[HN Gopher] Interview with Keith Blount, Creator of Scrivener
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       Interview with Keith Blount, Creator of Scrivener
        
       Author : cocacola1
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2022-11-26 20:09 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (syntopikon.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (syntopikon.substack.com)
        
       | CrypticShift wrote:
       | I used Scrivener more like a generic [Outliner + DB] combo than a
       | tool for long form writing.
       | 
       | IMO combining outlining and databases could be powerful if fully
       | exploited (research...).
       | 
       | I truly consider Keith Blount to be a "hero" in the sense that he
       | offered this power for all writers out there (at a reasonable
       | price.)
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | FYI, Other outliner+DB beasts include the " _overlooked for way
       | too long_ " Infoqube [0] and the " _probably soon to be a rising
       | star_ " Tana [1].
       | 
       | [0] https://www.infoqube.biz/
       | 
       | [1] https://tana.inc/
        
       | rcarr wrote:
       | I switched from Scrivener to a two app approach: Obsidian for all
       | of my own writing, DevonThink for all research materials. I love
       | having this distinction and find both my mind and workspaces feel
       | less cluttered as a result. I also like that all my writing is
       | completely portable. I can link between the two apps using either
       | app URLs or using Hookmark but I haven't used this much yet. If I
       | needed timelines for a particular project I'd buy a copy of Aeon.
       | I used to have a version on an old machine but it's since been
       | updated and I haven't worked on anything that needed it yet
       | although I imagine I will do at some point.
       | 
       | Should also add that I do have a soft spot and gratitude for
       | Scrivener as, coming from Word, it was the first software that I
       | used that allowed you to organise all your notes together in
       | folders and contained other cool tools for writers such as the
       | built in name generator (which I still use), the corkbord
       | organiser etc. Scapple (made by the same company) is also great
       | if you want to do some quick mind mapping and integrates really
       | well with Scrivener as you can import all the bubbles and get to
       | work fleshing them out.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I should take a look at DevonThink (and maybe Obsidian though
         | I'm mostly fine with Google Docs). I own Scrivener and have
         | used it. But I don't find it ideal for research materials and,
         | for the non-fiction writing I do, I don't find functional flow
         | all that complicated. And then I'm going to have to transfer it
         | to a different tool at some point anyway.
         | 
         | Scrivener seems like it's good at solving problems I mostly
         | don't feel I have.
        
           | rcarr wrote:
           | Once you get it set up how you want it, DevonThink absolutely
           | rocks and it's perfect for non-fiction research. It's got a
           | 100 hour free trial so worth testing it out. I'd recommend
           | downloading the manual and/or the Take Control Of DevonThink
           | book from the devontechnologies website (both free) and
           | giving both a speed read so you get an idea of some of the
           | stuff it can do.
           | 
           | Obviously depends on your own individual workflow but here
           | are some of my recommendations:
           | 
           | Make sure you get the iOS companion app DevonThink To Go.
           | This allows you to capture everything on your mobile devices.
           | Also make sure you install all add ons via DevonThink3 ->
           | Install Add Ons.
           | 
           | These add ons will:
           | 
           | - Allow you to view and import emails in DevonThink (you will
           | also have to enable the plugin in the Apple Mail app for this
           | functionality to work)
           | 
           | - Put an 'Inbox' folder in your finder which allows you to
           | just drag any file or folder into it and have it appear in
           | your DevonThink Inbox
           | 
           | - Give you OCR for all your pdfs
           | 
           | - Give you extensions for browsers to clip things easily.
           | 
           | When you clip something that you want to read or refer back
           | to you're generally best off using the 'paginated PDF'
           | setting as not all the available options support annotation
           | and the AI search. It's not a big deal if you don't because
           | you can just right click something and click 'Convert To' to
           | turn it into a pdf later.
           | 
           | Two settings I'd recommend trying out:
           | 
           | DevonThink3 -> Preferences -> General -> Interface -> Retain
           | View (On)
           | 
           | Stops the view from changing every time you switch databases
           | which can be annoying.
           | 
           | DevonThink3 -> Preferences -> General -> Interface -> Unify
           | Inboxes (Off)
           | 
           | Moves each databases inbox into the database itself which
           | makes it a lot easier for when you're filing things.
           | 
           | Four Shortcuts I Find Useful:
           | 
           | Cmd-Ctrl-M - brings up a panel for moving a file quickly
           | 
           | Cmd-7 for wide screen view (makes more sense than the
           | standard view)
           | 
           | Cmd-option-i - toggle right inspector
           | 
           | Cmd-option-1 - toggle left sidebar
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | I used Scrivener for a while. I switched to Vellum, which I like
       | much better.
       | 
       | What was the decider? I wanted to have "drop caps", that cool
       | feature where the first letter of a chapter is 3 or 4 lines big.
       | The forums for Scrivener suggested some very complicated ways to
       | do it involving CSS. In Vellum it's just one of the styles.
       | Silly, but it's my book and I wanted it.
       | 
       | Vellum also seems to know publishing conventions better (the
       | half-title page, the copyright page, About the Author, etc.) They
       | make your book not look so self-published.
       | 
       | I'm not trashing Scrivener, though. It's a good product.
        
         | jacques-noris wrote:
         | Strange comparison. Scrivener is for writing books, Vellum for
         | publishing, even if scrivener has a publish option. But they
         | rather complement each other. Scrivener is incredible value for
         | money.
        
           | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
           | I recently wasted three days trying to get Scrivener to do
           | something very basic - autonumber sections in a book without
           | including part numbers.
           | 
           | It should have been easy, but the autonumbering features
           | didn't work as advertised and I ended up with something that
           | is probably a hack that relies on some bugs.
           | 
           | It's good VFM, but considering its audience it's also one of
           | the most user-hostile pieces of software I've ever used. [1]
           | 
           | There's _far_ too much  "Yes it does that but it's not
           | designed for it so keep your expectations low" for comfort.
           | 
           | Either include features and make them professional, or don't
           | include them at all. I'd happily pay two or three times as
           | much for something that does all the things it sorta kinda
           | implies it does but you know actually not really.
           | 
           | Vellum does almost nothing in comparison except produce a
           | limited range of beautiful books. But perhaps that may be of
           | some interest to writers?
           | 
           | [1] TBF it's far better than Calibre. But that has the excuse
           | of being free.
        
             | AlbertCory wrote:
             | Kinda my feeling. But I won't trash Scrivener.
             | 
             | > Vellum does almost nothing in comparison except produce a
             | limited range of beautiful books.
             | 
             | Exactly. That's all I want. Hopefully a higher price means
             | they can live on that alone.
             | 
             | And they have fonts which not everyone in the world is
             | using. Maybe Scrivener does too; haven't checked.
             | 
             | But maybe _this_ will start a flame war: Guy Kawasaki
             | recommends Adobe InDesign. To hell with monthly fees, so
             | no.
        
           | AlbertCory wrote:
           | "writing books" vs. "publishing" ? Is that a sharp
           | distinction?
        
             | Rygian wrote:
             | It's usually done by different people with different job
             | descriptions.
             | 
             | A writer's output are manuscripts, works of art.
             | 
             | A publisher's output is a commercial offering of books, a
             | business.
             | 
             | [1] https://askanydifference.com/difference-between-author-
             | and-p...
        
               | MrVandemar wrote:
               | I agree, but the latter can _also_ be a work of art.
               | Typesetting is definitely something that can be done
               | right or wrong, and sometimes to a breathtakingly high
               | standard.
        
             | least wrote:
             | Scriveners tools are designed to help a person write like
             | keeping track of timelines, character sheets, and the like.
             | 
             | It sounds like the other product has tools for typesetting
             | and layout, which are tools for publishing your finished
             | work.
        
         | cocacola1 wrote:
         | I only tried the trial of Vellum but, from what I remember, it
         | was easy to use and beautiful to boot. Definitely a lot less
         | complicated than Scrivener (which, if your goal is to write a
         | book, is probably the way to go). It seems like a joy to work
         | in for the long haul.
         | 
         | The thing for me is price. Vellum is $200-250, Scrivener is $60
         | (I got it for ~$40 with NaNoWriMo discounts a few years ago, if
         | I recall correctly). Plus you can write screenplays in it,
         | which was another bonus. I have spent more time than I should
         | customizing it, but that ended up being part of the joy. I've
         | more than a million words in it so it's unlikely I'll switch,
         | but it's a joy to use.
        
           | AlbertCory wrote:
           | I actually think the higher price is an asset, not a
           | liability (unless you can't afford it, of course). It means
           | they have a business model that doesn't require a huge mass
           | market to survive, so they won't go broke or get acquired and
           | watered down by some big company.
        
             | cocacola1 wrote:
             | I'd agree with that. I certainly hope they're able to stay
             | in business - it seems as though Vellum takes care of
             | everything. About the only thing it can't do (I might be
             | wrong) is that it can't output to Word format? I'm the
             | process of publishing a book right now and they've
             | requested everything in Word.
             | 
             | Edit: Turns out that as of ~10 days ago, you can, in fact,
             | export to Word (https://blog.vellum.pub/) in Vellum.
        
               | AlbertCory wrote:
               | I just looked: you can export to RTF. So couldn't Word
               | import that?
        
               | cocacola1 wrote:
               | I was wrong. Just took a look at their blog and
               | apparently as of 3.4 (Nov. 16, 2022) you can export to
               | Word (https://blog.vellum.pub/). That's excellent.
        
           | rcarr wrote:
           | If you're interested in screenplays you might be interested
           | in the fountain file format. It's like markdown but for
           | screenplays. It allows you to write screenplays in any text
           | editor and I really like the simplicity of it keeps me
           | focussed on the task at hand. There's a very cool app created
           | by screenwriter John August (Big Fish, Charlie and The
           | Chocolate Factory) called Highlander2 on the Mac App Store
           | that is purpose built for it (technically it uses a custom
           | file format called highland but it's basically just a folder
           | with a fountain file inside it and a few other files for
           | editor settings, metadata and handling images if you have
           | any). There's also fountain extensions for VS Code, Sublime
           | Text, Obsidian and probably other editors out there I don't
           | know of.
           | 
           | Links:
           | 
           | https://fountain.io/
           | 
           | https://highland2.app/index.php
        
         | vore wrote:
         | I think Scrivener also has different goals: Vellum looks like
         | it's intended for publishing, but Scrivener I think of more as
         | an organizational tool. That said, I've been using Dabble if
         | only because it's all cloud-based and I don't have to worry
         | about syncing files around myself.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | dinkleberg wrote:
         | Vellum looks excellent, thanks for mentioning it.
        
       | thenerdhead wrote:
       | Scrivener is amazing on macOS.
       | 
       | I tried doing the cross-platform writing story with the new
       | versions on Windows and mobile apps, but it just has too many
       | issues of syncing and random formatting bugs across the OS.
       | 
       | I absolutely love the mac experience though and it has helped me
       | author two books in less than two years. I've tried markdown
       | generators and traditional word, but Scrivener just feels right.
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-26 23:00 UTC)