[HN Gopher] An undersea art gallery that ensnares illegal trawlers
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       An undersea art gallery that ensnares illegal trawlers
        
       Author : unripe_syntax
       Score  : 179 points
       Date   : 2022-11-16 08:37 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wired.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wired.co.uk)
        
       | dementis wrote:
       | This reminded me of a burial trend I heard about in Florida to
       | help build artificial reefs. Burial at sea is legal in the
       | US(with restrictions) but the Mediterranean has a ton of
       | ecological restrictions and a quick google search doesn't reveal
       | if burial at sea is legal within those protected waters.
       | 
       | https://www.cremation.com/cremation-memorialization/eternal-...
        
       | troymc wrote:
       | Here's the website of _La Casa dei Pesci_ :
       | https://www.casadeipesci.it/
        
         | elnatro wrote:
         | The fish house in English.
        
       | ambicapter wrote:
       | This seems like a genius idea that I want to get involved in. Are
       | there any projects like this in the northeastern US?
        
         | shagie wrote:
         | I am not aware of any... though I _do_ know that some of the
         | largest marble quarries in the world are in New England.
         | 
         | http://www.vermontquarries.com/danby-quarry
         | 
         | And then there's also large granite quarries... like the Rock
         | of Ages.
         | 
         | https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/rock-of-ages-granite-qua...
        
       | olivermarks wrote:
       | It's a cute arty way to draw attention to a huge problem, but lax
       | legislation and penalties are the real culprit here. Net
       | inspection and huge fines would make industrial scale strip mine
       | fishing economically very risky. Again, the issue is that no one
       | can police the offshore globalists who hide behind a veneer of
       | philanthropy, woke virtue signaling and greenwashing.
        
         | ajmurmann wrote:
         | Why are you blaming globalism for this? I'd argue that a lack
         | of globalism is at fault here. Fishing in international waters
         | is a problem that can only be solved by the global community.
         | The problem here is that corporations and monetary interests
         | act globally and always will while governments aren't.
        
         | rthomas6 wrote:
         | No, this is incorrect. They already do regulate it. It is
         | already illegal. The problem is the regulations and penalties
         | are pretty hard to enforce when any ship in the world can go
         | anywhere else. Italy can pass all the regulations it likes, and
         | a Chinese ship full of somewhat desperate people can illegally
         | fish there anyway with whatever equipment they brought with
         | them, until the ship gets individually caught. And please note:
         | Italy's coastline is ... Big. Really big.
        
       | tmnvix wrote:
       | For anyone interested in seeing a short documentary about this,
       | DW covered it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-SPiCVTKiY
        
       | wffurr wrote:
       | What's the impact on climate change of just enforcing the laws
       | already on the books against bottom trawling and such?
        
         | jstanley wrote:
         | Are you suggesting that instead of coming up with ways to catch
         | criminals, we should just catch criminals?
        
       | a_shovel wrote:
       | If the goal was solely to ensnare trawler nets, then it could
       | probably be done a lot more efficiently by just sinking some
       | concrete blocks. But by putting _sculptures_ down there instead,
       | it gets media attention and public interest as well, which leads
       | to funding to continue the project.
        
         | kawsper wrote:
         | That's what Greenpeace is doing in the UK:
         | https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/live-greenpeace-boulders-...
        
           | overlordalex wrote:
           | Huh, seemed pretty effective at first glance. It also lead me
           | down a wiki rabbit hole from the dogger bank to similar
           | nearby features, which came full circle with the Cleaver Bank
           | where Greenpeace also sunk some boulders. Except apparently
           | they were removed by the fishers...                   The
           | Cleaver bank is in 2015 considered for protection as a Marine
           | protected area. The Greenpeace organisation considered the
           | actions of the Dutch government in this direction too slow
           | and sunk some large boulders on the seabed in May 2015 to
           | increase the nature value.[7] Dutch fishers lifted the
           | boulders on 16 June 2015, because they were afraid the
           | boulders would damage their fishing gear.[8]
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaver_Bank
        
             | theptip wrote:
             | Maybe that's a benefit of something like artwork - removing
             | it would presumably be a crime?
        
               | a_shovel wrote:
               | If not a crime, at least it would look way worse in the
               | press than removing some featurless concrete blocks.
        
             | arcticfox wrote:
             | This seems like an asymmetric win for Greenpeace. It has to
             | be like 10x easier to chuck boulders around than find and
             | retrieve them.
        
         | ambicapter wrote:
         | > If the goal was solely to ensnare trawler nets
         | 
         | It's not. The sculptures also serve as a base for the plant
         | life.
        
           | jrwoodruff wrote:
           | And probably as an attraction for divers and others in the
           | area.
        
         | chrisweekly wrote:
         | It started w concrete blocks -- but it proved too difficult to
         | fund them in sufficient supply to be effective. Sculptures OTOH
         | were a stroke of genius, flipping the script so they actually
         | generate revenue and a virtuous cycle of attention and more
         | installments.
        
           | ISL wrote:
           | Artists are also likely to be real interested in the
           | opportunity to have free marble in large formats on which to
           | work.
           | 
           | Furthermore, if the sculpture works out well, you can get a
           | bunch of press. If it doesn't, you get to sink it in the
           | ocean forever.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Great project. But it makes me think that just dumping some tank
       | traps down there (Three steel bars welded normal to each other)
       | would work well to snag and tear nets and, if they don't
       | encounter a net, support some sea life.
        
         | ragingroosevelt wrote:
         | Where's the news-worthy-ness in that, though? I get the sense
         | that a large point of this isn't functional but rather to cause
         | people to talk and think about it.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | Oh, I think the art makes it a great project (I should have
           | been less pithy and more fulsome in my praise in the first
           | sentence) for the vert reason you give.
           | 
           | I just meant it inspires me to think of a cheap and easy way
           | to go "monkey wrench gang" in other places. In fact
           | governments could even do this in places where they are
           | trying to restore fisheries.
        
       | christkv wrote:
       | The illegal trawling on the African coast by Chinese trawlers are
       | destroying the livelihood in many African countries. I wish the
       | EU would work with those nations affected to intercept and arrest
       | those boats.
        
         | dementis wrote:
         | This is from 2021 but it does show how heavily China has
         | invested into Africa to support their Naval and Maritime
         | shipping.
         | 
         | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9554253/How-China-b...
         | 
         | There has been some speculation that China is effectively
         | trying to take control over Africa and has been rather
         | successful at doing so on some fronts.
         | 
         | https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/18417/china-taking-over-a...
        
         | krisoft wrote:
         | So Chinese ships are doing something at the coast of African
         | countries and somehow you want the EU to do something about
         | that?
         | 
         | How does that compute?
        
           | ornornor wrote:
           | And that's why it's called tragedy of the commons.
        
             | stuaxo wrote:
             | An article on the original "tragedy of the commons"
             | 
             | http://links.org.au/debunking-tragedy-commons
        
               | ornornor wrote:
               | This argues that the only alternative is privatization.
               | 
               | I don't think that's true.
               | 
               | The issue here is that land that no one has authority
               | over means that there is also no enforcement and that
               | it's a race to the bottom as to who will manage to
               | exploit it to the point where it is destroyed and useless
               | to anyone anymore. And why wouldn't you, morals aside?
               | It's basically free resources for the exploiter with
               | externalities shared by everyone. It doesn't mean the
               | solution is private ownership. Look at national parks,
               | they're publicly owned but they're not a no man's land so
               | a government has authority to enforce conservation rules
               | there and punish those who pollute/damage the park.
               | 
               | That's what parent comment was perfectly illustrating:
               | "not EU waters, not EU trawlers, why even lift a finger
               | if Africa is too corrupt or financially unable to protect
               | these ecosystems and the Chinese too cynical to refrain
               | themselves?"
        
               | foobarian wrote:
               | The semantics of those words are not quite right. Yes a
               | national park may sound like a "public" good. But it is
               | privatized in the sense that there is an owner who looks
               | after it. If international waters had an owner as
               | diligent as the National Park Service things would be a
               | lot different.
        
               | pstuart wrote:
               | Perhaps it's time for International Parks.
        
               | brianmurphy wrote:
               | The same question remains. Enforced by whom?
               | 
               | It seems solvable with a consensus of the stakeholders.
        
               | ornornor wrote:
               | Well I reckon government (or a government-like entity)
               | owned is as close as you'll get to have laws enforced
               | while not being privately owned (as in by an individual
               | or a corporation).
        
               | dementis wrote:
               | "Generally, a state's exclusive economic zone is an area
               | beyond and adjacent to the territorial sea, extending
               | seaward to a distance of no more than 200 nmi (370 km)
               | out from its coastal baseline."
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone
               | 
               | "China has by far the largest distant water fleet in the
               | world with at least 3,000 vessels, some of which have
               | been spotted off the coasts of Africa and as far as
               | Ecuador. This has raised concerns of overfishing at a
               | time when global fish stocks are plummeting. "It's their
               | strategy of establishing themselves as a big fishing
               | power," said Matti Kohonen, executive director of the
               | FTC. "Then they end up breaking a lot of fishing laws by
               | doing that."
               | 
               | https://english.alarabiya.net/features/2022/10/26/Chinese
               | -fi...
               | 
               | The issue with a lot of places globally that Chinese
               | owned fishing fleets(of highly questionable legal status)
               | go is that they will decimate the area like a plague of
               | locus and then just like locus they will move on once
               | there is no longer any viable marine wildlife to catch(or
               | even kelp / sea grass to collect). And the local
               | governments either don't have the resources required to
               | patrol their coastal exclusive economic zone or they
               | intentionally don't want to antagonize China by stopping
               | their illegal fishing fleets either because of political
               | corruption or due to other more serious reasons.
               | 
               | Technically the International Criminal Police
               | Organization (INTERPOL) can enforce Maritime law but I am
               | not aware of them doing anything about illegal fishing
               | fleets.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | To be fair the EU can barely prevent this shit in European
         | waters.
        
       | Nursie wrote:
       | This sounds like a great project.
       | 
       | It has been a consistent disappointment to me over the years that
       | the EU failed to act to restrict these practices effectively.
       | It's always the poor, poor fishermen who need their livelihoods
       | protecting, never mind that their livelihoods are under threat
       | from their own actions.
        
       | chrisweekly wrote:
       | I saw this on Patagonia's youtube channel... what a great idea.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-17 23:00 UTC)