[HN Gopher] Korg makes music with Raspberry Pi
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       Korg makes music with Raspberry Pi
        
       Author : sohkamyung
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2022-12-07 08:29 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.raspberrypi.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.raspberrypi.com)
        
       | TonyTrapp wrote:
       | Korg always seem to have been a bit pragmatic with using ready-
       | made hardware where other manufacturers go at great lengths to
       | come up with their own solution.
       | 
       | Look at the inside of this Korg M3: https://www.personal-
       | view.com/talks/uploads/FileUpload/37/98...
       | 
       | It seems like the operating system comes on an SD card (makes
       | upgrades easy, I guess), and the power supply looks like a
       | standard laptop power supply.
        
       | FeistySkink wrote:
       | Some details about the insides would be useful. This is barely a
       | marketing blurb.
       | 
       | Edit: the success story is also thin on details.
        
         | mikko-apo wrote:
         | I disagree, the success story has details that reveal lots on
         | what's going on.
         | 
         | > The team uses software to prototype their instruments before
         | implementing hardware designs. With the basic software platform
         | already functional, developing the wavestate using Compute
         | Module 3 took a fairly modest year
         | 
         | From that I would assume that software is developed on regular
         | PCs and it took a year for them to get the software running on
         | CM3 and hook up the CM3 to the two circuit boards and various
         | systems. Which is super fast.
         | 
         | > The setup has two circuit boards. The main panel board
         | contains all of the user interface elements, including display,
         | buttons, knobs, wheels, and other synth-specific controls,
         | along with MCU microprocessors to support them and communicate
         | with the CM3.
         | 
         | Main board has all the physical buttons, knobs wheels, displays
         | etc and MCUs are used to communicate with CM3
         | 
         | > The other circuit board has subsystems for audio, MIDI, the
         | musical keyboard, and power, plus the socket for the CM3
         | 
         | The 2nd circuit board has D/A converters, midi connectors, keys
         | and power and the CM3.
         | 
         | The CM3 is basically responsible for all the computations on
         | the device. It gets inputs from various sources and outputs
         | constantly digital audio to the DAC, midi to the midi out, data
         | to the display etc.
         | 
         | I guess this would be the part where details would have been
         | nice, but there's probably lots going on. How they ensure low
         | latency function of the synth platform, how does the
         | development process go, how does the CM3 integrate with the
         | various systems. Each of those would be very indepth stuff, but
         | imo the HN relevant part how they sped up the overall
         | development of the platform and that is covered by the article.
         | 
         | Anyways, the cool part is how the three devices use the same
         | hardware, so Korg can basically recycle both hardware designs,
         | components and software from synth to synth. This speeds up
         | development and reduces costs. Super cool.
         | 
         | Comparing that to how synths were made in the 80s, where you
         | had to have a separate board per voice and replicate all the
         | analog components between voices and keep their power usage and
         | heat in control.
         | 
         | Thomann has nice pictures of the synths. The reuse is very
         | obvious:
         | 
         | https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_wavestate.htm
         | 
         | https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_opsix.htm
         | 
         | https://www.thomann.de/fi/korg_modwave.htm
         | 
         | The insides of Yamaha CS-80 from 1977 (weight: 82kg) look a bit
         | different
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_poihkLM5Go
         | 
         | Of course, with modern components a CS-80 clone (Black
         | Corporation Deckard's Dream mk2) fits in to rack format and
         | weighs only 4.5kg:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf0kpidGc4
         | 
         | but the assembly of the DIY kit looks pretty painful:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk-pM2OBU1o
        
       | cammikebrown wrote:
       | It would be cool if they actually mentioned which synths use the
       | Raspberry Pi, but it appears they don't.
        
         | valdiorn wrote:
         | It's the modwave, wavestate and the opsix.
         | 
         | They all share the same core hardware and physical layout and
         | enclosure but have customised front panels.
         | 
         | Actually really good products, well designed, I love the opsix
         | :)
        
           | jscheel wrote:
           | Everything but the keys, right? I've got my opsix right
           | behind me, and I just can't believe how bad the keys are.
           | TBF, it's right above my Moog Matriarch, so that might be a
           | bit of an unfair comparison.
        
             | mortenjorck wrote:
             | This is more or less a meme on music gear forums, and in my
             | view it's a bit overstated. It's no Fatar to be sure, but
             | it's still in line with what I'd expect from a sub-$1k
             | keyboard. The critical thing they got right is the velocity
             | sensitivity: Especially on an FM synth, you need that
             | expressive range, and the Opsix keys deliver there.
        
         | homarp wrote:
         | "In early 2020, Korg R&D announced the wavestate, a successor
         | to its 30-year-old Wavestation and its first instrument to use
         | Raspberry Pi Compute Module 3."
         | 
         | so https://www.korg.com/products/synthesizers/wavestate/
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | Also unusual music related things: Moog
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_synthesizer
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_Inc.
       | 
       | The cousin of the guy who made the Moog synthesizer created that
       | company, which makes all sorts of technical/industrial/defense
       | industry things.
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | Korg also makes their digital and analog ecosystem fairly open at
       | the lower end; analog devices are designed to be easily hackable
       | and they facilitate sideloading of DSP applications; code that
       | runs on this device can also be loaded onto several of their
       | consumer models: https://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/nts_1/
       | 
       | This has a lot to do with why they've been eating Roland's lunch
       | for the last several years, while that latter company keeps
       | trying to convince buyers that completely locked down circuit
       | simulation of classic devices at fancy prices is what the people
       | want.
       | 
       | At the cheaper end of the scale, companies like Sonicware are
       | exploiting commodity-priced microcontrollers for their 12-bit
       | synthesis and processing capabilities. While their own offerings
       | are not open-source, abundant resources exist for anyone
       | interested in processing audio on crunchy chips and you can get
       | into it for about $20 in hardware costs (years of your life not
       | refundable; synthesizers are nerd crack).
        
         | KerrAvon wrote:
         | Korg is really amazing; they're also doing faithful classic
         | analog synth reproductions like the ARP instruments and their
         | own MS-20 line: https://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/
        
         | worldmerge wrote:
         | That's so cool! Thanks for sharing that!
         | 
         | Do you know how they're making the synth sounds on the pi? Like
         | are they going full pure-data/MaxMSP/SuperCollider with it or
         | are they still using discrete sound chips?
        
         | blub wrote:
         | Open source or open synths is a pretty arbitrary category that
         | few are rushing to compete in because most musicians don't care
         | how hackable their instrument is.
         | 
         | According to their financials, Roland are doing fine: profit's
         | down for 2022, but this seems partly related to a very
         | profitable 2021. Can't find any financials for Korg on their
         | website, oddly enough, but when it comes to synths at least
         | they seem to be competing only in the mid (Minilogue vs e.g.
         | Boutiques) and low (volca vs new Aira trio) range. Korg doesn't
         | have any flagships any more and have few products in the
         | DJ/production category. They're apparently also 1/10th of
         | Roland's size...
        
       | Jedd wrote:
       | There's a bunch of people doing some pretty amazing synth builds
       | with the Raspberry Pi -- the Zynthian crew [0] springs to mind.
       | 
       | Basically bring your own USB midi keyboard / controller - these
       | tend to be _cheap_ , but also engender very strong opinions, so
       | there's some distinct advantages to having them as separate
       | components, but with the synth box being much more portable than
       | a laptop or desktop.
       | 
       | As to the Korg Wavestate - on this side of the pond (AU) it has
       | an RRP of A$1500, though street pricing is around A$1000.
       | 
       | [0] https://zynthian.org/
        
       | zxcb1 wrote:
       | Raspberry Pi - Enterprise Edition
        
         | WorldPeas wrote:
         | You'd be surprised how much of your medical data is generated
         | by pis! Many medical OEMs I work with encourage their clients
         | to integrate such chips into their machines. I just can't wait
         | until they're cycled thru so I can play quake 3 on a centrifuge
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | worldmerge wrote:
       | How do you break into the sound world? It looks like a really fun
       | space to be a programmer. I love hardware and tactile stuff.
        
         | ruleforty wrote:
         | I came across the LMN 3: there's a lot to unpack but it might
         | be the most mature project in terms of both hardware and
         | software out there. It's as close to having the right tools,
         | PCBs, etc. for an open source Teenage Engineering OP-1:
         | 
         | https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2022/06/25/the-lmn-3-an-o...
        
         | throw_m239339 wrote:
         | InMusic/Akai/Alesis/Numark are hiring. Just learn C/C++ and
         | JUCE and read a few digital signal processing book, you're good
         | to go.
         | 
         | The market for synthesizers/grooveboxes has literally exploded
         | in the last 10 years.
        
         | type0 wrote:
         | Look at Bela and Electro-smith Daisy, there are a bunch of
         | simple diy synths made with teensy and some minimal components
         | 
         | https://bela.io/ https://www.electro-smith.com/daisy
        
       | monkmartinez wrote:
       | The shortage of Raspberry Pi's is going to be their undoing.
       | Everyone in the circles I travel (3D printing, Hobby CNC, Self-
       | hosting, cyberdeck, plotters, etc.) are looking for replacements.
       | There are quite a few contenders, and more recently lots of folks
       | are grabbing thin clients (then installing Linux).
       | 
       | My thought process; In a silo, the raspberry pi isn't all that
       | spectacular and needs a lot of do-dads/thing-i-majigs for even
       | basic functionality. Power supplies and real HDD/SSD's for Rpi's
       | can be a pain point. There are cheaper and better alternatives
       | imo. What makes the Raspberry Pi so cool is the community and
       | ease of use due to said community effort. If that community
       | coalesce around another platform, the rpi foundation will be in
       | big trouble.
        
         | Uehreka wrote:
         | At the moment some of those competitors may have spare supply
         | because people weren't interested in them before. But once that
         | runs out, I don't see a reason they won't all run into the same
         | problems as the RPi Foundation as they get in line behind them
         | for the limited-available time at the fabs.
        
       | nimbius wrote:
       | the average pi costs about $200 these days (if you can find one)
        
         | wwweston wrote:
         | Yeah, I went looking for one about two months ago and decided
         | it wasn't worth it.
         | 
         | The value calculation has always been a bit iffy vs "let's see
         | what small-factor desktop machines people are dumping in the
         | local classifieds" if what you want is a cheap PC to mess with.
         | That's probably very much true for software instrument /
         | sequencing stuff.
         | 
         | Because of the ecosystem, the value calculation has been better
         | for the Pi if you're building projects that are a small
         | computer built into a larger electronic setup. But at the
         | current price & availability I'm definitely trying to figure
         | out what other single board options are easy enough or
         | considering learning more about the microcontroller space.
        
         | VTimofeenko wrote:
         | Check out rpilocator.com. I was able to get 4 different pis at
         | MSRP over the course of this year.
        
           | jchw wrote:
           | I'm jealous. Every time I see adafruit get restocked, it's
           | all gone less than 10 minutes later. I've basically given up
           | on Raspberry Pi at this point.
        
           | mhzsh wrote:
           | Recently, though? This worked earlier this year, but one
           | vendor had at least 90x RPI4-8B in stock yesterday and they
           | were gone in seconds. rpilocator didn't even see it.
        
             | mindcrime wrote:
             | I've bought 2 or 3 Pi's this year at the regular price,
             | thanks to rpilocator. The most recent was a couple of
             | months ago.
             | 
             | You do have to kinda watch it a bit obsessively if you're
             | really serious about finding one, but it can be done. Or
             | you could also just constantly refresh the page(s) of a
             | couple of vendors that you know to get stock on some
             | regular / semi-regular basis. Adafruit is one, and Elektor
             | seems to get stock now and then as well.
        
         | deathanatos wrote:
         | ... they are _perpetually_ out of stock, even in brick and
         | mortar retail.
         | 
         | Which makes it all the much odder for RPi to write what amounts
         | to a press piece about their hardware. You don't need more
         | marketing, you need the price to not be $[?] due to supply
         | issues.
        
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