[HN Gopher] DVD sales surpass Blu-ray in 2021: Physical format m...
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       DVD sales surpass Blu-ray in 2021: Physical format market
        
       Author : ksec
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2022-11-21 15:46 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
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       | duffyjp wrote:
       | We only buy physical movies on DVD because that's what our
       | minivan can play and that's the only time we need a physical
       | disc. I thing the general reason is just cost though, I'm not
       | going to spend $25 on a disc I'm only going to watch once. I'll
       | just rent it from Prime etc.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Goodwill can be a decent source of DVDs, even if some might not
         | work, they're certainly cheap enough.
        
           | mxuribe wrote:
           | THIS! Isn't this part of the circular economy? If not, then
           | it should be. This right here is what we shold all be doing!
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | Consider buying DVDs used from Amazon. I haven't had any
         | reliability issues, and I don't care if the kids destroy discs
         | I paid a few dollars for.
        
           | mrguyorama wrote:
           | """USED""" DVDs on ebay are $4 or so a pop, reliably
           | available, ship in a couple days, and nobody is going to rob
           | your collection of your favorite movie 3 years down the line.
        
         | Thlom wrote:
         | We also have a dvd player in our van. It's hell on earth when
         | you put on a dvd for the kids and then 20 minutes in it starts
         | skipping or just freeze. Been looking into replacing it with a
         | more modern player with hdmi input or something so I can just
         | hook up an iPad or something instead.
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | One thing I've noticed is that many DVDs look like utter crap
       | when I watch them on a 70" TV. The MPEG compression artifacts are
       | very noticeable; unless the DVD is compressed very carefully.
       | 
       | I just decided that, if I think I'm going to watch something a
       | few times, I'll seek out the 4k disk.
        
       | rado wrote:
       | VHS, you're next
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | D-VHS would be great!
        
       | hajile wrote:
       | DVD could have a new lease on life if they'd create an updated
       | spec with something like AV1. IIRC, Youtube uses around 2.5GB/hr
       | for 4k which would mean almost 3 hours of 4k content on a dual-
       | layer DVD at streaming quality. That would be good enough for
       | most people.
        
         | chungy wrote:
         | AVCHD was basically that concept: it uses the Blu-ray file
         | structures, formats, and codecs, but stored on a DVD-R(OM).
         | 
         | It has the problem that it only works in Blu-ray Players, not
         | standard DVD players, so the usefulness of it is drastically
         | diminished.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | The value of DVD is that you can stick a disc into anything
         | that says "DVD player" and it'll work. Inventing a new format,
         | like AV1 on DVD media, means you need new player hardware -- at
         | which point you might as well just use Blu-ray.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | hajile wrote:
           | DVD hardware is way cheaper. Manufacturing DVDs is also way
           | cheaper. DVDs patents should have also all expired.
           | 
           | DVD HD or similar player branding could distinguish these
           | decently well too.
        
             | woobar wrote:
             | They could always ask USB guys about proper naming. "DVD2
             | Gen 1.2 (240 Mbit/s)" is my vote.
        
             | thesuitonym wrote:
             | Calling it DVD would almost make it a non-starter. HD DVD
             | lost, DVD is old. Who wants something old? You'd probably
             | have to call it something like red disc (Stylized as reDisc
             | of course).
        
             | PostOnce wrote:
             | too late https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
             | 
             | We'll have to go with DVDPro or QuantumDVD or DVD 2 or
             | something ridiculous :)
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | 1) It's probably not good enough for 4K if you've got a viewing
         | set-up on which you can actually tell the difference between 4k
         | and 1080p. Which, sure, is only a smallish minority of viewers.
         | 
         | 2) But you can fit a basically-perfect 1080P rip on a dual-
         | layer DVD with modern codecs. Easily.
        
           | hajile wrote:
           | With an 85" TV, you have to be within 11 feet to notice the
           | difference with 1080p. With a 55" TV, that drops down to
           | about 7 feet.
           | 
           | A great setup will show a difference, but those people
           | probably think nothing of shelling out tons of money for 4k
           | and 8k media. They'd hardly be the target market here.
        
       | XorNot wrote:
       | This is because your plain can't get a bunch of stuff on Blu-Ray.
       | There are new releases coming out which don't come out on Blu-
       | Ray.
        
       | scrivna wrote:
       | For me at least the ever increasing DPI increases have just not
       | been worth the extra expense, I see 4K is better than my 1080 TV
       | but i don't care enough about it to spend the money to upgrade. I
       | imagine the dirt cheap DVDs are more preferable to people than
       | the more expensive Blu-rays, I get the same amount of
       | entertainment from both for most movies that aren't really
       | focussed on the visuals alone.
        
         | derbOac wrote:
         | The thing these discussions invariably miss for awhile until
         | someone points it out -- I see this on art cinema forums all
         | the time -- is that all of the resolutions are functionally
         | bottlenecked by things having nothing to do with the disc.
         | 
         | The size of the screen, for instance, how far you're sitting
         | from it, your actual visual acuity, and so forth and so on.
         | Because these things tend to be suboptimal more than they are
         | optimal, the benefits of higher resolution have diminishing
         | returns, because you have to increasingly have everything "just
         | right" for it to matter.
         | 
         | There's been studies showing that in actual typical viewing
         | conditions for most actual people, higher resolution formats
         | are overkill.
         | 
         | My preference is for blu-ray for instance but we have a small
         | screen by today's standards, which we really don't have any
         | desire to replace in size.
        
         | amalcon wrote:
         | Honestly I agree with you, but I was one of those people who
         | mostly cared about high definition TV because the sound was
         | better. I think we're something of a rare breed.
        
         | iso1631 wrote:
         | For someone with 20:20 (6:6) vision SD means your screen should
         | fill 20 degrees of your viewing angle, HD 30, and UHD 40.
         | 
         | Recommendations for most viewing is 30 degrees, but for the
         | fully immersive THX/Theatre style viewing you want 40 degeres.
         | 
         | That means for watching your 70" TV you should be about 8'
         | away. If you are watching UHD then that's great, you won't see
         | any resolution artifacts, but with HD you will see a
         | difference.
         | 
         | However if you're 9' away from your screen you won't get any
         | uhd resolution benefits.
         | 
         | (That's setting aside other UHD features, especially HDR)
         | 
         | Of course maybe you have better than 20:20 eyesight.
        
         | bob1029 wrote:
         | I find the display technology also has a huge impact on how DPI
         | is perceived.
         | 
         | Watching 480p content on an old 65" Panasonic plasma is somehow
         | _much_ more tolerable than watching it on my M1 MacBook or
         | another LCD-style monitor.
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | The jump to 1080p from 480p is very, very noticeable-- I own
         | Firefly on both DVD and Blu-Ray, and I accidentally watched a
         | few minutes of an episode on the DVD version before being
         | like.... wait, what? and then realizing what had happened and
         | switching discs.
         | 
         | However, IMO the jump from 1080p to 4K is way more marginal.
         | It's definitely better, but it's just not that much better than
         | what your TV's built in upscaler can do, nevermind some future
         | AI-powered DLSS-type upscaler.
        
           | simcop2387 wrote:
           | that AI powered DLSS type upscaler exists now, though I'm
           | only aware of a few products that have it, particularly the
           | NVIDIA Shield devices.
        
           | AlexandrB wrote:
           | There's a problem though when studios mess with the original
           | to do the Blu-Ray release. For example, _The Wire_ went from
           | 4:3 (DVD) to 16:9 (Blu-Ray) and introduced some problems[1].
           | There are worse cases like the infamously bad Buffy Blu Ray
           | release[2].
           | 
           | Blu Ray releases would be great if they didn't mess with the
           | source material. But this seems to happen all the time. I'll
           | take the flaws of 480p over that kind of stuff any day.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.vox.com/2014/12/3/7327539/wire-bluray
           | 
           | [2] https://www.themarysue.com/remastered-buffy-is-a-butt/
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | hotpotamus wrote:
           | I'd say the jump from 480 to 720 is huge, and to 1080 is
           | quite nice. 4K is already fairly marginal to my eyes and I
           | can't imagine shopping for an 8K TV. Perhaps at a wall size
           | TV, but I'm still quite well served by a 42" 1080p Sony TV I
           | got in 2009 or 2010 (can't remember exactly).
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | At about 8' distance from my 65" 4K TV I don't notice the
             | difference between 720p and 1080p. At 5' distance I do
             | notice. Even at 5', though, the visible difference between
             | 1080p vs. 4k is tiny. And it's practically impossible to
             | sit much closer than that and still have room to walk
             | between the TV and front row. Maybe if I ever get a
             | projector with an 80" diagonal screen or something, it will
             | matter.
             | 
             | My screen does HDR but it's not oled so the benefit to hdr
             | sources is barely noticeable, and anyway you can get high-
             | quality 1080p downsample rips that retain the hdr data.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | I can notice a 480p when watching vs 1080, but only really
             | notice 1080 vs 4k if I pause and happen to wander near the
             | screen.
        
               | ugjka wrote:
               | 4K kind of loses its sharpness when they add film grain
               | and blur on purpose.
               | 
               | On the other hand there are some very stunning 4k nature
               | videos on Youtube that blow me away
        
             | Consultant32452 wrote:
             | For my money, 720p is more than enough for any movie except
             | visually compelling movies. For things like LOTR, Star
             | Wars, and some of the super-hero series I really appreciate
             | that 1080p. My eyesight isn't good enough to discern 4k.
        
             | mikepurvis wrote:
             | Definitely fair-- I'm rocking a 60" 1080p panel that was
             | left by the previous occupants of the house, and it's
             | perfectly adequate to my needs; I expect it is of similar
             | vintage, in any case.
             | 
             | I haven't felt any appetite for picking up a 4K unit,
             | particularly if it means having to navigate the whole world
             | of "smart" TV apps, figuring which stuff I want to use vs
             | disable, and how to go about doing that.
        
               | Thlom wrote:
               | You don't have to use the smart functions. Just hook up
               | the peripherals you are using now and call it a day.
        
           | jaywalk wrote:
           | 4K by itself is marginal. But 4K HDR is incredible.
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | I wish they'd published the graph on an absolute scale and not a
       | relative one, because I have no idea if DVD sales have increased
       | or decreased. Only that the ratio with blu-ray has changed.
       | 
       | I strongly suspect that the subheadline "DVD sales skyrocket in
       | the last year" is simply false.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | Yeah, and even the relative bump in Q1 2021 was due to
         | backlogged sales from 2020 supply interruptions. A more recent
         | release of the same periodic data indicates that:
         | 
         | """The total video disc market is still clearly in decline in
         | the US (and globally) and does not appear to be recovering
         | after the Covid 19 delays of new disc releases due to
         | theatrical releases being postponed or moved to streaming. In
         | the US, video disc sales fell 25.5% from $3.29 billion in 2019
         | to $2.45 billion in 2020 and an additional 20% to $1.97 billion
         | in 2021. In the first quarter of 2022, video disc sales
         | continued their decline with an additional 19% drop year-over-
         | year."""
        
       | substation13 wrote:
       | Why not buy the movie you want to watch (so that the creators get
       | paid) and then torrent an .mkv you can play anywhere and keep
       | forever?
        
         | googlryas wrote:
         | Do creators get paid more when you buy DVDs vs digital
         | versions?
        
           | substation13 wrote:
           | Good question - it might even be less due to DVD resale
           | market
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | That "forever" for the .mkv comes at a pretty high cost in time
         | and money, if you really want a decent chance of it actually
         | lasting a lifetime. You can reduce one by making the other go
         | up, but there's gonna be some cost in both.
         | 
         | Then again you have to store physical disks. And pay for them,
         | of course. Pick your poison I guess.
        
         | wolrah wrote:
         | > Why not buy the movie you want to watch (so that the creators
         | get paid) and then torrent an .mkv you can play anywhere and
         | keep forever?
         | 
         | This is exactly the approach I've taken for the HD era and it
         | works great.
         | 
         | Back in the DVD era I had a well optimized ripping setup, I put
         | hours in to tuning everything so I could pop a new disc in and
         | have it ready to play on my Windows Media Center instance as
         | quickly as my drive would read it.
         | 
         | At this point though, it's just not worth the trouble.
         | Especially for UHD content, ripping that is just a nightmare.
         | These days when I buy a new disc I just add it to a list on my
         | server and my server goes out, finds whatever quality copy I
         | told it to look for, downloads it, extracts it, names it
         | according to my standards, and tells Plex to update its
         | metadata.
         | 
         | More often than not by the time I get home the content is
         | already there on my server waiting for me and I can toss the
         | disc on the rack for display purposes. In my last move I had an
         | entire box of discs that were still sealed in their original
         | plastic.
         | 
         | It's the best of all worlds. The content owners get their
         | money, I get a DRM-free copy that I can play on what I want
         | when I want. It's not strictly legal but it's morally clean.
         | The end result is the same as if I had ripped it myself, just
         | with less effort on my part.
        
       | hateful wrote:
       | Maybe all the people that never went from DVD to Blu-ray are
       | still on DVD now that the others have moved to streaming?
        
         | jmugan wrote:
         | Yep, that's what I was thinking. Odd it wasn't mentioned or
         | looked at.
        
       | bob1029 wrote:
       | Not surprising based on my experience. BR hardware/software is a
       | nightmare to maintain. Lots of new multimedia tech really sucks
       | in terms of the overall experience.
       | 
       | In the codec realm, I find myself going all the way back to MPEG1
       | for a side project. Getting 100% of the patents/royalties out of
       | the equation does wonders for compatibility. ISO is still getting
       | me on the standards docs, but that's a one-time cost.
       | 
       | Not every application/customer on earth demands the bleeding edge
       | in efficiency or quality. Especially in the information theory
       | arena - you are always trading something else important. It's
       | usually latency, memory & compute, which are very powerful
       | dragons when trying to scale real-world applications.
        
       | deergomoo wrote:
       | At the risk of sounding like a complete snob, it annoys me that
       | DVDs are still sold. Blu Ray has been on the market 6 years
       | longer than DVD had when Blu Ray players were first released.
       | 
       | I appreciate that many don't care about visual quality, but the
       | baseline of TVs continues to improve with time, and DVD supports
       | literally nothing rolled out in the last 15 years.
       | 
       | At 720x480 resolution (rectangular pixels!), they're guaranteed
       | to look like crap on any TV produced this decade. I can only
       | imagine it's a case of "people keep buying 'em so we keep selling
       | 'em", which is doubly annoying because it allows the price of BD
       | players and discs to be kept artificially high as an "enthusiast"
       | option. A standard player on Amazon today is only about half the
       | price of what I paid for a nice Sony player in 2012. And that's
       | adjusted for inflation.
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | A _lot_ of people are still using old TVs or have a very small
         | one they watch far enough away that 480p is barely, if at all,
         | worse than 1080p.
        
         | Blackthorn wrote:
         | The industry groups only have themselves to blame. The fragile
         | and shitty Blu-ray DRM makes it random whether a disc will work
         | or not. Who the hell would buy that?
        
         | hulitu wrote:
         | > At the risk of sounding like a complete snob, it annoys me
         | that DVDs are still sold.
         | 
         | Playing a DVD is easy. Playing a Bluray is difficult, you need
         | special SW.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | I have no data to back this up, but gut feeling is people who
           | watch physical media on a computer are a tiny minority.
           | 
           | For a start barely any of them come with optical drives
           | anymore.
        
       | jonas21 wrote:
       | The article seems to be confusing relative share of the physical
       | media market with absolute sales. Its claim that "DVD sales
       | skyrocket in the last year" is simply not true. Both DVD and Blu-
       | ray sales have been declining every year - but Blu-ray sales
       | declined more rapidly in 2020 than DVD.
        
       | nu11ptr wrote:
       | > "In addition, it is possible to read DVD movies on any laptop,
       | something that is not the case with Blu-ray"
       | 
       | How many laptops still have any form of optical drive? None of
       | the laptops I'm aware of
        
       | fedeb95 wrote:
       | In my opinion, the main point is that "quality" is highly
       | subjective. High definition may not matter most to some users, at
       | least not compared to acting, direction and photography of the
       | movie. Also I believe the customers of physicals are more
       | interested in those parameters than resolution.
       | 
       | Another point to consider is that old movies don't gain that much
       | from blue ray.
       | 
       | In conclusion, the higher price of blue rays doesn't justify the
       | increase of quality for some users, who may value other
       | parameters more.
        
         | chungy wrote:
         | > Another point to consider is that old movies don't gain that
         | much from blue ray.
         | 
         | Disagree :) The oldest movies I own on Blu-ray are Gone With
         | the Wind and The Wizard of Oz, and both of them are visually
         | improved by being in HD compared to the DVD releases. I
         | wouldn't really prefer SD for anything regardless of age.
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | > I wouldn't really prefer SD for anything regardless of age.
           | 
           | For movies, sure. But a lot of content produced for TV wasn't
           | produced and/or archived in HD formats. Some older shows are
           | _occasionally_ remastered in HD if the original film can be
           | found and digitized, but that 's a fairly expensive and time-
           | consuming process when it's possible at all. Older content
           | that's in low demand, like children's shows or soap operas,
           | may stay SD forever.
        
             | chungy wrote:
             | If the original production isn't possible to master in HD,
             | then fine, you don't have a choice but to (hopefully) enjoy
             | the show in SD. Same if it is possible but it hasn't been
             | done (eg: Star Trek DS9 and Voyager).
             | 
             | On thinking about things when I make this post, I remember
             | that DragonBall has never had a good HD remaster done,
             | there's always DNR applied to it, soundtracks switched out,
             | et al. Old VHSes might actually be preferable to the modern
             | Blu-rays in that circumstance.
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | > Another point to consider is that old movies don't gain that
         | much from blue ray
         | 
         | Very much not the case. The detail in 35mm film can scale to 4K
         | and beyond very nicely.
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | My favorite 4K movies are the ones on originally recorded on
           | 35mm, in fact, as far as looks go.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | As with all media, mastering makes a big difference. If you
         | just stick a film into a TC machine and directly encode to DVD
         | then film-grain (and other artifacts) will demolish the quality
         | of a DVD because so many of the bits end up being spent
         | encoding noise. HEVC handles this somewhat better _and_ the
         | higher bitrate of Blu-ray gives the codec some breathing-room.
        
       | kjkjadksj wrote:
       | Having a DVD library is tempting. Physical media that you own and
       | is easy to rip digitally, etc. However I popped in a disc
       | recently and was reminded of how bad the dvd experience was. It
       | just stopped playing two scenes in. Took it out, the disk looked
       | perfect. Tried again, stopped at the exact same moment. There
       | goes that disk I guess, it was probably 20 years old to be fair
       | but thats true for most dvds you'd find in the used bin.
        
         | jvm___ wrote:
         | I tried watching Terminator 2 with my son the other day, we'd
         | had the DVD for ages to eventually watch. The mint looking DVD
         | refused to load in the DVD player so we pirated it to watch
         | instead.
        
         | smaudet wrote:
         | Laptops partially fixed this issue - you can just skip the bad
         | parts.
         | 
         | Higher end dvd players used to do the same, but players are a
         | vanishing breed and consoles are not much more than dumb
         | players usually.
         | 
         | Ofc it would be nice if there were just no skipping - there
         | were a number of technologies being employed back when DVD was
         | the pretty much the only format in town, I suspect the data
         | redundancy may have been traded for cramming more features on a
         | disk.
         | 
         | Back when ripping (my own) disks was a thing, you could
         | compress a movie to half its size on disk (no coded compression
         | just more intensive picture compression) and burn it twice to
         | the same disk...
         | 
         | Ofc the problem with that was the consumer burnable disks use a
         | degrading chemistry unlike stamped copies, so they would last
         | 3-4 years before undergoing significant corruption.
        
         | kurthr wrote:
         | It's a good idea to try ripping the DVD anyway... often ripping
         | software is more tolerant (better at
         | correcting/retrying/skipping) errors than the players. And as I
         | think you're implying, once ripped you don't have to worry
         | about THAT physical media.
         | 
         | You remind me. I have some DVDs I need to rip (before they go
         | bad)!
        
         | triceratops wrote:
         | That's never been my experience. I get my DVDs almost
         | exclusively from the library - not once has one ever failed to
         | play for me.
        
           | BeetleB wrote:
           | > I get my DVDs almost exclusively from the library - not
           | once has one ever failed to play for me.
           | 
           | Over the last few years, the experience with DVDs/Blu-Rays
           | from the library has been trending downwards. I would say
           | about a quarter of the movies I check out from the library
           | have some problem somewhere in the movie where the player
           | either gets stuck or skips.
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | DVDs are great entire because I rip them immediately to get rid
         | of the menu and governmental mandatory ads. The DVD box gets
         | stored in a bin.
        
           | runlevel1 wrote:
           | > governmental mandatory ads
           | 
           | Do you mean the annoying FBI Anti-Piracy warning? If so,
           | that's actually a voluntary thing the publisher added.[^1]
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2012-16506/p-8
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | I regularly discover that even new DVDs won't play. It's a crap
         | shoot.
         | 
         | Then there's the menu system on it. Every DVD has to re-invent
         | menus, usually badly. For example, they often do not display
         | what options are actually set or not. Sometimes it's even hard
         | to find the cursor.
         | 
         | The only good thing about DVDs is you can turn on the Eddie
         | Mueller commentary for film noir movies. That man is an
         | unending gold mine of snark, wit, and funny/interesting
         | comments. He's often more interesting than the movie.
        
           | zbrozek wrote:
           | It's been at least 15 years since I've touched a DVD, but I
           | recall the menu system to be the worst feature of it. I've
           | never once wanted anything but the main feature. Also may the
           | product people who decided on "unskippable scenes" go to a
           | purgatory where they're surrounded by nothing but copyright
           | notices for eternity.
        
             | ncpa-cpl wrote:
             | > Also may the product people who decided on "unskippable
             | scenes" go to a purgatory where they're surrounded by
             | nothing but copyright notices for eternity.
             | 
             | The first time I used Netflix about a decade ago I was
             | surprised how fast play worked.
             | 
             | Now that you mention that, I was coming from a world of DVD
             | menus and unskippable notices. So the Netflix UX was a
             | great improvement.
        
             | jollyllama wrote:
             | Purgatory usually has a temporary connotation, eternity
             | would imply hell.
        
             | Moru wrote:
             | I use VLC for the very few movies I watch so can't say if
             | it works on all movies. Most of the time you can just
             | select "No disc menus" and it goes directly to the movie.
             | Then you can select language and subs as you want in the
             | normal windows style menus in VLC.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | The commentary tracks on DVDs could be quite good at best--
           | even if they were also hit or miss. Unfortunately they seem
           | to have pretty much vanished. I assume that the volume of
           | DVDs these days doesn't justify the cost/effort of recording
           | these any longer.
        
             | WorldMaker wrote:
             | My impression is that a bunch of it has to do with "4K UHD"
             | Blu-Ray uses just about all the space for the main feature
             | and required languages per region and has very little spare
             | room. (As did "3D" Blu-Ray, though those are mostly extinct
             | today.) The early solution to that was "4K UHD" releases
             | were all expensive "Collector's Editions" that bundled a
             | standard Blu-Ray and/or DVD with all the "special features"
             | including commentaries (increasing the marginal costs of
             | all the packaging by including multiple discs). The late
             | solution today seems to be to just ignore all the "special
             | features" entirely, planning only for the lowest common
             | denominator amount of extra space, and things like
             | commentaries are slowly disappearing as an expected bonus
             | feature (again; it's not like these features existed in VHS
             | or Laserdisc; DVD was its own weird golden age).
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Laserdiscs had extra audio tracks with commentary on some
               | discs as I recall. (But the stack of LDs I have is in the
               | garage and it's too cold to check :-)) An audio track
               | shouldn't take much room. But not sure about actual
               | numbers.
        
           | avian wrote:
           | > Every DVD has to re-invent menus, usually badly.
           | 
           | My favorite one is the Fifth Element DVD. It has menus
           | implemented as options flying towards you in a loop and you
           | need to press the OK button on the remote just when the right
           | one is passing by. Works great if you have a DVD player with
           | a slightly laggy CPU and an IR remote. It always reminds of
           | that "the worst volume control UI" website that was doing
           | rounds on social media a while back.
        
             | jonny_eh wrote:
             | Here's a link to a compilation of those "worst volume
             | control UIs": https://uxdesign.cc/the-worst-volume-control-
             | ui-in-the-world...
        
             | ncpa-cpl wrote:
             | I'd give the first price for worse DVD UX to the original
             | Harry Potter 1 DVD menu.
             | 
             | In order to see the deleted scenes you had to race a broom
             | through a maze in the forbidden forest selecting the
             | correct way each time.
        
           | nebula8804 wrote:
           | 13 Years later and Jame Rolfe's rant on DVDs still rings true
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsdzaEVeFEE
           | 
           | He makes a great point at then end when comparing VHS to DVD:
           | Its like we are moving forward in technology but moving
           | backwards in the amount of BS we have to put up with just to
           | enjoy what we paid for. The VCR gave you more control
           | compared to DVD players.
           | 
           | Things haven't improved with Blue-Ray
           | 
           | [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tetXKdi9U3c
           | 
           | Streaming has eliminated many of these pain points in
           | exchange for freedom to truly own your media.
           | 
           | The best way to fight back is to buy the Blu-Ray, rip it
           | using MakeMKV thereby creating an MKV file that contains the
           | ability to jump chapter by chapter, have any audio track you
           | want, etc but with none of the junk that you are forced to
           | use when you pop the Blue-Ray into the player. The best of
           | all worlds.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I remember reading reviews of DVD players to find the ones
           | that "slipped through" testing with things like ad skip and
           | "direct to menu" and "direct to feature" options that you
           | could enable.
           | 
           | Those players were always the best.
        
           | BeetleB wrote:
           | Consider that the player may be at fault.
           | 
           | Almost 2 decades ago, when I was considering getting a DVD+RW
           | drive for my PC, I thoroughly researched them and found they
           | all had differing error correction algorithms, and it made a
           | world of a difference. I got one known for this, and it often
           | played DVDs that neither my standalone DVD player nor my
           | roommate's DVD player on his PC could play.
           | 
           | I would have thought that by now they'd all be good at this,
           | but it seems not.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | To be fair that seems to happen quite regularly for me on
         | Netflix and Prime. The encoder hits a bug and the whole app
         | crashes. Fortunately it's usually random and you can just
         | restart the app.
         | 
         | Never seems to happen with pirated videos & VLC though.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | notmyfriend wrote:
        
       | mkozlows wrote:
       | This article is old, and the headline misleading. It's talking
       | about Q1 2021 sales, which in practice means it's talking about
       | 2020 movies, which means that these are weird, pandemic-fucked
       | numbers that don't really mean anything at all.
       | 
       | There are more recent numbers available. Here's the end of
       | October, the latest week available right now:
       | https://www.mediaplaynews.com/research/sales-report-for-week...
       | -- at the bottom of the page, you can see a link to the previous
       | week, and you can step back week-by-week.
       | 
       | If you do that, you'll see that DVD sales are larger than Blu-ray
       | sales, but it's in that 50-something range, which puts it about
       | on track with pre-pandemic trends. Also, disc sales in general
       | keep falling annually at an incredibly fast rate, so both DVD and
       | Blu-ray are tanking.
       | 
       | The obvious cause for this has nothing to do with particular
       | weakness in the Blu-ray format, but that the "mainstream" disc
       | market is now increasingly streaming, and the disc market is
       | bifurcating into:
       | 
       | 1. Technophobes who don't understand new technology, and who
       | don't understand or care about HDTV, and so just buy the same
       | DVDs they always bought.
       | 
       | 2. People who want the best possible image/sound quality,
       | collectors, and physical media fetishists. This is a niche
       | market, and always has been.
       | 
       | The obvious end state is that DVD fades out in the same way that
       | CD sales are fading out in the music world, and that 4K UHD Blu-
       | ray ends up in the vinyl-style collector niche.
        
       | smackeyacky wrote:
       | DVD players themselves seem to have declined markedly in quality
       | since they became commodities.
       | 
       | I have a new-ish blu-ray player that baulks at the layer change
       | on a DVD, or refuses to play some titles. I also have a high
       | quality Sony upscaling player I bought at a thrift shop that will
       | play anything. I will be unhappy when that dies. Unfortunately,
       | the introduction of HDMI seemed to coincide with the drop in
       | quality of DVD players so you may have to buy a chain of chinese
       | dongles to get the good quality players to work in your lounge.
       | 
       | Ripping your DVDs is probably a good idea, not because of the
       | playability issues to do with the disks themselves, but to do
       | with finding a decent, working DVD player at any price.
       | 
       | edit: the main problem I have with commercial streaming media is
       | that they are using all the nasty tricks of DVD to compress the
       | image below what you can notice on a modern TV. Crushed blacks,
       | blockiness when the stream gets compromised by traffic etc. Blu-
       | ray held such promise and it can look fantastic with a higher
       | average bit stream rate than streaming, but they are getting
       | harder to purchase as the retail outlets disappear.
        
       | bawolff wrote:
       | I wish dvds used the same scratch resistant coatings bluray does.
       | DVDs are insanely fragile.
        
       | spansoa wrote:
       | I much prefer to own a physical copy of media instead of relying
       | on streaming services. I have a large DVD collection and I'm
       | proud of it. Streaming doesn't sit well with me and you have to
       | re-download the media each time you watch it, which feels wrong
       | and a waste of bandwidth too.
        
         | paulryanrogers wrote:
         | Do you rip discs? I prefer rips to shuffling discs.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | gear54rus wrote:
         | Why not simply store a file on a disk though. It's not that
         | storage is very expensive or anything
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | > ...instead of relying on streaming services...
         | 
         | I'm getting to the point where i want ther video file so i can
         | save it locally. Sure DVDs are fine, because i can rip
         | them....I really only want physiucal media until i have ripped
         | to my local digital library. I know some movie companies used
         | to offer a "digital download" of the move if you bought a
         | disc....Not sure if that's still a thing. And who knows if that
         | format was even some crap proprietary, locked doen edition
         | anyway. But, yeah, i prefer my own offline-available, digital
         | copy of media myself.
        
       | mxuribe wrote:
       | In addition to some reason cited for the increase around DVD
       | format, i would posit some of the following too:
       | 
       | * Parents buy cheaper DVDs for their very young
       | children...Children who care less about display quality.
       | 
       | * While travel plummeted during middle of pandemic, there were
       | still people who took road trips (e.g. maybe for staying with
       | family, etc.)...and during those roadtrips, i'm sure some
       | families opted for DVDs and DVD players instead of trying to
       | stream stuff while on the road, etc.
       | 
       | * Many folks buy cheap DVDs, because their favorite movies stop
       | being available on their current subscriptionsof streaming
       | servicews. I hate this myself. So, my partner bought 3 or 4 of
       | their favorite movies, so we can watch them whenever we want -
       | even if we lack internet (though we would need power for the dvd
       | player of course)
       | 
       | * Vinyl records have their followers who revitaliuzed the
       | format...so maybe there are collectors of DVDS...?
       | 
       | I'm sure there are other reasons for why this is happening.
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | * The bins of shit-tier movies near checkout lanes at Menards
         | and Wal-Mart are mostly or all DVDs--if disc sales in general
         | decline, that particular segment might remain steady.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | Blu-Ray players can be blacklisted at any time. If you can't
         | get it updated it's useless for playing new releases.
        
         | unfocused wrote:
         | I have Vinyl records, but my goal is to digitize them. They're
         | my Dads from 1940s, 50s, and many are 78s, so I had so search
         | Kijiji ads to get a player that plays that speed. Dual 1009 was
         | what I settled on.
         | 
         | As for DVDs/Blu Ray, I only buy things like Planet Earth or
         | other docs. Sure enough, just yesterday I tried playing Planet
         | Earth II on UHD 4K Blu Ray on an Xbox Series X, albeit I still
         | have a 1080p TV (bought used) and 1080p Receiver (bought used,
         | Sony STR-DN1000 that I paid $50 for) and it was glitching.
         | _sigh_ Time to hit up Bit Torrent and download a ripped version
         | of the Documentary that I already paid for. Argh.
         | 
         | Both Blu Ray and Vinyl are susceptible to one day not being
         | playable. By ripping them into digital, we can hopefully keep
         | the content playable well into the future.
        
           | mxuribe wrote:
           | > ...By ripping them into digital, we can hopefully keep the
           | content playable well into the future...
           | 
           | Yep, this is my preferred direction, and of course an
           | offline-accessible though digital edition may be less prone
           | to issues of wonky players, or warped physical media.
        
           | ncpa-cpl wrote:
           | I've been wanting to play my grand mother's vynil collection
           | for some time.
           | 
           | Are modern turntables reliable? Or is a vintage one
           | preferred?
        
             | ace2358 wrote:
             | Why would modern ones not be reliable? They're fantastic!
             | Having said that, for your old vinyl collection, you will
             | find the quality of the player mostly irrelevant. The age
             | of those vinyls will make them sound like a 32kbits/s mp3
             | file!
             | 
             | Have fun and good luck!
        
           | trynewideas wrote:
           | > many are 78s, so I had so search Kijiji ads to get a player
           | that plays that speed. Dual 1009 was what I settled on
           | 
           | Many modern turntables, including cheap ones, support 78 rpm.
           | (Quick search finds 11 new 78 rpm-supporting models at Best
           | Buy in Canada, starting from $80. An $85 Sylvania that
           | supports 78s can also digitize directly to USB storage.[1])
           | 
           | Did you mean 16 2/3 rpm records, which the Dual 1009 supports
           | and most modern turntables don't?
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/sylvania-
           | src831-3-speed...
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | "Vinyl records have their followers who revitalized the
         | format...so maybe there are collectors of DVDS...?"
         | 
         | I think it's _possible_ this is happening or will happen,
         | perhaps in a similar vein to how vintage gamers /collectors now
         | venerate the GameCube and PS2 as the last bastion of consoles
         | that weren't designed to be online all the time, and will
         | therefore be playable "forever" in a way that everything which
         | has come after them will not.
         | 
         | At the same time, I feel like vinyl records are a little
         | different from a DVD-- from the analog tactility of them, the
         | size of the packaging leading to beautiful artwork, the fact
         | that they were the dominant format for decades, while DVDs got
         | barely fifteen years (the aughts and a bit beyond). It's easy
         | to love a record when you put it on and you can immediately
         | tell "yes, this is a high quality stereo audio experience that
         | I am having with this piece of media and the equipment I have
         | invested in for consuming it", and I'd argue there just isn't
         | really an equivalent experience for DVDs: they're always going
         | to be blurry, with janky menus and unskippable ad reels, blocky
         | subtitles, cheap plastic cases. Some of that changes with
         | collectors editions in special boxes or whatever, but I don't
         | know if it's widespread enough across the format as a whole to
         | really enable the kind of culture that exists around vinyl.
        
           | pdntspa wrote:
           | It is happening, my parents are proof. They have more DVDs
           | than the local library
        
             | mikepurvis wrote:
             | Are they doing collectory things like alphabetizing them
             | and putting them in special preservation cases, going
             | online to seek out mint copies of special editions, etc?
             | 
             | Not to discount your observations, but I'm curious to
             | differentiate between an active, intentional, curated
             | collection effort, vs hoarding or just not having gotten
             | around to tossing them all out yet despite that none have
             | been touched in 10 years. Most people I know who still have
             | a shelf or two of physical discs in their media/living
             | rooms look a lot more like the second case than the first
             | one.
        
               | pdntspa wrote:
               | It doesn't matter, they are in possession of literally
               | thousands of DVDs; the money is spent and the sale is
               | recorded.
               | 
               | There used to be a healthy market for DVD-specific
               | shelving; I have seen multiple bookcase-sized shelves
               | packed completely in one house.
        
           | mxuribe wrote:
           | > ...I feel like vinyl records are a little different from a
           | DVD-- from the analog tactility of them, the size of the
           | packaging leading to beautiful artwork...
           | 
           | Yeah, I can see what you mean.
        
       | Kon-Peki wrote:
       | If a movie isn't enjoyable at 720p (upscaled for a 4k tv), it
       | isn't going to be enjoyable at 4k either.
       | 
       | Blu-ray/4k isn't the crutch the studios were hoping for. Make
       | better movies.
        
       | mistersquid wrote:
       | I prefer DVD to Blu-ray because                 - Ripping DVDs I
       | own is simple and reliable.            - Ripping my Blu-rays is
       | complicated, error-prone, and expensive (custom software, custom
       | hardware)            - I'm macOS-based and there is no first-
       | party Blu-ray player for macOS.            - Third-party Blu-ray
       | apps are awful and unreliable and they jank through ripped Blu-
       | rays.
       | 
       | As a result, I stopped buying Blu-rays because ripped DVDs
       | provide the security/longevity of physical media with the
       | convenience of digital accessibility.
        
         | chungy wrote:
         | "Custom hardware" just amounts to having a Blu-ray Drive, and
         | they're not really expensive (or do you think $20 is
         | expensive?). You have a point on software, but MakeMKV can be
         | used for free for as long as it's called beta, which appears to
         | be forever at this point.
         | 
         | For me, the quality improvement from 480i/p to 1080p is huge
         | and I wouldn't personally sacrifice that. Lately I've been
         | buying 2160p discs when they're available (and if I don't have
         | a 1080p already... unlike the other jump, 1080p-2160p is not
         | significant), and for a couple years now, ripping them in
         | MakeMKV has been equally as trivial as 1080p discs.
         | 
         | Maybe your concession could be that most 1080p disc releases
         | bundle a DVD with them. ;)
        
           | fedeb95 wrote:
           | Still worse than using the dvd reader inside a laptop
        
             | dymk wrote:
             | I haven't had a laptop (or desktop) with a built in DVD
             | reader since 2015.
        
             | chungy wrote:
             | I just use a SATA Blu-ray Drive in my desktop. Works great.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | ubercow13 wrote:
           | If I understand correctly for UHD discs it amounts to having
           | not just any drive, but having a supported drive flashed to a
           | supported, sometime old, firmware version such that MakeMKV
           | is able to dynamically overwrite the drive firmware (ie, root
           | the drive) before ripping the disc. The whole process also
           | depends on downloading encryption keys from a server that are
           | per-disc, so if that goes down or stops being updated that
           | could prevent you ripping your discs again in future.
           | 
           | MakeMKV is incredible but the whole process seems fragile and
           | very complex.
        
             | smaudet wrote:
             | In addition macOS probably means macbook, where they either
             | don't have drive bays or only dvd drive bays.
        
             | post_break wrote:
             | Pioneer drives work out of the box with no firmware update.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | FHD Blu-rays rips really easily and the media are far more
         | durable/reliable. About 5% of my DVD collection fails to rip in
         | the simple manner, 1% doesn't rip at all[1], 100% of my Blu-ray
         | collection rips cleanly on the first try with makemkv.
         | 
         | 1: ddrescue on two different DVD drives can rip most DVDs (make
         | sure you authorized the drive first by opening it with a player
         | first), but I have 2 (out of nearly 200) that do not.
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | I legitimately don't understand how you can care enough about
         | movies and TV to buy physical media, but little enough that
         | standard definition is not a deal breaker. This is not a
         | criticism, it just makes absolutely no sense to me.
        
           | daveidol wrote:
           | Seriously - 480i is pretty awful these days. I don't even
           | watch YouTube videos at that resolution on my phone. I can't
           | imagine watching full movies at that resolution in 2022.
        
         | pdntspa wrote:
         | Nothing a basic BD-ROM and a AnyDVD HD license (and a PC I
         | guess) can't fix
        
         | skunkworker wrote:
         | I haven't seen this be a problem on MacOS with MakeMKV and a
         | good external bluray drive (one a slim bluray and another a LG
         | drive in a usb3 enclosure). I've had maybe 1 bad bluray disk
         | that I backed up out of the hundreds of blu-ray disks that I
         | own, and in that case it was the physical material separating
         | on the disk itself.
         | 
         | Edit: I have one of the good LG drives that works well with
         | Libredrive and as far as I've tested it can back up everything
         | I've thrown at it.
        
           | mistersquid wrote:
           | What software do you use to play ripped Blu-rays?
           | 
           | I've tried both Macgo Blu-ray Player [1] and Anymp4 Blu-ray
           | Player [2] and both have their playback issues. (Just a note
           | that Anymp4 may look sketchy, but they are a legit company
           | who do provide refunds if necessary.)
           | 
           | [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/macgo-blu-ray-player-
           | pro/id140...
           | 
           | [2] https://www.anymp4.com/blu-ray-player/
        
             | skunkworker wrote:
             | VLC can play them just fine and anything that supports
             | H.264/H.265 mkvs.
        
             | caycep wrote:
             | VLC basically. Or Plex if you have an apple TV.
             | 
             | I usually transcode using Don Melton's other-video-
             | transcoding ruby gem, albeit I think doing it on my PC w/
             | nvidia card seems to yield more consistent quality vs. the
             | Apple Silicon built-in HEVC encoder.
        
       | partiallypro wrote:
       | I buy physical media and rip them into a digital library.
       | Subscription based digital media is great, but they can yank the
       | rights at any moment.
        
         | hashmymustache wrote:
         | Including if you're in another country. I owned a movie on Vudu
         | that I wasn't able to stream in Canada due to licensing rights.
        
         | imiric wrote:
         | Judging by how the gaming industry is going, I'm afraid the
         | subscription model will only expand more in the movie industry
         | as well, until all physical media is considered a legacy
         | format. There will likely never be a successor to current
         | Bluray media.
         | 
         | Studios will love this as they can cut costs on manufacturing
         | and distribution, while forcing consumers into their
         | subscription service.
         | 
         | At that point piracy will be the only way to consume content
         | without any restrictions.
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | I think you've just defined the balance of freedom with fair
         | capitlaism...The artist(s) presumably gains revenue from your
         | purchase, but you gain vastly more flexibility to consume
         | however, whenver, and as many times as you wish the art
         | produced. Kudos!
        
       | steviedotboston wrote:
       | technology is cyclical
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | Digital _Versatile_ Disc indeed.
        
       | liampulles wrote:
       | The increase in fidelity over the last two decades is not the
       | biggest visual improvement in home entertainment. Color is.
       | 
       | I have an OLED 4k TV, maybe 10 Blu Rays, and well over 1000 DVDs.
       | I can definitely see the difference between a DVD and even 720p
       | content, but that's a difference you see when you are looking for
       | it. The pitch blacks are what grab you when you are not paying
       | attention, and you can get that regardless of the resolution.
       | 
       | (Also, ripping DVDs is a fun hobby, and much quicker to
       | experiment with than BR :) )
        
       | unnamed76ri wrote:
       | Buying physical media is so weird to me other than for young
       | children.
       | 
       | Once you've watched a movie or show once, why watch it again?
        
       | arh68 wrote:
       | I used to buy more Blu-Rays but some TV series have stopped disc
       | releases, presumably to drive streaming, or just aren't worth
       | buying.
       | 
       | Expanse: Season Five, specifically: why must I get Prime when
       | I've got Seasons 1 - 4 on disc? And who's gonna buy GoT S5-8?
       | Westworld S4?
       | 
       | I've got no comment on any _increase_ in DVD sales, though. That
       | 's not my market. I only rip CDs (which skip like crazy, while
       | I've literally never had a disc issue with DVD/Blu).
        
       | gtm1260 wrote:
       | Blu-ray 4k is an amazing media format for true enthusiasts.
       | Nothing beats the 100% complete compression artifact free viewing
       | experience. Good streaming services like apple tv get close, but
       | nothing beats Blu-ray UHD disks.
       | 
       | Would 99% of people on 99% of tvs not be able to tell any
       | difference? Probably.
        
         | chungy wrote:
         | > 100% complete compression artifact free viewing experience
         | 
         | That doesn't exist on 4K Blu-ray. 2160p titles use the HEVC
         | codec in combination with discs up to 125GB in capacity to
         | minimize the artifacts as much as possible, but they are never
         | gone.
         | 
         | That's video, anyway. Both 1080p and 2160p discs usually
         | include lossless audio tracks of at least one language. If your
         | box uses terms like "PCM", "DTS-HD MA"/"DTS-HD Master Audio",
         | "Dolby TrueHD", that audio track is lossless.
        
         | elihu wrote:
         | Something I've noticed: when DVD players came out, they quickly
         | dropped in price so after a few years you could buy one for $40
         | or so. Blu-ray players were the same, initially expensive, but
         | after awhile they were fairly cheap.
         | 
         | UHD Blu-ray players though have been out since 2016, and
         | average prices are still hovering around $200. Sometimes you
         | see one now around $150, so maybe prices are starting to drop.
         | 
         | You could blame inflation for part of that, but is it also just
         | that far fewer of them are being sold because people aren't
         | buying physical disks anymore? I.e. they've turned into a niche
         | luxury item.
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | It really is a revelation to watch an older movie on UHD Blu-
         | ray after being subjected to the mush that streaming services
         | put up.
         | 
         | Services like Apple TV+ do pretty well on 4K when it's their
         | own flagship content, but none of them care about movies that
         | were shot before digital. They'll serve a terrible automatic
         | encoding that loses all the detail from the original film.
         | 
         | I just bought Lynch's "Lost Highway" on UHD Blu-ray from the
         | Criterion Collection, and this 1997 movie has probably never
         | looked this good in any format. Even the original film prints
         | shown in theatres were second-generation compared to this 4K.
         | It's mastered from the negative and perfectly encoded to
         | preserve the massive film grain in the indoor scenes.
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | Honestly I'd take a 1080 Blu-ray over a 4K stream in most
         | instances. It's not universal, but streaming services are often
         | incredibly stingy with the bitrate. Mr Robot on Amazon Prime
         | was like watching a watercolour painting in dark scenes.
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | Even 4-6GB h.265 1080p pirated rips are usually better-
           | looking than streaming "4K", let alone how much better an
           | actual 1080p blu ray looks. Especially netflix, god their
           | streams look like dogshit.
        
         | iso1631 wrote:
         | > nothing beats Blu-ray UHD disks
         | 
         | Uncompressed 10 bit YUV444 UHD at 3840x2160 and 60fps runs at
         | 15gbit a second, so you aren't getting a complete compression
         | artifact free viewing experience. The largest UHD blueray will
         | only deliver at 1% of that speed, and if you could cache it
         | you'd get less than a minute's worth on the disk.
         | 
         | Now you might think that the compression you choose is
         | suitable, and perhaps you'd be right, but it's not 100%
         | compression artifact free, and realistically you aren't going
         | to be seeing uncompressed UHD outside of a broadcast facility.
         | When I stream UHD from say a music festival, I'm compressing it
         | for the WAN section to around 120mbits of h265 at 2160p50
         | (europe). Even with that level of compression (15:1) it's
         | likely better than your UHD disk.
        
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