[HN Gopher] Crypto.com Halts Solana USDC and USDT Withdrawals ___________________________________________________________________ Crypto.com Halts Solana USDC and USDT Withdrawals Author : Lionga Score : 135 points Date : 2022-11-09 20:47 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.coindesk.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.coindesk.com) | nailer wrote: | A2K mentioned this in his live a few mins ago but FTX had less | than 5% of Sol. Fundamentals remain solid. | danrocks wrote: | It's fundamentally unsound. | gitfan86 wrote: | What? All of crypto is Fundamentally based on more money coming | into the ecosystem. It is all cashflow negative. | Animats wrote: | Crypto doesn't have fundamentals. | nailer wrote: | Every asset class does. USD has the US military, gold has | difficulty of mining, crypto has maths, watches have | complexity of their construction and are a lightweight | store of value, art has emotional resonance. | benj111 wrote: | Difficulty of mining is a supply side constraint.it | doesn't give gold its value. | | Gold has long been prized because it doesn't corrode, and | makes nice jewelry. There's also industrial applications. | | Who admires the maths of their bitcoin? They don't, it's | just a supply constraint. Constraining the supply of | something that has no value doesn't make it worth | something though. | | Likewise you probably need a military to defend your | country from those who might invade and replace the | currency, but that doesn't impart value. | lizknope wrote: | https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/aluminum- | common... | | Aluminum used to be more valuable than gold. Then we | discovered cheaper ways of processing the ore. Aluminum | is so cheap now that people throw away aluminum cans | everyday (hopefully in the recycling bin) | | People rarely throw away gold like that although some | does get tossed in electronic devices. If we found a way | to decrease the cost of gold mining by 1000X then maybe | people would throw it away like aluminum. | benj111 wrote: | If you have one thing then the price should be whatever | the highest bidder is willing to pay, if you have a | million things, it's whatever the the millionth highest | bidder is willing to pay. Thus the more of a thing you | make, the less valuable each thing is. This works, | because the total value of $things sold increases. | | But that 1, or those million people buying the thing have | to be willing to pay something. | | An aol disc isn't worth anything, even now that they are | probably exceedingly rare (I'll bet someone's flogging | them on ebay though) because still no one wants them. | | Aluminium and gold have fundamentals because they have a | use. Some random coin, not so much, not even as a | coaster. | tschwimmer wrote: | You folks are arguing past each other. As it turns out, | the price of something is determined by two factors: | Supply and Demand. Imbalances in supply and demand cause | changes in price. | wzy wrote: | "Fundamentals remain solid." | | Can you imagine how many times that exact phrase was thrown at | new investors to FTX or any other such crypto? | nailer wrote: | FTXs terms didn't allow them to use customer's money as | deployable capital. That's SBF committing fraud and doesn't | change the low transaction costs and speed of the network, | much like madoff didn't make the concept of cash worthless. | adrr wrote: | Why both deposits and withdrawals? They risk spooking their | customers by preventing withdrawals. If you wanted to mitigate | risk, wouldn't you just prevent deposits/buys? | geerlingguy wrote: | Trying to prevent a bank run, most likely. And/or they don't | have the cash to survive even a small selloff. | [deleted] | zmaurelius wrote: | At the end of day, this entire fiasco really drives home the | point if its not your keys its not your coins. Shady | exchanges/banks can always collapse and take your entire | portfolio with it, but if you have a securely backed up wallet, | then your coins will be untouchable no matter what kind of shady | shenanigans goes down in the wider cryptocurrency landscape. | hvs wrote: | So the lesson to learn from all of this is "stuff your money | under your mattress otherwise it's not safe"? | | What a brave new world crypto is bringing us. | btown wrote: | It's your keys, and your coins, and most importantly your | _initial and continuous due diligence_... and not just on the | asset itself, but on the possible motivations of any asset | holder with a sufficient stake to meaningfully affect the | price. | DonHopkins wrote: | Should have done you initial and continuous don't diligence. | camjw wrote: | Sure, you still have your coins, but who cares if they're | worthless? | | I'm not sure "not your keys, not your wallet" is really the | message to take away from ~Celcius~ ~Terra~ ~TAC~ FTX. | edwnj wrote: | Celsius = centralised, terra = centralised, FTX = | centralised... | | The point is stop trusting centralised wolf in sheeps | clothing.. same goes for ethereum with Proof Of Stake.. ur | just reinventing central banking (but private).. | | The only truly decentralised coin is bitcoin.. | voldacar wrote: | Monero is a superior currency to btc in every way. | tromp wrote: | It's not superior; it just makes different tradeoffs [1]. | | [1] https://phyro.github.io/grinvestigation/why_grin.html | hi5eyes wrote: | weird how the only currency dnms use is monero, meanwhile | everyone knows what grin is winkwink | methodical wrote: | and bitcoin has exorbitant transaction fees, slow | transaction times, massive power usage for relatively | little throughput, etc., etc. | | time to end the crypto social experiment and go back to | using the traditional banking system which has safeguards | in place to prevent people from being continuously taken | advantage of. oh wait, nobody was really using crypto for | anything other than a FOMO investment anyways | londons_explore wrote: | Bitcoin transaction fees are ~5 cents right now. | | Granted it's still slow... | machina_ex_deus wrote: | By taken advantage of, you mean like becoming a debt | slave paying off mortgage on overvalued house because of | a housing bubble they blew out of proportion yet nobody | was held accountable for? | methodical wrote: | No- by taken advantage of I mean like putting your life | savings into a 20% APR yield crypto savings account and | getting rugpulled the next week. Funny how you reference | being taken advantage of in standard financial | institutions as having debt but it is just as easy if not | easier to take out loans in the crypto space that people | have no chance in hell of paying off. Regardless, that's | unrelated to what I was talking about, which was about | people getting conned day in and day out in the crypto | space. At the very least, this is minimized in the | regular financial market which has safeguards in place to | protect consumers. Is this system perfect? No. Is it 100x | better and safer than the current state of crypto because | of lessons of the past and the laws put in place because | of them? Yes. | | If you believe that crypto is in any regard better than | the traditional banking system (which it seems you do), | please state those claims explicitly. | SantalBlush wrote: | The people using those exchanges largely don't care about | the alleged original use case for crypto. They're just | trying to get rich. | xyzzy4747 wrote: | >The only truly decentralised coin is bitcoin.. | | And Monero IMO | rezistik wrote: | Yeah but the collapse of those exchanges drove down the | price of the coins. Even if its your keys and your coins | those coins become worth less money than they were before. | zmaurelius wrote: | I think people are too hyper focused on the price aspect of | cryptocurrencies. The experiment that is Bitcoin shows that | people do not need to rely on a monetary system where a cabal | of rich and powerful individuals can arbitrarily modify the | money supply without any regard to all the participants in | that monetary system. | | The genie is already out of the bottle and there is no way to | put it back. There will always be those especially in the | younger generations that want something better than the | current system. Bitcoin shows that you can have a completely | transparent monetary system based on code that is available | to be audited by anyone. Bitcoin may or may not survive, but | the idea behind it will. | twblalock wrote: | What this has also shown is that most people (literally | almost everyone) are better off relying on the traditional | financial system. | camjw wrote: | > There will always be those especially in the younger | generations that want something better than the current | system. | | Sure, this isn't it though. | AlexandrB wrote: | > The experiment that is Bitcoin shows that people do not | need to rely on a monetary system where a cabal of rich and | powerful individuals can arbitrarily modify the money | supply without any regard to all the participants in that | monetary system. | | I don't get it. How does this description fail to encompass | the likes of SBF, CZ, or Do Kwon? And while they didn't | modify the money _supply_ (although UDT kinda did), their | actions had a strong impact on the _value_ of money. So | anyone holding coins in their own wallets still got screwed | by their actions. | zmaurelius wrote: | Bitcoin only solves the problem of manipulation of the | underlying money supply. It does not solve the problem of | fraud and scams. Maybe one day we can also solve that | problem with exchanges existing only as smart contracts, | but with exchanges that are not completely transparent | you always run into the risk of getting defrauded because | you don't really know what's going on under the hood. | jcranmer wrote: | > The experiment that is Bitcoin shows that people do not | need to rely on a monetary system where a cabal of rich and | powerful individuals can arbitrarily modify the money | supply without any regard to all the participants in that | monetary system. | | Is this really true, given that the largest currency pair | of Bitcoin is with USDT, which is alleged to have been | arbitrarily created at whim to pump up the price of | Bitcoin? | [deleted] | this_steve_j wrote: | Let's not forget the frictionless enablement of spectacular | ransomware enterprises, and the glorious enrichment of | dangerous actors with stolen funds. It's a small price to | pay for all this... freedom? | zmaurelius wrote: | It also enabled about $60+ million dollars to be donated | to Ukraine and that's just one data point. Whether these | other problems are a small price to pay will depend on | who you are talking to. To the Ukrainians that benefited | from these donations and to those that have food, weapons | and shelter from these donations, it is most likely a | small price to pay. | | Perhaps a portion of these donations could have come from | other sources if cryptocurrencies did not exist, but | there isn't really a good way to quantify that, so I | won't go into that discussion. | kuratkull wrote: | You have the coins, but the current state of affairs means they | are not worth anything any more. | secondcoming wrote: | To be fair, I have stocks that are not far off that scenario! | mexicanandre wrote: | The whole crypto game is dead without these exchanges. | | To hold your own keys etc is just too complicated. | | I dont want to put 100k onto a USB drive where I may forget the | PW to. | | Crypto is just not going to hit mainstream if you cant get | exchanges "banks" to stop selfimploding. | hartator wrote: | The thing is non-centralized cryptos never worked as a | currency. | paulpauper wrote: | Or better yet, stay away from crypto completely. | DonHopkins wrote: | What good are the keys to something worthless? | woeirua wrote: | We're starting to see the cascade of exchange failures, just like | we saw in 2008 with the banks during the GFC. The exchanges all | made loans to one another in order to backstop their customer's | assets. Now that the value of those loans are evaporating the | entire system is going to come crashing down all at once. This is | a systemic crisis, and there is no white knight to save it. | dist1ll wrote: | There's a beautiful difference. Unlike in 2008, today | | - I can transact efficiently and safely without a bank account. | This is currently not possible in traditional finance | | - Subsequently, none of my assets are locked. I have never | stored assets in an exchange, and have no need to do so. | | - Exchanges can't ask daddy government to mint coins for a | bailout. | | Tl;dr: exchanges and banks who think they can get away with | being overleveraged, doing unbacked derivatives trading, | lending without locates etc. are in for a bitter surprise. | Crypto can't be gamed so easily and it shows. | woeirua wrote: | Owning coins that can't be exchanged for anything is kind of | a pointless endeavor, is it not? | | The value of most coins is going to zero as a result of this. | Crypto is going to be a frigid wasteland after this for quite | a while. | dist1ll wrote: | There are tons of vendors I actively use that accept | crypto. Not as much as I'd like, but hardly no one. | | But yeah, you're right, a currency nobody uses is obviously | worthless. I'm attempting to drive adoption so that they | CAN be exchanged for goods and services. | machina_ex_deus wrote: | You sound just like one of those house owners with a fat | mortgage on the eve of 2008. | | When you buy an asset from heavily leveraged market you get | high risk even when you don't use leverage yourself. | dist1ll wrote: | The crypto I buy is not leveraged, it's sitting in my | wallet - unlike IOUs, stocks and derivatives. | | In crypto, leverage exists solely because of people who | _aren 't_ doing self-custody and DeFi. They brought this | upon themselves. | BolexNOLA wrote: | Not going to do you a whole lot of good when you can't | convert that into fiat. The vast majority of cryptos are | useless for actually paying for anything and the vast | majority of businesses still don't except them. So unless | you are basically only using and holding BTC (which has a | relatively small market of goods that can actually be | purchased with it on a daily basis), I'm not really sure | what good that crypto is doing for you other than sitting | around as a speculative asset which will need to be | converted via an exchange. | twblalock wrote: | The problem is, if these exchanges collapse, the value of | that crypto you have will drop significantly. So yes, you | still have your crypto assets, but there is a real chance | they could end up being worthless. | | Even if you don't use exchanges, you are still exposed to | their failure because they are major players in the market | that determines the value of the cryptocurrencies. When major | players in a market go bust, it's unlikely that any of the | other market participants will end up unscathed. | | Given that crypto value is based solely on what other people | are willing to pay for it, it really could go to zero. It | probably won't go all the way to zero, but I'd still expect a | significant drop. | dist1ll wrote: | This indicates that the value was propped up by market | manipulation. I have no problem with a crash like this, as | I have no exposure to centralized * exchanges. | | I also don't have illusions about price action. I don't | invest into crypto to make a quick buck. I invest because I | fundamentally oppose traditional finance. | twblalock wrote: | Really, no exposure to centralized finance? You only use | crypto to pay your rent and buy your groceries and your | clothing? Your employer pays you in crypto? | dist1ll wrote: | My bad, I meant centralized exchanges, not finance. | Edited my comment. | | > You only use crypto to pay your rent and buy your | groceries and your clothing? Your employer pays you in | crypto? | | Oh how I wish that was true. | ricardobayes wrote: | I'm just spitballing, but we don't yet know the full effects of | FTX folding. We don't know who holds what where. | FollowingTheDao wrote: | I would say bitcoin crashing 12.5% today is one effect. | stephc_int13 wrote: | The day is not over yet. I wish I had popcorn. | londons_explore wrote: | 12% isn't an unusual day for cryptocurrency. | | 80% is newsworthy. | [deleted] | [deleted] | jti107 wrote: | there better not be any government bailouts...people/companies | need to accept the risks/rewards for using DeFi | paulpauper wrote: | And there goes 16k. | | We're seeing the dominoes fall before our eyes. | | crazy | AznHisoka wrote: | Thats still too high. | | What is fascinating is that The S&P 500 is up around 10% since | Feb 2020 (pre covid) while BTC is up 50% since. | paulpauper wrote: | The S&P 500 is obviously superior even though BTC did well | pre-2013. BTC is more like a commodity than an equity, so the | long-term returns are expected to be worse compared to index | funds. | matai_kolila wrote: | Nov 13th, 2020 was around when BTC was last at this price. | | What a wild ride it's been. | eddsh1994 wrote: | I didn't buy it at PS400 once because it had fallen so much | from PS1,000. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes up again when | people look to alternative sources of income to offset | inflation. | Retric wrote: | Negative sum games need new suckers to prop up returns. I | doubt there is that many people willing to jump in that | haven't already been burned. | Animatronio wrote: | Yeah, smart move - lose 15% a day, rather than 9% a year | through inflation. | SantalBlush wrote: | People bought cryptocoins in 2021 to "offset inflation". That | did not go well for them. | | I think we can safely put the claims about crypto offsetting | inflation to rest. | TSiege wrote: | "Solana's native SOL token suffered as a result of FTX's | collapse, dropping over 40% on Wednesday at a price of $14.37. | This is 92% below its price from a year ago." | | I looked it up and it was trading for $230.23 on Nov 9, 2021. As | of posting this comment it's at $13.16 | TechBro8615 wrote: | Back in the day, SOL used to stand for "shit outta luck" | DonHopkins wrote: | Good thing I invested heavily in ITYS. | stavros wrote: | Apparently, it still does. | largepeepee wrote: | Seeing your name greyed out within a few mins, guess you | hit a nerve with the HN SOL peeps. | evronm wrote: | What's old is new again. I think this qualifies as poetic | justice? | bittytitty wrote: | Bitcoin and it's technology isn't going anywhere. The rest of the | world is too invested in it for it to disappear. Just wait it | out. It will be fine. | | "Many shall be restored that now are fallen and many shall fall | that now are in honor" -Horace | andrewstuart wrote: | Another crypto crash? I'm surprised anyone would have serious | money still in crypto after the last megacrash, which came after | the previous crypto crash. | throwup wrote: | Nothing but crashes. Bitcoin crashed to $2 in 2011, then it | crashed to $250 in 2015, then it crashed to $3000 in 2019, and | now it's crashed again to $15000. Smart money knows to stay | away and avoid the crashes. | andrewstuart wrote: | You didn't note the bitcoin high water mark was nearly | exactly one year ago at $64,400, versus today at $15,696. | binkHN wrote: | So, future crash to $75000 in 2026? | DonHopkins wrote: | Just because your cryptocurrency just lost 90% of its value | today, doesn't mean it can't also lose 90% of its value | tomorrow too. | woodruffw wrote: | This is a joke, but it also misses the point: a volatile | asset doesn't have to crash to any particular baseline. It | only has to crash below the stake price for its investors. | throwup wrote: | You're talking about MVRV (Market Value to Realized Value). | If it's below 1, it means the average investor is carrying | a loss, and > 1 means carrying profit. Historically every | halving it has spent some time below 1, and we are right on | schedule. | | https://charts.woobull.com/bitcoin-mvrv-ratio/ | TylerE wrote: | This time it's different. There's no giant pool of FOMOing | suckers to drive the next wave. | geerlingguy wrote: | The pyramid found its base and can't expand into any more | gullible markets. | yieldcrv wrote: | because everyone following the best practices is unscathed. | | everyone had a choice to just never touch TerraLuna. | | everyone had a choice to not keep their funds on exchanges. | | I'll give some sympathy to custodial smart contracts being | drained and advertised as non-custodial, a legal distinction | that has little practical distinction for the user except | unlimited amounts and no permission needed to use. But you | didn't have to use those either. | | and overcollateralized stablecoins type fiat are still fine | (for now) | | and overcollateralized stablecoins type crypto are still fine | with redemptions functioning smoothly through pretty amazing | stress tests | | other kinds of stablecoins are the ones that actually have | implosions and make the news, with the notable exception and | danger of Tether which still have passed every stress test | despite such a large attack surface being consistently attacked | by state actors very publicly | | regardless, it has been entirely possible to have stable value | in crypto the whole time, and in fact that's where a majority | of the capital is, far beyond any hacks, exploits and exchange | implosions. overcollateralized stablecoins are still $120bn and | has been a steady amount for the past year. redemptions go well | when desired, people just don't desire. | | and then for the people that actually have the risk profile for | volatile assets and self-custody those assets? they're fine | too. let the VC and bankruptcy trustees fire-sale, let | everything trade for another 90% discount, that's not | controversial, commodities trade like that, digital commodities | are trading similarly. | machina_ex_deus wrote: | You're cute. In the end of the day this entire shenanigan is | a game of musical chairs and as every chair is taken out, you | should be more anxious to sit down quickly before the music | stops. The actual details hardly matter, this is a game | played only by investors, and money is slowly draining. | Nobody is inserting new chairs into your musical game, only | new participants with their own chairs. Unlike musical | chairs, you can leave right now. | yieldcrv wrote: | > The actual details hardly matter, this is a game played | only by investors, and money is slowly draining. | | and that's not controversial, I'm perfectly fine with that | and everyone in the space should be just as objective about | their risk profile. We both agree that any other sales | pitch for crypto was grifter bingo. | | I don't consider this platform for investors to be perfect | yet, for example I don't consider any stablecoin | overcollateralized by fiat to be 'good' and I don't | consider any of the stablecoins overcollateralized by | crypto to be great yet, there is a lot to build and a lot | of value to extract building. | twblalock wrote: | > regardless, it has been entirely possible to have stable | value in crypto the whole time | | Where? Which crypto investments would have resulted in that | during the "whole time"? Or even just the last few years? | olliej wrote: | Traditionally this foreshadows an exchange going bust, is that | what is happening here? | _3u10 wrote: | The exchange is going bust. Well the coin is going bust unable | to maintain the peg. Think the end of Bretonwoods but for | crypto. | | I've never understood stablecoins it's as dumb as a USD ETF | [deleted] | LegitShady wrote: | understanding stablecoins is really simple. | | "how do i convert crypto assets into USD without triggering a | taxable event?" | | the answer was create a stablecoin where you for sure have $1 | for each coin so you can always exchange your crypto for | dollars. | | the problem is all these shady crypto finance people are busy | making money off of stablecoins and hoping nobody catches | them without enough cash on hand since they invested the USD | into assets instead of just holding cash, or when the value | went up they minted more stablecoin to sell off and now that | the price of the stablecoin is down they don't have the | ability to cover their liabilities. | | The basic idea to protect against taxes, the extended idea is | to enrich every grifter around. | jayp wrote: | When you sell stock A and buy stock B, if you had capital | gains on stock A, it is a taxable event. | | Crypto is the same. | | Why do you think converting from BTC to USDT is not a | taxable event? | WalterSear wrote: | When you sold stock A, you got dollars for it. | harambae wrote: | But when each Velodyne Lidar share is exchanged for | 0.8204 shares of Ouster (in the near future), it won't be | a taxable event. | freeplay wrote: | Your stock example is not what was described though. | | You're not selling Bitcoin and then buying USDT. You're | buying USDT with Bitcoin. | | With your stock example, you can't buy shares of Apple | stock using your Google stock. It has to go to fiat first | which is a taxable event. | from wrote: | Your interpretation of the law was potentially correct | before the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (this was debated but | was never taken to court) but is now not correct and | crypto-crypto swaps are taxable and you use the dollar | value as reference price. This may not be the case in | other countries. | drfuchs wrote: | And swapping BTC for USDT still a taxable event. Just as | if I bartered my Apple stock for some Google stock of | yours: for both of us, there's a capital gain or loss, | and it's a taxable event. You don't have to go through | actual cash money for it to be a taxable event. | | https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/OC-Barteringandtrading- | eacht... | dragonwriter wrote: | > "how do i convert crypto assets into USD without | triggering a taxable event?" | | You don't: "Taxable gain or loss may result from | transactions including, but not limited to: [...] Exchange | or trade of one digital asset for another digital asset." | [0] | | You can't hack around taxable events by avoiding exchange | into fiat. | | [0] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international- | taxpayers/freq... | LegitShady wrote: | but you're trading $100 worth of Crypto A into $100 worth | of USDT or whatever other 'stablecoin' ostensibly backed | dollar for dollar with USD, thus there are no gains but | you still ostensibly have 'converted' Crypto A to the | closest thing you can convert it to that isn't actual | USD. | | That's the purpose. If you sell a crypto for USD you may | get taxed. If you convert it to equal amounts of a | different crypto there are no gains and no tax. | fragmede wrote: | the price of Solana is going to crater due to a massive | increase in supply*, and crypto.com is hedging their bets. | | * https://u.today/320-million-in-solana-will-hit-market- | in-24-...* | tell3 wrote: | USDC and USDT prices have nothing to do with the SOL price | FollowingTheDao wrote: | Not just an exchange, all of bitcoin. | CyberDildonics wrote: | What do you mean by "all of bitcoin" ? It is working at its | steady transaction rate of a few kilobytes per second like it | always has. | phphphphp wrote: | Crypto.com are not long for this world but I don't think this | is their demise, rather, this is specifically the Solana | blockchain, which is... well, it's not a traditional | blockchain. More a reflection on Solana (and it's vulnerability | to the demise of FTX) than Crypto.com. | clarkeni wrote: | It's absolutely more of a reflection on crypto.com than the | solana blockchain (which is functioning normally). | harambae wrote: | > More a reflection on Solana (and it's vulnerability to the | demise of FTX) than Crypto.com. | | Citation definitely needed. I'd say the opposite. From a few | days ago... https://decrypt.co/113632/google-cloud-just- | became-a-solana-... | traveler01 wrote: | Not exactly, since it's a very specific suspension. | tell3 wrote: | Idgi, the Solana network functions normal, and SOL is not | intimately tied to FTX. They only reason they would do this imo, | is if Crypto.com itself has problems (they want to slow | withdrawals?). What am I missing here? | Animats wrote: | _" More than 18 million coins worth approximately $320 million | will hit the cryptocurrency market in the next 24 hours after | they are released from staking. ... In addition to the | aforementioned 18 million SOL, the market should be ready for a | 1.7 million Solend whale liquidation; the whale borrowed 30 | million USDC against his two million SOL collateral. A total of | 96.7% of his loan is backed by the cryptocurrency that is | rapidly losing value on the market right now. Technically, | liquidation has been triggered already, and the borrow | utilization greatly exceeded the liquidation threshold by more | than 50%..."_[1] | | And that's just stuff that's publicly known. | | [1] https://u.today/320-million-in-solana-will-hit-market- | in-24-... | tell3 wrote: | That's not really related. | davidcbc wrote: | The answer to your question is in your post | booleandilemma wrote: | I'm assuming the government will just bail out everyone who loses | money through crypto with my tax dollars. It'll be fine, nothing | to worry about. | FollowingTheDao wrote: | I have a prediction for all of you here: | | Bitcoin at 1000 by March 1st. | CyberDildonics wrote: | Time to prove everyone how smart you are and make lots of money | at the same time. | | https://www.investopedia.com/news/short-bitcoin/ | low_tech_love wrote: | Oh man I wish I had the balls to do it. | eddsh1994 wrote: | I'd take that bet! | xiphias2 wrote: | You can on the CFTC futures market | woeirua wrote: | I'll one up you: Bitcoin at zero by March 1st. This crash is | going to take down USDT/Binance and the entire ecosystem around | it. | eloff wrote: | I highly doubt it, but it's not impossible. Bitcoin doesn't | really have any intrinsic value to provide a floor for the | price. It's all technicals, all perception. | guelo wrote: | When FTX and Crypto.com have to give up their sports arena naming | rights it will be great PR to the population at large to stay | away from crypto. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-11-09 23:00 UTC)