[HN Gopher] Inkbase: Programmable Ink
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Inkbase: Programmable Ink
Author : infinite8s
Score : 296 points
Date : 2022-11-30 11:55 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.inkandswitch.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.inkandswitch.com)
| RheingoldRiver wrote:
| This is fantastically cool. Similar to the e-ink cards that were
| posted here recently, a really neat application would be pre-
| programmed pen-and-paper board games that people distribute to
| each other, and you can then play with someone remotely; their
| edits to the board would show up on your device and vice-versa.
| Think hangman, battleships, etc. You could probably even do
| checkers/chess, by drawing an X over the piece you want to move &
| then drawing it at its new location, or something, though I don't
| know that this kind of interface would be better than a normal
| GUI. For the whimsy, perhaps.
| LoganDark wrote:
| Is this app available to try anywhere, as a PoC or otherwise?
| novaRom wrote:
| Rule Nr 1: never start reading a paper/article with no
| abstract/summary.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| > What would be possible if hand-drawn sketches were
| programmable like spreadsheets?
|
| It's at the top of the article. It's even bolded to catch your
| eye.
| novaRom wrote:
| A good abstract section is not the title.
|
| https://writing.wisc.edu/handbook/assignments/writing-an-
| abs...
| lvh wrote:
| If you prefer watching a talk, I can't recommend their Strange
| Loop 2022 talk enough:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifYuvgXZ108
| jakewins wrote:
| Odd thing: opening that video in the YouTube app on my iPhone
| makes the phone scorching hot below the camera in the back, and
| the crashes YouTube. Other videos from the blog post - YouTube
| or not - work just fine.
| PedroBatista wrote:
| The video is encoded in VP9, is your iOS up to date? ( since
| the hardware supports it )
| magic_hamster wrote:
| Reading the article, it seems more about programming your
| sketches to react as you draw, than using sketches for
| programming. I think both directions are interesting, but
| actually the latter catches my imagination more.
|
| Visual scripting could be a good start. Unreal's Blueprints are
| really good with their UI and they provide plenty of usability.
| Perhaps if you could draw your own nodes with the properties you
| want, this could create the missing link for a truly hand drawn
| visual programming language.
| pvh wrote:
| For one exploration of that direction, please see our paper
| Crosscut: https://www.inkandswitch.com/crosscut/
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| On the other hand, can one just scribble code with hand and use
| OCR to get it right?
| bogwog wrote:
| Programming languages require a lot of precision (one missing
| symbol, improperly capitalized letter, etc will break the
| entire thing), whereas even the best OCR is very imprecise.
| That sounds like a really bad combination.
|
| On the other hand, maybe a specialized programming language
| optimized for that could work. The blueprints idea seems like
| a good concept to start with.
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| That was definitely in my mind. There are dyslexic fonts to
| help people not confuse letters. We want a programming
| language whose structure is fairly immune to small
| mistakes.
|
| This is helped by the fact that inkbase has a domain-
| specific language, which does not have to be generally
| expressive, and where often short snippets are to be
| written.
| bee_rider wrote:
| It would be nice to be able to basically write an equation
| and have it evaluate. Even a pretty complicated one...
|
| A full programming language would be interesting but pretty
| alien. As someone who for whatever reason tends to end up
| with lots of super/sub/subsubscripts (sometimes with
| multiple dimensions in each!) -- variables with, like, more
| than 6 letters are basically a nightmare when writing by
| hand. I can't imagine writing at least with typical
| variable names, by hand. Although maybe a programming
| language that looked more like prose would be possible.
| rkagerer wrote:
| _We created a spatial query system where the user can ask for
| objects in a specific region, inside a specified path, or in a
| general direction (e.g. "to the right of... ")_
|
| Neat!
| sporkl wrote:
| They mention towards the end that they haven't found a natural
| programming model for this sort of thing yet and are playing
| around with different ideas. My initial thought was that an APL-
| style language with OCR could be a fairly natural fit, maybe as
| part of a node-based thing like their Crosscut project.
| nyadesu wrote:
| Cool stuff, this demonstrates there's still a long way to go
| regarding building user interfaces
|
| Also, I can imagine something like this would be very valuable
| when applied to language learning, especially for languages with
| ideograms
| agentultra wrote:
| I've wanted to be able to program on my ReMarkable since I pre-
| ordered the RM1 way back when. If I had the money this is exactly
| the kind of work I'd be doing. Impressive stuff, @inkandswitch!
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Superb. Best top-ranked submission of this year, imo.
| mahastore wrote:
| What is it? Suggest you put a two line TLDR summary on top of the
| article. I spent around 3 mins in the web page but could not
| comprehend it fully.
| [deleted]
| tta wrote:
| This is absolutely amazing. I'm working on a small side project
| exploring programmability in a smaller design space, and this
| really takes those ideas to the next level - I'm definitely going
| to be spending days going over this with a fine-tooth comb.
|
| Thanks for sharing!
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| I am also working on such a project. Any interesting resources
| you could point to that helps with the design of such tools?
| [deleted]
| chrisweekly wrote:
| This is so incredibly cool. I love everything about what Ink and
| Switch is doing here - the what, the why, and the how. Even the
| presentation -- the website post per se -- is just gorgeous.
| It'll take me time to absorb everything in it, but it's already
| become the first thing in years to make me think I might want an
| iPad (vs my trusty reMarkable2). Amazing work, bravo, thank you
| for sharing. This is precisely the kind of thing that helps
| remind me that excellence and craftsmanship and the high-minded
| diligent pursuit of worthwhile innovation are still to be found
| and celebrated.
| adfm wrote:
| The prior art section should be a reminder that we haven't
| progressed as far as some might think. I'll watch Doug
| Engelbart's demo every year or so to remind myself of that.
| pjmlp wrote:
| The Strange Loop 2022 talk was quite interesting to watch.
| neonate wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifYuvgXZ108
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| > Most of our examples were built entirely on the iPad, using
| Inkbase's interface. Sketchy math was not. Much of the code that
| runs it ... was written on a laptop.
|
| > Building larger, more technical software systems in Inkbase
| becomes extremely difficult for many reasons, from the poor
| ergonomics of typing with an on-screen keyboard
|
| Nobody has really solved the ergonomics problem of being able to
| type on a keyboard and also sketch, and have the entire system be
| portable and friction free.
| yarg wrote:
| Decent handwriting recognition would help here - not as a full
| substitute, but as a lightweight alternative.
|
| Though I cannot imagine it working within the confines of the
| keyboard HID API.
|
| With non-defective keyboards (and non-spazzy hands), the key
| presses on a keyboard are non-probabilistic; that's not the
| case with handwriting, where a large amount of the information
| regarding how to interpret text comes from the surrounding
| characters - including those that follow.
|
| You'd need to deal with the shifting probabilities of text
| input, and without introducing user noticable latency or
| triggering an excess of events.
|
| It doesn't sound impossible, but it wouldn't be easy either.
| password4321 wrote:
| Bluetooth keyboards are a thing, right?
|
| The ones that fit as part of a case seem ideal.
| chabad360 wrote:
| Wow. This is the thing I've been looking for for years (ever
| since I got my remarkable), something that would allow me to
| augment my scribbles and bullet journals.
|
| To be honest, this is something I'd be willing to pay a lot of
| money for...
| robmerki wrote:
| Can you please make a newsletter to sign up for? I would love to
| follow your progress. I have wanted an app like this for a long
| time!
| pvh wrote:
| We may in the future.
|
| The RSS feed is a good long-term bet, and in the past we have
| posted on Twitter at @inkandswitch.
| dcre wrote:
| Here's an RSS URL from a recent Tweet:
| inkandswitch.com/index.xml
|
| https://twitter.com/inkandswitch/status/1592239625573400576
| darylrowland wrote:
| This is very cool. I was actually trying to do something like
| this with a side project over the last few years that lets you
| sketch out wireframes and add in logic and various custom
| components.
|
| For me there is something really powerful in drawing freely with
| a pencil and not being constrained by the way tools (Figma, etc)
| make you think.
|
| Anyhow side project is here if anyone wants a quick way to do
| wireframes and add in logic, components, etc -
| https://roughups.com
|
| Specific lesson on using data here
| https://roughups.com/learn/boxes
| robterrell wrote:
| This is really impressive. There's no video on how the "Logic"
| editor works. Have you thought about linking something like
| QuickJS and allowing actual code?
|
| If one could write generic code, and if the properties of the
| inked objects were exposed to the runtime (i.e. corner points,
| stroke/fill colors, rotation, etc.) your app would be really
| close in functionality to the linked project.
| darylrowland wrote:
| Ah yeah I seem to have not uploaded the logic video there
| will track it down. It's very much a first iteration at the
| moment but that is a great shout on using existing libraries.
| I also had ambitions to connect to data sources/apis etc so
| hopefully coming soon with that.
|
| My ultimate aim is to get it so that you can actually publish
| a sketched app to the App Store... whether apple would accept
| a scribbled app or not I don't know!
| turtledragonfly wrote:
| This is neat!
|
| However I still think they'll have to pry my pencil and paper out
| of my cold, dead hands (:
|
| Maybe I'm biased, since I've been drawing a fair amount from a
| young age, but as I watch these videos, and with every other
| technology like it I've seen, I can't help but think: "Oh, that
| would start to annoy me pretty quickly."
|
| Maybe someone who grew up with a technology like this, and had a
| Vim-like relationship with the system (so they knew with
| confidence how it will dynamically act) would be able to do some
| really impressive stuff, though.
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(page generated 2022-11-30 23:00 UTC)