pro is a great headset in many ways, but it only
| offers 10% higher pixel density than the Quest 2 (which was
| already pretty low).
|
| For comparison: it offers 22.69 PPD. The human eye can
| distinguish up to 60 PPD.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT1sps72_sE&t=11m40s
|
| He basically gushes about clarity.
|
| Op: "According to Linus, the Text is still not clear
| enough"
| zmmmmm wrote:
| Just a warning that I can see all kinds of people relating very
| personal takes on it, esp based on last-gen hardware like the
| Quest 2.
|
| The key thing is that effectively, there has never really been a
| VR device released with this as its primary purpose until the
| Quest Pro. So all the complaints of clunky software, lack of
| comfort, visual clarity, etc are all in part side effects of
| people repurposing tools that were simply not meant for the job.
|
| I've always been interested in this space and my conclusion with
| Quest Pro, which I've had for a week or so now, is that its
| borderline usable for specific tasks. However it's still not
| _quite_ there for me as a primary working mode. I think about 50%
| of the issues are software addressable and it will be a big test
| of Meta to see if they managed to actually address them or not.
|
| The main issues for me are display resolution and refresh rate I
| think. When looking at black text on white background, it still
| has a "shimmering" type effect. It's very subtle and not
| something obvious at first but if I try to work hours in there
| (like I did yesterday), it eventually affects me. This seems
| addressable to me but I'm not 100% sure if the approach being
| taken (compressing the video feed) can solve it completely - we
| really need something more like RDP where it draws windowing
| primitives natively in the headset so that there's no "refresh"
| at all. The resolution would be "ok" if everything else was
| perfect but literally any other problem makes it an issue.
|
| However, my biggest suggestion here is that this is _very
| personal_ - both to your own visual / perceptive / comfort
| context AND what you exactly do. Even within a specific
| application, "how" you do it matters. Which is all to say, you
| just need to try this out. I'd guess that prior to Quest Pro
| something like 5% of people would have found working in VR
| viable. Quest Pro probably brings it to 20% or so - a huge
| improvement but nothing like mainstream. The next gen should
| bring that way up to 50% or so I think - and we'll have line of
| sight on this, if not actual devices within 6 months - rumors are
| there will be an announcement from Apple in Jan/Feb (but likely
| not shipping until June) and then Simula is working hard on their
| device. If you are in the Apple ecosystem it'd be pretty crazy
| not to wait until their announcement (I deplore the closed
| ecosystem that is going to result from this but there's no chance
| it won't be awesome).
|
| Finally, you'd definitely want to consider the light weight
| options like Nreal Air [0] if truly all you want is a giant
| floating monitor or two.
|
| [0] https://www.nreal.ai/air/
| usrbinbash wrote:
| VR Headset? Hard nope for me.
|
| Lightweight AR headset? I would definitely give this a try.
|
| To specify what I am talking about: If the device is much
| bigger|bulkier|heavier than thick eyeglasses, I won't use it. If
| the device relies on controllers (aka. something I have to hold),
| I won't use it (gloves would be okay as long as they don't
| prevent me from typing or using a pen and paper).
| sacrosancty wrote:
| grogenaut wrote:
| I have a vive and a quest 2 and I tried working like that when
| travelling. The quest won't work in a car as it uses gyros.
|
| I tried for about 18 hours each device to work in VR. Many things
| are not there yet. My vive is attached to a 5 monitor dual GPU
| beast that drives a central 144hz 4k HDR 43" and 5 2560x144
| monitors. The vive couldn't touch the physical setup for comfort
| or resolution or just non-fussiness. I constantly had to adjust
| virtual monitors. In real world I just scootch a quarter inch on
| my rolly cHair. It's like the first time you setup a physical
| workspace every time you use it for me. Vive gets warm.
|
| The quest 2 is too low resolution and too laggy. Battery too
| weak. It was a joy to take it off. Quest is more sweaty.
|
| With the quest I worked from a RV for 3 days. It sucked.
|
| What worked better was just 2 pelican cases with monitors and a
| discounted ups rate. In the RV I just shoved them in the corner
| and pulled them out when we parked. When I visit my mom or airbnb
| I just ship them to where I'm going. Was a massive relief. Maybe
| in a few years.
|
| It's not just pixel density, it's software, weight, latency,
| fiddlelyness.
| chaostheory wrote:
| I feel that the bare minimum headset that can handle work is
| the HP Reverb G2. It's the only headset with a high enough
| resolution under $1000 (you can find it under $300 on eBay).
| There's also Pimax, but their QA and customer support is
| terrible and you need to deal with base stations.
|
| Through the lens comparison g2 vs Index vs Quest 2
|
| https://youtu.be/ny_OPsxHQmU
| andybak wrote:
| The Quest 2 and the Reverb look closer than I expected. The
| contrast is the main difference (and that could be an
| artifact of the way it's shot)
|
| The _tracking_ on the Reverb has a bad reputation and I 've
| avoided it for that reason mainly - as well as the extra
| complexity resulting from using one more translation layer
| (Windows MR > SteamVR) and a minority platoform.
| vagab0nd wrote:
| > The quest won't work in a car as it uses gyros.
|
| Am I reading it correctly you are trying to use VR in a vehicle
| while someone is driving?
|
| I get car sick very easily when riding. I also get motion
| sickness when using VR. I cannot imagine being affected by both
| at the same time.
| pyrolistical wrote:
| No clearly they meant they were driving and working in VR at
| the same time
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| cardosof wrote:
| the AI is driving
|
| On a more serious note since this is not Reddit, I have
| watched movies in VR during bus trips (6h long routes). It
| works, it's way better than looking at laptop/tablet/phone.
| szundi wrote:
| You get sick because what you watch is moving differently
| that your eyes/head. VR is nailed to your head.
| sideshowb wrote:
| Hahaha no. I get sick when the motion I see doesn't match
| the gyros in my ears. I felt horribly sick from vr once
| with the gyros switched off.
| grogenaut wrote:
| I have definitely tried to use VR in a car while someone's
| driving I don't get motion sickness very easy so I often try
| to make myself throw up. When I first tried VR something was
| bugged with elite dangerous and so I was just sitting there
| doing as many barrel rolls and backflips as possible trying
| to make myself throw up and one of my co-workers came in
| looked at the 2D monitor asked me what I was doing said they
| got very motion sick easily and then about 10 seconds later I
| started hearing gagging the 2D was making them nauseous and
| it wasn't even bothering me.
|
| Yeah we were driving across Texas going to a lake and I was
| sitting in the passenger seat so I figured I would try out
| and see how it worked. It did not it freaked out constantly.
| I think if you had a vibe with a laser tracking system it
| would actually work but that would be interesting to mount
| inside of a suburban.
|
| One of my favorite things I ever did was sitting in the bendy
| middle section of a bus in Seattle which constantly moves
| while going up and down the hills and playing super stardust
| HD on Vita that almost got me.
| tim-fan wrote:
| > The quest won't work in a car as it uses gyros.
|
| I did try the quest 2 on a plane and it worked well, apart from
| when the plane was turning or in turbulence. I suppose the
| visual tracking makes an assumption that the world is static,
| which is usually true but breaks down when the plane is
| bouncing up and down.
| bibanez wrote:
| Not an assumption: movement is relative. Quite fun to think
| about it (Einstein's elevator mental experiment)
| grogenaut wrote:
| It did work a little bit better in a plane when I tried it
| however I couldn't get past the unlock screen because I
| hadn't quite paired it correctly and I didn't have internet
| and the quest needed to do something with the internet. This
| actually brings up one of the biggest issues I have with some
| of these systems is they are too tied to the internet for
| remote work
| grogenaut wrote:
| As an addendum one of the things I also remembered in a lower
| comment is that the Facebook devices definitely seem at random
| intervals to need some type of internet connection which is not
| always available when you're working remotely so if you were
| going to plan on working locally off your laptop with no
| internet there are definitely cases where all the sudden your
| display decides it needs to talk to the mothership and
| therefore your display is now locking you out until you get
| back into cell or network coverag.
|
| Similar some of the applications and steam sometimes
| surprisingly want internet connectivity and so some of the
| desktop applications also will lock themselves out randomly
| tchock23 wrote:
| It would be great if people posting opinions in this thread could
| share which headsets they are basing their opinion on.
|
| Many seem to be discounting it entirely without qualifying their
| comments with the headset and tech setup used...
| samstave wrote:
| Dude, get two AOC USB monitors... I have FOUR of them.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/AOC-I1659FWUX-USB-Powered-Portable-19...
| debrice wrote:
| I've tried the quest 2. I truly wanted it to work and was hoping
| I could find fixes when I hit roadblocks. I even invested in the
| most highly rated head strap and foam.
|
| For me it's a no go. The software is kinda ok, the headset are
| also kinda ok but heavy. Overall the experience was mediocre at
| best. I lost velocity for the two weeks I tried using it, it was
| clunky and often not working and needed just too many hacks.
| orbit7 wrote:
| I've got a Quest 2 but used it for about a week barely used it
| since due to eye strain off it had the worst head ache ever after
| 1/2 a day on it, found it had some cool ideas certainly not ready
| for productivity but certainly on the way to it. Quest Pro sounds
| like it could be a game changer but whats it like on eye strain/
| head aches? The continuous IPD adjustment sounds like a real
| improvement but I don't want to gamble on one at 1500.
| chaostheory wrote:
| If you want to work in VR, I recommend getting the highest
| resolution possible. I love my Quest 2 for everything other than
| reading text. It was nausea inducing.
|
| The Valve Index is better but the resolution still isn't there
|
| With HP's reverb G2, it's definitely possible since it has a
| higher resolution at a good price point. You can get used
| headsets for less than $300. It's not great for games that
| require moving around since tracking is horrible, but it's really
| great for work and sim games
| me551ah wrote:
| It's hard to wear a VR headset for long periods. I use one(Quest
| 2) for gaming quite a bit, and the bulk gives you a bit of strain
| after a couple of hours of constant use.
| ilaksh wrote:
| Does that mean it's hard to use any headset, or hard to use
| that one? Have you tried Quest Pro or Vive Flow?
| yrgulation wrote:
| My main issue is using a keyboard while in vr. Feels like a
| keyboard that senses when fingers are near would be useful, so
| you know what key you are about to press. Most of the time i can
| tell particularly if i am used to that keyboard but sometimes its
| trial and error. That or accessible hand gloves. I suppose brain
| impulse reading is still far off as that would solve most input
| issues with vr.
| rabf wrote:
| The quest now has a feature whre it can passthrough a user
| defined portion of the bottom of the screen so that you can see
| your desk while in VR. You can also passthrough physical items
| such as just a keyboard and a cup or everything bar your
| virtual screens in apps such as immersed.
| yrgulation wrote:
| Hmm thats interesting, thanks for sharing. Will give it a
| try.
| jimmySixDOF wrote:
| As evidenced by the keyboard feedback so far, the experience
| has been upgraded several times in Quest 2. Currently there
| are 2 fully supported keyboards the Apple and a Logitech
| K830. With these you get full tracking of the physical board
| and a realtime perfect overly of hand fingers while typing so
| it is no different than irl. Poor lightning or poor contrast
| will degrade the experience. Supported by Infinate Office,
| Immersed, and vSpatial. Other keyboards are visible in
| passthrough so in Q2 this is not perfect but useable and
| should be much better in Pro although still not as good as
| using the main supported keyboards and more are being added
| at least in Infinate Office / Workrooms. Good luck I think
| the benefits today outweigh the difficulty involved.
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