[HN Gopher] Medieval ship found in Norway's biggest lake
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Medieval ship found in Norway's biggest lake
Author : mooreds
Score : 211 points
Date : 2022-12-12 14:36 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (sciencenorway.no)
(TXT) w3m dump (sciencenorway.no)
| KingOfCoders wrote:
| We were hiking 700km from Oslo to Trondheim and spent several
| days along the Mjosa. The lake just didn't end, love it.
|
| Thinking there were such undiscovered treasures near, makes you
| wonder what is near what we also don't perceive.
| seanbarry wrote:
| That sounds like an epic hiking trip. Can you share more detail
| about the specific route and accommodation etc? Do you happen
| to have a write up anywhere? Cheers!
| eesmith wrote:
| Likely the pilgrim's trail. Oslo to Trondheim is the most
| popular of St. Olav's Ways.
|
| Gudbrandsdalsleden -
| https://pilegrimsleden.no/en/trails/gudbrandsdalsleden
|
| The eastern route includes a trip on Skibladner, a steamboat
| on the aforementioned Lake Mjosa.
| kmonsen wrote:
| All of western Europe has really well developed pilgrim
| trails. I hiked the coastal one in Portugal a few years ago
| that leads into the main Spanish ones.
| eesmith wrote:
| As I understand it, the Nordic pilgrim trails aren't
| anywhere near as well developed as ones closer to Camino
| de Santiago.
|
| The St. Olav's Ways trails were only (re)established in
| the 1990s, and as I understand it, only a couple thousand
| people do it each year. (My sister and I were talking
| about doing it this last summer, but plans didn't work
| out.)
|
| I also read in Nat Geo this last summer that Italy is
| working on setting up a pilgrimage route along the Appian
| Way. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/article/re
| viving-e...
| kmonsen wrote:
| I think this is true, apologies if I oversold them a bit.
| The Portuguese one I did was also being built so we had
| to take detours at time. Sometimes it was unclear, but at
| the same time there were posters next to the road on how
| it was going to look soon.
| erickhill wrote:
| Odd, but the second image of the sunken ship with the large area
| aft (where the captain's quarters was located) gave me strong
| vibes from Tintin's "The Secret of the Unicorn," which I read as
| a kid a long time ago. It concerned a ship from the 17th century
| with what feels like a similar overall shape. I'm sure that style
| spread across several centuries of ship making...
|
| Strange thing to bubble up.
| nativecoinc wrote:
| > "Mjosa is like a mini-ocean, or a really large fjord," says
| marine archaeologist Oyvind Odegard from NTNU.
|
| I cringe every time people call a lake a fjord.
| hanche wrote:
| Well, he said it "is like" a fjord, not that it is one.
|
| But truth to be told, in some parts of Norway, the word "fjord"
| can refer to a narrow fresh water lake, often with steep sides.
| Moreover, some Norwegian lakes have names ending in -fjord (or
| -fjorden, being the definite form). Randsfjorden and
| Tyrifjorden are two examples.
| Doorstep2077 wrote:
| I'm curious to know what kind of microorganisms survived
| throughout the past several centuries throughout the medieval
| ages to today.
| Doorstep2077 wrote:
| Particularly, I wonder if diseases can exist on particles of
| these ships and have evolved throughout the years.
| macrolime wrote:
| Here's a YouTube video showing a 3D model of the ship made by
| Sonar
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6pS981CbDc
| larsga wrote:
| Possibly medieval. It might be from 1850.
| vidarh wrote:
| 25 years or so ago, I worked on a tiny part of software for
| testing of what I think is a precursor for that mapping
| submersible. I did a two week project for Norwegian Defence
| Research Establishment to write software to let them relay scaled
| down real-time mapping data for debugging from the small boat
| tracking the submersible to land or a nearby bigger ship...
|
| It was limited by wanting it to be cheap, so we used GSM data
| modems to transmit a 2400 bps stream of the map data, using a
| slight variation over z-modem to retransmit blocks on error, and
| code to reconnect and continue the transmission from the last
| successful block if we lost connection.
|
| I'm sure that code was ditched many years ago, as it makes no
| sense with modern hotspots, but it was a fun project to work on,
| and I got to go out on the tracking boat when we tested it.
| larsga wrote:
| Possibly medieval. As the first sentence says, it might be from
| 1850.
| kypro wrote:
| There's a really great museum here in the UK for the Mary Rose
| which was a warship used by King Henry VIII's navy in the early
| 1500s that sank in combat. Only part of the ship remains, but
| many artefacts were found with the ship,
| https://maryrose.org/the-artefacts/1/
|
| While finding the ship is cool enough you have to wonder what
| else might be down there... The artefacts found with the Mary
| Rose give us a huge amount of insight into Tudors and are
| arguably far more valuable than the ship itself.
| Loic wrote:
| With pictures and more details:
|
| https://sciencenorway.no/archaeoloy-medieval-history-ships/s...
| dang wrote:
| Ok, we'll change to that from
| https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/12/world/norway-medieval-
| shipwre.... Thanks!
| pcurve wrote:
| "located at a depth of about 1,350 feet (411 meters) and was
| captured in sonar imagery...The imagery revealed the ship
| measured 33 feet (10 meters) long."
|
| That's a pretty deep lake..
| maria2 wrote:
| That is really deep. Lake Superior's deepest point is only
| 1,332 feet.
| AndrewOMartin wrote:
| Lake Inferior, more like.
| vikingerik wrote:
| The serious answer is that Lake Superior is named not for
| its area or volume, but for its upper altitude / upstream
| position relative to the other lakes.
| antiterra wrote:
| It is! Interestingly, it's only the fourth deepest lake in
| Norway. It's deeper than Lake Superior both in mean and maximum
| depth.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lakes_by_depth
| cgh wrote:
| Cool list, thanks. We were camped near Seton Lake this summer
| as it's somewhat nearby and I had no idea that it's
| apparently the 24th deepest lake in the world. The things you
| learn on here.
| lalalandland wrote:
| A little off topic: Do anybody know of a list of biggest lake
| per country?
| trystero wrote:
| Good use case for a Wikidata query: https://w.wiki/66oN
| fulltimeloser wrote:
| Thanks, I guess. What a bewildering site that was. Its
| certainly a very obtuse and hard to use query tool
| tilt_error wrote:
| No. 24 Lake Tinn is where the German production of heavy
| water was sunk in an operation during WWII.
| moffkalast wrote:
| Turns out that the so named lake is in fact not superior by
| depth.
| gpm wrote:
| If anyone is wondering why it's called that
|
| In the 17th century, the first French explorers approached
| the great inland sea by way of the Ottawa River and Lake
| Huron; they referred to their discovery as le lac superieur
| (the upper lake, i.e. above Lake Huron). Some 17th-century
| Jesuit missionaries referred to it as Lac Tracy (for
| Alexandre de Prouville de Tracy).[16] After taking control
| of the region from the French in the 1760s following their
| defeat in the French and Indian War, the British anglicized
| the lake's name to Superior, "on account of its being
| superior in magnitude to any of the lakes on that vast
| continent".[17]
|
| (wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Superior)
|
| It is still the largest lake by surface area.
|
| While we're at it, Ontario used to be "Upper Canada" (from
| the POV of the Saint Lawrence river) and Quebec "Lower
| Canada". I.e. the naming scheme is even somewhat
| consistent.
| mik1998 wrote:
| Strictly speaking, the Kaspian Sea is the largest lake by
| surface area in the world (by almost 300 000km^2). Lake
| Superior is only the largest freshwater lake.
| dopamean wrote:
| Seriously. That got me curious so I looked it up and the
| deepest lake in the world is in Sibera and it's over a mile
| deep...
| xenospn wrote:
| Yup - Lake Baikal. Holds about 20% of the world's fresh
| water.
| plicense wrote:
| 20% of world's _surface_ fresh water.
| capableweb wrote:
| > Surface water is water located on top of land forming
| terrestrial (inland) waterbodies, and may also be
| referred to as blue water, opposed to the seawater and
| waterbodies like the ocean.
|
| You made it sound like "surface water" is literally just
| counting water close to the surface of the body of water,
| but it's basically any lake/river, so still impressive.
|
| > Lake Baikal is the world's largest freshwater lake by
| volume, containing 22-23% of the world's fresh surface
| water, more than all of the North American Great Lakes
| combined. It is also the world's deepest lake, with a
| maximum depth of 1,642 metres (5,387 feet; 898 fathoms),
| and the world's oldest lake, at 25-30 million years.
| jwilber wrote:
| I don't think they made it sound like that, they just
| used the word, if you don't know the definition it's on
| you?
| deltarholamda wrote:
| They are distinguishing between water located on the
| surface and the water that is located in the hollow at
| the center of the Earth, where King Kong and dinosaurs
| live on to this day.
| grog454 wrote:
| I wonder how they experience gravity down there.
| vkou wrote:
| If you're standing on the inside surface of a sphere with
| a hollow, you should not experience any gravity. It's
| pretty important for supporting King Kong's body-weight,
| normal 1g would be hell on his knee joints.
| CydeWeys wrote:
| In comparison to ground water, which is located in
| aquifers, dirt, caves, etc.
| tpudlik wrote:
| Yeah! Its deepest point is only 10 m shallower than the deepest
| point of the Baltic Sea!
| taude wrote:
| Tangentially related to this article, but if you're ever in
| Sweden, I recommend checking out the Vasa Museum [1]. It's a
| 1600's ship that was pulled off the sea floor.
|
| [1] https://www.vasamuseet.se/en
| deagle50 wrote:
| I saw it last August, it's pretty amazing. It was the most
| heavily armed ship in the world when it set sail, sadly it was
| so imbalanced it sunk within an hour.
| matsemann wrote:
| Think it's one of my favorite museums ever. I thought I was
| "just quickly gonna watch some old boat". Ended up staying
| there for hours, so much interesting. I recommend tagging along
| on the (free) guides. Gives much background and points out so
| many interesting details on the ship.
| belfalas wrote:
| Vasa is almost a must-see recommendation for folks working in
| an engineering/project background. It was such a spectacular
| failure and for reasons that will likely feel all too familiar
| for anyone working in enterprise.
| WalterBright wrote:
| One of the Titanic-era trans-atlantic luxury ships added so
| much marble to the first class deck and cabins that the ship
| was in danger of capsizing. Don't recall what happened to it.
| daveslash wrote:
| Wait, is Vasa the Ship or the Museum? Was the ship or the
| museum the failure?
|
| Edit: Thank you all!
| belfalas wrote:
| The Vasa Museum is all about the ship named Vasa - the ship
| was a fantastical failure, the museum is doing quite well
| as far as I know. :)
|
| (The museum spends a lot of time documenting "how could
| this have gone so wrong?")
| unixhero wrote:
| The ship was a gigantic failure due to serious design
| flaws.
|
| The project to build it was a gigantic failure and caused
| the Wasa's eventual demise.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| The ship sank during its maiden voyage.
| egberts1 wrote:
| right in the harbor!
| whalesalad wrote:
| When I was visiting Sweden a friend of mine took me here and it
| was indeed a super awesome and surreal experience.
| barbarbar wrote:
| I think it is a very good recommendation. But it is worth
| adding that Sweden is a big country.
|
| Edit: spelling
| LarryMullins wrote:
| Eh, it's half the size of British Columbia. If you're
| visiting for more than a few days, it seems reasonable to
| travel across the country to see something interesting.
| baxtr wrote:
| The size of the Equator is zero. But getting around the
| earth requires a lot of time!
| LarryMullins wrote:
| Point taken, but Malmo to Karesuando is only a three day
| drive (assuming a modest pace, one driver, and good
| weather.)
| qwytw wrote:
| > but Malmo to Karesuando is only a three day drive
|
| Which is a lot in Europe (e.g. driving from Warsaw to
| Barcelona would take about the same)
| dendrite9 wrote:
| That makes it seem big, I don't think people realize just
| how far out places like Dease Lake, Dawson Creek and
| Terrace are.
| grammers wrote:
| Thanks, going to Sweden next summer and this sounds amazing!
| metamet wrote:
| Vasa was awesome. I also recommend some of the ferry tours
| out of Stockholm.
|
| I spent three weeks in Stockholm and built a four day trip to
| Odda (Norway) as well, where I flew from Stockholm to Bergen
| and took a bus/ferry to Odda. Awesome chance to get submerged
| in the fjords, and the Trolltunga[1] is only a few miles
| north of Odda.
|
| [1] https://www.visitnorway.com/places-to-go/fjord-
| norway/the-ha...
| Findecanor wrote:
| Trivia: The Vasa served as role-model for "The Flying Dutchman"
| in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies -- also a ship that sunk
| and was risen again.
|
| The ships in the movies were inspired by real-world ships, and
| the team was helped by an expert on tall ships. When given the
| plans for one ship, the expert exclaimed: "This design does not
| look seaworthy. Is it really based on a real ship?". "Yes, it
| is called the Vasa".
| hef19898 wrote:
| Definitly have to go there one day. Also a huge, and well worth
| it, time sink is Oslo's museum island.
| johnohara wrote:
| _> The job was to find possible explosives and ammunition that
| may have been dumped in the lake by an ammunition factory which
| is said to have done so between the 1940s and up until the 70s._
|
| I know the operative word here is "possible," but what kind of
| discussion decides this is the best option for disposing of
| ordinance over a period of thirty years?
| hammock wrote:
| The US did it for much longer off the coast of Southern
| California and other places
| foreigner wrote:
| Also nuclear waste!
| daveslash wrote:
| And DDT! [0]
|
| _"This mission confirms my worst fear: that possibly
| hundreds of thousands of barrels and DDT-laced sediment
| were dumped just 12 miles off our coast," said Feinstein,_
|
| [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26950433
| walthamstow wrote:
| See also: Beaufort's Dyke
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort%27s_Dyke
| MattGaiser wrote:
| The idea that the ocean isn't a endless void only really came
| about in the 1960s and 70s.
| notacop31337 wrote:
| Can't wait for the Black Metal scene to hear about this, good
| albums coming!
| jansan wrote:
| The good thing is that if any country in the world would have the
| capabilities of lifting that ship it would be Norway. But then
| again, maybe that's why they found it in the first place.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| Why is this? Is Norway famed for finding and lifting ships?
| Presumably Norway found it because it's in a lake in Norway?
| yaakov34 wrote:
| It is actually. Norway has a large offshore oil and gas
| industry, and because of this it has a lot of companies that
| specialize in underwater work.
|
| When the Kursk submarine sank in 2000, the Russian navy was
| unable to access it for a long time, and eventually, a
| Norwegian team was asked to attempt a rescue, over some
| objections of the navy.
|
| "Norwegian divers" became something of a meme in Russia. When
| the Ostankino tower caught fire shortly after the Kursk
| incident, the gallows-humor type joke was that some "Nowegian
| climbers" should be invited for the rescue.
| secondcoming wrote:
| It was a Dutch company that raised the Kursk. Maybe the
| employees were Norwegian
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Norway assisted in _rescue_ efforts for the sailors abord
| the _Kursk_ :
|
| <https://web.archive.org/web/20110101161935/http://nucnew
| s.ne...>
|
| The Dutch completed the _recovery_ of the submarine
| itself.
|
| <https://web.archive.org/web/20031122015529/https://www.s
| mit....>
|
| Different roles.
|
| Links via Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russi
| an_submarine_Kursk_(K-141...>
| lastofthemojito wrote:
| Well if they need help they could always ask their neighbor:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)
| throwaway4PP wrote:
| I can't speak to Norway's penultimate ability to find and
| raise shipwrecks, but in general the Nordic countries plus
| the Netherlands have a strong history of shipbuilding. This
| includes technical knowledge and know-how with all things
| related to ships.
|
| In a Eurocentric point of view, the Dutch are probably the
| _most_ famous for their capabilities[0].
|
| [0] https://www.historytoday.com/archive/dutch-shipbuilding-
| gold...
| stareatgoats wrote:
| I'm guessing the parent might be referring to the fact that
| Norway is an outlier regarding government finances [0]. They
| can afford it.
|
| [0] https://data.oecd.org/gga/general-government-financial-
| wealt...
| Alex3917 wrote:
| > The good thing is that if any country in the world would have
| the capabilities of lifting that ship it would be Norway.
|
| AFAIK most of the manufacturers of Atmospheric Diving Suits,
| which presumably you would need to raise this, are actually in
| Canada and the U.S.:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_diving_suit
| [deleted]
| spdustin wrote:
| That was well before their modern practice of applying a large
| barcode to the sides of naval vessels, allowing them to simply,
| ahem, _Scandinavian_.
| jeofken wrote:
| Scan den af i gen
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