[HN Gopher] Betting on things that never change (2017)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Betting on things that never change (2017)
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 271 points
       Date   : 2022-11-21 14:14 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (collabfund.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (collabfund.com)
        
       | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
       | There is something of a campaign going on now and it is not
       | 'cool' to compliment some billionaires. Apart from this, there
       | are valid real reasons to dislike to former Amazon's CEO.
       | 
       | That said, reading his early interviews it hard not be impressed
       | by the foresight and insight. I personally do think he got some
       | things wrong ("if you can't measure it, you can't manage it"
       | mantra being one of them ) or at least got others to
       | misunderstand it, but it is hard to deny the results he helped
       | manifest.
       | 
       | It is the same impression I have of Thiel.
        
         | cercatrova wrote:
         | > _There is something of a campaign going on now and it is not
         | 'cool' to compliment some billionaires._
         | 
         | I've seen this when HN shifted from YC applicants, ie startup
         | founders, to tech workers in general. There is quite a paucity
         | of startup news that's not necessarily related to the wider
         | tech ecosystem.
        
         | nordsieck wrote:
         | > I personally do think he got some things wrong ("if you can't
         | measure it, you can't manage it" mantra being one of them )
         | 
         | Could you explain this point more. I'm genuinely curious.
        
           | triceratops wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
        
           | extragood wrote:
           | From my perspective: there are some things you fundamentally
           | can't measure.
           | 
           | One of the teams I manage is technical support (B2B SaaS).
           | Support's core functionality in an organization is to prevent
           | churn. If a customer reaches out to support, they have some
           | issue that is blocking them from using your product
           | effectively. If you are unable to unblock them, then you risk
           | them switching to a competitor. The problem is that not
           | _every_ support ticket /interaction will result in churn so
           | we can't really directly measure how effective we are at our
           | core function. So instead we measure the number of tickets
           | raised, customer satisfaction, adherence to SLAs, etc, which
           | is as good of an approximation as we can get with the
           | resources we have available to us.
           | 
           | In my case, those numbers all look reasonably good, so I'm
           | treated as an effective manager, even though we don't (and
           | maybe can't) really know how much churn we've prevented. I
           | wish we could though - it would make my arguments to
           | executives on behalf of the support team that much easier to
           | say, hey we retained $XXXXXX in revenue over this period.
        
           | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
           | Sure. Some context may be needed. I suppose my views are
           | formed in this way partially, because I became an MBA after
           | having soul crushing jobs, which does tend to change your
           | perspective a little bit ( and give you an insight into what
           | is going on in a head of the front line drone that is forced
           | to implement orders the best way he/she can ).
           | 
           | << "if you can't measure it, you can't manage it"
           | 
           | 1. It is wrong in a literal sense. You obviously can. Maybe
           | you should not ( which is a valid question to ask ), but you
           | absolutely can manage things and not measure everything.
           | 
           | 2. It is wrong when taken metaphorically to a logical
           | conclusion. The mantra seems to encourage ( and did encourage
           | based on some of the things managers tried to measure --
           | lines of code come to mind ) measuring everything. In
           | accounting, there is a concept similar law's 'de minimis' ( I
           | kinda don't want to use that name, because I worry people
           | wills start questioning that from tax perspective, which is
           | its own animal I don't want to touch, but in practical terms,
           | the name matches the concept exactly - basically 'too small
           | to matter'), where accounting for some items in some
           | processes is borderline pointless ( say a screw ). Every so
           | often, people in accounting classes go 'but what if', 'but we
           | can track it'. And the answer is invariably: 'You can, but is
           | it worth it?'
           | 
           | Naturally, you could counter it with: 'Well, you don't know
           | if you don't measure it.', but there has to be a point at
           | which the tracking of atoms get too crazy.
           | 
           | So that is my basic thought on the matter. I can expand a
           | little more, but I think that covers it. Note, I am not
           | saying it is not worth it to measure stuff. I am saying it is
           | important to be discriminating over what you pick to measure,
           | because, people being people, will optimize for it.
        
         | startupsfail wrote:
         | If you purchase a toy at Amazon and it is contaminated with
         | lead or cadmium paint, you would not notice. And even if you
         | would, there is no one legally responsible. That outfit in
         | China that sold it doesn't care. And Amazon is just a
         | marketplace and is not responsible.
         | 
         | Toy stores (Toys"R"Us) used to be a thing. They were legally on
         | the hook, if they'd sell contaminated toys. Now no one is. And
         | unfiltered toys from China are shipped directly.
        
           | hippich wrote:
           | Recently I relisted a simple 3d printed attachment for Nerf
           | gun on Amazon. It got assigned to toys category. Listing
           | never went live because they wanted all kinds of
           | documentation about kids safety. Obviously it was not worth
           | it for me and I dropped the idea.
           | 
           | I did sell it in the past without all these issues. So things
           | do change in terms of safety, and likely because there is at
           | least some liability on Amazon
        
       | mnsc wrote:
       | I'm not an Amazon customer so it doesn't apply to me, but I
       | hate/don't use Amazon because it's too cheap and deliver too
       | fast.
        
         | sedeki wrote:
         | Do you live by this motto more generally? I'd love to have you
         | as a customer.
        
           | mnsc wrote:
           | I also hate a lot of companies that are too expensive, trying
           | to sell you status but not backing it up with quality. So I
           | would love it if you could sell me high quality products that
           | are repairable and doesn't unnecessarily tax neither our
           | planet nor the humans involved in creating them. What are you
           | selling?
        
       | sacrosanct wrote:
       | Amazon blends both worlds together. Invention coupled with
       | stagnant business models which have worked for millennia.
        
       | CrypticShift wrote:
       | > You can make big, long-term bets on these things, because
       | there's no chance people will stop caring about them in the
       | future.
       | 
       | I wish more VCs thought about investing in our sustainable future
       | on earth, the way Morgan Housel thinks about investing in
       | sustainable companies.
       | 
       | The only assumption that keeps us from that step is that all
       | people care about is their short-term rational self-interest.
       | 
       |  _of course, they do! what else would they care about? How can
       | you even imagine a Market without that assumption?_
       | 
       | Yeah... let's just continue to bet. I personally bet there are
       | some "timeless" things that will definitely change soon.
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | It's amazing how well it reads for something that really seems
       | like just common sense.
        
         | Swizec wrote:
         | The best insights feel like obvious common sense _after_ you
         | read them. But you didn't know it, or know how to verbalize it,
         | beforehand.
        
       | locallost wrote:
       | > customers want low prices, and I know that's going to be true
       | 10 years from now. They want fast delivery; they want vast
       | selection. It's impossible to imagine a future 10 years from now
       | where a customer comes up and says, "Jeff I love Amazon, I just
       | wish the prices were a little higher."
       | 
       | Actually there is one thing people are starting to desire -- less
       | choice. I think some kind of curated content for anything has a
       | lot of potential because mostly I do not care if I get the 100%
       | perfect thing, I care about it being 80% right and not a
       | headache. The time investment is not really worth the trouble to
       | find the perfect thing.
        
         | awillen wrote:
         | I think that's true for fungible goods - it's a pain when you
         | search for something generic like dish soap on Amazon and get
         | 10000 kinds - but not for non-fungible goods. When it comes to
         | books, I want Amazon to have as wide a selection as possible.
        
           | locallost wrote:
           | True, maybe that's the context of the original quote. I don't
           | think about Amazon anymore as a book store so my mind went
           | somewhere else.
        
         | strix_varius wrote:
         | I think this maps to some of the alternate "bets" at the bottom
         | of the post:
         | 
         | - Faster solutions to problems ("buy the best widget for me"
         | button > two hours of amazon + google + reddit research)
         | 
         | - Increased confidence/trust (trusting that "buy the best
         | widget for me" really _is_ the best widget for me, not the one
         | with the highest affiliate-link returns)
        
         | Nemi wrote:
         | Exactly why Costco is more and more popular. They essentially
         | do curation of goods available on the market and they sell them
         | at a good price. When I go to Costco I know I might not get the
         | best item on the market, but I know I will get a decent product
         | that fits my needs at a decent price. It is all about saving
         | mental energy for other things.
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | Well said. I just ordered a 4k monitor for my home office
           | from Costco - it was basically the only model they sell. My
           | normal mode of operation is to spend hours trying to research
           | the specs that matter, find a good price, etc. Instead, I
           | assumed I was getting something reasonable and bought it
           | without any research.
           | 
           | Given that today's sellers make it nearly impossible for a
           | consumer to compare items (store exclusive SKUs, component
           | swaps in same SKUs, astroturfed reviews, and even inventory
           | co-mingling), a curated marketplace is worth so much.
        
         | themitigating wrote:
         | That might be for you. I actually prefer options and
         | customization and if it's taken away I'm more annoyed than if I
         | never had it.
        
           | pfdietz wrote:
           | I prefer having the choices I want not being submerged in an
           | ocean of crap.
        
           | locallost wrote:
           | People are definitely different and that people want choice
           | has definitely been correct for a long time. But I'm noticing
           | it not only in me, but with people around me -- they're just
           | tired from dealing with choosing from 100 different things
           | when they only need 3. Especially because most of them are
           | the same. The internet has made this worse than ever.
           | Companies like Apple have shown this is possible - they
           | basically tell the user "this is what you need" and people
           | accept it and it's worked.
        
         | jahewson wrote:
         | I don't think you mean 80% right. You mean 100% right on the
         | things you care about. If I need a widget that fits some size,
         | is child-safe, doesn't quickly break and costs less than $300 I
         | can't accept 80% right. Sure I don't care about the color or
         | brand but they weren't criteria of mine to begin with.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | JauntyHatAngle wrote:
         | There are already things that solve choice, e.g. brands and
         | reviews.
         | 
         | Perhaps I'd understand what you meant with an example? What
         | products are you finding is too varied?
        
           | larrik wrote:
           | Do those solve it? I don't really trust either. When
           | everything is made in China anyway, sometimes those garbage-
           | looking Chinese brands are just as good as or better than the
           | name brand stuff, and sometimes they aren't.
           | 
           | Some brands build a lot of reputation on quality, and then
           | cash it in for higher profits by suddenly switching to low
           | quality (American appliance brands were notorious for this,
           | with a sort of round robin selection on which brand had
           | actual quality behind it for any given year).
        
           | mbesto wrote:
           | > There are already things that solve choice, e.g. brands and
           | reviews.
           | 
           | Agreed with this, which is essentially why Amazon's
           | e-commerce is probably doomed. Reviews have become unreliable
           | and brands lack consistency on their site (is it fake? is
           | this an officially branded product? who is actually selling
           | me this?)
           | 
           | This is why I've got my bet on Shopify.
           | 
           | > What products are you finding is too varied?
           | 
           | I would argue virtually every category suffers from too much
           | choice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice
        
             | loudmax wrote:
             | "Doomed" seems a strong take, but I totally agree that
             | Amazon is leaving e-commerce ripe for disruption if they
             | don't address the trustworthiness of their reviews.
             | 
             | The paradox of choice would be mitigated by better trust,
             | and better user interface. These aren't necessarily easy
             | problems to solve, but Amazon should have the resources to
             | solve them, if it only had the will.
        
           | andyjohnson0 wrote:
           | I'm not the person that you replied to, but have you tried
           | searching for e.g. usb memory sticks on Amazon?
        
             | locallost wrote:
             | Exactly this.
        
         | diffxx wrote:
         | > Or, "I love Amazon, I just wish you'd deliver a little
         | slower." Impossible.
         | 
         | Given the externalities involved in Amazon style delivery, I
         | personally wish they would optimize more for throughput than
         | latency.
        
         | adamsmith143 wrote:
         | >Actually there is one thing people are starting to desire --
         | less choice.
         | 
         | Maybe not less but easier choices. It's hard to tell which
         | frying pan is the best when there's 100 nearly identical
         | listings all with 5000+ 5 star ratings which may or may not
         | have been gamed. There's not a great way to tell the objective
         | quality of a product before you buy it.
        
           | llbeansandrice wrote:
           | This is why I've begun prioritizing returns and exchanges and
           | good customer service. Even with a high-quality product it's
           | possible to get a lemon. Doesn't matter if I can just return
           | or exchange within a reasonable time-frame.
        
         | fataliss wrote:
         | I think it's partially true and I definitely fall under the
         | category that hates to sink hours into searching for the best
         | YYY where YYY is a random $30 item. But I don't necessarily
         | want less choice, I just want something/someone I can trust. If
         | I could just believe that the "amazon choice" was actually
         | tested thoroughly and matched a quality standard I can get
         | behind, then I'd happily get the "amazon choice" of most
         | things.
        
       | barbazoo wrote:
       | > It's impossible to imagine a future 10 years from now where a
       | customer comes up and says, "Jeff I love Amazon, I just wish the
       | prices were a little higher."
       | 
       | Except that many consumers these days do look for business that
       | are more socially responsible and pay their fair share
       | downstream.
       | 
       | Personally I _am_ seeking out business that pay good wages and
       | are responsible to the environment. Obviously that 'll lead to
       | higher prices so in some way I am wishing for higher prices.
        
       | tabtab wrote:
       | This reminds me of Oracle Forms: It was by today's standards
       | simple, cheap (overall), facilitated compact code that mirrored
       | close to biz logic, and easy to deploy. It used a kind of "GUI
       | browser" so you didn't have to install executables to use and
       | update apps, just one "browser". But Oracle rewrote the client
       | into Java, and Java's deployment flaws dogged it, so co's had to
       | gradually abandon it. They should have kept it in C. (The
       | developer's side stayed mostly the same, it was deployment's side
       | that got the headaches.)
       | 
       | It wasn't esthetic, but got most CRUD jobs done quick and simple.
       | I've never coded in it myself for production, but observed
       | amazing productivity at multiple orgs. There's something magic
       | about it.
       | 
       | Oracle originally had to cater to many OS's, so were parsimonious
       | with GUI features. Thus, it has just enough to do typical CRUD
       | jobs but not enough to distract, confuse, and over-complicate the
       | tool. They didn't get feature-happy over time. Once you learned
       | how to milk existing features, you realized you really didn't
       | need boatloads of pluggins.
       | 
       | Current web stacks are bloated nightmares and business money
       | sinks in comparison. I'm not saying bring back Oracle Forms as-
       | is, but at least borrow its best lessons. We'd have more
       | practical GUI web standards by now. (Most CRUD productivity don't
       | need mobile UI's. Also, it may not do well for big "enterprise"
       | apps, but for small and niche it groves.)
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | Like a stopped clock?
       | 
       | I'd grant that Amazon has a large selection and that's an
       | advantage over competitors.
       | 
       | As for pricing, I wouldn't say Amazon is expensive but it is not
       | consistently low cost and it is not unusual to see something on
       | the shelves at Target for $50 that is selling for $70 on AMZN. I
       | think after all these years, and particularly with Prime, AMZN
       | has gotten people in the habit of looking to AMZN first and you'd
       | expect them to cash in on it.
       | 
       | The better selection than other retailers is a durable advantage.
       | I'd call out Best Buy for having a poor selection in comparison,
       | particularly being overly wide (they sell washing machines,
       | grilles, and mirrorless cameras and parts to build PCs) but not
       | sufficiently deep (no selection of lenses for those cameras, no
       | quality tripods, a very limited supply of PC parts.) It begs the
       | question of "Why am I going to drive to Best Buy where they might
       | have some of the things I need when I can order them all online
       | from Amazon or a specialist retailer?"
       | 
       | The flip side is that the marketplace puts a lot of junk products
       | in the AMZN catalog. I'd never buy anything that is likely to be
       | counterfeit on AMZN (Nike only from the Nike store) and I learned
       | the hard way not to buy a thermal printer that is marketed with a
       | size in mm instead of inches.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | iamwpj wrote:
       | Amazon has never paid dividends to investors. Its only value is
       | to invest against interest rates or inflation. In fact, if
       | investors wanted dividends it might upset the ability of Amazon
       | to provide its objective. It's stable, but only philosophical.
       | This isn't a land investment or something. It's an extension of a
       | long term trend of consumerism.
        
         | ChadNauseam wrote:
         | Amazon did a $10B buyback in march
        
       | quickthrower2 wrote:
       | A good article but feels more table stakes than secret sauce
       | stuff. The advise crosses to non startups too. It is a why you
       | have a bunch of different X targeting market segments for all X.
       | For example Pizza, flights, cars.
        
       | a_c wrote:
       | I thought the article is about change is the only constant yada
       | yada hence we should embrace change. How wrong was I.
       | 
       | > which is that an insurance company selling directly would have
       | a cost and convenience advantage over those paying brokers.
       | 
       | Put it into software, to me it is about eliminating
       | abstraction/boundary/communication. Frontend and backend is an
       | invented boundary. Product and Dev is an invented boundary,
       | CS/QA/Documentation and dev is also an invented boundary. Whoever
       | break the most of the imaginary boundaries is going to make
       | software building so much faster
        
       | findalex wrote:
       | - Everyone wants affordable housing (lets find ways to bet on it)
       | 
       | - NINJA loans, swaps, CDOs, etc.
       | 
       | - housing markets collapses
        
       | yellow_lead wrote:
       | (2017)
        
       | hallqv wrote:
       | Basically what YC has been touting for years, focus on problems
       | not solutions.
        
       | itissid wrote:
       | Ad infinitum: Fire, or equivalently burning something, is an
       | unchanging idea which is the only way humans have and used over
       | and over to get where we are.
        
       | ttul wrote:
       | What rings true for me in this article is the notion that, as a
       | founder, it's better to pick a problem space than it is to pick a
       | solution. Amazon chose to live in the problem space of how to
       | bring consumers more products, more conveniently, at a lower
       | price. Geico chose a similar goal but in insurance.
       | 
       | Technical founders often focus on a particular cool way of
       | solving a problem and burn lots of capital building that thing.
       | Sometimes the thing is the right thing and everyone makes money.
       | But sometimes it's not. Yet if you stick with the same problem
       | space for long enough, and aren't too connected to your
       | particular solution, I think you have a greater chance of
       | succeeding.
       | 
       | Okay, go ahead and poke at my pontifications now. I'm ready.
        
         | nathias wrote:
         | this is a great strategy if you already have near infinite
         | resources
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cpeterso wrote:
         | Sometimes quoted as "Fall in love with a problem, not a
         | solution."
        
         | lazide wrote:
         | Well, except what you're describing fundamentally leaves the
         | hardest problem unsolved.
         | 
         | Where to start (concretely) and what _you're actually going to
         | do_ , and _if it will work for customers in a way they will pay
         | you more for it than it costs to do_.
         | 
         | Discovering that, and if it is going to work, is what a startup
         | does.
         | 
         | You can't do it without deciding on something concrete
         | eventually to deliver, and pursuing it with enough vigor to get
         | a workable product in someone's hands.
         | 
         | Tech startups that build an entire product without
         | understanding the space are leaning too heavily in one
         | direction.
         | 
         | Sales led startups that get a customer base and start
         | collecting money without a concrete product plan are leaning
         | too hard in the other (and even more, add big red flags for
         | scams and fraud).
         | 
         | Doing all the things and integrating it into a workable
         | collection of customer needs they'll pay to solve, along with
         | an actual solution that works to solve it, while not going
         | bankrupt in the process _is why startups are hard_.
         | 
         | Not being a scammer or committing fraud in the process? Harder
         | still!
         | 
         | It's the unknown unknowns and navigating all the bullshit on
         | the way that also make the risk very high. Fundamentally, it's
         | impossible to know everything until you've already done it, and
         | by then, it's already changed under you.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | barumrho wrote:
         | I generally agree with your statement, but it depends on what
         | your goal is. Ultimately, do you want to build a successful
         | business or bring a (specific) new technology into the world? I
         | suspect the former is true more often and it can lead to
         | innovations along the way, but there is nothing wrong with the
         | latter.
        
         | jbaczuk wrote:
         | Great observations!
        
         | aquafox wrote:
         | > Technical founders often focus on a particular cool way of
         | solving a problem and burn lots of capital building that thing.
         | 
         | This nicely summarizes the current hype in Bitcoin or deep
         | learning.
        
         | noobker wrote:
         | I was once at a talk with several medical technology founders.
         | One of them namechecked specific legislation that enabled their
         | solution to come to market. And so I asked, "How do you survive
         | if only 1 law is prying open the opportunity for your
         | business?"
         | 
         | They replied that their business exists to solve a need -- a
         | need that exists regardless of the specific regulations. Should
         | the regulations shift, a company motivated beyond a specific
         | solution will adapt to keep meeting its customers' needs.
        
         | Moodles wrote:
         | Totally agree. For a negative example see all the companies
         | desperately trying to find sone problem for blockchain to
         | solve.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | yobbo wrote:
         | Depends on perspective. What is _one thing_ and what is a
         | _problem space_.
         | 
         | Is a microprocessor or a mobile phone one thing in many
         | different problem spaces?
        
           | TuringTest wrote:
           | Businesses are not built on things they sell, they are built
           | on the customer problems they help solve.
           | 
           | If you build microprocessors, you better understand how your
           | clients are using them to create electronic devices, and
           | provide all the services and documentation they may need. A
           | less potent microprocessor paired with a website that
           | perfectly explains how to use it and what use cases it
           | supports will win any day over a more powerful chip that no
           | one understands.
        
             | yobbo wrote:
             | Yes, but the investment in things can be so great that it
             | becomes impossible to change according to customer
             | preferences. The business then has to find new problem
             | spaces for their things.
        
         | kmonsen wrote:
         | Isn't Amazon's cash cow AWS which is not in that problem space?
        
           | SatvikBeri wrote:
           | AWS is Amazon's _most_ successful business, but they were
           | wildly successful even without it. AWS only launched in 2006,
           | 12 years into the company.
           | 
           | Today, most estimates I could find put AWS at 25%-50% of
           | Amazon's worth.
        
         | choxi wrote:
         | I think maybe the fundamental hard thing about startups is that
         | you can't ignore the problem space or the solution space. It's
         | not like Bezos was passionate about selling cheap books for
         | years before Amazon, he saw that this new Internet thing was
         | going mainstream and building on top of this new tech was the
         | premise of the business more than selling books cheaply and
         | quickly was.
         | 
         | Most of the startup opportunities in the last couple decades
         | were built off the back of several deeper tech breakthroughs
         | like mass mobile phone adoption and virtualization. I think
         | more founders have been successful just riding these tech waves
         | than sticking to a problem space. Brian Chesky didn't work in
         | hotel management and Travis Kalanack didn't work in
         | transportation. They were just familiar with cutting edge
         | consumer tech and applied it to problems they had no familiar
         | with before they started.
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | I think this also points out the timing aspect. The big
           | "breakthrough" companies (breakthrough in terms of
           | capitalistic successes) happened since people were in the
           | proverbial right place and time with the right idea.
        
           | pyinstallwoes wrote:
           | Bezos built Amazon to solve the traveling salesman problem.
        
             | doitLP wrote:
             | But that spawned the traveling delivery truck problem.
        
               | xcambar wrote:
               | Then to be shadowed by the traveling delivery drone
               | problem.
        
           | pjdesno wrote:
           | Note that choice of starter product is important. Amazon
           | started with books - you know exactly what you're getting,
           | they always fit, they're hard to damage, they have pretty
           | high markups and low shipping costs. People were willing to
           | risk buying books online, back when online e-commerce
           | basically consisted of the USENET misc.forsale groups.
           | 
           | Tesla and many other EV companies started with low-volume
           | expensive sports cars, with high margins so they could be
           | basically hand-crafted. (Tesla actually bought the
           | chassis/body/interior from Lotus) If they had started with
           | the Model 3, they'd have gone bankrupt long before they sold
           | any.
        
             | koonsolo wrote:
             | I think Bezos also mentioned that he started with books
             | because no single physical shop could have all the books,
             | but Amazon could. It is a product with so many variations
             | that Amazon had a clear competitive advantage.
        
               | bsder wrote:
               | Amazon's competitive advantage was _not paying any tax_.
               | Amazon 's selection in technical books was quite poor for
               | quite a while.
               | 
               | However, the tax discount drove _ALL_ the small, local
               | technical booksellers out of business. It might have
               | happened anyway since local sellers had to pay retail
               | rent and so Amazon had a structural advantage. However,
               | Amazon also gained a straight 8% advantage for not having
               | to pay tax.
        
             | galdosdi wrote:
             | Another now-classic example of solving this chicken and egg
             | problem, I think: Facebook starting with just Harvard, then
             | ivy league colleges, then colleges, then colleges and high
             | schools, and only finally the general public. At each stage
             | the arena was small enough it was realistic to take the
             | whole segment over, and then that became the seed for the
             | next phase.
        
             | SatvikBeri wrote:
             | And their second product was CDs/DVDs, which have a lot of
             | the same properties. Then they opened Amazon Marketplace,
             | allowing other stores to sell through their site, and used
             | the data of what was popular there to expand into other
             | products - they were consistently very deliberate about
             | what to sell next.
        
       | m0llusk wrote:
       | Amazon is mostly driven by AWS which is a very new paradigm for
       | building business services. Insurance has been revolutionized by
       | new methods for collecting and analyzing data in order to
       | estimate risk. Monsanto's latest growth play is farmland and crop
       | insurance. The examples used in this piece appear to demonstrate
       | the opposite of what was intended.
        
       | melenaboija wrote:
       | Yup, that is similar to what my grandma used to say and that will
       | always work: "buy cheap and try to sell as expensive as you can"
       | and sometimes adding "it does not matter if clients need it as
       | long as you can convince them they do".
       | 
       | She was an entrepreneur of 1950's that started a small retail
       | business.
        
       | ismail wrote:
       | I like to think about it this way.
       | 
       | The "what" is often timeless and stays the same.
       | 
       | The "how" the what is achieved changes.
       | 
       | I need to get from point a to point b (the what)
       | 
       | V1: walk/run/horse
       | 
       | V2: carriage
       | 
       | V3: train
       | 
       | V4: cars
       | 
       | Etc etc
       | 
       | There is another dimension to this as well.
       | 
       | Sometimes the what has to completely be re-architected since
       | society has fundamentally changed.
       | 
       | As an example:
       | 
       | Consider education (what) this will always be required in
       | society.
       | 
       | A naive version of innovation in this space would be to keep
       | things the same and just change the delivery mechanism (online)
       | 
       | A better innovation would be to re-imagine what it means to be
       | educated/schooled.
       | 
       | The best place to start is identifying the assumptions inherent
       | in the current system. , and asking are they still relevant?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | As usual, I find myself nodding in agreement whenever I read
       | anything written by Morgan Housel on this blog. It is evident he
       | has thought deeply about the topic of each post, and wants to
       | share his hard-earned insights with the rest of the world.
       | 
       | Long-term compounding of wealth indeed comes from betting on
       | things that won't change over the course of a lifetime.
        
       | hardware2win wrote:
       | So seems like I should invest in semiconductors
        
       | CPLX wrote:
       | The irony of comparing Andreeson and Buffet and claiming they
       | have completely opposing investment theses is pretty hilarious.
       | 
       | They both have the exact same approach, which is to seek
       | companies that have or will create monopoly effects in their
       | markets, using dominance of a market segment to raise prices and
       | extract rents.
       | 
       | Same investment strategy that's made basically every vast fortune
       | since we invented the cotton gin.
        
         | TimPC wrote:
         | So they have the same strategy in the sense that absolutely
         | everyone who ever made money had one strategy and they have a
         | different strategy in a way that is useful and informative? I'd
         | label that different rather than same.
        
           | CPLX wrote:
           | Most people have a different strategy, which involves
           | producing a product or service of value.
           | 
           | Megalomaniacal monopolists such as these two seek to extract
           | monopoly rents by cornering markets.
           | 
           | Their differences with each other are trivial, and the
           | contrast between them and nearly everyone else in the normal
           | business world is stark.
           | 
           | They are robber barons, it's not some new and exciting story,
           | it's a tiny class of humans, there's only a few dozen at any
           | given time.
           | 
           | > the term was typically applied to businessmen who
           | purportedly used exploitative practices to amass their
           | wealth.[2] These practices included exerting control over
           | natural resources, influencing high levels of government,
           | paying subsistence wages, squashing competition by acquiring
           | their competitors to create monopolies and raise prices, and
           | schemes to sell stock at inflated prices to unsuspecting
           | investors.
           | 
           | Sound familiar?
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron_(industrialist)
        
       | elefantastisch wrote:
       | This article seems like a good reminder to know what your
       | fundamentals are and to be deliberate about picking them.
       | 
       | But I'm not convinced that this advice can be used to _pick_ your
       | fundamentals, your core business model.
       | 
       | Amazon opted for more choices and lower prices.
       | 
       | Barnes & Noble stuck with faster solutions to problems (get your
       | book today not after a week of shipping as was common when Amazon
       | started), deeper human interactions (you can go into the store
       | and ask someone for recommendations, meet authors, etc.), and
       | increased confidence/trust (you know what you're getting because
       | you can hold it in your hand and read it before you buy it).
       | 
       | Low-cost carriers have moved in on traditional airlines because
       | while it's true that people will never stop caring about added
       | comfort, it turns out they care about lower prices much more.
       | 
       | But Apple built a staggering market cap relying on the assumption
       | that while people care about lower price, they care about great
       | control of your time (just works) and higher social status more.
       | 
       | So it seems like this article provides a good framework for
       | thinking about your business, but doesn't give any answers as to
       | the actual strategy you should use.
       | 
       | Or am I missing something?
        
         | unity1001 wrote:
         | Common theme seems to be making things easier and cheaper.
        
         | eric-hu wrote:
         | Pretty solid point.
         | 
         | I read TFA's take on fundamentals as neutral on the examples
         | given. There was mention that Amazon survived where Beenz did
         | not because they picked the right mix of changing and
         | unchanging. On the other hand, the juxtaposition of Andreeson
         | and Buffett says that you can find business success with
         | seemingly opposite fundamentals.
        
         | bippingchip wrote:
         | For me this is a good example of the old adage that you should
         | not confuse vision with strategy.
         | 
         | The vision is you realize the universal truth (in Amazon's case
         | people want things cheap and fast).
         | 
         | The strategy is how you deliver on making that visions reality.
         | This is what you call (rightly so) your core business model.
         | 
         | Only experience people tend to get all caught up in the big
         | ideas of the vision (especially middle managers) but spend far
         | to little time on making the hard choices that come with
         | deciding in strategy: it's as much, if not more, about deciding
         | what _not_ to do as it is commitment to what you will do to
         | realize your vision.
        
       | bovermyer wrote:
       | Something that we often forget is this:
       | 
       | Do boring things well.
       | 
       | It's easy to chase the newest technology, the newest features,
       | the newest markets. But unless you pay attention to the boring
       | things too, you've set your feet on sand instead of stone.
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | Reminds me of: https://boringtechnology.club/
        
       | dpatru wrote:
       | It seems to me that at the implementation stage, the things that
       | never change and the things that do change are the same. For
       | example, customers will always want low prices and fast delivery.
       | Internet ordering and robots in warehouses are things that
       | change. But the changes are better ways to fulfill the unchanging
       | needs. So Bezos sees investments in internet ordering and robots
       | as investments in what does not change. Whereas Andreessen sees
       | the same investments as betting on change. So what difference
       | does their point of view make if both entrepreneurs end up making
       | the same investments?
        
       | breck wrote:
       | "If you want to invent something that will still be used in 30
       | years, invent something that would have been used 30 years ago."
       | - [taleb i think]
        
       | highfrequency wrote:
       | > I very frequently get the question: "What's going to change in
       | the next 10 years?" That's a very interesting question. I almost
       | never get the question: "What's not going to change in the next
       | 10 years?" And I submit to you that that second question is
       | actually the more important of the two. You can build a business
       | strategy around the things that are stable in time. In our retail
       | business, we know that customers want low prices, and I know
       | that's going to be true 10 years from now. They want fast
       | delivery; they want vast selection.
       | 
       | Also Bezos (paraphrased): "While working at D.E. Shaw, I heard
       | that the internet was growing at 2,300% per year. And I asked
       | myself: 'what kind of business makes sense to start in the
       | context of that kind of growth?'"
       | 
       | The Holy Grail is when a big change allows you to get a foothold
       | in solving a fundamental, unchanging problem better than it has
       | been solved before - and then leveraging that foothold with rapid
       | iteration and growth.
        
         | makestuff wrote:
         | I wonder if back in 1990s people were as skeptical of the
         | internet as they are of the metaverse/web3/crypto/autonomous
         | driving today. All of the big money bets seem to be in these
         | areas, and I wonder if there were a similar group of 4-5
         | industries that all of the money was going to in the 90s only
         | for the internet to win out in the end as the best returns for
         | investors.
        
           | tabtab wrote:
           | "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the
           | future." -- Yogi Berra
           | 
           | For every ten IT trends/fads, roughly only one has staying
           | power in my observation. The others often move into niches or
           | fade.
           | 
           | If anyone was that good at predicting the diamonds from the
           | duds, they'd be golfing with Warren Buffett instead of poking
           | around Hacker News.
           | 
           | Note that I thought the internet had big potential in the
           | late 90's, as I was getting hooked on Compuserve (a precursor
           | to webbish things). I just didn't think it would ruin biz
           | CRUD/GUI's, rather staying in the consumer lane.
        
           | galdosdi wrote:
           | I remember that time, and no, it was nothing like crypto. A
           | better analogy would be electric vehicles today.
           | 
           | Yes, a loose analogy can be made in that there was a hyped
           | technology that some people thought might become huge, others
           | thought might merely become large or medium sized, and most
           | others were pretty unaware or didn't care.
           | 
           | Unlike with crypto, during the late 90s internet/PC/web usage
           | explosion, though, there were decades of successful smaller
           | scale use (BBSes, academic use of the internet, etc). It was
           | just a matter of scaling it up. The future was already here,
           | just unevenly distributed.
           | 
           | Unlike crypto, a lot of the usages were not just emotionally
           | exciting, but actually practical. You could look up a stock
           | quote right away instead of looking at an outdated quote in
           | the paper, or calling a broker on the phone, or having a
           | dedicated fancy service just for that. You could email a
           | friend half way around the world. You could read the full
           | text of a book for free, if it was from before 1923. In
           | general, you could transmit information freely and cheaply
           | across the world -- as long as both recipient and sender were
           | on the internet somehow.
           | 
           | All of those things previously were not possible that easily.
           | There were faxes and landline phones already, but they had
           | their obvious limitations.
           | 
           | Crypto is totally different. It's been hyped for two decades
           | and, except for illegal activities, still hasn't enabled
           | anything that could not be done more efficiently with SQL
           | database to track who owns what, and a system of courts and
           | law enforcement to enforce property rights and enforce
           | contracts.
           | 
           | If you think they are similar you probably don't remember
           | just how different it was to not have a single simple easy
           | way to get and receive information. You had to actually go
           | specific places or talk to specific people. You would do
           | stuff like check movie times in the newspaper, and make
           | specific plans to meet people at specific times.
           | 
           | I still remember when Tell Me came out. It was a phone number
           | interface to some basic internet applications like weather,
           | news, sports, movie times. You called 1-800-TELL-ME and
           | followed the prompts. It was massively popular.
           | 
           | Where is crypto's TellMe moment? Nowhere. The only useful
           | thing I've ever been able to do with crypto is accidentally
           | profit $8000 because I forgot I had owned some I had bought
           | as a joke... which came directly out of someone else's pocket
           | later when it crashed.
           | 
           | If you're looking for a historical analogy, tulipmania is a
           | good one. So is the boom in joint stock companies in the
           | 1600s. So is the plank road boom of the late 1800s.
           | 
           | Nobody had as strong opinions about the internet being a
           | horrifying scam, like many do about crypto. Because it
           | wasn't, and there was no reason to think it was. The main
           | "issue" was, would it catch on? Was it too nerdy? I mean,
           | it's not like now, where the internet is almost slightly cool
           | to some young people. Buying a modem was extremely uncool.
           | And it cost a lot of money. So it was more of a question of
           | "Is it really ready for prime time yet or does it need to
           | become easier to use and cheaper?" much like EVs today. And,
           | again, like EVs today, the problem was solved gradually but
           | exponentially... each succeessive cost decrease or simplicity
           | increase lead to another wave of converts, which made the
           | whole thing more useful, solving the chicken and egg problem
           | gradually
        
             | l8nite wrote:
             | I'm replying only because I worked at Tellme, and I'm happy
             | other people remember it still! :)
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-11-21 23:00 UTC)