[HN Gopher] KDE runs on the Apple M2 with full GPU acceleration
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KDE runs on the Apple M2 with full GPU acceleration
Author : c80e74f077
Score : 269 points
Date : 2022-11-25 17:18 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (vt.social)
(TXT) w3m dump (vt.social)
| yes_but_no wrote:
| Some ppl have been saying reason macs doesn't support 4k 120hz
| using thunderbolt to hdmi 2.1 cables is a software limitation, I
| wonder if linux on macbook solves that
| alin23 wrote:
| Most often it's a hardware limitation because the
| cables/adapters use the MCDP2900 converter chip inside, even
| when they advertise HDMI2.1 support. That's the same chip
| inside the built-in HDMI port of the new MacBook Pro and its
| datasheet [0] says it only supports up to 60hz
|
| That chip is also the reason for a lot of support emails I'm
| getting on Lunar (https://lunar.fyi/) because it seems to break
| DDC/CI and hardware brightness control stops working through
| cables and ports that use it.
|
| [0]
| https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/MegaChips%20PDFs...
| sofixa wrote:
| Same with Macs not supporting display port daisy chaining over
| USB C (not Thunderbolt), it's purely a software limitation.
| [deleted]
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Question for those in the know: are there any substantial changes
| from M1 to M2? I'm sure lots of tuning took place, but is there
| any major component that was completely overhauled?
| MBCook wrote:
| Sort of a "spec bump+".
|
| The biggest change, IIRC, is that the M1 was based on the
| A12(?) but the M2 was based on the A14(?). So the CPU/GPU
| design was newer. They tweaked and improved other modules like
| the neural engine too.
|
| So it wasn't just clock speed, but to most end users it was
| just somewhat faster and more mature.
|
| Nothing special/amazing/transformative.
| dottedmag wrote:
| There was quite a bit of small annoying stuff, but nothing
| major.
|
| GPU and display controller were initially expected to have
| large amount of changes, but this turned out not to be the
| case.
|
| Amount of changes between M1->M1Pro/Max/Ultra and
| M1Pro/Max/Ultra->M2 is similar.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| No.
| hedgehog wrote:
| I've been reading bits and pieces from the people doing Linux
| for Apple SoCs for a while and it sounds like the evolution has
| been mostly incremental going way back (like A7 era).
| ultrarunner wrote:
| Another question for those in the know: there are what seem to
| be tons of weird GPU problems on macOS under M1-- weird cursor
| tails, choppy scrolling, and very occasional panics that derive
| from GPU drivers. Are there any workarounds for unstable GPU
| behavior that were discovered during the RE & driver
| implementation?
|
| Edit: I've directly observed these on my machine, and it
| doesn't look to be an isolated incident. There is a video in
| [2] below.
|
| [0] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253679057
|
| [1] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252777347
|
| [2]
| https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/u486mi/macbook_pro_1...
|
| [3]
| https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/oldbb9/mba_m1_cursor_g...
|
| [4]
| https://www.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/kfkuqi/is_there_...
|
| [5]
| https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/r037h2/is_this_amount_...
|
| [6] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-m1-mouse-
| curso...
| snoot wrote:
| > there are what seem to be tons of weird GPU problems on
| macOS under M1-- weird cursor tails, choppy scrolling, and
| very occasional panics that derive from GPU drivers.
|
| Never heard of these. Been using M1 for a year. I don't think
| it's worth taking seriously.
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Are you sure you're not using any displaylink cable/drivers?
|
| I had a choppy mouse at a certain point, but that was only
| with a bluetooth mouse. Bluetooth runs at a slower rate in
| any case, but I think it might have had to do with some
| interference.
| david_allison wrote:
| Agreed with other commenter: I'd disregard the reports. Been
| using an M1 for 6 months now on macOS. One kernel panic when
| closing the lid. Solid machine and no issues with the GPU.
| [deleted]
| nine_k wrote:
| It looks like your particular piece of hardware is defective.
| Try having it replaced.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| YMMV but on an MBP 16" M1 Pro driving its internal display
| alongside an Apple Thunderbolt Display (yes, the one they
| sold from 2011-2016) I've seen no graphical problems
| whatsoever in the past year.
| acchow wrote:
| Issue free for over a year on M1
| moondev wrote:
| Can anyone confirm if nested virtualization is available when
| running asahi on m1/m2 ?
| [deleted]
| my123 wrote:
| M1 doesn't have nested virt in hardware. M2 does but nested
| virt on arm64 isn't quite in upstream Linux yet.
| bogwog wrote:
| This is great news and a big win for consumers!
| sedeki wrote:
| (false statement about a buggy M1)
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| M1RACLES was a security flaw that was hyped as a _joke_ ,
| because it was such a weak bug, and yet it was hyped to
| oblivion. It totally does not deserve even a mention on the M1
| Wikipedia page.
|
| The flaw means that two malicious processes, _already on the
| system_ , can potentially communicate without the OS being
| aware. Even though they _already could_ through pipes, desktop
| icons, files, inter-process communication, screen grabbing each
| other, over the network, from a remote website, take your pick.
| Now, what are the odds of two malicious processes, being on a
| system, with a pre-agreed protocol for communication, going to
| need a weird processor bug to communicate over for? Absolutely
| nothing. It 's not supposed to happen - but it's basically
| useless when you are twice-pwned already.
|
| The other flaw that was found was that Pointer Authentication
| (PAC) could be defeated on the M1 with the PACMAN attack.
| However, PAC was actually an ARM standard added in ARMv8.4 that
| affects _all_ ARMv8.4 implementers - the M1 just happens to be
| the most notable chip with that ARM version. Versions before
| ARMv8.4 didn 't have PAC at all - so, even with that defeated,
| you aren't worse off than you were before ARMv8.4, so it's just
| a "sad, we tried, but oh well" thing from ARM's perspective.
| sedeki wrote:
| Thank you! I am learning something new every day.
| vletal wrote:
| Sad that iPads do have open bootloaders. Id be happy using my M1
| iPad Pro from time to time.
| umanwizard wrote:
| Asahi is getting closer and closer to "daily driver" usability at
| an amazing pace.
|
| Anyone have an idea how soon we should expect GPU support to be
| in mainline?
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| i'm using it as a daily driver for a couple months easily, but
| my daily driving happens to not require the not-quite-perfect
| device drivers. i shutdown for sleep, for instance, which works
| just fine, since boot and login is super fast and restores
| everything.
| nu11ptr wrote:
| Possibly stupid q: Why buy a mac if you are just going to run
| Linux on it? I suspect any comparable PC would be more
| economical (w/ exception of power draw).
| umanwizard wrote:
| There are a number of reasons.
|
| 1. I prefer Mac hardware to any PC hardware (I don't know
| any manufacturers who come close to apple in hardware
| quality, so I don't think the "comparable PC" you cite even
| exists in reality).
|
| 2. I prefer to use Linux, since I'm more familiar with it,
| I'm more likely to be able to debug it when things go wrong
| (macOS Just Works more reliably, but when it doesn't, I'm
| stuck), and also I work on software that runs in prod on
| Linux and I don't want to deal with Docker for Mac.
|
| 3. While this is not yet the case, I think it's likely that
| someday Asahi will run better and more reliably on macs
| than mainstream distros run on PC laptops. The reason is
| that they only have one target (or, I suppose, one very
| closely related family of targets) whereas there are a pile
| of different PC vendors that are all subtly broken in
| different ways. I've _never_ seen a high-end PC laptop run
| Linux without tons of bugs and weird quirks; to get a solid
| Linux laptop experience, you seem to need to eschew
| discrete graphics cards and use a system that's a few years
| old at minimum.
| sofixa wrote:
| The hardware is pretty good. Utterly unmaintainable,
| unserviceable and unapgradeable, extremely overpriced
| tiering (e.g. adding storage or RAM which you have to do at
| purchase time), with limited options (e.g. i cannot stand
| glossy screens with shitty reflections everywhere causing
| eye strain), but still very good. However the software
| (macOS) is pretty shit and IMO hard to adapt to coming from
| any other OS.
|
| Raw performance per watt, and per weight/dimensions is best
| in class. For pure performance (e.g. an Asus ROG Zephyrus)
| or lightness (e.g. LG Gram) there are better options, but
| if you want all three it's hard to beat.
|
| I personally think the hardware is so good, even with the
| caveats, but the software so bad that I'm honestly tempted
| to get an Air for portability or a Pro as a daily driver
| when Asahi Linux is good enough for me and the prices are
| right (so some sale or something, sticker prices are
| ridiculous if you max everything, and you kind of have to
| due to the impossibility of upgrades).
| musicale wrote:
| > extremely overpriced tiering (e.g. adding storage or
| RAM
|
| As I understand it, Apple uses a "system in a package"
| multi chip module that mounts RAM inside the same package
| as the main M1/M2 SoC.
|
| Seems to work well in terms of memory bandwidth, unified
| memory architecture, and physical size, but it's hard to
| crack that SIP/MCM open to add more RAM.
|
| And it's even harder to add RAM to an SoC die itself. And
| the GPU is integrated as well (although in theory one
| could connect an eGPU over Thunderbolt - assuming the
| driver issues could be sorted out somehow.)
|
| Some older Macs in the 1990s included an external L2
| cache SRAM slot. But cache RAM upgrades became impossible
| once the L2 cache was integrated on the CPU die.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Serviceability is improved (though still not amazing) in
| all the machines with chassises redesigned during the "M"
| era -- the "notched" MBP 14/16 and Air have easily
| accessible bottom screws (no need to remove rubber feet
| first) and don't have batteries glued in. Keyboards can
| be changed independently from the top case too. Notably,
| many Windows laptops fail on both of those counts (like
| the LG Gram which hides screws under adhesive-attached
| feet).
|
| But yes, it's difficult to find laptops as well-rounded
| as MacBooks are. Generally laptops will require you to
| make significant sacrifices in multiple categories to be
| good at one or two things, which is less true of MacBooks
| (particularly the 14"/16" Pro models), especially if you
| want good performance without the laptop being huge and
| bulky and/or have horrible battery life with constantly-
| screaming fans. The 14"/16" models get you performance in
| the ballpark of a desktop Ryzen 5800X while unplugged and
| still getting great battery life while also being silent
| and still reasonably portable, along with a killer
| screen, great speakers, decent keyboard and great
| trackpad.
| tambourine_man wrote:
| Macs, for me, are the software. This is something that
| became pretty evident during the Intel era. And I bought
| Macs exclusively when the hardware was both much slower
| and pricier than PCs (68k and PPC), because I loved the
| software so much.
|
| Funny to read such an opposite opinion.
|
| I don't mind the pretty casing, but it's icing on the
| cake.
| tambourine_man wrote:
| On a second thought, there where some transformative
| hardwares though.
|
| The iMac 5k for me, almost a decade later, is still
| better than anything other vendors have to offer. It's my
| childhood dream monitor. Such a shame that they never
| sold it separately.
|
| The M series laptops seem like an inflection point as
| well. A fanless powerhouse with more than a day's work of
| battery life and best in class monitor and trackpad.
| rsynnott wrote:
| > Such a shame that they never sold it separately.
|
| Well, they sold the controversial LG 5K, which was the
| same panel, but certainly not the same build quality.
| I've got one, and it's... fine, and for a very long time
| was literally the only 5K monitor you could buy, but for
| the price it is not a well-built piece of kit. (And the
| first two versions had weird bugs)
|
| They now (nearly a decade later) finally sell a fully
| first-party one, which is very similar.
| pram wrote:
| They do:
|
| https://www.apple.com/studio-display/specs/
| beebeepka wrote:
| I am with the other guy - great hardware, with the m1,
| married to a barely usable software. I hadn't been forced
| to used it in a decade, and imho, but hasn't gotten much
| better. At least it's got brew going for it.
|
| Horrible peripherals, too. I guess you love them for the
| same reasons I hate them.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| I'm personally a fan of macOS as well, but I can see the
| draw in wanting to run something else on them. I have a
| ThinkPad dual booting Windows and Fedora and it's not
| terrible as far as generic x86 laptops go, but in many
| ways it's not as nice as my work MacBook. If Linux ran as
| well on say a MacBook Air as it does on that ThinkPad,
| the ThinkPad would likely be replaced with an Air and any
| Windows needs being handled by a Windows VM or RDP
| session to my custom built tower.
| coutego wrote:
| I'm quite sure it's just a question of what you are used
| to. It is for me, anyway.
|
| My first PC (~year 2000) came with Windows but I wanted
| to use some software that only existed for Unix at the
| time and I was used to work in Unix anyway, so I heard
| about Linux and installed it. Great, I got an OS I was
| used to and the software I needed for my project.
|
| When finally I had to use Windows for work a couple of
| years later it took time to adapt and, even to this day,
| I just find it easier to use Linux. It's just a metter of
| what you are used to.
|
| Last year I bought a MacBook, because of the M1, and I
| can't get used to the "weirdness" of MacOS, specially the
| keyboard and the window management. Every other machine I
| use (Linux, Windows or ChromeOS) uses the same
| keybindings but in MacOS the same software I use
| everywhere else (e.g. Chrome) has been forced to change
| the standard keybindings to something else and and it's
| even not configurable. Programs just don't implement
| stuff as C-c to copy and C-v to paste. Programs link that
| functionality to S-c and S-v, instead. WTF? This means
| there is no remapping of the keyboard that can fix this,
| since the software itself is broken.
|
| For me, this makes the machine pretty unusable. I'm a
| keyboard guy and quite fast at it. But when I'm in MacOS
| I waste a lot of time finding the right keybindings even
| for switching Windows. Example: S-w to close a tab but
| C-TAB to switch tabs %~(
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| > Last year I bought a MacBook, because of the M1, and I
| can't get used to the "weirdness" of MacOS, specially the
| keyboard and the window management.
|
| For what it's worth, long time Mac users feel that *nix
| desktops and Windows have the same kind of "weirdness"
| you describe here. The majority of modern macOS
| conventions can be traced back to the original 1985 Mac
| or the 5-10 years following its introduction.
|
| I started on macOS but can switch between control schemes
| pretty fluidly these days, thanks to having regularly
| used all three major OSes for several years. That said I
| wish there were at least one Linux DE that cloned macOS
| conventions as faithfully as the rest have cloned Windows
| conventions (with the exception of GNOME, which is more
| like what you'd get if you turned iPadOS into a desktop
| OS with Windows keyboard shortcuts).
| ask_b123 wrote:
| Is S = command?
|
| What I'm seeing is: close a tab -> cmd+w; copy something
| -> cmd+c; switch tab -> cmd+option+left/right arrow,
| switch window -> cmd + `
| umanwizard wrote:
| Yes, coutego is using Emacs notation for key chords, in
| which S-whatever means what macOS users would call
| cmd+whatever, Windows users would call win+whatever, etc.
| "S" stands for "Super" key.
| sofixa wrote:
| Same thing with keyboard mapping, it really bothers me.
| However I've found that using a keylogger to remap
| (Karabiner) works decently with very few exceptions
| (iTerm).
| rsynnott wrote:
| I wonder if this response is because common Linux desktop
| environments are _so_ derivative of Windows these days. I
| started using MacOS around 2004 (the G4 iBook was
| _amazing_ in its day; if you wanted a Unix-y laptop with
| decent battery life, working power management and wifi,
| and vaguely affordable, it was the only game in town),
| having previously been using Linux since about 2001 and
| Windows before that. At that time, Linux desktop
| environments generally didn't use the same conventions as
| Windows anyway, so moving to MacOS wasn't that jarring.
| coldtea wrote:
| Power+performance, great battery life, great build quality,
| great hardware...
| coutego wrote:
| There are no comparable laptops to M[1,2] Macs, AFAIK.
| Linux on an M1 simply flies. It's just stupidly quick. A
| MacBook with Linux is the most amazing Linux machine that
| exists, even without the GPU acceleration.
|
| I bought my first MacBook just because of the M1 processor
| and /despite/ the OS, which is ok-ish but not my cup of
| tea. I'm looking forward to running Linux on it as my daily
| driver.
| emmo wrote:
| The Mac Mini is actually a pretty nice little unit, and not
| priced too terribly.
| dopeboy wrote:
| Two reasons: battery life + touchpad.
| callesgg wrote:
| Not that I would buy a new Mac and install linux on it...
|
| But if I did, it would be cause apple has unmatched
| hardware build quality. (But also the battery time would as
| you mention also be a nice thing)
| recuter wrote:
| I get 12+ hours of battery life on my M1 Air, no longer
| bother with cables and outlets at coffee shops.
|
| What else I could buy of similar
| weight/size/battery/quality?
|
| Even if knew of an alternative, there are other unexpected
| perks to going with Apple: travel constantly, occasionally
| selling my old one and switching to a new machine is easy
| whereas with other brands would be impossible. Amortized
| cost is less than $1/day.
|
| If this Asahi thing pans out (I'm guessing maybe in a year
| or two it won't use twice the battery) I'll immediately
| dual boot and spend the majority of my time in it. :)
| nextos wrote:
| This also happened when Macs transitioned to Intel and
| Core 2 Duo laptops were released. At the same price
| point, PCs were much noiser and had much poorer battery
| range.
|
| ARM laptops from other brands are starting to pop up but
| they will take at least a year to catch up in terms of
| performance.
|
| Right now, ThinkPad X13s runs Linux very decently, but
| it's less powerful than the M1.
|
| In the US market it might be cheaper than M1 Mac Airs. In
| Europe it's 50% more expensive and customer support is
| poor.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| Linux is more user friendly for some developers. Linux
| support with Asahi is also markedly better then any
| comparable PC. Hardware wise it beats all windows laptops.
|
| Essentially it comes down to that macs have great hardware
| but shitty software. The later which asahi fixes.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| not at all a silly question...
|
| it runs forever and _fast_, the ergonomics are kick ass for
| my body dimensions (i mean, it's comfortable), and it's
| _silent_.
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