[HN Gopher] MSN replaced journalists with AI publishing fake new...
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       MSN replaced journalists with AI publishing fake news about
       mermaids and Bigfoot
        
       Author : cpeterso
       Score  : 106 points
       Date   : 2022-12-03 20:00 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (futurism.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (futurism.com)
        
       | civilized wrote:
       | I'm confused about what "the rules" are for fake news. Once we a
       | week we go to the supermarket, and lining the checkout aisle we
       | see tabloids peddling what seem to be obviously false celebrity
       | gossip stories, but presented as news. This has been going on for
       | as long as I can remember - so, at least 30 years.
       | 
       | I guess we're supposed to be alarmed here because MSN was once
       | not a tabloid? Not that I would know, I've never read it.
        
         | kodah wrote:
         | Tabloids are not different than much of the shitposting some
         | people do on the internet. They'll take one small truth and
         | extrapolate it into an entire learned lesson based on smoke and
         | mirrors. The gossip end is just kind of gross to me, but I'm
         | already the kind of person that doesn't hang out with people
         | that tend to gossip.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Amusingly enough if you actually _read_ the tabloids (or at
         | least decades ago this was true) they often were just reprints
         | of actual small-time news stories; the tabloids basically made
         | the front cover out of  "Bob in Bobville said what his brother
         | done got et by a hornytoad".
        
         | truculent wrote:
         | IIRC the original term was coined for a specific type of
         | misinformation where the aim is to erode trust in institutions
         | and truth in general by bombarding people with incorrect news
         | (kind of like a DDoS on truth). This is differentiated from
         | salacious tabloid gossip or from propaganda (which seeks to
         | push a specific, alternative truth).
         | 
         | However, now the vernacular use seems to be totally
         | undifferentiated, yes.
        
           | spookie wrote:
           | Disinformation can go hand and hand with propaganda, look at
           | the current European war. I get what you're saying, but just
           | pointing out that it can be used in detriment to the morale
           | on the other side of the fence.
        
         | MonkeyMalarky wrote:
         | Yes? It is the steady and constant decline and spread that is
         | the problem.
        
           | civilized wrote:
           | I tend to agree, just thinking out loud.
           | 
           | Filling grandma's trusted news page with nonsense is elder
           | abuse, and could be much worse if they hit her with, say,
           | antivax conspiracies at the right time.
        
             | DiggyJohnson wrote:
             | I don't see what the specificity is very relevant.
             | Declining quality of reporting hurts everyone, grandma and
             | kids and geniuses and morons all.
        
               | civilized wrote:
               | It's relevant because we can't imagine the impact on
               | everyone. If we try, we simply imagine ourselves.
               | 
               | I certainly agree that grandma is not the only kind of
               | person who could be harmed by this.
        
           | bawolff wrote:
           | Its hardly steady and constant. There is a recent spike, but
           | "yellow" journalism was a really big thing historically.
        
         | MintsJohn wrote:
         | Gossip is presented as gossip, fake news a news (or in this
         | case facts).
         | 
         | (I read the article twice, the website being unknown to me I
         | thought it was fake news, and it still seems weird to me that
         | MSN uses AI generated content, otoh why not, the mess MSN
         | forces on me in windows has been distopian for years, and the
         | mentioned article appears on MSN. Sad times that these days I'm
         | sceptical of anything. I honestly feel this is one of the
         | biggest dangers of our times, the ease with which populations
         | can be influenced and truth is just a matter of alternative
         | facts, the common argument is that it is of all times but that
         | neglects how much easier, more sophisticated, and larger the
         | reach is)
        
           | fjsofkjdsfkos wrote:
           | If there's any doubt about the authenticity of Futurism, you
           | can click through and read the MSN "articles" for yourself.
           | It's definitely real!
           | 
           | I do think there's some confusion here over exactly what's
           | happening. MSN's AI isn't generating entire articles like
           | GPT-3; it's just using AI to curate articles for
           | republication from across the web, but accidentally (or
           | perhaps intentionally, in a sort of wink-wink situation for
           | clickbait traffic) selecting ones that are clearly fake news
           | (including literal stuff about mermaids and bigfoot.)
        
             | MintsJohn wrote:
             | Ah yes, with all the GPT3 news I thought MSN was using it.
             | Thank for correcting that assumption. Doesn't make the
             | situation any better of course, it's just that MSN
             | forwarding anything unfortunately is no news to me.
        
         | toldyouso2022 wrote:
         | Fake news are good for society because it forces people to
         | triple check when they wanna know something. Not all people
         | will triple check everything, but it's better than a society of
         | people believing whatever comes from authority.
         | 
         | Also censorship is bad and all that.
         | 
         | Thank you fake news!
        
           | system2 wrote:
           | Unfortunately people are not as evolved as you think. They
           | still believe fake news.
        
             | blooalien wrote:
             | Worse than just believing it ... these days they can
             | (nearly) instantaneously share it to zillions of other
             | people around the world many of whom will _also_ believe
             | (and re-share) it, and few in that chain will bother to
             | fact-check it themselves, and of those few, even _fewer_
             | will take the time to call out the error  / misinformation,
             | and even if they do, they'll almost instantly be shouted
             | down and ridiculed by all those who just outright _refuse_
             | to see facts when they really _really want_ to believe a
             | lie. This of course leads the average  "volunteer" fact-
             | checker to just sooner or later give up even _trying_ to
             | fight the growing waves of  "fake news", and keep their
             | fact-checking to themselves; Not good for _anyone._
        
         | DemocracyFTW2 wrote:
         | Some people have been alarmed about this and did drag
         | publishers to the courts over fake news parading as truth for
         | much longer than three decades. That it has been having a
         | constant presence for as long as you can think and doesn't do
         | harm to you personally doesn't mean it's not a societal
         | problem. Car exhausts haven't killed you in the past and have
         | been around for ages, so... more car exhausts should be no
         | problem, no? Especially when I choose to ignore them?
        
           | civilized wrote:
           | My comment is directed at our confusing historical norms.
           | Personally I would be happy if all this nonsense would go
           | away. Not quite sure what can be done about it though.
           | 
           | Seems like it would be good to have more nonprofit news
           | organizations with credible dedication to integrity.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | hanafudafan wrote:
       | I'd rather have machines writing fake news than humans,
       | personally.
        
       | nmz wrote:
       | This doesn't seem like a credible news source.
        
       | bhawks wrote:
       | Last week YouTuber Allen Pan launched Canadian United Media in
       | response to CNN using one of his previous videos unattributed on
       | their platforms. The site is all AI generated from a model
       | trained on CNN content. Funny to see MSN putting another Allen
       | Pan idea in to practice.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/lCSrN-e_dkE
       | 
       | https://canadian-united.media/
        
         | Aeolun wrote:
         | Ah yes, I can see how someone could mistake this for a real
         | news article: https://canadian-united.media/2022/12/03/your-
         | guide-to-findi...
        
         | dpflan wrote:
         | Excellent, indeed, this will happen more and more, completely
         | made up infinite content that seems very real, news site,
         | entire functioning social graphs/networks with believable
         | characters...
        
         | djkivi wrote:
         | CUM?
        
       | dpflan wrote:
       | Were the main images for each article generated by AI too? They
       | are pretty funky, especially the "Fishermen Catch Mermaid
       | Creature in Their Nets" (https://www.msn.com/en-
       | us/news/technology/fishermen-catch-me...).
        
       | StanislavPetrov wrote:
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | I always assumed this was happening to an extent already,
       | particularly with sports. In the sports news world you get all
       | sorts of "season previews" and various articles with "each team's
       | strength's and weaknesses".
       | 
       | If you weren't a fan of big name teams you'd inevitably find with
       | your team: coaches mentioned who weren't there anymore, players
       | who weren't there anymore, and various outdated factoids /
       | concerns thrown in. Some "concerns" almost felt like an AI
       | trained on fan forums where issues fans had, but had no place in
       | reality were raised, with even local fan forum lingo tossed in
       | ...
       | 
       | If it was a person, or a script that generated content that got
       | doctored by a person I don't know, but the patter was very clear.
        
         | awillen wrote:
         | That sounds like it's roughly on the level of Steven A. Smith.
        
       | wellthatsawrap1 wrote:
        
         | trident1000 wrote:
        
         | baxtr wrote:
         | What Intel are you referring to?
        
           | CrazyPyroLinux wrote:
           | Probably
           | https://twitter.com/mtaibbi/status/1598822959866683394
        
           | trident5000 wrote:
           | I think hes talking about a thread on Twitter where it was
           | exposed the Biden admin was working with Twitter employees to
           | take down content for political reasons.
        
             | nickthegreek wrote:
             | That's one way of stating it.
             | 
             | Another would be that people associated with the private
             | citizen Biden requested that Twitter review tweets that
             | were against the tos. Those tweets appear to be revenge
             | porn. Twitter took down some.
        
               | deadly_syn wrote:
               | Can you really consider someone who has held public
               | office for that long (or their immediate family) as a
               | private citizen? Even if you were friends with the biden
               | family before they had any political power, would you not
               | prioritize what they ask of you after they gained that
               | power? People like having famous and powerful friends
               | usually and will go out of their way to keep them.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | nickthegreek wrote:
               | Well it sounds like the argument you want to make is that
               | it's wrong if the people in power request Twitter to
               | enforce their tos on specific tweets? If so, it might
               | interest you to know that the actual administration in
               | charge at the time also requested tweets to be removed
               | for tos violations and those some of those were honored
               | too.
               | 
               | If anything, I believe, in the interest of tranparency,
               | Twitter should make all such requests from governments
               | available to the public moving forward.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | trident5000 wrote:
        
       | ok123456 wrote:
       | Did anyone notice?
        
       | muststopmyths wrote:
       | What a sad shitshow. News used to be a really good app on windows
       | phone.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | fjsofkjdsfkos wrote:
       | I think people are somewhat misunderstanding what's going on in
       | this story. MSN's AI isn't generating stories wholesale like
       | GPT-3 -- it's selecting other publications' stories from across
       | the web for syndication, but doing it automatically after the
       | company fired the team previously responsible for that curation
       | process in 2020. Unfortunately, this new system is clearly not
       | exercising good judgment about what articles or publications are
       | credible, because of the ridiculous stuff that it's republishing
       | from fake news sites about bigfoot, mermaids, monsters on Mars
       | etc.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | heather45879 wrote:
         | I'd like to point out this extends to the actual Windows 11 OS
         | because they relentlessly push National-Enquirer calibre news
         | to users. Want to get something done? Hit Windows key and start
         | searching for that app you want to use--only to be force-fed a
         | bunch of celebrity gossip because it prefix-matches the search
         | term and they want to sell Ad impressions.
         | 
         | I used to have high hopes for some of Microsoft's innovations
         | like Zune, Windows Phone, connect, Rosalyn--that glimmer of
         | open-source-hope from the Evil Empire.
         | 
         | But it's obvious now they are not really good at anything in
         | the consumer space anymore: Hopping on the ad bandwagon because
         | that's what Google does; stealing the OS X taskbar placement
         | for no good reason; turning the OS into the spyware folks used
         | to dread at the turn of the millennium; now we need apps to
         | remove Windows features just to use our computers.
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | Oddly enough the thing driving more advanced users to linux
           | now isn't that Linux is so good. It's that MS and Windows are
           | so bad.
        
       | DemocracyFTW2 wrote:
       | Funny how these days everybody seems to think that the world
       | should be run without anybody else.
        
       | this_steve_j wrote:
       | I would classify this sort of info-entertainment masquerading as
       | journalism as "zombie news" or perhaps "garbage pail news".
       | 
       | It lacks a sufficiently insidious motive to be considered "fake"
       | news, although an argument could be made that it erodes trust in
       | traditional media outlets when a publication with significant
       | reach goes fallow.
       | 
       | It has all the trappings of a media outlet but none of the
       | editorial brains.
        
       | musicale wrote:
       | After two years of pandemic/polarization/climate
       | disaster/war/recession/etc. doom and gloom I'm kind of ready for
       | some reporting on mermaids and Bigfoot.
       | 
       | Maybe they should bring back the print edition of the Weekly
       | World News.
       | 
       | MSN might also consider adding The Onion since it seems about as
       | accurate as many published news sources.
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-03 23:00 UTC)