[HN Gopher] Front end developers: stop moving things that I'm ab... ___________________________________________________________________ Front end developers: stop moving things that I'm about to click on Author : ingve Score : 458 points Date : 2022-11-27 18:47 UTC (10 hours ago) (HTM) web link (medium.com) (TXT) w3m dump (medium.com) | verelo wrote: | Couldn't agree more with this. Search results that auto complete | but pull from two sources that get unioned in the UI are my major | gripe. Initial return is great, i go to click but then boom the | second dataset comes in and i click the wrong click by accident. | | Drives me insane. | bobthegrower wrote: | You mean product managers. UI devs just implement what we are | told to implement. The notion that we have a say in UX is | laughable | FridgeSeal wrote: | And until devs stop enabling them, it'll continue happening. | | "Just doing what we're told" isn't an excuse, and doesn't | obviate you of responsibility in perpetuating it. | | "They'll just get someone else to do it", but if we | collectively put our feet down about not implementing dark- | patterns, that threat can no longer hold water, and we all have | a bit less user-hostile software in the world. | oraphalous wrote: | Aww bless - OP thinks FE devs get to choose what they implement. | cloudking wrote: | Twitter does this too on the algorithm timeline, open the mobile | app, try to tap a tweet and it gets replaced after network | update. | pulvinar wrote: | This is also a problem with seemingly stationary UIs, where a | button is only shown when the pointer gets close to it. | Especially when that button is within a clickable area, such as a | thumbnail image. | | The ideal solution to all of these would be for the UI to keep | track of drawing events and disable any click that occurs in | proximity to a just-redrawn area, and beep instead. | ptx wrote: | The recently redesigned Gmail UI is a good example of this: | Chats now show up as minimized icons, and moving the mouse | pointer over the icon to click it causes a close button to | materialize under the pointer. | throwaway81523 wrote: | This. Some of us still remember Punch the Monkey. | Eleison23 wrote: | Here's the problem: developers cut their teeth on twitch video | games and so they have no compunction about forcing users to play | a video game at every app and every web page we encounter. | | It's funny, I frequent a government-owned website for people with | disabilities and receiving public benefits, and one of their UI | elements is a marquee message "You have a message!" which scrolls | from right to left. If you are deft enough to click on it, you | will discover that your password expires soon! (Your password | always expires soon) That is actually not the important message | section of the site but the system notifications that don't tell | you anything about your benefits status or applications. It's a | laugh riot every time I see one of those message marquees. I've | quit clicking on them because I've figured out they are worse | than meaningless. | neeh0 wrote: | Why developers? In most cases I know this is responsibility of | product people who explicitly want that. | saberworks wrote: | Apple maps enrages me for doing this. When you first open the app | it like shows a screenshot of what you were looking at last time | while it loads. Sometimes that screenshot is retained as the | active view (for example if I have a search up), but other times | after a couple of seconds the whole app just resets. This causes | me to hit the "dictation" button quite often instead of the X | button that was on screen when I start tapping (X button to close | previous search result is replaced with a view reset and now the | dictation button is under my thumb). | | A screenshot of the app shouldn't be a loading screen!! It seems | to depend on how long it's been since the app was last opened | and/or how the internet connection is at the time. Bank apps show | a proper loading screen. | techsupporter wrote: | > Apple maps enrages me for doing this. When you first open the | app it like shows a screenshot of what you were looking at last | time while it loads. | | This has started to really irritate me since it feels like | _every_ application in Apple 's mobile ecosystem does this. My | device has SIX GIGABYTES OF MEMORY[0]. Why do you need to swap | everything out of RAM almost instantaneously? | | What grinds my gears the most is that state isn't preserved. | Apple Maps and Music are the absolute worst for this. Music | will show the same screenshot and then just unceremoniously | dump me to the "Listen Now" or "Browse" screen (it seems random | which) and completely disregard whatever playlist or album I | was in. The last song I played and track position are kept but | good damn luck getting back to the spot I was in--particularly | which playlist--before the app got put on ice. | | That screenshot is just a point of "hahaha nope" frustration. | | 0 - Yes, I mean actual Random Access Memory, not "storage | capacity." | zinckiwi wrote: | I don't know how they did it -- probably a highly sophisticated | combination of machine learning and focus groups -- but YouTube | will reliably dismiss the video controls brought up by a tap | pricely 60ms before I reach the moment in the video that I wanted | to pause on. | s-xyz wrote: | Hear hear. I am always amazed by this. Often linked to Cookies | popups as well. | smitty1e wrote: | How many times have I tapped the lower-left icon in Android and | then have the recently-used apps shuffle themselves ahead of | opening the desired app? | | Copious times. | nathias wrote: | that's more a concern for UX designers, where the chief value | should be consistency | [deleted] | jdswain wrote: | You know what would help with this, if the click rectangle | updates were delayed, maybe by 1 second, after the UI updates. | Then if you were already aiming for a button when it moves, you'd | still tap it. | joezydeco wrote: | And stop asking me to do a survey on your website when I've only | been there for 5 seconds. | smeej wrote: | Or sign up for your email list. | | I don't know if I want to hear from you ever again yet! | bee_rider wrote: | Would you like to subscribe to this substack before you | finish reading literally the first article you've ever seen | by this author? | dpkirchner wrote: | What if we made the subscribe nag appear on screen at 8fps, | would that entice you further? | pmontra wrote: | It's not only buttons, sometimes the whole UI moves. Many mobile | websites use sticky headers and footers that stick or unstick, | appear or hide according to the position of the users in the | document, how long since they touched the screen, scrolled, etc. | I either switch to reader mode or savagely use uBO's element | picker to select and permanently hide those elements. At the end | of the treatment either the header displays only when I scroll to | the top and the footer when I scroll to the end or they never | display. I really don't care because what I want to read is the | content in between. | Cameri wrote: | ProtonMail does this a lot on mobile. It's so infuriating. | yieldcrv wrote: | Instagram's search screen is the worst for this | | You start typing and at first it shows you best matched accounts | - things you recently visited or you follow - and _then_ it loads | in search suggestions on top of them, pushing the whole layout | down | | when in reality you already saw the thing you were going to click | on and now you misclicked on one of the suggestions | etothet wrote: | The current version of the Amazon Prime Video app (and maybe also | the HBO Max app?) on Apple TV has one of the worst examples of | this I've ever experienced. In their featured listings, they | should cards of shows/movies in what is basically a portrait | view. When one of the cards becomes active, after a second or two | it becomes wider and its content and background image changes and | the cards to its right are pushed out further to the right. So as | you're looking at a card and you begin to read it, its entire | contents is modified! It's so maddening. | bombcar wrote: | I HATE all the video apps I use - the one that drives me up the | wall the most is that I _know_ they have a horizontal UI - I | can see it on my TV - but on the phone you HAVE to browse in | vertical, and play videos in horizontal. | | WHYYYYYYYYY | kevmo314 wrote: | The one that aggravated me the most was https://cloud.google.com/ | | The "Console" button on the top right shifts just at the right | point in time for me to see it but miss clicking it. | | I trained myself to start typing con to autocomplete | console.cloud.google.com instead. | wizofaus wrote: | I always assumed it was done deliberately to trick users into | clicking on ads... | AdvancedSimian wrote: | It happens so often that I, too, assume it is done for | precisely the same reason. | vlad wrote: | A commercial app is just a blend of software bugs that | encourages profitability (not too many bugs, not too few). | 29athrowaway wrote: | The gold standard for the web should be: Craigslist | | Fast, functional, responsive. | Oxidation wrote: | Or McMaster Carr. RS, with it's laggy backend (I assume, as | their recent UI shinification didn't change it: it was bad | before) could learn a lot from them. | | Then again, McMaster Carr want you to use an app on mobile and | the new RS site works on mobile quite well, with the lag more | hidden by the inefficiencies of mobile browsing in general. | rjbwork wrote: | McMaster Carr is one of the greatest websites there is. It's | incredibly easy to find just about any kind of hardware. | Oxidation wrote: | One of the greatest features: when you download a 3D model | file, you get the file, not a zip file containing the | (single) file. | 29athrowaway wrote: | Ah, yes. Another classic. | ianai wrote: | And as far as we know no tracking/propping up anything for | attention regardless of ramifications. | 29athrowaway wrote: | I meant in terms of how the frontend is constructed. | hnick wrote: | whirlpool.net.au is so fast here in AU sometimes I refresh and | I'm not sure it did anything. | ilrwbwrkhv wrote: | I agree. This is the greatest sin of the modern web development | sphere. So so irritating. | fleddr wrote: | All the examples are a case of unfortunate timing: asynchronous | things doing late UI replacement that happen to conflict with the | time window in which you click. | | That's amateur stuff. Our car does this intentionally. As your | finger is in mid-air, on its way to hit something on the touch | screen, it's detecting this motion and then shows a context bar | in the top and bottom by the time you land your finger. Which | often overlays whatever you were going to touch. | | It's so comically bad that I think a team of engineers is | laughing back at the factory: "look! he's trying to touch | something again!". | | The other prank they included is traffic alerts. You're sitting | in a traffic jam for 10 minutes already and then my music stops, | only to hear: slow traffic ahead. | WaxProlix wrote: | Some phones are great at this - if you're on a call and want to | look up your account number to give to a service rep, getting | close enough to tap an app button turns off your screen, even | in speakerphone mode. Pull back your hand to tap the power | button to turn on the screen? Well the screen detected your | finger left and turned on just as you were hitting it. Now | you're in a third state, intentionally off screen, and just | moving your finger around the sensors won't change that. You | have to tap the same power button again, and then start the | process all over. | | Don't forget you've been talking to a service rep this whole | time, or more likely sitting going "uhhhhhhmmm..." like a | dipshit. | Normille wrote: | Way back when I first started learning to build web pages [when | HTML4 was just a glint in Tim Berners-Lees eye], it was conidered | bad form not to prvide a 'width' and 'height' attribute for an | image you were placing on the page. | | Because if you provided these, the browser would know how much | space to leave for the image to occupy after it had downloaded | [this was back in the dial-up modem days. So images usually | loaded gradually after the rest of the page] and so the layout of | the page would not change. Conversely, if you didn't provide | 'width' and 'height' attributes, the browser would only leave a | default small icon sized space for the image and then you'd have | the page content move and shuffle about as each image downloaded | and the rest of the page content got elbowed out of the way, to | accommodate it. | | It's funny how such basic concepts of usability seem to have | fallen by the wayside in our new modern Web3 [or whatever version | buzzword we're on now] in favour of moving content, modal | overlays and the like. And, since so many sites these days just | aggregate content from countless other external sources, even | that basic notion of pre-defining your image sizes is often | neglected too. | xeonmc wrote: | Every time I'm reminded of this: | | https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/333/130/835... | at-fates-hands wrote: | One of my first jobs as a front-end dev, I was told repeatedly | if you released a site and had forgotten to put height, width | on images, it was seen as a defect and would affect your year | end metrics. | | By my second or third job, nobody seemed to care about it and | when I brought it up, it was brushed aside as a "browser issue" | and not something we devs needed to worry about. | | You make a great point, and something I'm seeing a lot more of | now that I'm in accessibility. | deckard1 wrote: | > basic concepts of usability seem to have fallen by the | wayside | | Sadly, the tech may have changed but both our ideas on | usability and the incentives at play have remained the same. | Which is to say, the devs I know of all know that popup videos, | banners, modals, etc. are all trash much like the popup ad | banners of 1997. But we do them anyway because the people that | pay us have financial incentives that have been proven via | misguided A/B testing that they work. And by misguided I | mean... we're talking about manipulation, right? That's the | whole shell game of A/B testing. You're testing your way to | what works best for _you_ and not your _users_. It 's Tinder | knowing the perfect match for you but not showing you that | person because you'll quit the app if you ever met them. | | I can't even take a11y or people that advocate a11y seriously | today. You built modals and carousels with frustrating timeouts | that slide content before I'm done looking at it! You're a | circus clown. | nkrisc wrote: | > That's the whole shell game of A/B testing. You're testing | your way to what works best for you and not your users. | | A/B testing is a tool. Any tool can be misused. | FridgeSeal wrote: | On one hand: If a tool is being constantly and egregiously | misused at large scale, might it not be reasonable to | assign a degree of blame to the tool (e.g. tool has a "pit | of success" that encourages/permits misuse. | | On the other hand: marketing and execs could misuse and | abuse an empty room if they do desired, so I wonder why we | bother giving them tools in the first place. | nkrisc wrote: | > If a tool is being constantly and egregiously misused | at large scale | | That's quite the claim. | chiph wrote: | I would suggest that the enormous size of today's pages have | taken us back to the behavior seen in the dial-up days. | | Then: Page was slow because the delivery was via a 56k analog | modem. | | Today: Page is slow because the average page size is 2.2mb. | Plus JavaScript parsing + execution time. Plus asynchronous | calls to go load more stuff. Plus time to re-layout around | the new stuff. | at-fates-hands wrote: | Anecdotal evidence to support what you're saying. | | I work for a large health care company. They got on the JS | bandwagon a while ago. We used to have huge sites that | loaded fairly quickly (under 2 seconds) and cleanly. Now? | The last two years doing accessibility work - a lot of | these same sites which have been converted to Angular or | React? They're taking in excess of 15-20+ seconds to load. | nicoburns wrote: | 15-20+ seconds!!! What on earth are they doing to make it | take that long? The React app at my last job was taking | 2-4 seconds to load I joined the company (which I | considered incredibly slow) and I had it at under a | second by the time I left. | nicoburns wrote: | > Page is slow because the average page size is 2.2mb. Plus | JavaScript parsing + execution time. Plus asynchronous | calls to go load more stuff. Plus time to re-layout around | the new stuff. | | I think it's mostly blocking chains of multiple networks | requests that execute in sequence (taking a network round- | trip each time). I inherited a slow ~2mb frontend app at | work, which seemed horrendously bloated to me. It turned | out to be not that easy to reduce to the size (due to large | amounts of code depending on large libraries), but it also | turned out to be possible to make it load fast without | reducing the payload size. | frereubu wrote: | This - "Cumulative Layout Shift" - is part of Google's Core Web | Vitals - | https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/9205520?hl=en - so | if people are doing that, they're going to be penalised by | Google. (Although probably only a bit, given the number of | other factors that go into search rankings). | Beldin wrote: | Meuh - google does this with youtube. Load video: video | centered. Oh there's a side bar, let's shift the video. Oh | the contents needs a smaller dimension, let's shift again. | Rather annoying if you're used to watching videos at more | than default speed - the control for that shifts 2-3 times. | solardev wrote: | I don't think Google's other products have to play by the | same rules. | Eleison23 wrote: | A great one lately is Wikipedia's new search with suggestions. If | I'm typing in the search bar, I may type a complete query and | then press "Enter". Well, if my mouse happened to be hovering | over a suggestion, then "Enter" will choose that suggestion | instead of completing my chosen query instead. | TheAceOfHearts wrote: | Related to this, here's a pet peeves of mine. When YouTube is | buffering a video, it shows a spinner and you can't press play or | pause. Usually if something is buffering a lot I'm in a place | with spotty internet, so I'd like to pause until I'm somewhere | with better Internet. If I say pause, you should not continue | playing the video under any condition. I have made my intent | clear. | thewebcount wrote: | Oh man, so many video-related websites do this shit. It's even | worse in some cases where if you hit pause, then drag the | playhead back to the beginning (say because you want to wait | and show the whole thing to someone), it starts playing again | as soon as you let up on the playhead. Like, I want to pause, | put the playhead somewhere and still be paused. Is that so | fucking hard to understand? | aendruk wrote: | Reminds me of my Dell monitor. Years old muscle memory is: | 1. Unplug laptop from monitor 2. Power off monitor | | but step one triggers some automatic input detection mode for | about 10 seconds during which the monitor _ignores its power | button_. | userbinator wrote: | I have my monitors set to always use the same input, but the | reponsiveness of the buttons/OSD on some of the newer | monitors is noticeably laggy for some reason. At least 100ms | if not more between pressing a button and seeing the | response. Ironically, I also have some Samsung LCD monitors | from around 2 decades ago (they still work, but are rather | small) where the OSD response is instantaneous. | colanderman wrote: | Similarly, my car (Subaru) won't let me turn off the radio | for 10 seconds when I start it because it needs to display | some ridiculous warning. | wtallis wrote: | My Samsung monitor has the same kind of problem. It's often | quicker to hold down the button for several seconds and force | a shutdown of the monitor, than to wait for the monitor to | recover enough to be able to display the menu that has the | power-off entry. | [deleted] | bee_rider wrote: | That's so annoying. I'd be tempted to get a power strip or | smart plug and so I could revert to: unplug laptop, cut power | to device. | | Actually -- they make those "green" plugs, where power is cut | from the majority of the plugs if none if flowing through the | control plug. Maybe check those out. | pull_my_finger wrote: | Honestly, everyone knows this. If you're creating sites that do | this in 202X you're just being willfully ignorant/lazy. There are | plenty of component libraries for rendering placeholder | components in the popular frameworks, react has the suspense API | etc etc for exactly problems like this. | layer8 wrote: | Still delay-inserted content like the Wikipedia donation | banners are a regular occurrence. | Tiddles-the2nd wrote: | When it comes to ad links I've always wondered if it's | ignorance or done deliberately to make you click on the ad. | frereubu wrote: | It could well be naive A/B testing. "Oh, this configuration | has really increased our click-through rates", not realising | that it's because people are trying to click on something, | and an ad jumps into the space that they're just about to | click. | keltex wrote: | It also has to do with the ad networks. For example with | Google adsense, they really encourage you to use responsive | ads: | | "You can use responsive ads to provide a great user | experience on your pages. They look good on desktop, tablet, | and mobile devices. " | | But when you use a responsive ad, google can dynamically | decide the height of the ad. They don't want you use use a | fixed height container: | | "The parent container has fixed or limited height. Responsive | ads should not be placed inside containers with a fixed or | limited height, as they may be taller on some devices or | browsers. If you need to limit the height of your responsive | ads, you'll need to modify your code and use CSS media | queries to set the height of the parent container." | | https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/9183362?hl=en&ref_. | .. | | https://support.google.com/adsense/answer/9183362?visit_id=6. | .. | pc86 wrote: | Which is strange since Google will also penalize your site | for shifting all the content after the initial paint. So | they won't let you define a maximum width or height, but | will also penalize you for having dynamic width and height | elements. | draw_down wrote: | jtode wrote: | Of all the things web designers do, this is the one that makes me | want to reach through the wires and ju | ldjb wrote: | Something that really frustrates me is when an alert pops up on | my screen just as I'm about to tap something, so my tapping then | dismisses the alert before I've had a chance to read what it | said. | | Hopefully the contents of said alert weren't important, but in | most cases I'll never know... | kadoban wrote: | If this is for Android, there's a notification history you can | look in. You may have to turn it on first, can't remember if it | defaults on or off. | colanderman wrote: | In addition to this, macOS has the following bizarre behavior | with notifications. | | If any one application emits multiple notifications (say, | several new calendar items), they pop up in a group -- but this | is hard to see, since they're all stacked on top of one | another. There is an X at the top-left corner, just like all | other notifications. When you go to click the X, the group | suddenly expands, and _the X changes into a "Clear All" | button_!! 80% of the time this results in me closing a large | stack of notifications without realizing they even existed. | ceejayoz wrote: | Yes; I've long wished there'd be a 500ms or so "no interaction" | delay on these. | bondarchuk wrote: | I have googled the letter "n" countless times just trying to | visit news.ycombinator on firefox android... | zinckiwi wrote: | There's probably a bit of the algorithm that is dutifully | noting your long-time, consistent interest in n, and making | sure to reward you for your dependability by canonising it | ever-stronger in your profile. | bombcar wrote: | And now you're the world's leading expert on n | delecti wrote: | I've likewise googled "i" countless times trying to go to imgur | on firefox windows for the same reason. | kylehotchkiss wrote: | * open instagram | | * see cool photo | | * go to interact with it | | * photo is gone, replaced with something else | AndrewDucker wrote: | Latest one to catch me out on is when receiving calls on my Pixel | phone it will pop up "screen call" as an option where the "accept | call" button had been half a second earlier, and not let you | override it to actually accept the call. | derekp7 wrote: | That one caught me the other day (shortly after an Android OS | update). I only saw it once, with the button down at the bottom | of the screen. I can't seem to get it to do that again when I | try calling my phone from another phone. | | Also, your report is the only instance I've seen to confirm | that this happens -- for whatever reason no one believes me | when I post something about this to any Android group. Just | like I seem to be alone in trying to figure out how to get the | Contacts (when launched from the dialer) to show only specific | groups (such as contacts with phone numbers). I can do this | from the Contacts app, but not the Contacts tab inside the call | dialer app. | actionfromafar wrote: | How many times I haven't called the wrong number on iPhone. It | somehow rearranges last called list exactly as my finger travels | down to touch the screen. | [deleted] | nilslindemann wrote: | I doubt that the reason for the suddenly appearing banner in the | first example is a slow internet connection. The app checks if | the mouse is near the button and then the banner is loaded. A | form of clickjacking. | lnauta wrote: | Google with its 'related searches' that pops up because I clicked | on a link and I am almost never interested in this extra | information. When trying to filter the relevant javascript it | breaks some other stuff on the page (last time I tried a few | years ago). Grrmbl | boosteri wrote: | Related, on Android the Mobile wallet seem to went through an A/B | testing of some sort, alternating between 'Google Pay' and | 'Wallet' app couple of times. The icons would automatically | disappear, replaced by the other option. Que me standing in front | of the POS desperately scrabbling around my mobile screen, | feeling like an idiot the first time it happened. | drewbeck wrote: | Instagram search is my daily frustration. 100% of the time I | search I'm looking for a user's account. Type type type, see the | user come up in results, go to tap but now they've loaded in 10 | possible autocomplete options for my search, pushing the thing I | want off the screen. And of course now I'm in the "explore" page | with a search term I don't want, taking a bunch more taps to get | where I need to go. | | I agree with others that I think the incentives are against the | user here. In the IG case they don't care if I find my friend | quickly. It does not help them in any way. But hey they got a | click on the autocomplete suggestions (win for that PM) AND | another view on the explore page. Clearly I love these features! | lame-robot-hoax wrote: | This pisses me off more than it should. I've slowly gotten | better at not immediately clicking on the account (which ends | up with me clicking on the search result that shows there | instead) but every time I forget I get unreasonably mad. | h0l0cube wrote: | Anyone else try peeping the chat in Zoom? | low_key wrote: | It's awful. I absolutely hate it. First click: show chat. | Second click: record meeting. | h0l0cube wrote: | I'm glad I'm not alone | togaen wrote: | jfc yes | timnetworks wrote: | Microsoft Teams is terrible with this. People are _constantly_ | responding with accidental and unrelated emoji reactions when | trying to interact with a post. | | Nothing better than trying to reply to a death in the family of a | coworker with a LMAO smiley. | | [edit] Microsoft Teams is just generally terrible. It's likely | the worst piece of 'competent' software I have ever ever used. | [/edit] | itronitron wrote: | It would also be nice to have functional scrollbars again, | instead of the 3 pixel wide ones we have now which have removed | support for clicking to scroll. | [deleted] | bombcar wrote: | I swear some of these are intentional results of bad A/B testing | (or active maliciousness) - especially as it often seems that | what you want to click moves out of the way for an ad. | shitloadofbooks wrote: | Steam does this when you're going through the discovery queue and | land on page with a "stream" or whatever going. You're about to | click Next and then the Stream element loads and shifts the whole | page down ~500px and then you click on something else. | | It's absolutely infuriating! | etothepii wrote: | VSCode LiveShare | sli wrote: | I would, if I had literally any agency in these decisions. I can | explain the problem, it will get nods, and I'll get told to do it | anyway. Folks need to really adjust the focus of their criticism | where it belongs. | exabrial wrote: | While we're at it... Front end developers: stop using JavaScript | for _fucking everything _. | mcv wrote: | My biggest frustration for this is the typing completion on | Android. I'm typing, and while I'm typing another character for | the word, I see the word I want listed above the keyboard. But | just as I hit the word, the suggestions update and my word is | replaced by another. And often my word is still listed, but in a | different place, which js incredibly annoying. Or sometimes the | word disappears, despite it still being a valid completion for | the word I'm typing. Why suggest it and then remove it? | linsomniac wrote: | A lot of the responses are talking about how apps should fix | this, which I agree with, but I'd also like to see it at a higher | level... | | I'd like to see frontends (browsers, Android, iOS?) remember | their widget hit points for ~400ms, and if you've touched | somewhere that had a different widget hit point within that time, | use the old widget. | Godel_unicode wrote: | Or at a minimum don't go to the new widget but just have a UI | indication that you registered the touch/click. | a1371 wrote: | AliExpress had this annoying thing that an ad bar would appear at | the top of the screen about a second after page load. The ad bar | would shift down the search bar just as you wanted to click to | search something. So you'd accidentally click on the ad instead. | | This was (is?) the issue for quite some time. I always wondered | if the analytics people knew about it or they thought that ad | just gets a lot of hits. It was always some AliExpress promotion. | neilv wrote: | This problem first occurred in the mid-'90s, and people saw it | was a problem, and that's why we specified the image dimensions | in HTML (before the GIF or JPEG header was loaded), so the layout | wouldn't shift during load, when people were already reading and | navigating. | | Since almost the beginning, graphic designers were trying to | layout Web pages like an advertising brochure, lots of bad ways, | rather than as hypertext. When, in a sense, they finally did take | control of the Web, HCI (usability in service of user) had | evolved into "UX" (advertising-like graphic design in service of | non-users). | | There's often disincentive for things like "user can understand | what the controls are and what the state is", "user can focus on | the information they want", etc. UX won't care about these things | until some time after users are so aware of the problems that it | affects engagement metrics and eventually A/B testing figures out | why. | | I'm imagining a eureka moment, during which a UX researcher, | trying to find a new, improved dark pattern, to screw over | hapless users harder, accidentally lets slip in some old-school | good usability, which wasn't even supposed to be in the test | sets, but discovers that this strangely resonates with users. | solardev wrote: | In my experience, it was usually higher-ups and not the UX | people who wanted to implement dark patterns. The UX people and | devs wanted to make the enduser experience better (believe it | or not), but were frequently overridden by some higher business | priority (we NEED this popup as soon as the page loads! opt | them in to all the newsletters by default! highlight the | highest-margin products). | | Some companies just don't respect their users or customers, | and/or try to optimize for short-term metrics that make some | individual or agency or department look good at the expense of | long-term loyalty. But I've never seen a UX person willingly | suggest a dark pattern... all the ones I've worked with were | forced to implement them, despite much protest, because some | manager wanted it there. | tartoran wrote: | Both front end and backend devs are the eqivalent of | workhorses who implement whatever the business wants. Few can | afford to keep their record spotless and while I struggle to | point out my own blemishes I sure as hell worked on things I | didn't believe in or things I wouldn't do if I didn't have to | earn a wage. | seer wrote: | It's not so hopeless though. Not sure about UX, but for devs | there are plenty of jobs, so you are free to switch whenever | you see people doing or worse, demand you to do, dark | patterns. | | I've literally quit a job out of protest, where I started | reading user emails complaining about the service we were | building. | | Stuff like "put the unsubscribe button at the far end, gray | on a gray background, so it will be harder to find". People | were actually closing their bank accounts as they couldn't | find a way to unsubscribe from the service... | | We had a few hard talks about it and when the company kept up | with it I just up and quit. | | And I got a job for a lot more money almost immediately. | Turned out people who would do that to users, were | underpaying their employees quite a bit too, who would have | thought... | resonious wrote: | I think this kind of thing is super easy to introduce with the | modern practice of async everything. | | When I visit a modern webpage, it feels like I'm watching a golem | take form from the debris around it. It starts out as this weird | ugly contentless frame, and then things start popping in one at a | time. It's quite hard to know when it's done. | | Makes me miss the days when servers would serve me a _full | webpage_. Browser shows me that it 's loading, and once it's done | it's done. It's also easier to develop sites like that, as you | don't have to code your own loading spinners or make those weird | "empty placeholder content" boxes that kind of show you how the | site is laid out. | seer wrote: | What an apt analogy! I always thought of it as a transformer | unspooling from its compressed "car" form. | | But thats what we get when multiple teams are responsible for | the same web real estate. | Jedd wrote: | Spotify (on Android) is the worst offender for this. | | The playlist shortcut shows six playlists, but 2-5 seconds after | rendering these, about the same time it takes you scan over them | and see if the playlist you want is offered in this set and get | your finger into position, it re-renders them with different | content & different order. | | The full playlist selection does the same thing, using some | hybrid and opaque MFU / MRU algorithm -- I'd be delighted with a | pure alphabetical ordering, rather than having to visually scan | down an unsorted list _that 's re-ordering itself as I read_. | | Mind, the Spotify UI can be held up as a shining example for | basically every user-hostile anti-pattern, so I guess there's | _some_ consistency in their design. | andrewflnr wrote: | Interesting, I've encountered a lot of problems with Spotify on | Android, but not that one. | | I did have to do some work to track down the alphabetical | ordering feature for my playlist listing, after they unset it | and moved it, but it is possible to set it, at least for the | main listing (I find the MRU thing helpful for the "Add to | playlist" menu, so I don't mind that I don't know if it's | possible to set it there). | bschwindHN wrote: | Yep, Spotify immediately came to mind after reading the title. | Happens on iOS too. | kichik wrote: | For me it's Twitter for Android. It keeps loading new tweets to | replace tweets I'm actively reading in the timeline. | yonrg wrote: | Yes, just please ... | butz wrote: | My personal favorite is finding a place to put cursor, so | animations would get stuck into endless hover/normal state. | graycat wrote: | I agree and don't like Web pages that are complicated, require | time, clicks, and effort to _learn_ to use, have page content | jumping around, cover the page with images requiring the user to | stop what they are trying to do, change the window size and | magnification, find a way to get rid of the image and do so, | return the window size and screen magnification to what they | were, and get back to the reason they came to the Web site. | | In my startup, uh, I'm on good terms with our front end developer | and we agree on Web page design techniques: | | So, no popups, pull downs, overlays. Nothing on the screen jumps | around or moves. Large, relatively bold fonts and high contrast. | | Always have both vertical and horizontal scroll bars. | | No warnings or requests to permit the site to use _cookies_ -- | the site makes no use of cookies. | | Hmm, maybe someone somewhere, maybe the EU, will make a big stink | that we have not asked users to let us use cookies. Sounds like a | good source of publicity until finally we end the stink | explaining that we use no cookies and are not required to get | approval for NOT using cookies! | | The site HTML makes nearly no use of JavaScript. | | Users don't login. | | Users are not asked to spend money or _up click_ on some | popularity counter. | | The server cores generate each Web page quickly, and each page | sends for only about 40,000 bytes. When we convert the storage | for our SQL database from rotating disk to solid state memory, | the page generation will be significantly faster. Net, the site | is _responsive_. | | The pages and _user interface_ are based on just the HTML | _controls_ with one line text boxes, push buttons, links where | each link is a single word in the Roman alphabet in English with | a simple meaning -- page design techniques very familiar to | likely 2+ billion people. | | Ah, we don't expect 2 billion devoted users right away and will | be pleased with 1+ billion! | InCityDreams wrote: | You're doing everything right regarding cookies, but have | somehow managed to either not understand how the EU would | regard your non-use of them, or your site does not exist. | graycat wrote: | What I wrote is just a guess and partly a joke: Cookies and | requests to permit them are now so pervasive on the Internet | that NOT making such a request might cause some people to | assume the site WAS using cookies WITHOUT permission and make | a "stink". I still suspect that there might be some such | "stink". | | For the EU, I was poking fun at what appears to be some | _heavy_ bureaucracy in the EU. Also I was referring to the EU | as a geographic region and not necessarily a government. I | was guessing a "stink" might come from some person, maybe in | the media or some small organization; I didn't say or believe | that my site would actually be violating some EU law. | | No request to permit cookies is one more way to save the | users from _botheration_ and more quickly get to the purpose | of the Web site. | | > your site does not exist | | The code runs as intended, and site exists and is on the way | to being available to the public. | | The site seems to be by a wide margin the best solution for a | problem. | | The problem the site solves is one part of a quite general | problem. There should be opportunities for more startups to | solve other parts of the general problem. The general problem | should be good for 2 billion users, but the part being solved | by my startup might be 1% to 5% of that, that is, 20 million | to 100 million. That is the site has a _focused_ audience. | The _focus_ stands to make the audience smaller but easier to | please. | jodrellblank wrote: | > " _Hmm, maybe someone somewhere, maybe the EU, will make a | big stink that we have not asked users to let us use cookies. | Sounds like a good source of publicity until finally we end the | stink explaining that we use no cookies and are not required to | get approval for NOT using cookies!_ " | | The EU does not require you to ask permission to use cookies if | you do not use cookies. Encouraging web developers to not use | cookies, and as a consequence have no banners, is one of the | positive incentives of the cookie legislation. | amelius wrote: | In any case, when the browser decides that it has to move | something and you click, then the browser should remember the | state of the screen say 100ms ago, and use _that_ to determine | what you wanted to click on. | romellem wrote: | I agree with [this][1] idea: | | > an autocomplete has one chance to reorder per keystroke. if you | got it wrong and you have a better ordering a bit later you must | "swallow the sadness" (as per the original author of this wisdom) | but never change already displayed items | | [1]: https://twitter.com/dan_abramov/status/1470751551568363530 | devnullbrain wrote: | I want foo. | | - Type 'f' | | - foo appears in the search. | | - Type 'o', because I type with 10 appendages and getting them | to work together requires pipelining. | | - foo disappears from the search | | This should never happen. | colanderman wrote: | +1000. I forget which search -- it's probably macOS Spotlight | -- drives me batty with this daily. | | Firefox has a related misdesign. If you type a word which | matches both a search keyword and a history item, the search | keyword takes precedence -- which is nonsensical, since I've | typed nothing (not even a space) _following_ the search | keyword. So e.g. I have a `cpp` keyword to search | `en.cppreference.com`; typing `cp`+Enter brings up | `en.cppreference.com`, as does `cppr`+Enter, but `cpp`+Enter | does a search for an empty string. | yxwvut wrote: | Just wanted to comment in agreement and confirm that this | exact scenario drives me insane. Adding more information that | agrees with the existing top suggestion should never change | that top suggestion. | [deleted] | layer8 wrote: | This happens all the time on iOS with the "predictive text" | feature, it's maddening. | fbdab103 wrote: | Can someone please tell the Windows Start Menu designers? Have | completely ruined the experience as it constantly juggles items | as its heuristics are seemingly updated. I especially enjoy how | Bing results get prioritized over local applications and files. | CoastalCoder wrote: | You're the product. I'm not sure they care what you think. | layer8 wrote: | The sane alternative is to use OpenShell. | bombcar wrote: | I cannot figure out how "upd" shows Windows Update but | "update" does not. | neogodless wrote: | I realized the other day "stor" brings up Photos as the | first result. I'm dumbfounded. | cm2187 wrote: | But most of all it doesn't seem to be deterministic. Very | often I get a different behavior on the second attempt. | | Search in windows puzzles me. Like I don't get why it takes | so long to search files in explorer, while traversing the | same folder structure programmatically takes milliseconds. | Hard computer science problem! | hnick wrote: | Users are spending more time in the Start Menu, and visit | Bing more often: engagement metrics are up! | krick wrote: | Oh, it gets better. On Android (at least, LG-flavored one -- | never used any other android phone) I have an issue with inter- | app "Share" button popup. It somehow manages to re-shuffle all | the suggestions (apps/recipients) _exactly_ in the same amount of | time that is natural for me to spend before clicking on the | desired contact. Which several times made me send something to a | wrong person, which resulted in extremely awkward situations. I | don 't know how common that is, since it was never fixed after | all the updates, but I still have to be very careful and to make | an unnatural pause waiting for UI to update every time I use this | feature. | [deleted] | brokenmachine wrote: | The inconsistency of the UI is ridiculous too. | | There's countless examples, but the one that really annoys me | every day is when the alarms go off. | | I have alarms to wake up in the morning, and on the alarm | screen you have to swipe to dismiss, but to snooze you have to | _tap_ the other button. | | Sleepy me has a lot of trouble remembering which one's which, | even though I've done it probably a thousand times at this | stage. | | And even though it's a big 6.7" or whatever it is screen, they | make the buttons absolutely microscopic. | meibo wrote: | This still happens and it's the absolute worst, it gets worse | the more apps you have. It's also just incredibly strange how | it choose who to show in the share menu and there's no way to | exclude apps. | | No, I never want to share anything ever at all to #company-all | on Slack. Do not show it in my YouTube share menu when I want | to send a dog video to my partner. | macawfish wrote: | This is so so so so bad. It's such a high stakes situation too. | The instant-send shortcuts pop up right as I'm about to tap | something else, causing me to send something directly to the | wrong person with no intermediate step. What if I'm sharing | something confidential or sensitive? Way too much room for | error. | brokenmachine wrote: | I'm on Samsung and it doesn't re-shuffle as you're looking at | it, but it's in a different order every time. | | It's so irritating if you're doing the same operation many | times, ie sending the same picture to multiple people | separately. | | Also the share menu has a different layout according to what | app you're using. I understand that it's up to the app | developer to get fancy with it, but it would be really nice if | you could have a setting for "use standard share menus", or | something like that. Or even better if there was some way you | could make it be the same every time, like choose your favorite | apps to share to. | | It's unbelievable that these billion dollar companies can be | satisfied letting this garbage represent their product. | | I'd make sure to fix these if it was my hobby project, let | alone a "finished" product that's on sale by a giant | multinational. | bavell wrote: | Same here, every time I share something from YouTube --> | NewPipe, the icon is in a different place, even when I'm | adding multiple videos to my queue one after another. Every. | Damn. Time. So frustrating. | brokenmachine wrote: | Yes, it seems to be random order. Not even "most recently | used" or "most used", or anything. | | Just completely random - "fuck you, user - hunt though this | random list". | | It boggles the mind who would ever think that would be a | good idea. | ajjenkins wrote: | I agree that this is extremely annoying. It happens to me all the | time with the iOS keyboard suggestions. | | For websites, Google calls the Cumulative Layout Shift (CLS) and | it's one of the Core Web Vitals they use for measuring website | performance. | | https://web.dev/cls/ | heavyset_go wrote: | Which is ironic considering Google search results do exactly | this with suggestions after the page finishes loading. | zikohh wrote: | I came here to check that someone had mentioned this and I'm | not the only one. No clue how the article didn't mention this | because I get burned by it daily | heavyset_go wrote: | It drives me absolutely nuts to the point where I run a | UserScript to disable it. | wkjagt wrote: | Same thing happens when error messages push the whole form down. | This is annoying when for example I log in to my bank account | using 1Password. When 1Password gets focus (and the login form | loses focus), the login form immediately complains with an error | message saying the fields are required and pushes the form down. | When I select my bank login from the 1Password dropdown, I always | immediately try to click on the "Sign in" button, which at that | point moves up because the error disappears. | NikkiA wrote: | A particular bane of mine is the self-oscillating UIs, youtube is | particularly bad at it these days - if the mouse pointer is in | 'just the right place' (which is bigger than it sounds) then you | get the seek-bar preview frames popup, which moves things just | enough that the mouse pointer is no longer over the area that | triggers it, so it vanishes, and the whole thing starts again. | Oxidation wrote: | This can happen in native UIs as well. I've had to add | hysteretic behaviours to prevent the appearance of a scroll bar | somehow obviating the need for the scroll bar, so it vanishes | and now it needs a scroll bar, repeat as fast as the toolkit | event loop allows. | bchris4 wrote: | Happens to me quite often with searching for apps on iOS, it | almost seems perfectly timed to switch the icon you're | tapping on right as you're tapping it | esprehn wrote: | This is why everyone switched to overlay scroll bars. It's | also better for performance because you don't need to do | layout on a screen worth of content only to realize you need | to reserve 16px and do layout again. | BLKNSLVR wrote: | Yep, another vote for always scroll bar here. | | And an additional complaint about those tiny-thin scroll | bars that some idiot-designer though were slick because | they so minimally interfere with the rest of 1920px-width | display, which also makes them a giant pain-in-the-wrist to | click on because the width to make it appear is so thin, | and then clicking on the scroller is another challenge | whereby it's much easier to accidentally make the scroll | bar disappear. Rinse and repeat. | | I used to be half-decent at railgun in Q3A, but I now | struggle to hit scroll bars. That's a fucking design | problem. | pasc1878 wrote: | No the solution is to always show the scroll bar. | | Then I don't have to guess if there is anything to scroll. | leetbulb wrote: | I've always wondered, but figured that there must be, others | who find this type of UI quirk (and find it humorous). "Self- | oscillating" I like it. Thanks. | devmor wrote: | Twitter has an issue like this with its video player - clicking | on the vertical volume bar to adjust it and moving past the | seek bar that it intersects with causes the volume interaction | to drop off in favor of the seek interaction. | soulofmischief wrote: | A general golden UX rule is to never cause layout shifts on | hover events, preventing this sort of thrashing. | | Unfortunately, Google/YouTube and others have lost the plot and | no longer employ good UX professionals in their flagship | products. | ryandrake wrote: | I really wish UIs would stop doing things on hover events | altogether. Just because I stop my mouse doesn't mean I | intend to do anything, let alone auto-play a video or have | some pop-up explain something to me. Let me rest my goddamn | hand for a second! | racked wrote: | They probably employ large teams of both good and bad UX | designers, constantly deploying and A/B testing UI changes. | If the A/B test says the change wins, it stays. | | Sites like Booking.com do this to the umpteenth degree. | zinckiwi wrote: | At least they have the precisely correct blue, though. | https://stopdesign.com/archive/2009/03/20/goodbye- | google.htm... | vidanay wrote: | YouTube also has the problem that there is almost no dead space | to "park" your cursor. You have to carefully place it in | between autoplaying previews. | ksherlock wrote: | There is a youtube setting to disable that. Settings -> | Playback and Performance -> inline playback. | thewebcount wrote: | AppleNews on the iPad is like this. I literally can't touch | anything on the screen when reading news on it or I'll | accidentally "subscribe" to something, or open a new article, | or worse, put an article into some weird 1/3rd size window | that can't be gotten rid of and sticks to the side of the | screen. It's fucking maddening. | racked wrote: | Netflix is the worst at this. Nearly every time I use it, the | UI will piss me right off. | devnullbrain wrote: | I've noticed this with JIRA, there is not much space to click | 'safely' to focus on the window | BLKNSLVR wrote: | Azure DevOps is the same if not worse. I'm forever | expanding or contracting the Description and Acceptance | Criteria as there are no colour shades differentiating the | sections - you have to watch the cursor change. | | Then I wonder where the Description and Acceptance Criteria | are for the next User Story, because it remembers that you | (accidentally) contracted the Description for User Story X | therefore you obviously don't want to see it for any | others... | FridgeSeal wrote: | Even the blank spaces in jira can cause things to happen! | | Accidentally click on some white space? Well too bad, we've | closed whatever you're looking at, even though you're not | in a modal. Oh and also, you'll need to wait 30-seconds for | this new page to load, and you can't just bail out and go | back a page, because your browser can't hold the previous | page in cache/memory properly because it's some overly- | complicated JS app. | solardev wrote: | Jira is basically a UX anti-goldmine... a single place to | go to learn all the things NOT to do. | rendaw wrote: | And the autoplaying is them wallpapering over the issue that | thumbnails are user chosen and now have no relevance to the | actual video, right? | BLKNSLVR wrote: | Since Office apps started putting an increasing number things | in the title-bar (search, autosave, username, filename) | there's limited dead space to use for traditional things like | dragging and maximise / restore. I'm never sure where to | 'grab' or double click - I don't know if I'm going to start a | click-failure cascade if I do it in the arbitrarily, non- | obviously 'wrong' place. | plorg wrote: | Relatedly, many websites have nowhere to tap that doesn't do | anything. If you try to select some text then want to tap | away (to clear the copy/select all/etc popup) you can't do so | without navigating away from the page or causing something | else unwanted to happen. | | This gets doubly frustrating when navigational elements don't | contain actual anchor links. If you long-tap on mobile to | open in a new tab, the browser decides you are selecting text | and there is almost no way to dismiss the resulting copy/etc | popup without tapping elsewhere on the page - which you | cannot do without navigating elsewhere or otherwise causing | an unwanted action. | ianai wrote: | That sort of stuff is outright user abuse. | pc86 wrote: | No, it's just a bug. | toast0 wrote: | Google cloud console does this kind of thing without even | needing to have the mouse anywhere in particular. I just close | my eyes and click on where I hope the target will remain. | ptato wrote: | Where is that spot? That has never happened to me, but I'm | curious to see what it looks like. | princevegeta89 wrote: | Slightly unrelated, but all these media streaming apps and | services like Netflix/Prime Video/Youtube etc. are so horrible | by automatically playing whatever the fuck I am currently | focused on, although I am just scrolling to somewhere to find | my content. There is no way for users to focus "out" of the | thumbnails, other than focusing on a different thumbnail, and | it keeps playing the nonsense. All I would do is go back all | the way to main menu or where I started | chillfox wrote: | As someone who usually keep the mouse away from what I am | looking at (I find it distracting) It's super annoying for | random shit that I am not looking at to be activating. | Godel_unicode wrote: | At least on YouTube you can turn that off. | atahanacar wrote: | ...only if you have an account. | X-Cubed wrote: | You can turn it off on Netflix too: | https://help.netflix.com/en/node/2102 | jamiek88 wrote: | You can?! Investigation time! | climb_stealth wrote: | Holy cow, I had no idea. This is how to do it: when on | the youtube page, click on the profile button in the top | right -> settings -> playback and performance on the left | -> disable inline playback. | | /edit: It still plays videos on hover after changing it. | Only now there is no player popup anymore. | hnick wrote: | Following the same theme of liminal UI areas, another thing | that peeves me is touch screens like my local supermarket self- | checkout which respond with a beep (indicating they know I hit | the button) but do nothing, because apparently the beep-region | and action-region and not the same. Or maybe I dragged my | finger, in which case, please don't beep. | soulofmischief wrote: | I spent half an hour last night resolving this exact class of | bug on a padded clickable widget I was making. | | No one told me it had to be perfect, but I care about the | user and don't ever want the user to be surprised. | | That's the difference you get with outsourcing your | engineering team vs developing in-house. If you choose a good | team, your developers feel directly responsible for the user | experience, go beyond stated requirements, and aren't just | doing the bare minimum in order to make a paycheck. A good UX | professional is constantly testing their work with unexpected | input. | Godel_unicode wrote: | I disagree that this is an invariant of outsourcing; I have | worked plenty of places where the contractors/vendors cared | more than the FTEs. Conversely, the pressure for dark | patterns has generally come from the inside. | soulofmischief wrote: | This isn't a dark pattern, it's a combination of | incompetent designer-developers and a lack of robust | specification (on account of assuming competence in your | designer-developers) | hnick wrote: | I personally think that was a decent use of time - 30 | minutes vs a product-lifetime of not pissing off users that | little bit will give a lot of goodwill payoff. But I have | worked at a place with in-house developers where they | probably wouldn't have showed the initiative to do it | themselves, and if brought up later as an annoyance I'd be | asked for a "business case" which is a complete non- | starter, because how do you even begin to quantify this in | a way everyone can agree on? | | I value polish for its own sake highly as I think you do | too, a well made tool is more rewarding to use. But the | ones forecasting developer effort need a concrete | justification. So it's best to just sneak this in if you | can and hope other people you work with feel the same, | after all it's much quicker to do it up front than to lose | context and revisit it later. Asking permission will cost | far more than your 30 minutes. | soulofmischief wrote: | Agreed. Just make the best product you can, minding | deadlines. If you think your deadlines are too short for | the level of polish you prefer, discuss it with your | manager and/or decide what is more important to you: | polish, or pay. Whether that means putting up with it, | finding a better-aligned organization, or starting your | own product. | rounakdatta wrote: | Even the most UX-sensitive apps like Google Dialer (Phone) does | this bad behaviour. The Speaker button moves as soon as the call | gets connected. | teawrecks wrote: | Steam does this to me. Some games use an Invite button to open a | special steam invite menu. This shows all my friends with an | invite button next to them. It also insists on dynamically | sorting the list based on the person's current status (ex. | Starting/stopping a game). So if I hover over the invite button | for someone, and someone higher than them in the list moves lower | (or vice versa) right before I click, suddenly I'm inviting | whoever happened to be adjacent to them in the list. This has | only led to an awkward "actually I didn't mean to invite you" | conversation once. | yieldcrv wrote: | All the product teams think your accidental clicks on their | broken UI are "engagement", validating the continued use of that | layout | | And they also think your frustration is "longer engagement", | validating their KPI and job security and companies ability to | sell shares | naveen99 wrote: | gmail does this annoyingly also | cm2187 wrote: | The signal desktop app does that. I often open it to read a | message I just received. But by the time I click on the top | contact it is replaced by an update signal button. Very | frustrating. | userbinator wrote: | Front end developers: Stop making SPAs. | | 99% of the time I'm forced to use a site that turns out to be a | horribly bloated SPA that I only get to see after enabling JS, | and which will do irritating things like what is described in the | article, among others, it's to do something that could've easily | been done with a simple HTML form and perhaps a bit of JS | enhancement. | zikohh wrote: | Google search result suggestions beneath hyperlinks is one of the | worst at this. Was happy to see this article | postalrat wrote: | OS developers: stop opening a window I didn't open on top of the | window I was just interacting with. | hnick wrote: | Would it be possible on the rendering engine side to detect if an | item re-flowed and discard the user event if it happened within | some time e.g. ~200ms ago? Something sites could opt out of for | HTML games or things where it is intended behaviour. It's | probably a bad idea, but it might help. | | Side note about the first example, I wonder if Lyft is having | chats about "Users really want to set up group rides, but always | back out of the funnel - we have to make it easier for them!" | pixel_tracing wrote: | I thought this would be about frontend websites with ads, to me | that is much worse problem than these mobile apps. At least | mobile apps (native ones) provide a unified UI and framework, | front end sites insult the user by ads which move the html around | on the fly. | | Anyone know what I mean? Can anyone relate to my frustration? ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-11-28 05:00 UTC)