[HN Gopher] Thunderbird for Android preview: Modern message rede... ___________________________________________________________________ Thunderbird for Android preview: Modern message redesign Author : _-david-_ Score : 178 points Date : 2022-12-05 16:56 UTC (6 hours ago) (HTM) web link (blog.thunderbird.net) (TXT) w3m dump (blog.thunderbird.net) | Twirrim wrote: | They're improving the email display by reducing the amount of | space showing the actual email? | | By very rough measurement it's reducing the email display area by | about an inch, dropping it from 4" to 3". I really don't want | that, myself. I open an email because I want to read the email. | That's my primary focus. One of the really nice things about the | K9 interface has been that so much of the screen gets dedicated | to the thing I actually care about (contrast this to the way that | web interfaces like outlook.com love to almost relegate the email | content to the bottom most corner) | izacus wrote: | Adding better margins and spacing around text significantly | improves readability on mobile (usually it also makes UI | elements easier to distinguish). | | Yes, there's a limit to that, but the new design is most likely | result in making emails easier to read despite stealing away | screen space. | grammers wrote: | I agree. Design updates in email clients are not that important | - unless it actually also improves usability. Unfortunately, | most apps just want to look fancy, not focusing on | functionality. | JaggedJax wrote: | To be fair, they are comparing a best case scenario email in | the current UI to a worst case email in the new UI. Multi-line | subject, multi-account identifier, tags, external images. So it | looks to me like there's actually higher information density in | the new UI. A little difficult to tell without a direct | comparison of the same email and settings though. | worble wrote: | Yeah, I do think they had a bit of a faux pas with this | showcase by not showing like-for-like differences. The first | email didn't have multi-line subjects or anything like that, | so it's hard to compare the two and see why the update might | actually be better. | nashashmi wrote: | I don't know. Seems like everything is twice or three times | as large. | | Click on who else was the message sent to -> appears a big | box that you have to scroll to figure out who is included. | mjw1007 wrote: | I agree. | | It looks to me like the only place they're really wasting | space is the hefty margin above the body text. | Klonoar wrote: | _> I really don't want that, myself. I open an email because I | want to read the email._ | | You have a working finger and can scroll the small amount | necessary to do that. More comfortable properly spaced out/laid | out UI/UX is generally ideal. | | They _should_ , though (at the very least) just let the | padding/margins be configurable for the people who seem to care | about this. No reason we can't have a middle ground approach. | e12e wrote: | It's wierd to use different samples for new and old ui too? Why | show different email in different design, rather than same | email in different design? | dhdhhdd wrote: | On my device, when the email fails to send, it gets stuck in an | outbox, and no magic incantation is able to retry it. | | The only thing that worked was to move the email from outbox to | drafts (by editing it) and then sending again. | | I wish this got fixed :-) | tecleandor wrote: | I've seen something similar happen when I answer to an email | address that's not configured. | | Let me explain better: - In K9 I only have | configured to receive and send from my main address. Let's say | it's 'main@domain.com' - I have several different | addresses to my main address. Again, let's say it's | 'secondary@domain.com.' - If I receive one of those | forwarded emails and reply to it, in the FROM you'll find | 'secondary@domain.com' - It will go to the outbox, but | never get sent... but without any error. So you never know it | wasn't get sent unless you check the outbox, and you won't know | the reason. | | I guess it's because there's no outgoing email profile for | secondary@domain.com and it's lacking some sort of error | management for that. | dhdhhdd wrote: | Interesting! | | In my case the error is actually shown. E.g. DNS error when | on crappy wifi or even without network. | | But then when i connect to a better network, it doesn't get | sent. | c_prompt wrote: | One random guy's opinion (and a long-time K9 user): | | Little UI design changes are NOT what you should be spending | time/money on; they are a waste of effort given K9's already | strong usability. I acknowledge it's your time/money but this | does not make the app any more appealing. I know I sound like a | broken record [1] but, at minimum, I believe Thunderbird could | take quite a few users (who prefer privacy-focused apps) from | both Google and Microsoft (not to mention 3rd-party apps [2] [3] | [4]) by integrating functionality at the local level. This would | be a considerable (IMO) differentiation in functionality. I will | continue to use Outlook until there is a significant | justification to switch to Thunderbird. And until "Thunderbird | for Android" is significantly differentiated in functionality | (i.e., ignoring UI), it will remain branded in my mind as K9. | | - Signed: someone who still calls a tall building in Chicago as | the Sears Tower | | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31728531 | | [2] | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.callicia.b... | | [3] https://addons.thunderbird.net/en- | us/thunderbird/addon/mypho... | | [4] https://generalsync.com/en/ | Obscurity4340 wrote: | What flaws are there in K9 that still motivates you to stick to | Outlook? | c_prompt wrote: | I use Outlook on my Windows PC and transfer all personal | contacts, calendar entries, tasks, and notes locally. I would | love to move to Thunderbird primarily because "Microsoft bad" | but then I'd lose my local transfer functionality (not to | mention Xobni - which still crashes every-so-often - but the | functionality is worth it). | yjftsjthsd-h wrote: | Why not just run Thunderbird on your windows pc, then? It | should synchronize perfectly happily using caldav et al. | c_prompt wrote: | Caldav requires the cloud. | matmatmatmat wrote: | Hm? We sync our calendars using Nextcloud, but | admittedly, that's not everyone's cup of tea. | goodusername wrote: | To avoid syncing my calendar and contacts to the cloud, | I'm using wireguard as a always on VPN on my phone, to | connect to a locally running CalDav/CardDav server. | Wireguard on Android can be setup to only affect specific | apps, so my DavX app is the only one using the VPN. | dlahoda wrote: | mailbird or emclient | vetinari wrote: | But is there a demand for desktop-based sync? | | You can run your caldav/carddav service in your local | network, if you are so inclined. You will get local sync, | and the client authors do not have to build specific | desktop-based tools. | | I for one do not want to return 15 years back, to | serial/irda/bluetooth sync, having to think about sync, and | eventually forgetting. Running a local service is much | preferable, with devices syncing themselves as they see | fit. | c_prompt wrote: | If you have a link for running a small footprint of a | caldav/carddav service on my Windows laptop, I'm all | ears. I played around using WSL and setting up a | NextCloud instance but why do I want to use 2GB+ just to | sync? | | At the end of the day, I want all my personal events, | contacts, todos, and notes on my laptop and able to sync | directly with my phone. I'm happy enough with my current | bluetooth sync and wouldn't trade it for UI changes. | vetinari wrote: | Personally, I'm using a small Synology NAS and the | Contact and Calendar servers that Synology provides. It | solves the problem for being a host for multiple devices, | with my laptop not having to be on, or even present, at | all times. Also having dns entry helps. | | But for running on your laptop? Yes, nextcloud is | overkill, it is not contacts/calendar server in the first | place. I would look for smaller, more focused tools | instead, baikal for example. For another inspiration, you | can have a look at what davx5 -- the caldav/carddav | provider for android -- tests against | (https://www.davx5.com/tested-with). | c_prompt wrote: | I use davx5 with my NextCloud setup on the cloud. But | that's not what I use (or want to use) for other events, | contacts, to-dos, etc. | MrBurrito wrote: | You can try DAViCal https://www.davical.org/ | c_prompt wrote: | Tried it when I played with WSL. Like with radicale [1], | I don't remember what specifically wasn't working | properly but it didn't. | | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33872707 | goodusername wrote: | You might be interested in https://radicale.org/v3.html. | Runs on my odroid board with 26mb memory. The | documentation is particularly good. I've used it as a | replacement for the Synology CalDav and CardDav services. | | It's very easy to install and does not require a DB. As a | bonus, it stores everything as files which can be read | and edited manually. It does require python. | c_prompt wrote: | I had played with it for 2 days before I gave up. I don't | remember what specifically wasn't working properly but it | didn't. Even if I had gotten it to work, syncing between | a Windows PC and Android device should not require that | level of effort. | orra wrote: | > Little UI design changes are NOT what you should be spending | time/money on; they are a waste of effort given K9's already | strong usability | | I'm going to go out on a limb and disagree. I left K-9 ages | ago, because unfortunately for ages it had no Material Design. | | These upcoming changes are a modernisation. That's good for | mass appeal. Mass users don't want an app which looks | antiquated. | handedness wrote: | On the other hand, I can't imagine leaving an app for that | reason. | | As one who fairly loathes Material Design (especially on | mobile), I was hoping cketti would fix what's wrong with | Thunderbird, rather than Thunderbird ruining the best Android | email client out there, which is now looking like an almost | certainty. | | I really hope there's a good fork. | awill wrote: | I'm neither for or against Material Design, but when I used | Android, but MD was generally a good sign that the app was | well supported, and the devs cared about UX. When I'd | search for an app, the high quality apps were almost always | MD. Maybe k9 was an exception, but I'm sure they lost | potential users. | kevincox wrote: | As a short-time K9 user I disagree. You have to pick between | the display name and email of senders. There is no way to show | both. This is because of problems with the UI design that risks | being misleading with malicious names. | | The think there are also lots of UX improvements that would be | great. Right now the threading UI is awkward. I'm really glad | that swipe actions and swiping between messages have landed as | well. | | I like K9 but I can definitely see the benefit of better UX. | ilyt wrote: | "But we hired designers and if we don't make small design | changes they'd be out of work" | | Seriously that's how most of the UI trends feel like | lelandfe wrote: | > _Little UI design changes are NOT what you should be spending | time /money on; they are a waste of effort given K9's already | strong usability_ | | "This rotary phone in the office is perfectly fine and usable! | The new-hires just need to learn how it works, and then it's | the exact same thing." | tmtvl wrote: | Learn how it works? It's a rotary phone! Just turn the disk | the appropriate amount for the number you're dialing and | loose. You could train a chimpanzee to do that. | lelandfe wrote: | You've rather missed my point, I think: an unfamiliar or | aging look over what is a common interface is a huge | problem for gaining new users. | | Further, I have witnessed people not understand rotary | phones. Plunk one down in front of 10 teenagers and I would | wager few indeed would intuit it immediately. | worble wrote: | What's wrong with rotary phones, other than being different | to the current norm? | lelandfe wrote: | "Intuitiveness" is AKA "resembling the current norm" when | it comes to UX. Updating an aging UI to fit current | patterns makes it more cohesive with the operating system, | attracts more new users, and avoids confusing those new | users. | | Attempting to paint "strong usability" through the lens of | existing users only (the guy who already knows how to use a | rotary phone) is a lopsided view of the goals for an app | creator. | rlpb wrote: | It's slow and tedious to dial numbers with many high digits | in them. And there's no quick dial function for commonly | used numbers. Both of these things directly impact UX. | PenguinCoder wrote: | > Signed: someone who still calls a tall building in Chicago as | the Sears Tower | | I think all locals/natives to the 312 and 773 still refer to it | as such. Ain't changing! | nicholasjarnold wrote: | confirmed. it's not changing. haven't lived there for a | while, but it'll always be the Sears Tower if you ask me. | snthd wrote: | Would JMAP not be a better focus both in general, and to | attract those same users? | | https://github.com/thundernest/k-9/issues/3272 | commandersaki wrote: | There's only one significant mail provider that supports | JMAP. | zahllos wrote: | ...and it must also be said that the selection of client | software that supports it is somewhat limited. For this | discussion, Thunderbird does not. I'd also add that some | fairly major providers, e.g. anything based on MS Exchange, | and Google's Android client, do their own thing (e.g. | ActiveSync). | | For myself I'm aware of a bunch of bugs in Thunderbird | affecting my experience and I'd rather these were fixed | first. | zmk5 wrote: | Kudos to the team. Looks great from the preview. I hope there is | an iOS version in the works. I would love to use this on my | iPhone instead of the default mail app. | quasarj wrote: | We need Exchange support, not whatever this is | ponytech wrote: | I am a Thunderbird user on desktop but I had been using Blue Mail | on Android for several years and had been pretty happy with it. I | may switch to Thunderbird when they have the sync feature | implemented. | lucb1e wrote: | K9 already exists today if you want to switch which is | "thunderbird for android" with a different name, but what do | you mean with sync feature? That it shows notifications, or | fetches all your email for offline reading or so? | solarkraft wrote: | Oh boy, I don't like that the document is split by the sender | info. Other than that I'm happy that a nice FOSS app is receiving | design attention. | indymike wrote: | Here are three killer features that would be a much better use of | design/developer time: | | * Give me a way to filter email based on the ORIGINATING SERVER, | not the advertised one. I.e. give me a way to filter stuff coming | from from bunchofalphanum.something.else.salesforce.com that is | relayed for somedomain.com with good domainkeys << This will make | email useful again. | | * Give me a way to quickly unsubscribe from marketing emails in | the email list view. (last I looked couldn't do that in K9 or TB | for android) | | * Give me a really nice threaded view with my responses inline | inbound messages as an option. | nolls wrote: | If you're going to use stock pictures to demo your interface at | least make sure that they match the sex of the name... | egberts1 wrote: | Any mail client (web, mobile, or desktop) that does NOT display | the fully-qualified email address (FQEM) next to the "UTF-8" | fancy name gets a hard PASS from me. | | Such FQEM should ALWAYS display the fully-qualified email | address. | | I am looking at all the email clients so far. (Please correct me | as I would love to be slightly wrong). | | I think I can safely speak for all tired people that we are tired | of spam. | lucb1e wrote: | This sounds like the type of thing FairEmail might have as an | option. You could also have your email server change the fancy | name to an ascii name so any client would display that. | college_physics wrote: | How would that interoperate with the desktop thunderbird? | guerrilla wrote: | It seems to be an unrelated code base. | college_physics wrote: | that's fine (or could be :-). I am thinking more about | syncing the state of differnt mailboxes, local storage on | mobile versus desktop, what is read / unread, user tags and | other such things. I.e. how to use the mobile and desktop | together as different clients to the same email content. | aendruk wrote: | In typical use both are IMAP clients. | Maxburn wrote: | The majority of what you are talking about (read / unread, | user tags and other such things) is handled by the IMAP | server. eg; I routinely start drafts on mobile, save it, | then continue to draft on a computer before sending. Also | set flags on mobile for follow up later on desktop. Almost | none of this depends on the client itself, it's all stored | in IMAP. | jeroenhd wrote: | Read/unread and tags are all supported by IMAP already so | that should be possible for sure. Same with | starring/flagging email, any willing mail client could | implement those. | | The big integration points I see are within special | features such as some kind of cross device PGP support, the | ability to sync customised "from" addresses, and other | features that the more basic built-in email apps lack. | | Perhaps the code could be further extended to also support | calendar, task, and chat functionality, just like on | desktop, but that would take more effort. | CalebJohn wrote: | They plan to integrate Firefox Sync with Thunderbird (android | and desktop)[1] | | [1]: | https://developer.thunderbird.net/planning/roadmap#firefox-s... | college_physics wrote: | that would actually be... quite good. but I'd love to see | more ambition (and community support) for thunderbird. I | would like it (or some future converge) to be my RSS reader | and, why not, my fediverse client. | heffer wrote: | I'm mentally preparing for the inevitable "Microsoft Office | Ribbons UI"-esque resentments from the power users in the | comments. | | Give it time. | asdfigadfjinio wrote: | No, I don't think I will give it time. UIs should nearly never | be changed. It doesn't matter much whether or not it's an | improvement. Don't monkey with other people's tools. | Kwpolska wrote: | Should we still be using the Windows 1.0 UI from 1985? | hulitu wrote: | Windows 10 looks a lot like 1.0 except that it is black. | waboremo wrote: | Whether it's an improvement matters, actually that's | explicitly the only point. | horsawlarway wrote: | I've said this before, but it's worth saying again: | | Define "improvement". | | Because the best UI (as in unquestionably the absolute | best) is the UI that you're already an expert with. | | Can there be better UIs later? Yes. | | Can there be better UIs for new customers? Yes. | | Can there be a better UI than the one you're already an | expert in? NO! At least not until you do the work to become | an expert in the new UI all over again. | | At a minimum, you're asking users to trust you that re- | learning their UI will ultimately be a better experience | for them. Because it will absolutely suck for your existing | user base when it first changes (this is why UI changes are | almost exclusively met with negative backlash from the | current users). | | Can you do that? Sure. Do companies do it often? Nope. The | vast majority of the time, the UI is changing for one of | two reasons: | | 1. The company believes the new user experience is better | with a different UI. They are actively trading existing | customer satisfaction to improve metrics around new users. | | 2. The company believes they can drive users to new | features with a new UI. They are actively trading existing | customer satisfaction to improve metrics around new | features. | | Neither of those are compelling reasons for a new UI from | the perspective of an existing customer. | | Broadly - they might still be an acceptable trade for a | company on the whole. But don't expect happiness from your | current users, and be very wary of the churn and brand | loyalty you're burning by making the change. | yamtaddle wrote: | I still hate the ribbons. I go looking in the top "file - edit | - view - [...]" menus for things that used to be there, find | them absent, and then have to go play Where's Waldo in the damn | ribbon. Even in Explorer, these days! And the ribbons | themselves just seem like a jumble of button sizes and | placement with no rhyme or reason. | MAGZine wrote: | I think they're placed and sized based on frequency of use. | | Anyone who thinks file -> print -> page setup is a better | place for orientation buttons than the ribbon gets my | curmudgeon award. | yamtaddle wrote: | That _is_ a pretty good place to have orientation buttons | _for printing_. Especially if it 's in the exact same place | in practically every program that can print. Programs like | Word managed to have toolbars for all kinds of things | before the Ribbon interface, and that was usually fine. | Often they even had printing-related buttons (in addition | to file -> print). | | One big difference is that these tended to be more compact | and one-dimensional. There's a lot of eye movement involved | in scanning a ribbon toolbar, looking for something, since | you have to scan both up-and-down and side-to-side; and the | mixed-size icons, mixed icons-and-labels that don't | segregate icons and labels to their own rows or columns but | jumble them together so you're always scanning a mix of | both, and inconsistent placement between programs make the | whole thing feel _slow_ and frustrating. | [deleted] | Jorengarenar wrote: | >Today, it's something even more exciting: a completely | redesigned message view! | | Every user in existence: oh no... | jeroenhd wrote: | I've used K9 in the past for its functionality but I switched | back to the Gmail app because the UI wasn't very good. I got | the feeling it was designed by and for programmers rather than | for a good experience. | | I'm sure most K9 users will lament the change and demand (the | option) to undo the redesign, but I personally consider this to | be a massive improvement, big enough to give switching back a | go. | | I just hope the users who prefer the old look will have the | ability to use a fork/alternate version so that they won't be | forced to adopt the new UI, perhaps one that only receives the | bare minimum amount of maintenance to keep current features | working for those that need them. | nashashmi wrote: | Eye candy is definitely the appeal of a commercial app. It | should not be the appeal of a technical and sophisticated | app. And that is what K9 was to so many for so long. The only | reason I left for outlook is because I was able to fit more | information in a small screen and because my workplace | migrated to Exchange which was outlook exclusive. | ilyt wrote: | > It's clean and readable, but we can do more to help you stay | organized and to highlight key information at a glance. | | _proceeds to remove content from the screen_ | | _shoves "show image" in the middle instead of leaving that space | for actual message content | | Seriously, it looks like they just copied how GMail on mobile | looks but _badly* and with more wasted space | arendtio wrote: | Reading about a Thunderbird version for Android got me exited, | because I am a big fan of the desktop version (actually, I | donated a few bucks this week). However, on Android I used K9 for | years, until I noticed how unreliable it became. I switched to | Outlook and it is okay. | | When I saw that the Thunderbird app will be based on K9, the | excitement vanished instantly. I really hope they will invest | into the reliability issues. Judging from the play store | comments, it could be worth it. | tecleandor wrote: | I don't know when you used K9 for the last time, but it has | improved in stability greatly in the last ~two years. It's true | that some years ago it went downhill for a while. | Aachen wrote: | Last time I used K9 was in ~2020 (then I discovered FairEmail) so | I'm not married to the old UI in any way, but from the before and | after screenshots, this seems like a regression: | | 1. Firstly, why did this need rebuilding? I know they want to | rebrand it from K9 to Thunderbird and I'm happy that the | thunderbird team isn't going to be caught up for years trying to | rewrite what already exists while K9 gets to benefit from a | comparatively very, very well-known name. But what was so | fundamentally broken here that it needs to be entirely remade? | Could just have applied a color scheme. | | 2. I had trouble recognising the subject as part of the email | (but only in the new layout). I was looking for it and looking | for it... and it turns out banner blindness strikes again: it's | above where I thought the email started. No problem, that's an | issue on day one only, people will get used to that soon enough. | | 3. The attention grabber on every email is going to be the | purple-colored "SHOW REMOTE IMAGES" (caps theirs). I can't recall | the last time I've shown remote images. Perhaps a Domino's email | where they briefly hid the discount codes in images in 2016/'17? | Anyway I hope that can be moved into a menu as it apparently was | before. | | 4. The date has like ten characters available to it. What happens | when it's not "10:00 am"? This seems designed by a designer, then | the coder comes in and finds that "yesterday" still fits but | "2022-07-03 22:47" is going a problem. That means either making | design decisions single-handedly and annoying users who were | promised (and gave input on) a different design, or going back to | the design team and the mailing list for input and on lord no | let's just hide the time and get something done today | | 5. There's suddenly a lot more space on the side. Hope that's | configurable, I don't have a large phone to begin with. Probably | just me. | | 6. The text seems bold and blurry. Probably the screenshot just | isn't shown at 1:1 size (old layout looks crystal sharp though?) | and the bold might be the email in question using a bold tag. One | can hope. | | 7. Recipients hidden when the field has literally ONE word in it | ("Alessandro"), there is space for at least another same-sized | name and a blank line below. I bet if you click that tiny expand | button (good luck not pressing on the user and composing an email | to them instead), nothing in the layout has to change to show the | three other names. This would annoy the heck out of me if I'd use | K9 for work where more than one recipient is common. | | 8. It says "Thunderbird Ryan" on top. Is that me? Is it reminding | me who I am / which account I'm using, and using another two | lines of text for that (one for the text, top and bottom each | like half a line's worth of borders and spacing)? Sure hope | that's default hidden if you have one account only and configure | if not. | | 9. What does a green lock with "OpenPGP" mean? Was the email | encrypted or signed? Both? Either? Is transport encryption | indicated? Can that also trigger the green lock? I was going to | ignore this but was looking for something positive to close out | with, scrolled down, noticed the pgp overlay screen and that it's | also not mentioned on there, and thought that this is an | essential UI element if users are ever going to know what the | lock icon guarantees, so UI space needs to be in the mockup if | you're drawing what the detail views are going to look like. | | 10. "Alessandro Castell..." is as far as it gets for the sender | in the new layout before cutting it off. On the old layout, | "Edgar W. Dijkstra" fit with two thirds of the line still empty. | There's something to say for putting more on that line, but not | even fitting one name in a field where a name is supposed to go? | Interesting choice. Hopefully you know your correspondents by | full name already or you'll need to open up another view if you | only know them by last name, want to address them as Dear Mr. | Castellsomething in a reply... | | Some of these are not going to be an issue for most people, but | I've tried to look for clearly positive changes and haven't | really been able to identify any. Likely most people will run | into at least one of these. I wonder still: why in the first | place... | eterps wrote: | HN'ers that use the K9 Mail app, with which email provider are | you using it? | | What features of K9 do you like/dislike, especially compared to | the GMail app? | miedpo wrote: | I use it with a few different email providers, including | fastmail and a self hosted server. Works pretty well for what I | need it to do. | | The only feature it's missing which hurts is nested folders. | All nested folders are displayed in a list structure, rather | than a tree, which is a bit of a pain if you use a nested | archive (think Thunderbird's Monthly Archive structure). | walrus01 wrote: | > with which email provider are you using it? | | My own fully self hosted dns, postfix SMTP and dovecot IMAP | over TLS setup. Not something to attempt casually unless you | work in network engineering for an ISP and have the motivation | to maintain your own MX and email hosting environment for other | reasons. | Multicomp wrote: | I use it with Fastmail for my main email + calendar + todos, | and I use it with Purelymail[1] for simply emails with no | nonsense. | | Both accounts, once setup, just behave. | | On the groupware front, I use DavX5 and ICSx5 to do to calendar | and todo sync to fastmail, and Tasks.org [2] to do the front | end for the todos. | | For my work accounts, I use the nine email app which lets me | authenticate to exchange active sync without needing a work | profile on my phone so I can see emails, calendar, todos etc. | | [1] purelymail.com | | [2] https://tasks.org/ | creeble wrote: | I use it on some self-hosted domains (all IMAP) but have used | it with Migadu, MXroute, and others. | | I generally like it more than FairMail (simpler, fewer options | that I seemed to need to set). But I have tried to sell it to | other Android users, and not having swipe-delete made all of | them give up. I'm fine without it, but would probably adapt to | it if it was Thunderbird standard; I use the iOS email app a | lot too. | zepearl wrote: | 4 self-hosted accounts, but I don't like much the ~new UI | because it makes switching account more complex. | kevinfiol wrote: | I use K9 Mail with Migadu. | | Feature-wise, nothing really caught my attention compared to | Gmail. At the time that I switched, however, K9 Mail was | noticeably snappier for me, had no Google Play Services | dependency, and weighed about 7MB to Gmail's 50MB (at the | time). | eterps wrote: | Thanks, never heard of Migadu before. | Tmpod wrote: | Same situation and reasons here. | | Migadu has been perfect for my needs. The basic plan at $20/m | is more than enough and it's basically dirt cheap. If you're | a student you can even get it for half the price. I really | like their lax and understanding limit policy. | joshstrange wrote: | Looks like "Basic" (Standard) is now $29 which even at $20 | I thought was rather high having never heard of them | before. After reading through their website and pricing | page it's pretty interesting. | | Instead of paying per "user"/"email address"/etc you pay | for usage (sent/received/storage). With this you can add as | many domains/email addresses/users that you want. If you | have 20 domain names where you just need need 1 mailbox it | costs the same as 1 domain name with 20 mailboxes since it | all comes down to usage. | | If I wasn't so deep into google workspace (or whatever they | are calling it this month, G-suite/g-apps/google apps for | your domain) and if I had it to do over again I would use | this in a heartbeat, I still might but it will be harder to | move (need to figure out how to keep docs/drive/calendar | stuff on google or migrate it to other services). | | Fastmail was the fallback provider I always considered | moving to but at $3-$5/user it's a pain to add old/low- | volume accounts that still need to be monitored but aren't | seeing a ton of use. Migadu solves that problem very nicely | and would probably lead to me spinning up new "mailboxes" | much faster/sooner because I imagine it's pretty easy to do | and then only need to think about upgrading as your usage | increases, not just your mailbox count. | | I couldn't find a good answer to "does spam count towards | your receiving limits", I found a reddit post [0] that says | it doesn't and that the limits are soft anyway (which I had | already seen) so I'm assuming this is the case or it | doesn't really matter in the long run. | | Lastly I wish they would offer 2FA though I understand | their current reasoning (still need no-2FA/app-specific- | passwords for IMAP so does 2FA really matter?). I get what | they are saying but it feels like they could implement 2FA | for managing/overseeing your account and then have app- | specific passwords for each mailbox (maybe 1 main with the | ability to create others so you could disable it if you | decide to stop using a client/service that you attach to | your email)? I could be missing something as I've not | actually signed up and tried the service, yet. | | [0] https://old.reddit.com/r/Migadu/comments/jqej2i/do_noti | ficat... | Zekio wrote: | Migadu is great especially if you mostly receive emails and | aren't sending out hundreds of emails every day | Maxburn wrote: | You might consider Aquamail. I found it to be more powerful and | configurable than K9 or Kaiten when I was on android. | | I'm MXRoute/fastmail/gmail/exchange on the back end for MX | service providers. | MayeulC wrote: | My own yunohost-based mail server, an ISP mail box, two | university mailboxes (zimbra). | | I mainly like that it's FOSS and on F-Droid (no google services | for me). I haven't used Gmail in years, but IIRC, no annoying | smart replies or features I don't use like gdrive, photos, | hangouts... denser UI, reliable notifications, unified inbox, | good multi-account support, support for gpg. It generally gets | out of the way. My mother asked me to reinstall it after she | changed phones. | | I could use better support for nested IMAP folders, better | search and syncing of said folders. Probably a better config | workflows for non techies? Though that's pretty good already. | | I would really like it to be easier to customize the sender | mail address, as I make extensive use of +aliases, and would | have to create a new identity each time. | johnchristopher wrote: | I use it for work email. No notifications, it's just a way to | read-only and check if anything comes up when I am AFK. | strtby wrote: | Migadu(mydomains), google(gmail), microsoft (outlook/hotmail) | branon wrote: | Using it with Gandi. | | I mainly like that it's no-BS, just works, is available on | F-Droid, small download, dark theme, import/export for accounts | and settings, lots of switches to flip in the settings should I | find any of them necessary to use. I expect none of this to | change with the Thunderbird rebrand so it's a win for both | projects _and_ the users as far as I can see. | pmontra wrote: | I'm using the old K9 (before the pre-Mozilla redesign saga) | with three POP3 accounts on the mail servers of the registars | of my domains. I check my mail on my phone, read it, delete the | unnecessary messages, eventually download on my computer | (Thunderbird) and backup. | | The old UI is very good at this worflow and that's why I ended | up using K9. The new UI with the unified inbox is bad at it. | This K9/Thunderbird? I should download it to understand how it | works. Probably like the new UI but who knows. | canistel wrote: | I switched back to K9 recently, as OAUTH2 works now. I am using | Gmail(IMAP) and Rediffmail(POP3). | | Light-weight. Does not add accounts to Android system. Less | colours. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-12-05 23:00 UTC)