[HN Gopher] All American Five radio receivers
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       All American Five radio receivers
        
       Author : ronsor
       Score  : 30 points
       Date   : 2022-12-21 21:10 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | gumboza wrote:
       | Definitely read the potential hazards section. Dangerous as hell
       | these things.
        
         | floren wrote:
         | Dangerous to poke around inside when plugged in, but quite safe
         | unplugged (unlike say an old TV).
        
           | pyinstallwoes wrote:
           | Why is an old tv unsafe?
        
             | greenbit wrote:
             | The CRT acts like a capacitor, storing charge for quite
             | considerable lengths of time. Consider that a B&W would
             | typically run 10kV to 15kV, and color sets easily 25kV, and
             | that should give you some idea of how much energy one of
             | those things can hold. And with those kinds of voltages,
             | you don't even need to make contact to find you've become a
             | discharge path, that stuff will reach out and grab you
             | across considerable air gaps.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | oh, boy. the temptations of telling how to find out on your
             | own are strong!
             | 
             | the capacitors in CRTs could store a charge for a long
             | time. i've seen people that assumed the caps were
             | discharged find out the hard way when they shorted the
             | leads with a tool. the noise alone is enough to make one
             | need clean shorts. the only good thing is that they
             | discharge quickly, but they give you "both barrels" worth
             | to borrow a phrase.
        
             | kenny11 wrote:
             | The CRT retains a high voltage charge even when the TV is
             | unplugged.
        
           | 123pie123 wrote:
           | DO NOT ASSUME a CRT MONITOR or 'old' TV IS SAFE to poke
           | around when unplugged!!!!!!
           | 
           | https://www.instructables.com/How-to-take-apart-TV/
        
             | floren wrote:
             | Read what I wrote again carefully, paying extra attention
             | to the word "unlike"
        
               | 123pie123 wrote:
               | "but quite safe unplugged"
               | 
               | a CRT monitor is typically (I would not gamble on it -
               | again!) not safe when unplugged
        
               | dekhn wrote:
               | yes, you two are in agreement. it's the radio receiver
               | that's safe when unplugged.
        
               | II2II wrote:
               | Unlike means not like, so they were effectively saying it
               | was safe to go inside radios but it is not safe to go
               | into old televisions.
        
               | 123pie123 wrote:
               | appologies - I just re-read the article (and the other
               | comments). I see where you're coming from
               | 
               | I just saw the words "unplugged" and remembered the word
               | vacuum tube - then massive emotions from my past came
               | rushing through
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Slap a "No user serviceable parts inside" sticker on it, and
         | you have an unbeatable liability shield! /s
        
         | jhallenworld wrote:
         | Yeah, they are dangerous, but their safety can be improved: add
         | polarized cord (probably have to move the power switch to the
         | hot side for this) and replace the chassis ground capacitor.
         | 
         | Table top FM radios and TVs also tend to be hot chassis.. (that
         | mains transformer is just too expensive). Even today you can
         | find capacitor dropper powered devices which also are hot.
         | 
         | AA5s are nice in that you can almost always get them to work
         | for cheap. I mean if you have an older radio with a bad mains
         | transformer, it's probably not worth fixing.
         | 
         | I don't think low end hot chassis radios were popular in
         | Europe, they all seem to have a transformer. Maybe 220V is just
         | too dangerous... (but you can certainly have a primary to
         | secondary fault in a transformer..)
        
         | Aloha wrote:
         | They're perfectly safe to work on, just measure voltage between
         | chassis and earth and make sure there is zero volts of
         | potential - or be fancy and use an isolation transformer.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | Many consumer appliances are also still unisolated inside, it
         | saves cost and you are unlikely to be touching anything inside
         | if you don't know what you're doing (hence the usual "do not
         | open" warnings on them.)
        
         | zhrvoj wrote:
         | Yeah, do not attempt to use. High voltage inside. Better to buy
         | any new low voltage piece of shit. Throw this all away. Be very
         | afraid of this old stuff. Hmmm....your Tesla, runs on 3.7V
         | LiIon...safe.
        
           | II2II wrote:
           | It is better to say that you should not go inside of an old
           | television unless you know what you are doing, _and_ don 't
           | assume that you know what you are doing unless you have
           | guidance from someone who is experienced. Reading about or
           | watching someone work inside of high voltage devices should
           | not be considered sufficient since it is easy for either the
           | author or reader to miss important details.
           | 
           | It is also worth noting that electrical safety depends upon
           | far more than voltage. We think of 3.7 V battery operated
           | devices as safe because our bodies are not very good
           | conductors (when dry) and some types of batteries have an
           | internal resistance that will limit the current draw. If I
           | recall correctly, the internal resistance of LiIon batteries
           | is sufficiently low that they are dangerous if not handled
           | correctly (e.g. if you short them).
        
       | Aloha wrote:
       | I'm listening to an AA5 right now, a rather rare Zenith FM only
       | unit - an H722.
       | 
       | https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/zenith_h722wh_722_ch_6h066_h_0...
       | 
       | It's brown if anyone is curious.
       | 
       | The old Zenith stuff of this era is nice, because they used
       | almost exclusively disc caps, which means if it doesnt work, all
       | it needs is the power caps (and one more in the tone section
       | usually). What that translates to, is it usually works out of the
       | box.
        
       | buescher wrote:
       | The hot chassis design is mind-blowingly dangerous by
       | contemporary standards. These things weren't designed to modern
       | creepage distances either. I would worry about creepage to
       | controls on these things. THe article mentions screws potentially
       | being hot as well as other shock hazards finger-accessible
       | through vent hols so no joke be careful to unplug a radio before
       | moving it or otherwise handling it in a way beyond turning it on
       | and tuning it. All of these safety standards are written in
       | blood.
       | 
       | Even with the RC network referenced in the wikipedia article,
       | you're looking at leakage to the chassis of 4.5 to 11.3 mA:
       | https://incompliancemag.com/article/electric-shock-from-radi...
        
       | allenrb wrote:
       | As a kid, I acquired a few of these from my grandparents' farm.
       | At some level it struck me as odd that they shared so many common
       | features and details. It was many years before finally hearing
       | about the "All American 5" and then everything made sense.
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | https://www.youtube.com/user/glasslinger is a good YouTube
       | channel that shows the servicing of these and other vintage
       | radios.
        
         | Aloha wrote:
         | She is the absolute best! Though the stuff she works on is
         | typically much older than an AA5, shango066 is also great
         | (though, his politics are somewhere between wacky-wacky-wacky
         | and crazy town express), JordanPier too.
         | 
         | Glassslinger is probably the best bench tech I've ever seen,
         | she has an encyclopedic knowledge of vintage electronics.
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-21 23:00 UTC)