[HN Gopher] 1955 Union Pacific EMD E9 - The Last of the Classic ...
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       1955 Union Pacific EMD E9 - The Last of the Classic Diesel
       Streamliners (2012)
        
       Author : Lammy
       Score  : 40 points
       Date   : 2022-12-12 19:02 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.curbsideclassic.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.curbsideclassic.com)
        
       | euroderf wrote:
       | In the days before personal motor cars became common, it must
       | have been wonderful to ride interurbans from place to place.
       | Fast!
        
       | WeylandYutani wrote:
       | The Dutch railway was completely electrified in the 50s back when
       | it was still cheap. The railways had suffered major damage in WW2
       | so it needed investment anyway.
       | 
       | War leads to major infrastructure overhaul. Rebuild it better.
        
       | PLenz wrote:
       | The Fl9 came just a little bit later and ran in regular commuter
       | service into the 2000s
        
       | kvetching wrote:
       | Most don't know this but the US still has passenger trains and it
       | appears it could be the cheapest way to travel across the US in
       | 2022.
       | 
       | https://www.amtrak.com/tickets/departure.html
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | Nobody who wants to get across the country in a reasonable
         | amount of time and on schedule should contemplate Amtrak.
         | 
         | If you want a sightseeing tour, that's another matter, it's
         | great for that.
        
           | 0xffff2 wrote:
           | It was indeed great for seeing the country when I was a
           | teenager. These days, the idea of living out of something
           | similar to a first class airline seat does not appeal and
           | sleepers are outrageously expensive.
        
         | HeXetic wrote:
         | > it could be the cheapest way to travel
         | 
         | Inter-city buses are the cheapest way to travel if you don't
         | own a car. For example a train ticket NYC->Washington DC is
         | over $100. A bus ticket for the same trip is $30.
         | 
         | The train will be more comfortable and possibly faster, though.
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | I traveled coach from CHI(IL) to SAC(CA) with a mountain bike
           | in tow on the Zephyr for $120 at the end of October.
           | 
           | Not aware of anything comparable cost-wise, especially
           | bringing a fully assembled ready to ride mtb along.
           | 
           | Annoyingly however, even a Greyhound bus does the trip faster
           | than the Zephyr. Such is the sad state of passenger rail in
           | the US.
        
             | woodruffw wrote:
             | For what it's worth, it's possible to get a NY -> DC ticket
             | (or vice versa) on the NE regional for about $30. You just
             | need to book sufficiently far in advance (IME, around two
             | months). Usually not a weird time either -- I paid $64 for
             | a round-trip weekend ticket during normal hours (early
             | afternoon both ways).
             | 
             | Source: I've taken that train at least 150 times at this
             | point.
        
       | AnotherGoodName wrote:
       | Diesel locomotives are one of those things where the engine can
       | be well over 50 years old and no one bats an eye since it's just
       | not that unusual nor has the styling changed that much to make it
       | obvious.
       | 
       | These EMD E9's are now used for tourist trains but there's plenty
       | of other diesels pre-dating these that are still just doing their
       | run today. eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa-
       | Sapulpa_Union_Railway is running on diesels from the 1950's, not
       | as a museum piece but just as their expected day to day
       | operations.
       | 
       | It's one of those fun things when you know enough to spot a 70
       | year old locomotive yet the general sentiment from non-buffs is
       | just that that's perfectly in-line with expectations and not
       | interesting.
        
         | dieselgate wrote:
         | Steel is real! Size of the engine and "fleet" maintenance
         | certainly helps with longevity too - my diesel truck is older
         | than I am
        
         | Lammy wrote:
         | > not as a museum piece but just as their expected day to day
         | operations
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escanaba_and_Lake_Superior_Rai...
         | run a 1951 FP7A as well. Gorgeous power even when it's pulling
         | freight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMybdRb1EtA
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | This speaks more to the lack of technological progress in US
         | rail than anything else.
         | 
         | Foreigners from nations where state of the art HSR is
         | commonplace probably _do_ bat an eye upon seeing such things,
         | in the supposedly modern and progressive USA of all places.
        
           | lazide wrote:
           | HSR has nothing to do with efficient pulling of freight?
           | 
           | Similar locomotives are the common the world over.
        
             | pengaru wrote:
             | That's fair, I mistakenly apple-and-oranged this one.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | Chicago Metra was running EMD E9 units in daily service into
         | the 1990s.
        
         | caf wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Shorthaul_Railroad runs
         | early 1950s diesels based on the EMD F-class in mainline
         | service.
        
         | ChuckMcM wrote:
         | There was a joke that went "The only thing that holds its
         | resale value better than electronics test equipment is a diesel
         | electric locomotive." I'm not sure how true that is but the
         | commonality is that they can be maintained to do the same job
         | they were designed to do, as well as they did it when they were
         | sold. The only reason they go down in value is because the jobs
         | aren't there for them any more.
         | 
         | Interestingly the evolution of chips has been much harder on
         | "old" test equipment as equivalents can be made one, two, and
         | sometimes three orders of magnitude more cheaply. As a result a
         | "new" thing which has the same capability but usually takes up
         | much less space and power, can do the job of the "old" thing
         | just as well, and then the old thing loses its value.
        
       | _hao wrote:
       | Beautiful machines! Perfect blend of art/design and engineering!
        
       | Kon-Peki wrote:
       | There must have been some logical reason they didn't win out, but
       | those Burlington Zephyrs were the best looking diesel
       | streamliners. Those Union Pacific streamlines aren't in the same
       | league.
        
         | brudgers wrote:
         | The Burlington Zephyr was a passenger trainset.
         | 
         | Everything was lightweight. Everything was bespoke.
         | 
         | It wasn't a general purpose locomotive and the styling was in
         | part for the marketing potential of aesthetic design.
         | 
         | It was not intended for long haul freight service across
         | deserts filled with mountains.
        
       | sitkack wrote:
       | What magic did it take to get these things moving from a dead
       | stop? I assume the clutches were hydraulic or used a
       | retroencabulator. Diesel electric works so well because it
       | removes the clutch, and the electric motor has maximum torque at
       | zero rpm
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | These locotomotives are diesel-electic. Before that it was
         | steam, which can also apply force/torque at zero RPM.
        
           | sitkack wrote:
           | I believe these locomotives were pure diesel, no electric.
        
             | scrumper wrote:
             | These are diesel electric, with 4 traction motors:
             | 
             | https://www.up.com/heritage/fleet/streamliners/index.htm
             | 
             | Edit: what do you mean by "retroencabulator"? That's a
             | fake/joke thing. Which (as you'll know) is a quasi-
             | electrical device anyway so it's not even the right joke.
             | 
             | I'm ashamed of this comment, truly. I'm sorry, I guess? But
             | it doesn't change the fact that the locomotive in the
             | article is a diesel-electric.
        
         | LarryMullins wrote:
         | I believe they used fluid coupling between the engine and the
         | gearbox.
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | It's kind of amazing to think of the people who saw these changes
       | - from steam to diesel, from props to jets, all this in a
       | relatively short period of time (first flight to landing on the
       | moon was about 60 years!).
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYXEBcZpNQQ
       | 
       | I've seen quite a few _lasts_ (the last shuttle flight, the last
       | 747 rolling off the line, etc) but we do have smart phones and
       | rocket stages that land themselves so there 's that.
        
         | csours wrote:
         | In science fiction they were talking about nuclear powered
         | trains. Its kind of a shame that never happened. Alas, the real
         | world is more complicated than our beautiful stories.
         | 
         | Also, in a way, there are nuclear powered trains, just the
         | power is delivered via electrical lines.
        
           | jabl wrote:
           | There were actually plans for nuclear powered locomotives in
           | the 1950'ies. E.g. the X-12 by Lyle Borst. See e.g. https://b
           | ooks.google.co.uk/books?id=bVMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA78&ot...
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | In a similar way we will eventually have nuclear powered
           | aircraft and cargo ships. Power and heat from nuclear plants
           | on land will be used to manufacture synthetic liquid fuels.
        
             | bryanlarsen wrote:
             | Synthetic fuels need an energy price of about $1/MWh to be
             | competitive. Intermittent solar will be that price in a few
             | years, I doubt that nuclear will ever hit that price.
        
             | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
             | Along the same line of thinking though, they are nuclear
             | powered already. The fossil fuels owe their energy to the
             | sun which is nuclear powered.
             | 
             | I think nuclear powered should be used to something that
             | has a nuclear reactor on board directly supplying power.
        
               | maria2 wrote:
               | Nuclear usually refers to nuclear fission. Fossil fuels
               | are not the product of nuclear fission. Even if they
               | were, saying that things powered by fossil fuels are
               | nuclear powered is just a terrible take.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | If you read the Donald Duck/Uncle Scrooge comics from the
           | early 50s everything is "atomic" or "uranium" - clearly it
           | was a very forward-looking time, and not unreasonably so.
        
         | lettergram wrote:
         | Most of the country didn't have cars in 1910. People born in
         | 1900 saw the world go from horse driven to space travel by
         | their 70s. With antibiotics saving countless lives, clean
         | water, running toilets, air conditioning, heat, ...
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | You could reframe the "lasts" as being the "first" moves toward
         | a greener economy.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Yeah, there's been tremendous advances, but many of them
           | aren't as "in your face" as older ones would have been. The
           | A380 would be up there, but that's even on its way out
           | already.
        
         | tmm wrote:
         | Ha, I came here to post a link to that song. Anyway, here's the
         | Guy Clark version!
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxsTZyIS1ck
         | 
         | Many years ago, the Amtrak station near my house had a
         | pedestrian bridge across the tracks, and in those days it
         | wasn't enclosed like it is now. My mother worked and so I spent
         | most days with my grandfather and we would often go fishing in
         | the park nearby. On the way home we'd stop at the station, walk
         | out on that bridge and wait for one of the trains to come
         | through. I had not yet heard "Texas, 1947" then, but when I do
         | now I'm six years old again, watching the express come
         | screaming up from DC on its way to New York. I never did get to
         | lay a nickel on the track.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Yeah, most people have experienced a train coming to a stop
           | at a station; it's way _WAY_ more impressive when it barrels
           | through without even slowing down.
           | 
           | Someday I want to see live steam like that:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eggYBVAYiI
        
         | floren wrote:
         | There were also parts of the country that saw "the last
         | electric train"... transitioned to diesel! By 1920, the
         | Milwaukee Road was running 645 miles of electrified railroad
         | between Montana and Tacoma, WA (there was a 216 mile stretch
         | they operated on with steam locomotives). They ran it up until
         | the 1970s!
         | 
         | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Milw3_-_...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Road
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | The Milwaukee Road is also a good business school case study
           | on what happens when a company experiences:
           | 
           | a) overburden with debt
           | 
           | b) deferred maintenance spending on physical plant that's
           | pushed further out all the time until it becomes
           | catastrophically bad
        
             | Aloha wrote:
             | They also screwed up the accounting on the pacific
             | extension, and double entered expenses for it - the only
             | profitable part of the road for years was the pacific
             | extension.
        
       | Lammy wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       | - Patent for the earlier slanted-nose locomotive design:
       | https://patents.google.com/patent/USD106918S/en
       | 
       | - Patent for the same but with the protruding headlamp:
       | https://patents.google.com/patent/USD129410S/en
        
         | hakfoo wrote:
         | For more context, the earlier design looks to be the original
         | Balitimore and Ohio "EA" type, he original E-series engine. One
         | remains in a stuffed and mounted state at the B&O museum in
         | Baltimore.
         | 
         | A similar design was used for the Santa Fe's E1A units.
         | 
         | The protruding headlamp design was in the later design E3A,
         | E4A, and E6A types. (The E4 was unique to the Seaboard Air
         | Line, but the E3 and E6 were produced serially for many
         | operators).
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-12 23:00 UTC)