[HN Gopher] CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-bala... ___________________________________________________________________ CPSC calls for full recall of all Onewheel self-balancing electric skateboards Author : alden5 Score : 128 points Date : 2022-11-16 20:41 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.cpsc.gov) (TXT) w3m dump (www.cpsc.gov) | thembones wrote: | Never been able to understand why these don't come by default on | the Onewheels: https://land-surf.com/products/new-fangs-gt-built- | tough-to-r... | | I put these on mine and love em. They work well and prevent | exactly what's being described. | birdman3131 wrote: | But then it would be a 5 wheel. | alden5 wrote: | I personally don't like fangs as when the bumper drags on the | ground during a nosedive it slows the board down quickly, when | I first nosedived at 3k miles the friction caused me to slow | down to about 5mph before I had to run it out, I was going | downhill and if I had fangs I would have continued | accelerating, eventually you need to bail and with fangs | wouldn't have been able to run it out. | acomjean wrote: | On the one hand people seem to get good enough on them to be able | to race down mountains. But they do seem somewhat dangerous when | in the mix with cars,bikes and pedestrians. There is I imagine a | learning curve. | | https://www.onewheelracing.com/ | | They're fairly uncommon here around Boston, and usually riders | are wearing motorcycle style helmets. I see a lot more electric | scooters zipping around (like the Bird and Lime ones, but | privately owned). The only device I've seen someone fall off of | was an electric skateboard (No particular reason (they were | coming to a stop at a light and fell foward.). | alden5 wrote: | onewheels suffer from a problem known as nosediving in which the | board shuts off when it can't supply enough power to support the | rider, as the board is self balancing this is a problem intrinsic | to the board's form factor. The board works in a similar fashion | to balancing something like an umbrella on your hand, as the | rider leans forward it creates an imbalance that requires the | board to accelerate in order to keep the rider upright. The only | possible safety feature to prevent nosedives is to inform the | rider that they're approaching the board's limits, this is done | with "pushback" where the board elevates the nose making the | rider uncomfortable, signaling that they should slow down. Newer | boards are more aggressive with pushback, it's definitely a | balancing act giving the user the most power from their board | while also preventing them from nosediving, future motion faced | significant backlash when their new flagship board implemented | extremely strong pushback at a speed lower than a prior | discontinued model | furyofantares wrote: | Mine just turns off even on flat ground when fully charged and | ejects me forward. Started happening after about a week of use, | just as I was getting comfortable, but it's just completely | unusable. Maybe I'm a bit too big, or riding a bit too far | forward or something, I don't know, but I feel a bit vindicated | now. | | What a waste of money, I'm glad I wasn't injured worse than | just some scrapes and bruises. | slt2021 wrote: | FutureMotion must equip all onewheels with safety wheels on | both sides. Also known as Fangs bumper wheels. This must come | standard from factory, just as safety belts come with car. | | physics is no excuse for lousy engineering from FutureMotion | and complete disregard of life threatening diving condition! | alana314 wrote: | Pushback on my XR is extremely subtle. The GTs have audio | pushback but it's quiet. The app on my phone and watch tell me | if I'm low on battery or have wheelslip, but I wish there was | just a simple pushback notification. It would be so easy. | drcode wrote: | As a onewheel owner, one feature I think needs to be eliminated | from the device are the "digital shaping modules" that allow | you to modify the behavior of the board via software. It should | has only one mode, which is "do everything possible to make | sure the user doesn't crash" | | I only had one fall on my onewheel with ~2 years of use, and | that was when I was testing one of the "smooth ride" software | modes and it therefore didn't move forward as quickly as I | usually expected (because it was emphasizing "smooth" over | "responsive") causing me to fall forward. There was absolutely | no good reason for that fall to happen, I think. | s17n wrote: | Pushback is extremely unintuitive, it should do pushforward | instead. | frankus wrote: | It also seems like they could do haptics, i.e. superimpose an | audio-frequency wave on the motor current. Similar to the | steering feedback you get with a lane departure warning | system. | | But then again it might be difficult/impossible to make it | distinguishable from e.g. rough pavement. | dghlsakjg wrote: | An 80db piezo buzzer is $.13 and can operate on logic | levels. | | No need to get fancy | closetohome wrote: | This could 100% be done in software -- it's already | adjusting the wheel speed a thousand times a second, it | would be trivial to add some haptic oscillation. | alana314 wrote: | Why? That would cause you to accelerate which would cause a | nosedive. | aksss wrote: | It has a pushforward mode - we just refer to it as | nosediving. It's very intuitive, and a great trainer. | Instills respect very quickly. | pram wrote: | It happens at low speeds too! I hit a pothole on my bike and | flew off the front and had a concussion/sternum fracture, and I | was going like >5mph. I couldn't believe it. It has made me | permanently scared of electric bikes. | | (yes I was wearing a helmet thankfully or I might actually be | dead) | bombcar wrote: | I've read somewhere that a majority of the "damage" from a | bike accident is actually the "head to concrete" fall | distance, and that speed often isn't a major factor. | partdavid wrote: | Why electric bikes specifically? | aksss wrote: | Good summary. I would just add that "can't supply enough power" | is a state the board can enter into either in lower battery | levels or (more often) when a rider has put their center of | mass too far forward, causing the board to work harder to stay | under them, while also moving at a higher rate of speed or | accelerating - the board can't give enough power to maintain | this. | | Pushback is to be respected, but the user can also ignore it | and carry on. It's literally the board telling you that you | need to get ready to run if you don't stop, but many will just | ignore and keep on keepin' on, often at speeds faster than they | are capable of running. | | Watch this in action here: | https://www.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/ywq655/the_scorpi... | | I've said before that Onewheels are the Lawn Darts of our | generation, we're lucky to enjoy them before the nannies start | taking our toys away. They are super fun though - so much fun. | [deleted] | js2 wrote: | When I was a teenager I rode my skateboard down a parking lot | ramp when I realized I was going way too fast, was about to | enter the street and the only way to bail was to jump off and | run. It looked about like that video. | | I didn't realize these one wheels have top speeds of 16-20 | mph. That's faster than most people can sprint. 16 mph is a | 3:45 mile. 20 is a 3:00 mile. | | > we're lucky to enjoy them before the nannies start taking | our toys away | | See also three wheelers: | | https://www.hotcars.com/this-is-why-the-3-wheeled-atv-was- | ba... | | But I dunno, where do you draw the line? As a 50 year-old who | makes a living typing I chose not to buy a table saw last | year because I decided it was inherently a riskier tool that | I ever wanted to use. I ended up with a track saw instead. I | think that was a good decision but not sure it's one I would | have been wise enough to make in my younger years. Now I'm | not advocating for banning table saws: my point is that | Onewheel can put every warning and disclaimer in the world on | their product and some people will still not appreciate the | risks involved. | | That said, 4 deaths over 2 years doesn't seem out of line | with other products in the same category. I wonder if | something else is going on to draw the CPSC's ire. | psychlops wrote: | If only the CPSC had tested skateboards for speed wobbles, | they would be banned. | Dylan16807 wrote: | > I didn't realize these one wheels have top speeds of | 16-20 mph. That's faster than most people can sprint. 16 | mph is a 3:45 mile. 20 is a 3:00 mile. | | Those numbers are somewhat relevant but shorter sprints are | about 50% faster than a mile pace. | js2 wrote: | 16 mph is also a 14 second 100-meter dash. You have to be | in decent shape to run that quickly and your legs already | have to be in motion. 20 mph is an 11 second 100-meter | dash. That's fast enough to win races against all but | trained athletes. | | FWIW, I'm a marathon runner with a 3:07 PR. I've done a | lot of speed work. I don't think I could run fast enough | to keep up falling off a board in motion at 16 mph. | sillysaurusx wrote: | Those comments are nuts. https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comme | nts/ywkg0y/the_scorpion_... | | They're mostly all like "Yeah OneWheels are cool but my buddy | leaned too far forward once and now his jaw's wired shut for | 6 weeks" https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/ywkg0y/the_s | corpion_... | | Or "I saw a guy almost die on one of these" https://www.reddi | t.com/r/funny/comments/ywkg0y/the_scorpion_... | | Or "Yeah a bunch of my friends have broken their bones at our | weekly OneWheel meetup, and OneWheels are universally | recognized as a wheeling death trap if you're not careful. | But it's totally worth it because, like, it's fun!" https://w | ww.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/ywkg0y/the_scorpion_... | | I think I'll stick to quadcopters... | somehnguy wrote: | I'm assuming you don't take part in the MultiGP drone | racing scene then. Onewheels and quads just seem to go | together - at any big race you'll see a bunch of them | wheeling around. | | Quads can be pretty dangerous too. One wrong switch flip | and you can look like you went through a deli slicer. Move | up to the bigger prop sizes and they can do more than that. | ksbrooksjr wrote: | Apparently some users have attached smaller wheels to the | front of the Onewheel that engage during a nosedive [1]. I | wonder how effective these are at preventing injury. | | [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/903wnj/diy_ant | ino... | robocat wrote: | There's a heap of videos showing serious crashes on youtube. | | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3ivCUxIvY is titled "OneWheel -- | The Deadliest EV" and it is was published two years ago. It shows | many short clips of some crashes in the first minute, however, | beware, it is very uncomfortable viewing if you empathise with | accident victims (I don't watch American pratfall TV programming | for the same reason). | | That video also talks about another design/usability flaw at 8 | minutes 30. | 1attice wrote: | With thunderstorms, you count seconds 'twixt bolt and boom. | | With the current golden age of electrified last-mile transport, | we're seeing the gap between innovation and regulation opening up | wide -- now several years. | | Real-world impact: I routinely get up to speeds on my e-bike that | are, quite simply, dangerous. It's not that I _never_ hit 25 | miles an hour on my old road bike, it 's that I spend so much | more time hanging out at ~25mph on my ebike that potholes have | gone from annoyance to mortal danger. | | The risk is somewhat mitigated by the enormous tires and superior | build quality on the braking system, but not entirely. I'm glad | to have taken a motorcycle license training course, and heartily | recommend that other early adopters think about voluntarily | seeking out additional training (and I imagine e-* specific | courses are available now, if not soon.) Not all good ideas come | with mandates :D | arglebargle123 wrote: | Another commenter posted about this in a separate top level | comment already but it's worth mentioning here as well since | you mention speed. The people who routinely hit 25+mph on a | regular road bike know how to handle one at those speeds, many | ebike riders simply don't have the handling skills or the | experience to ride safely (for themselves and others) at speed. | ars wrote: | I was using an e-bike on a road with some ripples (I guess they | messed up during paving). I was thrown off of the bike, and my | helmet prevented any serious injury. | | I wasn't even going very fast. | | The only solution to that (and the potholes) is larger wheels. | jeffbee wrote: | What about this experience is specific to electric bikes? | kube-system wrote: | Smaller tires and rotating assemblies with less mass are | more susceptible to uneven pavement. For example, a vehicle | like a motorcycle or even a motor scooter will be able to | handle imperfections on city streets more easily. | | If you got a bigger gyroscope under your butt, you're | harder to knock over. | recursive wrote: | Riding position and weighting distribution. | | If you're sitting straight up with 90% of your weight on the | saddle, this can happen easily. If your weight is evenly | split between saddle, pedal and bars, and your elbows are | bent, you can absorb some pretty rough roads. | outworlder wrote: | At least bicycles are stable. This onewheel thing cannot work | without a computer balancing it (+ the rider). If it fails the | rider falls on their face. It would be the equivalent of a bike | fork breaking. | [deleted] | FpUser wrote: | >"heartily recommend that other early adopters think about | voluntarily seeking out additional training" | | Alternatively one can stop being an idiot and ride at safe | speed. I bet that "additional training" would require at least | this kind of sanity | Dylan16807 wrote: | Are you saying that 25mph is inherently unsafe? What's the | safe speed then, for a normal dry day? | | Does this speed limit apply to motorcycles too? | vel0city wrote: | I ride motorcycles on highways going 80mph+. I rode an | engine conversion at 25mph and nope'd right out of doing | that again. | | The motorcycle's geometry is way different. It has a much | larger contact patch. It has much more powerful brakes. | zdragnar wrote: | Falling from a standing position can be dangerous. "Safe" | is a function of the environment you're in and device | you're riding- traction, obstacles, intersections, speed of | other traffic, visible distance (fog / clear sky / bend in | the road), wind, all sorts of things. | | Motorcycles have different tire sizes, masses and centers | of gravity. The speed they can "safely" travel will always | be different than a bicycle. | thomastjeffery wrote: | Safety is conditional to a lot more than speed. | bombcar wrote: | People assume a "bike" is safe, and a "motorbike" can be | dangerous, but there's no real difference between them. | | I've reached 35 MPH downhill under pedal power; if I had | wiped out I would have been in a world of hurt, or dead, | depending on how it had gone. | fragmede wrote: | Motorbikes can easily (<10 seconds?) reach 4x your 35 mph, | is probably why. That's why the full-face helmet and racing | leathers. The leathers aren't going to help you if you go | flying and hit something, which is why you should never | ride that aggressively on the street, but if you go sliding | for hundreds of feet, hopefully you only need a new suit | and not most of your skin. | | But you're right that even at 35 mph you'd be in a world of | hurt. Every time I see a bicyclist going aggressively | downhill in a bowl helmet and a barely-there lycra suit, I | cringe so hard. You know how they get rid of road rash? | They aggressively brush it out with what amounts to | sandpaper. | kube-system wrote: | Yet, the average motorcycle accident happens from speeds | less than 30mph. Those speeds are plenty enough to kill. | It all depends on what you hit and how. | mrchucklepants wrote: | I've hit 50 mph downhill on my bike just to say I'd done | it. I started thinking of all the ways it could end badly. | As soon as I hit 50, I was on the brakes. | Shared404 wrote: | I was almost killed by a downhill max speed bike crash when | I was ~12. | | Wearing a properly fitted helmet, I was knocked unconscious | and concussed quite badly by the hit to my head. | dredmorbius wrote: | One of my own more indelible memories is of sprinting down | a sizeable hill, out of the saddle and over the front | wheel, handily pulling away from my buddy whose bike | computer was reading 65 kph (40 mph), wearing shorts, | cleats, gloves, and a shit-eating grin. | | Two days later, tooling around on flat ground, my | handlebars came apart in my hands, thanks to hidden long- | developing stress fractures, a characteristic of aluminium | alloys. (There'd been numerous previous falls.) | | Speed is indeed fun. But its consequences can be extreme. | | (I've hit 80+ kph / 50+ mph on other rides.) | | Another factor is rider mass. An elite cyclist at 60--65 kg | (135--145 lb) can brake far more effectively than a past- | their-prime 115--135 kg (250--300 lb) rider, particularly, | again, on a grade. Brakes have only so much stopping power. | | E-bikes make higher-speeds for less-experienced and less- | skilled riders far more attainable. | | Typical recreational cyclists spend most of their time in | the 20--30 kph (12--18 mph) speed range. | FpUser wrote: | >"People assume a "bike" is safe" | | Bike is not safe. And it is not even about being hit by the | car. Cyclists often fall and often it results in broken | bones etc. | enneff wrote: | If you look at cities where bikes are well integrated | then they are way safer than cars. | neilv wrote: | The speeds of the motorized scooters/bikes/etc., and seeming | recklessness of their riders, has become a problem on the | sidewalks of college town Cambridge, Mass. | | For example, at least three times in the last week alone, I've | literally almost been run into by someone blasting out of, or | alongside, Harvard Yard on one motorized vehicle or another. | | Some of the bicyclists seem similarly reckless and self- | absorbed. A couple times in the last week I've almost been hit | on the sidewalk by a speeding bicyclist. | | Also, a few nights ago, I was almost struck in the head by | someone on a Blue Bikes rental bike, blowing through a | crosswalk that had a walk light, and after the cars had already | stopped for the red. (They were also speeding across the | ambulance entrance&exit for a hospital ED, so doubly reckless, | though convenient for me, had they cracked my head open.) | | Anecdotally, the bicyclist wtf rate seems much than it used to | be, and I wonder whether some of the motorized vehicles are | setting precedents for behavior. | | I intend to bring this up with the City, where I know they have | some people who care very much about bike etc. transportation. | I'm also mentally composing a concerned letter to the Harvard | administration, both about public safety, and about the image | of their students as reckless and self-absorbed. | roughly wrote: | I picked up an e-bike not too long ago and took a bit to decide | between class 2 and class 3 - I didn't have enough experience | with a bike and a speedometer to gauge whether the 20mph limit | on class 2 would be enough. Having ridden around for a while | now, yeah, absolutely agree - anything over ~15-20mph is above | my comfort zone for "able to adjust to sudden changes in the | environment." Folks who get the "class 4"s are baiting a date | with a reconstructive surgeon. | frankus wrote: | It's a bit of a balance. It's great to be able to keep up | with the 25 mph/40 kph traffic on city streets, but small | bumps in the pavement are rough and of course there's | quadratically more energy to manage in the event of a crash. | | I think we need to normalize the idea that riding a class 3 | bike requires using at a minimum a full-face helmet, | motorcycle gloves, and close-toed shoes. | | Personally I'll likely keep riding my bike in class 3 mode | since it results in zero speed penalty over driving in town | (and often is faster thanks to bike lanes that bring you to | the front of a line of cars stopped at a light, and can | typically be parked steps away from the door of where I'm | going). | 0_____0 wrote: | While quite reasonable, you'd be facing an uphill battle in | many places. | | In a lot of the United States, it's pretty common to see | someone riding a 160hp 4-cyl sportbike in a t-shirt and | flip-flops. Other riders call them 'squids.' EMTs call them | 'road crayons.' | roughly wrote: | Yeah, I'm lucky in that my city's done a fantastic job of | creating bicycle infrastructure - between dedicated trails, | clear bike lanes, and streets that have been designed & | designated for bikes, it's rare I have to interact with | fast-moving traffic (the rare times I do are just as | unpleasant as everywhere else, of course). | 0_____0 wrote: | A new e-bike rider who suddenly is capable of 20mph and has | no experience to the contrary might assume (wrongly) that | they can navigate safely at that speed. | | Cyclists who can maintain 20+ mph on flat ground (not at all | uncommon!) will have many more riding hours under their | belts, and the commensurate handling skills and instincts. | whimsicalism wrote: | This has definitely been my observation as well. E-bike | riders tend to be less experienced at a given speed then | cyclists. | | They also seem less likely to be comfortable riding on the | road (understandably) so illegally use sidewalks to a | greater degree. | roughly wrote: | I've certainly seen this with the rent-a-bikes - there | were rent-a-ebikes in my area for a while, and those | folks were frightening. | | Of course, we've still got the rental e-scooters, so our | supply of "people riding way faster than logic, wisdom, | their wheels, and the surroundings would suggest" is | still in adequate supplied. | whimsicalism wrote: | In SF, I actually notice this more with the non-rental | ones - the bikeshare e-bikes are pedal assist so a bit | different. | | I am hoping that as time goes on these newfound e-bike | owners will get more comfortable and will respect | traditional biking norms. | | Another phenomena I've noticed is a lot more kids with | e-bikes, oftentimes 3 kids to a single bike. | Glide wrote: | God... the most close calls I've seen have always been | with rental e-scooters. Both of them blew past a red | light, which btw, I was stopped at on my e-scooter. He | nearly got hit by a SUV if the driver didn't stop. | | I think there's some expectation for bikes to go with | traffic, rental scooter riders think they're some kind of | unicorn where right of way no longer applies. | | And I am assuming they are rental scooters because of the | styling and lack of helmet. | whimsicalism wrote: | I think generally the cultural expectation among bikers | is stop signs as yield and red lights as (at minimum) | stop signs. | gttalbot wrote: | Honestly if the CPSC existed when motorcycles were invented, they | might not exist. I gotta go with the Onewheel people on this one. | danboarder wrote: | I own and ride a Onewheel Pint (17mph max) and found it limiting, | so moved up to an EUC (electric unicycle) that goes 30mph. I | always wear a helmet and come from an extensive background riding | BMX on ramps and jumps, skateboarding, snowboarding, and mountain | biking. | | I agree with some other comments here that there is a learning | curve and these are relatively dangerous for new riders, just | like a skateboard is dangerous. But I do not think these are | inherently more dangerous than a normal skateboard or bike. It's | just that the self balancing and electronic assistance can give | an unearned sense of confidence where the rider is less cautious | than they should be. | izzydata wrote: | Do segways have a similar problem or is the vehicle large enough | that it can always counter balance your weight? | duskwuff wrote: | The Segway had a shorter platform, so the user wouldn't put it | as far out of balance under typical use, and it had handlebars | which allowed the user to pull it back if they started losing | their balance. It also had a lower top speed of 10 mph (12.5 on | later models); the Onewheel could run at 15-20+ mph. | | (I use the past tense because Segway production ended in 2020.) | ars wrote: | I think the pole in the center prevents your body from leaning | forward more than the Segway will tilt (i.e. it can just tilt | backwards, and push your body back where it belongs). | | With the Onewheel you can just lean forward as much as you | like, and the board is supposed to accelerate to bring your | center of balance back into the middle. | idatum wrote: | My inner twenty-something and my not-twenty-something body will | benefit from a report like this. I'm still reasonably athletic | and those things look dang _cool_ , but the pause a report like | this gives is healthy. | | I also agree with other comments related to motorized bicycles. I | wear motorcycle gear even when riding locally and under 40 mph. | Electric bikers can benefit from "gearing up". | jshzglr wrote: | Let's recall all cars. I hear people get injured in them as well. | kube-system wrote: | We do recall cars when design flaws endanger or kill users. | This happens literally hundreds of times per year in the US. | jgalentine007 wrote: | They made 3-wheelers illegal, Onewheels seem not much safer. | ok_dad wrote: | I never realized how fast 25mph was until I fell off my two | wheeled electric scooter going that speed and was slowed down by | a bus-head impact after I braked a bit. Luckily I was wearing a | helmet and long pants, but I still broke my back in several | places. A cop that saw me whiff it said I was probably only going | 10 by the time I hit the bus. | | I believe all of these electric whatever should be lawfully | mandated to go below at least 15mph if not lower. I don't believe | that people are able to grasp just how unsafe those speeds are. | themagician wrote: | I can not believe it took this long. | | After trying one for a bit I always wanted to get one, but never | felt fully safe riding it. I even asked them repeatedly if they | ever had a plan to introduce a board with some kind of additional | set of wheels or bearings on the ends to let you "roll out" in | the event of a power failure. The issues has always been that, in | the event of a loss of power for any reason, because you are | usually leaning forward, the board grinds to an almost immediate | stop and you just go flying. Happened to me once in the sand and | even that hurt. The board basically decelerates to zero | instantly. | | I thought long and hard about buying one and modifying the skid | plates with a row of large ball bearings or maybe even small | skateboard wheels. You just need something so that if the power | fails you at least can _attempt_ some kind of recovery. The way | it is now, if the power fails, you are simply getting launched. I | always wondered how they hadn 't been sued into oblivion, always | thinking to myself, "Someone must have died from this by now." I | guess at least four people have... but somehow they've been able | to produce and sell these for nearly a decade. | LeifCarrotson wrote: | Onewheel started with a 2014 Kickstarter with 400 units that | had 5 miles of range and a 13 mph top speed. The 2017 XR and | 2020 and later GT and Pint versions that can go 20+ miles at | 20+ miles per hour are incredibly new as far as transportation | tech goes. | | 2021, when the most recent death was reported, was literally | just last year. That's light speed for a bureacracy. | | Technology is far faster than regulation - this is true with | respect to Uber, Twitter, Onewheel, AirBNB, and a dozen other | new tech companies. | evan_ wrote: | you can get a kit to put little casters on ("fangs") but since | they lower the front end they can snag on stuff that wouldn't | be a problem otherwise | parkingrift wrote: | I don't know why the CPSC has singled out Onewheel. If they're | going to try and regulate this new class of mobility they need to | do better than phoning it in. This feels just as random and | absurd as the clampdowns on Juul. Don't buy Juul, but do feel | free to buy flavored nicotine from these thousands of other less | scrupulous vendors. | | There are absurdly under braked e-bikes with 30+ mph motors, | electric scooters with 40+ mph motors, "unicycles" with 40+ mph | motors, and even competing "onewheel" type products. Based on the | arguments provided in the linked article these are all worthy of | regulation. I disagree with the premise, but if they're going to | regulate one they should regulate all. | salad-fan wrote: | bilsbie wrote: | Seems uncalled for. | salad-fan wrote: | julienb_sea wrote: | This reminds me of the Juul ban, which flagrantly ignored the | trivial availability of competing vape products. | | Then again, the Onewheel system is rather unique. I would be | curious to see a safety comparison of Onewheel versus the much | more common self-balancing unicycles. | teekert wrote: | 4 deaths in all those years? Much safer than most forms of | transport then? Of course I didn't do the math but it seems like | very little, perhaps there also aren't that many out there? | [deleted] | kube-system wrote: | 4 deaths might be quite a lot for such a relatively low volume | product. | | By comparison, some car models have recently had their death | rates drop to zero after nobody died in them over similar | periods of time. And these figures are mostly user error. | Deaths due to product failures of automobiles are usually | pretty notable and are acted upon by regulators. | advisedwang wrote: | "four reported deaths between ... after the product failed to | balance the rider or suddenly stopped while in motion" | | These are deaths specifically from the scooter suddenly | stopping mid-ride and throwing the rider off. It's not | including deaths like getting hit by a car. This is the product | spontaniously killing people! | easygenes wrote: | Yes, but it is unclear that there was a product failure | involved in any of those cases. If the electronics failed | that's one thing. If the battery died because the user | ignored it repeatedly haptically nagging them that the | battery would die soon, that's another very different thing. | s17n wrote: | I'd be curious to know how many onewheels have been sold - my | guess is that 4 deaths represents a very high risk of death | relative to eg snowboarding, but without a denominator, there's | no way to know. | bombcar wrote: | https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/50-million-miles-on... | | and https://www.imarcgroup.com/one-wheel-electric-scooter- | market might be able to get a rough number. | taylorlapeyre wrote: | The physics of Onewheels are actually super interesting, and | Future Motion published an extremely well-made video recently | which explains the issue that the CPSC is referring to. It goes | into detail about why "nosedives" happen, and how to prevent | them. Really interesting stuff! | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn7iPN07XI | celestialcheese wrote: | Reading this warning, I don't understand why now? Is there a bug | with onewheels that are causing this injury/death? Or is it just | rider error doing a dangerous activity? | | Is the CPSC going to start warning against purchasing Rossignol | skis or Santa Cruz mountain bikes because their respective | activities are dangerous? | | Participation in action sports and high-speed transportation will | result in a higher expected mortality rate over the mean. I don't | know who in their right mind would think flying down a street at | >15mph on a single wheel would be _not_ incredibly dangerous. | | Let adults make stupid decisions - whether that's jumping off a | building with a parachute, riding a bike down a recklessly steep | hill or hurtling my body down Main St. on a sideways unicycle. | aksss wrote: | When the GT was released, there was a problem with "ghosting", | which meant the board would keep moving after the rider had | gotten off the board. This was traced to a faulty sensor in the | foot pad, for which Future Motion eventually did issue a recall | and will replace that gen foot pad at no add'l cost. | | It affected a minority of the boards, and the biggest concern | was the board crashing into a pedestrian's ankle or smashing | into traffic or parked cars. It was certainly a concern, but in | no way something that could reasonably be expected to cause | death or injury to the rider. | | That recall from FM of the footpad was done this summer. | | There is no open issue that I'm aware of with the board. | | Using them is inherently risky though, like downhill biking or | snowboarding. | ziziyO wrote: | Bug is a bit of a misnomer, it's a constraint by the laws of | physics due to the board having only a single wheel. If the | board is being pushed beyond operating capacity, there is no | graceful way to slow it down without the rider cooperating. If | the rider never cooperates and the motor overheats, that's when | you see a nosedive. | slt2021 wrote: | then FutureMotion must equip all onewheels with safety wheels | on both sides. Also called as Fangs bumper wheels. | | physics is no excuse for lousy engineering from FutureMotion | and complete disregard of life threatening diving condition! | MrStonedOne wrote: | Exuma wrote: | I can only imagine it's about the feature where it "warns" you | when you are leaning too far, which you can choose to ignore. | I'm assuming most injuries are from people pushing the angle | way too hard | apienx wrote: | "I don't understand why now?" | | Bureaucratic inefficiencies. | | "Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this | injury/death?" | | There was an issue that the community referred to as "ghosting" | whereby the board got a bit out of control. This was fixed with | a firmware update. The boards also nosedive when approaching | top speed. Some people consider that a bug, but it's just users | neglecting instructions and warnings. | latchkey wrote: | > Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this | injury/death? | | Yes. | | https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=onewheel+injuri... | | Edit: | | I should have explained this more. There are whole threads on | YT on how these things are super dangerous and causing a lot of | injuries. Especially with random lockups. | | There are videos about the poor construction, lockups, | dangerous to self repair, etc. | | I found them when I started to look into buying one of these | myself. | | Here is a reddit thread full of stories... | | https://www.reddit.com/r/onewheel/comments/robnkf/lets_talk_... | | Old, but Casey Neistat broke his collar bone... | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ay5M82IcUI | | Lawsuit over wrongful death: | | https://gearjunkie.com/news/onewheel-wrongful-death-lawsuit | | Nosedives: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24T4xrSf1Dg | | Electronic issues: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3ddOMvBws | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5b3fHL6ko0 | | Onewheel CEO SBF moment: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2PrcgfsX14 | shockeychap wrote: | This is not a link to a video describing a specific bug in | the product. It's just a link to a search of "onewheel | injuries" in YouTube, which presents a variety of videos | detailing all manner of injuries that come from operator | error and the inherent dangers of OneWheel operation. Try | searching for "mountain bike injuries" and see what you get. | | Is there anything else? (I'm sincerely interested. The CPSC | article clearly infers a situation in which it suddenly | stops. Is this confirmed?) | CharlesW wrote: | > _(I 'm sincerely interested. The CPSC article clearly | infers a situation in which it suddenly stops. Is this | confirmed?)_ | | The first few seconds of this 2-year-old video shows it | happening to Adam Savage: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3ivCUxIvY | | What I'm finding after some light digging is that this | "nosedive" problem has seemingly been injuring people for | years. There's apparently even a small ecosystem of add-on | products that purport to address it: | https://www.badgerwheel.com/shop-online/badgersense | Zak wrote: | These search results do not appear to describe a flaw in the | product. I watched a bit from one of the crash compilations | and would describe every crash I saw as rider error. Many of | them were attempting stunts, holding cameras while riding, or | both. | | It may be _easy_ to make such errors, but the same could be | said of a unicycle, skateboard, BMX bike, or any of many | other vehicles generally seen as safe enough for sale to the | public. | advisedwang wrote: | > Is there a bug with onewheels that are causing this | injury/death? Or is it just rider error doing a dangerous | activity? | | The article describes the scooter suddenly stopping operation | and throwing riders off. It's not just scooting being dangerous | generally, but a specific product flaw. | zamalek wrote: | I am absolutely no fan of Future Motion, and I ditched my | OneWheel in protest. This isn't entirely a product flaw and | comes down to physics: the board pushes you back (by lifting | the front) to indicate that you are exceeding it's capacity | to balance (all balancing products have a limit, with no | exceptions). It will also push back when the battery is low. | Either way, ignoring pushback is how people "suddenly have | the board stop." | | Major caveat though: nearly all reputable Electric Unicycles | (what I switched to) use a supercap for emergency power and | can pull you out of almost anything. FM is too | cheap/stubborn/unknown to do the same. | | Furthermore, EUCs generally have a speaker and can make | audible alerts when you approach the limit. OneWheel pushback | can sometimes be really ambiguous, and can be missed. EUC | apps also generally vibrate or something during these events. | The same can't be said for FM. | | The big issue recently has been the OneWheel GT, a.k.a. | Ground Torpedo. The foot sensor "ghosts" and causes the board | to miss disengagement from the rider. This results in the | board careening off (at 35mph) into whatever/whoever is in | front of it. The last I saw was one having made a good bend | in a wrought iron fence. FM has generally denied that it is a | widespread issue. I suspect it's the Ground Torpedo that has | cast so much attention towards FM. | | The last nail in the coffin (which has nothing to do with the | CPSC issue) is that FM are aggressively anti-right-to-repair. | The Ground Torpedo has volatile RAM in the Battery Management | System that bricks the device if it loses power (due to self | repair, or even complete discharge). The claim is that people | are installing inferior batteries, the irony is that it is FM | who install cheap crap. | | Don't buy a OneWheel. Fuck Future Motion. | nomel wrote: | I don't think this is what's happening, at all. Here's a deep | dive into what's actually happening, which is people ignoring | built in safety, overpowering the motors ability to keep them | upright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGn7iPN07XI | | The motor is at maximum power and speed when this happens. | ccakes wrote: | Admittedly a marketing video but still a pretty cool deep- | dive by the company - great watch! | mcrady wrote: | I had a onewheel that would occasionally just stop. The | first time I was going at 15 mph and fortunately came away | with only a few scrapes. | | I sent it in and they fixed it. This is their explanation | which I don't know that I fully believe: | | _Our engineers completed the repairs on your board! They | found that the power button had broken which led to damage | to the controller circuit board. Both have been replaced | under warranty for you. After your board passed our post-op | testings it was picked up by FedEx!_ | chabons wrote: | This video is directly produced by Onewheel's marketing | department. It does certainly highlight one way user error | can lead to injury on a Onewheel, but I don't think this is | a credible refutation of the idea that there may be a flaw | in the product. | drcode wrote: | There should be a place for adults to purchase equipment for | dangerous hobbies, as long as the risks aren't covered up. | unethical_ban wrote: | Agreed. If this is a problem inherent in the form factor, it | should be advertised as such and we continue on, like we do | with motorcycles, skateboards and so on. | closetohome wrote: | There are warnings on the box, in the manual, on a piece of | cardboard you have to remove to ride the board, and laser | marked on the board itself. | opwieurposiu wrote: | One issue with the skateboard style of e-wheel is that your feet | are perpendicular to the direction of motion. This means when the | wheel quits or you hit a big bump you will have to turn 90deg | before you can run. The unicycle style where your feet are | parallel to the direction of travel is much easier to "run-out" | if the motor quits. The unicycle style also allows a larger wheel | and larger batteries. | | I think reason the unicycle configuration is less popular is that | it does not look as cool as the skateboard style. My wife calls | mine the dorkmobile. | themagician wrote: | Skateboarders train themselves to run out in this situation | pretty much immediately. | | With OneWheel you never really "train" to fall, instead you try | to avoid it. So if you don't come from a skateboarding | background you have no muscle memory. | cwkoss wrote: | Skateboarders train themselves to run out early in their | practice, in front of the garage when they hit a pebble at | <5mph. And get frequent future practice. | | I imagine if your first skateboard fall was at 15+mph after a | month of complacency, skateboards would be attributed to a | whole lot more concussions. | thelopa wrote: | It's much easier to run after bailing from a skateboard than | to run after a nosedive. I've been casually longboarding for | ~12 years, and I rode an electric longboard for my commute | for ~3 years. Learning to run out after bailing (or at least | slow yourself down for a few steps before you lose your | footing) is an essential skill, and you learn to do it | automatically. Having the right stance helps a lot to ensure | that when the board stops you can handle it. Realizing you | need to hop off is a luxury you don't always get. | | When my OneWheel nosedived, I was completely thrown for a | loop. It stops abruptly (more so than a skateboard usually | will), your stance is heavily restricted (due to the balance | requirement), and the board messes with your trajectory and | balance as it tips. It kind of throws you toward the pavement | while a skateboard just throws you forwards. | | I love it, but it is definitely a vehicle you need to be | careful with. | rainsurf wrote: | I strongly disagree with this recall. | | I own a Onewheel (XR) and have ridden nearly ~1,000 miles on it | in a variety of conditions. | | I've only had one incident and it was entirely my fault (riding | at night without proper lights and hit a pothole). | | The Onewheel definitely has a learning curve. Like most things in | life if you are patient in learning it and respect the limits it | is entirely safe. | | I think the safeguards Onewheel has implemented are completely | adequate (primarily pushback). | | I think the big problem is people not wearing safety gear and/or | maxing out the board (speed specifically) too early. | themagician wrote: | Have you ever had the power fail? | rainsurf wrote: | I assume you mean the board fully power off while riding? | | If yes, then no. | | It is possible to overload the motor by going over the | maximum speed or going uphill by at too high of a speed but | in that case the board will not actually power off. | | The only way the board may turn off is if is fully charged | and you immediately ride it downhill (regenerative breaking). | To protect the battery from overcharging the board it will | turn off in that case but the app will warn you before that | happens and for newer boards they have implemented the | ability to charge to less than 100% if that is how you start | your route. | themagician wrote: | It's possible that the board just fails for any number of | reasons. | | I had a Boosted Board fail on me once. No idea why. It just | powered off randomly while I was riding. Wasn't going | downhill, wasn't full battery, wasn't a depleted battery. | It was a bit scary to suddenly feel the power go out, but I | was able to safely come to a stop. I was probably going | about 15 MPH. I never figured out what happened. It turned | right back on. This was the first time the board gave me | pause. I kept riding for a few months until I did actually | get hurt--100% on my own stupidity. I tried to go over some | train tracks while leaning too much on the front trucks and | was going fast, but not quite fast enough to cruise over | them, and the wheels properly got stuck in the tracks, so I | got to experience the fun of flying. Fortunately I was not | critical injured, just extreme bruising. Helmet 100% saved | my life though. | | This is the same kind of thing that can happen with a | OneWheel--only no user error is needed for it to happen, | merely a power failure. OneWheel either needs an integrated | solution that allows you to roll out in the event of a | power failure, or some kind of redundancy to ensure the | probability of a power failure is effectively zero. | Anything less leads to (preventable) death. | rainsurf wrote: | Sure, anything can fail. | | For these kind of "catastrophic failures" I think the | important thing is the probability of the event. | | I am not aware of evidence showing a Onewheel can fail at | an unacceptable rate. | themagician wrote: | The difference is that when most things fail (something | that _will_ happen), they do not result in instant | deceleration. When your iPhone experiences a power | failure it usually just doesn 't turn back on. If a car | experiences a power failure the brakes still work. Even | if the brakes DO fail, you can still at least _try_ to | come to a safe stop--and it 's possible you can. | | When the power fails on a OneWheel there is almost no | possibility of a safe stop. You are getting launched. | chabons wrote: | I think the severity of the event is also important. A | Onewheel requires power for stability (it's an inverse | pendulum), and as a result does not fail-safe. An | occasional motor failure on an e-bike would be a non- | event, as it fails to a safe state. An occasional brake | failure would be significant. | slt2021 wrote: | pushback is not adequate safeguard. Evidence is people's deaths | and trauma. | | FutureMotion must equip all onewheels with safety wheels on | both sides. Also known as Fangs bumper wheels. | | physics is no excuse for lousy engineering from FutureMotion | and complete disregard of life threatening diving condition! | unwind wrote: | _Like most things in life if you are patient in learning it and | respect the limits it is entirely safe._ | | Hey, just like C programming! :) | | On a slightly more serious note, the point seems to be that | people are not, and that can get them killed which is bad. If | the thing is that the pushback notification is too easy to | ignore/fail to notice, then that sounds fixable. | scottcodie wrote: | I have a Onewheel and I was ejected after it suddenly died even | though the battery reported a half charge. The accident was not | my fault and I was injured from it. I don't believe the product | is as safe as you imply. | mcrady wrote: | It's great that your single unit hasn't failed but that's not | much evidence against a recall. | | My onewheel at some point started to fail occasionally. The | first time I was going at ~15 mph and fortunately I came away | with only a few scrapes. After that, I reproduced at slower | speeds and was able to not fall when it failed. | | I sent it in and they fixed it. This is their explanation which | I don't know that I fully believe: | | _Our engineers completed the repairs on your board! They found | that the power button had broken which led to damage to the | controller circuit board. Both have been replaced under | warranty for you. After your board passed our post-op testings | it was picked up by FedEx!_ | dghlsakjg wrote: | I love riding my onehwheel, but it is incredibly, stupidly, | dangerous and the company DOES NOT CARE. | | Out of the box, mine was prone to runaway/ghosting where it would | continue riding even if no one is on it. Kind of dangerous for a | 25 pound device to go careening into the world. | | I have also had the nosedive thing happen. Yes, it happens when | you are exceeding the power output of the board. No, it is not | clear when it will happen, for me anyway. There is the pushback | 'feature' where the front of the board is supposed to elevate, | but as a 200 lb guy, it is pretty easy to miss. I suspect that | smaller people might get a stronger feeling from it. | | In reality, the board should, at minimum, have an audible warning | that you are nearing the power limit before sudden failute. | latchkey wrote: | Oh good. I live near the beach where a lot of people ride and | I've seen a few people take nose dives on them when they suddenly | stop for no reason. | easygenes wrote: | It seems lax of CPSC to issue such a damning statement without an | accompanying comparative analysis to other board or motor sports. | What's the injury rate vs other similar sports and how much of | that is to blame from undereducated or reckless riders? Also, | what's the rationale for the recall if the issue is people | ignoring the obvious warnings the thing is giving that the | battery is about to die? This doesn't seem to be a matter of | system failures or inherent design flaws. | | Paramotoring is risky, but no one is chasing all paramotor | manufacturers to recall their products. Similar for dirt bikes. | It seems somehow these are getting singled out due to their | uniqueness and being a product from a single company, not because | there's a flaw in the design that makes them inordinately risky. | mikestew wrote: | The device tips its nose forward and dumps its rider on their | head. There is no need to compare to anything if a device has | this behavior. If the battery runs out, I expect the device to | come to a stop, not throw me on my ass. I'm pretty sure even a | paramotoring rig that runs out of fuel isn't going to | immediately hurt me, and those things _fly_. | aksss wrote: | It does come to a stop. You get thrown on your ass because of | the laws of motion. | | Your last statement - are you talking about using a fan with | a parasail, which is a stable glider without power? If you | want to use that analogy, this is more akin to taking too | sharp a turn in a parasail, where the sail can't sustain and | collapses in, causing you to fall like a rock because of the | law of gravity. | | In a nosedive on a Onewheel, it also happens when the rider | is asking too much, goes outside the performance envelope, | and reaches a failure point. After the rider has been warned | by the board that it's approaching that edge, physically and | audibly. | easygenes wrote: | Ever tried to brake too hard on a motorcycle? You can get | them to slip out in all sorts of bad ways or just plain flip | pretty easily without finesse and skill. | | Certain sports just come with more risks. In some cases | they're niche enough with the right communities that they | self police or fly under the radar and escape regulation. | Others wind up with restrictions and licensing requirements. | | In one wheel's case it's a very fast thing which requires an | impeccable sense of balance and intense respect for it being | something that can only keep you moving if it has power. | Fangs (little wheels on the board edges) are an option for | people that want more flexibility with it bottoming out, but | they also lower your clearance so it's a trade off and you're | still best off never letting the battery die. | sometimeshuman wrote: | It's the single point of failure with no preventative | maintenance plan that makes it more dangerous. When the power | suddenly cut-out on my "one wheel" (it was a different brand) I | was instantly airborne. | | I can inspect my skateboard periodically to ensure the wheels | don't fall off. If my dirtbike engine suddenly cut-out I still | have momentum and brakes. But with a onewheel the wheel slips | behind you and you are smashing the pavement when the | electronics fail. For the record, I love my onewheel and | installed _fangs_ in case the power cuts out unexpectedly. | [deleted] | 0_____0 wrote: | One issue I've noticed with these new forms of electric wheeled | transport (longboard, transverse and longitudinal one-wheelers) | is that the people riding them often don't come from a sports | background. They aren't "safe" devices exactly - it takes skill | to pilot them, and when things inevitably go awry, it takes good | reflexes to avoid damage. | | Novices to action sports often throw their arms out to catch | themselves when they bail instead of rolling through the fall. | They also don't know how to navigate obstacles via strategic | weighting and unweighting of their implement. | | The energies involved are also substantial -- to put it bluntly, | some of these things fuckin' rip, which is super fun, but also | makes safety gear a good idea. You can take a lot of trauma and | abrasion bailing at 25mph+, potentially life-changing or fatal in | the worst cases. There's a reason why downhill longboarders and | an increasing number of electric wheel riders wear a fullface and | leathers. | closetohome wrote: | This is absolutely the case. When Onewheels were new they were | mostly ridden by people who came from other boardsports. They | knew the danger and treated them with the proper respect, | including taking the time to learn how to properly operate | them. | | In the last couple of years they've been wholesale adopted by | techies who treat them like toys. The consequences are | inevitable. | fpgaminer wrote: | I'm not sure this logic applies to the OneWheel. They aren't | self balancing like a SegWay where the average person can get | on and be fine zooming around within a couple minutes. The | OneWheel only does about half the balancing work, you have to | do the rest, and learning to ride one can take days or longer. | During that time you'll fall many, many times. It also doesn't | take much to eat shit on it even as a skilled rider (1). You'd | have to be a complete moron not to anticipate it throwing you | at any moment. | | Also the OneWheel, at least the Pint, can only go up to 15mph, | and only on perfect conditions on the most aggressive settings. | | (1) I had several weeks under my belt before my last incident | and still ate asphalt because the cutout in the sidewalk I was | going down as a little steeper than I had thought. The board | was angled down just a smidge too far because of this, caught a | lip where the asphalt met the sidewalk, and "physics took | control". | girvo wrote: | The amount of people I see on e-scooters with absolutely horrid | body positioning, unaware they can use their body weight to | stop much quicker scares me. | | That and the lack of helmets. | | I ride mine as safely as I can, and have 5000 kilometres done | so far. I've had to drop the scooter and bail a couple of | times, but mine maxes at out at 25km/h for good reason. Faster | than that on tiny wheels is a horrible idea. | deeblering4 wrote: | Very true. If you've never been able to cruise on a skateboard, | you might not realize how much damage an unexpected pebble or | sidewalk crack will do. | | Riding is a constant balance of scanning the pavement for | inconsistencies and making corrections to mitigate them. I | don't know if that's even possible at 20+ mph. | 0_____0 wrote: | Your latter point is why I'm not really sold on electric | longboards. Your control authority on a longboard is pretty | low, and you need a lot of control authority to react to | surprise obstacles/maintain stability after encountering one. | Sure, DH longboarders exceed 25mph regularly, but they ride | in semi-controlled environments (scout the descent for gravel | etc before hitting it) and are exceptionally skilled. | | Putting random noobs on electric longboards is a recipe for | road rash and broken bones. A few years ago, three people in | my office got Boosted boards, and I believe we saw two | instances of pretty bad road rash and a broken bone among | them. | butterguns wrote: | I rode a Boosted Board for the best part of 1 year on the | streets of Brooklyn. I ended up selling it; although I | absolutely loved the experience, I knew one day I would rip | my face off if I encountered even a small pothole. | Cerium wrote: | The danger is in the perception. It took me about 10 hours | of dedicated practice (over a few weeks) before I felt | comfortable using a longboard as a transportation device | off of public roads - eg: on a closed campus. When I have | seen people pickup an electric longboard they feel safe in | a half hour, but obviously don't have any reflexes to back | that up. | thot_experiment wrote: | Practically speaking yes, but this isn't an unsolvable | problem. I ride Originals spring trucks, which use a cam | and a spring instead of the urethane bushing in most skate | trucks. It takes effort to keep them steady at speed for | sure, but paired with soft wheels they feel like pure | telepathy in terms of control authority. | eagleinparadise wrote: | My partner was hospitalized for nearly a week and had to have | facial reconstructive surgery and nearly lost all her teeth | after she got hit by someone on a scooter going 25mph while we | were walking | | Be careful out there if you combine speed + unprotected mode of | transportation | 0_____0 wrote: | I'm so sorry to hear that. I wish her well in her recovery. | ramesh31 wrote: | Knowing how to fall is such an incredibly important life skill, | it's baffling to watch people who never learned it. | | As a ski instructor, you could instantly tell from their first | fall the kids who would get it and stick with it from the ones | who would be sitting in the lodge pouting after an hour. | perihelions wrote: | - _" you could instantly tell from their first fall"_ | | Mind elaborating what it is you see? | comrh wrote: | A good video that helped me fall better on skis after I | broke my wrist (by falling incorrectly): | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS0HCRMbRRA | moooo99 wrote: | This is ignored so often, it is scary. I have been longboarding | pretty frequently and extensively up until 2 years ago. I've | had my fair share of crashes and plenty of scars to serve as a | reminder, but generally I always was a pretty safe and | relatively skilled rider. But I also had multiple fun but | stupidly risky experiences on my longboard, but no experiences | comes close to the fear I felt when joining my friend on an | electric longboard riding through fairly dense urban traffic. | | Having that experience, I don't understand how people seriously | treat longboards (or similar modes that heavily depend on the | riders ability to balance well) as a serious option in traffic. | Bikes? Yes. E-Scooters? Probably yes. Longboards or Onewheels? | Hell no. | kube-system wrote: | I broke a bone literally the very first time I tried one of | these. It was a painful lesson. | conductr wrote: | I bailed at 8mph on an electric longboard and broke my elbow, | severely sprained my shoulder and wrist. I even lost some | rotation and dexterity in my hand. It's one of those _my arm is | never going to be the same_ type injuries. I was 40 but skated | and bmxed into my mid-20s and still felt pretty comfortable | with my abilities on the ground (gave up on ramps long ago). I | knew this was a risk given the speeds and even got an "off | road" model (bigger wheels) to help make pebbles and such a | non-issue. Even still, concrete is not flat, you'll eventually | come across a missing cobblestone, etc. IMO it's a matter of | when not if you'll take a spill. | | That said, I think the electric unicycles are much more | dangerous. But at least they make it clear that it's not a toy. | I passed on the Onewheel because of the random ejection | complains I've seen online (which is likely fueling this | regulation as it's been known for several years now). While | wrecking was not fun, at least I did it to myself. I'd be | really upset if I felt like the board did it to me. | colechristensen wrote: | Title does not match link. Nowhere does it say a recall was | ordered, it does say the manufacturer is refusing to comply with | what I assume is a suggestion for a voluntary recall. Does the | CPSC have the authority to order unilateral recalls? | | I'm honestly considering buying one while I still can, they seem | like fun and I'm just fine with the risks as long as there isn't | some hidden failure or manufacturing defect. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-11-16 23:00 UTC)