[HN Gopher] Crypto.com Halts Solana USDC and USDT Withdrawals
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       Crypto.com Halts Solana USDC and USDT Withdrawals
        
       Author : Lionga
       Score  : 135 points
       Date   : 2022-11-09 20:47 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.coindesk.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.coindesk.com)
        
       | nailer wrote:
       | A2K mentioned this in his live a few mins ago but FTX had less
       | than 5% of Sol. Fundamentals remain solid.
        
         | danrocks wrote:
         | It's fundamentally unsound.
        
         | gitfan86 wrote:
         | What? All of crypto is Fundamentally based on more money coming
         | into the ecosystem. It is all cashflow negative.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | Crypto doesn't have fundamentals.
        
             | nailer wrote:
             | Every asset class does. USD has the US military, gold has
             | difficulty of mining, crypto has maths, watches have
             | complexity of their construction and are a lightweight
             | store of value, art has emotional resonance.
        
               | benj111 wrote:
               | Difficulty of mining is a supply side constraint.it
               | doesn't give gold its value.
               | 
               | Gold has long been prized because it doesn't corrode, and
               | makes nice jewelry. There's also industrial applications.
               | 
               | Who admires the maths of their bitcoin? They don't, it's
               | just a supply constraint. Constraining the supply of
               | something that has no value doesn't make it worth
               | something though.
               | 
               | Likewise you probably need a military to defend your
               | country from those who might invade and replace the
               | currency, but that doesn't impart value.
        
               | lizknope wrote:
               | https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/aluminum-
               | common...
               | 
               | Aluminum used to be more valuable than gold. Then we
               | discovered cheaper ways of processing the ore. Aluminum
               | is so cheap now that people throw away aluminum cans
               | everyday (hopefully in the recycling bin)
               | 
               | People rarely throw away gold like that although some
               | does get tossed in electronic devices. If we found a way
               | to decrease the cost of gold mining by 1000X then maybe
               | people would throw it away like aluminum.
        
               | benj111 wrote:
               | If you have one thing then the price should be whatever
               | the highest bidder is willing to pay, if you have a
               | million things, it's whatever the the millionth highest
               | bidder is willing to pay. Thus the more of a thing you
               | make, the less valuable each thing is. This works,
               | because the total value of $things sold increases.
               | 
               | But that 1, or those million people buying the thing have
               | to be willing to pay something.
               | 
               | An aol disc isn't worth anything, even now that they are
               | probably exceedingly rare (I'll bet someone's flogging
               | them on ebay though) because still no one wants them.
               | 
               | Aluminium and gold have fundamentals because they have a
               | use. Some random coin, not so much, not even as a
               | coaster.
        
               | tschwimmer wrote:
               | You folks are arguing past each other. As it turns out,
               | the price of something is determined by two factors:
               | Supply and Demand. Imbalances in supply and demand cause
               | changes in price.
        
         | wzy wrote:
         | "Fundamentals remain solid."
         | 
         | Can you imagine how many times that exact phrase was thrown at
         | new investors to FTX or any other such crypto?
        
           | nailer wrote:
           | FTXs terms didn't allow them to use customer's money as
           | deployable capital. That's SBF committing fraud and doesn't
           | change the low transaction costs and speed of the network,
           | much like madoff didn't make the concept of cash worthless.
        
       | adrr wrote:
       | Why both deposits and withdrawals? They risk spooking their
       | customers by preventing withdrawals. If you wanted to mitigate
       | risk, wouldn't you just prevent deposits/buys?
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | Trying to prevent a bank run, most likely. And/or they don't
         | have the cash to survive even a small selloff.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | zmaurelius wrote:
       | At the end of day, this entire fiasco really drives home the
       | point if its not your keys its not your coins. Shady
       | exchanges/banks can always collapse and take your entire
       | portfolio with it, but if you have a securely backed up wallet,
       | then your coins will be untouchable no matter what kind of shady
       | shenanigans goes down in the wider cryptocurrency landscape.
        
         | hvs wrote:
         | So the lesson to learn from all of this is "stuff your money
         | under your mattress otherwise it's not safe"?
         | 
         | What a brave new world crypto is bringing us.
        
         | btown wrote:
         | It's your keys, and your coins, and most importantly your
         | _initial and continuous due diligence_... and not just on the
         | asset itself, but on the possible motivations of any asset
         | holder with a sufficient stake to meaningfully affect the
         | price.
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | Should have done you initial and continuous don't diligence.
        
         | camjw wrote:
         | Sure, you still have your coins, but who cares if they're
         | worthless?
         | 
         | I'm not sure "not your keys, not your wallet" is really the
         | message to take away from ~Celcius~ ~Terra~ ~TAC~ FTX.
        
           | edwnj wrote:
           | Celsius = centralised, terra = centralised, FTX =
           | centralised...
           | 
           | The point is stop trusting centralised wolf in sheeps
           | clothing.. same goes for ethereum with Proof Of Stake.. ur
           | just reinventing central banking (but private)..
           | 
           | The only truly decentralised coin is bitcoin..
        
             | voldacar wrote:
             | Monero is a superior currency to btc in every way.
        
               | tromp wrote:
               | It's not superior; it just makes different tradeoffs [1].
               | 
               | [1] https://phyro.github.io/grinvestigation/why_grin.html
        
               | hi5eyes wrote:
               | weird how the only currency dnms use is monero, meanwhile
               | everyone knows what grin is winkwink
        
             | methodical wrote:
             | and bitcoin has exorbitant transaction fees, slow
             | transaction times, massive power usage for relatively
             | little throughput, etc., etc.
             | 
             | time to end the crypto social experiment and go back to
             | using the traditional banking system which has safeguards
             | in place to prevent people from being continuously taken
             | advantage of. oh wait, nobody was really using crypto for
             | anything other than a FOMO investment anyways
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | Bitcoin transaction fees are ~5 cents right now.
               | 
               | Granted it's still slow...
        
               | machina_ex_deus wrote:
               | By taken advantage of, you mean like becoming a debt
               | slave paying off mortgage on overvalued house because of
               | a housing bubble they blew out of proportion yet nobody
               | was held accountable for?
        
               | methodical wrote:
               | No- by taken advantage of I mean like putting your life
               | savings into a 20% APR yield crypto savings account and
               | getting rugpulled the next week. Funny how you reference
               | being taken advantage of in standard financial
               | institutions as having debt but it is just as easy if not
               | easier to take out loans in the crypto space that people
               | have no chance in hell of paying off. Regardless, that's
               | unrelated to what I was talking about, which was about
               | people getting conned day in and day out in the crypto
               | space. At the very least, this is minimized in the
               | regular financial market which has safeguards in place to
               | protect consumers. Is this system perfect? No. Is it 100x
               | better and safer than the current state of crypto because
               | of lessons of the past and the laws put in place because
               | of them? Yes.
               | 
               | If you believe that crypto is in any regard better than
               | the traditional banking system (which it seems you do),
               | please state those claims explicitly.
        
             | SantalBlush wrote:
             | The people using those exchanges largely don't care about
             | the alleged original use case for crypto. They're just
             | trying to get rich.
        
             | xyzzy4747 wrote:
             | >The only truly decentralised coin is bitcoin..
             | 
             | And Monero IMO
        
             | rezistik wrote:
             | Yeah but the collapse of those exchanges drove down the
             | price of the coins. Even if its your keys and your coins
             | those coins become worth less money than they were before.
        
           | zmaurelius wrote:
           | I think people are too hyper focused on the price aspect of
           | cryptocurrencies. The experiment that is Bitcoin shows that
           | people do not need to rely on a monetary system where a cabal
           | of rich and powerful individuals can arbitrarily modify the
           | money supply without any regard to all the participants in
           | that monetary system.
           | 
           | The genie is already out of the bottle and there is no way to
           | put it back. There will always be those especially in the
           | younger generations that want something better than the
           | current system. Bitcoin shows that you can have a completely
           | transparent monetary system based on code that is available
           | to be audited by anyone. Bitcoin may or may not survive, but
           | the idea behind it will.
        
             | twblalock wrote:
             | What this has also shown is that most people (literally
             | almost everyone) are better off relying on the traditional
             | financial system.
        
             | camjw wrote:
             | > There will always be those especially in the younger
             | generations that want something better than the current
             | system.
             | 
             | Sure, this isn't it though.
        
             | AlexandrB wrote:
             | > The experiment that is Bitcoin shows that people do not
             | need to rely on a monetary system where a cabal of rich and
             | powerful individuals can arbitrarily modify the money
             | supply without any regard to all the participants in that
             | monetary system.
             | 
             | I don't get it. How does this description fail to encompass
             | the likes of SBF, CZ, or Do Kwon? And while they didn't
             | modify the money _supply_ (although UDT kinda did), their
             | actions had a strong impact on the _value_ of money. So
             | anyone holding coins in their own wallets still got screwed
             | by their actions.
        
               | zmaurelius wrote:
               | Bitcoin only solves the problem of manipulation of the
               | underlying money supply. It does not solve the problem of
               | fraud and scams. Maybe one day we can also solve that
               | problem with exchanges existing only as smart contracts,
               | but with exchanges that are not completely transparent
               | you always run into the risk of getting defrauded because
               | you don't really know what's going on under the hood.
        
             | jcranmer wrote:
             | > The experiment that is Bitcoin shows that people do not
             | need to rely on a monetary system where a cabal of rich and
             | powerful individuals can arbitrarily modify the money
             | supply without any regard to all the participants in that
             | monetary system.
             | 
             | Is this really true, given that the largest currency pair
             | of Bitcoin is with USDT, which is alleged to have been
             | arbitrarily created at whim to pump up the price of
             | Bitcoin?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | this_steve_j wrote:
             | Let's not forget the frictionless enablement of spectacular
             | ransomware enterprises, and the glorious enrichment of
             | dangerous actors with stolen funds. It's a small price to
             | pay for all this... freedom?
        
               | zmaurelius wrote:
               | It also enabled about $60+ million dollars to be donated
               | to Ukraine and that's just one data point. Whether these
               | other problems are a small price to pay will depend on
               | who you are talking to. To the Ukrainians that benefited
               | from these donations and to those that have food, weapons
               | and shelter from these donations, it is most likely a
               | small price to pay.
               | 
               | Perhaps a portion of these donations could have come from
               | other sources if cryptocurrencies did not exist, but
               | there isn't really a good way to quantify that, so I
               | won't go into that discussion.
        
         | kuratkull wrote:
         | You have the coins, but the current state of affairs means they
         | are not worth anything any more.
        
           | secondcoming wrote:
           | To be fair, I have stocks that are not far off that scenario!
        
         | mexicanandre wrote:
         | The whole crypto game is dead without these exchanges.
         | 
         | To hold your own keys etc is just too complicated.
         | 
         | I dont want to put 100k onto a USB drive where I may forget the
         | PW to.
         | 
         | Crypto is just not going to hit mainstream if you cant get
         | exchanges "banks" to stop selfimploding.
        
         | hartator wrote:
         | The thing is non-centralized cryptos never worked as a
         | currency.
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | Or better yet, stay away from crypto completely.
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | What good are the keys to something worthless?
        
       | woeirua wrote:
       | We're starting to see the cascade of exchange failures, just like
       | we saw in 2008 with the banks during the GFC. The exchanges all
       | made loans to one another in order to backstop their customer's
       | assets. Now that the value of those loans are evaporating the
       | entire system is going to come crashing down all at once. This is
       | a systemic crisis, and there is no white knight to save it.
        
         | dist1ll wrote:
         | There's a beautiful difference. Unlike in 2008, today
         | 
         | - I can transact efficiently and safely without a bank account.
         | This is currently not possible in traditional finance
         | 
         | - Subsequently, none of my assets are locked. I have never
         | stored assets in an exchange, and have no need to do so.
         | 
         | - Exchanges can't ask daddy government to mint coins for a
         | bailout.
         | 
         | Tl;dr: exchanges and banks who think they can get away with
         | being overleveraged, doing unbacked derivatives trading,
         | lending without locates etc. are in for a bitter surprise.
         | Crypto can't be gamed so easily and it shows.
        
           | woeirua wrote:
           | Owning coins that can't be exchanged for anything is kind of
           | a pointless endeavor, is it not?
           | 
           | The value of most coins is going to zero as a result of this.
           | Crypto is going to be a frigid wasteland after this for quite
           | a while.
        
             | dist1ll wrote:
             | There are tons of vendors I actively use that accept
             | crypto. Not as much as I'd like, but hardly no one.
             | 
             | But yeah, you're right, a currency nobody uses is obviously
             | worthless. I'm attempting to drive adoption so that they
             | CAN be exchanged for goods and services.
        
           | machina_ex_deus wrote:
           | You sound just like one of those house owners with a fat
           | mortgage on the eve of 2008.
           | 
           | When you buy an asset from heavily leveraged market you get
           | high risk even when you don't use leverage yourself.
        
             | dist1ll wrote:
             | The crypto I buy is not leveraged, it's sitting in my
             | wallet - unlike IOUs, stocks and derivatives.
             | 
             | In crypto, leverage exists solely because of people who
             | _aren 't_ doing self-custody and DeFi. They brought this
             | upon themselves.
        
               | BolexNOLA wrote:
               | Not going to do you a whole lot of good when you can't
               | convert that into fiat. The vast majority of cryptos are
               | useless for actually paying for anything and the vast
               | majority of businesses still don't except them. So unless
               | you are basically only using and holding BTC (which has a
               | relatively small market of goods that can actually be
               | purchased with it on a daily basis), I'm not really sure
               | what good that crypto is doing for you other than sitting
               | around as a speculative asset which will need to be
               | converted via an exchange.
        
           | twblalock wrote:
           | The problem is, if these exchanges collapse, the value of
           | that crypto you have will drop significantly. So yes, you
           | still have your crypto assets, but there is a real chance
           | they could end up being worthless.
           | 
           | Even if you don't use exchanges, you are still exposed to
           | their failure because they are major players in the market
           | that determines the value of the cryptocurrencies. When major
           | players in a market go bust, it's unlikely that any of the
           | other market participants will end up unscathed.
           | 
           | Given that crypto value is based solely on what other people
           | are willing to pay for it, it really could go to zero. It
           | probably won't go all the way to zero, but I'd still expect a
           | significant drop.
        
             | dist1ll wrote:
             | This indicates that the value was propped up by market
             | manipulation. I have no problem with a crash like this, as
             | I have no exposure to centralized * exchanges.
             | 
             | I also don't have illusions about price action. I don't
             | invest into crypto to make a quick buck. I invest because I
             | fundamentally oppose traditional finance.
        
               | twblalock wrote:
               | Really, no exposure to centralized finance? You only use
               | crypto to pay your rent and buy your groceries and your
               | clothing? Your employer pays you in crypto?
        
               | dist1ll wrote:
               | My bad, I meant centralized exchanges, not finance.
               | Edited my comment.
               | 
               | > You only use crypto to pay your rent and buy your
               | groceries and your clothing? Your employer pays you in
               | crypto?
               | 
               | Oh how I wish that was true.
        
       | ricardobayes wrote:
       | I'm just spitballing, but we don't yet know the full effects of
       | FTX folding. We don't know who holds what where.
        
         | FollowingTheDao wrote:
         | I would say bitcoin crashing 12.5% today is one effect.
        
           | stephc_int13 wrote:
           | The day is not over yet. I wish I had popcorn.
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | 12% isn't an unusual day for cryptocurrency.
             | 
             | 80% is newsworthy.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jti107 wrote:
       | there better not be any government bailouts...people/companies
       | need to accept the risks/rewards for using DeFi
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | And there goes 16k.
       | 
       | We're seeing the dominoes fall before our eyes.
       | 
       | crazy
        
         | AznHisoka wrote:
         | Thats still too high.
         | 
         | What is fascinating is that The S&P 500 is up around 10% since
         | Feb 2020 (pre covid) while BTC is up 50% since.
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | The S&P 500 is obviously superior even though BTC did well
           | pre-2013. BTC is more like a commodity than an equity, so the
           | long-term returns are expected to be worse compared to index
           | funds.
        
         | matai_kolila wrote:
         | Nov 13th, 2020 was around when BTC was last at this price.
         | 
         | What a wild ride it's been.
        
         | eddsh1994 wrote:
         | I didn't buy it at PS400 once because it had fallen so much
         | from PS1,000. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes up again when
         | people look to alternative sources of income to offset
         | inflation.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | Negative sum games need new suckers to prop up returns. I
           | doubt there is that many people willing to jump in that
           | haven't already been burned.
        
           | Animatronio wrote:
           | Yeah, smart move - lose 15% a day, rather than 9% a year
           | through inflation.
        
           | SantalBlush wrote:
           | People bought cryptocoins in 2021 to "offset inflation". That
           | did not go well for them.
           | 
           | I think we can safely put the claims about crypto offsetting
           | inflation to rest.
        
       | TSiege wrote:
       | "Solana's native SOL token suffered as a result of FTX's
       | collapse, dropping over 40% on Wednesday at a price of $14.37.
       | This is 92% below its price from a year ago."
       | 
       | I looked it up and it was trading for $230.23 on Nov 9, 2021. As
       | of posting this comment it's at $13.16
        
         | TechBro8615 wrote:
         | Back in the day, SOL used to stand for "shit outta luck"
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | Good thing I invested heavily in ITYS.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | Apparently, it still does.
        
             | largepeepee wrote:
             | Seeing your name greyed out within a few mins, guess you
             | hit a nerve with the HN SOL peeps.
        
           | evronm wrote:
           | What's old is new again. I think this qualifies as poetic
           | justice?
        
       | bittytitty wrote:
       | Bitcoin and it's technology isn't going anywhere. The rest of the
       | world is too invested in it for it to disappear. Just wait it
       | out. It will be fine.
       | 
       | "Many shall be restored that now are fallen and many shall fall
       | that now are in honor" -Horace
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | Another crypto crash? I'm surprised anyone would have serious
       | money still in crypto after the last megacrash, which came after
       | the previous crypto crash.
        
         | throwup wrote:
         | Nothing but crashes. Bitcoin crashed to $2 in 2011, then it
         | crashed to $250 in 2015, then it crashed to $3000 in 2019, and
         | now it's crashed again to $15000. Smart money knows to stay
         | away and avoid the crashes.
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | You didn't note the bitcoin high water mark was nearly
           | exactly one year ago at $64,400, versus today at $15,696.
        
           | binkHN wrote:
           | So, future crash to $75000 in 2026?
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | Just because your cryptocurrency just lost 90% of its value
           | today, doesn't mean it can't also lose 90% of its value
           | tomorrow too.
        
           | woodruffw wrote:
           | This is a joke, but it also misses the point: a volatile
           | asset doesn't have to crash to any particular baseline. It
           | only has to crash below the stake price for its investors.
        
             | throwup wrote:
             | You're talking about MVRV (Market Value to Realized Value).
             | If it's below 1, it means the average investor is carrying
             | a loss, and > 1 means carrying profit. Historically every
             | halving it has spent some time below 1, and we are right on
             | schedule.
             | 
             | https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-mvrv-ratio/
        
           | TylerE wrote:
           | This time it's different. There's no giant pool of FOMOing
           | suckers to drive the next wave.
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | The pyramid found its base and can't expand into any more
             | gullible markets.
        
         | yieldcrv wrote:
         | because everyone following the best practices is unscathed.
         | 
         | everyone had a choice to just never touch TerraLuna.
         | 
         | everyone had a choice to not keep their funds on exchanges.
         | 
         | I'll give some sympathy to custodial smart contracts being
         | drained and advertised as non-custodial, a legal distinction
         | that has little practical distinction for the user except
         | unlimited amounts and no permission needed to use. But you
         | didn't have to use those either.
         | 
         | and overcollateralized stablecoins type fiat are still fine
         | (for now)
         | 
         | and overcollateralized stablecoins type crypto are still fine
         | with redemptions functioning smoothly through pretty amazing
         | stress tests
         | 
         | other kinds of stablecoins are the ones that actually have
         | implosions and make the news, with the notable exception and
         | danger of Tether which still have passed every stress test
         | despite such a large attack surface being consistently attacked
         | by state actors very publicly
         | 
         | regardless, it has been entirely possible to have stable value
         | in crypto the whole time, and in fact that's where a majority
         | of the capital is, far beyond any hacks, exploits and exchange
         | implosions. overcollateralized stablecoins are still $120bn and
         | has been a steady amount for the past year. redemptions go well
         | when desired, people just don't desire.
         | 
         | and then for the people that actually have the risk profile for
         | volatile assets and self-custody those assets? they're fine
         | too. let the VC and bankruptcy trustees fire-sale, let
         | everything trade for another 90% discount, that's not
         | controversial, commodities trade like that, digital commodities
         | are trading similarly.
        
           | machina_ex_deus wrote:
           | You're cute. In the end of the day this entire shenanigan is
           | a game of musical chairs and as every chair is taken out, you
           | should be more anxious to sit down quickly before the music
           | stops. The actual details hardly matter, this is a game
           | played only by investors, and money is slowly draining.
           | Nobody is inserting new chairs into your musical game, only
           | new participants with their own chairs. Unlike musical
           | chairs, you can leave right now.
        
             | yieldcrv wrote:
             | > The actual details hardly matter, this is a game played
             | only by investors, and money is slowly draining.
             | 
             | and that's not controversial, I'm perfectly fine with that
             | and everyone in the space should be just as objective about
             | their risk profile. We both agree that any other sales
             | pitch for crypto was grifter bingo.
             | 
             | I don't consider this platform for investors to be perfect
             | yet, for example I don't consider any stablecoin
             | overcollateralized by fiat to be 'good' and I don't
             | consider any of the stablecoins overcollateralized by
             | crypto to be great yet, there is a lot to build and a lot
             | of value to extract building.
        
           | twblalock wrote:
           | > regardless, it has been entirely possible to have stable
           | value in crypto the whole time
           | 
           | Where? Which crypto investments would have resulted in that
           | during the "whole time"? Or even just the last few years?
        
       | olliej wrote:
       | Traditionally this foreshadows an exchange going bust, is that
       | what is happening here?
        
         | _3u10 wrote:
         | The exchange is going bust. Well the coin is going bust unable
         | to maintain the peg. Think the end of Bretonwoods but for
         | crypto.
         | 
         | I've never understood stablecoins it's as dumb as a USD ETF
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | LegitShady wrote:
           | understanding stablecoins is really simple.
           | 
           | "how do i convert crypto assets into USD without triggering a
           | taxable event?"
           | 
           | the answer was create a stablecoin where you for sure have $1
           | for each coin so you can always exchange your crypto for
           | dollars.
           | 
           | the problem is all these shady crypto finance people are busy
           | making money off of stablecoins and hoping nobody catches
           | them without enough cash on hand since they invested the USD
           | into assets instead of just holding cash, or when the value
           | went up they minted more stablecoin to sell off and now that
           | the price of the stablecoin is down they don't have the
           | ability to cover their liabilities.
           | 
           | The basic idea to protect against taxes, the extended idea is
           | to enrich every grifter around.
        
             | jayp wrote:
             | When you sell stock A and buy stock B, if you had capital
             | gains on stock A, it is a taxable event.
             | 
             | Crypto is the same.
             | 
             | Why do you think converting from BTC to USDT is not a
             | taxable event?
        
               | WalterSear wrote:
               | When you sold stock A, you got dollars for it.
        
               | harambae wrote:
               | But when each Velodyne Lidar share is exchanged for
               | 0.8204 shares of Ouster (in the near future), it won't be
               | a taxable event.
        
               | freeplay wrote:
               | Your stock example is not what was described though.
               | 
               | You're not selling Bitcoin and then buying USDT. You're
               | buying USDT with Bitcoin.
               | 
               | With your stock example, you can't buy shares of Apple
               | stock using your Google stock. It has to go to fiat first
               | which is a taxable event.
        
               | from wrote:
               | Your interpretation of the law was potentially correct
               | before the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (this was debated but
               | was never taken to court) but is now not correct and
               | crypto-crypto swaps are taxable and you use the dollar
               | value as reference price. This may not be the case in
               | other countries.
        
               | drfuchs wrote:
               | And swapping BTC for USDT still a taxable event. Just as
               | if I bartered my Apple stock for some Google stock of
               | yours: for both of us, there's a capital gain or loss,
               | and it's a taxable event. You don't have to go through
               | actual cash money for it to be a taxable event.
               | 
               | https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/OC-Barteringandtrading-
               | eacht...
        
             | dragonwriter wrote:
             | > "how do i convert crypto assets into USD without
             | triggering a taxable event?"
             | 
             | You don't: "Taxable gain or loss may result from
             | transactions including, but not limited to: [...] Exchange
             | or trade of one digital asset for another digital asset."
             | [0]
             | 
             | You can't hack around taxable events by avoiding exchange
             | into fiat.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-
             | taxpayers/freq...
        
               | LegitShady wrote:
               | but you're trading $100 worth of Crypto A into $100 worth
               | of USDT or whatever other 'stablecoin' ostensibly backed
               | dollar for dollar with USD, thus there are no gains but
               | you still ostensibly have 'converted' Crypto A to the
               | closest thing you can convert it to that isn't actual
               | USD.
               | 
               | That's the purpose. If you sell a crypto for USD you may
               | get taxed. If you convert it to equal amounts of a
               | different crypto there are no gains and no tax.
        
         | fragmede wrote:
         | the price of Solana is going to crater due to a massive
         | increase in supply*, and crypto.com is hedging their bets.
         | 
         | * https://u.today/320-million-in-solana-will-hit-market-
         | in-24-...*
        
           | tell3 wrote:
           | USDC and USDT prices have nothing to do with the SOL price
        
         | FollowingTheDao wrote:
         | Not just an exchange, all of bitcoin.
        
           | CyberDildonics wrote:
           | What do you mean by "all of bitcoin" ? It is working at its
           | steady transaction rate of a few kilobytes per second like it
           | always has.
        
         | phphphphp wrote:
         | Crypto.com are not long for this world but I don't think this
         | is their demise, rather, this is specifically the Solana
         | blockchain, which is... well, it's not a traditional
         | blockchain. More a reflection on Solana (and it's vulnerability
         | to the demise of FTX) than Crypto.com.
        
           | clarkeni wrote:
           | It's absolutely more of a reflection on crypto.com than the
           | solana blockchain (which is functioning normally).
        
           | harambae wrote:
           | > More a reflection on Solana (and it's vulnerability to the
           | demise of FTX) than Crypto.com.
           | 
           | Citation definitely needed. I'd say the opposite. From a few
           | days ago... https://decrypt.co/113632/google-cloud-just-
           | became-a-solana-...
        
         | traveler01 wrote:
         | Not exactly, since it's a very specific suspension.
        
       | tell3 wrote:
       | Idgi, the Solana network functions normal, and SOL is not
       | intimately tied to FTX. They only reason they would do this imo,
       | is if Crypto.com itself has problems (they want to slow
       | withdrawals?). What am I missing here?
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | _" More than 18 million coins worth approximately $320 million
         | will hit the cryptocurrency market in the next 24 hours after
         | they are released from staking. ... In addition to the
         | aforementioned 18 million SOL, the market should be ready for a
         | 1.7 million Solend whale liquidation; the whale borrowed 30
         | million USDC against his two million SOL collateral. A total of
         | 96.7% of his loan is backed by the cryptocurrency that is
         | rapidly losing value on the market right now. Technically,
         | liquidation has been triggered already, and the borrow
         | utilization greatly exceeded the liquidation threshold by more
         | than 50%..."_[1]
         | 
         | And that's just stuff that's publicly known.
         | 
         | [1] https://u.today/320-million-in-solana-will-hit-market-
         | in-24-...
        
           | tell3 wrote:
           | That's not really related.
        
         | davidcbc wrote:
         | The answer to your question is in your post
        
       | booleandilemma wrote:
       | I'm assuming the government will just bail out everyone who loses
       | money through crypto with my tax dollars. It'll be fine, nothing
       | to worry about.
        
       | FollowingTheDao wrote:
       | I have a prediction for all of you here:
       | 
       | Bitcoin at 1000 by March 1st.
        
         | CyberDildonics wrote:
         | Time to prove everyone how smart you are and make lots of money
         | at the same time.
         | 
         | https://www.investopedia.com/news/short-bitcoin/
        
           | low_tech_love wrote:
           | Oh man I wish I had the balls to do it.
        
         | eddsh1994 wrote:
         | I'd take that bet!
        
           | xiphias2 wrote:
           | You can on the CFTC futures market
        
         | woeirua wrote:
         | I'll one up you: Bitcoin at zero by March 1st. This crash is
         | going to take down USDT/Binance and the entire ecosystem around
         | it.
        
         | eloff wrote:
         | I highly doubt it, but it's not impossible. Bitcoin doesn't
         | really have any intrinsic value to provide a floor for the
         | price. It's all technicals, all perception.
        
       | guelo wrote:
       | When FTX and Crypto.com have to give up their sports arena naming
       | rights it will be great PR to the population at large to stay
       | away from crypto.
        
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