[HN Gopher] Circadian lighting with Home Assistant: Like f.lux, ... ___________________________________________________________________ Circadian lighting with Home Assistant: Like f.lux, but for your house Author : modinfo Score : 346 points Date : 2022-11-07 17:46 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (tylercipriani.com) (TXT) w3m dump (tylercipriani.com) | MontaeSwift wrote: | On sale now, for 50% off. Type in the link | | niceslipperz.myshopify.com | matai_kolila wrote: | F.lux has always bothered me, because despite their very large | volume of supporting papers[0], what I've never seen is a | consistent link between the "blue light" from those many studies | directly back to my real computer/tablet/phone screen. | | I wish there were more studies done _with_ computer monitors, | rather than light boxes directly. | | [0] https://justgetflux.com/research.html | sublinear wrote: | Am I the only person deeply annoyed by this trend? Indoor lights | are dim enough to begin with! | jupp0r wrote: | The problem with solutions like this is that color rendering | index of RGB LEDs is abysmal to the point that I can't really | stand it. I ended up just using 2300K high CRI bulbs throughout. | dotancohen wrote: | Bulb suggestions welcome! | ars wrote: | I'm thinking of using regular bulbs with smart switches, and | dim them, and then add a bit of red light from a color-led | strip. | | I think that would have the same effect, without needing those | specialized bulbs. | syntaxing wrote: | If you're going this route, I'm pretty sure your LED strips must | be RGBWW. Standard RGB strips won't be able to match the | circadian lighting needed. | clashmoore wrote: | I use Home Depot's Wiz lightbulbs for this around my home. $10 a | full-color bulb or so and each one individually connects to the | home's wifi so there's no need for a hub or anything. The app | works fine on my iPhone. | evanlivingston wrote: | I use incandescent and halogen everywhere and don't have a | problem with color temperature. Also, the CRI of my bulbs is | incredible. | | My house has maybe 20 light bulbs in it, most of them under 75 | watts, except for a couple of strategic halogen fixtures. | | Sometimes I think about getting LED smart lighting, but then I | think about how many iterations of setups I would have to go | through it get everything dialed in, all the e-waste I would be | contributing to, all the plastic, all the security | vulnerabilities, all the software updates, all the glitches, all | the flicker from cheap PWD circuitry and I decide to stick with | simple glass and red hot metal. | Syonyk wrote: | On top of that, even the "warm" color temperature LEDs put out | a pretty good spike of blue light. I'm working on some analysis | of this, and even the "warm glow" sort... yeah, there's a ton | of blue. Right in the realm of spectrum that convinces our body | it's day. | | So I'm not sure that the whole color shifting makes a big | difference if you don't get rid of the blue as well. White LEDs | are generally blue LEDs with phosphor coatings, but they still | leak the blue. It's quite annoying. | | I've been going back to incandescents and they're properly nice | in the evenings. | Marsymars wrote: | > I use incandescent and halogen everywhere and don't have a | problem with color temperature. | | Well, you might not have a problem, but some people like colour | temperatures >3000K. | | > Sometimes I think about getting LED smart lighting, but then | I think about how many iterations of setups I would have to go | through it get everything dialed in, all the e-waste I would be | contributing to, all the plastic, all the security | vulnerabilities, all the software updates, all the glitches, | all the flicker from cheap PWD circuitry and I decide to stick | with simple glass and red hot metal. | | I've found a lot of that hassle is mitigated by getting high- | end dumb LED bulbs, paired with reliable smart switches (only | where specifically required for automation purposes) from a | traditional lighting manufacturer with long support periods. | (Lutron.) | ChrisArchitect wrote: | [dupe]? This was submitted multiple times ago when it came out a | month ago | aaron695 wrote: | odiroot wrote: | This actually makes so much sense, as opposed to changing the | colours on your laptop/phone. You want your electronic devices to | just be darker, while preserving the original colours. | | While making your LED lamps warmer is more pleasant to the eyes, | without affecting how you view your screens. | Marsymars wrote: | FYI Apple devices by default adjust screen colour temperature | based on ambient light temperature. (Branded "True Tone".) | noobface wrote: | Done this for the past 6 years running a combo of cheap zwave | color temp adjusting lights, smart things, and a smart things app | automation called circadian daylight. | | Guide/Forum: https://community.smartthings.com/t/circadian- | daylight-smart... | | Makes the evenings more laid back and I'm able to sleep a bit | easier. Well worth the effort to get it setup. | AdamJacobMuller wrote: | What kind of bulbs are you using? Most of the z-wave ones I | found do not have great CRI and the cheap ones generally don't | support white color temperature at all (falling back on some | RGB). | noobface wrote: | Looks like I was mistaken. We've replaced all the zwave bulbs | with Sylvania Osram zigbee-based ones in our new place. | Cheapo stuff, but they don't flicker when adjusting | temperatures/brightness: | | https://www.amazon.com/73742-SYLVANIA-Adjustable- | SmartThings... | | Smart things has been a bit of a mess lately with their | automation related to zigbee. They've got a hotfix rolling | out, but it's been a month or two of random lights turning on | or refusing to turn off. | mozman wrote: | I have recessed lighting in my home with non-serviceable | LEDs. | | I would love to find a replacement that supports multiple | color temperatures. | | Suggestions solicited! | Marsymars wrote: | My house has recessed LEDs throughout with hardware | switches to control the colour temperature between five | options. My approach has been to set colour temperature | based on room (warmer in living rooms, basement, cooler in | kitchen, etc.). I then use separate lamps or light fixtures | to fill in where I want different colour temperatures. | (Bedrooms and offices have ceiling fans with warm lights as | well as some hue lights with colour temp that changes based | on time, kitchen and dining room have warmer pendant lights | / chandelier, etc.) | | Some manufacturers make dumb bulbs that dim-to-warm, which | are very nice for some applications. (Dim-to-warm recessed | LEDs exist, but they weren't optimal for my application.) | AdamJacobMuller wrote: | I just replaced everything with high-hats. | | The decision was made easier when the living room ceiling | collapsed on me. | AdamJacobMuller wrote: | I've been doing this for years with Lifx bulbs: | https://github.com/adamjacobmuller/lifx/ | | Works really well. Lifx bulbs have excellent CRI (proper color | temperature adjustments, not just fumbling with RGB) the only | downside being they are not cheap. Worth it IMO though. | CharlesW wrote: | Apple's supported this for a while via HomeKit Adaptive | Lighting as well. It's great that it's becoming more | ubiquitous! | fotta wrote: | I wish I could adjust the curve though. It's still too white | in the evenings for me. | AdamJacobMuller wrote: | This is part of why I wrote my own software to do this. | Lifx kinda had the feature implemented (I do no like how | theirs works) but also the curve was not great. Too dim in | daytime, too bright at 2am. | tshaddox wrote: | Yeah, that was released with iOS 14 in September 2020. | There's very little official information or documentation I | can find on it, but it's mentioned here: | | https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/control- | accessories-i... | xoa wrote: | Lighting was the first and still most meaningful smarthome thing | I've done, though I did it much more manually. Hue bulbs don't | require any sort of WAN link, the hub(s) will work fine purely | via LAN (though without firmware updates sadly without opening a | hole), and of course one can then remote in with a VPN (via a | bounce/mesh if you don't have a fixed IP) like anything else LAN- | based. And 3rd party apps can seamlessly deal with multiple hubs. | This is a fun read because I've been considering moving to Home | Assistant, primarily because I'm worried about what happens when | the hubs inevitably fail. 10+ years after its launch Philips has | still never bothered to implement and backup/restore | functionality(!!!), so that's a real driver. But in terms of pure | functionality it's worked very well to code up a bunch of manual | timers and time-of-day-based options on switches. | | And in terms of QoL impact it's been a pretty big deal for us. | For context I live near the Canadian border, so not Alaska-level | in terms of differences in night/day over the course of a year | but far enough north that it does vary quite a lot. Being able to | have a whole "sunrise" scene for the house, to have "daylight" | with varying use of color and brightness (I've added 2 or 3 way | bulb systems to a bunch of lamps to deal with Hue color bulbs not | having as much brightness range as would be ideal), and warmth at | night has made it so much easier to maintain proper sleep cycles. | Rather then an audible alarm, I have a 15-minute animation of | "sunrise" I put together that gently wakes me up and by the time | it's getting to the whiter/bluer portion I'm set, I head down | without any grogginess even when it's still black out. This all | works for motion sensors too, and I've been able to massively cut | down blue light emission and emission period of outdoor light at | night without compromising safety and that I think is quite | important for wildlife. There has been research on rampant blue | light (and artificial light in general) affecting insect | populations, which are under pressure anyway. | | I think Smart Home kit is powerful and can be (and certainly has | been) misused. I will not touch anything with any sort of | internet requirement, I segment things onto their own VLANs, and | I'd be more cautious about it for things without the same visible | indicators or with more potential side effects. But it has a real | place too, and lighting is a perfect use case. I hope efforts | like Matter pan out, the real issue is how vertically tied a lot | of stacks are. | holahola2020 wrote: | hello | holahola2020 wrote: | hola | teslabox wrote: | In the beginning of Electric Light, all bulbs were 2500K | (incandescent). Mercury Vapor lights started getting used | outdoors, but eventually the lighting industry figured out High | Pressure Sodium (blue-free), and Low Pressure Sodium (pure | orange) for outdoor lighting. Halogens can be tuned, I think... | Some Halogens are 3000K. Automotive halogens are much more | orange/yellow than the halogens I have in my ceiling fan. | | The two essential tools for creating a tolerable light in our | modern world are dimmer switches and the using safe color | temperatures for LED light sources. | | > The most significant benefit I've noticed is that I can get | back to sleep after getting up in the middle of the night--now | that I'm no longer blinded by harsh overhead light in the | bathroom. | | My bathroom has too much light most of the time. If I was | "working on my makeup" the amount of light would be just right, | but that's not me. I bought my first dimmer switch at Habitat for | Humanity. It was the kind that has a little lever next to the | on/off switch - basically you decide on the amount of light, then | it's pre-set to that amount. | | The Habitat dimmer switch was okay, but I'd still walk into the | bathroom from a black hallway and blind myself, as I never | checked the light level before hitting the switch. On surveying | the dimmers at Home Depot, I settled on the kind that starts | "off", and gradually increases the light level. | | My other dimmer switches are the classic round-dimmer option, and | one that has a button and a big 'how much light do you want' .... | "slide": | | https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Wiring-Devices-Light-... | | I have three bedroom light switches. Ceiling fan light has | halogen bulbs with a slide dimmer. Outlet switch has a deep red | LED bulb in a table lamp. There was a 5000K fluorescent above the | closet that I replaced with a fixture from the thrift store, that | has a mix of orange and red bulbs. | | The kitchen has horrible hanging lights over the stove. Someone | installed 3000K LED bulbs. I replaced these with incandescents | and halogens, and installed a dimmer, but they were all terrible. | Eventually I found some 2000K "Amber" Philips LED bulbs. These | work with my LED dimmer, and are tolerable. With the Amber bulbs | at least you're not staring into an artificial sun. If it was up | to me, I'd get rid of the hanging lights and go back to the 90's | light canisters in the ceiling. | | tl/dr: Good lighting is invisible. Bad lighting forces people to | stare into artificial suns. "5000K" light sources are for plants, | NOT people. To protect eyes, slide dimmers that always start with | the minimum amount of light are the greatest. | bravoetch wrote: | Good dimmers have adjustable 'minimum' settings. Often a simple | plastic screw behind the plate that you can tweak. | | Philips 'warm glow' bulbs are warmer when dim, and cooler when | bright. I use these throughout. In combination with smart | dimmers that allow setting the 'on power' in HA. At sunrise and | sunset the on-power for my dimmers is reset to 100% and 30% | respectively. | jefftk wrote: | _> In the evenings, after the sun sets, the lights dim, and it | gets harder to read and work on projects--that's a feature. It's | a signal that it's time for bed._ | | Here in Boston the sun will set at 4:30 today, but that's way too | early to be starting to send my body "time to go to bed" signals. | jonah wrote: | Did you know that the actual, original, F.lux works with Philips | Hue! | | https://justgetflux.com/lighting/ | Semaphor wrote: | Kinda. I never managed to get it to work. | | I then tried it with home assistant a few years ago, until I | finally stopped using both f.lux and leaving my lights on | yellow anyway ;) | philihp wrote: | This should have always been a feature of the Hue bulbs. Might | have been able to justify the cost, but now they're just 4x the | cost of competitors that don't need a hub. | hermanb wrote: | It is a feature of the Hue bulbs being worked upon, see: | https://hueblog.com/2022/07/16/natural-light-new-function- | no... | jedberg wrote: | Ha, I've been doing this manually for years. I found smart lights | that could get as low as 1850k and then put them in key areas in | the house. After the kids go to bed, I try to limit all lighting | to 1850K (as well as using that color temp on all screens that I | use at night). | | Of course I'm just one person so it's all anecdotal, but it | definitely has helped my sleep in a noticeable way since I did | it. | yamtaddle wrote: | Cutting total light down a lot helps, too. The 60-75 watt | (incandescent or equivalent) standard for lights--often with | several such bulbs active per room, even--is way brighter than | needed. Dropping room light to only enough to navigate the room | safely, and using slightly-brighter (but still nowhere near 60 | watt) lamps, either hand-portable or in particular locations, | makes a huge difference, and you can still do almost anything | in that kind of lighting. | | Once you get used to much lower lighting at night, ordinary | whole-room lighting seems insane. Why try to make it as bright | as day at night? You can read, play board and card games, play | music, even draw or something like that, with a small faction | as much light as the typical house puts out when you flip the | light switch in a room. And it has big effects on sleepiness | (if you don't ruin it by staring at a hyper-stimulating glowing | rectangle--color temp may help a little, but Internet-connected | screens are sleep poison) | anikom15 wrote: | What's the value? Sunlight is free for daytime, and soft white | bulbs are cheaper than smart bulbs for nighttime. Traditional | timers, switches, and the clapper can add 'automation' if | necessary. | clktmr wrote: | There are light bulbs that will automatically decrease light | temperature when they are dimmed (e.g. Phillips with "Warm | Glow"). There is no use case for either warm bright or cold dim | light. | | Made the installation much simpler for me, because you can use | standard dimmers without an extra communication path for CCT. | AceJohnny2 wrote: | FWIW, Apple HomeKit + Hue has supported this for a few years | (fall 2020?), they call it Adaptive Lighting, and for me this has | been a killer app. | | It's kind of a bummer that Hue doesn't support it natively, but | since I was already in the Homekit ecosystem, it was fine for me. | | I've paired this with powerful Sowilo [1] light strips, which | have excellent warm/daylight white range and brightness, and it's | kept S.A.D. in relative check. | | [1] https://sowilodesign.com I'm sure some people can come up | with a cheaper solution via AliExpress than Sowilo's, but having | a turnkey solution that integrated with Hue was essential for me. | drewbitt wrote: | HomeKit adaptive lighting requires an always-at-home iPad or | Apple TV to set it up. Until I have those I find manually | setting a large amount of Hue schedules at various times to be | OK. | Marsymars wrote: | Note that Apple has taken away the ability of the iPad to | serve as a Home Hub in the latest iPadOS, and the HomePod or | HomePod Mini can also serve as Home Hubs. | artimaeis wrote: | Just to be pedantic, the current iPadOS _does_ support it. | But there will be an update to the Home software later this | year that removes the ability for the iPad to serve as a | home hub. | | https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-16/ | | > 14. The new Home architecture is a separate update in the | Home app, and will be available in a software update later | this year. It requires all Apple devices that access the | home to be using the latest software. Sharing control of | your home and receiving Home notifications require a home | hub. Only Apple TV and HomePod are supported as home hubs. | AceJohnny2 wrote: | I've been really confused by this regression of theirs. | But I note that the shift will happen at the same time as | they introduce Matter support, so perhaps that's related? | artimaeis wrote: | That's my suspicion as well! I'm looking forward to | seeing what comes of the change. | lloeki wrote: | I've been endlessly enraged that they would not allow a Mac | Mini to serve as a Home Hub, while allowing a mobile device | that may not be always plugged (and thus may run out of | battery or not be home) in to serve as one. | | At least it's consistent now. | squokko wrote: | They probably never wrote any of the software for | anything but iOS | WorldMaker wrote: | I've been doing it with Hue schedules too for a while. The | Hue app does have automations support of rules based on | Sunrise and Sunset. It's not quite as smart as HomeKit | adaptive lighting because you can not, say, turn off lights | during sunrise and expect them to wakeup in your post-sunset | mood at the right hour, but if you are automating all | lighting with the Hue hub alone and never using switches, it | seems to work just fine. | AceJohnny2 wrote: | > _which have excellent warm /daylight white range and | brightness_ | | I must add that full-color lighting has turned out to be a | gimmick. But a wide "white" color range (what Hue calls "White | Ambiance") has been the real game-changer for me. Sowilo does a | great job with its 2200k to 6500k "white" range. | | These kind of LED lights are called "CCT" for "Color Calibrated | Temperature", if you're searching on AliExpress. | odysseus wrote: | Adaptive Lighting also works with the cheaper Philips Wiz | bulbs, provided you use HomeBridge. ( I'm using this plugin for | Wiz support: https://github.com/kpsuperplane/homebridge-wiz- | lan#readme ) There's probably a Home Assistant plugin too ... | | Wiz bulbs will also be getting Matter support within the next | year, so we'll be able to add them to HomeKit "natively". | matthewmcg wrote: | I've used an app called Wake Up Light for a while with my Lutron | dimmers and HomeKit. You set up some basic parameters and it | generates a series of automations that gradually dims the light | up to a specified brightness at a specified time. It makes waking | up easier for me when it's dark outside. | xwowsersx wrote: | I would love to do this, but without running my own machines and | doing all the hacking (as fun and educational as that seems like | it would be!) What is the easiest route to getting lighting | throughout the house to match circadian rhythm? | Terretta wrote: | For curious buyers, this is already more or less built in: | | - Philips Hue + Hue Hub : the default Hue app can do this, | leveraging Hue Labs "Feel better with light" that runs from the | hub so you don't need a laptop or other device after the formula | is installed. | | - Apple HomeKit Adaptive Lighting + Hue or Eve -- I'm a big fan | of Eve light strips. See more accessories here: | https://www.imore.com/best-accessories-with-homekit-adaptive... | | Beyond those, there are other options w/o getting too tricky: | | - Hue + Hue Automations + LivingScenes (or similar) + shift at | sundown/sunrise | | - Hue Labs (various other options) | | - Third party apps like HueDynamics, and f.lux itself | | - IFTTT: https://ifttt.com/connect/weather/hue | | For what it's worth, the Philips Hue white bulbs that vary the | white temperature are great, with a better fuller white than the | full color bulbs. | proee wrote: | How about a pair of goggles with a filter that can dynamically | adjust the amount and color of light that gets through to your | eyes. So, no matter what the environment you're in, your eye | always get the right light at the right time? | thealch3m1st wrote: | Was doing this with HomeKit and Philips hue years ago. | darkwater wrote: | Circadian lights and dimmed (don't have color bulbs there) | bathroom lights at night with motion sensor are alone a reason | big enough to start this domotic journey. | thegagne wrote: | On this topic, I need to replace the 2x4 flush fluorescents | (ballasts are bad) in my basement. Any suggestions? | | Also looking for basic motion sensor to turn them off when nobody | is down there. | hedora wrote: | Bypass the ballasts (trivial if you are comfortable with AC | wiring) and buy a no-ballast led tube. The company I purchased | mine from went out of business. | | Make sure the CRI is above 90, assuming you care. | pkulak wrote: | I would like to do something like this, but it would mean moving | the smart bits from my switches to my bulbs, which I'm just not | really willing to do. Right now, if I take a hammer to my Home | Assistant server, all my lights still turn on and off at the | wall. | | A good option might be to move to those new Inovelli Blue Zigbee | switches and pair them directly with the bulbs. But I've already | swapped all the switches in my house once... | rednerrus wrote: | Am I overthinking this or can I just use the Lifx bulbs an the | sunset lights routine in the Alexa app? | diimdeep wrote: | I am testing atm theory that cycling environment color | temperature from cold to warm and back to cold in 90 seconds | boost your performance in monotonic work by at least 15%. There | is some old publication somewhere accoring to my sources, but I | could not find it. | MattDemers wrote: | If you're interested in HomeAssistant to solve this problem, I | wrote a simpler implementation, [1] of using the sunrise/sun | position sensor to change scenes for a room's lights. This didn't | involve having a Zigbee hub like this post suggests, mostly | because all my lights were Hue, or Zigbee-compatible (IKEA- | branded Tradfri lights) that were already on my Hue bridge. | | I found this worked for me, since I only needed to create four | automations: | | - What happens if the lights are turned on after/before sunset | (2) | | - What happens if if the lights are already on after/before | sunset when it changes (2) | | This implementation seems more around more fine adjustments to | brightness/colour/colour temp, but mine's more geared towards "Is | the sun down? Change the scene." | | [1] https://mattdemers.com/sun-specific-light-automations- | with-h... | themaninthedark wrote: | This looks amazing! I have been following home automation with a | bit of skepticism, after all any fool can muck things up but to | truly muck it up you require a computer and I dislike the | traditional offerings due to privacy reasons. | | But this is something along the lines of what I would hope home | assistance would do as well as being all self-hosted! | hermanb wrote: | https://hueblog.com/2022/07/16/natural-light-new-function-no... | liotier wrote: | A mix of 5500degk high-CRI LED and CFL in every room. Night is | when I switch them off. Bang-bang control for the circadian | rhythm ! | fassssst wrote: | A bought a bunch of Hue bulbs to setup auto color temperature | changing, but both my wife and I found we prefer warm white at | all times. Oh well. | chem83 wrote: | While I'm a die-hard LED bulb consumer for its obvious longevity | and efficiency advantages, I always wonder whether their | seemingly invisible flickering messes up more with my well-being | than the lack of light temperature and light brightness controls | would. Would be nice to see some research on this. | outworlder wrote: | Since when LED bulbs flicker? | function_seven wrote: | A lot of cheaper ones do half-wave rectification on the mains | voltage, so they flicker at 60hz (or 50hz). Slightly "better" | ones will do full-wave rectification but no smoothing, so | they flicker at 120hz (or 100hz). | | A crap ton of decorative "Edison-style" bulbs have this cheap | or non-existant circuitry in them. Buying from Amazon is a | huge gamble. I have slow-mo video of disappointing lights. | | The quality bulbs will power the LEDs from a smooth DC | voltage and not flicker. | lbj wrote: | I think the sun was actually invented for this purpose | Scene_Cast2 wrote: | I'm currently looking to retrofit my place with variable color | temperature lights. In industry parlance, it's is called "Tunable | White". On one hand, non-hobbyist industry has a ton of great | hardware options. High CRI, high R9, guaranteed lack of white | point drift, 0.1%-100% dimming (although 85 CRI and 10-100% is | most of what you'd typically find at Home Depot), etc. | | My issue is that there are several competing control standards | (with 0-10V being the more common but primitive one for America), | and plenty of them (like PoE Ethernet lighting - super cool IMHO) | are very much commercial-only. And stuff like Lutron's RadioRA is | quite proprietary, with not much interoperability. | | On the other hand, going with Phillips Hue or similar will lock | me into that ecosystem - which also dictates which lights and | switches I could use. | the_pwner224 wrote: | Philips Hue operates over Zigbee so there isn't vendor lock in. | Like you, I've also had exposure to the high end industrial LED | emitters, but using those at home is hard. I ended up going | with Ikea TRADFRI bulbs, they are much cheaper than Hue (USD | 9-13 each) and don't seem to be any worse than the Hue bulbs. | Ikea also sells Tradfri buttons (switches to control the bulbs) | and motion sensors. And not relevant for this, but also Tradfri | controllable power outlets. | | I'm using a Sonoff Zigbee 3.0 dongle (available on ebay for | $20, uses a TI Zigbee chip) plugged into a small single board | computer server. Zigbee2MQTT is FOSS software which interfaces | with the Zigbee dongle and manages the Zigbee network. You can | pair devices to the network with with its web GUI. Zigbee2MQTT | allows you to control the devices over MQTT, a lightweight | messaging protocol. I wrote a Python script for this. It | connects to MQTT and listens for messages from the buttons (on, | off, brightness up/down, CCT up/down). When it gets a message | from a button or motion sensor, the script sends a MQTT command | to the relevant bulb / group of bulbs. | | My setup is all Ikea Tradfri, but I could very easily add in | Hue bulbs or other Zigbee devices such as ones from Aqara or | Sonoff. I just purchased a Zigbee thermostat but haven't gotten | around to setting it up yet. The whole thing works without | internet access. Though you could expose the MQTT server to the | internet and set up a method to control your devices when away | from home. | | The main risk is that the industry moves past Zigbee. It's | already moving to Thread & Matter, but I've only done a bit of | research into that. I think Zigbee will be supported and | products will continue to be available for a while. Or a self- | hosted Thread software might also end up existing. | | The tradfri bulbs don't dim to 0.1% but they get pretty dim. | And your control software could do things like selectively turn | off certain bulbs in a room as you command it to lower | brightnesses. The CCT range is good enough for me. The Tradfri | bulbs are specified as >90 CRI. They don't flicker. | function_seven wrote: | > _On the other hand, going with Phillips Hue or similar will | lock me into that ecosystem - which also dictates which lights | and switches I could use._ | | Good news, there's no lock in with Hue. I have about 20 of | those bulbs around my house and they all work great with the | generic Zigbee coordinator attached to my Home Assistant box. I | don't use the Hue Hub, nor do I use the app. | | Alongside those bulbs I have another 15-ish Sengled bulbs that | also speak Zigbee. They're cheaper and similar in quality, but | the color temps don't get as low as Hue. (2700K vs. 2200K on | the Hue) | | Only caveat with the Hue bulbs is that if you need to reset | them for any reason, you'll need either a Hue Hub or one of | their dimmers to do that. So I guess there's a little lock-in | on that front, but it's not an ecosystem thing where you're | stuck. | atrainedmonkey wrote: | To avoid vendor lockin you can run an install of Home Assistant | with a Deconz zigbee USB dongle, which can then act as a hub | for a massive range of zigbee devices. including Phillips hue, | but I use Ikea's Tradfri bulbs at a third of the price. | Duhck wrote: | I started a company to pursue circadian lighting (called Twist) | and sadly pivoted away from it as a core value proposition | because of weak reception from the market. | | I feel we were 20 years too early (we shut down about 5 years | ago). | | Our tech enabled smart circadian lighting (we called it adaptive | lighting) without configuration, an app, or wifi. The lightbulbs | worked without any smart gadgetry necessary. | | Every time the switch turned on the light made a 20 ms | computation based on the time it stored (via a low power clock | and a super cap) and turned to the right brightness and color | temperature automatically. This was protected by a patent but | also could not find a buyer for the tech despite how | differentiated it was | | Now I have an entire home with hue downlights + bulbs that does | circadian lighting (with HASS as well) and while its not nearly | as elegant of a solution as Twist (aforementioned startup), it is | pretty great and a huge life changer to me and my fiance. | | Edit: for context we use Philips Hue downlight retrofits + bulbs | in other fixtures, all white ambiance, and Lutron Aurora dimmers, | connected to HASS on a RBPI, running adaptive lighting from HACS | Duhck wrote: | Adding our failed Series A pitch deck because I think its | interesting for this crowd: | | https://docsend.com/view/bm5za5w | hatware wrote: | How did these Twist bulbs account for differences in time zone? | If I have some of these lights and I move hundreds of miles to | a new time zone, plug the same lights into the new home, how do | they lights know? | Duhck wrote: | Yea great question. The bulbs were provisioned via an iOS app | and there was a Wifi bulb sold that had a speaker in it (part | of our pivot towards more marketable products) | | The bulbs could have been updated either by A) having a wifi | bulb that then synchronized each other node via a low power | mesh network, or B) by opening the app and connecting to the | network. | | We effectively used the BLE radio to make a mesh network and | a BLE device (phone) could connect and send and receive over | the mesh. | bboygravity wrote: | This is exactly a product idea I had and a product I have | been desperate to find and buy. Included the "no cloud | connection or hub needed" being a desired feature. | | Instead I now have a crappy overly complex setup that | involves a bunch of lifx bulbs, a flic hub and buttons and | a synology NAS running some python scripts from task | scheduler every few minutes to set the desired temperature | at certain time ranges (hard coded). | | That Twist idea sound(ed) perfect. What a bummer that it | didnt work out. | ilyt wrote: | I kinda wish industry would converge on one standard for | the devices themselves and compete on "IOT cloud/hub | controller" instead of trying to build tiny closed | ecosystems around eachother. | | MQTT + some schema for typical devices would be a dream. | Maybe have some of those devices be able to act as hub | themselves with option to connect to "bigger" controller | (whether cloud or on premise) but still be able to handle | basic functions when say internet is down | striking wrote: | That kind of already exists with Home Assistant. Granted, | it often feels like a thin wrapper around lots of tiny | closed ecosystems, but the fact that most things | interoperate well enough means I can recommend it. | | Matter/Thread exist as well, and some smart device makers | claim to already have adopted it, so we'll see how that | all goes. | __turbobrew__ wrote: | I wonder how much it would cost to put an gps receiver in | every lightbulb? If you can get a gps signal you can get a | rough guesstimate of the bulbs location and time and | therefore adjust to fit the local circadian rhythm. | | Or maybe you could sync to a local radio time station? | ilyt wrote: | $2-3 but GPS antenna is pretty bulky so forget it. | | Local radio time is generally iffy if you can't afford | bigger antenna. Syncing my watch is basically impossible | indoors, althought you might be able to get a bit bigger | antenna in a bulb... but they will also be in much worse | locations (near walls and inside metal enclosures) | Duhck wrote: | both GPS and radio time receivers are very expensive. LED | bulbs are a commodity product and thus have little room for | margin. | | Our low power clock + super cap added $1.25 of BOM which | translates to $2.50-$3 of cost to the user. | | Led bulbs at Home Depot are $3-5 on the low end. | [deleted] | drc500free wrote: | In all honesty, I've found it healthier to have fixed color | temperature in different rooms, and change what room I'm in | throughout the day. I'm only in my bedroom when warm lighting | makes sense, I'm only in my office when cool lighting makes | sense. That helps establish other healthy habits than just | sleep, and keeping the bedroom dedicated to sex and sleep is a | good practice anyway to combat insomnia. | runjake wrote: | I do this, but also have different lighting options in | certain rooms, like the office. | | In my office, the ceiling light is a daylight bulb, but i | also have a couple lamps with warmer lights. During the day, | I run the ceiling light, and after sunset, turn the ceiling | light off and turn the lamps on. | | Perhaps a bit Luddite, but less fuss and cost. | TremendousJudge wrote: | That sounds great, but many people (especially those living | in cities) don't have that many rooms in their home, so other | solutions are needed. | argondonor wrote: | In the past I have put up a curtain around my bed (although | originally for other reasons.) Like a homemade canopy bed! | [deleted] | liotier wrote: | > keeping the bedroom dedicated to sex and sleep | | Yes. No computer of any sort, the alarm clock's only advanced | technology is radio-synchronization and I don't even let a | book enter the bedroom - that is for the living-room couch. | Does wonder for sanctuarizing the late evening ! | vageli wrote: | Would you mind sharing the patent number? It sounds like an | interesting technology to read more about. | Duhck wrote: | https://patents.google.com/patent/US9784417B1/en?oq=9784417 | | A lot of the claims surrounded how we designed and | manufactured a light bulb that was modular. | | We could support speakers, cameras, and sensors in the same | form factor without any material mechanical or electrical | changes. | m4jor wrote: | Have you ever thought about just releasing the patent for | everyone to use? Patents stifle innovation iirc. | hobo_mark wrote: | Not to sound like the infamous Dropbox comment, but would the | patent prevent you from doing? Changing light temperature and | colour over the course of the day? I've been doing that for | years with a cronjob. Doing so without a microcontroller? | Those cost pennies nowadays. | 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: | > we shut down about 5 years ago | Duhck wrote: | The patent was handed over to our debt financing company | (WTI) and sits idle. | | The actual patent covered the method for tracking time | without power and for synchronizing clocks over a low power | mesh network | yeutterg wrote: | We've worked on similar circadian products, and I have a | similar setup at home. IMO, we're getting closer to the time | the market is ready. The main learning is to release MVPs and | continue to gather feedback from/build a relationship with the | core early adopter market. The market is small, probably in the | tens of millions of dollars annually, but the right solution is | going to be easy to setup/use with a good UI, and priced at a | slight premium over other lighting (but not exorbitantly). | Duhck wrote: | If you ask me I dont think average users will ever pay for a | solution to this problem. | | People are simply not aware that their blue-heavy LED lights | either cause harm to their sleep schedule or simply feel | clinical at night. | | I live in a very affluent mountain town now, one thats very | aware of light pollution and is a general haven for health | nuts, and yet 75% of the houses I see with lights on at night | have blue-white lights. Especially in their kitchens. This | makes sense as they are working areas | rootusrootus wrote: | > If you ask me I dont think average users will ever pay | for a solution to this problem. | | I tend to agree. I'm inclined to appreciate the technology, | yet at the same time I don't think I like it well enough to | blow $60/each to replace all my can lights with Hues. I | just run 2700K bulbs for almost every light in the house | (excepting the garage & my workshop), and in some areas I | make it very bright in lieu of going towards the blue end | of the spectrum. | beebeepka wrote: | Have you noticed the median age of those with white lights? | I'd assume it's mostly old people. Personally, I'd stay in | the dark before subjecting myself to that sort of unnatural | light | ilyt wrote: | That sounds like something you want as a feature in bigger | system, not something you'd want to buy a specific bulb just | for that. | | > Every time the switch turned on the light made a 20 ms | computation based on the time it stored (via a low power clock | and a super cap) and turned to the right brightness and color | temperature automatically. | | Where it got the time sync from ? You said it didn't need | configuration or an app ? | joch wrote: | I would like to recommend Adaptive Lighting in favor of Circadian | Lighting. It has the added benefit of being able to detect if | someone manually adjusts the brightness or color, and then stops | the automatic adjustment for that light. | | https://github.com/basnijholt/adaptive-lighting | dayyan wrote: | 2700K 90+ CRI bulbs + Dimmer | kefabean wrote: | some hi-CRI bulbs even lower the colour temperature to mimic | incandescents when dimmed. | cycrutchfield wrote: | Dimmer + Philips Warm Glow 2200K-2700K bulb | rsoto wrote: | I wish something like this existed for TVs. Since I got my | eyesight procedure 10+ years ago, I soon noticed I was quite | sensitive to lights that didn't affect me at all (maybe my vision | was too bad to even notice, don't know). That extreme sensitivity | faded off in the first six months, but I still get annoyed by | some lights and the first thing I do with a new PC/Phone is | setting up Redshift[1] or Twilight[2], and although I'm not a big | TV consumer, the times I do watch it, I wonder if there's a | market for this kind of features. | | 1: https://github.com/jonls/redshift | | 2: | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.urbandroid... | Havoc wrote: | Didn't realize there was an automation for it - neat. | binarysolo wrote: | Doesn't Hue do this already with a more elegant solution? | | I have a Hue setup at home and I do something like this, but | hackier through an iPhone app I set up 4-5 years ago (it hasn't | broken yet and I haven't touched it); I believe there are more | elegant software solutions these days. | bippingchip wrote: | While I haven't gotten my lights set up like this, I do use home | assistant, just like the author and it is simply amazing. For | things like this, the setup can get quite complex, but the main | benefit is that it provides a unified interface to any connected | device in your home. | | My main use case is energy tracking: it does a marvelous job | collecting and graphing data across a bunch of different sources: | from the solar panels from one vendor, the semi proprietary smart | meter protocol my electricity company has, weather data etc. | Having all that data together in 1 place is an invaluable tool to | make any investment decisions on energy improvements to our | house. | runjake wrote: | How/what are you using to monitor your smart meter? | makr17 wrote: | Not OP, but in my jurisdiction the smart power meters | broadcast consumption as SCM at 900MHz. rtlamr | | https://github.com/bemasher/rtlamr | | does a good job of receiving and decoding those broadcasts | using a cheap SDR. My local water utility also broadcasts | consumption as SCM+, also 900MHz. I'm able to grab both with | the single SDR. | pimeys wrote: | Add Node-Red to that and building automations is a breeze. And | with a stick such as Conbee 2 you can control all the lights | and non-light ZigBee products directly from Home Assistant. | | And you do not have to firewall the bridge from calling home | once a minute. | mxstbr wrote: | This reminded me of the video by DIY Perks building an | "artificial sunlight" for their office: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqBsHSwPgw | | The amount of effort is unbelievable, but I'd love to have | something like this at home. I can only imagine the impact on my | productivity during winter evenings... | bsimpson wrote: | I was at a party this weekend at a co-op where many of the | rooms had no windows. I'm sure something like that would be | well-appreciated. | | A few years back there was a philanthropist who wanted to | donate housing to a university, but one of his stipulations was | that everyone got their own room, and that the rooms that | didn't get natural light would be outfitted with an artificial | window like this. | UniverseHacker wrote: | I don't really see an advantage to this over just installing | fixed warm color temperature lights in the house. Depends on the | building I suppose, but a well designed house should have enough | natural light to only use the lights at the time when you would | want 'warm.' If you live in at high latitude and need a 'SAD' | light for morning and daytime use, that will always be a | different light fixture and system, and therefore doesn't require | this type of setup either. | | Ultimately, regular indoor lights just aren't bright enough to | engage the biological response of daylight, regardless of color | temperature. | alar44 wrote: | Depends on where you live. Where I'm at it gets dark at 4:30PM | in the winter. | PaulHoule wrote: | I dunno. | | I spend time in the evening working on art projects where the | color rendition of LED-based "warm" bulbs is awful (can't tell | the difference between the coated and uncoated sides of inkjet | paper), although there are some halogen-based "warm" bulbs that | are a lot better. | | Most of the lights in my house are set to "warm" but I do use | "cool" when I need to make fine sensory distinctions and I have | a work area with a few of those halogen-based bulbs that I turn | on as needed. | | https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/colorviewbulbs.html | fy20 wrote: | Maybe in California you don't need this, but in the northern | half of Europe (i.e. Germany and above) the weather this time | of year is pretty abysmal. My office has floor to ceiling glass | on three sides, but today at 2pm we had to turn on the lights | because it was so cloudy and dark. The 10kWp of solar on my | roof produced 2kWh today. | | I agree that most indoor lights are not bright enough, but | that's mainly because there hasn't been an easy way to regulate | them. There's no reason why you can't light your living space | to 500 or more lux (most living rooms are barely 150 lux) at | 6500k and regulate it down at night, and something like this | makes it easy to do. | UniverseHacker wrote: | I found I need about 20k lux for much of the day to not feel | sleepy or depressed in the daytime. I had to move to | California and work outdoors to overcome this, I used to live | far north, but even "extremely bright" indoor lights weren't | enough to have a positive effect on me. | LtWorf wrote: | My office looks like candlelit... on dark days you get so | sleepy. | PaulHoule wrote: | When I was living in Germany I felt like I was an astronaut | in December because it never got very bright during the day | and the nights seemed to last forever. My biological clock | quickly got unstuck and started running free. | dbttdft wrote: | You do realize Northern Europeans are adapted to needing less | sunlight? I would emulate candles if I were you. Which means | warm color temperatures. So you don't need the product of | this thread, you just need a simple warm color temperature | bulb. Do some extra research and get one that doesn't | flicker. | AdamJacobMuller wrote: | From lookin on amazon, SAD lights seem to be ~10k lux. I have | 8*Lifx BR-30 at 1100 Lux each in my kitchen/living room. Seems | pretty close. | ianburrell wrote: | SAD lights are used at distance of 1-2 ft to get that | brightness. | | Your bulbs are probably 1100 lumen. Lumen and lux are | different. Specifying lux requires specifying the distance or | area. 8800 lumen on ceiling would be more like 800 lux at | normal distance. Which is a bright room but not sunlight | bright which is needed for SAD. | jamesdwilson wrote: | Is there any evidence F.lux and similar actually do anything | other than make pretty lights? I mean, that's fine enough if | that's what you want but I often hear health or sleep claims | made. Are those substantiated in any way? | JStanton617 wrote: | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S23527... | | tl;dr - for the core phone/laptop F.lux use case, no, it isn't | substantiated | jader201 wrote: | If you have f.lux on a Windows machine and have Hue white/color | ambient lights, you can already do this: | | https://justgetflux.com/lighting/ | | I have this in my office setup, and it works well. Very nice, | especially this time of year when it gets dark while I'm still | working. | dbttdft wrote: | You could have saved all this trouble and just used time-tested | incandescent bulbs. No offense but this whole article and thread | is just getting each other to buy stupid crap. | | LED lights have far more problems than color temperature not | matching the circadian rhythm (if that's even a problem... I just | avoid blue light in general). 99% of them flicker, even without a | dimmer, and most probably have bad color rendering qualities | (CRI) too. In my experience, they're all too cold. They'll also | be too dim yet still give you that "getting blinded" feeling. I | visited a $7500 apartment and it was laughable how they included | LEDs that flicker at somewhere around 60-100Hz. I just stopped | using LEDs until I understand the market more, after already | wasting hundreds on failed attempts to find an acceptable LED. | For now sticking with warm color temperature incandescent bulbs, | which are almost perfect. I don't need to raise the color | temperature in the day. | lepetitpedre wrote: | Lights and hub from Ikea anyone? Super easy and the app works | great for this. | bryanmgreen wrote: | Excellent. | | I wish that Hue and LIFX would also make a physical adjustment | switch/knob for color temperature. | wdewind wrote: | I wished this too, and got close enough by buying the Hue | remote switches: | | https://www.philips-hue.com/en-us/p/hue-dimmer-switch--lates... | | It turns out there are really only 3-4 different temperatures I | use normally, and this allows you to switch between them. I | also use the Hue timers so I frankly don't need to use this | that often, but it's nice to be able to switch between both | scenes and brightness levels without pulling out my phone | (edit: and more importantly so people who aren't me can control | the lights if they need). | | It's not a perfect solution: there are still some annoyances | with people forgetting to leave the main switch on and only use | the mounted remote, but overall I am very happy with this | system. | r2_pilot wrote: | >It's not a perfect solution: there are still some annoyances | with people forgetting to leave the main switch on | | I use light switch covers. They just screw on over the | switch, and have one side open so you can manually manipulate | it if you want, but it prevents accidental state changes. | mgraczyk wrote: | In San Francisco you can spot some of these at night. Look at the | tall buildings, some of the windows are illuminated with a deep | red. | prmoustache wrote: | Who needs to turn the lights on to go to the bathroom in a | city? My bathroom don't have shades on the windows and I get | enough light from the moon reflection and the street lights to | do all I need to do in a bathroom in the middle of the night. | It is not like I will put on contact lenses or look for a | specific skincare product in the middle of the night. | | I can understand night being dark when you live in the middle | of nowhere. In the city not so much. | mgraczyk wrote: | Not sure where you got bathroom from. The people I know who | have this generally do their entire apartment. | | Also it gets dark here at like 5:30 | prmoustache wrote: | Who would put deep red lights at 5:30? Now I am even more | confused. | m4jor wrote: | I mean if your bathroom windows were on the other side of the | house or had no street lights shining into them, you wouldn't | be able to see... | prmoustache wrote: | I've never seen any room with window in a city where it was | completely dark during the night unless the window was | closed with shutters and curtains. Even during new moon | with a cloudy sky there is usually so much light pollution | that it is never completely dark. | ceefan wrote: | If you would like to achieve this based on simple dimming, or | even better, by using smart switches instead of smart bulbs, take | a look at NASA spinoff Bios Lighting. | | Here's their A19 (normal bulb) specsheet: | https://bioslighting.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/BIOS_A19... | | There is also a spotlight-style BR30: | https://bioslighting.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/BIOS_BR-... ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-11-07 23:00 UTC)