[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until...
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Ask HN: Anyone go through Montessori education until age 12 (end of
grade 6)?
Am curious what peoples experiences from Montessori transitioning
to other education systems was like and how they perceived the
school worked or didn't for then? Have some children decisions and
looking for outside opinions! Thanks!
Author : boringg
Score : 159 points
Date : 2022-11-16 13:03 UTC (9 hours ago)
| andrewxdiamond wrote:
| > The Montessori method of education involves children's natural
| interests and activities rather than formal teaching methods. A
| Montessori classroom places an emphasis on hands-on learning and
| developing real-world skills. It emphasizes independence and it
| views children as naturally eager for knowledge and capable of
| initiating learning in a sufficiently supportive and well-
| prepared learning environment.
| krn1p4n1c wrote:
| Both my kids transitioned from Montessori to public school at 11
| (grade 5) in the US. 13 and 16 now.
|
| + Love of learning and self-driven discovery
|
| + Top of class in pretty much all subjects
|
| + Comfortable giving presentations
|
| + Comfortable working in groups
|
| + At ease working with younger students/children and essentially
| mentoring them
|
| + Excellent handwriting
|
| + Respect for teachers
|
| - Difficulty with testing that involves framing the questions in
| an intentionally deceptive manner
|
| - Difficult transition to the cliques and more aggressive social
| dynamics of public school
|
| - Tough for them to deal with the way many students treat their
| teachers and behave in general in public school
|
| I would recommend, that a year or 2 before the kids transition
| they start doing standardized tests and worksheets to get
| acclimated to that. It's a big shock otherwise.
|
| Overall my kids loved their time in Montessori and wish the
| program had gone through high school.
| deathclassic wrote:
| dustedcodes wrote:
| How do you really feel about teachers?
| GoldenRacer wrote:
| I'll agree with you that some teachers really suck. I can
| think of a few examples I had growing up that fit your
| description.
|
| That being said, we have a real shortage of teachers right
| now and low pay combined with lack of respect is a large
| reason for that shortage. Maybe the solution isn't calling
| them stupid and disrespect them. Maybe instead we should make
| teaching a profession with a liveable wage where they don't
| have to deal with parents throwing temper tantrums when their
| kids don't get straight A's. Maybe if we did that, we'd have
| enough people still wanting to be teachers that we could go
| ahead and fire the shitty ones (something we can't do if we
| don't have replacements)
| deathclassic wrote:
| We probably just need a different approach to education in
| general, or just a reckoning of what values our society
| actually has. As much as I like to hate on teachers
| (because of bad experiences I had) they really are just the
| symptoms of an institutional/cultural problem. Reasons
| teachers get disrespected (and arguably deserve it):
|
| - Education is a major studied by idiots who want to party
| in college.
|
| - Western society is individualistic to a fault. The reason
| teachers get screamed at is because grades are seen as an
| attack on the character of a parents child (and used to
| evaluate and individuals worth). Since the parents refuse
| to believe that _their_ little kid might just not have a
| high IQ or be lazy, clearly the _teacher_ is at fault.
| Everyone wants to believe their little mini-me is a special
| snowflake, the bell curve proves otherwise.
|
| - This narcissism and individualism, is also a feature of
| teachers. Hence, the constant self-aggrandization of being
| a glorified daycare worker by everyone in the profession.
|
| - Teachers unions make it difficult to fire shitty
| teachers, even if there isn't a shortage of teachers. Just
| like cops, teachers look out for themselves.
|
| - Good teachers get poached by private schools, that offer
| higher wages.
|
| Institutional/Cultural problems that make education shitty:
|
| - Property taxes fund schools. Rich suburban areas have
| well funded schools, poor inner city areas have underfunded
| schools that are falling apart. Guess which one attracts
| better teachers?
|
| - The US is a large and very diverse country. Some
| populations here value education A TON, others do not. This
| is a reality that has to be acknowledge, and the standards
| of say, Silicon valley should not be applied to rural
| Texas. (my siblings took AP US history in Texas and they
| didn't even learn about the civil war)
|
| - College is pushed on ALL students, and funding is
| partially determined by college admittance. Needless to say
| this is wasteful and partially contributed to many of the
| issues around student debt and credential inflation.
|
| - Standardized testing is also a terrible mechanism for
| determining school funding. Teachers end up wasting a ton
| of time trying to teach to some arbitrary standardized
| test, and the students hate it as well.
|
| Idk I could probably list more issues with education but
| those are a few off the top of my head.
| conductr wrote:
| Just want to point out this sounds more like a private->public
| pros and cons list. I'm not doubting it at all, just not sure
| if it's due to the Montessori method. Most Montessori's are or
| are operate similar to the private setting.
| spiffytech wrote:
| I attended a small, private, religious, non-Montessori school
| through middle+high school.
|
| While the atmosphere wasn't toxic like I hear people say
| about public school, few of my peers were interested in
| learning, excelled academically, etc.
|
| A non-negligible portion of the kids in my school were the
| ones kicked out of the public school for grades or
| troublemaking. I think they did better at my school, but that
| population affected the academic experience. My brother went
| to another nearby religious school and it was the same.
|
| My school was caught in a loop of poor funding -> sub-par
| teachers -> less enrollment -> less funding.
|
| I expect a school focused specifically on self-actualization
| and skill-building to have better results than an arbitrary
| private school.
| conductr wrote:
| This is a good point. "Private" encompasses a wide variety
| of experiences and quality. My private experience with my
| kid is of the somewhat elitist variety. They simply would
| not accept expelled students from any school. They heavily
| curate enrollment to create an environment for success.
| They're building a cooperative community of Families that
| will reinforce the holistic development of each student.
| Parental involvement is required and with fairly high
| expectations.
|
| If you just throw kids together and expect the
| syllabus/curriculum to prevail, you'll quickly find the
| Lord of the Flies elements of public school social dynamics
| come into play and for a child often are more important
| than academics. At that point, simply being "private" has
| no advantage.
| anon291 wrote:
| > At that point, simply being "private" has no advantage.
|
| Based on the experience given above as well as my own
| experience, I'm going to guess the poster was talking
| about Catholic parochial schools. Catholic parochial
| schools were the original public schools in North America
| and still operate as such today, except obviously no
| public funding in the United States (they do in some
| provinces of Canada).
|
| Either way, they'll accept basically anyone. However,
| they do consistently give better results anyway, even
| adjusting for income and social status. Actually, the
| effect is most pronounced in the lowest incomes. The
| richer you are, the less difference parochial v public
| makes (of course going to super cushy private schools
| puts you at an advantage).
| krn1p4n1c wrote:
| There's definitely a strong overlap in that sense. Probably
| also because these institutions tend to have smaller class
| sizes which allow better teach/student interaction and more
| time. Public schooling in the US could do this too, but has
| been hamstrung for decades.
|
| In math the kids definitely leveraged the binomial/trinomial
| tools, beads and other tactile methods to have a better
| understanding of the concepts of mult/div/exponentials/roots
| long before they would have approached in the standard US
| arithmetic methods. They were also doing algebra and geometry
| by the end of Montessori.
|
| Montessori also spends a lot of time working on holistic
| views with regards to science and history and then give the
| kids the freedom to do their own research and projects on the
| topics. The normal school models tend to take more of a
| cause-effect + memorize the dates method as that's what
| tracks the testing. It's not generally till university that
| they then go back to something that usually requires critical
| thinking.
|
| On critical thinking there's an emphasis there in Montessori
| on involving the kids in asking more questions and then
| building a model to analyze and defend their position. Public
| school is optimizing for learn by rote and it's a culture
| shock going to Uni where they back to something that's
| utilizing critical analysis.
|
| My older child is in IB at the moment and they're using much
| of this as it's taught in more of Uni style.
| boringg wrote:
| Thanks for sharing - those are some very valuable insights. If
| it's not to personal to ask what sex are your children?
|
| I suspect transitioning out may be slightly different depending
| on a large variety of factors but maybe how children are raised
| to socialize in a traditional sense. To be fair its been many
| years since I've been in school but there's probably still a
| bit of a lean for activity based socializing for boys vs girls
| but hopefully that's changed.
| sedeki wrote:
| > - Difficult transition to the cliques and more aggressive
| social dynamics of public school
|
| Am I naive in thinking that the aggressive social dynamics of
| public school adds no value whatsoever to a child's or
| teenager's development?
|
| Like, _why_ would anyone want to put their children through
| that? Is it _really_ integral to a person's social development
| to understand how to interact with bullies (worst case)?
|
| I admit that I am rather nihilistic about public schooling, but
| I'm open to changing my mind.
| matthewowen wrote:
| Gotta put your kids through the damage of school social
| dynamics so that as adults they'll be equipped to interact
| with other people who were also damaged by it.
| at_a_remove wrote:
| I don't know how to frame this that doesn't come off very
| Stockholm Syndrome, but ... the environment of human beings
| is not the jungle or the tundra, it is other human beings. As
| such, being able to navigate among the majority -- whatever
| they are -- has some kind of utility.
|
| I'll throw in a side of "Americans are often 'stuck' in high
| school on some developmental level." I couldn't necessarily
| say the same about people in Europe or anywhere else.
| krn1p4n1c wrote:
| I agree that a lot of it's needless and painful, but there's
| some merit in knowing how to defend yourself (physically,
| mentally and emotionally). There's a lot of the petty BS that
| you learn from in school that transposes to adult life. I
| hate watching my kids deal with it, but I'd be remiss in
| raising them if I didn't prepare them for that.
| peytoncasper wrote:
| I would generally agree with you. However, unfortunately, a
| lot of organizations tend to mimic these exact same social
| structures. It may not be as aggressive because we're
| adults now, but understanding how to navigate that and when
| something is toxic can be a helpful skill.
| marssaxman wrote:
| I was home schooled all the way through til college - never
| went to any regular school. I have never regretted that,
| and never felt that I am missing out on any skills
| necessary for dealing with functional adults. Indeed I see
| the painful impacts and lasting damage those experiences
| had on some of my friends, and I am glad I never had to
| experience it.
|
| Kids are cruel to each other because they do not yet know
| any better. They are still developing empathy and have not
| yet learned social skills. Kids in mixed-age environments
| can (and do) take their cues from older children and
| adults; kids who are isolated into the bizarre,
| historically nonexistent single-age environments found in
| the modern school system do not have that advantage, and
| accordingly tend to brutalize each other. Outside of prison
| there is nothing like it in adult life.
| crysin wrote:
| Just want to point out that adults can be just as cruel
| or even crueler than children with just as little
| empathy. I don't believe or buy the idea that it just a
| kid thing. We live in this myth that adults are more
| mature but interacting with society dispels that myth
| drastically quick, in my experience.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| I think I see a lot more kindness as an adult, but I
| think this is almost exclusively due to selection
| effects.
|
| I do not see that kindness at the airport or the grocery
| store, or most other instances that are closer to a
| random sampling of the US adult population.
| _dain_ wrote:
| >There's a lot of the petty BS that you learn from in
| school that transposes to adult life.
|
| No, you learn maladaptive patterns. Your options are
| artificially constrained. Most of the ways a grown adult
| would deal with e.g. bullies are just not available to you.
|
| Take physical violence for example. As an adult, if you're
| threatened with physical violence you have the options to:
|
| - Get out of there. But kids can't do this because they're
| physically confined to the same classroom with the same
| people, every day. And obviously you're not allowed to just
| leave the school when you want to.
|
| - Fight back. Risky, but you at least won't be punished by
| the courts if you can argue self-defense. But kids can't do
| this because "zero tolerance" policies punish both the
| aggressor and victim, by design, if the victim fights back
|
| - Call the police. Kids can't do this, police don't care
| about schoolyard disputes. Snitching to a teacher just gets
| you bullied even more.
|
| - Talk the person down. Maybe this works, but in a school
| they'll be back again the next day, and you'll have to do
| it again, and again, and again. Adult interactions are not
| so predictably repeated, unless in some other highly
| institutionalized setting like the military or a prison
| (guess which places also have problems with violent
| bullying).
|
| Adults can, well, solve their problems like adults.
| Schoolkids _literally aren 't allowed_ to solve their
| problems like adults. Fuck, they're not even allowed to go
| to the toilet without asking someone first.
|
| Is there any wonder they develop behavioral pathologies to
| cope: passivity, social withdrawal, self-harm, proactive
| aggression, self-sabotage, etc etc.
|
| And I wonder how much of adult suffering comes down from
| not un-learning bad behavioral patterns learned in school?
| How many people have put up with being treated like garbage
| for years (at work, in a relationship, etc), because they
| haven't internalized that they don't need to ask an
| authority figure to be allowed to leave?
| speeder wrote:
| I never had the opportunity to go to more "not normal"
| school like Montessori, and I ended learning rather
| quickly, that at least in normal private schools, the
| solution to any problem, is violence. If that is not
| working, then even more violence.
|
| At some point I had to defend myself from a bully (that
| probably had a awful home life, since that guy managed to
| come home to school 7:00 in the morning already drunk,
| multiple times) by bashing the guy with a metal table and
| then threatening to kill him with a knife. Only then, he
| stopped bothering me.
|
| Also I knew more than one guy that admired Columbine
| guys, their reason is that it was a good way (in their
| minds of course) of both getting out of their shitty life
| and taking revenge at same time.
|
| Thankfully, now that I am adult, all problems so far I
| could solve by just talking to people, no tables, knives,
| planks or chains necessary.
|
| Note: I went to "good" private schools, thus nobody died
| or got seriously injured, but I have friends that went to
| public schools, and one of them for example was forced to
| cause serious injury when 3 older students ambushed him
| right outside the school, and the only thing he had to
| defend himself was his skateboard, so he proceeded to hit
| them with the metal axis where you attach the wheels,
| broke half of the teeth of one guy, caved in one of the
| temples of another, and broke the shoulder and one knee
| of the third, after that the school started to have the
| police patrol near the school to prevent a repeat of
| this. Also that school banned skateboards, yoyos, long
| rulers (specially a particular metal ruler distributed as
| souvenir during a political campaign, that people found
| out you could sharpen and use as a decent machete) and
| spinning tops (specially those with metal tip, one kid
| made a hole in another kid head with one).
| whimsicalism wrote:
| I'm honestly confused by many of the comments I find in
| this thread re: bullying.
|
| I went to a pretty rough school (repeated fights, people
| I went to school with murdering people, etc.) and I
| basically was never even once threatened with violence.
| All the bullying is through words and making fun of
| people, etc.
|
| Is physical bullying of this sort actually that common or
| more media depiction?
| sedeki wrote:
| But why do they need this from public school over say any
| other social ... activity (?). For example sports.
|
| I am genuinely questioning whether public school makes
| children socially mature rather than only being a traumatic
| experience for many pupils, for no other reason than that
| public schooling is the default choice.
| krn1p4n1c wrote:
| What school does is provide an environment of ~8hrs/day
| to pressure test their social skills and build coping
| mechanisms (good and bad). You do get that to a lesser
| degree from other environments such as sports and in the
| end it's all transferable learning. Playing on a team vs
| training an individual sport with a club gives very
| different social lessons and shapes them accordingly.
|
| But I don't think school is what makes them mature as
| much as it's the adults that they look up to and emulate
| that shape that. And whether it traumatic can depend on
| how they're able to internalize it.
| jterrys wrote:
| No you're right, there is no other reason than public
| schooling being the default choice. Which is why its
| necessary. It's self fulfilling.
|
| It's the choice that everyone goes through. So unless you
| want your children to be unable to adapt to the people
| that were shaped through that horrible system, you will
| need to introduce them to that system in some capacity.
| Sports are not really enough. School is like day job for
| kids until they're 18. Everyone goes through the same
| standardized garbage, and they will have to live their
| lives with other people who went through the same
| standardized garbage.
|
| Your only choice is to pay exorbitantly so they don't go
| through that garbage, but will face adulthood with 99% of
| the population that did, which can have mixed results.
| Joeboy wrote:
| How will your child cope in prison if they've never
| experienced school?
| rodelrod wrote:
| I spent two years in a rough-ish public school. It was the
| hardest period in my life but it taught me very much about
| valuing people from all walks of life and especially on
| adapting my behavior to get positive outcomes in any social
| setting. I can absolutely see how that experience is lacking
| on some of my friends that spent all their lives in protected
| environments.
| boringg wrote:
| Fair point but can't that be worked around through having
| parents teach their kids to value people from all walks of
| life? True the lack of exposure does play a factor but I
| would wager it falls heavily on what parents hand down to
| their children and how they perceive the world.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| Eh, I went to an elite private university after attending
| a not-so-good urban public school.
|
| Lack of exposure is a massive factor and even with good
| intentions it does not really make up for it.
|
| Most of the kids I went to school with were oblivious
| about poverty or even just being mindful of different
| socieconomic circumstances. stuff like
|
| "yeah, let's just have all of our friends go out to a
| fancy restaurant and split the bill for every single one
| of our birthdays"
| [deleted]
| HDThoreaun wrote:
| Handling social conflict is a reality of adult life.
| Yhippa wrote:
| The reason that's valuable IMO is that once you get into the
| Real World, you are going to run into these complex social
| situations and need to be able to navigate them with grace.
| Especially in the business world.
| gwnywg wrote:
| I agree with your conclusion about aggressive social dynamics
| of public schools add nothing to child's development, and I
| base my opinion on my own experiences. I pretty much hated
| school - not for what I was meant to learn there but because
| of the aggression. That's main reason I put my kids through
| montessori, to spare them that experience I had to go
| through, and which contributed nothing to my development.
| vkou wrote:
| There's value to teaching people how to handle conflict, in a
| safe, low-stakes environment. There's always going to be
| assholes in life, you need to learn how to deal with them.
|
| The problem is when the degree of conflict escalates past
| that safe, low-stakes level (which it does for some people,
| in some schools). We don't have everyone spend a month in
| prison, as part of their education, for instance, because it
| wouldn't be safe, or low-stakes, and would _permanently
| damage people_.
| zhdc1 wrote:
| > Am curious what peoples experiences from Montessori
| transitioning to other education systems was like and how they
| perceived the school worked or didn't for then? Have some
| children decisions and looking for outside opinions! Thanks!
|
| I went through something similar through the end of high school.
| I did, however, go through public school for elementary.
|
| My experiences mirror a lot of what others on here have already
| written. The transition to back to traditional education
| (university) wasn't an issue.
|
| If you are already motivated, going from a low to moderately more
| rigorous style of learning is easy.
|
| The issue is going in the other direction, which is why so many
| first year university students fail.
| dyingkneepad wrote:
| I have a slightly negative experience to share.
|
| I put my kid in a Montessori Preschool. The school was one giant
| 25-kid classroom with about 5 teachers. He absolutely loved a
| specific and was learning from her. He was starting to learn to
| read at the age of 4, super interested in everything she brought
| him. Then his favorite teacher left the school and it was never
| the same thing again. Even though he already knew the others,
| they could never actually get him interested in reading again or
| simply learning. It seems to me he didn't like the "focus time"
| (I forgot the name they use!) and doing activities all by
| himself. School as mostly boring to him, I ever wonder what the
| heck he was doing there all that time, 99% of the stories he
| shared with us happened during the little outside play time they
| had.
|
| Then we put him in Public School for Kindergarten and he
| absolutely loved it. He loved doing the same activity as
| everybody else, he loved the teacher, he loved the more energetic
| environment. He immediately got interested in learning again.
|
| So my conclusion is that it has much more to do with the teacher
| and the environment than with the method. Choose well, and trust
| your feelings when you see and talk to the teachers.
| boringg wrote:
| Sorry to hear that - that sounds concerning as a parent but I'm
| glad your child found their way again. Agree with you that and
| my sense is that teachers are the foundational component of
| education regardless of systemic benefits/drawbacks - all the
| way through your adult years where someone interesting at work
| can light up topics that you wouldn't otherwise be interested
| in.
| nowardic wrote:
| I went to a Montessori school through the end of grade 7 and then
| transitioned to a traditional school for grades 8-12. From what I
| can remember from the transition, it was certainly a bit jarring
| but ultimately I was able to adapt to the new system fairly
| quickly and got good grades throughout the rest of my high school
| education.
|
| Regarding the Montessori experience, I have fond memories of the
| 7 or so years I spent there. Although it's impossible to tease
| out causation, I generally attribute my love of learning and
| personal autonomy to my years there and very much think it was
| worth it for me.
| smallstepforman wrote:
| My son went through Montessori from ages 2 until 11 (finished
| grade 5). As with any other institution, it depends on the
| quality of teachers. He had 1 great teacher, one good teach, and
| 1 not so good teacher during his schooling. There are a couple of
| key factors which made us choose Montessori:
|
| - mixed aged group classrooms. So in one year of the 3 year
| cycle, he is the younger child (and receives mentorship from his
| older buddies), and in year 3 of each cycle, he is the older
| buddie mentoring younger pupils. Since he has no siblings, this
| is a benefit to his development.
|
| - Montessori follow the state curriculum, however they allow
| children to manage their own time. So if he wants to do math all
| day, he can, and the teacher is there more for project management
| and giving him assistance than to drive him by a strict 45 minute
| schedule. At the end of the week, he is supposed to accomplish
| the assigned work (regardless of which order he wants to do it
| in). This will help him in the future with his own project
| management and prioritising work loads (we hope).
|
| - the parents sending their kids to Montessori are not of the
| Elitist breed. I wont explain what I mean by that here. Its
| better than Steiner type schools (my personal opinion).
|
| Other than the above, there wasn't anything particular about
| Montessori compared regular State run schools.
| borbulon wrote:
| > the parents sending their kids to Montessori are not of the
| Elitist breed.
|
| I think that will depend on the school. My daughter went to
| two, on opposite sides of the country: one was filled with
| super nice parents, the other had a lot more pretension.
| j-bos wrote:
| tldr went to Montessori, thumbs up.
|
| I went to a Montesorri school from 1st through 4th grade. I
| enjoyed the atmosphere. In recent years I've read about
| Montessori and found that my Montessori experience was different,
| but much the same wrt a gentle focus on practical individual
| learning.
|
| Non Montessori school was a process of checking boxes and actual
| thinking inbetween, while Montessori was a cycle of thinking
| through problems for yourself, sometimes as a group.
|
| One thing I didn't appreciate until later school years is that
| Montessori blends different ages and skill levels together. I
| neither felt the need to keep up nor to excel, just to figure
| stuff out. For example, I remember a a classmate writing an essay
| using movable letters on a mat, but he didn't space them out so
| it was hard to read. I asked why he was doing it like that and
| the teacher responded that he had chosen to do it that way, I
| felt it was wrong, but instead of letting me get on a high horse,
| the teacher drew my attention to what I was already on my way to
| do. He continued to write without spaces, and I continued to
| think someone should correct him. Lo and behold, he learned to
| use spaces, all without someone, teacher nor child, scolding him,
| with words or with red marks. That's hard to do in typical
| bureaucratized classroom.
|
| If I were pressed to find fault in Montessori itself, I'd say, it
| cannot succeed at all without good teachers/emotion/energy
| conductors, while a common classroom can get ok enough outcomes
| with an authority figure and good textbooks.
| pandemicsoul wrote:
| Very small anecdotal experience, but I was in Montessori school
| for grades 2-3 (in the late 80s) and it ruined my math education.
| When I should have been learning the standard ways to do basic
| math, they were teaching me nonsense like "skip counting" with
| rhymes. Despite coming from a family of people very good at math
| (which also put a focus on math education at an early age), I
| fell behind and never caught up.
| marcus_holmes wrote:
| I was a troubled kid. Expelled from 2 kindergartens for
| disruptive behaviour. My parents tried Montessori, and it worked.
| They found out I was interested in mythology, so I apparently
| learned to read from the Greek myths. One of my friends was into
| cars, so they got him a pile of car showroom brochures and he
| learned to read from that.
|
| There was a non-verbal autistic kid there, too. I played "clap-
| hands" with them every day, apparently the only human interaction
| (apart from their parents) that they had.
|
| We moved when I was 5, and I went to a normal school after that.
| I don't remember much about it (all the above is stories my
| parents told me later). Luckily we moved to a small village where
| the teacher had enough time to continue giving me the
| personalised attention I clearly needed. Then I got shipped off
| to boarding school and the rest of my schooling is a dark,
| terrible mess of anger and violence.
|
| It totally worked for me. I hated school, except that one.
| insightcheck wrote:
| I sometimes wonder about whether personalised teaching as a
| young student is overall good or bad, for students who then
| move on to a university with very large, impersonal classes
| (e.g. with more than 1000 students per class).
|
| On the one hand, I think students in small classes can really
| become more confident and enthusiastic about learning in the
| long-term. But on the other, a shift to larger classes can be
| alienating (e.g. feedback from educators is less frequent).
| This could be mitigated by going to office hours, but there are
| plenty of minority experiences that stick where teaching
| assistants and professors are unwelcoming. The change could be
| less of a shock for students who went to large high schools, as
| they're more used to large classes.
|
| Perhaps students who have the chance to grow up with
| individualized learning can opt for universities that have
| smaller classes, though it's not always possible when large
| public universities can often be much more affordable. I wonder
| if there is a way to prepare students from smaller schools with
| personalized education to do well at much larger educational
| institutions.
| satellite2 wrote:
| What kind of kindergarten expels children? It sounds at best
| grossly incompetent. Are you sure there was no other bias that
| played a role in their decision? It sounds rather unlikely you
| were the cause.
| gpt5 wrote:
| Private schools tend to do it if the behavior severely affect
| other kids. E.g. repeated violent behavior.
| drekipus wrote:
| Public schools just let the repeated violent behaviour
| happen :p
| rossdavidh wrote:
| My child has been homeschooled and many of the other
| homeschooling families I have talked to have used Montessori. My
| primary impression is that it varies a _lot_ from one Montessori
| school to another, and there isn't much preventing someone from
| claiming that their private school is "Montessori". So while it's
| great that you are asking for feedback on HN, make sure also to
| find out the inside scoop about the _particular_ Montessori
| school you are considering.
| shove wrote:
| My wife is a Montessori teacher and I'll warn you to watch out
| for schools that are Montessori in name only. I know, I know ...
| as if it wasn't hard enough already.
| tducasse wrote:
| My wife went to this indian alternative education school, a
| boarding school called Rishi Valley. They've opened many branches
| now, though I can't speak for the ones I don't know, all based on
| the philosophy of Jiddu Krishnamurti; you can read more about
| them here: https://jkrishnamurti.org/schools
|
| Rishi Valley's teachning style is, honestly, what I wish my
| education had been. I remember being a kid and asking my teacher
| for "more", questions about what happens _beyond_ what we had
| just learned, and them saying "don't worry about it, you'll learn
| next year". Rishi Valley's approach is "why don't you come later
| and I'll show you? is anyone else interested?". They really try
| to emphasize learning for the sake of learning, and kids can
| choose from multiple subjects.
|
| The teachers are often PhDs who have decided that they care a lot
| about education. Since it's a not for profit school, they're not
| paid a lot, but they live on campus, and get to interact with
| kids all day everyday. Most of the money the school gets is put
| back into rural education.
|
| Now, the transition back to the "standard" system when the kids
| have to go to college is not smooth. Most of the ones I've talked
| to mention that they were extremely overwhelmed with the "rat-
| race" and the fact that everyone was so competitive, where they
| had been focusing on learning for the sake of learning. Everyone
| I've met from this school is very good at critical-thinking, and
| they don't accept a conclusion just because "someone said so",
| they will fact-check, do their own research, debate, ... Which I
| think should be the goal of education.
|
| My anecdotal experience is that they overperform their non-weird-
| school peers though. But is that due to the teaching itself? Or
| is it maybe because the kind of parents who would put their kids
| in this school already did some sort of ground-work? I'm not
| sure!
| cpascal wrote:
| I was in Montessori through kindergarten. I do remember feeling a
| bit disadvantaged socially when I entered 1st grade in a
| conventional school.
|
| Most of the other students had done kindergarten at my new school
| and already knew each other. I did eventually make friends, but I
| always felt like a bit of an outsider since I didn't have that
| shared kindergarten experience with my peers.
|
| I imagine this would only get worse the longer a child stays out
| of the conventional schooling system.
| chasd00 wrote:
| I have a lot of experience with public Montessori, wife taught as
| a middle school Montessori teacher for the past 3 years and both
| my kids went through the same school. My youngest is still there
| at grade 5 and my oldest is in 7th grade at a traditional middle
| school. My wife has taught traditional high school for about 10
| years and then did a summer of training to be a certified
| Montessori teacher.
|
| One thing we learned is that Montessori isn't for every child. My
| oldest did OK but he much prefers traditional schools and is
| thriving at his middle school (a public magnet). My youngest, on
| the other hand, loves the self-guided learning and pace. He's
| more organized and self-motivates better than my oldest which
| makes a big difference. He reads like crazy and finishes books in
| a week that would take me a month at least, not sure where that
| came from but he gets a lot of free time at school when his
| "works" are finished. Both kids are diagnosed with ADHD and so am
| I (my poor wife heh).
|
| Another thing, the Montessori we attend is public so it still has
| to meet district and state testing requirements. That put it in
| an awkward spot where it could never be pure Montessori because
| of the district and state mandated testing. It also puts the
| teachers in an awkward spot because they're rated on testing
| results which contradicts the Montessori method. My wife got fed
| up and left last year and no teaches at a traditional public high
| school.
|
| I live in DFW and the Montessori i'm referring to Mata
| Elementary. DISD is a notorious hellhole of a district but Mata
| is hanging in there. It's not perfect by any stretch but they're
| hanging in there and doing their best with what they have.
| https://www.dallasisd.org/mata
| scirocco wrote:
| Montessori from age 6 to 15.
|
| - Self paced learning and choosing how to spend your time
|
| - Need to collaborate with your peers on scarce resources
| (everyone can't read the same book / solve the same challenge at
| the same time)
|
| - Small classes, no one could get away with anything/bullying
|
| - Responsibility for completing the weekly plan yourself and
| being rewarded for hard work ("the diligence light is well lit"
| sticker you got when sharing your weekly progress - sry poorly
| translated Swedish"
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| Just an FYI, most schools I see that label themselves as
| Montessori aren't actually Montessori, they're just high
| performance schooling environments for young kids. In our neck of
| the woods it's the hip thing and well off parents will pay lots
| of money for it.
| caminante wrote:
| Are they really not using montessori methods?
|
| Or is your critique more along the lines of the bigger driver
| for montessori outcomes isn't the montessori methods, but the
| affluence of the families?
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| That they aren't actually using montessori.
| eclarkso wrote:
| I went to a private Montessori school grades 3K-5, and my
| children have been or are in Montessori school grades 3K-6. As
| you might have guessed, I am a fan.
|
| As most Montessori schools are private, my impression is that the
| variance in the quality of Montessori implementation varies
| considerably, but at a high level I have positive views of many
| of the same method characteristics as other comments:
| - mixed-age classes - learner-driven scheduling/work
| - non-test-centric evaluation - etc.
|
| I would guess that most Montessori schools are smaller than
| schools kids transition into, which might make transitioning to
| other schools hard socially (it was for me, but not for my kids),
| but that also is highly dependent on the individual I think.
| Other than that, I think the method tends to yield:
| - independence in both learning/working and life in general
| - love of learning - kindness towards others
|
| Things I would ask about before choosing a school:
| - are you accredited by AMS, AMI and/or SAIS? - are your
| teachers trained primarily through AMS or AMI? - how long
| have your teachers been with the school, on average? -
| where do students go after this school, and what are their
| outcomes (what colleges, high school honor graduates, etc.)?
| - does the school do standardized testing that is accepted by the
| local school district or otherwise make it easy to transition to
| other schools after they age out?
| gmnash wrote:
| I have two children in Montessori and agree wholeheartedly with
| the above.
|
| I would like to emphasize the check for AMS or AMI. Any school
| can all themselves a Montessori school, so I'd make sure it's
| at least certified in one of those two (not familiar with SAIS
| so cannot comment on that).
| eclarkso wrote:
| FWIW I just realized that my AMS/SAIS references are US-
| specific, so substitute relevant accrediting bodies for
| Montessori/private schools... AMI is international, though.
|
| In the US, AMS vs AMI is a salient difference that is worth
| understanding... it's a bit of a which-linux-distro-is-best
| type holy war.
| boringg wrote:
| Thanks those are very helpful considerations and experience.
|
| Thinking about which program to put my children in has opened a
| whole host of other questions such as one of your last one
| about what are their outcomes - which is how do I want to
| define the outcomes/expectations from the program aka my
| children going through the education system.
| perlgeek wrote:
| > As most Montessori schools are private, my impression is that
| the variance in the quality of Montessori implementation varies
| considerably
|
| Having gone to a different kind of "alternative" school
| (Waldorf / Steiner), I agree 100%.
|
| Variance in quality among teachers was pretty high, higher than
| my children's public schools.
|
| Sadly my school was also used a bit as dumping ground for
| children who failed in the public school system, so at least in
| the later classes most of the newer students were below-average
| in performance, making progress slower and classes more boring.
|
| Switching from an "alternative" to a public school (after 9
| years for me) was a pretty big culture shock.
| wayne wrote:
| I went as a kid and remember it as one of the most fun moments of
| my life. I remember being able to do whatever I wanted. I was
| binge-reading some weeks, playing with fun toys with other kids
| other weeks, or just laying outside on the grass. This was
| preschool though.
| [deleted]
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| Did it for one year. Best year of my school life. But it's a
| shock to go back to the public system where dynamic are
| adversarial and artificially oriented around superficial metrics,
| both for tests and social life.
|
| You probably need both to be well adapted because the public
| system teaches you to defend yourself, which us necessary IRL.
| Montessori teaches you collaboration and thinking outside of zero
| sum mindset.
| whalesalad wrote:
| not montessori, but i was in an "applied scholastics"
| (scientology) school for a few years. what a trip that was.
| jwozn wrote:
| I didn't even know this existed. Going to have to look it up!!
| unixhero wrote:
| You should write a book, it will sell
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Any juicy stories?
| sybercecurity wrote:
| Have some experience with Montessori schools, but naturally all
| schools are different. Like previous posters have said, it can be
| very good at not beating the curiosity out of kids like some
| public schools can. They have a pretty good way at teaching
| reading too. Math is more interesting and one downside is that
| the skills don't always translate 1:1 if you ever transition to
| public schools. They will be ahead in some areas, but behind or
| at a loss in others. Mainly due to the order and way things are
| done which are very, very different.
|
| One thing that may also be a factor is any learning differences
| in the child. Montessori teaching is rigid in its own way and not
| the best for children with dyslexia/dysgraphia (though neither
| are standard public school curricula). Although early Montessori
| math is friendlier for dyscalculia with all the use of physical
| objects. Depending on the school and individual guides, things
| like ADHD, autism may also lead to issues with the school.
| Thought that could be said of any private school.
|
| The biggest thing we saw with people pulling their children out
| of Montessori schools were fears about academic progress and
| measuring their children against their neighbors' kids in public
| school. That's on the parent though: some needed constant
| feedback and validation via grades to feel like their kids were
| competitive with public schools.
| chasd00 wrote:
| > Montessori teaching is rigid in its own way and not the best
| for children with dyslexia/dysgraphia (though neither are
| standard public school curricula)
|
| i didn't mention this in my comment but this point is true in
| my experience as well. My oldest has both dyslexia and
| dysgraphia and really struggled with reading the way Montessori
| teaches it. We had to get outside specialists and basically do
| a very intense summer school to get him up to speed and things
| figured out. Once we understood what was happening we were able
| to get state required accommodations at his Montessori which
| really helped. He's now at a public middle school magnet and
| doing pretty well. His reading and writing are, by far, his
| hardest subjects because he's basically got one hand tied
| behind his back because of the dyslexia/dysgraphia but the kid
| knows how to work and he gets through it.
|
| edit: If i may brag, i've seen that kid of mine do things grown
| adults would run from. That summer school was 4 hrs a day of
| intense work and an absolute struggle many days ended in
| tears/frustration but he did it and beat dyslexia down to
| something he could manage. I've never seen anyone work like he
| did, when i'm getting lazy and phoning it in I think about him
| and pick up the pace.
| monkeyguy37 wrote:
| Preface, I went to a Dutch Montessori school. Curriculum is
| probably very different. Also school starts from the age of 4/5
| and goes till 12/13. (group 1-8)
|
| Monstessori is definitely not for everyone, I really enjoyed my
| time there (not counting the traumatic experiences caused by
| classmates). I definitely feel like the teachers there can give
| you a more personalized way of learning which just isn't possible
| on standard schools. The national curriculum did not challenge me
| enough and had me really struggling to do any work, eventually my
| teachers allowed me more time on the computer if I did my work
| and that worked really well for me.
|
| For transitioning to high school, at first I quite enjoyed it as
| it was all new but after a while I just lost all motivation.
| Every meeting with my parents and the school basically came down
| to "We really think monkeyguy can do better, but he just doesn't
| seem interested". It sucked, I barely did anything and I barely
| passed each year. Eventually I graduated and the same thing
| happened with college/uni. Work life has been great however.
|
| I'm not going to recommend anything however, I do not know your
| children as well as you do.
| jugg1es wrote:
| The CEO at a previous company went to a Montessori school until
| middle school. He said he could barely read when he got there. He
| still had major problems spelling basic words in his late 60s. I
| guess it didn't hurt him but he was already a smart guy. It's
| hard to tell how much it mattered.
| Yaa101 wrote:
| Yes I did in the 70's.
|
| It worked out well up until my 6th grade (8th grade if you count
| kindergarten) The higher education part (Montessori Lyceum) never
| worked out for me as lack of structure and wealth of time freedom
| killed my effort and work ethos.
|
| The difference between how primary and higher education was
| structured on a Montessori based education is to far apart of
| each other.
|
| Primary Montessori education was more about getting the kids
| curious about the world and make them ask questions and get
| knowledge that way into the kid. Higher Montessori education was
| more like standard pumping knowledge that you have to remember
| for terms and tests.
|
| I was never prepared for that higher education part in my primary
| education period so I went from bad to worse in my higher
| education before giving up totally and went to work instead.
| Later I did catch up when I was grown up.
|
| Still, I am thankful for getting Montessori education as it
| formed my worldview and kept me curious and inquisitive the rest
| of my life and even now.
|
| I do wish that in the last 3 years of my primary schooling I had
| more support for conquering the higher education years.
| havelhovel wrote:
| I attended a Montessori in the Midwest until third grade. When I
| entered the California public school system, I was in some ways
| years ahead of my class (especially in reading comprehension). I
| coasted through every gifted program they threw at me until high
| school. Montessori gave me a huge advantage at one of the most
| critical stages in my development. I wish I could have been there
| longer.
| j45 wrote:
| The Reggio Emeila approach might be what some parents are looking
| for when they've heard about Montessori.
|
| It was designed for children after ww2 to reintegrate with their
| neighborhoods and communities after being shut ins and isolated
| from other children. It has turned out to have especially
| meaningful parallels in the past few years.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggio_Emilia_approach
|
| I have heard a lot about Montessori and how it's relative to the
| practitioner. One thing that comes up is how reintegrating into
| society can be harder.
| JustAPerson wrote:
| Yes, I went to a Montessori school through 6th grade (now 25
| years old). I have mixed feelings about the experience.
|
| I agree that it did well to set my up academically. I ended up
| going to middle/high schools that were relatively average
| academically, so I was pretty strong in all subjects in
| comparison to my peers. Ultimately I went to a very prestigious
| college and now work in a wonderful finance job I love. However
| in the many years of therapy I've had as an adult, I continue to
| identify Montessori school as a foundational contributor to my
| social anxiety, and ultimately my ensuing clinical depression
| over a lack of social life which haunted most of my college
| years.
|
| My Montessori school had about 15-25 kids / class year. Some of
| the larger years were split into two groups with separate
| teachers. Every year, maybe one or two kids left to go to other
| schools and one or two new kids joined, but for the most part I
| grew up with the same core set of children for seven years. I
| honestly believe this had a permanent negative effect on my
| ability to socialize and form new friendships that I am only
| barely beginning to correct over a decade later. Admittedly I did
| not participate in any extracurricular outside of Montessori
| school (particularly because it had its own after-school
| programs). So when I transitioned to a public school for
| middle/high school, it was a sharp culture shock and I definitely
| struggled to fit in.
|
| I think Montessori schools are worthwhile academically, but you
| should be careful to keep your children in contact with other
| kids outside the Montessori bubble.
| Moissanite wrote:
| I had never heard of Montessori schools before this thread so
| I'm sure there is more going on than I'm aware of - but I
| wanted to point out that what you describe here:
|
| > school had about 15-25 kids / class year. Some of the larger
| years were split into two groups with separate teachers. Every
| year, maybe one or two kids left to go to other schools and one
| or two new kids joined, but for the most part I grew up with
| the same core set of children for several years.
|
| seems perfectly normal from a UK primary school perspective (up
| to age 11 or 12 depending on the area). I'm surprised to hear
| that kids younger than that age would be expected to have
| larger peer groups in the US.
| wccrawford wrote:
| I went to school in a rural area of the US and we also had
| about 20 kids in most classes. It started to get a little
| more crowded towards high school as there seemed to be a lot
| of people moving to the area and it didn't seem to be
| expected. But everyone was worried there were too many kids
| in class when there were 30 at that point.
|
| So I think this varies quite a lot across the US. I tend to
| feel that large cities have more crowded classes than rural
| areas, but I have no data for that.
| JustAPerson wrote:
| Huh, is that the maximum number of students of the same age?
| To be clear, the Montessori school I went to had a little
| over 100 students with all 6 class years combined.
|
| For context, in the US many public middle/high schools are
| like two orders of magnitude larger per class year. Many
| schools have like 1000 kids / class year.
| matthewowen wrote:
| The 38th biggest high school in the US is Cypress Bay, with
| 3980 students (presumably over four years).
|
| 1000 kids / class year is quite unusual!
|
| https://highschoolguide.org/624/top-100-largest-high-
| schools...
| Moissanite wrote:
| It would be fairly typical for a UK primary school (up to
| age 11) to have up to 30 kids per class, but only 1 class
| per year - so ~210 kids total. Some schools have 2 classes
| per year, so double that for 400-500 in the whole school -
| but that many is rare in my experience.
|
| Secondary school (11-16) is more commonly around 30 per
| class, 7-12 classes per year, 5 year groups in the school -
| so 1000-1500 kids. 16-18 can either be at the school (which
| would then be a smaller cohort than the 15-16 year group
| due to some people going elsewhere), or an external college
| which is highly variable in size.
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| In France, a typical primary school will have between 100
| and 200 kids total maybe 250 in Paris but that would be a
| large one. A middle school will be between 400 and 800
| students and a high school around 1000.
|
| 1000 kids / class year is unheard of. That seems huge to me
| to the point I can't understand how it would work. I knew
| mostly everyone in my class year up to high school and even
| then I probably knew more than half. Might explain why the
| social scene is far less brutal here than in the US.
| agent008t wrote:
| It is also the norm in parts of Eastern Europe - having the
| same 20-30 class year between the ages of 6-7 and 16-17.
|
| Could it be that the social life at the 'prestigious college'
| was just rubbish, e.g. geared towards extraverted mba-types
| with 'default' social activities being clubbing and drinking?
| WastingMyTime89 wrote:
| > Every year, maybe one or two kids left to go to other schools
| and one or two new kids joined, but for the most part I grew up
| with the same core set of children for seven years. I honestly
| believe this had a permanent negative effect on my ability to
| socialize and form new friendships that I am only barely
| beginning to correct over a decade later.
|
| While I believe your experience to be entirely legitimate, what
| you are describing is the norm throughout most of Europe and I
| can assure you that most of us are socially adjusted (or at
| least somewhat socially adjusted).
| foobarian wrote:
| We have a Montessori nearby we considered, but ultimately
| decided it was too risky due to the small class size - if we
| went in blind and ended up with a bunch of kids ours didn't get
| along with it would be painful to roll back.
|
| The local public school seems to be fine (this is
| elementary/middle grades). Thinking about going from there to a
| more elite private high school though, biggest downside being
| that it will require a bit of a commute.
|
| I wish you could load this all up into a world simulator and
| see which option worked out best 10 years into the future :-)
| em-bee wrote:
| i am very confused by the reasoning for your choice. i
| believe the smaller the class size, the less likely there are
| going to be any problems. for one, the teacher will have more
| time for each child and be able to notice and deal with
| conflicts, and also your child will spend more time with the
| same kids, and so they will have more opportunity to get
| along.
|
| but most of all, i do not believe that children can not learn
| to get along over time. so any issue with kids not getting
| along is going to be temporary.
| foobarian wrote:
| It was mostly a numbers thing. If probability of any given
| kid being a good match is p, I wanted a good chance of
| getting 3-4 good matches i.e. wanted (1-p)^(N-4) to be
| small, while not losing too much quality due to
| overpopulated class. I thought a cohort of 20 in the class
| year was too small. We've also had a cautionary experience
| with an earlier grade where too many classmates were
| aggressive little shits who were no fun to deal with
| (though with enough good eggs to counterbalance).
| em-bee wrote:
| ok, i do agree that prior bad experience does shape ones
| expectations, and i could not say that i would not allow
| my self to be influenced by such an experience. that
| said, from an outside perspective, i don't think the odds
| are stacked like that. from my personal experience, a
| large class size doesn't make it more likely for any one
| child to make friends. on the contrary. in my class of
| 25-30 kids i had no friends at all. i believe that a
| smaller class of say 15 kids would have increased the
| opportunities to make friends because there would be less
| opportunities for others to exclude me from their
| activities.
|
| even if your child makes friends easily, large classes
| allow the class to split into multiple subgroups, cliques
| that stick together. the smaller the class, the less
| likely this should happen. at least that is what my
| intuition suggests. i would put the limit for that to
| 10-15 kids though. any more than that is an invitation to
| form subgroups.
|
| but we also must not forget the montessori aspect here,
| which has a strong influence on the group dynamics and
| individual childrens behavior.
|
| for one, i believe that the montessori approach is
| driving and motivating children in a way that they simply
| don't show as much negative behavior as they would
| exhibit in a traditional class.
| simiones wrote:
| At least in my country (Romania), the norm in all public
| schools is to have the same set of ~30 children you'll go to
| school every day with from grade 0-1 (6-7 years old) to grade 8
| (14 years old). Since there are very few to no electives,
| you'll spend ~all of your time in school with all of these kids
| every day for 8 years - and virtually everyone in the country
| has this experience (private schools are very rare).
|
| Edit to add: the whole school would have significantly more
| people, typically around 5-10 30-pupil classes for each of the
| 8-9 years. So perhaps the difference is the total number of
| children in the same school - though typically interaction
| between different classes, even of the same year, was far less
| than within-class.
| wholien wrote:
| Same in China (Shanghai). Same 30 to 35 students in the same
| class would do 1st to 6th grade. Then you'd usually go to a
| different school for 7th to 9th grades, then take a test to
| get into a high school for 10th to 12th grades. All three
| would have the same class you'd stick with, usually with way
| more intra-class interaction than inter-class interaction.
|
| Sports was usually one thing that was more inter-class, but
| that was it.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| Same here in Sweden. All school is like this. Not just
| Montessorri.
| morgelgluff wrote:
| It used to be the norm to mix up the groups every three
| years, when transitioning between low/mid/high school
| stadium.
|
| I appreciated that change of social dynamics every time.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| >, but for the most part I grew up with the same core set of
| children for seven years
|
| uuh this is how regular school is in Sweden...
|
| You have a class of people in grade 1-6, then grade 7-9 is a
| new school, then high school is a new school.
|
| But I guess we all have anxiety so ur right xD
| odessacubbage wrote:
| there are advantages to both systems. alternative schools are
| more like an idealized & harmonious version of the world while
| public ed mirrors the dysfunction and corporatocracy of 'real
| life' (and not to mention the blatant incuriosity & joylessness
| of managerial figures)
|
| hippie school teaches you how to love the world, state school
| teaches you how to live in it.
| griffinkelly wrote:
| I transferred to a Montessori school at age 10 and was there to
| age 12; my family moved overseas after that, so I couldn't
| continue. That said, it was the first time in my life that I
| started to enjoy learning, and really started to love math. The
| fact that I could learn at my own pace, and get individualized
| learning at the same time from my teachers was life changing for
| me compared to my prior public school. It's left an impression on
| me to this day.
| bmelton wrote:
| I was hesitant to put my daughter into a bad / violent public
| school system (ranked bottom 5% in the nation at the time) so we
| opted for Montessori. She's in college now on a blended
| CompSci/math major, but in (non-Montessori) high school she
| developed a Lego robot that has landed her an exhibit in the
| Smithsonian National Museum of American History, which is
| probably never a bad thing for her burgeoning career.
| ispo wrote:
| My daughter is better.
| borbulon wrote:
| My daughter went to a Montessori until she was in 2nd grade. Her
| friend went through 5th grade. They are both together again in
| 6th, in the same middle school, and her friend is really
| struggling with math.
|
| FWIW, my daughter also struggled with math coming into 2nd grade
| out of Montessori, but it being second grade math, it wasn't hard
| for her to catch up.
|
| Also, something to watch out for: Montessori is not a registered
| trademark, so any school can call itself a Montessori school,
| without offering a Montessori education.
| cadr wrote:
| I did Montessori though 4th grade. Moving to public school in 5th
| grade was a shock because, while I had been doing algebra self-
| directed, I never memorized my multiplication tables. I _really_
| resented being forced to memorize lists that I could just look up
| in a table (though I would freely memorize other things). So when
| I got into 5th grade, I failed all my math tests. I decided that
| didn 't feel good, so I memorized those really fast. :)
|
| In retrospect, I am really glad I moved a bit earlier, because I
| think going straight from Montessori to 7th grade (junior high
| there) would have been a big jump. Moving over while still in
| elementary school eased that. But that was me and my situation.
| digerata wrote:
| I have two kids in it, one 11 year old boy and one 8 year old
| girl. The school we were in switched to Montessori 4 years ago.
| The younger loves it. The older very much dislikes the open
| nature of the school day and struggles to complete tasks. His
| teacher has had to modify and provide him with much more
| structure than you would normally receive. You might say that's
| because he didn't start in Montessori from the beginning. But
| knowing my child, I think Montessori doesn't work for some kids,
| in the same way rigid traditional schools don't work for others.
| doctor_eval wrote:
| Montessori is awesome, have put two kids through it and
| everything about the approach is wonderful. We committed serious
| financial resources (for us) to do this.
|
| However, as others have said, the individual school can have a
| huge influence on the quality. We moved interstate a year ago and
| sadly the new Montessori school doesn't even have a Montessori
| teacher in my kids class, so we are leaving.
|
| So make sure you go to an established school where the teachers
| are Montessori trained and have been in the school a long time.
| That's the #1 metric of a Montessori school if you ask me.
| gabcbrown wrote:
| I went to a Montessori School from k-8 then switched into a
| fairly fast paced public school district for high school. I
| absolutely loved Montessori, and feel very lucky that I had the
| opportunity to attend. I felt a lot of ownership/independence
| about my learning from a young age, and it really supported my
| curiosity about the world. Interactions with teachers felt like
| collaboration, not being told what to do, so I felt trusted and
| it felt very safe to make mistakes and learn. There was no
| homework, which meant the school day had lots of time built in to
| work on assignments and move around, which I didn't realize how
| much I appreciated until I got to high school and was sitting at
| a desk all day with hours of homework every night. There were
| lots of opportunities to learn from people who were really
| excited to teach what they were teaching. We got to do lots of
| weird science experiments, big class projects, woodworking,
| learning about ancient history, several different languages, lots
| of different instruments... the list goes on.
|
| There were two notable challenges for me, though not everyone in
| my class experienced these. Some of it will also be limited if
| you only have them there through 6th grade.
|
| The first was figuring out how to socially transition from a
| small private school that effectively functioned like a big
| family, to a large public school. I didn't really learn how to
| meet people being at the same small school for so long, and the
| culture shock of leaving of leaving Montessori was pretty bad.
| (Both with the way people my age approached learning and the way
| the public school system operated, i.e. everything is for a grade
| nothing else matters).
|
| The second is because of some combination of the curiosity driven
| learning and the particular sequence of teachers I had, I managed
| to avoid getting a good foundation in algebra because I didn't
| really feel like it. This turned out to be a big problem for me
| for many years, partially because no one realized so I kept being
| put in higher math classes, doing well through brute force, and
| being very frustrated and confused about all of it. I'm now
| getting an advanced degree in math, so everything worked itself
| out, but I do think math specifically wants a little more
| structure at those early steps than what I got.
|
| Overall it was still absolutely worth it for me. Sometimes I
| wonder who I would be now if my curiosity hadn't been so strongly
| reinforced when I was young. Happy to answer any specific
| questions! Hope this helps.
| boringg wrote:
| Thanks for sharing - glad to hear you managed to get through
| your lower level algebraic struggles! That's a tough thing to
| have to fix.
|
| One of the things you mentioned (and i've seen in many
| comments) is the transition from Montessori to another system
| (an aside: usually while implying saying how poor the
| structure/goals of the other system is).
|
| My product development part of my brain points to this as as
| systemic problem that could try to be addressed by the
| school/parents - though that is such a holistic change that the
| best you could do is minimize impacts but maybe that should be
| considered.
|
| The other part is that it seems that most people have very
| positive memories of their Montessori days.
|
| As I see it the big family, highly personalized, explore at
| your own pace, keep children curious, unstructured but guided
| combination is very attractive but the concern is really that
| transition after the fact to a larger more structured
| institution & smaller amount of emphasis on athletics are the
| sticky points.
|
| Without going into a larger debate about education - I kind of
| wish the state system was less results oriented and exploratory
| in the early years for all children and then the program
| changed as they got older. I recognize there are inherent
| challenges.
|
| I'm curious if the two challenges that you had (which would
| probably be different challenges for other children) could have
| been identified at an early time and given some support - or if
| you think that struggling through both of them help develop
| your internal strength without sacrificing too much?
| gabcbrown wrote:
| I definitely think that these two things could have been
| identified and supported. It's actually very interesting
| reading the comments here that they are pretty common
| experiences, and structurally that makes sense to me. I'm not
| sure these two things helped me develop "internal strength"
| as much as being supported in lots of other ways
| counterbalanced it.
|
| The math learning was fine for me until about 7th grade, so
| you might not even encounter this. If you're mathematically
| inclined and and have the resources to support, I think it's
| fairly straightforward to keep an eye on how math is
| progressing and boost. My parents did identify that I wasn't
| prepared for high school math, but didn't follow through in
| ways that actually fixed the situation. They both went
| through pretty rigorous traditional math education, and so
| probably didn't even realize this was something that could
| slip through. I probably would have been back on track with
| either of my of them sitting down to teach me algebra, or an
| after school program, or such. Instead what happened is I was
| handed an algebra textbook to work through over the summer,
| which honestly I half succeeded at after being in Montessori
| for so long, but I really needed more
| guidance/pacing/accountability. It kind of sucked going
| through high school and early college math without that
| foundation, I'm not sure I learned much from that struggle
| other than the usual "I must be naturally bad at math".
|
| The social transition is a harder one, and bound to happen
| given how differently Montessori and the generals public
| school system operates. I echo what the other people here are
| saying of making sure your kids get to socialize outside of
| the Montessori environment, especially practicing meeting new
| peers. Many of my classmates had a hard time at first and
| then figured it out, it took me a bit longer. I am grateful
| though that I managed to hold onto the "weirdness" of being
| curious and passionate about learning, even if it made high
| school hard at times.
|
| I also don't think being excited about learning and being
| well socialized are mutually exclusive! Generally my friends
| who did better transitioning had more social parents to model
| off of, or other previously Montessori students at their high
| school. Something that probably would have helped me is
| staying in regular contact with the people I went to
| Montessori with. Then we could navigate the change it
| together, even if we were all at different schools, and the
| social switch over wouldn't have been so total and isolating.
| My younger sister had a few friends switch to the same high
| school together and they adapted much much faster. I wonder
| if parents/kids of parents who move around a lot have any
| advice on this?
| jkestner wrote:
| I feel you on the challenges. I had the same culture shock
| going to high school, even though it was only a smallish
| Catholic school. Learning how to work within a system is a
| critical skill!
|
| On math, my early elementary teacher and my father (also a
| teacher) combined Montessori math, which spoke to (or
| influenced) my visual/tangible style of thinking, and lots of
| classic drills to internalize math facts. Or maybe it worked
| out in contrast to your experience because something clicked
| and I loved learning math early. (High school beat that out of
| me.)
| gabcbrown wrote:
| It took me a few tries to learn that lesson!
|
| I feel pretty lucky that I finally found math that I enjoyed
| and made sense after hating it for so long. I didn't do a ton
| of memorization/drilling and I never really got into the
| world of fun math puzzles, so in high school I was both
| underprepared and never got to do the cool stuff. It's much
| easier to convince myself as an adult that fluency in
| algebraic computation is useful because I now have examples
| that I care about being able to work through.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I don't have personal experience with Montessori, but one of my
| best friends is a long time Montessori teacher. Just posting to
| echo the comments stating that different Montessori schools will
| operate and feel different, so do your research before enrolling
| to be sure the experience will be a good fit for your child.
| jerrysievert wrote:
| I went through 4th grade. Afterward, I found school boring, and
| refused to do rote homework (because it was not how I learn
| things, and thus a boring waste to me).
| movedx wrote:
| My wife did. She's now also a teacher. If you've got a contact
| email, I'm sure she'd be happy to answers any specific questions.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| My daycare had it. I don't really know if it made a difference or
| what I think about it or what it even is. My mom liked it, I
| guess?
| [deleted]
| 3D30497420 wrote:
| I attended a private Montessori for elementary school, then was
| home-schooled for middle school/junior high. I then went to a
| public (magnet art school) for high school.
|
| The gap did provide a bit of a buffer, but I nonetheless did not
| care for the transition. While the systems were quite different,
| I believe it was more the difference in the teacher quality that
| had the largest impact. I was fortunate to go to a small,
| exceptional Montessori school before such things became
| ridiculously expensive, while the public school, although it had
| a few very good teachers, also had some very marginal ones
| (basically, tenured and terrible).
|
| If the quality of teaching is similar, then I expect the
| transition would have been much easier. As others have noted,
| shop around since the teaching quality, rather than the teaching
| structure, is ultimately what was the starkest change for me.
| ritzaco wrote:
| I was homeschooled, but we used a lot of Montessori principles
| for that age range. Completely recommend. I can echo the other
| comments already here about how I think it strongly promoted
| curiosity, independence and a love of learning, at the cost of
| some 'social adaption' - for me, mainly when I went to university
| and everyone had shared experiences that I was missing, but
| overall totally worth it IMO if the Montessori school is good.
| gwnywg wrote:
| I go with montessori with my kids. My older started at the age of
| 4 and is now 7, I'm very satisfied with results I see (and I
| don't push for results, I still remember my education and so I
| take it easy with my kids). My older could read, write, count and
| do simple math before he went to primary school (which is also
| following montessori principles). He now picks up simple
| programming and not because I push him (I encaurage whatever he
| feels like doing, like playing the piano or playing chess or
| doing ice scating or football)
| codingrightnow wrote:
| Could you share what programming he's doing? Is he using a
| specific app?
| gwnywg wrote:
| We use helpgidget.org (also found on HN :) )
| smolder wrote:
| I did attend this type of school. It was only for kindergarten,
| but I have interesting memories of it, and feel like it had a
| strong influence on the rest of my education and life thereafter.
| Radiot88 wrote:
| Yes, my education began with Pre-K Montessori, and then
| transitioned to prep school in 7th grade. The dynamics of my
| family were chaotic at the moment of transition, so there was not
| much support for me, and the transition difficult.
|
| 40 years later, the self-driven learning informs my work,
| ceeative practice, and ongoing learning. Montessori taught me to
| look for the next challenge and embrace it.
|
| Dyslexia / dysgraphia / learning differences were not diagnosed
| in Montessori school, where I excelled at mathematics. When the
| pressures of prep school ran into the reading writing differences
| problems ensued.
|
| The bottom line is Montessori taught me to challenge myself and
| gave me a lifelong love of learning and independent study.
| subpixel wrote:
| My wife was a Montessori 'lifer', this topic actually came up in
| conversation no our second date, and our child is currently the
| happiest Montessori pre-k kid, perhaps ever.
|
| As others have pointed out, the Montessori program is strong, but
| the execution is everything.
|
| FWIW my wife, who is in her 40s, regularly visits her Montessori
| campus when visiting her hometown, and is friends with several of
| her classmates from the time, all of whom might give you the
| impression that Montessori is some sort of MLM thing to judge by
| their unbridled enthusiasm.
|
| EDIT - we plan to start our child in public kindergarten, because
| money. Tough choice, but that $12k isn't peanuts to us.
| ranbato wrote:
| We put our 2 oldest kids in Montessori.
|
| The oldest one loved it and thrived in Montessori and stayed in
| it until we started a Charter school to avoid the local Middle
| School.
|
| The second one HATED Montessori and we had to move him out to the
| local elementary school.
|
| In the end it came down to personality. The second kid had a
| personality that just wouldn't work in a Montessori environment.
| He would do what he wanted to when he wanted to and would refuse
| to be redirected in any way, shape or form. Same school, mostly
| the same teachers, but totally opposite outcomes.
| czbond wrote:
| My wife is a Montessori teacher of 1-3rd. From what she's told
| me, students transitioning to Montessori should do it as early as
| possible. Apparently older students in the "established" system
| have a hard time achieving the mental switch in thinking.
|
| What I've enjoyed is watching how lessons are very "touch"
| oriented. Seems every lesson has a visual or touch oriented wood
| tool.
|
| The students are dividing 6 digit numbers in 2nd/3rd (!).
| alexb_ wrote:
| I'm curious as to what the "failure state" of a Montessori
| education is. There's a lot to support that good Montessori
| teachers are better than good "traditional" schoolteachers, but
| what about the bad teachers? Assessing a system based on good
| conditions only can miss a lot - anyone here have a bad teacher
| while going through one of these programs?
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| Yes
|
| My oldest daughter attended private Montessori until age 12 when
| she transitioned to an exurb public Middle school in an extremely
| high income area.
|
| Transition was easy because the Montessori middle school she was
| going to was new and hadn't gotten their legs yet, so had a
| pretty lackluster program. Adding to that the lack of
| extracurricular and club/team opportunities, and small class
| sizes, Montessori method starts be become a hindrance to learning
| the complex social dynamics you need to survive IRL.
|
| My other kids transitioned to US public education at 8 and 10
| respectively with no issues
|
| The most difficult transition was for the 8 year old, simply
| because her personality fits the more loosely structured method
| of Montessori better, however this faded pretty quickly
|
| Should be noted also that my kids are extremely naturally gifted
| and generally live in the "AP/Honors" world, so would most likely
| flourish anywhere. YMMV
| phonescreen_man wrote:
| " Should be noted also that my kids are extremely naturally
| gifted and generally live in the "AP/Honors" world, so would
| most likely flourish anywhere. YMMV"
|
| All children are extremely naturally gifted, it's the world
| around that always manages to grind it out of most of them. I
| think that also represents what Montessori was aiming for when
| re-thinking education.
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| I love the charity of this, and I think as a Heuristic this
| is a good way to approach pedagogy.
|
| Worth recognizing however that natural variability means
| there's going to be people with harder times in certain
| areas.
|
| Our job (collectively) as educators is to make it easy to
| integrate the wide range of human diversity into regular
| life, so as to make life easier for everyone in total.
| deathclassic wrote:
| "All children are extremely naturally gifted, it's the world
| around that always manages to grind it out of most of them."
|
| What a load of horseshit. Say that in the special education
| class with 8th graders that can't read or use the bathroom on
| their own, despite the best efforts and attention of their
| teachers.
| alexb_ wrote:
| Responding to a post saying children are naturally smart
| and gifted with "Well what about the disabled children?"
| isn't helpful to anybody, and purposefully misses the point
| of what they are saying.
| 2snakes wrote:
| I have very old memories (6? or earlier) for attending for a
| approximately a year. It might have been Waldorf, it might have
| been Montessori.
|
| There were several young people who I later transferred in HS
| back into their district and remembered.
|
| Lots of little learning puzzles and nap time. LOTS Of stories. In
| fact I would say the curriculum, and this is a long time ago, was
| primarily fables besides what was self-directed and puzzles. The
| teachers were mostly kind.
| rco8786 wrote:
| Not me, but my wife did. Through 5th or 6th grade, I forget. She
| has very fond memories of it, and hated the transition into
| traditional school. Her account is that once she got there she
| was a) appalled at being expected to sit at a desk all day
| listening to teacher's talk or doing worksheets and b) bored as
| hell because she was significantly further along in her own
| education. Worth noting that she ended up at a pretty bottom of
| the barrel public school.
| forgueam wrote:
| My daughter (14) is currently going through this scenario. She
| was in a Montessori school from pre-school through 8th grade. The
| school she went to did not offer 9-12 so we had to transition her
| to a more traditional school for high school. We were extremely
| concerned that the daily classroom structure would be a problem,
| but she's adapted wonderfully. Despite never having traditional
| grades, tests, and quizzes, she currently has all A's and B's and
| is doing great. Speaking for myself, I don't think I give my kids
| enough credit for just how adaptable/resilient they are.
| pibechorro wrote:
| My mom is a Montessori teacher of many many years and I did
| summercamps as a swim instructor in one. While they are all
| reviewed by the Montessori board and certified, they are all a
| bit different. Shop around, the gap in quality between different
| schools can be quite apparent.
|
| That being said, I would not hesitate to put my kids in one,
| especially over public schools which are a disaster.
| jkestner wrote:
| My mother's also a longtime Montessori teacher, and yeah,
| there's a lot of variety. Montessori is not a protected
| trademark. Look for AMI-certified for a school that has to meet
| some standards. I attended Montessori from 2-14, but have no
| advice that can be generalized to every kid or school.
|
| But doesn't the same variety apply for public schools? They're
| not all a disaster. My kid goes to a good dual language
| immersion public school where in addition to academics, they're
| learning collaboration and empathy with people from all walks
| of life, not just the ones whose parents drop them off in a
| Tesla. The school is underfunded, doesn't have the resources to
| market itself, and teachers are burning out, but if some of the
| hyper-enthusiastic Montessori parents I know applied their
| energy to a public school, it'd kick ass. That's the choice I
| made--I'm on the PTA and am building their makerspace. Others
| are leading gardening or composting programs. Not everyone has
| the time to do that, but we shouldn't be mere consumers of
| education, as every parent who helps their kids do homework
| knows.
| scottshea wrote:
| My daughter went from 18 months through 8th grade and my wife
| runs the school so, as you may guess, we are big fans. One thing
| to look for is the certifications. In the US there are (at least)
| two main Montessori Certification groups, AMI & AMS. The school
| my wife runs is AMI but I think AMS would be just as good.
|
| What is slightly different than other experiences here is that
| the school is a Charter school which poses some challenges but
| does offer Montessori beyond the normal tuition based model.
|
| As for my daughter, her transition has been fairly smooth. The
| high school she goes to has more than 10x the students as her old
| school so is much larger. On the other hand, her grades are good,
| and she is involved in a number of clubs too.
|
| Montessori is not for everyone but I definitely recommend
| checking it out.
| glhast wrote:
| I attended a Montessori from Kindergarten to 5th grade in the
| 90's.
|
| I loved it. The teachers let me teach an art and drawing class in
| 2nd grade. Another student taught an algebra class (he's a
| brilliant cancer researcher now). I co-wrote, illustrated, and
| sold a comic book with another classmate in 4th grade during
| class time.
|
| It allowed me to complete the curriculum on my own time and held
| me accountable.
|
| Montessori was something I made my own, not something that was
| happening to me.
|
| The transition out wasn't that bad. I did 5th grade again (June
| baby) at a standard private school. The biggest things: - I had
| never written a formal essay, or an essay outline. - I had never
| taken nor prepared for a real test
|
| Like others here, I never really enjoyed school as much after
| Montessori.
|
| For the right kid, it can cultivate curiosity, independence,
| collaboration, and a love for self managed learning. For the
| wrong kid, it can be an unstructured nightmare.
| DemocracyFTW2 wrote:
| I went to a Montessori kindergarten and I'm sure to this day it
| must have been the best kindergarten in the world. I remember one
| single time that I felt uneasy there because I had to stay with
| another group for some time, and the lady in that group was
| thought to be rather strict. I did whatever I thought I was
| expected to do and probably didn't look too happy, for at some
| point she turned to me to tell me, "you don't have to do that,
| y'know, it's totally up to you". For a kid too shy too ask that
| was a great deal. It still counts in my life although it's half a
| century ago. Thank you Mr and Ms Montessori.
| msravi wrote:
| Sent my kid to a Montessori in kindergarten. The thing I liked
| about it is that they put kids of different ages together. From
| what I've seen, kids learn fastest when they're put with kids
| slightly more proficient than themselves.
| huevosabio wrote:
| I did Montessori from kindergarten until grade 6 (age 12), in
| Mexico.
|
| I really, really like it.
|
| I think it reinforces the kids natural curiosity.
|
| In middle school, my first year out of Montessori, I was shocked
| at how little other kids cared about learning. I remember the
| teacher discussing something about astronomy, and I raised my
| hand to comment on some fact I had read, and what followed was
| mockery by my peers and antipathy by the teacher. I learned
| quickly to never again show that I cared about learning.
|
| This was a huge contrast with Montessori where most us were eager
| to learn and share what we had learned. I had friends that had
| built the solar system to scale out of their own initiative (in
| hindsight they may have taken some liberties, nonetheless).
|
| I kept tabs more or less my classmates that came out of the
| Montessori, and I think they overall overperformed the non
| Montessori people in middle school and high school. Harder to
| gauge adulthood success.
|
| I also liked that they had children of various years in the same
| classroom. I think it promoted knowledge sharing from the older
| kids to the younger ones, and it removed barriers for
| friendships. Some of my best friends back then where older than I
| was. That would never happen in middle or high school.
|
| Finally, I don't think it's perfect. Because we were all expected
| to join a traditional school after grade 6, the school made some
| effort to make sure that the outgoing class had covered all the
| basic requirements (a not necessarily a simple thing since we had
| great liberty of pursuing what was interesting to us).
|
| All in all, I would strongly recommend it.
| HDThoreaun wrote:
| Hard to say how much of this was the difference between public
| and private school though right? The montessori kids had
| parents who cared about education enough to pay the tuition.
| adolph wrote:
| > I was shocked at how little other kids cared about learning.
|
| One of my children started public from 1-5 in Montessori and
| found the same (and at a somewhat selective public school).
| SQueeeeeL wrote:
| Damn, that part about being excited to learn and share
| knowledge with your peers only to be shouted down dredged up
| some memories. Most American schools are so regimented that any
| exploration of knowledge is actually sneered down. How did our
| communities let it get so bad...
| barry-cotter wrote:
| > Most American schools are so regimented that any
| exploration of knowledge is actually sneered down.
|
| America's not special. Schools are very similarly run in
| every government school system I know of and almost all the
| others. https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=11375
|
| > How did our communities let it get so bad...
|
| If schools provide childcare and sort and rank the children a
| large majority of parents are satisfied.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| In my public and private school experience it was both the
| other kids in the class who didn't like to be outshined as
| well as (some, not all) of the teachers who couldn't be
| bothered with anything outside of the textbook and did not
| like to be questioned.
|
| I recall once in 6th grade we were talking about marine
| sponges and the teacher had brought in one of those loofah
| sponges, passed it around and said that it was a sponge from
| the ocean. I raised my hand and said "no, that's a loofah.
| It's from a plant that's in the cucumber family. I know
| because my grandmother grows them." And he was like "No, this
| is a sponge from the ocean. Your grandmother can't grow
| these." There was no changing his mind and he didn't
| appreciate being contradicted.
| tobyjsullivan wrote:
| I'll note that this comment assumes standardized education
| was somehow better in the past. We all have specific memories
| of being inspired by a teacher or something but that seems
| like a happy accident more than anything intentional.
|
| The universal education system we have today was never meant
| to "inspire learning" or anything similar. It was designed as
| a vaccine for illiteracy across a handful of subjects. I
| would argue it continues to deliver on that goal quite well
| (all things considered).
|
| As someone who never attended, what Montessori offers is more
| the University-style inspiration and idea of learning for the
| sake of learning. This sounds amazing for the right people
| but I find it unlikely it could ever be universal.
|
| Students who go to Montessori will have parent who believe in
| education in one way or another. The students will learn
| these values from their parents and so there's an inherent
| selection bias in the attendees and the positive outcomes.
|
| However, education is not universally valued across our
| society. Public school exists for everyone to hit that
| minimum literacy bar.
|
| What would be great is something like Montessori for every
| student who wants it. A different style of school universally
| available for the families that value it.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| My school at least tried, we had separate programs for
| "gifted" students separate from kids who were just there for
| the babysitting. Kind of dystopian, but I was never mocked
| for wanting to learn something even though my school was in a
| bad area.
| sublinear wrote:
| I had the same experience. They separated us "gifted" kids
| very early on.
|
| I had no negative experiences other than being a bit out of
| touch with the culture of my area, which isn't necessarily
| a bad thing either.
|
| I had mostly ok teachers and no problems learning or making
| friends. I recall there actually being a lot of free time
| to just study whatever we wanted most days. We never
| struggled on the mandatory standardized tests, so the
| system left us alone. It was very uneventful and boring.
| boringg wrote:
| I sometimes feel like most people would rather drag people
| down to their level then let them run free.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| Especially bad because it's not even gifted kids, it was
| literally just one class for the kids who wanted to be
| there with the rest of the classes being for the kids who
| didnt. Yet people want to act like it's discriminatory to
| just put effort in. Plenty of bad students in the gifted
| program, but they were there because the teachers saw
| them trying.
| kqr wrote:
| I did Montessori between ages 6 and 15, then transitioned into
| more traditional education for the last three years.
|
| The main difference was how much more challenging Montessori
| education was. The teachers really observed me and how I
| performed on assignments, and they could tell when I needed more
| of a challenge, and assign something to me that was just at the
| edge of what I was able to do. In the traditional education, if I
| consistently just did the bare minimum expected of everyone, I
| was a double-plus A plus student.
|
| I was also allowed to explore subjects that interested me in
| greater depth, as long as it didn't come at the expense of
| subjects I found less interesting. I learned a lot of English and
| maths in the first few years!
|
| If I had a disagreement with a Montessori teacher, we would sit
| down together and have a mature conversation about it and reach
| some sort of mutually beneficial solution (yes, even when I was
| under the age of 10!) In the more traditional education, there
| was the assumption that if I disagreed with the teacher, I was
| wrong and should shut up. (I ended up not passing a few classes
| in the traditional school because of disagreements with the
| teacher - I simply stopped attending the class at that point.
| Didn't seem productive to go on.)
|
| I also had a lot more spare time in the Montessori school. As
| long as I did well on the work assigned to me and didn't bother
| my classmates, the teachers didn't really care how I spent my
| time. I could sit in a corner and read or do long multiplication,
| or go out and kick around a soccer ball. I would like to think
| this helped me learn independence.
|
| On the other hand, I also have a notable lack of respect for
| authority figures. I like to think this is good, but it has also
| gotten me into trouble for disagreeing with hardline managers,
| refusing to do things I think are unethical, etc. I think some of
| this can be attributed to the Montessori school, where respect
| was based on fact, rational argument, and patient listening,
| rather than who should be commanding whom.
| boringg wrote:
| In terms of authority figure respect - - I always get the
| feeling that's something thats innate. I have the same aversion
| to authority and has gotten me into trouble not reading the
| politics of a situation / power dynamic. I probably could
| attribute it to be raised in a public school system though my
| recollection is did respect the teachers. Interesting take.
| ramtatatam wrote:
| > On the other hand, I also have a notable lack of respect for
| authority figures.
|
| I went through "classical" education system (with lots of
| aggression, as somebody else already mentioned in another
| thread here) - and can tell I also obtained no respect for
| authority figures. School taught me to survive school by
| tricking those teachers who had no respect to pupils. Give them
| what they want and you'r going to be fine - even if you don't
| learn anything useful. Same when it comes with relationships
| with other pupils, especially those aggressive ones. I observe
| my kids who I send to Montessori and can definitely tell they
| are not easy when it comes to disagreements - and I like it
| that way, it keeps reminding me that I have no right not to
| treat them with respect even when I'm tired or in hurry. I see
| teachers putting lots of attention to mutual respect as well.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| There might be some confusion over what "classical education"
| means. Do you mean a traditional/mainstream public school? Or
| classical as in structured around the trivium?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_education_movement
| riley_dog wrote:
| An old friend of mine, who's now a crazy antivaxxer, sends his
| kids to Montessori because the public schools won't take his
| kids. Makes me wonder what'll happen after Montessori.
| kashunstva wrote:
| My daughter attended Montessori through grade 8, with a stint of
| homeschool in there. She is in high school at an arts boarding
| school studying classical violin (well, and those academic things
| on the side...) She felt well prepared for the type of work
| required because of foundational experiences of independent work
| in Montessori. Transition was not difficult at all.
| deathclassic wrote:
| I was put into montessori preschool at around age 4 after my mom
| caught daycare workers abusing me. I liked it, was a fun time and
| I figured out how to read at around a 4th grade level at 5. The
| issues started when I got taken out of that environment and put
| into a normal one when I started grade school. You see, my
| preschool teacher noticed that I had ADHD, but that didn't really
| matter in a Montessori environment. But in traditional school,
| this means you get in trouble a lot, get terrible grades, and
| I've been almost kicked out of every school I've been to. I found
| the transition to traditional structured school traumatic. This
| was in early grade school too, I can imagine the experience of
| going from Montessori school to traditional school in later
| grades to be impossible, like trying to socialize a feral cat or
| something.
|
| Look OP, if you think school is about your kids learning you've
| got it very wrong. Wikipedia and arvix are for learning. School
| is state subsidized daycare, and social conditioning. Industrial
| society requires discipline, structure and obedience. Those
| values are not driven into a child's head in the Montessori,
| model. Do your kids a favor and get these things drilled into
| their heads early, before you have a bunch of intellectual bums
| laying around your house. Don't send your kids to Montessori
| school.
| antiterra wrote:
| It sounds like your experience was traumatic and that's really
| unfortunate. But, your experience is far from universal for
| either school type. Today, particularly with Section 504 plans,
| many schools are much more adept at accommodating ADHD and a
| number of other challenges. Kids who have slow handwriting
| development can use keyboards or text to speech. Kids who get
| extremely overwhelmed can take breaks in the hallway. Others
| who are bored by the offered curriculum are given access to
| Khan Academy. It's not universal and it can require some
| parental persistence to both create the plan and enforce its
| use, but it has helped a lot of kids.
|
| Public school taught me physics, calculus, history and a
| smattering of other topics I wouldn't have delved into on my
| own (for example, reverse polish notation.) It did not teach me
| discipline, structure or obedience (I was actually spanked by a
| grade school teacher, which seems unfathomable now.) As such, I
| was wholly unprepared for higher education. Some of this stuff
| might require direct intervention from the parent instead of
| simply relying on a school to take care of it.
| birracerveza wrote:
| Wow, this is terrible advice.
|
| You have to put in the effort yourself to teach them those
| values (if you can even call them that...) and that life is not
| all fun and games. That said, Montessori model schools are
| great for your children, even if they're just "glorified
| daycares" instead of school. Children need to play, it's how
| they learn everything, including how to enjoy life. Do not
| immediately throw them into a life of "discipline, structure
| and obedience". That's not what life is about.
| ericd wrote:
| I'm helping to manage a Montessori preschool, so I'm immersed
| in Montessori at the moment.
|
| There's a pretty consistent underlying structure to the day,
| and the kids are taught to eg sit quietly for the class
| gathering ("circle time"), so I don't think it's accurate to
| say that the kids are taught no discipline. The periods that
| they're asked to sit for aren't very long, it's preschool. But
| if you go an observe a class, they're actually extremely well
| behaved. During their work cycles, they go and get their work,
| they sit individually to complete their work for a bit, then
| they return it to the shelf as they found it. And they're
| learning relatively advanced reading, spelling, and math at 4.
|
| One thing to be aware of is that many Montessori schools,
| especially nowadays, are "Montessori-inspired", they don't
| actually go through the effort (and the hiring requirements) it
| takes to be accredited by AMS. It's more expensive to hire
| actual Montessori teachers, but the difference can be pretty
| incredible.
| eor wrote:
| I went to a Montessori school from pre-K through 6th grade.
| Overall I think it was a good experience. But the transition to
| traditional school was very rough. I was mostly fine
| academically, but socially it was brutal. I had been going to
| school with the same 10 people for most of my life, and then
| suddenly found myself in a crowd of hundreds of strangers with no
| clue how to make new friends. Add to that all the hormonal stuff
| going on with 12-13 year olds, and it's a bad scene. It took me
| about 3 years to acclimate. I think 7th grade is a particularly
| bad time to be making the transition. It might have been easier
| if I'd made the jump in grade 5 or 6.
| liveoneggs wrote:
| I went to certified and uncertified montessori until mid 5th
| grade after public kindergarten offended my mother. It was fine
| and nice (especially the certified school) but going into a
| regular school was a bit of a culture shock. The social structure
| of my tiny parochial school was just so different. I can't even
| imagine what kids in public middle school go through (although
| I'm about to experience it by proxy with my own kids).
|
| The montessori was probably a great fit for me because I couldn't
| sit in a desk all day after moving to regular school and got in a
| little trouble for being unable to do so until I was about 16.
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