[HN Gopher] January 1, 2023 is Public Domain Day: Works from 192...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       January 1, 2023 is Public Domain Day: Works from 1927 are open to
       all
        
       Author : CharlesW
       Score  : 201 points
       Date   : 2022-12-20 20:50 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (web.law.duke.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (web.law.duke.edu)
        
       | santiagobasulto wrote:
       | Excuse my ignorance: does this mean that anybody can "legally"
       | (for example) torrent-download Metropolis? Or that can be a
       | "free" Netflix-alternative created today with movies that are
       | part of the public domain?
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | Broadly, yes.
         | 
         | But there are details you'd want to ask a lawyer about. Things
         | like if you rip one of those movies from a DVD, and that DVD
         | was made more recently, you have to be careful not to include
         | any creative work done more recently - for example an adjusted
         | end credits sequence, coloring, restoration work, or minor re-
         | editing.
        
           | chr-s wrote:
           | You'll often find these old silent movies with a more
           | recently recorded soundtrack which may still be under
           | copyright.
           | 
           | For truly free film, I believe you'd need to scan a print of
           | the film. I'd be interested to know of any efforts to obtain
           | and host truly free archival copies of these old films.
        
         | roflc0ptic wrote:
         | yes, you can now legally torrent metropolis. You can also make
         | derivative works (e.g. you personally could make Metropolis 2:
         | The Reckoning!) without fear of consequence.
        
         | niij wrote:
         | yes
         | 
         | From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain :
         | 
         | > Because those rights have expired, anyone can legally use or
         | reference those works without permission.
        
         | kmeisthax wrote:
         | Yes. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Internet Archive
         | already has torrents of public domain film.
         | 
         | There's also Project Gutenberg and Standard Ebooks for public
         | domain books. Wikimedia Commons has a huge archive of public
         | domain images and sound recordings.
        
           | jonah-archive wrote:
           | We're having a contest to remix public domain material that
           | will be judged at our in-person Public Domain Day party on
           | January 20th! Check it out:
           | http://blog.archive.org/2022/11/30/public-domain-
           | day-2023-re...
        
         | nightpool wrote:
         | Yes and yes (in fact, there are already plenty of websites you
         | can find out there that do that--many of them seem to just be
         | ads-filled scraper sites hotlinking / embedding from
         | archive.org)
        
       | 33955985 wrote:
       | Copyright should be life of the author/s full stop.
        
         | chihuahua wrote:
         | But then we'd get sob stories about how this condemns Walt
         | Disney's great-great-grandchildren to starving in the street.
        
       | ALittleLight wrote:
       | It's absolutely shameful that public domain has been pushed so
       | far back. I say make it ten years max.
        
         | not2b wrote:
         | The Berne Convention (an international agreement) requires at
         | least 50 years of protection, and the US signed it. But 50 is a
         | lot less than 95.
        
           | mod50ack wrote:
           | 50 years of protection after the death of the author.
        
             | twiddling wrote:
             | If AI is the author then what?
        
               | adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
               | Nothing AI created can have copyright under current law.
        
             | not2b wrote:
             | It's 70 in the US now. From the US Copyright Office: "As a
             | general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978,
             | copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus
             | an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a
             | pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright
             | endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first
             | publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its
             | creation, whichever expires first. For works first
             | published prior to 1978, the term will vary depending on
             | several factors."
        
       | Thorentis wrote:
       | Our current copyright is far far too long. 20 years would be far
       | more reasonable. We can talk about side issues all we want, but
       | at the end of the day, copyright is about protecting the ability
       | to generate profit. 20 years is more than enough time to profit
       | from creative works. Are we as a society really saying that 75+
       | years is how much time people ought to be profiting from creative
       | works? An absurd proposition in almost any other industry or
       | pursuit.
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | OTOH, there's a huge amount of content out there that's
         | _formally_ and _legally_ in the public domain already but not
         | really findable /discoverable via detailed cataloging, or
         | easily usable (and reusable) by 21st-c. standards. Zillions of
         | random page scans up on Google Books, Hathitrust and the
         | Internet Archive. If what you genuinely care about is expanding
         | access to the legacy of our intellectual history, the low-
         | hanging fruit really is very low.
         | 
         | Beyond clear cases like ensuring preservation of materials that
         | are obviously at risk, it's kinda hard to argue and lobby for a
         | shorter copyright term when we're collectively ignoring what's
         | long been available for the taking.
        
         | vhiremath4 wrote:
         | All of this IP law was written well before the large-scale
         | adoption of the internet which has greatly accelerated the
         | proliferation of ideas and and largely commoditized ingenuity.
         | It's insane we haven't lowered the current timeline. Some
         | commenters are mentioning the current folks in power who stand
         | to lose a lot pushing back on change. That's probably the most
         | plausible reason I can think of but curious of any others.
        
         | that_guy_iain wrote:
         | Imagine creating something in your 20s and you stop earning off
         | it in your 40s. I think it should be until the death of the
         | creator.
        
           | silisili wrote:
           | As was posited in another comment, if we're encouraging
           | innovation here, that would help the point. Encourage
           | creators to have to create again.
           | 
           | As an aside - I'd imagine for most works, the vast majority
           | of earnings would come from the first 20 years. I mean,
           | people aren't flocking to the theatre to see Titanic anymore,
           | yeah? I'm sure there's some streaming deals and licenses to
           | show and whatnot, but nothing like theatre earnings.
        
         | ww520 wrote:
         | Yes. The copyright duration needs to be shorten.
         | 
         | To grandfather in the existing copyrights, any new ones will
         | have one year shortened every year until the 20 year mark
         | reached. Then all copyright work have 20 years. That's it.
        
         | andirk wrote:
         | Seeing as the USA's ultra affluent crust is grossly crowded
         | with generational wealth, I don't think they'd like the idea of
         | removing any of their profits, however long ago and however
         | void of any of their own toil, regardless of the overall good
         | it would do.
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | > at the end of the day, copyright is about protecting the
         | ability to generate profit
         | 
         | That's what is has turned into, but it was never the point. The
         | point was to promote the creation of new creative works. That's
         | it. The way to do that was making sure that creators had a
         | limited time where they could exclusively profit from their
         | efforts, but the creation or protection of profit was never
         | what copyright was all about.
         | 
         | Today, creating/protecting profit is what it's been abused to
         | accomplish though, often hurting the creation of new works, and
         | most often not even for the benefit of the actual creators.
         | 
         | 20 years was more than enough time for people to profit from
         | their works when worldwide distribution was basically
         | impossible, advertising was a joke compared to what we have
         | today, and it was a massive investment to publish at all. Now
         | you can publish for close to nothing and advertise and
         | distribute worldwide in seconds. 20 years is at least 2x too
         | long. 10 years seems far more reasonable to me.
         | 
         | If we're reworking the system we also need to make sure that
         | DRM doesn't prevent works from being useful after they've been
         | returned to the public domain. That's a consideration they
         | didn't have to worry about when copyright protections were
         | being drafted, but it's increasingly going to lock us out of
         | our own culture.
        
           | judge2020 wrote:
           | Is it possible that the extremely long copyright time still
           | succeeds in promoting the creation of new works? For example,
           | under copyright, you can't take Mickey Mouse, throw
           | sunglasses on him, then re-release all of the existing work,
           | because it's not protected by the fair use clause. However,
           | if you were to create something demonstrably different to the
           | point where it does qualify for fair use, then suddenly
           | you've created new media that you have the copyright for and
           | can do whatever you wish (including sell it; whether or not
           | it's used for commercial purposes is only a factor in fair
           | use determinations, it doesn't instantly disqualify it for
           | fair use).
           | 
           | The only thing the public domain seems to benefit is the
           | ability to redistribute the work without iterating upon it in
           | a way that makes it take on a new meaning.
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | > The only thing the public domain seems to benefit is the
             | ability to redistribute the work without iterating upon it
             | in a way that makes it take on a new meaning.
             | 
             | No... fair use doesn't work like you think it does and it's
             | a only a defense that has to be tested in court where
             | you'll be up against the legal team of a billion dollar
             | media industry that has connections and ties at the highest
             | levels of the justice system
             | 
             | Once something is in the public domain you can use it to
             | create new works that are completely transformative without
             | risking losing everything in a lawsuit.
             | 
             | Vast amounts of new and truly innovative creative works are
             | prevented from being created because of our existing
             | copyright laws. Music is the worst at this where just a
             | couple of notes being too similar to some other song can
             | cause you lose everything. People have lost fortunes just
             | for writing a new and unique song that just happened to be
             | in the same _genre_ as another song.
             | (https://abovethelaw.com/2018/03/blurred-lines-can-you-
             | copy-a...)
             | 
             | Look at what one artist had to do (and pay) to get her film
             | seen by the public at all:
             | https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sita-sings-the-copyright-
             | bl...
             | 
             | If those songs had been fully in the public domain, her
             | amazing and transformative film (which I'd recommend to
             | anyone) would have had no issues at all. How many artists
             | aren't willing or able to go through what she did and just
             | give up? How many musicians are writing songs that will
             | never see the light of day because of fear that some song
             | they've never heard before will be used to take everything
             | from them? They can sign over all their rights to the RIAA
             | and hope that's enough to protect them, or they risk being
             | sued.
             | 
             | The public domain is critical for artists to be free to
             | create entirely new works and build on old ones to create
             | new works as well.
        
             | btdmaster wrote:
             | If fair use meant the same thing as new work, then yes
             | certainly.
             | 
             | For now: https://mimiandeunice.com/2011/07/29/fair-use/
        
           | zqfuz wrote:
           | "making sure that creators had a limited time where they
           | could exclusively profit" sounds like "protection of profit"
           | to me.
        
             | qu4z-2 wrote:
             | Right, but it's the means not the end.
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | That was a means to an end, not the end itself. That's the
             | point. The goal of copyright has always been very clear. It
             | was for encouraging the creation of new works.
        
               | godelski wrote:
               | Done through the means of ensuring that the original
               | artist may profit off of their own hard work and no one
               | else can steal the hard work and profit off it. The abuse
               | you're talking about is the extension of the same
               | mechanism that allows rights owners to profit for much
               | longer periods of time, which actually discourages the
               | creation of new works. This can all be true because there
               | aren't binary solutions and things need nuance.
        
         | ep103 wrote:
         | Its the Mickey Mouse problem. Disney doesn't want Mickey or
         | related works to enter public domain, because it would be a
         | huge knock to their current empire.
         | 
         | Still, this seems rather easily solvable to naive little old
         | me.
         | 
         | 20 year copyright by default, with a 20 year review cycle
         | process an individual/company can apply to to ask for
         | extension, on the condition that they can prove harm to newly
         | generated IP, if the copyright is not-renewed. Still using
         | Mickey Mouse to generate new works of non-derivative IP, and
         | copyright of Mickey Mouse isn't causing damage to any other
         | competing agencies (the way holding IP to a new drug or
         | invention would)? Fine, renew granted.
        
           | clcaev wrote:
           | Or, beyond 28 years, if the work is not released to the
           | public domain, have an annual copyright tax based upon a
           | "fair market" assessment of the property. To keep assessment
           | real, perhaps let there be an auction starting at 2x the
           | taxed value.
        
           | elliekelly wrote:
           | Why should Disney get an infinite copyright? I think
           | copyright should be limited to natural persons. No one
           | involved in the creation of Mickey Mouse is still alive.
           | Imagine if the Brothers Grimm, Inc. had just kept infinitely
           | renewing their copyright claim? Disney wouldn't even exist.
           | Disney is a company that was _built_ upon works in the public
           | domain and now is depriving the rest of the world from the
           | very thing that allowed Disney to flourish in the first
           | place.
        
             | satvikpendem wrote:
             | Then what happens as humans solve aging and no one dies?
             | There should be an age limit regardless of natural or
             | corporate persons.
        
               | dudul wrote:
               | I feel like we can revisit when we reach this point :)
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | >Franz Kafka, Amerika
       | 
       | Looking forward to someone taking AI/ChatGPT and finishing the
       | unfinished book.
        
       | cauthon wrote:
       | Question about how public domain works in the US, specifically
       | with regards to this comment in the original post:
       | 
       | > Here are just a few of the works that will be in the US public
       | domain in 2023. 2 They were supposed to go into the public domain
       | in 2003, after being copyrighted for 75 years. But before this
       | could happen, Congress hit a 20-year pause button and extended
       | their copyright term to 95 years.
       | 
       | Is the "20 year pause button" permanent, i.e. copyright term for
       | all works moving forward will be 95 years? Or will that
       | eventually expire and the term will revert to 75 years?
        
         | not2b wrote:
         | Permanent. The term is 95 years now, unless Congress changes
         | the law. And reducing it would be very difficult legally, with
         | copyright holders suing for their theoretical losses if
         | Congress "deprives" them of 20 years of protection that they
         | now consider their property.
        
           | 1980phipsi wrote:
           | I don't know if those suits would succeed. If Congress gives
           | someone a benefit and then gets rid of it, then you can't sue
           | the government to force them to keep giving it to you.
        
       | mdaniel wrote:
       | > Franklin W. Dixon (pseudonym), The Tower Treasure (the first
       | Hardy Boys book)
       | 
       | I loved those books growing up
        
         | lb1lf wrote:
         | As did I, my father had talked my grandfather into buying them
         | as they were released in Norwegian in the fifties, so I had
         | some fifty books on my shelves and read them all, some several
         | times.
         | 
         | I adored them, but in hindsight: Gawds, how formulaic they
         | were. I bet with some practice, a ghostwriter could probably
         | churn out a Hardy Boys book in a couple of days.
         | 
         | Excellent childhood memories, though - along with Anthony
         | Buckeridge's Jennings books, I spent more time with Hardy Boys
         | books during rainy summers than I care admit.
        
           | twiddling wrote:
           | "I bet with some practice, a ghostwriter could probably churn
           | out a Hardy Boys book in a couple of days."
           | 
           | AI written pulp
        
       | georgeburdell wrote:
       | Steamboat Willie, which was an early (first?) appearance of
       | Mickey Mouse, is 1928 so this next year could be interesting for
       | copyright law
        
       | fjfaase wrote:
       | Please note that this list is for the U.S.A.. If you live in
       | another part of the world, these books might still be
       | copyrighted. For example, in the Netherlands (like most of the
       | EU), it is +70 years, meaning we still have to wait 5 more years.
       | 
       | See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_in_public_domain
        
         | mod50ack wrote:
         | Note that for a number of EU countries, US works are in the
         | public domain once they are PD-US due to the application of the
         | rule of the shorter term.
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | And in other countries, it's really unlikely you'll end up in
           | prison or sued for using something that is both 75 years old
           | and already public domain elsewhere in the world.
        
             | fjfaase wrote:
             | There are a number of books that are based on Winnie-the-
             | Pooh and quoting fragments. For a long time, I have had the
             | idea to write a kind of annotated version of the stories
             | with references to all the books that reference the text.
             | 
             | I understand Disney has the rights to the Winnie-the-Pooh
             | character and that they still might cause trouble for those
             | who publish text from the books in Europe.
        
       | yamtaddle wrote:
       | > Jan 1, 2023 will also be a fine day for film in the public
       | domain, with Metropolis, The Jazz Singer, and Laurel and Hardy's
       | Battle of the Century entering the commons. Also notable: Wings,
       | winner of the first-ever best picture Academy Award; The Lodger,
       | Hitchcock's first thriller; and FW "Nosferatu" Mirnau's Sunrise.
       | 
       |  _Metropolis_ is so influential that I 'd call it a must-watch
       | for... well, basically any fan of popular media of any kind.
       | Film, literature, graphic arts, video games, music(!). Its
       | influence is everywhere.
       | 
       |  _Sunrise_ is one hell of a roller-coaster of a movie. As with
       | anything in the silent era (especially the non-comedy films) it
       | 's a bit of an _acquired taste_ but it 's among the earliest
       | films that I didn't just find interesting or funny, but that
       | really got me on the edge of my seat, several times. It's got
       | some real "yell at the screen" moments :-) I enjoyed it way more
       | than the director's more-iconic _Nosferatu_. Though, for my
       | money, it 's no _M_ or _The Passion of Joan of Arc_ , as silent
       | film dramas go. Still, really good, and I think a lot of critics
       | hold it in far higher regard than I do.
       | 
       | Haven't seen the rest.
       | 
       | > On the literary front, we have Virginia Woolf's To The
       | Lighthouse, AA Milne's Now We Are Six, Hemingway's Men Without
       | Women, Faulkner's Mosquitoes, Christie's The Big Four, Wharton's
       | Twilight Sleep, Hesse's Steppenwolf (in German), Kafka's Amerika
       | (in German), and Proust's Le Temps retrouve (in French).
       | 
       | Damn, what a powerhouse year in literature. And look at that, my
       | favorite novel ( _To the Lighthouse_ ) is about to be public
       | domain!
       | 
       | The Holmes news is awesome, too. Bunch of copyright troll dicks
       | have been making doing anything with Holmes risky for years.
       | Great that everyone can more-easily ignore them.
        
         | slater- wrote:
         | yes, it's true, I keep hearing the people everywhere clamoring
         | for their shot at remaking "The Jazz Singer."
         | 
         | (something something blackface)
        
           | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
           | It was re-made in 1980 with Neil Diamond in the lead role:
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jazz_Singer_(1980_film)
        
         | whycome wrote:
         | Metropolis + AI could result in some cool outputs.
        
           | runarberg wrote:
           | It actually could be kind of interesting to have AI fill in
           | the missing segments. I believe there are only 2 remaining,
           | and we roughly know what is supposed to be there, but not
           | able to restore it because of how few original copies remain.
           | So you should be able to do a supervised learning to
           | interpolate the remaining scenes and be fairly confident that
           | it matches the version that was premiered in 1927.
        
         | grujicd wrote:
         | I disliked Metropolis quite a lot. Maybe it was influential and
         | was probably a gamechanger at a time. But is it good in any way
         | from today's point of view? I'm not talking about effects or
         | scenography which could not technically be better at that era.
         | I'm talking about acting and script which look abysmal to me. I
         | would probably not have this kind of opinion but it's often on
         | some kind of top list and my expectations were high. Maybe I'm
         | missing something? Or is it just touted for historical
         | significance?
         | 
         | It's not that I have a problem with old movies. Casablanca came
         | out only 15 years after Metropolis and is perfect in every way
         | I care about.
        
           | wazoox wrote:
           | Acting in silent movies is entirely different from what came
           | later. That's why most silent stars didn't make it into the
           | "talkie" era.
           | 
           | Just like aliens in 60s movies speak English and are
           | obviously people in disguise, you just have to adhere to the
           | conventions of the time.
           | 
           | Similarly, the ways to make the script go forward are usually
           | quite different from what came later, because of the constant
           | interruption required by text inserts.
           | 
           | Last, the musical score is important. A bad one can make of
           | break a silent film (versions from archive.org and similar
           | sites often have random music instead of a true score).
           | 
           | So you may need to learn the way of the silent movies before
           | really appreciating them (out of slapstick comedy such as
           | Harold Lloyd and Buster Keaton).
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | Silent-era sensibilities are very different from even WWII-
           | era talkies. The field developed whole bunch, very fast. A
           | lot of those films are difficult to appreciate without active
           | effort to acclimatize oneself to them, much the same way lots
           | of people bounce off classical music or jazz (or hip-hop, or
           | heavy metal, or most musical genres, really) until they've
           | had a bit more exposure and learned _how_ to enjoy them.
           | Plus, a lot of them were leaning _really hard_ into one
           | movement or another, and Metropolis is one of those (many)
           | cases, so what it 's _aiming_ to do well isn 't necessarily
           | the same set of things most modern films would aim to do well
           | (and indeed, off the beaten path you can find plenty of
           | modern films that similarly target some particular effect or
           | art movement, which can also take a bit of adjustment to
           | one's expectations to enjoy)
           | 
           | Acting in particular has gone through some serious changes as
           | fashions come and go, and most any style one encounters aside
           | from what's now in-vogue tends to come off as corny. Even
           | Casablanca, which is ahead of its time in many ways (for an
           | American movie, anyway--the US lagged in some film technique
           | developments at the time, compared with other markets)
           | features acting that's less-naturalistic than what's popular
           | now. Also, changes in editing have really made a difference
           | in how performances come across, which is _part_ of why
           | watching a scene being filmed from a behind-the-scenes camera
           | can make the acting seem off or bad--because it 's not being
           | filtered through modern shot-framing and editing.
           | 
           | IMO the comedies suffer the least and remain fairly
           | accessible (no matter when you were born, if you can't laugh
           | at Chaplin and Keaton, there's something wrong with you) but,
           | for most people, approaching the rest of the silent era is
           | more a _project_ than something you can just dip into here
           | and there and expect to have a good time. The field was
           | immature, the whole  "silent" part of it takes some getting
           | used to, and there was a whole lot of art-movement-influenced
           | experimentation going on.
           | 
           | There is, however, a lot of variety in styles in the silent
           | film era, especially in foreign film. If you don't like 20s
           | German expressionist films, try films of the 30s (IMO the
           | silent era got a _lot_ better toward the end), try American
           | films, try French, try Spanish, Russian, stuff like that.
           | Weird absurdist Spanish films that evoke the atmosphere of
           | Monty Python, shocking short films, heart-rending dramas,
           | cheap action schlock, about-the-town documentary or semi-
           | fictional films, heavy-handed allegory--lots of stuff to
           | explore. Plus the comedies, of which many are excellent and
           | most are fairly accessible to a modern audience.
        
           | nix0n wrote:
           | The thing that you're missing is the reappearance in other
           | places of Metropolis's visual style. It's probably easier to
           | see if you're a fan of Art Deco. It might also be easier to
           | see if you watch Tron, which also was influential via visual
           | style (in a different direction and lesser degree than
           | Metropolis).
        
       | kristopolous wrote:
       | Will the relevant YouTube videos that are "blocked in my country
       | on copyright grounds" get unblocked on that day?
       | 
       | Anyone from YouTube know if this is the case?
        
       | dark-star wrote:
       | ...that is, unless Disney can force another extension to
       | Copyright law in the next couple days. I wouldn't be surprised if
       | they did (or tried, at least)
        
         | Gigachad wrote:
         | Tbh it would have been better if we just allowed corporations
         | to continue paying to extend their own copyrights forever and
         | everything that's no longer commercially viable or doesn't have
         | an entity owning it just gets freed quickly.
        
           | efsavage wrote:
           | Yes, they should be able to pay a fee to extend beyond a fair
           | time (~50 years?) based on a declared value of the work. To
           | ensure the declared value is realistic, they then must sell
           | the work to anyone that offers more than the declared value.
        
           | cmeacham98 wrote:
           | Can you explain how this is better? Also, how would we write
           | a law to determine if something is "commercially viable"?
        
             | kmeisthax wrote:
             | The idea is specifically to solve the orphan works problem.
             | 
             | Practically speaking, life+70 is not that far off from
             | perpetual copyright _anyway_. Nobody cares if a book
             | published today will be escheated to the public domain in
             | 2093, and very few works from 1927 are valuable enough to
             | retain copyright today. In fact, it 's so valueless that
             | the vast majority of works still under copyright do not
             | have public documentation of title. The only way to find
             | out who owns these works is to get sued for pirating them.
             | 
             | So the idea is to create some kind of small formality that
             | people have to jump through in order to retain ownership
             | over a work, because _vastly more_ works will hit the
             | public domain even if it means Mickey Mouse will always and
             | forever live in a cramped pet store cage shaped like a
             | circle-C.
             | 
             | How to define "commercially viable" is... complicated. You
             | can either make copyright fully pay-to-play to soak Disney,
             | or you can err on the side of cheap renewals. I've also
             | heard talk of sliding-scales based on taxable value of the
             | property under copyright. I don't think it really matters
             | as long as we have a reasonable process to strip orphan
             | works of their copyright protection.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Mickey Mouse should be under copyright and Mickey Mouse
               | should be taxed to an inch of his nasty rodent life are
               | two separate questions and should be handled as such. A
               | small fee should be fine (much less than the total cost
               | of a patent, say) perhaps with a requirement to keep the
               | work publicly available (print on demand and digital
               | makes this relatively easy).
        
               | dmitryminkovsky wrote:
               | > The only way to find out who owns these works is to get
               | sued for pirating them.
               | 
               | Basically "old time radio" too.
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | The copyright owner determines that. Put some price on
             | renewal and let the owner decide if they want to pay it or
             | not. For the vast majority of content, it's worthless after
             | x years and they will just let it lapse.
             | 
             | We could then shorten copyright down to something like 20
             | years and anything still being sold or used can be renewed
             | while completely obsolete gameboy games become freed.
             | 
             | Even if the fee was something like $10/year, probably the
             | majority of copyrights would not be renewed.
        
             | MarioMan wrote:
             | If the copyright makes more money than it costs to
             | maintain, then it is financially viable. I often see this
             | approach proposed alongside a renewal fee that rises each
             | time it is renewed, so that works will eventually become
             | too expensive to maintain copyright on and thus aren't held
             | in perpetuity.
        
             | LordDragonfang wrote:
             | The law isn't making that determination, the entities
             | paying to indefinitely extend its copyright are (presumably
             | at exponentially increasing rates). If it isn't viable,
             | they don't pay and the copyright lapses.
        
             | richardwhiuk wrote:
             | As in as a company you have to pay to extend copyright on a
             | certain work.
        
           | regulation_d wrote:
           | I strongly disagree. And not just because copyright in
           | perpetuity is unconstitutional. The value in a rich public
           | domain is vastly under-appreciated. The default position is
           | that IP is not protectable by law, because the free exchange
           | of ideas is extremely important to modern society.
           | 
           | Certainly we have carved out exceptions to that default
           | position, but only for very clear and distinct policy
           | reasons. 1. consumer protection (trademark) and 2.
           | incentivizing innovation and expression (patent and
           | copyright).
           | 
           | The idea that my great-great-grandchildren might want to
           | benefit from my having written a book really does not factor
           | into whether I might write a book. If I'm not incentivized by
           | life of the author + 70 years, I would probably not otherwise
           | be incentivized.
           | 
           | Also, corporations don't pay to extend their copyrights.
           | Other than the money Disney pays their lobbyists.
        
         | standardUser wrote:
         | I'm doubting a Republican Congress will go out of its way to
         | support Disney. The fake "culture wars" may yield some
         | unintended benefits.
        
         | jcranmer wrote:
         | Steamboat Willie doesn't go public domain until 2024, so
         | there's technically another year.
         | 
         | Disney is unlikely to attempt to push through another copyright
         | term extension (see https://arstechnica.com/tech-
         | policy/2018/01/hollywood-says-i... for fuller details). The two
         | main reasons are that there is a much more forceful caucus in
         | politics against copyright extension than there was 25 years
         | ago, and the arguments for doing so are weaker (the copyright
         | extension 25 years ago was partially driven by raising
         | copyright term in the US from "life + 50" to "life + 70", in
         | line with European standards).
         | 
         | If one pays careful attention however, one would note that
         | Disney has, over the past few years, started using a clip from
         | Steamboat Willie more aggressively in its films, which has led
         | many to wonder if they're planning on taking down anyone who
         | distributes Steamboat Willie on the basis of trademark
         | violations instead.
        
           | kneebonian wrote:
           | I've noticed them putting steam boat willie in all of the
           | credits, at the same time things were going into the public
           | domain, I had always assumed that was the game plan.
           | 
           | Make steamboat willie trademark not copyright, and the laws
           | become a lot more flexible around that.
        
         | yieldcrv wrote:
         | They have said they wont because people notice and care now.
         | 
         | Thats an interest way of interacting in society. I want that
         | power.
        
         | Sunspark wrote:
         | No extension in the next couple days, but there will be another
         | 20+ year extension purchased within the next 11 years. Why? To
         | make sure 1938 doesn't go PD.
         | 
         | I will leave it up to the reader as an exercise to determine
         | what is special about 1938.
        
           | daemoens wrote:
           | What's special about 1938?
        
             | leviathant wrote:
             | I'm going to guess the reference here is Superman
        
           | andirk wrote:
           | When Itchy & Scratchy teamed up for the war effort [0]?
           | Documents on Prescott Bush, grandfather of Bush Jr, who
           | happily sold steel to the Nazis and created the current Bush
           | family pile [1]?
           | 
           | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vhL6QsPGac
           | 
           | [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondw
           | orl...
        
           | ebiester wrote:
           | Is the start of the golden age of comic books enough? I'm
           | honestly not convinced.
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | They stopped doing that a while ago. They realized it didn't
         | matter and was more beneficial for them so they can scoop up
         | more public domain and make more movies out of it.
        
           | phist_mcgee wrote:
           | Kids don't care about Mickey they care about Rocket Raccoon.
        
           | jonny_eh wrote:
           | It's incredible the amount of damage they've done in the
           | meantime. If only they can rollback the changes they, and
           | their lackeys, pushed through.
        
           | MaxBarraclough wrote:
           | > They realized it didn't matter and was more beneficial for
           | them so they can scoop up more public domain and make more
           | movies out of it.
           | 
           | I don't have anything concrete to back this up, but it seems
           | more likely to me that they just don't see much potential
           | revenue in content from the 1920's, so they see little to be
           | gained from further spending on copyright-extension lobbying.
           | 
           | Put another way, they've already succeeded. Copyright terms
           | aren't actually unending, but in profit terms (or practical
           | terms more broadly) the difference is minimal.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related (but we moved most comments hither):
       | 
       |  _2023 's public domain is a banger_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34071163
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | So in theory every streaming service could put all these movies
       | on their service, right?
       | 
       | And I could sell a box set of "top movies of 1927"?
        
         | cmeacham98 wrote:
         | In the US, yes (not willing to make a claim about IP laws in
         | every country).
         | 
         | Although I'm not sure how big the market will be as it will
         | also be completely legal to share and download them on internet
         | for free.
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | Yes. But they are black-and-white and silent, which severely
         | limits the audience these days.
         | 
         | Some of these movies have circulated with more recent
         | soundtracks, and those are off limits. In particular there's a
         | somewhat infamous 1984 version of "Metropolis" with music
         | produced by Giorgio Moroder and Freddie Mercury. That won't be
         | in the public domain until 2079...
        
           | not2b wrote:
           | A streaming service could hire musicians to do a new score
           | for public domain silent movies, they would then have the
           | exclusive right to distribute the combined work.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | Yes, yes.
        
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