[HN Gopher] It's Time to Reaffirm Our First Amendment Right to B... ___________________________________________________________________ It's Time to Reaffirm Our First Amendment Right to Boycott Author : Something1234 Score : 54 points Date : 2022-11-26 21:45 UTC (1 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.aclu.org) (TXT) w3m dump (www.aclu.org) | nxm wrote: | I've lost all respect for ACLU. In 2014 they were warning against | forced vaccinations, and then during Covid they changed their | mind and were all for firing public and private employees if they | refused the jab. They're just an extension of the left's ideology | at this point. | jl6 wrote: | Is it normal for a government contract to mandate that the | contractor does or does not profess a specific political opinion? | This feels very not normal. | mkoubaa wrote: | I bring this particular issue up anytime I hear that cancel | culture was a contribution of the political left. | rootusrootus wrote: | Boycotting is not cancel culture, IMO. It's one thing to vote | with your wallet, or vocally protest against a company. It's | another thing entirely to go after someone _personally_ and | attempt to ruin their life for something they 've done to | offend you. I suspect that's the problem most people are | thinking of when they use the term 'cancel culture.' Like | Justine Sacco. Totally horrid leveraging of the power of the | Internet to destroy an individual. | upbeat_general wrote: | I've very often heard cancel culture used to refer to | "cancelling" of companies so I'm not sure I agree with that | statement. | | Also the line can be blurry with celebrities since they will | engage in business deals. | tetrep wrote: | > The court of appeals reasoned that because one can't know the | meaning of a decision not to purchase from a business unless it | is accompanied by speech, the boycott itself is not protected, | and the state is free to single out and penalize the boycotts it | disfavors. | | Wow. Using the same logic as that ruling, donating to politicians | is not protected by the 1st Amendment unless you also include a | memo making clear your intent... | | This feels like more "I'll know it when I see it" but with intent | instead of porn. | User23 wrote: | The logic is very simple. You just can't boycott Israel. | | Edit: And you can't post about how you can't boycott Israel | either. | erik_seaberg wrote: | To steelman the other side, you can't work for the US | government while antagonizing a formal ally of the US | government. | pie_flavor wrote: | It is genuinely offensive to hear them comparing the Alabama bus | boycotts to companies receiving government contracts. They know | perfectly well that an individual right to boycott has never been | in danger; they're just rattling the collection plate. | version_five wrote: | This is much more subtle than the article makes it out to be. I | don't think I understand it well enough to have a clear position, | but here is what comes to mind: | | They are asking that companies affirm they won't boycott Isreal | (this is almost certainly why the ACLU cares, but anyway) _in | exchange for government contracts_. | | Does anybody know how the constitution applies in such | situations? What comes to mind is the drug testing requirement | for federal contracts. Police can't just come up and randomly | drug test you, but you can agree to it in exchange for money. Why | is this different? It feels like there are lots of business | situations where you essentially give up a right as part of a | contract. | | I understand why the newspaper doesn't sign, I probably wouldn't | either. But then I wouldn't expect to get the money. | oytis wrote: | If it was a requirement from a private contractor that would | probably be fine (and could be an exercise of the First | Amendment by itself). But with government contracts it looks | like the amendment should be applied here. | chadash wrote: | Say that a company is called The White Power Group and is | known to spew what most would consider hate speech. They bid | to provide government offices with toilet paper. Should the | government be allowed to turn them down? | connicpu wrote: | I still cannot wrap my head around the idea of making a boycott | illegal. If it's not accompanied by speech, what is the | difference between someone who actively avoids a product or one | who simply would not have purchased it in the first place? How | can that possibly be enforced? If I sign that form and then | happen to not buy any of the products I'm not supposed to | boycott, have I violated the contract? | nerdponx wrote: | It's not illegal, but it does disqualify you from getting a | federal government business contract. I think this is more of a | gray area than advocates would like to make you believe. | | Whatever you might feel about Israel, you can't deny the fact | that they are a strategically valuable geopolitical ally, and | it's not unreasonable for the federal government to avoid doing | businesses with companies that are actively and publicly | boycotting a strategic ally. | luckylion wrote: | If it's not announced, if your intentions are not known, is it | a boycott? I'd say no, because you're not boycotting Store A if | you're shopping at Store B for some reason other than your hate | of Store A for store-unrelated reasons (e.g. the political | stance of the store owner, or the color of their skin). | bb88 wrote: | The original American colonists boycotted the tea from England. | Under the appeals court ruling, things like boycotting twitter | would be illegal. | CoastalCoder wrote: | I wasn't aware of this issue, and as framed by the ACLU it's | pretty alarming. | | That said, experience tells me to _always_ get both sides of a | story. Can anyone suggest a good representation of the other | sides ' position? | rootusrootus wrote: | Interesting, I had no idea that this was a thing. I think it is | perfectly sensible to prohibit employees from using their | personal conscience to boycott with company (or government) | funds, as it isn't their own money. But prohibiting them | personally? That should be protected absolutely. And companies | should be permitted to boycott as well, when the decision is | actually a company decision and not just a rando employee. | enkid wrote: | I could understand the US government not allowing certain | companies to boycott foreign governments, as you start getting | companies affecting foreign policy, which isn't a great | position to be in. To me, this should be limited to limits the | federal government can place on business conducted specifically | for the federal government, and shouldn't extend to individuals | working for that company. For example, they should be able to | specify that a national security company has to be willing to | purchase parts from a specific foreign country for the business | it does with the federal government. I feel like anything other | than that should be protected speech. | gladiatr72 wrote: | https://youtu.be/x0Lc5b8Flto | | Heh. Hehe. Yeah. The parasites that took over have lost their | minds at last. Its support for actual civil liberties has been | provisional for years and now asks (specifically) for funds in | the name of the first amendment... I mean, damn... ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-11-26 23:00 UTC)