[HN Gopher] Best ecommerce UX practices from mcmaster.com ___________________________________________________________________ Best ecommerce UX practices from mcmaster.com Author : amoopa Score : 248 points Date : 2022-12-15 14:59 UTC (8 hours ago) (HTM) web link (medusajs.com) (TXT) w3m dump (medusajs.com) | [deleted] | password4321 wrote: | Talk about free advertising! | | _Mcmaster.com is the best e-commerce site I 've ever used_ | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32976978 | | (1402 points | 2022-09-25 | 494 comments) | | iancmceachern > _I 'll gladly pay 2, 3, 5, even 10x the price to | get it from McMaster. The service, the CAD models, I have what I | need the next day._ | ckemere wrote: | Unmentioned is the helpful explanation text in some categories, | for example if you search for "compressed air fittings", you get | a small box labeled "How to Identify and Measure Fittings" at the | top of the page that can be expanded. Included in this is a table | of *all* the different kinds of fittings, including measurements. | In my case, I had something that I didn't know what was and this | allowed me to identify it, then narrow my search for compatible | parts. | seltzered_ wrote: | Other discussion mentioned in article: | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32976978 | dieselgate wrote: | I love mcmaster and it's cool to see an article explaining their | website design intent. Recently discovered Digikey and Mouser | last night (via a random HN comment actually) and it was just | what I was looking for (a more electronics focused Mcmaster | basically) - but the websites have a similar filter/taxonomy | which was refreshing to see. No B.S.! I do have some | business/commercial reasons for shopping these vendors (which is | how I'm familiar with mcmaster in the first place) but my life | really started to change for the better when I started leveraging | them for personal projects. | | Had a kick to make biodiesel and mcmaster was still the best | place I could find to buy methanol | | Edit: mcmaster just exudes the essence of "engineering" to me - | it's amazing to be able to find parts by their | size/dimensions/material/finish rather than jumbling together | things that "work". Reminds me of the joke: "a mathmagician | calculates the volume of a ball by integral; a physicist | calculates the volume of a ball by water displacement; an | engineer just looks up the part number in {mcmaster}" | thedangler wrote: | I'm confused about medusajs. It has an API but yet I can't find | anything about other SDK's. Are you locked into only using JS? | olivermrbl wrote: | Medusa is a headless API, so you are free to consume it from | wherever you want whether it be a React-based storefront, a C# | backend, or something third - there's really no limitations. | | But the source code of the open-source project is written in | Node.js, so if you looking to contribute, you are forced to | write JS. | | Re SDKs, there's an official JS SDK and a community-led Flutter | SDK - that I know of. The former can be found in the GitHub | repository here: | https://github.com/medusajs/medusa/tree/master/packages/medu... | | Disclaimer, I am co-author of the project. | thedangler wrote: | Thank you. I'm actually going to be building a B2B app for a | client soon and this will help a lot. | olivermrbl wrote: | Don't hesitate to reach out. We are amid extending our B2B | capabilities, so it would be super interesting to learn | about your client's requirements. And your own. | hprotagonist wrote: | mcmaster, rockauto, digikey, ... | | don't tell anyone, they'll "modernise" them and fuck it all up. | blamazon wrote: | Tip: have a fun car that you buy rockauto parts for? Send them | a photo by email for their magnet series! They do a new one | every month and so they can often oblige you within a few | months. They send you a stack of magnets with your car on them, | and of course there's a chance they'll be included in everyone | else's orders. A few of my cars have appeared on rockauto | magnets and they bring me much joy. | mbauman wrote: | Digikey's empty search for the entire catalog listing in | categories (and then extraordinary filtering tools within | categories) is absolute perfection. | millzlane wrote: | Rockauto sends the wrong parts and list the wrong parts for | certain cars. Not a fan any longer. I now will call around | dealerships some will let you open a personal account with them | and give you a better pricing. Just call the parts departments. | | ULPT: Another thing you can do when you call is just ask "Whats | our price on it?" They will ask who you are with. Just mention | the name of the largest specialty ship matching the brand of | the place you are calling. They almost always have an account. | Now just say you'll come and pay and pickup in person. "I'm | sending the new guy" Now you just got your car part at the MAP | price. | bze12 wrote: | I wrote the original article they're basing this on. I kinda wish | they would've linked my article directly in their post (although | they linked the original HN thread). Especially since this post | basically just reskinned mine for SEO and missed some important | substance IMO. | | https://www.bedelstein.com/post/mcmaster-carr | skilled wrote: | This year's UI/UX trends have been an absolute disaster. Many | brands are now using some kind of an amalgamation of animations + | on-scroll effects that transition into this linear 3D experience. | Replit is a good example of this, even though what they are doing | is quite tame to what I have seen. | | Now, the crazy thing about this trend is that I honestly just | close the page whenever I encounter it. And I am 100% positive | that many other people do this, too. So, unless your brand has | outstanding reputation and you were introduced to their service | through word of mouth, a lot of these bombastic landing pages are | left to rot by themselves. | | And lastly, these pages are supposed to leave you feeling | something, or at the very least - fire up a neuron or two in your | brain because the experience is refreshing. I have not | experienced that a single time. And I bookmark quite a lot of | random pages I am inspired by from a design perspective. | abraae wrote: | > This year's UI/UX trends have been an absolute disaster. Many | brands are now using some kind of an amalgamation of animations | + on-scroll effects that transition into this linear 3D | experience. Replit is a good example of this, even though what | they are doing is quite tame to what I have seen. | | Probably because those trends are set by UI designers sitting | in ivory towers. | | If UI trends were instead set by people who actively used sites | over and over for their day job, they would be far more | appropriate and effective. | analognoise wrote: | I wish I could take a "Mechanical engineering with CAD and | McMaster Carr" class. | | So speaking of - this is probably the best place on the internet | to ask - does anyone know of something like that? | steve76 wrote: | taeric wrote: | I don't know. Fangamer and a few other small inventory sites work | remarkably well for me, as well. | trey-jones wrote: | McMaster-Carr out-Amazons Amazon when it comes to specialty items | that you can't find online anywhere else. For a lot of product | categories they have every conceivable variation that you might | need. Specifically in the past I've used them for electric | relays. I don't know of a brick and mortar locally that has the | selection that I want, and you won't find these on Amazon. Next | stop? McMaster.com. | | One thing that annoyed me recently: | | They don't take Discover. This led to me attempting to pay with | an old Visa debit card which appeared to be accepted at checkout. | In fact, they even shipped my order, and _then_ sent me an email | about my card being declined. It was a small order, but it still | surprised me that they shipped without confirming payment. So I | have an outstanding invoice. Not a huge deal, and as others have | mentioned they do actually answer the phone, and you can talk to | a human being about whatever customer service issue you might | have. | roflyear wrote: | This is a good thing IMO often you need a part right away. | McMaster sends before they worry about you paying for it. They | are a really solid company. I order from them whenever I can. | bombcar wrote: | One thing people overlook with McMaster is that the parts mostly | stick around. If you found it there once, it'll be there again | later, and the same part number. | | How many times have I found something on Amazon, bought it, loved | it, and go to buy another and it's just entirely gone, not even a | suggestion of what a replacement might be. | xal wrote: | Everything you need and highlight here can be done on a basic | Shopify plan and via the liquid templating engine. It would run | super fast, edge deployed globally. | | The problem is that no one wants this, so we don't even have | templates like this anymore. We used to ~10-15y ago and those | would still work perfectly. | gumby wrote: | Unmentioned is the origin of much of this value: | | > McMaster-Carr shoppers don't encounter distractions; you can | see proof of this on the homepage which jumps right into the | action: | | The web site is based on the paper catalogue (book), from layout, | visual interface, and organization. The paper version was | excellent and useful. Instead of trying all sorts of "fun" (for | the designer) web capabilities, they focused on ohw the web could | augment what they were already successfully doing. No redesign | for design's sake. | | Some of the best paper catalogues like McMaster and Sigma had | excellent, customer-centered design, which led to long term | loyalty. Easy to find what you needed, and useful as references, | not just as a place to buy. They have retained that philosophy | into the web world. | | Compare this to, say, Amazon where Amazon's needs are prioritized | over the customers', with the obvious result of reduced loyalty | and the need to shore that up with rewards (prime, discounts, | advertising). | azalemeth wrote: | I wish Amazon was more like McMaster Carr or RS or any of the | good websites. The ability to have filters that are meaningful | (sort by random technical parameters, filter by dimensions or | manufacturer, warranty, lead time, item location and that of | manufacture, as well as price) and datasheets that were | informative world be absolutely fantastic. I'm probably spoilt | by datasheets for chips but God I miss them elsewhere... | ooklala wrote: | I'm surprised you mention RS in the same breath as McMaster-- | their website is awful. Yes, you can put in very detailed | parameters, but if you want a fairly generic part (like a | DPDT 12v relay) you're presented with hundreds of options, | only one of which will be in stock-- which they only tell you | after you add it to your trolley... Given that RS is mostly | 'I need one of this part, tomorrow' the inability to filter | by stock completely ruins the usability of the site. It's bad | enough that I just use Farnell or Rapid--who both let you | filter by stock--despite their sometimes worse selection. | (and about a year or so ago the RS site stored state on the | server side so if you hit the back button, or opened | something in a new window the site would freak out and bring | you back to the homepage) | analog31 wrote: | I learned so much from keeping a copy of the yellow catalog in | the bathroom. Like, how many different kinds of nuts and bolts | and fittings there are. I still remember that stuff when a | colleague is trying to design something. | | In addition to a paper catalog that "just worked," they started | out with a business that just worked, before the Internet came | along. I'd say that Mouser and Digi-Key stand out in that | regard too. About 25 years ago I remember calling McMaster and | ordering a heavy steel machine base. It showed up the next day | on a flat bed truck, and had to be unloaded with the forklift. | It must have been drop shipped from their supplier, meaning | they had already worked out a huge amount of logistics stuff | before ever going online. | divbzero wrote: | I believe the parent is referring to Sigma-Aldrich? | | Here is an example of their search results: | | https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/search/edta | gumby wrote: | Indeed, I was referring to Sigma's and Fisher's old _paper | catalogues_. Mcmaster seems to have done the best at | preserving that value. | hammock wrote: | >Compare this to, say, Amazon where Amazon's needs are | prioritized over the customers' | | I'm not sure that's the whole story. A critical point is that | this is a B2B site. The people shopping here would tend to have | a need in mind that can be solved by finding the exact right | part that meets their specifications. | | By comparison, the typical consumer shopping experience is much | more one of discovery, not need-solution mnatching. Keep in | mind the average HN user is not the typical shopper. You and I | might like to "get in and get out" but so many consumer | shoppers LOVE to go to a place like Target or HomeGoods and | browse around aimlessly, window shop, discover, explore - and | that indicates a far different type of UX than what B2B would | look like. These shoppers value stimulus, sparks of ideas, | reviews and testimonials, and all the other "cruft" that was | removed from McMaster.com | geodel wrote: | > By comparison, the typical consumer shopping experience is | much more one of discovery, not need-solution mnatching. | | Even if I put full fucking detail with brand and model I keep | getting pages and pages of random products with different | "sponsored" brands, model, features and so on. Its clearly | need of Amazon are taking priority over mine. | | > Keep in mind the average HN user is not the typical | shopper. You and I might like to "get in and get out" but so | many consumer shoppers ... | | Yes I love to stores and see various items that I wouldn't | typically buy. I could even go to, say Costco website to see | random "newly arrived seasonal items". | | But on shopping websites when searching for products most | people are not looking to enjoy "incredible joys of | discovery" by being forced to scroll through search results | for things which they haven't even searched for. | | Its purely ads and "marketplace" bullshitery from Amazon and | others. | cjbgkagh wrote: | A critical component of being able to change high rates for | sponsorship is to not show people precisely what they're | looking for. Also, once people find what they're looking | for they stop looking which reduces ad impressions. | | Amazon are just in the exploit stage of the build-exploit | cycle and are making so much money doing it I doubt they'll | stop. | geodel wrote: | True. Founder CEO is out. Incoming one just has to keep | growing ad business and leave Amazon with probably | billion dollar retirement/severance package. After all it | wouldn't be unheard of in 1-2 decades. | novok wrote: | I find when amazon doesn't show what I want when I get | specific, it's because they don't really sell it. When they | do, it matches pretty close or 1:1 fairly quickly. Also | notice they're not good about items that have a lot of | customization, like macbooks that a very specific config or | something like shoes that let you chose 6 different color | combos for various parts. For those speciality things I | find you just need to go to the brand store which creates | custom software for it. Maybe your looking for things they | don't sell or is pretty customizable? | spchampion2 wrote: | > Even if I put full fucking detail with brand and model I | keep getting pages and pages of random products with | different "sponsored" brands, model, features and so on. | Its clearly need of Amazon are taking priority over mine. | | When inside of a real brick and mortar store, have you | walked by one of those displays on the ends of a row that's | selling Pepsi products or Doritos? How do you think those | things got there? They're called end caps, and stores make | a lot of money from brands to put them there because | customers are more likely to see them and purchase | whatever. | | Also, have you noticed that the shelves at stores usually | contain the most well known brands at eye level while the | cheap stuff or weird stuff is usually down low or up high? | That may be store optimization, but more commonly those top | brands pay for that eye-level placement. | | Amazon didn't invent this. They just came up with the | digital equivalent of what stores have been doing for | decades. | geodel wrote: | I can ignore displays and go to right aisle to choose on | products. On Amazon there is no equivalent. If they just | ignore my search request I am stuck with trawling through | irrelevant results. | turtlebits wrote: | Amazon search may have lots of results that I don't care | about, but is generally accurate on the first try. | | The brick and mortar experience is ostensibly 10x worse | than being able to use a search box. Grocery stores and | Home improvement stores are the worst - I probably spend | 80% of my time there trying find where things are, with | the overhead labels generally being useless. | yamtaddle wrote: | Yes, of course end caps are doing the same thing, | prioritizing the store's needs over the shopper's. They | pull the same shit with how they lay out the store, to | make you spend more time in it and travel over more of | it. Which turns out to mean they're not just prioritizing | profit over what's personally best for their shoppers, | but also over _public health_ , when there's serious | infectious disease on the loose--which is all the time, | and especially every Winter, but we got a particularly | memorable lesson in the cost of that sort of thing, | rather recently. | julianlam wrote: | I was (and still am) frustrated with Amazon's practice of | showing me what _they_ think I want, instead of what I | searched for. It violates a basic tenet of the server- | client relationship, serve what the client asked for. | | I was happy to discover that AliExpress didn't do these | shenanigans. You search for an item, it shows matches. | Wonderful -- and then they changed it, so now halfway | through your results, you'll see completely unrelated | items. | | So now it's just a garbage web filled with garbage results. | davnn wrote: | I have made the opposite experience. I enjoy the search | results Amazon provides, but find it incredibly difficult | to find the right product on AliExpress. How do you | navigate the seemingly auto-translated jungle of similar | products on AliExpress? | geodel wrote: | Exactly right. And considering how many here do | _appreciate_ Amazon 's position here, to me, it just | shows Amazon/ e-commerce web sites have conditioned tons | of users to find terrible user experience agreeable. | TeMPOraL wrote: | Wonder how much of that is actually a preference of typical | consumers, and how much it is just being forced on them. | | > _stimulus, sparks of ideas, reviews and testimonials, and | all the other "cruft" that was removed from McMaster.com_ | | In meatspace this is often discussed as customer-abusive | design - overloading senses with shapes, colors, sounds and | smells, confusing and ever-changing shop layout forcing | shoppers to wander and explore, defeating the no.1. normal | people advice for responsible shopping - make a list | beforehand and stick to it. | | I don't think HNers are that much different. We complain | more, because we know more about how the web works, and | realize things could be much better. | geodel wrote: | Great point. | | At this point it is pretty clear Amazon is fattened on | sweet billions from ads. To add insult to injury they also | get to say _We are delighted to offer ten thousand brands | of USB cable in hundreds of colors to suit every personal | style_ | yamtaddle wrote: | > Wonder how much of that is actually a preference of | typical consumers, and how much it is just being forced on | them. | | I can just about guarantee it's _mostly_ the latter. | | My elderly dad was shown how to do a couple things on | Craigslist, years ago, and has been using it without | assistance for years. | | Meanwhile he often has to ask for help with the fucking | _phone app_ on his phone. And every time Google updates it | or he gets a new phone, he has to figure it all out again. | For _no_ benefit, just to be able to do the same shit he | already could. | | Design thrashing and all kinds of slow-downs and animations | and "helpful" pop-ups and crap make things harder on | _everyone_ , it's just that some of us can push past it. It | has a cost, but we become blind to it because we're _so | used_ to putting up with it. A few seconds lost there, a | couple minutes here, but we 've forgotten about it by the | end of the day. For those on the edges it's catastrophic to | their ability to actually use their devices for anything. | MengerSponge wrote: | McMaster is also better for wandering the aisles than Amazon! | Just hop onto a catalog page, and see related item after | item. | | Amazon tries to sell you things that are cross-correlated, so | if you buy tiny resealable bags for your board game | collection, they try to sell you portable precision scales. | dahdum wrote: | > McMaster is also better for wandering the aisles than | Amazon! Just hop onto a catalog page, and see related item | after item. | | It's all fun and games until you get blocked for viewing | too many pages. Been a few years since I needed to use them | but that was always super annoying. | gumby wrote: | Ordinary people are well known to suffer from "choice | fatigue" and overstimulation. In a supermarket though it's | considered a zero sum race between independent players. | | On a web site run by a single entity that need not be the | case. | | > all the other "cruft" that was removed from McMaster.com | | The point of my comment is that crap was not _removed_ but | rather was never introduced in the first place. | ckemere wrote: | Does anyone remember Small Parts? They had an awesome catalog | somewhat akin to McMaster. When Amazon bought them out, for a | year or two, Amazon search maintained the really detailed | category stuff and was approaching McMaster utility for things | like machine screws. But then, like much with Amazon, it died. | | I'm very much confused about why there aren't more Amazon | competitors that do better with this sort of UI stuff and charge | more. At this point, I'm happy to pay a 10% (or maybe even 50%) | tax from McMaster or Digikey because of the time and effort it | saves and the backend customer service if something goes wrong. | When I started my university lab 10 years ago, I was so excited | by what Amazon is doing. At this point, the only reason I still | use them is that its hard to set up sales tax exemptions with all | the small vendors. If someone could automate that process in | checkout, I'd never use Amazon for work... | danuker wrote: | The website speed is also worthy of praise. When I visit | McMaster.com, I get DOMContentLoaded: 348 ms. When I visit | Amazon.com, I get 2.39 SECONDS, and this is with a 10-core | monster of a CPU. | [deleted] | SkyPuncher wrote: | Don't get me wrong, I love McMaster - but I feel like people | attempt to over apply their patterns everywhere else. | | I feel like all of the discussion misses a key point - when you | shop on McMaster, you already have a very detailed idea of what | you're looking for. McMaster becomes rather difficult to use if | you don't know exactly what you're looking for. Many of the | product categories get rolled up as representative products. Many | products have meaningful variations nested deep. It's very hard | to quickly scroll through a list of items to figure out what | might be represent you needs. | | Now, that's not necessarily a problem McMaster should fix. They | cater to the professional market. They cater to people who know | exactly what they want. They can do this because their products | are mostly derived off market standards. | | There's a _very_ good chance that your user base won't be the | same. There's a very good chance that your user base won't know | they need a "Surface-Mount Lift-Off Hinges with Holes made of | stainless with XYZ dimensions". | mauvehaus wrote: | It's because they'll have your order at your door next day for an | extremely reasonable cost of shipping. Nobody excels at pick, | pack, and ship like McMaster-Carr. | | Where they can be a little tough is searching for things you | don't know the exact name for. I needed screws that have a smooth | section to run through a bushing with a fairly tight tolerance. | You know: turns freely but doesn't rattle. I spent hours looking | until I finally found what I was looking for (shoulder screws). | VBprogrammer wrote: | I hate to mention it but this would be a killer feature of a | ChatGPT like search. Imagine being able to describe something | in such vague terms and get a good answer. | DrewADesign wrote: | Yet another tech-focused writer speaking with misguided authority | on design, assuming their usage requirements mirror everyone | else's when their perspective is pretty unique. | | That's not to say that the The McMaster site is in any way bad. | It is visually simple, relatively free from distractions, and | straightforward, and served its target demographic well. It | frustrates me to no end when marketers ( _not designers, | generally_ ) insist on shoving crap in people's faces because | metrics show the hard sell works. | | That said, their design was made for a specific type of shopper | and is not remotely generalizable to everyone else. | | People used to looking at screens of code all day, and those who | know e-commerce platforms inside and out might not miss the | abject lack of visual hierarchy and very obvious visual cues. The | overwhelming majority of users would. | | Also, if the color schema impedes usability, the problem is the | design, not color. Having all of the images in grayscale is great | for selling machine parts or technical equipment... And pretty | much nothing else. Color is an incredibly important part of how | most people choose products. Removing it creates a ton of work | for the majority of users who need it. Trying to find one | particular type of soap you forgot the name of but it has that | green stripe across the label... Forget it. Also, I'm really not | sure why so many people have such a hard time acknowledging that | branding is an important and legitimate way for companies to | communicate about the things they sell, and an important part of | how most shoppers orient themselves in marketplaces. | | Many people shop without knowing exactly what they need, and | displays/carousels/suggestions help people figure it out. That's | why they're there. | | If visual flourish or whimsy impede usability, that's also a | problem with the design and not a problem with visual flourish. | | Most people shop at grocery stores instead of discount clubs, and | discount clubs instead of restaurant supply warehouses. Why? Most | of the products are equivalent or better the further up you go, | dramatically cheaper, and presented in a progressively less | gussied-up and more information-focused buying experience. Most | people in the US have the storage space, too. One big reason is | the look and feel. It's just a more pleasant overall experience. | Seeing the colorful packages on the shelves, having a more | intimate space to shop in with music playing rather than a | utilitarian corrugated metal box. Perusing magazines during | checkout. That's why Piggly Wiggly easily snatched the market out | of the hands of traditional counter service provisioners and | small single-product vendors. As a chef, it is the opposite of | what I need. Purveyors sold me goods using an interface even more | straightforward than McMaster: a printed text list with a place | where I could indicate the quantity I needed. Anything more | complicated would have been an impediment. Regular shoppers | probably wouldn't even consider it. | | So this article should be retitled to express why it has the best | UX for information-only shoppers who know exactly what they want | that are very used to looking at content without dead-obvious | visual hierarchy and don't care how anything looks as long as | their bullet pointed requirements get met. Like it or not, that | doesn't describe the overwhelming majority of shoppers. | intrepidhero wrote: | The article focuses on the UI, which is good, but the number one | reason McMaster is the tops shopping experience (IMHO) is that | they have a rock solid taxonomy. Every single product is | meticulously categorized a dozen different ways, allowing me to | drill down the feature tree to get exactly to the part I want. On | Amazon even the product categories that have a few filters are | hopelessly difficult to navigate. I'm stuck guessing at search | terms and browsing "related" lists. If you want to build an | Amazon killer, you can let UI, price and shipping slide, but nail | your taxonomy and I'm in. | | See also digikey, parts-tree and rock auto. | RajT88 wrote: | The people listing the products are not trying to game the | system with McMaster. | ryloric wrote: | Most underestimate how important laying out a clear map of your | content is. Rather than letting the user build some | incompletely inefficient map inside his head, lay it our | clearly somewhere easily accessible. | | That's why I love websites with sitemaps or when their url | scheme tells me the topology of content clearly. | systems_glitch wrote: | Indeed, one can search by your area's local trade name for an | item and still find it in their catalog, even if no one else in | the country calls it that! | | For an example that's not hyper-local, search "roll pin," which | about half the world uses to describe that particular item. For | a more dramatic example, search "hickey." | chrisjc wrote: | > rock solid taxonomy | | > On Amazon | | Although I have never used McMaster but use Amazon most of the | time, I definitely agree. And it's not even really related to | taxonomy. The amount of disorganized information on Amazon is | frustrating and many times leads me to believe that something | is just fake, drop-shit, subpar quality, etc... There's so much | "WxHxD: 2", "color: yes", "weight: 34.6 inches" that I just end | up buying something else or not at all | kensai wrote: | Does it offer a "I will know it when I see it" function? | Sometimes I have in mind a specific tool or accessory, but not | its specs necessarily. | hedora wrote: | I use Duck Duck Go image search for that. | | At some point deep learning will probably get to the point | where you point a cell phone camera at the doodad, then prompt | "wrench for this" or "missing piece", etc. | kaizo34 wrote: | What would a function like that look like? | projektfu wrote: | Naming things can be very hard. For this, it helps to have the | paper catalog to flip through. | jcrawfordor wrote: | One of the nice things about McMaster in my mind is the way | their website is organized very much like their paper | catalog. It's not as good as the paper catalog for casual | browsing, but it does mean that when you're not quite sure | what you actually need you can "flip through" the website and | have a decent chance of spotting something like it. | | Unfortunately McMaster is a little stingy with their paper | catalog, I think you have to hit a certain $$$ amount on | orders before they send you one. I think that's fair, it's a | pretty hefty book and presumably costs them a meaningful | amount of money per copy. I'm always surprised with U-Line | which now sends me _two_ of each edition of their catalog | when I hardly ever order from them... I think they might be | losing money on me as a customer at this point. | jamincan wrote: | You can ask Uline to have a note added to all your orders | not to pack a catalogue. | hedora wrote: | I can't ethically purchase anything from U Line any more. | Does anyone know of an alternative supplier? | | The U Line family has historically come out against things | ranging from flouridation to Martin Luther King and | currently supports election deniers / anti Semites. They | are the number one donor to the Republican party: | | https://www.propublica.org/article/uline-uihlein-election- | de... | | Their working conditions are unbelievably sexist / | restrictive (similar articles are available from | journalists, if you don't trust glass door): | | https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Employee-Review-Uline- | RVW7... | | E.g.: | | > _Uline is privately owned and therefore does not have any | stockholders to answer to. The dress code is business | professional, which means guys have to wear ties. That in | and of itself is not unheard of, what is unheard of is that | women have to wear knee length skirts and panty hoes during | the winter months and only around Memorial day can they | stop wearing panty hoes. Hey Uline this is 2015 not 1950! | This dress code is a directive from Liz the owner. Yes, | women can wear pant suits but of course they have to match. | I 'm trying to drive home that this place is run like a | cult and it will destroy you if you stay there long | enough._ | jcrawfordor wrote: | I'm in the same boat, in fact I chuckled that the most | recent U-Line catalog has a bit of a political rant from | the founder in the back cover, something about social | justice warriors. Most of what I get from U-Line I buy | from a local business instead these days just for | convenience and because I need relatively small | quantities but... to be honest I think U-Line is their | wholesale supplier. I'm on the hunt for a different way | to get a wide variety of packing materials in relatively | small quantities. | ericwood wrote: | There's many things to love about the design, but the fact that | they use actual anchor tags and override the default behavior | with JS is extremely frustrating and makes opening in a new tab | impossible. When I'm looking for parts I tend to want to open up | several categories or parts across a few tabs and they make it | impossible. Horizontal scrolling is also remapped to scroll | vertically as well, which breaks the trackpad swipe behavior for | going forwards and backwards on MacOS. | OneLeggedCat wrote: | > makes opening in a new tab impossible | | This has been happening to so many commerce sites for the last | several years. It's infuriating. They absolutely hate the idea | that you might want to look at several items at once. | | Anyway, in Firefox I kludge around it by right clicking the tab | I'm on, selecting Duplicate Tab, then clicking the item in that | new tab. Sometimes you gotta duplicate a lot that way, but it | usually works. | wl wrote: | > They absolutely hate the idea that you might want to look | at several items at once. | | B&H's bot detection will trigger on this from time to time. | lh7777 wrote: | Another option in Firefox: right clicking and selecting Open | in new tab works on most (but not all) links in McMaster. | zmgsabst wrote: | What is it that doesn't work? | | I started at the home page and could middle click on both | images and blue text, down to individual items. (Using Chrome | from Linux.) | ericwood wrote: | Oh this is interesting; right click and "open in new tab" | seems to work, but cmd+click (my preferred method) doesn't. | They must have something else going on that interferes with | it, very strange. | recursive wrote: | It all works on my machine. Firefox/Win11. Not sure what's | happening for you. | ericwood wrote: | I'm on MacOS; I think I found the issue in the code they | use for navigation. It's checking for ctrlKey on the | MouseEvent and not MetaKey as well, which is what CMD | maps to on MacOS. I might email them about it. | azdle wrote: | > There's many things to love about the design, but the fact | that they use actual anchor tags and override the default | behavior with JS is extremely frustrating and makes opening in | a new tab impossible. | | I've only ever dabbled in webdev, but I thought this _was_ the | right way to do it? Having an actual anchor tag with an href | that overrides onclick means that your fancy javascripty | partial page load works, but so does middle click and regular | clicking without javascript. Is there some other way that's | even more compatible? | | Middle-clicking everything on mcmaster's site seemed to work | for me in firefox. | ericwood wrote: | They're most of the way to doing it correctly! What's missing | is a few edge cases, such as ensuring the click is happening | without modifier keys. | | This is how react-router handles it: | https://github.com/remix-run/react- | router/blob/main/packages... | ipython wrote: | I'm surprised nobody has mentioned information density yet. I | find the modern practice of adding so much spacing and making the | font size gigantic extremely annoying. Sometimes you need detail- | and it's harder to put together a well designed information dense | way of displaying that detail. Instead it seems everyone decides | to just ignore that detail and make you click everywhere and | scroll all day to find what you need. | swah wrote: | Went to the side again and it accepted both 'a' and '-2' as | quantities... illusion broken. | exhaze wrote: | I think is article is written from an eng/design perspective and | thus fails to address business realities. | | Example: "product pages are way too long" | | Product pages are long because longer pages tend to perform | better at SEO. Furthermore, at least in my experience, longer | product pages don't actually have a significantly negative impact | for on-site conversion rates. | | Sure, maybe a better global maximum exists, and every once in a | while a startup finds it and achieves great success. | | However, that kind of "bet the farm" mentality should be very | intentional, not just based on design best practices, because in | reality, companies live and die by their balance sheet, not by | their UX best practices. | | This got a bit rant'y, but I just wanted to provide this | counterpoint. I'd love to hear what others have to say - I feel | this is such a complex, nuanced topic... | chefandy wrote: | It's the design musings of a non-designer who barely considers | the actual discipline of design, let alone marketing. "This | site suits my immediate needs best it must be best," is as good | of a design practice as a naive non-developer slapping together | some PHP and saying "well it runs great for me on my laptop so | it must run great everywhere else." | | Someone who'd name a potentially customer-facing piece of | software "Medusa" probably isn't considering users needs nearly | as much as they assume. If a non-technical user saw an error | with the word "Medusa" in it pop up on a website they just | handed their credit card info to, even if things go fine, | that's going to generate a lot of anxiety. _On the business | side of things, stuff like that actually matters._ | s-video wrote: | This is what crosses my mind and bugs me whenever I see an | article like this. As much as I hate the Amazon-style pages, I | understand they're like that because that's what their business | is, and that saying everyone should do it like McMaster is | pretty futile. | TeMPOraL wrote: | I don't know how to describe it succinctly, but I find there to | be a stark category difference between what the article talks | about and what you mention. In particular, the former is what I | appreciate as a user, the latter is what I _hate_. | | > _Furthermore, at least in my experience, longer product pages | don't actually have a significantly negative impact for on-site | conversion rates._ | | That's probably because e-commerce stores aren't commodity. The | user is going to convert anyway, even if they hate every minute | of the experience. | mbauman wrote: | > Product pages are long because longer pages tend to perform | better at SEO | | If you own the category, however, folks will go directly to you | instead of Google. I'm not googling for a 8-32 button head | sheet metal screw. | exhaze wrote: | Totally agree. | | But then it's more like brand-driven marketing - people | literally typing your URL into their browser. | | Brands take a long time to build. | | New companies don't have a brand so they kinda have to go at | it along the SEO route, especially in the early days. | newbieuser wrote: | site owners: no more effort is needed for this site. that's | enough, don't bother anymore. | | hn: the most amazing site in the world!! | juddlyon wrote: | One advantage is that they keep the same design for many years so | each time you use it you get better/faster. You know what to | expect. | giantg2 wrote: | I have a gripe about McMaster. | | If I'm looking to buy some 316 stainless bolts, I'd like to see | links to the applicable nuts for that size/material/threads/etc. | For certain sizes, the nut selection can be limited and might not | meet my needs. Then, I have to start over with 304 or something | else. In my most recent case, I had to order some of the | components from a different store. | dsfyu404ed wrote: | My gripe is they do ranges very poorly so you wind up spending | a lot of time specifying an exhaustive set of possible sizes | that may work in order to see all the various options of things | that have some critical feature or dimension you need. | 0cVlTeIATBs wrote: | It is great, but one annoyance is it's pretty easy to buy a small | threaded coupler with one side blank instead of threaded like the | other side--uncommonly needed parts like this will show up in my | searches higher than the more common variant, and it takes | careful reading of the specs to differentiate. | | I like how rockauto puts heart symbols next to the commonly | purchased parts. | 0cVlTeIATBs wrote: | Correction, not higher in my searches. But when browsing the | table-like listing of all 1/2" NPT SS adapters, for instance, I | have found it easy to accidentally buy a 1/2"-blank part | instead of 1/2"-1/2" | rkagerer wrote: | Once you get the basics out of the way (e.g. clean interface) I | personally find one of the biggest usability impacts comes from | the fact the system know their products, and lets you filter by | various properties (dimensions, material, etc) which are detailed | and appropriate for the category. | | I wish Amazon did the same and offered more useful and accurate | filtering. +/- operators would also be great (I know you can | google site:amazon.ca +headset -bluetooth but it doesn't always | work well). | avmich wrote: | The site doesn't work without JavaScript - no graceful | degradation. For this reason alone I wouldn't consider it among | the best. | | With JavaScript it's rather good though. | blamazon wrote: | A huge advantage of McMaster I didn't see enumerated is the 3D | models - for nearly every fastener, and for certain other | products, you can instantly grab a 3D model and bring it right | into your CAD design. As far as I know no one else offers this, | definitely not at the scale McMaster's dataset offers. | | An annoyance of McMaster I didn't see enumerated is how they | don't show you the shipping cost until after transaction is | complete. That's fine for my day job when I'm not paying, but | when I order stuff for home projects I generally would like to | know how much it costs to ship say, an 8 foot piece of steel | tubing, before I click submit order. EDIT: they updated this | apparently! See user Certified's comment below. | Oxidation wrote: | And the file you download is the file you need. You don't have | to mess about with zip files containing one file. | loeg wrote: | They started showing shipping costs a few years ago. It was | also my main complaint. | Robotbeat wrote: | That's it, then. McMaster-Carr is perfect. | | (Too bad my organization's procurement has become completely | screwed up in the last 2-3 years...) | techplex wrote: | I've heard you can contact support to get a shipping quote | before placing your order. | loeg wrote: | Yes, although it's no longer necessary -- shipping costs are | reflected at checkout now. | blamazon wrote: | Their phone support is excellent, I will say. Still, to call | for a ship quote is a bit of a faff that feels intentionally | anachronistic. | dieselgate wrote: | Seriously - how many "large" stores can you just call up | and actually not have to wait on hold to talk to someone | who is helpful, kind, and knowledgeable? Mcmaster is great | at what they do | blamazon wrote: | Heck, forget the phone, I had an extended job once across | the street from the New Jersey McMaster warehouse | (Robbinsville Twnship) and you can go in there to get the | same treatment. We spent A LOT of money on same day | parts. | spinningarrow wrote: | That makes its absence even more strange - presumably then | they should be able to expose that functionality to the user? | [deleted] | hadlock wrote: | Shipping is a Hard Problem, especially when dealing with | large volume (bigger than UPS, usually strapped to a | pallet) objects, and/or very dense objects (cartons of | metal nuts and bolts). You still need to call your freight | person and get a quote directly from the carrier over the | phone. Low density LTL (less than truckload) is a pretty | known quantity and delivering to a known business (like | Walmart warehouses) with a loading dock is easy. Delivering | two pallet loads of high density metal to a single story | engineering office in an office park with no facilities to | service an 18-wheeler (let alone allow one to | enter/maneuver) is another thing entirely. | LeifCarrotson wrote: | > As far as I know no one else offers this, definitely not at | the scale McMaster's dataset offers. | | As an industrial engineer, most of my vendors offer this. I can | get 3D CAD for robot arms, grippers, IO blocks, motors, | cameras, enclosures, valves, cylinders, and just about | everything else that goes in my machines. However, you're right | that these don't have the same scale that McMaster does; | they're selling the huge variety of nuts and bolts that bring | these separate vendors together. | | One of the underrated parts of this kind of CAD offering is | that you can test out 3D printed parts directly from their CAD. | Not sure if you're accurately understanding their otherwise | very helpful documentation on the gear modulus of that thousand | dollar hardened, ground steel rack-and-pinion? Download the | step file and print it in a few bucks of PLA. No, it won't | actually be strong enough to move that 3-ton casting even once, | but you can trivially check that the meshing works as you | expect. | [deleted] | MengerSponge wrote: | Although I've had an engineer fuss at me for using McMaster's | bolt models in a rather complicated assembly. They actually | model the threads and all the little details of the head, | which make for a much larger model. | | *People who don't work in CAD may not get it, but threaded | interfaces are basically modeled with cylinders that overlap | where the threads are engaged. It's funny what gets | represented accurately and what doesn't, but just remember | that the map is not the territory! | johnwalkr wrote: | One thing they offer which is really uncommon is parametric | models instead of geometric models only. It's like getting | the source code instead of only a binary file. So, you can | easily suppress unwanted detail. | daveguy wrote: | > No, it won't actually be strong enough to move that 3-ton | casting even once, but you can trivially check that the | meshing works as you expect. | | This is the opposite of what I have found. I wouldn't use 3D | printed parts for any sort of interfacing / tolerance check | because pla usually prints > 0.2mm out of spec. | | But, maybe you have a better 3d printer or I misunderstood | exactly how you use it. | | Do you have a 3d printer that can made dimensionally accurate | parts? Or would you mind clarifying the use case? | genewitch wrote: | I have one 3d printer that ca. Do dimensionally accurate | parts as long as they're smaller than ~50mm all dimensions. | | With the most fine settings the slicer will do, it's within | 20 microns in all dimensions, and usually it's so accurate | my calipers show no error at all, which puts the error | either under 5 microns or 1 micron, I forget. | | The biggest issue with PLA is it shrinks a bit, so a | perfect print is usually about 102%ish of the drawing size; | the slicer manages all of that, though. | LeifCarrotson wrote: | No, it's typically ~0.4mm out of tolerance. | | Perhaps gear meshing was a bad example requiring higher | tolerances. You'd not be able to set the depth to a | tolerance of a few microns, but you'd know if you were off | by a factor of 2 due to confusion calculating diametral | pitch vs OD. | | We most recently used it to check timing belt | compatibility, whether the belt could be installed over the | pulley using the very limited travel available in the belt | tensioner, or whether we needed a pulley with smaller | flanges or a different way to adjust and change belts. | Trying to figure out in CAD whether you could stretch a | belt over the pulley, or slip the pulley over the shaft | while the belt was pre-installed, is pretty difficult. | Printing it and proving that it was easy cost $2 and | reduced risk a lot. | tbran wrote: | I can also confirm that shipping is calculated before the | transaction is complete, so you'll know what you're paying. | | I'll add that the shipping was super fast for my most recent | order (next day) even though part of it came from 1/3 of the | way across the US. | yardie wrote: | The shipping always killed it for me. I started ordering | fasteners through the office. It's basically the same whether | you order an envelope or a pallet. | [deleted] | Certified wrote: | "An annoyance of McMaster I didn't see enumerated is how they | don't show you the shipping cost until after transaction is | complete." | | I use McMaster daily and can see the shipping cost in two | places when viewing my cart. The lines above the Place Order | button on the top right side of the screen has | | Merchandise ####.## | | Shipping ##.## | | Total $####.## | | In the same bar below that is tax and directly below that you | can click Delivery Method and it also displays the cost for | each delivery speed. Maybe if you are set up with an account | that is Net-30 this is hidden, but it certainly shows up for me | when set to process the transaction by credit card. | blamazon wrote: | You're right and I'm wrong! There it is, plain as day. That's | fascinating. I guess they updated this and I didn't notice. | loeg wrote: | It was fairly recent. | imiric wrote: | It's probably been discussed already, and I'm sure I'll get | counterarguments about it, but I think having color images of | their products wouldn't be a distraction. | | Sure, most of their products are black or metal, and grayscale | works just as well in those cases, but in others, I'd like to use | the millions of colors of my display to get a better sense of | what I'm buying. | | I love everything else about the site, though. | octagons wrote: | This article touches on search a bit, but it doesn't quite | capture how useful I've found its capabilities as a hobbyist. | | For example, I needed to replace a bent gear axle for my lathe | during the height of supply chain issues in the past few years. | The part was proprietary to the vendor, who did not have any | spares on hand and was awaiting an order from their manufacturer | in China. | | The top search results on McMaster for "axle" yielded both axle | stock and pre-fabricated axles that would likely be great | solutions in other scenarios, but ultimately neither of those | categories contained a part that would solve my issue. | | However, third on the list of results was a category for "axle | bolts", which makes sense based on my use of one of those strings | in my search. But "axle bolts" weren't a category of things you | can find by manually navigating the menus to barrow down your | search. Following the link to that category actually presented | you with a list of products under the category of "shoulder | screws". Within these, I found a part that fit the bill for a | temporary fix! | | I found it incredibly useful that it helped me navigate through | industry terms that I wasn't familiar with. It almost seemed akin | to Netflix's highly specific "shadow" categories such as "90s | sitcoms with female leads" or similar. | | Actually (and perhaps it already can), a ChatGPT model that could | help me design projects with specific tolerances by recommending | parts from sources like McMaster would be very useful. | | For example, I want to build a simple hoist with a working | maximum weight of 1 ton. Which grade of steel bolts should I buy | that are most effective for that application? What thickness of | steel square bar do I need? | | There are fairly straightforward ways of calculating what a | material is capable of and modeling its performance using | simulation software, but a passing grade doesn't tell me that my | choice of grade 12.9 bolts is less cost effective than grade 10.9 | bolts, which are significantly cheaper. | the_other wrote: | As soon as the homepage rendered, I felt my whole upper body | relax slightly. What a remarkable experience from a web site. It | was clear, the contrast felt right, the meaning and organisation | were plain and comfortable. Nothing interrupted me, nothing | shouted at me. | | I couldn't find the screws I wanted, tho'. | MobileVet wrote: | Oh McMaster... how I love thee. They pioneered same day delivery | in 2001. | | I worked at Idealab in Pasadena California. We ordered SO much | from them that they would deliver to us (and others in the area) | directly and daily. If you had your order in by 10am (11 if you | were SUPER lucky and there were a lot of orders to process) the | truck would show up at ~2ish. This was 2001... WAY before Amazon | Prime 2 day deliver, let alone same day. It was EPIC to design | something and have the parts show up hours later. | | The other beauty of McMaster is the breadth of their inventory. | You could order a safety vest, a billet of Al, a 4x8 sheet of | plywood and some screws... all from the same place! One of the | software engineers cooked up a web scraper tied to a | randomization engine. It would randomly order $100 worth of | things on our account each day. He was stopped before it was | turned on... but it would have been really fun to see what random | stuff showed up on a daily basis. We spent a few lunches laughing | about the potential boxes that would have shown up. | tbran wrote: | I used to do a lot of metalwork/fabrication in the early 2000s | and ordered from them frequently. Even as a no-name so-and-so, | stuff would be delivered same day or next day at the latest. It | was amazing and they still do it! | morelisp wrote: | You may enjoy Amazon Random Shopper. | | https://randomshopper.tumblr.com/post/35454415921/randomized... | MobileVet wrote: | Brilliant | steve76 wrote: | annoyingnoob wrote: | McMaster is the easiest web site to order from hands down. There | is no friction. | hedora wrote: | It is strange that the article refers to McMaster as a B2B site. | It works just as well for consumers. | jcrawfordor wrote: | McMaster is definitely B2B oriented, but I think one of the | reasons they're much loved is because they do a lot better job | of dealing with individual consumers and small orders than a | lot of B2B. There are sometimes annoying MOQ and sometimes high | shipping fees (they do sell a lot of bulky/heavy/long items), | but for the most part McMaster is still perfectly pleasant to | deal with if you're buying a few bits and pieces for a | household project. This really matters to me: doing some | electrical projects, for example, there are things (like | certain Legrand raceway) that are difficult to buy other than | through electrical distributors that only want to deal on | account and have a fifteen-step process to open one. McMaster | sometimes has a good equivalent and they'll just ship me one! | sebrindom wrote: | The UX practices used on McMaster are most suitable for B2B | sites. | | If you were trying to sell beauty products to consumers with a | landing page like theirs it likely wouldn't perform that well. | You could, however, draw inspiration from McMaster if your | brand was selling the same beauty products wholesale to | retailers. | hedora wrote: | If there were a beauty products web site that was organized | that well, I'd switch to it immediately. | | I've spent more than 3 hours linearly searching local CVS and | Walgreens for basic stuff in the last week, so you've touched | a nerve! | | For any given product category, they now group some stuff by | brand, then function, and other stuff by function, then | brand. | | A given brand or function can be split across a half dozen | such hierarchies. Also, they then slice the inventory by | attractiveness to shoplifters, doubling the already | intractable search problem. Finally, the aisles for a given | type of product are not necessarily contiguous. | | Amazon actually has a landing page like the McMaster one for | beauty products: | | https://www.amazon.com/b?bbn=3760911&rh=n%3A3760911&dc&qid=1. | .. | | Except it is broken: | | - It displays "featured categories" which can be expanded | with "show more", but there is no "show all categories" | button. | | - The first screen is spam, the second screen is content. | More spam (== algoritmic suggestions not based on intent) | until roughly screen 10, | | - At that point, there is a helpful "filter hair care by | ethnicity" table. Since this is their second most important | flow (apparently), let's focus on it. | | Back on screen two, tapping "hair care" drills down to hair | products, but there is no ethnicity filter. Why even have an | ethnicity grouping (and waste scarce landing page space on | it) if it is not discoverable by people shopping for hair | care? Also, how do you filter skin care, cosmetics, etc by | ethnicity? | | What about other facets, such as medical issues (e.g., | sensitive skin or allergic to fragrances)? | unglaublich wrote: | > It works just as well for consumers. | | That is not what it means to be B2B or B2C. | | B2C: optimize profit from consumers. | | B2B: optimize profit from businesses. | | A B2C store has flashy 'modern' design, sparse text, ads, a | blog, logos, customer reviews, pay-later options, a wish list, | discount codes, a newsletter sign-up, up-sells during checkout, | etc. | | Business consumers find that revolting, so it won't work for | them. Consumers on the other hand are easily tempted with | 'discounts' and 'up-sells'. | NegativeK wrote: | It works pretty well for consumers, but McMaster is 100% aimed | at MRO/B2B. The couple of complaint comments here in this | thread make it pretty clear that people don't know that, and | are blaming the website for business choices that have made | McMaster as dominant as they are. | zeusk wrote: | I wouldn't say so, I had to purchase the min qty. of 200 for a | screw set I could only find on there that was available in | reasonable time. | | I made use of 4 and have 196 left over | sokoloff wrote: | It sounds like it worked for you, at least better than all | other options that you had. | roflyear wrote: | Meh you can't exactly get one deck screw at home Depot. | trey-jones wrote: | This might fit into edge cases. I've used McMaster-Carr as a | consumer many times, and though I might get a discount if I | bought a minimum quantity, I've been able to purchase what I | needed in singles each time. I doubt if there's an e-commerce | site out there that will let you purchase and ship 4 screws | for less than what you would pay for 200. Even at brick and | mortar hardware stores you're ripping yourself off by buying | 50 screws instead of 200 (or 1000). I get that you don't need | them all but the price per unit is still astronomical. | hedora wrote: | I bought a bunch of defective keg o-rings that waste CO2 and | emptied a keg on to the floor over night (looking at you: | More Beer!). For the price of one retail kit, I put together | 10 rebuild kits worth of o-rings at McMaster. In that case (5 | hours of researching which $0.05 o-ring to buy), the minimum | quantity was more a feature than a bug. | | I can understand the annoyance for non consumables, like | screws. | mitthrowaway2 wrote: | Would be nice if it had better support for metric. Or even just | to set everything to fractional inches. When I'm just looking for | a metal bar, I hate having to work out how much bigger 13/64" is | than 0.200", and how much bigger that is than 5 mm. | shadeslayer_ wrote: | Funny thing is that the site doesn't even work right now. Kiss of | death and all that.. | jeffreyrogers wrote: | I hate how you can't command click on a link to open a page in a | new tab. I do this all the time when comparing products on other | sites since it makes it easy to switch back and forth between two | similar products. This workflow is completely broken on | McMaster's site. | dev_tty01 wrote: | I agree that's a nuisance. One of the few problems on that | site. On the Mac I use the StopTheMadness extension to kill | that click hijacking. McMaster's site works fine now. | StayTrue wrote: | The best e-commerce site would not insert a redirect when | arriving via Google search results (which breaks the back | button). | StayTrue wrote: | I'll accept the downvotes and say it's not a universal problem. | Upon more research it seems if you do not send a Referrer | header, McMaster inserts a history entry using the history API. | I can make it work/fail by tweaking | network.http.referer.XOriginPolicy. It's interesting that | McMaster is the only site I use in 2022 that has a problem with | it. | sokoloff wrote: | What search term did you use? I just tried "mcmaster 4-40 | screw", clicked on the first link, clicked on the back button, | and was back at the Google SERP. | hedora wrote: | I can't reproduce this in Firefox with Duck Duck Go or Google. | | Could you have clicked a (malicious?) Ad Sense ad? | StayTrue wrote: | Not sure what's going on. I can reproduce in Firefox with DDG | and Google. | | Edit: it only happens for me in Firefox with particularly | locked down settings. It turns out McMaster is not actually | inserting a 3XX redirect, it is happening via the history | API. | | As I updated elsewhere: upon more research it seems if you do | not send a Referrer header, McMaster inserts a history entry | using the history API. I can make it work/fail by tweaking | Firefox network.http.referer.XOriginPolicy. It's interesting | that McMaster is the only site I use in 2022 that has a | problem with it. | simonlc wrote: | It also doesn't ship world wide, even to Canada I made an | order, with no way to see what shipping was and got an email | saying they only ship to commercial or schools. That's a | terrible e-commerce experience. Sites like NCIX were way better | than this. | johnwalkr wrote: | 10+ years ago they used to ship to individuals in Canada, but | I vaguely remember some negative word-of-mouth discussions | about them when individuals got burned by "customs fees" | which was actually companies like UPS ripping off people by | charging unreasonable fees to do customs clearance paperwork. | Mcmaster probably didn't want to deal with that. | | If they do think you're a business (maybe this means someone | at your business has ordered before), they will not only ship | to you but instantly let you use net-30 payment terms | automatically. I had one experience of ordering some parts to | a university in Japan when I was a student, and the parts | were shipped the same day, along with an invoice. I didn't | even have to create a login. [0] | | [0] I wouldn't be surprised if this is no longer true due to | know-your-customer legislation. | trakout wrote: | NCIX doesn't seem to be shipping to anyone these days | 10xDev wrote: | Sure, when you are a supplier of tools this is a great example. | However, to point this as a shining example for all eCommerce | sites is simply misunderstanding the difference in target | audiences and products. For example, a person may visit a site | looking for a gift. To such a customer it helps to have images | and bold titles tell them why a product is worth their attention | and money. Apple goes as far to lay out its specs in a long | presentation with animated 3D models because their customer may | not even understand what all the specs mean or just find it | tedious and move on to see what Google has. One size does not fit | all. | mihaic wrote: | I always see McMaster-Carr praised on HN, but almost never does | it seem to be acknowledged as website that can only exist for | engineers. | | Generalizing anything from it onto the general internet | population seems like thinking about education starting from a | great calculus course: some useful lessons can be learned, but | you do need to acknowledge that the average problem is very | different. | | And in the end we're left with: make a fast website, clean UI, | intuitive flows. | TeMPOraL wrote: | I disagree. Yes, the specific website is for engineers and | manufacturing businesses, but everything discussed here and in | the article applies just as much to any e-commerce store. The | core idea is: the store doesn't waste your time. | | > _And in the end we 're left with: make a fast website, clean | UI, intuitive flows._ | | That is what almost all e-commerce platforms fail at, on top of | abusive, adversarial design. | tobinfekkes wrote: | This is more of a lead-gen ad for Medusa, tagging on the back of | a deservedly-popular HN article. | | The dissonance of this juxtaposition is comical. Are we going to | ignore the elephant in the room? That Medusa's very own site, and | the stores built with it, are the exact opposite of McMaster.com? | If you started with Medusa, you wouldn't end up with | McMaster.com. McMaster.com is as good as it is because it doesn't | use the latest flavor of a bloated JS framework. | | The points made in the article (they have a search bar at the | top, they have sidebar....on the side, a cart page, a checkout | page) are basic ecommerce, and have been for 20+ years. That's | not what differentiates McMaster. | | This comes off as a poor attempt to jump on the McMaster news | cycle than to actually point out things that make it good. | | It's their service, their longevity, their dependability, the | simplicity, the availability, and the specificity that make it | good. They're not good because of their ecommerce and web design | choices. Their ecommerce and web design are good because they | didn't jump on the latest tech fad every other year for the past | 10 years. | jameshart wrote: | Just... astounded that the starting point for a discussion of | e-commerce usability would ever be 'let's go gather some | learnings from "a B2B site that recently made the top of | HackerNews as the best e-commerce site"' | | Are HN users even representative customers of McMaster Carr? Let | alone of any other e-commerce site? | TeMPOraL wrote: | > _Are HN users even representative customers of McMaster Carr? | Let alone of any other e-commerce site?_ | | Why wouldn't they be? Yes, most HN users have some expertise or | occupation in tech, or tech-adjacent fields, but other than | that, HN has a diverse userbase from all around the world and | great many walks of life. | jameshart wrote: | Sure, some HN users are going to be McMaster Carr users. Some | HN users are probably Boeing customers as well, but I | wouldn't trust HN's collective assessment of the procurement | UX for a 787. The users who McMaster Carr is targeting | _peripherally intersect_ with the HN community. And it also | happens to be a community that contains people who are more | likely than the average population to enjoy browsing a parts | catalog for fun. | | I just don't know how much you can conclude generally about | effective e-commerce design from that sample point. | HWR_14 wrote: | They wouldn't be because HN is a self-selected sample of | people who tend to have tech experience, which tends to lend | itself to certain ways of thinking. | | If an ecommerce site depended entirely on looking through | their catalog with SQL commands, I'd imagine most of the HN | community would be able to navigate it (although possibly | unhappy with it). I'd imagine most of the general population | would not be. | TeMPOraL wrote: | Fair enough. | | > _If an ecommerce site depended entirely on looking | through their catalog with SQL commands, I 'd imagine most | of the HN community would be able to navigate it (although | possibly unhappy with it)._ | | I would love it, and I would switch to that site | immediately. | | Every time I have to shop for something on-line these days | I'm thinking about making a scrapper populating an SQLite | database with that site's catalog, because e-commerce UX is | insanely bad, and even a simple SQL database browser would | be an order of magnitude of improvement. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-12-15 23:00 UTC)