[HN Gopher] Robot treats 500k plants per hour with 95% less chem...
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       Robot treats 500k plants per hour with 95% less chemicals [video]
        
       Author : zikohh
       Score  : 128 points
       Date   : 2022-11-16 20:39 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | zurtri wrote:
       | I am waiting for this kind of tech to become viable for smaller
       | 'hobby' type farms. you know, under 100 acres.
       | 
       | To get the spraying done by firing up a few drones would be
       | excellent.
       | 
       | Particularly with weeds that are in hard to reach places on the
       | farm.
        
         | Gualdrapo wrote:
         | > I am waiting for this kind of tech to become viable for
         | smaller 'hobby' type farms.
         | 
         | And, you know, cheap. And usable in difficult terrain.
         | 
         | I can't imagine my father, or any farmer who does their job at
         | small scales here in developing countries, being able to afford
         | technology like that.
        
       | Mountain_Skies wrote:
       | Love these types of advances though I wonder if weeds and pests
       | will adapt to outwit the robot or if our ability to adapt
       | automation to such changes simply will always/usually be too
       | rapid for nature to keep up.
        
         | searine wrote:
         | Pests will adapt to physical pest control like fire or crop
         | rotation by timing their life cycles to avoid it. Robots aren't
         | any different in that regard, if used without care pests could
         | hypothetically adapt to their usage.
         | 
         | The key to preventing this kind of adaptation is multiple modes
         | of action. Robots do offer that ability because they can be
         | used to both physically remove pests, and also chemically treat
         | pests like in the video.
         | 
         | If you have two to three robust modes of action, you can
         | basically prevent resistance from happening entirely.
        
         | goalieca wrote:
         | Firmware updates happen a lot faster than evolution. I
         | personally like the laser one and mechanical weeders
        
           | 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote:
           | Evolution might hijack the firmware update process now.
        
         | Vt71fcAqt7 wrote:
         | Well if the weeds adapt into corn to outwit the robot that
         | wouldn't be too bad.
        
           | empyrrhicist wrote:
           | Fun fact, that's sort of how we got Rye.
        
             | Vt71fcAqt7 wrote:
             | Wow, thanks for that fact!
             | 
             | >It is possible that rye traveled west from Asia Minor as a
             | minor admixture in wheat (possibly as a result of
             | Vavilovian mimicry), and was only later cultivated in its
             | own right.[0]
             | 
             | Also found this about rye while looking that up:
             | 
             | >Recently, scholars have discovered that rye, more than
             | other domesticated crops has followed a weedy species type
             | of domestication process--from wild to weed to crop and
             | then back to weed again.[1]
             | 
             | [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rye
             | 
             | [1]https://www.thoughtco.com/rye-the-domestication-
             | history-4092...
        
         | bergenty wrote:
         | I don't think there is anything a plant can realistically do to
         | adapt to a high enough wattage laser burning it away in the
         | seedling stage.
        
         | geraneum wrote:
         | It's natural selection and perhaps it's more likely that they
         | will go extinct in such a scenario.
        
         | cwkoss wrote:
         | There is a plant that mimics the shapes of other leaves - even
         | if the leaves are made out of plastic. Pretty fascinating, the
         | same photoreceptors suspected to enable this have been found in
         | other plants, but the others don't use it to engage in mimicry.
         | 
         | Weeds adapting to look like non-weeds is highly plausible, IMO.
         | 
         | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8903786/#:~:tex...
         | .
        
       | mfiguiere wrote:
       | Mindblowing that it geo-locates and stores the centimeter scale
       | position of the 4M plants of a farm!
        
       | hzhou321 wrote:
       | Nice! If the robots can sustain on solar energy, even better.
        
       | pxue wrote:
       | Just waiting for the day when the robot decides we are also a
       | weed.
        
       | sbf501 wrote:
       | I expected farm-pest-control robots to look more like the ones in
       | the film "Runaway" (1984) than a big laser turret you drag over a
       | field.
        
       | bamboozled wrote:
       | Weeds are the enemy /s
       | 
       | But really, the whole idea of having perfectly manicured fields
       | like that with no sign of any weeds around seems like the real
       | problem to me.
       | 
       | Zero biodiversity...we wonder where the insects are going ?
        
         | nemo wrote:
         | On the one hand, the reason for the decline of the various
         | milkweed butterflies appears largely to be a result of areas
         | that once supported some milkweed populations were hit with
         | glyphosate which killed the host plants off at a massive scale.
         | On the other hand this is already happening with chemicals
         | sprayed indiscriminately, this reduces the amount that's
         | sprayed, which could save farmers money, and this reduces
         | glyphosate runoff which is good. Still seems to have the down
         | side that if actually adopted would likely cause even more loss
         | since it could be used on crops where it's avoided now. And no
         | farmer is going to program it to skip milkweed or some other
         | important host plants, they hate milkweed.
        
         | abstractbill wrote:
         | As the video points out (toward the end), since these robots
         | recognize and work on each individual plant, they are much more
         | able to deal with more biodiversity than our current methods,
         | which can only scale for monocrops.
        
           | cwkoss wrote:
           | Would be super cool to have an autonomous robot that could
           | get a 'kill list' and destroy every invasive plant in an area
           | while leaving everything else unharmed.
           | 
           | Could be a fantastic diversity-enabling tool.
        
         | jollyllama wrote:
         | Careful usage of cover crops and planting companion plants
         | would be the opposite of that kind of approach. Companion
         | plants will to some degree prevent weeds, generally without
         | competing for the same nutrients as the crop. Usually they're
         | selected based on their ability to attract beneficial insects
         | as well, which function as a form of pest control. This is
         | really only viable at the scale of gardening, but when used
         | effectively, can produce much higher per-area yields.
        
         | Hermitian909 wrote:
         | Having worked a farm for a few summers, my understanding is
         | that we're dealing with the following set of tradeoffs.
         | 
         | 1. If you allow weeds, you'll need to till the soil to maintain
         | yields
         | 
         | 2. If you till the soil you erode it, damaging the the long
         | term health of your farm and water supplies.
         | 
         | 3. If you drop yields globally, people starve (and farmers go
         | out of business)
         | 
         | Since eroding the soil harms biodiversity in a different set of
         | ways, killing weeds seems like the least bad option. Ideally we
         | wouldn't require harsh chemicals to do that but no one has
         | quite figured it out.
        
         | justinator wrote:
         | Maybe it's monocrops that are problematic.
        
           | sidibe wrote:
           | I'm not saying either of you are wrong but the we'll be
           | needing the robots to do it other ways or 10x as many
           | farmers. It takes a ton of labor to deal with weeds and other
           | issues in a more sustainable way
        
             | bamboozled wrote:
             | So I understand this is not realistic currently; However
             | where I currently reside, basically everybody grows their
             | own food, and has plenty of time to be doing other things
             | in the meantime.
             | 
             | So while we all need robots, there are probably a hell of a
             | lot of people who would be able to produce even one crop a
             | year in their backyard, who don't bother.
        
             | jollyllama wrote:
             | We would probably all be much healthier if instead of
             | indirectly subsidizing make-work desk jobs, organic
             | vegetable gardening was subsidized instead.
        
             | tracker1 wrote:
             | No reason the robots won't reach "other ways" at a point
             | either. I think it will take a lot of combinations of
             | solutions over time.
             | 
             | I still think there should be a lot more rotation between
             | general crops, animal grazing and replenishment cycles.
             | "Live" soil is becoming a problem and we keep
             | extracting/killing it faster than it's getting replenished.
             | Not to mention all the pesticide issues.
        
         | zwieback wrote:
         | There's _" no sign of any weeds/zero biodiversity"_ and then
         | there's "target the weeds that would crowd out your crop",
         | which is definitely a problem in my raised beds.
        
         | blockwriter wrote:
         | I picked up grains from a farm in Dwight, Illinois that makes
         | very limited use of herbicides and pesticides (it seems like
         | oats are all but impossible to grow economically without some
         | use of a weed killing agent). The farmer made the transition
         | for his health and the health of his kids, because he was
         | intuiting that certain health problems were the result of
         | agricultural chemicals. I was struck, walking in their corn
         | field, by the abundance of insects and weeds, and the absence
         | of these quantities in standard ag corn fields struck me as
         | alarming.
        
       | abledon wrote:
       | I'd love to work in this industry as a developer... coming from
       | web/cloud what would the average interview be like? Is it more
       | leetcode style? or system design? I would only want intermediate
       | developer position at most for starters. What are some projects
       | that would make someone stand out for AgTech Robotics stuff?
        
         | zmix wrote:
         | > What are some projects that would make someone stand out for
         | AgTech Robotics stuff?
         | 
         | I guess, in addition to the typical engineering stuff (AI,
         | robotics, etc.) to work with these companies on startup-level,
         | a passion for agriculture, especially historical agriculture,
         | might be what could set you apart from competition.
        
       | modeless wrote:
       | Seems like it should hoe each weed instead of spraying it. I
       | guess that's a little harder to do. Maybe a lot harder.
       | 
       | Two other things I thought were interesting in the video. One,
       | the idea of mapping the whole field is pretty cool. There must be
       | useful things you could do with a millimeter-scale 3D map of an
       | entire field. Two, this is happening in California, just a few
       | hours' drive from Silicon Valley. I hope some of the engineers
       | laid off recently find work in ag tech, because there will be
       | huge opportunities coming with the rise of computer vision and
       | (hopefully soon) robotics.
        
         | illys wrote:
         | I saw on one of the illustrations that the spray is made of
         | acetic acid. Pretty natural product, aka vinegar at low
         | concentration.
         | 
         | Well targeted as they seem to do, I guess it is a good product
         | to preserve the soil and wanted plants with no harmful
         | residues.
        
           | modeless wrote:
           | That's cool, yeah, precise targeting should remove the need
           | for highly toxic herbicide.
        
         | ajpgrealish wrote:
         | Small Robot Company have a robot called Dick which uses "Non-
         | Chemical Weeding", i.e. they zap the weed to kill it, and it's
         | root. They use other small robots to do the mapping and
         | planting. I really like the idea of small, specialised robots
         | for different tasks.
         | 
         | https://www.smallrobotcompany.com/weed-killing
        
           | busyant wrote:
           | > I really like the idea of small, specialised robots for
           | different tasks
           | 
           | in my experience, this is the best approach. I worked at a
           | few biotechs that did a lot of lab automation.
           | 
           | the robots that could do everything were hardly ever used
           | because they did everything poorly and seemed to be
           | constantly in need of repair.
           | 
           | the robots that could do one simple job were always in use.
        
           | modeless wrote:
           | The text "to take place in early 2020" and "AVAILABLE 2021"
           | on that site, in November 2022, does not inspire confidence.
           | 
           | I guess in the near term dozens of specialized robots for
           | each task will be necessary, but the idea I like is teams of
           | general purpose robots using simple tools to perform almost
           | any task "manually". It's too early to implement that now,
           | but I think it will be feasible within my lifetime.
        
           | danielheath wrote:
           | Weed zapping is fascinating - but putting the kind of power
           | electronics required to deliver sufficient voltage in a
           | mobile robot is _terrifying_ from an OHSA perspective.
           | 
           | One group I'm familiar with are using 50kv (and "more than
           | enough" amps) for the purpose.
        
             | marcosdumay wrote:
             | If there is nobody around when it's powered on, I don't see
             | a problem.
             | 
             | If people have to stay around to care for it, then yes,
             | it's scary.
        
             | colechristensen wrote:
             | It's not really. Plenty of people have handheld tasers
             | powered by 9v batteries and plenty of farm equipment can
             | (and does) mangle people not being careful around very
             | dangerous machines.
             | 
             | This is just a misunderstanding of the risks involved in
             | various things.
        
               | modeless wrote:
               | Yeah there are tons of really dangerous things on farms,
               | like Paraquat, or power take-offs. Power doesn't have to
               | be electrical to kill you. Mechanical power will do the
               | job just fine.
        
       | Jolliness7501 wrote:
       | Chemicals? Do you mean dihydrogen monoxide? Horible stuff.
       | Increase your cancer risc like from 0% to a 100%.
        
       | a_t48 wrote:
       | I worked with the founders of this company, sharp guys. Glad to
       | see they are doing well.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | vavooom wrote:
       | Fascinating use of modern computer vision techniques equipped
       | with modern robotics. Challenge of course is scale and getting
       | farms to integrate such features into pre-existing processes over
       | time.
        
       | thesausageking wrote:
       | I'm fascinated by Freethink, the company that creates videos like
       | this for tech companies. Has anyone worked with this or similar
       | companies? How much does it cost and how was your experience?
       | 
       | https://www.freethink.com/about/for-brands
        
       | lchengify wrote:
       | There's another company called Carbon Robotics that uses lasers
       | instead of weedkiller.
       | 
       | The attachment they built needed a custom cooling rig to deal
       | with the dozens of lasers. Super interesting engineering going on
       | with agtech.
       | 
       | https://www.freethink.com/robots-ai/farming-robot
        
       | 8bitsrule wrote:
       | Freethink brings a high degree of polish to their videos. Great
       | for promotion. Not so sure about the 'think' part yet.
       | 
       | Another interesting Freethink video: "Generalist vs. specialist:
       | Which Is Better?". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER2R-F68L0c
        
       | ALittleLight wrote:
       | One thought I had while watching that the video didn't seem to
       | explore is that if you can precisely map the field and remember
       | every plant, and you have 4 million plants on your field, then it
       | seems like you could enable precise experiments. Need to find the
       | best mix for fertilizer or pesticides? Seems like you could do
       | very precise and large N experiments to nail down what is best
       | for your plants in your field and possibly eke out some
       | additional return by doing so.
        
       | popol12 wrote:
       | Glad to hear that humans will be able to continue ruining the
       | planet after the last bee dies
        
       | jws wrote:
       | Maybe a dispensing system which more selectively targets the
       | weeds should instead of using less killer, use a less effective
       | killer.
       | 
       | Instead of some clever bit of selective plant killing molecular
       | wizardry, just spray the weed with lye (NaOH). Dissolve the weed
       | and any overspray or residual will lightly raise the pH of the
       | soil. If you have alkaline soil problems, then maybe use
       | sulphuric acid instead.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-16 23:00 UTC)