[HN Gopher] Philadelphia Phreakers installing free payphone
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Philadelphia Phreakers installing free payphone
Author : DoktorDelta
Score : 189 points
Date : 2022-12-21 15:26 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nbcphiladelphia.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nbcphiladelphia.com)
| theonething wrote:
| anyone remember the needles in coin return slot scare growing up?
| We didn't the internet to check if it was real so I'd always be a
| little paranoid when getting my coins back.
|
| https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/slots-of-fun/
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| My big worry with the disappearance of public pay-phones is for
| the homeless and other poor. However, I recently learned that
| there are often programs to assist them with getting cellular
| devices. All in all, a mobile device is probably much more useful
| than a public payphone (as long as they can keep it charged). I'm
| a little under-educated on what the actual reality of this
| situation is, tbh.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Critics often call the free phones _Obama phones_
| pessimizer wrote:
| Supporters often call the free phones "Obama phones" too.
| Just like Obamacare started off as a slur towards ACA, the
| party saw Obama's name as a way to link a benefit to
| Democrats and detourned it. It's like the Bush tax rebate or
| the Trump stimulus.
| zikduruqe wrote:
| Which Lifeline phones started in 1985 under Regan.
|
| https://www.fcc.gov/general/lifeline-program-low-income-
| cons...
|
| But it's easy to blame Obama.
| notinfuriated wrote:
| It was a relatively memorable moment of the 2012 election.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio
|
| I had a note in this comment on fraud, but it looks like
| there was probably a consistent pattern of waste/fraud for
| a long time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Servic
| e_Fund#Waste_a...). There were some proven accusations of
| fraud in 2012 as well:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY4cy95VFes
| [deleted]
| zikduruqe wrote:
| Obama Phone Lady as evidence of fraud.... laughable.
|
| I used to sell Lifeline phones into certain carriers back
| in 2009 - 2012 when I worked with various phone OEMs. I
| can see where some phone resellers could create some
| fraud.
|
| But the government is not involved. They merely subsidize
| the program.
| notinfuriated wrote:
| Just to be clear, I was not claiming that Obama phone
| lady was evidence of fraud. I was only pointing out it
| was a memorable moment during the 2012 election because
| that clip was replayed ad nauseam at the time. So I think
| people call them "Obama phones" because of a fairly
| successful campaign at pinning their existence or
| popularity on Barack Obama (where this woman credited her
| free phone to Obama), and this particular video clip was
| shown quite a bit at the time.
|
| The fraud remark in my comment was about the other news
| video I linked and also a link to wikipedia. Free phones
| and phone plans are really, really low on my list of
| things I care about in terms of examples of bad
| governance in the US.
| tomschlick wrote:
| Around the time Obama became president is when they started
| giving cell phones from the program instead of just
| subsidizing landline phones. It happened before he was
| president but given the recession that took place while he
| was president it was regarded as the Obama phone because he
| was president when the majority of people got them.
| bittercynic wrote:
| Such a strange twist of language.
|
| As someone who thinks free phones to those who need one is a
| good thing, and thinks Obama was generally a pretty good
| dude, I wouldn't automatically ready negative sentiment into
| those words.
| Daltzn wrote:
| Every hospital I have ever been have a free phone in the ED
| waiting room. It's common to see a homeless person using it.
| Has a list of numbers for shelters, taxis etc posted along side
| it.
| mzs wrote:
| Their cellphones tend to get stolen 2-4 times a year.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| It is a helpful program. With minimal paperwork, you get a
| device with calling and data service. The phone hardware ranges
| from basic to decent. They typically have much less crapware
| installed than your average store phone.
|
| Several challenges with the program exist, compared to
| payphones.
|
| a) It is difficult to hold on to anything when you live on the
| street, even without any bad habits. Without a place to keep
| your things, they regularly get lost, stolen, etc. If you have
| a habit, you may also be tempted to pawn the device for a few
| bucks.
|
| b) The paperwork and process is minimal, but is still a
| barrier. For example, some programs do not give you a device on
| the spot, but it must be mailed to you. I had mine mailed to a
| post office and it got lost. I never received the device, but I
| was marked as having ordered one in the system. From that point
| on, even years later, I could never qualify for another one.
|
| Compare this to a stationary device that's always there that
| doesn't have to be maintained by you, and the advantages are
| clear.
|
| New York has a pretty good system of LinkNYC kiosks, which
| provide basic calling service, and are maintained reasonably
| well (about half work at any given time.) They were better when
| they allowed browsing the web, but that functionality was taken
| away after Reddit raised a stink about someone browsing porn on
| them.
| sam345 wrote:
| Reasonably well = half work?
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| they get a lot of use and abuse, so I imagine it's
| difficult to keep up with repairs.
| intrasight wrote:
| Homeless and poor can get free phones in many municipalities.
| I'm a technical consultant for the BigBurg app
| [http://www.informingdesign.com/bigburgh] and getting free
| phones into people's hands in part of the project. It actually
| saves the municipalities money - which makes sense in our
| digital society. They are able to deliver social services more
| directly and at lower cost.
|
| Hopefully those free phone booths also have a USB port for
| charging.
| shagie wrote:
| ... that then get stolen (and make it difficult to use for
| 2FA).
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33120534
| ipdashc wrote:
| I'm somewhat acquainted with one of the guys running this effort,
| and it's really been amazing to see it go from "unknown niche
| hobby project" to "all over the news" practically overnight.
| Nobody is sure why the media seized on it so much, but in the
| course of a week or two, it went from completely obscure, to
| being reported on by a few Internet-based techy/nerdy media
| outlets, to being talked about by the mainstream news (NBC!). I
| guess people are more interested in payphones than expected.
|
| Though it does bum me out that a typical comment section on the
| mainstream news articles is 30% "why is the government spending
| money on this? Lower my taxes!!" It's a completely volunteer
| project guys, there is no government money involved... ah well.
| DannyBee wrote:
| Do you know why does he pay per minute?
|
| Can't he hook it up to ooma or something that only charges the
| monthly regulatory fees?
| mmcgaha wrote:
| I was thinking stick in a gsm module with $7/month airvoice
| sim.
|
| https://www.airvoicewireless.com/plan/monthy-plan
| mandelbrotwurst wrote:
| Most likely he's not and the article contains an inaccuracy.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| This is all good, hack the planet and all that, but meanwhile
| there are Link NYC boxes with free calls all over NYC no?
| (debatable quality etc but still, they're there)
| c22 wrote:
| The gas station near my house still runs a COCOT. I don't know
| what to tell you.
| aposm wrote:
| However those are well-documented to be data-harvesting devices
| placed by a for-profit company, despite receiving government
| money as well. PhilTel is a non-profit volunteer organization
| run by community members.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| Other discussion on this earlier this month:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33851030
| dragonsky67 wrote:
| In Australia a couple of years ago Telstra, which I believe is
| required by the government to provide public phones. They have
| discovered that it's cheaper to just provide the phones free
| rather than have to continuously repair them after people try to
| jack the coin hopper or deal with support for refunding card
| payments when the payment succeeds but the call does not go
| through.
|
| https://exchange.telstra.com.au/why-were-making-payphones-fr...
| SQueeeeeL wrote:
| 'Something something, tragedy of the commons. Some veiled
| comment about "undesirables" using the phones all the time.
| There's no such thing as a free lunch, this is a perversion of
| all known theory to not force a profit.'
| ourmandave wrote:
| Reminded me of 2600 magazine's reader pics of payphones from
| around the world.
|
| I haven't looked at a copy in forever so I don't know if it's
| still a thing.
| tux wrote:
| Actually 2600 is still alive and well, they sell 2600 Magazine:
| The Hacker Quarterly @ Amazon. [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2600:_The_Hacker_Quarterly
| arthurjj wrote:
| Their podcast, off the hook is weekly and in the same spirit.
| https://www.2600.com/offthehook/
| knewter wrote:
| It is and it is still why I go to the magazine stand if I'm in
| a bookstore
| Eleison23 wrote:
| c22 wrote:
| See also: futel
|
| http://futel.net/
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32118936
| giantg2 wrote:
| mikestew wrote:
| Why disagree? I don't, necessarily. But you took a side comment
| and turned it into a very off-topic topic of discussion that
| has nothing to do with TFA. Have a downvote.
| [deleted]
| giantg2 wrote:
| schoen wrote:
| You replied to a complaint about an off-topic post elsewhere
| with a further discussion of the substance of the off-topic
| issue. So other HN readers were probably not eager to have you
| continue that discussion in this thread.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Why is the off-topic comment I was replying to the top
| comment for the submission? I guess I just suck. Thanks.
| [deleted]
| vips7L wrote:
| I wonder how long it will take before my fellow Philadelphians
| smash these things.
| dylan604 wrote:
| What? Are you saying the City of Brotherly Love is truly closer
| to the City of Brotherly Shove?
| xattt wrote:
| Tangential, but what would be the most expensive outgoing call
| destination from mainland North America, sat phones excluded?
| lormayna wrote:
| Many years ago I worked for a VOIP provider. The most expensive
| frauds that we detected was calling special service in remote
| place of the world like Tristan de Cunha, Nauru, Falkland or
| Buthan. Something like 50$ for minutes and 10$ at the response.
| willcipriano wrote:
| Not a destination but my guess is one of these would be the
| most expensive call (I think some people here are young enough
| to not be aware of these):
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premium-rate_telephone_numbe...
| sbarre wrote:
| North Korea I believe.. then all the little Pacific islands.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| For a while there was a lot of in-cahoots fraud where a
| country's telecom would make seemingly arbitrary numbers a
| premium rate $$$/min number and some uncareful VoIP providers
| got hosed.
|
| https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0919/058.html?sh=3e7f98cc...
| elecush wrote:
| really great to consider what the younger generations will
| surmise
| thrownaway561 wrote:
| I applaud this in so many ways... however the realist in me knows
| that, like most pay phones, this thing will be vandalized in a
| matter of weeks.
| geocrasher wrote:
| I'm not sure what surprised me more: Seeing a guy installing free
| payphones (a great idea!) or seeing the term "Phreaker" on HN :D
| myvoiceismypass wrote:
| The article linked does not mention it, but these phones are
| connected to PhreakNet also: https://portal.phreaknet.org/
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| Wow! I... do not understand what this is. Can phreaknet make
| and receive calls from the general public phone network?
| tecleandor wrote:
| Nope, as I understand is a parallel network.
|
| https://portal.phreaknet.org/faq
| Quarrelsome wrote:
| > seeing the term "Phreaker" on HN
|
| its not _that_ uncommon is it? Given that phreakers are like
| the genesis of hackers.
| _joel wrote:
| Not really, I recall this being posted when it came out which
| has a good phreaking lineage :)
| http://www.phrack.org/issues/70/1.html
| intelkishan wrote:
| Phreakers were the second generation of hackers. The original
| hackers were a collective of students in MIT
| _joel wrote:
| Phreaking is phone comms, which is a subset of
| hacking/cracking imho
| nbk_2000 wrote:
| This is how I've always heard it categorized, since at
| least the early 90's.
| manv1 wrote:
| No, phreakers have been around since the Bell system.
| That's Capt. Crunch etc.
| m4jor wrote:
| I met Capt. Crunch at DEF CON 5-6 years ago.
|
| I was so excited and even got a picture with him. Then I
| found out about his dark and sketchy past from others
| when I told people about it.
|
| tl;dr = hes basically a sexual predator/creeper w young
| boys.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| I will defend Capt. Crunch a bit.. no, not 'predator'
| thats a legal accusation. AutoDesk brought a fully
| configured Sun to his messy desk in the 1980s, and "the
| workout" was sort of repressed sexual behavior yes, but
| not 'predator' .. no way.. How many people here are
| active kinky ? loud about it too.. Its a complicated
| story.. no CANCEL on Capt Crunch, please
|
| If you want to hate on someone in a cowardly anonymous
| way, I would go for that ReiserFS guy, who lived in the
| same area at the same time
| squarefoot wrote:
| Parent is probably referring to the Tech Model Railroad
| Club at MIT, which is considered the first recognized
| group of hackers and predates Capt. Crunch by at least a
| decade.
| theCrowing wrote:
| we still phreaking.
| CivBase wrote:
| Does anyone still make phone books? I can count the number of
| phone numbers I have memorized on one hand. Without access to a
| phone number registry of some sort, I think these would have
| extremely limited value to most people.
|
| It's a neat project though.
| binarymax wrote:
| Looks like white pages can be ordered for free[0], but yellow
| pages ceased print copy in 2017.
|
| [0] https://www.verizon.com/about/our-company/white-pages
| _joel wrote:
| In the UK they were still about up until recently but became
| smaller and smaller. I've not had a landline for years now so
| not sure if they're still released now. I'd imagine not, but
| who knows.
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| >I think these would have extremely limited value to most
| people.
|
| Quite recently in Australia, every single phone booth in the
| country was made free to use.
|
| When asked why this was the case, the spokesperson for Telstra
| (the company that owned them) explained that one of the major
| users of phone booths were people escaping from domestic
| violence situations. Apparently it was very common for abusive
| partners to control phone access (and access to cash, too,
| hence why they made the network free).
|
| Point is, don't underestimate the importance of obsolete
| services!
| jessaustin wrote:
| Seems to indicate that Telstra is better than every single
| American phone company?
| twobitshifter wrote:
| I see what you're saying but if you don't have a phone, you'll
| remember the numbers you need or at least write them down
| somewhere and create your own registry. If you don't have that
| there's always 411
| tclancy wrote:
| Sadly, they stopped giving them out around here almost a decade
| ago. Made me sad, because we got them in early October and
| every year I would hang onto it until near the end of the night
| on Halloween when some over-aged kid doing the ironic tour
| called out "Trick or treat" and I'd say "trick" and drop it in
| their pillowcase.
| sbarre wrote:
| When I was younger some of my friends who had very limited
| income could often not afford to top up their cell phone
| minutes, but still had their phone with an address book full of
| numbers in their pocket. I would lend them my phone and they'd
| call someone from the list in their phone using my phone.
|
| I feel like someone who relies on free or community phones
| would have a similar book of numbers that are meaningful to
| them.
|
| Of course if you're looking to call somewhere new, then that's
| definitely an issue.
| c22 wrote:
| When I was a kid I had a DTMF tone-dialer which was a small
| device with all my numbers in it and a small speaker in a
| rubber cup. I could select a number from the list then hold
| the speaker against the receiver of a (hardwired) telephone
| to dial the number. I actually had two of these, the other of
| which I modified to simulate the signalling sound of dimes
| and quarters dropping into a payphone.
| weberer wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-1-1
| graupel wrote:
| Wait so this is a real....phone? Using old-school twisted pair
| phone lines? If it has a monthly cost that scales with use it
| must, but it seems like making this IP would be more practical,
| if a little less fun?
| c22 wrote:
| No, they're using analog telephone adapters and Asterisk. [0]
|
| [0]: https://philtel.org/2022/12/15/asterisk-overview.html
| tecleandor wrote:
| Time really flies! I still remember when my friends from the
| Patio Maravillas social center in Madrid set up one in this
| style... in 2009 ! At the time and in the beginning, it was a
| bunch of countries only, as VoIP gateways weren't as popular as
| now.
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20090402170754/http://www.patiom...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_Maravillas
| kepler1 wrote:
| How long before someone with less-than-good intentions walks up
| and starts using this phone in ways that the creators didn't
| intend, and it has to be shut down?
| jandrese wrote:
| Being somewhat famous and in a public place makes it less than
| ideal for calling in bomb threats or whatnot.
| c22 wrote:
| Like as a bludgeoning weapon or something? Legally I think this
| service falls under common carrier protections.
| everybodyknows wrote:
| Users are apparently anonymous -- this will make it non-
| sustainable. One plausible fix: A video camera that records
| faces. Otherwise the homeless will be taking a beating from the
| local drug dealer whenever they get in the way of urgent
| business.
|
| Like this:
|
| _Q. Do Links have cameras and what happens to the footage?
|
| There are two security cameras on each Link._
|
| https://www.link.nyc/faq.html
| bitwize wrote:
| "...and never again pay for a service that would be dirt cheap,
| if it weren't run by a bunch of profiteering gluttons!"
|
| Hack the planet!
| slackfan wrote:
| A free PAYphone seems like an oxymoron.
|
| Perhaps they meant public phone?
| Wohlf wrote:
| It's more about the image a payphone conjures in the mind,
| which is accurate.
| nashashmi wrote:
| New Idea: Android tablet connected by wire (PoE?) with tap-and-
| pay NFC giving out a unique Wifi QR code. And that will give you
| pay-per-use-or by-minute internet at every booth. A free phone
| call is just a headphone plug away with voice activated calling.
| Full hardware with phone handle and/or tablet screen browsing is
| (much) extra.
| noAnswer wrote:
| Pay phones had a pay for Wifi options. (At least in Germany.)
| It didn't save them neither.
| awiesenhofer wrote:
| > pay-per-use
|
| Why would you charge for that? Especially if you want to help
| homeless etc.?
|
| Just make it a free wifi hotspot and be done with it.
| e_i_pi_2 wrote:
| I think the main goal here is that people using the phone don't
| have to pay for it. To that point though, it may be cheaper to
| use an existing (maybe thrown away) phone and just install it
| in a phone booth, then have an unlimited calling service set up
| so it's free for anyone on the street to use
| plusminusplus wrote:
| Who's listening in?
| tux wrote:
| One of the best projects I've seen in years. This project should
| receive some sort of grant or at least award from Philadelphia.
| This brought back good memories :) EDIT: Hack The Planet and
| maybe @giantg2 for downvotes! ^_^
| giantg2 wrote:
| Good luck getting money from Philly. Philly is one of the
| poorest big cities. They certainly don't have money for
| anything like this. Better off looking for grants from rich
| people who work in Philly (I didn't say residents because most
| of them choose to live outside the city in places like Radnor).
| baron816 wrote:
| Will the pay phones support Apple Pay?
| jagged-chisel wrote:
| It supports any payment system that permits a sale of $0.00
| martyvis wrote:
| All the 15000 payphones in Australia are free and have WiFi.
| https://www.telstra.com.au/consumer-advice/payphones
| sillypuddy wrote:
| Who pays for them to be free?
| femto wrote:
| It's worth it to Telstra, to hold onto the real estate. They
| have effectively been been gifted a nationwide network of
| plots of land and structures that turn out to be a good match
| for 5G/6G/WiFi base station locations.
|
| They are probably kicking themselves for ripping out so many
| phones in the past, thus giving up the locations.
| pmarreck wrote:
| I love that a phone phreaker has a "free payphone" hobby project!
| niklasrde wrote:
| BT in the UK has been replacing payphones with advertising
| billboard, with a little digital infopad, USB charging and free
| domestic calls. Calls are cheap as, they probably still make a
| profit with the advertising. It's win-win, though they are a bit
| of an eyesore.
| ascagnel_ wrote:
| NYC has been doing the same thing, but there are concerns over
| tracking (the terminals are equipped with cameras that may or
| may not be running facial recognition software).
| finnh wrote:
| > Mike Dank
|
| _name checks out_
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