[HN Gopher] It's Time to Reaffirm Our First Amendment Right to B...
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       It's Time to Reaffirm Our First Amendment Right to Boycott
        
       Author : Something1234
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2022-11-26 21:45 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.aclu.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.aclu.org)
        
       | nxm wrote:
       | I've lost all respect for ACLU. In 2014 they were warning against
       | forced vaccinations, and then during Covid they changed their
       | mind and were all for firing public and private employees if they
       | refused the jab. They're just an extension of the left's ideology
       | at this point.
        
       | jl6 wrote:
       | Is it normal for a government contract to mandate that the
       | contractor does or does not profess a specific political opinion?
       | This feels very not normal.
        
       | mkoubaa wrote:
       | I bring this particular issue up anytime I hear that cancel
       | culture was a contribution of the political left.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | Boycotting is not cancel culture, IMO. It's one thing to vote
         | with your wallet, or vocally protest against a company. It's
         | another thing entirely to go after someone _personally_ and
         | attempt to ruin their life for something they 've done to
         | offend you. I suspect that's the problem most people are
         | thinking of when they use the term 'cancel culture.' Like
         | Justine Sacco. Totally horrid leveraging of the power of the
         | Internet to destroy an individual.
        
           | upbeat_general wrote:
           | I've very often heard cancel culture used to refer to
           | "cancelling" of companies so I'm not sure I agree with that
           | statement.
           | 
           | Also the line can be blurry with celebrities since they will
           | engage in business deals.
        
       | tetrep wrote:
       | > The court of appeals reasoned that because one can't know the
       | meaning of a decision not to purchase from a business unless it
       | is accompanied by speech, the boycott itself is not protected,
       | and the state is free to single out and penalize the boycotts it
       | disfavors.
       | 
       | Wow. Using the same logic as that ruling, donating to politicians
       | is not protected by the 1st Amendment unless you also include a
       | memo making clear your intent...
       | 
       | This feels like more "I'll know it when I see it" but with intent
       | instead of porn.
        
         | User23 wrote:
         | The logic is very simple. You just can't boycott Israel.
         | 
         | Edit: And you can't post about how you can't boycott Israel
         | either.
        
           | erik_seaberg wrote:
           | To steelman the other side, you can't work for the US
           | government while antagonizing a formal ally of the US
           | government.
        
       | pie_flavor wrote:
       | It is genuinely offensive to hear them comparing the Alabama bus
       | boycotts to companies receiving government contracts. They know
       | perfectly well that an individual right to boycott has never been
       | in danger; they're just rattling the collection plate.
        
       | version_five wrote:
       | This is much more subtle than the article makes it out to be. I
       | don't think I understand it well enough to have a clear position,
       | but here is what comes to mind:
       | 
       | They are asking that companies affirm they won't boycott Isreal
       | (this is almost certainly why the ACLU cares, but anyway) _in
       | exchange for government contracts_.
       | 
       | Does anybody know how the constitution applies in such
       | situations? What comes to mind is the drug testing requirement
       | for federal contracts. Police can't just come up and randomly
       | drug test you, but you can agree to it in exchange for money. Why
       | is this different? It feels like there are lots of business
       | situations where you essentially give up a right as part of a
       | contract.
       | 
       | I understand why the newspaper doesn't sign, I probably wouldn't
       | either. But then I wouldn't expect to get the money.
        
         | oytis wrote:
         | If it was a requirement from a private contractor that would
         | probably be fine (and could be an exercise of the First
         | Amendment by itself). But with government contracts it looks
         | like the amendment should be applied here.
        
           | chadash wrote:
           | Say that a company is called The White Power Group and is
           | known to spew what most would consider hate speech. They bid
           | to provide government offices with toilet paper. Should the
           | government be allowed to turn them down?
        
       | connicpu wrote:
       | I still cannot wrap my head around the idea of making a boycott
       | illegal. If it's not accompanied by speech, what is the
       | difference between someone who actively avoids a product or one
       | who simply would not have purchased it in the first place? How
       | can that possibly be enforced? If I sign that form and then
       | happen to not buy any of the products I'm not supposed to
       | boycott, have I violated the contract?
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | It's not illegal, but it does disqualify you from getting a
         | federal government business contract. I think this is more of a
         | gray area than advocates would like to make you believe.
         | 
         | Whatever you might feel about Israel, you can't deny the fact
         | that they are a strategically valuable geopolitical ally, and
         | it's not unreasonable for the federal government to avoid doing
         | businesses with companies that are actively and publicly
         | boycotting a strategic ally.
        
         | luckylion wrote:
         | If it's not announced, if your intentions are not known, is it
         | a boycott? I'd say no, because you're not boycotting Store A if
         | you're shopping at Store B for some reason other than your hate
         | of Store A for store-unrelated reasons (e.g. the political
         | stance of the store owner, or the color of their skin).
        
         | bb88 wrote:
         | The original American colonists boycotted the tea from England.
         | Under the appeals court ruling, things like boycotting twitter
         | would be illegal.
        
       | CoastalCoder wrote:
       | I wasn't aware of this issue, and as framed by the ACLU it's
       | pretty alarming.
       | 
       | That said, experience tells me to _always_ get both sides of a
       | story. Can anyone suggest a good representation of the other
       | sides ' position?
        
       | rootusrootus wrote:
       | Interesting, I had no idea that this was a thing. I think it is
       | perfectly sensible to prohibit employees from using their
       | personal conscience to boycott with company (or government)
       | funds, as it isn't their own money. But prohibiting them
       | personally? That should be protected absolutely. And companies
       | should be permitted to boycott as well, when the decision is
       | actually a company decision and not just a rando employee.
        
         | enkid wrote:
         | I could understand the US government not allowing certain
         | companies to boycott foreign governments, as you start getting
         | companies affecting foreign policy, which isn't a great
         | position to be in. To me, this should be limited to limits the
         | federal government can place on business conducted specifically
         | for the federal government, and shouldn't extend to individuals
         | working for that company. For example, they should be able to
         | specify that a national security company has to be willing to
         | purchase parts from a specific foreign country for the business
         | it does with the federal government. I feel like anything other
         | than that should be protected speech.
        
       | gladiatr72 wrote:
       | https://youtu.be/x0Lc5b8Flto
       | 
       | Heh. Hehe. Yeah. The parasites that took over have lost their
       | minds at last. Its support for actual civil liberties has been
       | provisional for years and now asks (specifically) for funds in
       | the name of the first amendment... I mean, damn...
        
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       (page generated 2022-11-26 23:00 UTC)