[HN Gopher] 2022 was the year of Linux on the Desktop ___________________________________________________________________ 2022 was the year of Linux on the Desktop Author : xrayarx Score : 145 points Date : 2022-12-25 20:25 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.justingarrison.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.justingarrison.com) | whateveracct wrote: | MacOS and Windows treat their users like idiots. Since I have | technical proficiency, I like to be able to use it. Using forked | software, scripting, low-level config. It's frustrating how much | of a pain in the ass that stuff can be on non-Linux desktop | environments. | | That's my main motivation to using Linux as my daily driver (3 | years now). | willnonya wrote: | Lol. This is complete nonsense. Numbers that don't hold up, | assertions which don't pass the smell test. | | Linux excels in invironments where people don't ever lnow they're | using Linux. Servers, embedded and highly customized | environments. For average users Linux is still too much of a | disjointed mess with poor hardware support. | | I use multiple Linux distros daily and none of them would pass | for a primetime ready desktop environment in any of my personal | or professional environments. As much as I hate windows and Macos | Linux just isn't up to the job of replacing them on the desktop. | Luckily for them that is becoming less and and less relevant | outside of the business environment. | | In the end Linux is still little more than a random collection of | software loosely connected through an administrator centric | framework. | malkia wrote: | When I was at Google (2014-2017) - The Linux (I think it was | Ubuntu based) just worked. Granted it was mostly | java/blaze/little r/js/go, no dedicated graphics chips us (I came | there from gamedev background). It was working just fine, and we | had option to use Cinnamon or something else. | | The only thing I remember is that it wasn't that easy (or maybe | my memory does not serve me well) to "apt update" anything (and | that makes sense). I think apt was going somehow through internal | servers. All I remember is that "apt-file" wasn't working or was | prevented from doing so. | | Nonetheless - never had problem with the distro/whatever, and TBH | never cared what linux is there - as compiler/everything else got | somehow in, and you just carry on your work in | Eclipse/CLion/JetBrains/Chrome/Firefox/etc. | malkia wrote: | Actually now that I think, I might've had NVIDIA card of sorts. | But what I meant to say, I never needed/care what GPU I have | (unlike before), so it must've worked fine somehow. Maybe I got | once or twice the machine to crash, and it was all the time on. | mumblemumble wrote: | If you click through to the link, you'll see that the results add | up to 150%. That should be a sign that something odd is going on | with this survey result and we need to interpret it with caution. | | The question was "What is _the primary_ operating system in which | you work. " (Emphasis mine.) The question itself implies that we | should only be able to pick one, and yet the results clearly | indicate that more than one was allowed. Most likely, people were | listing the OSes they use a lot. A great many of us developers | use a commercial OS locally, but also interact with Linux servers | or containers on a regular basis. | | That said, there's no simple interpretation of that "40% use | Linux" number that passes the smell test. It's implausibly high | for the number of people who use it as their primary workstation | OS, and it's implausibly low for the number of developers who | regularly work in Linux. More likely, what this number represents | is that different respondents interpreted the question, which | appears to have been ambiguously framed, in different and | incompatible ways, and so the result is statistically | meaningless. | dmix wrote: | Yep, Previous years = 100%, so the question has changed somehow | | https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#technology-mo... | | I guess you could use Windows at work and Linux at home (or | viseversa). | | I'd bet some people also say Linux becayse they have | homeservers and other secondary uses besides their primary | driver. | layer8 wrote: | Also, "the primary operating system in which you work" doesn't | necessarily imply desktop. People could be using a Windows or | Mac desktop and then primarily work in Linux via remote | terminals and/or VMs. | echelon wrote: | Now that I'm no longer forced to use a Mac at work, all of my | work happens on Linux. I only marginally touch Windows and Mac | for testing and builds. | | If I can find a good MDM solution for Linux hardware and | software, I'll let the employees at my startup use Linux too. | | I get a sense that corporate MDM is all that's holding Linux | back. | sarnowski wrote: | Microsoft just released Linux support (Ubuntu) in their MDM | Intune. It's very barebones yet but provides first | fundamental capabilities. | | https://learn.microsoft.com/en- | us/mem/intune/fundamentals/su... | | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/mem/intune/user- | help/enrol... | midasuni wrote: | Has been for me every year for the last 22. | | Occasionally I Remote Desktop into a windows machine or show | someone something in their MacBook, it's exhausting how bad the | experience is. Random hangs, applications crashing, lvl of basic | functions like virtual desktops, and don't get me started on the | Mac trackpad being the wrong way round. | spaceman_2020 wrote: | If I'm honest, Linux is...exhausting. I'm technically proficient, | but even the "user-friendly" Ubuntu is a pain to work with. | Something as simple as changing the mouse scroll speed requires | creating a bash script. Software updates rarely work. There are | random crashes that take hours to fix. I'm about to give in the | towel and get a Mac. | | I can get it to work because the terminal doesn't scare me, but | there's no way I can recommend it to anyone without a certain | amount of technical skills. | rhaway84773 wrote: | On the flip side, Linux is infinitely more useful to me than | Windows. My desktop's motherboard's onboard graphics card | failed but I have an external graphics card. Windows is unable | to boot because of the failed onboard card. Ubuntu worked | absolutely fine. I had to modify 1-2 lines in a configuration | to prevent Ubuntu from loading the onboard graphics at all, | otherwise it would start off funky. | | And MacOS is just too slow. There's far too many animations and | it's extremely difficult to multitask in a useful way. | | It's like Apple has basically been creating MacOS features | based on 2 criteria's. Either so they look good in a demo, or | they're a replica of an iOS app. | LAC-Tech wrote: | _I can get it to work because the terminal doesn 't scare me, | but there's no way I can recommend it to anyone without a | certain amount of technical skills._ | | Then it's a good thing we are on hacker news!! | bb88 wrote: | 1. Redhat standardized on RPM. Debian/Ubuntu had dpkg. Arch has | their AUR packages. Slack used tarballs. | | 2. KDE and Gnome created two different rivaling GUI's. Never | merged and split the development community down the middle. | | 3. There are N different GUI libraries: FLTK, GTK+, QT, | wxWidgets, etc. | | 4. There are 3 different cross platform packaging solutions: | Snap, Flatpak, AppImage | | 5. GPU and Wifi drivers can be a pain to get running sometimes, | even if they're prepackaged for you. (Hell, my Nvidia drivers | crash my windows laptop all the time). | | 6. Support for hardware sometimes requires third party | libraries (solaar for logitech, etc). | | 7. Some software only supports Mac/Windows, but Mac won't | legally let you install their OS in a VM, (not that it stops | some people). If you're a business you're forced to use windows | anyway for niche software that won't run with Wine. | | 8. Battery life on laptops typically is worse than a | comparative windows/mac system -- because windows and mac tweak | more settings for power and performance. | krick wrote: | Actually, I don't imagine switching to Windows or anything | _because_ I find writing a bash-script much easier than | constantly dealing with the fact some things just aren 't | (realistically) configurable at all, and I absolutely hate | dropdown menus within menus and having to use a mouse for | everything. | | That said, Windows/MacOS are MUCH more stable. Granted, I | didn't use them nearly as much, as I use Linux (mainly Ubuntu | and mainly LTS versions), but I basically didn't encounter any | hardware-specific bugs at all for the last couple of years. Or | some deep ecosystem problem, like all this Pulseaudio bullshit. | | Linux is really frustrating, and I'm starting to actually lose | hope we'll live to see it becoming, you know, _usable_. | taurath wrote: | It always feels like a build-it-yourself vehicle. Using it as a | daily driver when you need to get to work on time is not | advised. Even when you get it running for a while, the breakage | is inevitable, and you'll be under the hood. It is really cool | if you love to tinker. Its an OS with a lower level of | abstraction, and one that is less productive overall for most | users, especially anyone who needs things to just work | consistently. | iforgotpassword wrote: | I work on Linux for Linux. All I use is terminals, jetbrains | and Firefox, plus a million command line tools. And maybe the | occasional gimp or VLC. Nothing ever breaks for me. I've been | dist-upgrading the same install for over ten years now. | gundamdoubleO wrote: | Never had any issues with Ubuntu past 16.04, at least not | anything requiring bash scripts or issues with restarting. | Still wouldn't recommend it to non-technical users though, but | that's because 1) They'd have to let me install it for them, | and 2) That would probably lead to me being tech support, which | I don't have time for. | hocuspocus wrote: | All operating systems are exhausting.* I don't understand why | Ubuntu updates would break anything, they've been so reliable | lately that I even let my mom update her computer herself. But | anyway, if you think they're bad, wait until you see mac OS's. | | * Unless your usage is so light that all your computing can be | done on ChromeOS or iOS, but even those are plenty annoying. | ChoHag wrote: | [dead] | G3rn0ti wrote: | > Something as simple as changing the mouse scroll speed | requires creating a bash script | | Indeed, I never realized there does not seem to be a Ubuntu | system setting for adjusting the mouse wheel sensitivity. | Apparently, standard solution requires installing ,,imwheel". | | Lol. Weird. Then, again, in 15 years using a scroll wheel mouse | I never had the need to adjust its sensitivity. | rietta wrote: | Not my experience at all. Been running Ubuntu LTS for work for | years and updates are just about bulletproof. | LarryMullins wrote: | Novice Linux users often make the mistake of adding third | party repos to their package manager, which almost invariably | causes trouble down the line. Some distros (for instance | Debian) have a culture of discouraging this practice, while | others (particularly Ubuntu) have a user culture which | encourages it. | | This is easily the most common reason for updates breaking. | RPM and dpkg are both nigh bullet proof, and you can | generally count on most distros to keep their own package | repo in good order. Dependency resolution between out of sync | and uncoordinated package repos is where things start to | break down. | gumboza wrote: | Yep. I don't use Linux on the desktop simply because I don't | care enough to be assed with arguing with it. Thus I would | rather swap my kidney for some Apple crap and put up with the | trade off which is works vs flexibility. | fearface wrote: | I fully agree to that experience. Next thing I tried was to | have three screens with different DPI's. It's possible (that's | a lie, since you can't adjust DPI and scaling properly in Linux | at all, you'll end up with a half working ugly system and | irrational behavior when you move windows around), but sadly my | notebook needs to work in more than one place... | | I've invited a a long time Linux user who claimed to never had | any problems whatsover to have a look. His verdict was that I | should have only one external screen and use the same screen in | the different places. | | This stuff works with Windows and Mac out of the box. | Gordonjcp wrote: | Exhausting compared to what? | | If you think that Ubuntu has poor user-friendlyness wait until | you try this new "Windows 10" thing everyone seems to be on | about. | | You have to click through about ten pages of menus just to set | up the network, and if you get anything wrong the error message | is just along the lines of either "Sorry, that didn't work. | Please try again!" or "Error -X8004a119af3c occurred", neither | of which are particularly helpful. It doesn't come with a | usable shell. It doesn't even come with ssh, or zip, or Python. | | You're expected to interact with the entire thing by clicking | on page after page after page of little coloured squares that | aren't meaningfully labelled. Why is a user interface designed | like a 1980s "My First Video Game" project supposed to be good? | sekh60 wrote: | You mean Windows 11, 10 is old now. | rowanG077 wrote: | I mean no disrespect but Ubuntu really, really isn't user | friendly. There is no other distribution that introduced so | many headaches for me. I think Ubuntu is coasting on there | reputation from years ago. | jug wrote: | I have to disagree here and provide another experience. | | I regularly revisit Linux for desktop (like every five years) | and this time I moved 100% from Windows 11 to Fedora 37 and | it's been a delight. It's not only a good desktop OS now: I | find it better than Windows. Why? | | * Performance: I think it's more responsive, like the file | manager. It doesn't have an innate dependency on scanning every | single thing for viruses that is hard to disable per design. I | think my SSD loves me now. | | * Ads integrated in the OS: Well. It doesn't have these. | | * Customizability: Even GNOME that is not known for this can | adapt to the user much better than Windows 11. Windows 11 is | terrible and takes steps backwards in this regard. For example | GNOME Tweaks + Dash to Dock and I have a Mac-like dock. It's | like the Mac dock but more customizable, and it's easy to | customize too. Hell I can even customize FreeType to choose | between ClearType style rendering or macOS Quartz-like | rendering (respect LCD pixel boundaries vs respect font design | - you can only have one). | | * Apps: Linux culture is to rely on repositories for apps. | Windows isn't. They have winget and Microsoft Store now but | it's still an unresolved cultural problem where only a subset | of apps are found there, and if they do, they more often than | not do system-wide changes anyway. Linux has nice, easy to use, | stores like Mac. Linux is also miles ahead with containerized | app systems like Flatpak or Snap where UWP support (Windows | counterpart) is more than shaky in the big picture, and I'd | even say a failure. | | * Mouse Scroll Speed: Is set in GNOME settings. | | * Software Updates: Have still always worked for the past few | months. | | * Crashes: None yet! Other than app-specific ones but so far | only "silent" stuff that don't really affect me that seems to | relate to the file manager and thumbnailing corrupt h.264 | videos? (a guess from the logs) | | I guess your mileage MAY still vary here but as for me, this is | clearly a better and more user friendly OS now than Windows 11. | | I'm not a Linux nut either. I was positively surprised and this | is the first time in twenty years I've finally felt fine with | moving from Windows. | LarryMullins wrote: | There's no singular 'linux experience', all the problems you | list are expected problems with some software on linux, but | work just fine with other software systems on linux. | Unfortunately many of the defaults chosen by Ubuntu are very | poor and give bad first impressions. I think that recommending | Ubuntu is an anachronism from the mid to late 00s. | | Experience makes it all much easier, simply because you learn | which software to avoid. Having this experience, linux for me | is stress free and low hassle. But if you don't want to | accumulate that experience, if you want to stay on a default | track with the right choices made for you already, then you | probably should go with your gut and get a Mac. | | Anyway, the "year of the linux desktop" is a joke. The very | premise is an old meme that nobody should take seriously, | nobody can even agree what it should mean. The year linux | became viable for desktop use depends on the person doing the | considering. For some it was years ago, for others it will be | never. | hyperpape wrote: | > There's no singular 'linux experience' | | True, there's two: | | 1. Complaining about your experience, only to be told that | someone else doesn't have problems because they're better at | it than you. | | 2. Being the guy who says he's better. | LarryMullins wrote: | And then there's this guy, who gets mad at people who share | positive experiences because he thinks the discussion is | the rightful territory of those who want to complain. | aussiesnack wrote: | The apparently innocent "sharing" of positive experiences | - so sweet! so nice! - is from Linux self-identifiers all | too often a very crude backhanded "you're wrong about the | problems you claim to have with Linux, and if you're not | wrong, then you're at least thick or lazy". | LarryMullins wrote: | You've pulled these insults out of thin air. I have no | animosity towards Windows or Mac users, nor for those | that might hypothetically like Linux but understandably | have better things to do with their time than learn the | ins and outs of it. | aussiesnack wrote: | Apologies if that seemed directed at you personally, | which wasn't my intent. Attribute it to HN trigger- | finger. | | It is a general and widespread phenomenon though that | anyone who has been less than positive towards Linux on | HN or anywhere will recognise. I don't think it reflects | animosity towards users of mainstream OS's so much as | defensiveness, particularly from strongly self-identified | Linux advocates. Which is all a bit daft, because it's | (a) perfectly obvious that Linux has plenty of problems | (how could something as vast as an OS not?), and (b) that | doesn't make it any less the clear choice for some | classes of user (like myself). | LarryMullins wrote: | Sure, as I say in my first comment, there is a lot of | software for linux that just isn't very good, and there | is a lot of bad advice and bad defaults floating around. | Separating the wheat from the chaff is a daunting task to | any new user, and I think most will fail and feel | dejected unless they have a strong personal motive to | stick with it and learn through experience. It's | definitely not for everybody and I don't expect it ever | will be. | | But if somebody does stick with it and gain that | experience, it's often possible for them to find a | combination of software and settings that earnestly work | well for them personally. It's not as though linux users | are all masochists, the reason I continue using Linux is | because for me, it's lower stress and hassle than | anything else. I learned to use it when I was younger and | thought that tinkering with such software was fun. That | allure wore off years ago and my present self wouldn't | have the patience to learn it all over again, but Linux | remains the best choice for me given the experience I | already have with it. | aussiesnack wrote: | I use Linux (Fedora in my case) as my primary (actually | sole non-mobile right now) OS, with software dev as my | focus. Its the best for my purpose, though I've used both | MacOS and Windows extensively so I have a reasonable | awareness of the relative tradeoffs. | | I do find the Linux community often insufferable though. | Also often extremely helpful however. I guess communities | also have their tradeoffs. | mmcgaha wrote: | At this point in my life I have almost lost all faith in | people sharing an honest assessment of anything. The Linux | is hard trope is really starting to bore me. I get it | things may be different on Linux/Mac/Windows but most UI | things are pretty easy to accomplish everywhere. Should I | complain that windows is hard because find-xargs-grep isn't | available in the default install even though it is pretty | easy to install the software? | JadeNB wrote: | > I think that recommending Ubuntu is an anachronism from the | mid to late 00s. | | What would you recommend as a modern-day user-friendly Linux | experience? I've been looking for something not too demanding | to put on an old X220. | severine wrote: | MX-Linux, hands down. The most user friendly desktop distro | I've used. | uneekname wrote: | Not sure about performance on an X220, but I've loved | Fedora workstation edition. The default Gnome setup is | pretty user-friendly in my opinion, a there's a decent | amount of support to be found online. | LarryMullins wrote: | I'm not certain, but "needing a bash script to change the | mouse scroll speed" sounds like the kind of inanity I've | come to expect from Gnome. KDE is probably a better | choice for somebody with this complaint. | | It might also be a Wayland and/or libinput limitation. | LarryMullins wrote: | To techies who are interested in using Linux, I personally | recommend OpenSUSE Tumbleweed because it has up-to-date | packages and is relatively stable. Debian Stable is a good | choice if you're insensitive to outdated packages. Debian | Sid is alright, but in my experience has more breakage than | Tumbleweed and recovery from that breakage requires more | expertise (Tumbleweed automatically creates btrfs snapshots | before and after every package manager action, making it | easy to roll back any mistakes or bad upgrades.) | | To the average Joe Blow, I don't recommend any Linux | distro. I only give recommendations about Linux to people | who already want to use Linux for their own reasons; I | don't evangelize it to people who are already content with | Windows or Macs. For such people, Windows or Macs are a | better choice. | ranger207 wrote: | Fedora. If you don't like Gnome, the Fedora KDE spin is | almost as polished | hpcjoe wrote: | Linux mint is brain dead simple. Everything just works. | Same version runs on a 14 year old laptop as well as it | does on a newer Epyc deskside workstation. There are others | like it, but Mint is really quite simple to use, and quite | a productive environment. | | There are others like it as well. | | I've been running linux on my desktops/laptops and servers | for the past 24 years. I've not run into problems from a | desktop/laptop perspective for the last 15 years. Some | have, but its rare. | blangk wrote: | Mint or manjaro | sekh60 wrote: | Agreeing with others, Fedora, partifularly the KDE spin if | you want somethings a little Windows GUI like. | whateveracct wrote: | It's funny. My NixOS machines (desktop and two laptops) have | had minimal breakage while upgrading. And the breakage was easy | to fix with a small git commit. | | My macOS (Intel MBP) and Windows (Dell laptop) end up with | something borked by updates pretty much like clockwork. I | suppose I am a poweruser of those systems by nature of being a | dev, but something always tends to stop working. | ThatMedicIsASpy wrote: | My T440s has seen Qubes-OS, Ubuntu, Fedora, Pop-OS, Mint | [Gnome, i3wm, KDE, Cinnamon). Pop-OS is my favorite on if I | want a usable nvidia gpu with hybrid graphics. The only issues | I had with most updates was a full boot partition because I | skip cleanups. | | I have a lot more issues with Windows moving stuff. Settings | are a mess W7 -> W10 -> W11. | | Qubes is still my go-to if I have to deal with malware infested | things. | | I'm full time (95%) on Fedora KDE (Desktop Ryzen 2000, RX500). | I've had some quirks with Veracrypt and an external drive and | crashes related to running out of memory (I'm sure DotA2 leaks | memory since the performance gets worse over time) | | I've checked my desktop for mouse scroll speed and actually | don't have that option. I did change my scroll speed in one | case which is Firefox (about:config => | mousewheel.default.delta_multiplier_y = 85) | jonathanoliver wrote: | I've been running Arch Linux for about 2 years two high-powered | desktop machines (home and work). I run `sudo pacman -Syu` | every day and I've only had one video driver update (nvidia) | that broke me. I had to login from the CLI (which I'm using all | the time anyway) to rollback and pin the version. | | It's been an incredibly smooth experience. | | That said, the one thing that I still haven't migrated over to | fully is Linux on a laptop. I'm macOS on an Apple MacBook Pro | 14" (powered by Apple's M1 Pro). | [deleted] | hnlmorg wrote: | I've been running desktop Linux since the 90s, and it's been my | primary desktop since XP was first released (XP was what drove | my to Linux) and I can count on one hand the number of times | I've needed to write a shell script to fix basic functionality. | | I'm not taking anything away from your experiences though. Just | offering another data point. | | I do get the appeal of macOS. I use it for work but I honestly | find it more frustrating than pleasurable but that's purely | because I don't always agree with Apples design choices. | | ...And that is the real problem with macOS for me. If you like | their default experience then it's a much more pleasurable | platform to use. But if there's any significant part of Apples | design choices you don't get alone with, then you're often shit | out of luck. Trying to bend macOS to behave any way outside of | Apples vision can be more frustrating than dealing with Linux | quirks. | | That all said, I am in love with the battery life on the ARM | MacBook Pros. I've managed to go a full working day without | plugging the MBP in. There isn't any comparative device out | there for Linux. | | So in the end I find Linux for personal devices and macOS for | work is a great compromise for me. | hpcjoe wrote: | I get about 4 hours productive use out of my work Macbook M1 | pro (32 GB RAM, 1TB NVMe) on battery. I get about 3.5 hours | productive use out of my Zen2 HP Omen laptop (64 GB RAM, 3TB | NVME). Though I have to reduce the brightness of the Zen to | get better lifetime. | | I am a bit of a power user, running large builds, analytics, | and other things, so its not surprising to me that I get less | than others. I would like to see an all-day battery laptop | for people like me, though I suspect it will be a few more | years. | | Oh, and the original work windows laptop I had (fully | corporate controlled) with 32GB RAM and 500GB NVMe barely | lasted an hour on battery. And it BSODed frequently. | | I'd still prefer a Linux work laptop, but the Mac is at least | a poor-mans version of it. Windows, even with WSL2, was | horrible. | spatley wrote: | For high load activities like builds and analytics, I use a | server, either on the LAN or in the cloud. It gives me a | better local performance experience and makes my jobs more | reproducible for others to run. It for sure includes the | added complexity of aws-cli scripts and ssh stuff though so | YMMV. | throwaway09223 wrote: | I have the same feelings about OSX, though. It's probably a | result of familiarity more than anything else. | | Take mouse speed, for example. I remember this being incredibly | difficult in OSX: | https://www.reddit.com/r/macgaming/comments/7bg3gg/removing_... | | On linux it's just a menu option in a gui, or a single command. | | Every platform has plenty of bugs, but I find it is | consistently easier to figure out how to change/fix things on | Linux than on OSX or Windows. OSX is probably the _worst_ | platform as soon as you 're doing something Apple didn't | anticipate (or, is actively blocking you from doing). | Aisen8010 wrote: | My experience is similar. Anything more complicated than the | basic stuff like surfing the web is hard. | | Things are getting better in the Linux desktop, but in a slow | pace. I had some hope with the PopOs (I don't know what they | are doing nowadays). | geysersam wrote: | Have the totally opposite experience. Ubuntu has a quite | minimal settings panel, that's good. | | Windows settings are much more difficult to navigate. The | layout / structure has changed a lot between updates. Settings | are hidden deep within preferences menus with multiple tabs. | | Google for things and you find ad ridden pages with screenshots | and pop-ups about clicking here, there, then here. | | It's a mess. | Legogris wrote: | > Ubuntu is a pain to work with. Something as simple as | changing the mouse scroll speed requires creating a bash | script. | | This is Ubuntu and GNOME both having adopted unfortunate | strategies wrt UX in recent years. They seem to be trying to | emulate the Apple "we know best, take it or leave it", removing | customization and freezing the UI, but without the resources | spent on getting it "perfect" for the majority. | | KDE has supported changing mouse scroll from the UI for some | time. Linux Mint (including its Debian edition) with MATE or | Cinnamon, or BudgieWM are other fine choices for non-terminal | users. Fedora has been picking up as a general all-round | desktop distro as Ubuntu has been falling from grace. | | https://www.phoronix.com/news/KDE-Now-Has-Wayland-S-Speed | Gigachad wrote: | >Something as simple as changing the mouse scroll speed | requires creating a bash script. | | I just checked on my Macbook and I couldn't find any option to | change scroll speed. So it's more that on Linux you _can_ | create a bash script to do just about anything even when it's | not a feature the OS has. Unlike others where it's either a | simple UI button or you just can't do it. | kayodelycaon wrote: | https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/change-your- | mouses-... | | It's under Accessibility. | cdfuller wrote: | I was able to find it on the latest macos by opening up | preferences and searching for "scroll". It's under | Accessibility > Pointer Control > Trackpad/Mouse Options | ckolkey wrote: | You definitely can for both mouse and trackpad | joe_the_user wrote: | _If I 'm honest, Linux is...exhausting. I'm technically | proficient, but even the "user-friendly" Ubuntu is a pain to | work with. Something as simple as changing the mouse scroll | speed requires creating a bash script._ | | A. I'm looking at pointer speed section in Mouse Preference in | Control Center. It's pretty simple. It give acceleration and | sensitivy. | | B. Just about every GUI aims for decent defaults and doesn't | allow endless customization and such customization generally | isn't a beginner task. | | I've used the Linux desktop for ten years (Mint then Ubuntu- | Mate). Haven't customized anything with a bash script for many | years. It is currently clearer how to do things than Windows - | it's fricken TWO start menus jumping over each other. | spaceman_2020 wrote: | Should have been clearer: mousewheel scroll speed, which | there's no way to control from the GUI. | joe_the_user wrote: | Sure, but that is a fairly obscure setting that I don't | think merits your earlier build-up _" Something as simple | as..."_. | | On the one hand, I'd certainly admit Linux has "warts". | It's GUI is perfectly usable and clear - it's more now what | one is doing than the horror that is Windows 11 imo (and | I'm working on that occasionally now). But the warts of | Linux are accentuated by the OS attracting a certain kind | of "OCD" user who will tell you how terrible it is for | lacking X utterly obscure feature. | mboto wrote: | I agree with the parent comment. This isn't that niche a | requirement and its just one of huge list. | | Dismissing people's needs isnt the way to solve this. | LarryMullins wrote: | Nah, it's pretty inexcusable for Gnome to not surface | such a setting. LXQt's mouse configuration GUI lets you | configure it, and LXQt has no more than a handful of | people working on it. Gnome has more developer resources | and could implement this easily, but they also have an | attitude problem and bad priorities. | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: | Yeah, the clear problem here is GNOME and it's arrogant | disregard for users... Which I guess really is | historically in line with Linux culture, unfortunately. | Legogris wrote: | GNOME and Ubuntu are not representative of "Linux | culture". | niek_pas wrote: | Mousewheel scroll speed is not a niche feature. | tom_ wrote: | It's obscure on Linux, perhaps! Meanwhile this setting is | in the control panel on both windows and macos. No shell | scripting required. | Certhas wrote: | Is there such a setting in Windows/macOS? (genuine | question, haven't used either much in years) | [deleted] | tom_ wrote: | Yes. It's in the GUI in both cases. | petra wrote: | result #2 in google: | https://www.thewindowsclub.com/change-mouse-scroll-speed- | win... | lewantmontreal wrote: | A scroll wheel speed of one line at a time is not a good | default. | willnonya wrote: | I haven't needed a bash script to customize anything but I | have had ti spend countless hours in the terminal making | seemingly mundane software and hardware work. | | Just because you've used Linux-training wheels edition and | don't remember having problems isn't grounds to dismiss the | large number of people who do have issues with Linux. | | I also find Linux exhausting. I use it daily in servers and | containers. It excels from an administrative perspective. I | avoid using it as a client desktop pc at all cost because | that is not where it excels. | sophacles wrote: | Observation: | | I started daily driving linux in the 90s. When I switched to a | mac around 2010 if found Mac exhausting. It had different usage | patterns than I was used to. Some of my most used features | weren't there. Having a reasonably usable shell experience | required lots of tweaking and macports then brew. When I | switched back to linux ~5 years ago there was a while where | getting back into the linux groove was exhausting because I | wasn't used to it, but not as exhausting as switching to mac | because I already knew it, just needed to get back in practice. | | Every time i use windows (which is rarely, once a year maybe) i | find it exhausting. | | I propose that it's not the OS that's the exhausting part - | it's the switching to a new environment with different | workflows and thought processes around it that is exhausting. | Similar to how it's much harder to get familiar with a codebase | in a new (to you) language than in a language you are | proficient in - but both cases can be taxing. | aussiesnack wrote: | This is something those "defending" the harder-to-use/learn | thing always bring up. As if affordances must always be | relative to prior knowledge. But they're not (always) - some | things just are harder to use than others (at least relative | to a specific meaning of 'use'). | | Programming languages - you could argue Rust isn't hard to | learn, by pretending that everyone claiming it is are just | having trouble adjusting from javascript. But that breaks | down when you realise the Rust learners finding it hard are | actually polyglot programmers who are finding it harder than | all the many other languages, in multiple paradigms, they | have already successfully learned. | | Similar with Linux - I find it harder to 'use' in a certain | sense (the sense most people mean - which is getting all the | ordinary hardware & software stuff working) than the others. | You'll tell me it's unfamiliarity, but it's just not - my | first Linux was Slackware on floppies, and I've used it | alongside Windows and MacOS now for decades. I choose it for | my primary OS for other reasons, but ease of use certainly | isn't among them. I still have to fiddle more with it . | scrapcode wrote: | I agree. When things are working - it's great. And having to | dig in to get things working right is okay, too. However, when | there are issues with hardware, it seems that the solutions | that are in the ether are pretty hackish and you have to spend | the afternoon trying multiple "fixes" to get things to work | again. | | I have to use Windows for work, and I ended up just throwing in | the towel this year and switching back to the dark side for the | time being because I have to get shit done. | [deleted] | pjmlp wrote: | Playing numbers from developers survey, while even Steam places | it at around 2%. | IshKebab wrote: | I mean Steam is probably biased in the opposite direction since | gamers are clearly going to be more likely to use Windows. | | But yeah clearly not nearly as insanely skewed as these | numbers. Statcounter puts it at 2.8%. | alexklarjr wrote: | "The Year of Linux on the Desktop of Developers who bothered to | register on stackoverflow". | TulliusCicero wrote: | These comments are hilarious. | | Linux user community: Linux has been fine for casual users for | years! Give it to your grandma, it's not a problem! | | Also Linux user community: Wait, you used an _nVidia_ GPU in your | build? What kind of idiot scrub are you? | | If there's one thing I've seen that's consistent with Linux users | over the last two decades, it's been blaming users for all their | Linux-related problems. | ryandrake wrote: | Or "You mean you want to run two monitors with different DPIs? | What kind of oddball user are you, anyway?" Linux display | stack's treatment of monitor DPI is basically "throw our hands | up and let apps like Firefox make it work!" | reisse wrote: | I think you gave this example as a joke, but here is a quote | from one of the Wayland developers: | | > I would suggest that this setting [UI scale] needs to be a | global and not a per-output thing. If it was a per-output | thing, windows moving between different monitors would | probably have problems (text size changes while window size | does not?). It is hard to imagine how it would work as a per- | output setting, for me at least. | | See https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland- | protocols/-/i... , the original issue and the discussion | gives quite some insights in how Linux developers see the | world. | devmunchies wrote: | Linux scrub Q, does NVIDIA not use any Linux for themselves? Or | is it a financial reason to ignore Linux? | pram wrote: | I think they don't care about the userspace at all. I assume | from their perspective, most (all?) of the Linux use-case is | for their expensive cards to be running in servers doing | CUDA. | bootsmann wrote: | Yet CUDA still basically only runs on RHEL and Ubuntu LTS. | | (tbf to Nvidia tho, their support is improving and with big | tech putting a lot of weight behind cloud compute the | problem will likely resolve itself) | whateveracct wrote: | I have two nvidia machines and they work fine on NixOS. | Including prime on my laptop! | jerrygenser wrote: | Ironic for me. 2019, 2021 and half of 2022 were the years that I | went all in on Ubuntu for desktop. It was an overall awesome | experience as a developer.... and then Zoom and Slack started | crashing randomly or having weird bugs where I'd needed to | restart the app or even the machine in order to get them working | again. | | 2022 is the year I switched back to windows as my development | experience with WSL2 + being able to use Zoom and Slack without | them crashing or getting random bugs. | | Even running Linux GUI apps works well on Windows. Run evince | file.pdf from the wsl2 command line and evince opens. | | The one thing that doesn't integrate well is linux disk | encryption utilities and windows. I wish I could use | LUKS/cryptsetup but ended up giving up and using Bitlocker. | kibwen wrote: | Note that you don't even need apps, you can just use Zoom and | Slack from your web browser. (For Zoom especially, nobody | should be trusting their native client in the first place after | their security debacles. Your browser is a convenient security | boundary.) If your browser locks up to the point where it | requires you to restart your machine, that sounds like a much | more serious problem. | seanmcdirmid wrote: | The Linux CLI is a dominate user interface I use at work, it is | also just called bash (well, that's the default shell anyways). I | have never tried an actual Linux desktop at work, web and native | Mac applications are still dominate there (besides the CLI). | TylerE wrote: | The cli existed when Linus was still in diapers. | | Even Bash predates Linux by years. | | There is zero that running a bash Shell has to do with "Linux" | kmbfjr wrote: | Then I am glad I missed it. | | I spend my days fixing other people's Linux problems, I don't | wish to fix my own on my own time. | | I still love the OS, but only for Docker and Kubernetes. I'll run | a mature desktop OS with a plan over Linux, possibly Windows. | kewrkewm53 wrote: | I've been running Linux Mint for years on both laptops | (Thinkpads) and desktop, it hasn't been any more trouble than | MacOS or Windows. Things just work out of the box for the needs | of a basic home-office user & programmer. | | I think it's just important to pick the right distro. RHEL which | I use at work is giving me way more trouble. | smsm42 wrote: | So, this person called it: | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29746655 | sfsylvester wrote: | Any clue on what distros are causing the growth? First I've heard | of all this. | zwilliamson wrote: | Steam Deck + SteamOS is a catalyst in the making. You pretty | much have to use Flatpak for application installation otherwise | you risk your installs getting wiped out when Steam does a | distro upgrade. You get a managed desktop experience with the | setup. When you couple the Steam Deck with a good dock you have | a great desktop computing experience. | retinaros wrote: | windows? | devteambravo wrote: | Can 2nd this one, I tried Mint and Slackware this year, just | because of the Win11 app checker thing kept popping and | reminding me that i don't want another few years worth of BS | like that. | pid-1 wrote: | Article says that doesn't include WSL / Docker | Sirened wrote: | It's a joke about people moving to Linux not because it's | gotten any better but because Windows has been getting | worse | [deleted] | jacquesm wrote: | I don't think that's what GP meant with their comment. | _dain_ wrote: | steam deck | imwillofficial wrote: | Nah, not enough shipping to move the needle | jupp0r wrote: | Professional developers use Steam Deck as their main machine? | I have the wrong job it seems! | ekianjo wrote: | Steam Deck is not a distro. SteamOS is. | tux wrote: | Not sure how accurate this is, but you can take a look on | wikipedia. [1] | | [1] | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_syste... | [deleted] | BlargMcLarg wrote: | Strange article trying to extrapolate a very biased subpopulation | and grasping at other aspects to claim this year was "the year of | Linux on the desktop". Unix was already dominating anything non- | personal and non-mobile. Personal use outside enthusiasts and | devs is still a blip on the radar. | | If anyone thinks otherwise, ask yourself how Windows continues to | get away with such consumer-unfriendly practices. | phpisthebest wrote: | Linux != Unix | rascul wrote: | While that's true, there is an exception for Huawei EulerOS | 2.0 on Huawei KunLun Mission Critical Server. | | https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3622.htm | | I don't think it was renewed, though. | jacquesm wrote: | Unix has been absolutely dominant on mobile for years now. | pjmlp wrote: | Try to write a pure POSIX applications on either iOS or | Android. | | https://www.usenix.org/publications/login/fall2016/atlidakis | jacquesm wrote: | That's not the same thing though, is it? Even desktop Linux | is not technically POSIX compliant. | tmpburning wrote: | But Android and iOS are complete nightmares in this | regard. | Arbortheus wrote: | Is there any Linux distribution with MacOS levels of reliability, | simplicity, and productivity, that can reliably be updated | without the boot partition getting full, random things like | thunderbolt docks not working, or sleep states being faulty (or | the machine not working properly after waking from sleep), or | external monitor resolutions being wrong, and monitor scaling | working properly when you have two monitors with different | resolutions? | | Most of my colleagues at work picked Linux over a MacBook, and | they waste countless hours fixing their various Linux bugs. | blensor wrote: | I believe the bigger "problems" happen when a random laptop is | used instead of the few that are rock solidly supported by | major distros. I am the same BTW, I usually buy a laptop that | maybe kinda supported and then cross my fingers and hope that | it works. Then I start fixing those issues that can be fixed or | create little workarounds around those that can't. For my wife | I just bought a Dell XPS and that was that, no tweaks or | workarounds necessary. | TulliusCicero wrote: | I occasionally try a Linux distro on a new computer that I'm | building, like Ubuntu and Mint, and so far I've never been able | to get it running satisfactorily without any major problems. | | Last time, I was using an Intel barebones NUC for a stepmania | setup, and ran into major problems with both audio and display | resolution. Gave up and went to Windows 10, no major issues | there setting it up, though the occasional boot screen | interstitial is very annoying. | choeger wrote: | Pick a T-series thinkpad with an AMD CPU/GPU combo and the | latest fedora. Done. | | Don't forget that MacOS ships with very Limited hardware, too. | Arbortheus wrote: | Funnily enough, this is the exact spec of laptops (except | with Nvidia GPUs) that all of my colleagues who have had | these problems use. | fsh wrote: | Not surprising, since Nvidia is famous for terrible Linux | support. I couldn't get scaling to work on my desktop with | an Nvidia GPU, but my T-series Thinkpad (AMD CPU and GPU) | works perfectly fine. In fact, sleep works _better_ than on | Windows since it doesn 't do the stupid battery-draining | "Modern Standby". If I send it to sleep on Linux, it | actually stays asleep until I open the lid. | hbogert wrote: | Sleep was broken for a year on those with the amd platform. | Based on 4 laptops t14s gen 2 iirc. | | Latest kernels seem to fix it. But tbh I felt like a fool | handing those things to our freelancers. | surrTurr wrote: | Fedora Workstation | [deleted] | pizza234 wrote: | > that can reliably be updated without the boot partition | getting full | | I have the suspicion that this is caused by users who add extra | kernels and don't use the system provided ones. | | Ubuntu retains only a certain number of (distro-provided) | kernels. | | Ubuntu desktop version doesn't even use a separate partition | for `/boot`, so there's no risk. | | I remember this being a problem for Ubuntu Server, but it was | long ago (I think 16.04, or maybe earlier). | | > sleep states being faulty (or the machine not working | properly after waking from sleep) | | This problem can depend on two things. | | S3 (suspend to RAM) became a bloody mess in recent times | (possibly, because of Microsoft's push for the Connected | standby). The firmware of some laptops (and even desktops!) | doesn't advertise the state. One can verify this with `sudo | dmesg | grep "supports S"`: if there is no S3, it's the | producers fault. In such cases, I actually don't know how | Windows works (for example, if they patch the ACPI tables). | | If S3 is advertised, but it doesn't work well, then the | producer didn't release proper drivers. Best thing is to open a | bug in the kernel tracker; some producers do actually react. | | Kernel v6.1 released a lot of fixes for laptops, so it's worth | giving a shot. | | I'm definitely not justifying the status quo, but it's a | chicken and egg situation (small user base -> underdeveloped | drivers -> small user base). | | > random things like thunderbolt docks not working | | I suspect this is a similar (hardware drivers) problem. | | > external monitor resolutions being wrong, and monitor scaling | working properly when you have two monitors with different | resolutions | | I suspect this is an X11 problem, which can be considered | "Linux", although I'm not sure exaclty. Scaling is a bloody | mess, and I think it's not related to drivers. | | To summarize, the fault is a mixed bag. for hardware/driver | cases (and they're many), there's nothing to do; some distros | adopt kernels earlier, but that's not necessarily a good thing. | For display scaling, I suspect there's nothing to do, either - | this may still take some time. | reisse wrote: | > In such cases, I actually don't know how Windows works (for | example, if they patch the ACPI tables). | | It uses Modern Standby (aka S0 Low Power Idle). | | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows- | hardware/design/de... | | > if there is no S3, it's the producers fault | | Or it's Linux fault for not supporting the S0LP? Sure, there | are a lot of problems with the S0LP implementation on | Windows, but the idea itself is good - that's what all the | phones have utilized for at least previous 10 years. Maybe | Linux actually could do it better than Windows, if some | effort was put into it? | vbezhenar wrote: | Fedora was much better than macOS for me. Don't have your kinds | of complications though. | mmphosis wrote: | No. I am using Linux on PC hardware and I miss Mac OS X. I have | a lot tweaks and hacks that just don't cut it. For example, the | PC Home and End keys for text boxes are hard coded into X. | IshKebab wrote: | Funny you should mention that because I always have to fix | Home and End on Mac with Karabiner-Elements so they don't go | the beginning and end of the _entire document_ which is | totally useless. | | That said, I agree with you. | hpcjoe wrote: | I still haven't fixed that on my Macbook, as iterm2's | changes mess with Karabiner's changes. It is a pain in the | ass. | vbezhenar wrote: | macOS is a mess. Some apps respect proper bindings | home/end, some including native Apple ones are just crazy. | Ctrl+A/Ctrl+E works as a super home/end for VSCode but as | an ordinary home/end for Jetbrains. Mess, giant mess. | | The only thing that macOS did good is a separation between | ctrl+C and cmnd+C, so I can interrupt apps in console and | copy text without issues. | c22 wrote: | I have a box I've been updating Mint on for the last 10 years | with no real issues for the last 6 or 7. | hpcjoe wrote: | My M1 Macbook pro is connected to a Dell thunderbolt desktop | docking station. This had caused me so much grief with the | screen, that I directly connected the 43 inch monitor to the M1 | rather than go through the dock. Moreover, the ethernet on the | dock is wonky, often dropping out. This makes the work VPN | sometimes ... challenging. | | Was just as wonky when I had the windows laptop that the mac | replaced. BSODs were common with it, and its crashed the MacOS | machine multiple times. | | Linux OTOH, doesn't seem to have a problem with the other dock | I have it connected to. Haven't had a crash. | | But hey, doesn't fit the "linux sux" narrative, so YMMV. | joombaga wrote: | > that can reliably be updated without the boot partition | getting full | | Who hurt you? Pop!_OS? | czx4f4bd wrote: | Your description of macOS's and MacBooks' reliability doesn't | match my experience. I've been using MacBook Pros for about 15 | years now, and every single one that I've ever owned or used | long-term has always had some kind of bizarre issue that ended | up forcing me to replace it. | | It's actually funny that you mention issues with Thunderbolt | docks and monitors, because I feel like those were some of the | most frequent issues I've encountered. This year, I actually | swapped my work MacBook Pro for a Linux laptop specifically | because my Mac would completely and irrecoverably lock up every | time I tried docking it to two 4K monitors. My new Linux laptop | has some issues of its own, but nothing that severe, at least. | QIYGT wrote: | It's not exactly a desktop device (though it can be booted into | a desktop), but Steam Deck is by far the best Linux experience | I've had. It seems what you really need is a company with an | incentive to make a good hardware+software package. | autotune wrote: | Steam Deck is the only way I am going to indulge Linux | Desktop long term in the future. Just have to save a bit so I | can buy the 512 GB version. | nverno wrote: | Sleep states are faulty on the Linux laptop I'm currently on, | and I do occasionally waste time on interoperability with | various commercial software, although countless hours seems | excessive. But when it comes to running dev software or getting | up and running with a new project, or compiling some github | source, I think I save much more time than I've lost. | jorvi wrote: | What frustrates me is that other Linux users will tell you | with a straight face that you must be flat-out lying if you | bring up sleep problems. Had three users tell me that on HN | just about a day ago. | formerly_proven wrote: | It's really very hardware-dependent. You can have five | machines and sleep and PM works just fine, but if you get | unlucky you also can have five machines and three don't go | to sleep and two have poor battery life. Sometimes this | affects even devices marketed for Linux, like the | framework. | jraph wrote: | > Sometimes this affects even devices marketed for Linux, | like the framework | | I was interested in the framework laptop at some point | but it increasingly looked like a Windows-first laptop on | which the company is happy about you installing Linux on | it. | | There are laptops marked 10/10 on iFixit on which Linux | works perfectly, I'll pick them until this changes. | nverno wrote: | Yea, but this is something unique to Linux, since everyone | runs a different distro on different, never 100%-supported, | hardware. So, they likely have never run into sleep | problems- my desktop linux box doesn't have any at the | moment. | | Sometimes these difficulties have a silver lining, though, | after they force you to learn more about the systems you're | using. I thinks it's less of a trial-by-fire than it was | even four or five years ago when I switched completely to | linux, and only getting easier. | jraph wrote: | It indeed depends on the hardware. I had computers with | capricious suspend in the past. The last ones worked | fine, except one which sometimes hung on wake up and | sometimes had graphical glitches and random hangs, but | all this went away when I removed the faulty RAM stick it | had... | jorvi wrote: | I'm sort-of fine with the issues. I'm not fine with the | increasingly hostile attitude you meet from most of the | Linux world if you in the public eye dare ding their | precious baby. | jraph wrote: | How dare you, though? | nverno wrote: | Well it's kinda understandable, although lamentable, | since open-source development requires high | morale/passion if there's no monetary incentives. If | someone fixes your car for free, but afterward you | complain about them scuffing the upholstery, they | probably lose motivation. I know it's not the same thing, | but I think it comes from the same place. | | There's also the safety-in-numbers aspect, similar to | editor wars, where people adopt the attitude that the | more people that use their thing, the better it will be, | so they are waging a propaganda campaign for their cause. | aussiesnack wrote: | True and annoying. Writing as a f/t Linux user (Fedora | Workstation on a laptop), and I appreciate where it shines | enough to choose its particular set of tradeoffs for | myself. But there's no doubt Linux users can be annoyingly | obdurate about its deficiencies. Similar things crop up in | tech circles all the time - eg. Rust programmers informing | people having trouble learning Rust that there's nothing | hard about it. | pedro2 wrote: | You must be lying! Are you implying S0x works badly and | wakes too many times, pcie_aspm requires to be set to force | to have decent results and enabling S3 is hidden somewhere | in the BIOS assuming it's there at all? | | You must be lying, I never heard of such stories! | | NOTE: My computer came without OS. Assuming HP Dev One or | System 76 behave better in this regard. But I'm a sucker | for 2-in-1. | smoldesu wrote: | Linux doesn't have power nap. That being said, I can | leave my Thinkpad in my bag for a few days without | worrying about losing any of the work on it. It won't win | awards for standby durability, but that may just be a | lost cause for x86. | Kukumber wrote: | Bugs? sounds like they misconfigured their OS | | Linux is not a commercial product that'll suit everyone all at | once, you need to learn about its components, linux is just a | kernel | | If your argumentation is "various linux bugs", then you should | stick to Windows, it has nice "various windows bugs", or macos, | it has nice "various macos bugs" | | There must be a reason why linux empowers the world from micro | controllers to datacenters as well as the Steam Deck and the | nintendo switch for its FreeBSD variant | | Use what empowers you, no need to spread FUD | vlovich123 wrote: | No FUD. On laptops I've repeatedly failed to get the correct | battery life. I've also struggled with audio working | correctly and reliably. | | Sure, something might be misconfigured but the universe of | misconfiguration for a Mac and Linux are substantially | different because Linux is a much sharper tool. | | Pointing the finger at the user is emblematic of the problems | Linux has when people say it isn't suitable for the desktop | (and these days they mean laptop). | | Linux empowers from micro controllers to data centers because | there are domain experts being paid to keep the whole thing | running AND NONE of those use cases are for interactive day | to day customer use on a laptop (eg power saving, audio, | video playback, video conferencing, etc) b with the exception | of steam deck and switch that have a carefully tuned and | tightly controlled OS distribution for a carefully chosen hw | configuration. Windows is arguably the closest to the | problems Linux faces but generally Windows does a much better | job providing usable and stable APIs that vendors build | against whereas Linux does not always do such a good job (+ | vendors care about Windows whereas Linux is generally an | afterthought except if it's relevant to Android). | Kukumber wrote: | > On laptops I've repeatedly failed to get the correct | battery life | | You have to configure for it | https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management | | Linux doesn't know nor care about what machine you use, it | could be a microcontroller without battery to a datacenter | to a laptop to a console, configure for what you use, it's | not "windows for Intel PCs, RISC? what is that? fuck off" | | > I've also struggled with audio working correctly and | reliably. | | That is very hard to believe, my bluetooth headset worked | out of the box | | > with the exception of steam deck and switch that have a | carefully tuned and tightly controlled OS distribution for | a carefully chosen hw configuration | | That exactly prove my point, users usually misconfigured | their OS, the moment you configure your Linux OS, just like | Valve did, with your distro of choice to suit your HW, then | everything works as expected, that's a one time job | | If that workflow doesn't suit you, then linux is not for | you, and that's ok | | > Pointing the finger at the user is emblematic of the | problems Linux has when people say it isn't suitable for | the desktop (and these days they mean laptop). | | Because that's the reality of it, the problem is the user | who expect things to work for him while ignoring its | dimensional capabilities | | That's not a linux problem, that's a user problem, it's | arrogant and selfish to expect "Linux" to work just for | your specific HW and specific usecase and all of the effort | should be dedicated to you, just you, for your own sake | | Do like valve did with steam deck and configure your Linux | OS for your HW, if you are not ready for that, then use | windows or macos | Arbortheus wrote: | In principle I would love to use Linux, as the developer | experience isn't great on Windows, and I would rather not be | tied into expensive Apple computers. | | However, I don't want to learn about components of my | operating system, that is below my pay grade. | | I'm not trying to spread FUD, I'm speaking firsthand on some | of the experiences my colleagues have had with their brand | new $3000 business Thinkpads running all manner of Linux | distributions. | | I don't doubt Linux is the right choice when you are creating | a tightly integrated, walled off product like a Nintendo | Switch. | blangk wrote: | I think you have some serious rose tinted glasses on if you | are positing that these fixing OS bug scenarios are limited | to Linux and do not also commonly occur on proprietary OS. | The QA on Microsoft releases has been awful in recent | years. | vbezhenar wrote: | How can learning of your tools being below your pay grade? | Ability to use tools properly is a prerequisite for any | professional. That sounds very weird to me. | whateveracct wrote: | Software development is full of anti-intellectualism and | friends. So many "professionals" don't think they should | Learn New Things. Said "professionals" tend to be | excellent org chart climbers otoh. | Kukumber wrote: | Your points doesn't make sense since you expect Linux to be | Windows, it is not Windows | | If you need Windows you use Windows | | If you need an OS that is configurable and open, you use | Linux | | If you don't like to configure your OS, then you don't use | Linux | | That's not "elitism", that's respecting the work done by | countless people to offer a free and configurable OS | without strings attached | | There is FUD in OP's comment since my original reply to | tell people to use what empowers them got downvoted, -3 pts | right now | | "FUD: Fear, uncertainty and doubt is a propaganda tactic | used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics, | polling and cults. FUD is generally a strategy to influence | perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false | information and a manifestation of the appeal to fear." | 0xcde4c3db wrote: | > the nintendo switch for its FreeBSD variant | | Nintendo Switch doesn't run FreeBSD, although it does use | some code from FreeBSD. The Switch OS (Horizon) is a | proprietary microkernel-based system that isn't POSIX- | flavored at all. I don't think the full lineage/history is | publicly documented, but CFW and homebrew toolchain | developers have noted strong similarities to the 3DS OS. | srcreigh wrote: | > that can reliably be updated without the boot partition | getting full | | Funny you say that. I can't boot into my dual Windows-arch | desktop atm. systemd-boot is broken after I tried to set up | XBOOTLDR partition, which I only had to do since the default | Windows EFI partition didn't have space after an update. | | 1h20m to backup the 500GB SSD. I had to restore it once already | after a botched shrinking of a Windows data partition. There | was also a problem where literally nothing would boot - not | even a USB. I believe this happened because I accidentally | copied my main SSD (with the arch/windows EFI partition at the | front) to the 8GB USB drive, and (again, speculating) having | two similar drives confused the BIOS enough that nothing would | boot, it just kept defaulting to network boot. "(Drive not | present)" on the Windows/arch boot options. Sigh... | | Anyways, I still need to try adding/removing a timeout for the | systemd-boot config. I've already tried hosting everything on a | separate, larger EFI partition. When I boot to Linux from the | BIOS it just shows me options for Windows 10 and back to boot. | | TL;DR Linux is a huge PITA. | jraph wrote: | > without the boot partition getting full | | This is very annoying. Some distributions are able to boot | directly from the main partition, without a need for a separate | /boot though, even with Btrfs. This is the case for the | computer I'm writing this comment with running openSUSE | Tumbleweed, I think I had that with Debian or Ubuntu in the | past. [a] | | > sleep states being faulty (or the machine not working | properly after waking from sleep) | | > or external monitor resolutions being wrong | | Fine on my computers too. | | > monitor scaling working properly when you have two monitors | with different resolutions? | | I gave up temporarily on this. It seems to work well on Wayland | but I can't bear the blurry fonts that comes with fractional | scaling on Wayland (and this is not just Linux, I think macOS | is like this too), and I'm still on X11 the scaling is not very | adaptative. HOWEVER KDE is getting proper fractional scaling | support just right now [1]: | | > "What does this do?" you might ask. It allows the Qt toolkit | to turn on its pre-existing fractional scaling support on | Wayland that it always had on X11. No more rendering to an | integer size and then scaling down! This should result in Qt | apps that are scaled to anything other than 100%, 200%, or 300% | scale having better performance, less visual blurriness, and | lower power usage. | | And KDE on Wayland may be usable now, so that might be the | thing that makes me switch in the coming months. | | [1] https://pointieststick.com/2022/12/16/this-week-in-kde- | wayla... | | [a] edit: by the way, I just installed Debian on an old x86 | tablet that was running Ubuntu (because i386 is not supported | anymore, and recent versions of Debian are way better than | recent versions of Ubuntu anyway). It had a separate /boot on | Ubuntu, I installed Debian in a Btrfs subvolume, its /boot is | there so now the separate boot partition is completely useless | and I will get rid of it. So I can confirm it works on Debian | too. | srcreigh wrote: | What partition configuration do you have? Do you have a fdisk | printout handy (aka `fdisk /dev/FOOBAR` and run the p | command) | jraph wrote: | Disk /dev/sda: 465.76 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 | sectors ... Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 | bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 | bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 | bytes Disklabel type: gpt ... | Device Start End Sectors Size Type | /dev/sda1 2048 1050623 1048576 512M EFI System | /dev/sda2 1050624 972578815 971528192 463.3G Linux | filesystem /dev/sda3 972578816 976773134 4194319 | 2G Linux swap | | sda1 is the EFI partition mounted on /boot/efi, /boot is a | folder of /dev/sda2. | | sda2 is fully encrypted, subvolumes used to be managed by | snapper and I installed openSUSE with its installer which | does a lot of magic so my mount is a bit of a mess. Grub is | able to find its config and boot the OS but takes ages to | decrypt so I replaced it with systemd-boot. Here's mount: | proc on /proc type proc (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) | sysfs on /sys type sysfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) | devtmpfs on /dev type devtmpfs | (rw,nosuid,size=4096k,nr_inodes=3048348,mode=755,inode64) | securityfs on /sys/kernel/security type securityfs | (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) tmpfs on /dev/shm | type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,inode64) devpts on | /dev/pts type devpts | (rw,nosuid,noexec,relatime,gid=5,mode=620,ptmxmode=000) | tmpfs on /run type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,size=4883644k,nr_ | inodes=819200,mode=755,inode64) cgroup2 on | /sys/fs/cgroup type cgroup2 (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatim | e,nsdelegate,memory_recursiveprot) pstore on | /sys/fs/pstore type pstore | (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) efivarfs on | /sys/firmware/efi/efivars type efivarfs | (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) bpf on /sys/fs/bpf | type bpf (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=700) | /dev/mapper/cr_root on / type btrfs (rw,noatime,ssd,space_c | ache=v2,subvolid=266,subvol=/@/.snapshots/1/snapshot) | systemd-1 on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type autofs (rw,relat | ime,fd=28,pgrp=1,timeout=0,minproto=5,maxproto=5,direct,pip | e_ino=16762) debugfs on /sys/kernel/debug type | debugfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) mqueue on | /dev/mqueue type mqueue (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) | hugetlbfs on /dev/hugepages type hugetlbfs | (rw,relatime,pagesize=2M) tracefs on | /sys/kernel/tracing type tracefs | (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) fusectl on | /sys/fs/fuse/connections type fusectl | (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) configfs on | /sys/kernel/config type configfs | (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) ramfs on | /run/credentials/systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service type | ramfs (ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=700) | ramfs on /run/credentials/systemd-sysctl.service type ramfs | (ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=700) | /dev/mapper/cr_root on /.snapshots type btrfs (rw,relatime, | ssd,space_cache=v2,subvolid=265,subvol=/@/.snapshots) | /dev/mapper/cr_root on /boot/grub2/i386-pc type btrfs (rw,r | elatime,ssd,space_cache=v2,subvolid=264,subvol=/@/boot/grub | 2/i386-pc) /dev/mapper/cr_root on /opt type btrfs | (rw,relatime,ssd,space_cache=v2,subvolid=261,subvol=/@/opt) | /dev/mapper/cr_root on /srv type btrfs | (rw,relatime,ssd,space_cache=v2,subvolid=259,subvol=/@/srv) | /dev/mapper/cr_root on /boot/grub2/x86_64-efi type btrfs (r | w,relatime,ssd,space_cache=v2,subvolid=263,subvol=/@/boot/g | rub2/x86_64-efi) /dev/mapper/cr_root on /usr/local | type btrfs (rw,relatime,ssd,space_cache=v2,subvolid=258,sub | vol=/@/usr/local) /dev/mapper/cr_root on /root type | btrfs (rw,relatime,ssd,space_cache=v2,subvolid=260,subvol=/ | @/root) /dev/mapper/cr_root on /var type btrfs | (rw,relatime,ssd,space_cache=v2,subvolid=257,subvol=/@/var) | /dev/mapper/cr_root on /home type btrfs (rw,relatime,ssd,sp | ace_cache=v2,subvolid=281,subvol=/@/home) tmpfs on | /tmp type tmpfs | (rw,nosuid,nodev,size=12209112k,nr_inodes=1048576,inode64) | /dev/sda1 on /boot/efi type vfat (rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dm | ask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,u | tf8,errors=remount-ro) ramfs on | /run/credentials/systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service type ramfs | (ro,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime,mode=700) tmpfs on | /run/user/1000 type tmpfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,size=24 | 41820k,nr_inodes=610455,mode=700,uid=1000,gid=1000,inode64) | portal on /run/user/1000/doc type fuse.portal | (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000) | gvfsd-fuse on /run/user/1000/gvfs type fuse.gvfsd-fuse | (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=1000,group_id=1000) | tracefs on /sys/kernel/debug/tracing type tracefs | (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime) portal on | /root/.cache/doc type fuse.portal | (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0) | gvfsd-fuse on /root/.cache/gvfs type fuse.gvfsd-fuse | (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0) | | I have a similar setup on an nvme disk in another computer. | | I might as well delete the 2G swap partition by the way, | with 24G of RAM I'm not sure it's that useful. | compumike wrote: | Out of curiosity I just pulled User-Agent stats from my "Show HN: | Inflation-adjusted stock charts - Total Real Returns" post | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32081943 that was #1 on | Hacker News on July 13, 2022. Of 38595 clicks that day from | news.ycombinator.com total: 30.8% (11868) | Macintosh 22.7% (8745) iPhone 21.7% (8356) | Windows 15.7% (6065) Android 8.5% (3284) Linux | (!Android) | | That implies a 61%/39% desktop/mobile split. | | Mobile: 59%/41% iPhone/Android split. | | Desktop: 50%/36%/14% macOS/Windows/Linux split. | | Personally I switched back from macOS to Linux (Pop_OS!) as my | primary desktop operating system in 2020. | imwillofficial wrote: | That's against the rules. | | I've been doing this 20 years. | | You can only say next year is the year of the Linux desktop. | | No hindsight stuff allowed. | krick wrote: | That's moral choice I guess: you were simply making mistakes | for the last 20 years, an the OP is blatantly lying. Also, you | were simply giving people hope, and OP is actively sabotaging | the development, by trying to make false impression that this | garbage is already working fine. Which, as every actual Linux | user knows, just isn't the case. | | Obviously, that's Microsoft PR department post. Using praise as | a weapon. | | I've had to update Ubuntu (to the latest LTS! which is 8 months | old already!) on a laptop (a Thinkpad, for God's sake!), and | I'm still fighting a bunch of problems (not exclusively driver- | related) that I didn't have on the same machine on older Ubuntu | (or maybe I've already fixed some of them before and forgot | about that... but some certainly are new!). I hate it, and I | have no idea how non-technical people manage to use it for | daily life and not as a troubleshooting exercise simulator | (I've heard some of them do -- not sure if that's true though). | pid-1 wrote: | Rant: last weekend I finished building my teenager dream PC - 12 | cores cpu, 64GB RAM, RTX 3060 12GB VRAM... GNOME on Ubuntu still | managed to crash / hang on a fresh install. | | Will try Mint / others, but it's a shame the "gateway distro for | new users" is in such sorry state. | shrimp_emoji wrote: | Try Manjaro with KDE. | | Manjaro's more stable than Ubuntu (somehow), and KDE is better | than GNOME. :D | phpisthebest wrote: | Gnome Ubuntu is the "gateway distro for new users"? I would | never ever Recommend that to new users. | | Mint, popOS, and a few others for people coming from Windows | would be the "gateway distro for new users" | | gnome 3 is not for new users, back in the day, gnome 2.4 days | maybe that was the case | davrosthedalek wrote: | At this point, the "gateway distro" for new users is running | any of those in WSL. There is so much more buy-in if you can | someone that they don't have to throw away their laptop and | get one with this specific chip selection so that everything | works. And if you can tell them that yes, of course, you can | run your games at the same time, without fiddling, dual | booting, or fear of getting banned for "cheats". | hpcjoe wrote: | Almost same config as my deskside. I've got 16 Epyc CPU cores, | 128GB RAM, and 2TB of NVMe along with 8TB of ZFS mirror with | hot spare. Same GPU. Linux Mint went on w/o problem. I did have | to switch from nouveau to nvidia drivers, but that's covered in | the driver manager. | | Again, everything just works. Even the stupid little USB sound | card I plugged in. Been listening to spotify while working on | it. Using Zoom on that for my private non-work meetings. | | Cinnamon version, 21.1 version of mint. Painless. Even getting | zfs up and going. I updated to 2.1.7 at that. | Avamander wrote: | Nvidia with Wayland? That's on you then, man. | brookst wrote: | Exactly why I only use linux for headless serves. God knows | how many totally obvious mistakes would be "on me" if I tried | to set up a GUI workstation. Who's got the time to learn why | you can't use of of the main GPU brands with one of the main | GUIs? | choeger wrote: | Well, you _did_ build your own rig, so some learning is | expected, no? | phpisthebest wrote: | Well it has been known for decades the Nvida is openly | hostile to Linux Desktop, and actively tries to prevent | development of open source drivers, | | Hell Linus has a famous speech where he literally flips of | Nvida | brookst wrote: | Celebrity kernel hackers lobbing attacks at hardware | makers in speeches is no way to run a compatibility | matrix. | phpisthebest wrote: | >Celebrity kernel hackers | | Wow... that is a take... Linus is a "Celebrity kernel | hacker" really? | bananaboy wrote: | I could be wrong but it sounds like the poster is making | a joke by parodying a line from Monty Python and the Holy | Grail. | ehutch79 wrote: | If I ask about this around the office, do you think | anyone will have any idea what I'm talking about? | | It might be obvious in your social circles, but that | doesn't mean it's even remotely common enough to be | assumed knowledge for someone trying out linux on the | desktop for the first time. | phpisthebest wrote: | >>If I ask about this around the office | | Depends, is this an office is Linux users? If so then i | expect yes they would | soulofmischief wrote: | This is entirely NVIDIA's fault, not Linux's. AMD plays | ball. | AndrewOMartin wrote: | Hackers. You'll find a few around here. | ThrowawayTestr wrote: | Forget it, I'll just install windows. | fsociety wrote: | I recently went through the exercise of setting up two Ryzen | PCs. One with an AMD GPU and one with an Nvidia GPU. | | Surprisingly, the only issues I had with NVIDIA was that my | window manager would not let me start it because I had an | NVIDIA GPU. They make you pass a flag along the lines of "yes | I am running NVIDIA with Wayland". | | The AMD GPU was a nightmare thanks to a long running bug. I | eventually got it working, but it was unexpected. NVIDIA on | Linux has improved a lot! | uncletaco wrote: | Same story: 16 core, 64GB ram, 6900xt. And nothing crashes | because even when being ridiculous I knew better than use | Nvidia on Linux | teawrecks wrote: | I'll take "Sentiments from the Linux Community that Actively | Drive Users Away" for 300. | spaceman_2020 wrote: | Yeah, there's a huge problem in the community where every | problem is the user's fault. | | Like, using the most popular graphics card provider on | Linux shouldn't be some outlandish idea that should be | ridiculed. | rhn_mk1 wrote: | In reality it's more like a sentiment of a certain hardware | manufacturer towards the Linux community. The best the | community can do is make it known. | inkblotuniverse wrote: | Good, too many people are using Linux. | doubled112 wrote: | Meanwhile, my Linux partition is rock solid and I cannot for | the life of me figure out random hangs and crashes on clean | Windows installs. | | It is an Nvidia GPU. Honestly, they're rarely the problem in | Linux. Not in practice anyway. | | Any hardware diag I try passes. Drivers? Tried both | manufacturer and Windows Update. Always ends the same. | | The mouse driver BSODed the machine one time. That was a new | one. | | I'll stick with a Linux distro for real work, thanks. | UberFly wrote: | Linus Torvalds giving the finger to Nvidia should be required | reading for all new Linux adventurers. | iamdbtoo wrote: | I've been using Linux as my primary OS for around 3 years now | with an nvidia GPU and haven't had any issues. I don't run | Wayland for obvious reasons, but otherwise the system is rock | solid. I have not had anything resembling the nightmare | experience people claim with Linux and nvidia GPUs. | robertlf wrote: | This is utterly ridiculous. Unless you're a long-time Unix hacker | or system administrator (I was the latter for ten years), trying | to do anything in Linux is time-consuming, difficult, and | ultimately very frustrating. Desktop Linux was always be a | backwater for techies and it has absolutely no hope of widespread | adoption like Windows or macOS. | roxgib wrote: | They're going to be giddy when they learn about Chromebooks! | wrs wrote: | "The Year of Linux on the _Developer's_ Desktop" is kind of | moving the goalposts from the original idea, no? | IshKebab wrote: | Not even that - developers that are keen enough to fill in | Stackoverflow's user survey. | ITB wrote: | Ubuntu keeps getting better and better for me. This year I bought | an Asus laptop with all the bells and whistles, and allegedly the | only supported Linux was Fedora. I tried to get everything setup | and failed multiple times, and then I went back to Ubuntu, | installed a much newer kernel since Ubuntu distros are | conservative there, and that was pretty much it. | dinvlad wrote: | Recently, I've been impressed by Intel's Clear Linux project. It | really feels like a completely new generation of Linux desktop | that's designed from the ground-up to be more performant than | even Windows, while still being "turn-key" pretty much, and a | bleeding-edge yet stable rolling-release at that. | eecc wrote: | I'd argue the problem isn't really with the Linux kernel or the | command line. | | The UI experience is unfortunately the same coherence of design | horror story it has been since forever. | | Windows is of a terrible of it's own, but wayland, gtk, the OS | services model and user settings are just a horror show. | jimcaale wrote: | Welcome | im_down_w_otp wrote: | After 25 years as a dedicated Mac user, I kind of inadvertently | switched to Kubuntu for most things, and it's been mostly fine. | It gets better and better with each release too. | | My singular major complaint is that not enough applications | leverage the KDE system that allows you to rewire various | keyboard shortcuts, so I can only half-ass having a setup where | all the shortcuts mimic those of a Mac. | chazeon wrote: | I wonder when Linux can finally gain proper fractional scaling | support. Now I know Gnome has it under wayland, but many other | applications does not, electron apps sometimes can work with | caveats, but I still have to make a lot of effort to make it | really look okay to my eye. | | Now out of box, everything feels broken here and there. And every | time I came to use it as a _real_ desktop environment instead of | just a development machine I was distracted by the instinct to | fix things without being to get anything done. | | I know if someone reside mainly in terminal or use tile-based | environment would work okay, but this kind of setup unfortunately | does not work for me. | sz4kerto wrote: | Gnome doesn't have it. Looks like it'll land next year. | iz_zi wrote: | It's not finished until more Microsoft and Mac users convert to | Linux. | ekianjo wrote: | > a million steam deck | | this is still just a rumor at this stage as there is no source | apart from one guy saying it in a KDE conference. If Valve had | indeed shipped more than a million they'd be screaming about it | on the rooftops. | ThrowawayTestr wrote: | Why would they? Private companies don't need to brag. | enneff wrote: | Also, on track record, Valve have been very quiet in general | about the huge piles of money they have raked in over the | last 20 years. | themacguffinman wrote: | Yes they do if they want to build excitement and interest in | their niche platform. Money isn't the only reason to brag, | attention is critical to a platform's success and Valve's | Linux-based platform is starting from behind. | ThrowawayTestr wrote: | >starting from behind | | They have 20 years of brand history, what are you talking | about? | themacguffinman wrote: | * * * | fxtentacle wrote: | Until Acrobat, Photoshop, and Illustrator work in Wine, it's a | hard no. | | Word and Excel are good :) plus there are tolerable replacements. | Outlook is buggy as hell, but evolution can do its job. | | But when I need to fill out and digitally sign a PDF form - | something that should be an easy and mundane task - the entire | Linux ecosystem fails me. | | Also, task prioritization is still horrible. I fire up a high CPU | background task and the mouse cursor stutters? (in GNOME) | andrewstuart wrote: | I can't consider Linux desktop until copy and paste is consistent | and seamless and lets me use the macOS key combination | everywhere. | | And of course all this should just work, not be a series of cli | commands and configs. | uneekname wrote: | because it's usually Ctrl + Shift + C to copy from a terminal? | Otherwise I haven't noticed much inconsistency on the distros | I've used | whateveracct wrote: | It's pretty much just that. People get hooked on the | beautiful consistency of the command key and overrate how | much value-add it really provides. They'll make arguments | about how often they copy-paste and how every bit of | complexity fills up their brain and other pseudoscientific | stuff. | G3rn0ti wrote: | I can't consider MacOS until the ,,@" character is back on its | internationally standardized place and Apple Safari supports | VP9 hardware decoding. | college_physics wrote: | No it wasn't. Nor was it needed. | | Linux is unstoppable. The monotonic accumulation of all that open | source goodness is like a giant capacitor taking forever to | charge. The result takes a while compared to a well funded | commercial enterprise, but it slowly morphs into a super desktop | that is basically impossible to compete against. Free, super | capable, private by design. You cannot beat that with bells and | whistles. The "average person" UX red lines will be met at some | point. | | Make no mistake. Life is not linear. Nothing much happens, it | becomes a running joke and then, boom and its not a joke anymore, | its the new reality. | jcelerier wrote: | > Make no mistake. Life is not linear. Nothing much happens, it | becomes a running joke and then, boom and its not a joke | anymore, its the new reality. | | A data point: today I was talking with a friend who works in a | company making a 3D software. Apparently since last year they | lost most of their clients to Blender, which used to be the | butt of so many 3D software jokes. | azeirah wrote: | Similarly, OBS. | | The entire streaming industry uses OBS. Colleagues at work | use OBS casually to capture recordings. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-12-25 23:00 UTC)