[HN Gopher] The US-Canada border cuts through the Haskell Free L... ___________________________________________________________________ The US-Canada border cuts through the Haskell Free Library and Opera House Author : greggarious Score : 57 points Date : 2022-12-26 16:12 UTC (6 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.aljazeera.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.aljazeera.com) | no_wizard wrote: | one piece that is omitted from this is how the border is | enforced. From the looks of it, unless you're looking at becoming | employed here they don't really check your citizenship. That's a | win in my book. | | Reminds me that when I was a kid you could travel to / from | Canada without a passport (only nation with that privilege if I | recall correctly) and now you can't. I recall no real good | reasoning for it other than the DOH wanted to close the loop | hole, without any real evidence it was a cause of issues | jupp0r wrote: | This is completely normal inside the EU. You barely notice | you're in another country sometimes. | kejaed wrote: | You still can as a kid via land, but a birth certificate is | required. The parents do need passports though... | morelisp wrote: | Not only Canada; also Bermuda and fewer restrictions for | Mexico. All gone now. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Travel_Init... | mynameisvlad wrote: | The page you linked mentions _several_ non-passport | alternatives. | | Yes, the requirements are stricter in that you have to prove | citizenship _in some way_ but there are multiple ways to do | that which are WHTI-compliant. | morelisp wrote: | You mean all the things just as hard to get as a passport, | some invented specifically to be used for this new program? | Sure, I guess you could get one of those instead. But | there's no reason to get one of them rather than a passport | except as a fig leaf for people to say a passport "isn't | mandatory". | | Or, and bear with me for a second, we could have kept | freedoms we had on September 10th, 2001. | TaylorAlexander wrote: | It's interesting to see the efforts to lock down our once | permeable borders succeeding in recent decades. It seems that for | much of our history we had no issue with free passage across, but | we have in my lifetime used the politics of fear to militarize | our borders. Obviously some will disagree but this seems to me a | regressive change. | [deleted] | klyrs wrote: | Freedom of movement is tenuous, and one of the greater | paradoxes of the modern "libertarian" movement. The freedom | isn't even universally supported on the left -- democratic | socialist countries rely on high taxes and low economic | inequality to maintain their systems, which, the reasoning | goes, is unsustainable in the face of an unrestricted influx of | economic refugees. | lambdasquirrel wrote: | Not sure why this is being downvoted. | | > The freedom isn't even universally supported on the left | | In the U.S., the left broadly supports immigration as well as | freedom of movement. But if you take a peep at European | politics, and even parts of the left in Canada, you might | find that support for immigration and freedom-of-movement | really is more complicated. | | It's one of those weird usages of terminology that the left | in the U.S. is described as "liberal." In Europe and Canada, | liberal means center-right. But at least in this case, | calling the American left liberal is appropriate. | dragonwriter wrote: | > The freedom isn't even universally supported on the left | | Freedom of movement is tied to left _internationalism_ , but | radical (i.e., all-at-once/revolutionary) internationalism is | not as strong as it once was, and even people that see | freedom of movement as a long-term goal often see | unrestricted freedom of movement as having unacceptable costs | between states that aren't both much further along than any | actually are as having practical problems. | jupp0r wrote: | Having been born in East Germany I can assure you that the | "Left" is not a proponent of free movement and that they will | gladly attempt to shoot you for trying to escape from | socialist paradise. | | Calling US democrats "socialist" for wanting things like | universal free health care makes me cringe in light of that. | serial_dev wrote: | > The freedom isn't even universally supported on the left | | It could be argued from a "leftist" position (whatever that | means nowadays) that: it's mostly working class people that | need to compete with immigrants. If the immigrants are | undocumented or very poor, they are more likely to tolerate | lower wages and unsafe working conditions, meaning that I (if | I was a working class American) would have less negotiating | power when it comes to my wages and work conditions, as there | are plenty of people who would be happy to replace me. Also, | working class people are more likely to meet with the | immigrants that are engaged in illegal activities, whereas if | you are middle-upper class or rich, you'll meet the educated, | immigrants that maybe help your business growing or at the | very least help you keep your household running. | | I'm just trying to show a different "leftist" take, I don't | really have a strong opinion on this issue as I believe there | are good people on both sides and figuring out the best | approach is basically impossible. | rascul wrote: | > It could be argued from a "leftist" position (whatever | that means nowadays) that: it's mostly working class people | that need to compete with immigrants. If the immigrants are | undocumented or very poor, they are more likely to tolerate | lower wages and unsafe working conditions, meaning that I | (if I was a working class American) would have less | negotiating power when it comes to my wages and work | conditions, as there are plenty of people who would be | happy to replace me. | | That sounds very similar to the "they're stealing our jobs" | argument I hear sometimes from people on the right. | adalacelove wrote: | And on a lot of countries the right has gained support | within the working class | TaylorAlexander wrote: | What you say is correct, but I am reminded of something David | Harvey says: "wealth redistribution is the lowest form of | socialism." | | If you have true community ownership of the means of | production, then people gain wealth by working for | cooperatives, not by state guaranteed benefits. In such a | system I would think there is more flexibility in how | benefits are distributed. | [deleted] | FpUser wrote: | Yes this is very regressive change. I remember times when I | could drive into US and back with just regular driver license. | I see a zero reason other than turning people into a cattle for | sacrificing freedom of movement. | kevin_thibedeau wrote: | I like this log used to protect the border: | | https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0108844,-73.3349375,3a,75y,1... | goodcanadian wrote: | While the border looks extremely porous, the reality is that it | is heavily monitored. You will be met by the police or border | patrol if you cross in the wrong place or even if you simply | loiter near the border. | blamazon wrote: | I've spent time in a few of these wacky rural Canadian border | places and for the places I went to, it didn't seem that | likely one'd be caught in many spots, it's just the | consequences if one does are potentially quite severe, and | there's a pretty good degree of self policing of the honor | system as word gets around a small town real fast. (Unless | enough people wish to keep certain crossings secret... | interesting idea.) | | Although a somewhat common story I've heard is youths goofing | around on ATVs or snowmobiles being intercepted and let off | with a strict warning. Perhaps somewhat mythologically passed | down generation to generation. | sacnoradhq wrote: | Sounds about right. The CA-US border is extremely long and | sparsely populated in most areas. Reckless snowmobile use | is a common thing in the northern lower 50. The worst is | drunk snowmobilers going 90 mph. | jjtheblunt wrote: | northern lower 50? | Scoundreller wrote: | I wouldn't say "will", but yeah, there is a risk. | sacnoradhq wrote: | That's not a log, it's a military-grade, arboreal-derived | perimeter defense system to stop all unapproved international | vehicular traffic. | ralph84 wrote: | Looking at Google Maps it appears several other buildings in the | area also straddle the border. The reporter mentioned an | insurance dispute in passing, but it would be interesting to have | more details on how it all works from a legal perspective. | Presumably they get two different property tax bills. Are two | different building codes enforced depending on which part of the | building you're in? | red_phone wrote: | I'd imagine many of the same considerations come into play when | a structure straddles a state line in the US. I wonder how | that's handled? | klipt wrote: | International borders are much more complicated. For example | a Canadian citizen couldn't work on the US side without a | visa and vice versa. | shagie wrote: | At the North Carolina-Virginia border, a family makes its | home in both states - https://www.pilotonline.com/news/articl | e_738da14c-7322-11e8-... (I'd recommend using reader mode if | your browser supports it) | | (This is a good one) What if your home was in two different | states? Changes to the North, South Carolina border leave | residents frustrated - https://abc11.com/north-carolina-nc- | south-sc/1896481/ | | > James Tanner, the Gaston County tax director, said the | state will have to refer to old laws regarding residency for | houses the border now divides. | | > "What is going to be that main decision is they go back to | the old voter guidelines or rules," Tanner said. "And that's | where the head of household lays down to sleep. So basically | where the master bedroom is located in that property, | whichever side that's on is going be dependent on where the | residence is." | | > The border legislation passed in both states said that | residents who moved from North Carolina to South Carolina | will remain eligible for North Carolina in-state tuition for | 10 years after the change, provided that they remain on the | same property that was formerly in North Carolina. Residents | whose homes moved from South Carolina to North Carolina are | eligible for South Carolina in-state tuition for two years | after the change. | | > ... | | > Dee and Glenn Martin, age 88 and 90, live just a few houses | away from the Ingold family, and their property was moved | entirely from South Carolina to North Carolina. Glenn has a | number of significant health issues, including pulmonary | fibrosis. He spends most days at home, seated in his favorite | armchair and attached to a tank of oxygen while Dee serves as | his primary caretaker. | | > Under South Carolina's healthcare provisions, he was | allowed at-home visits from a primary care physician. | Although the Martins have found a North Carolina doctor to | serve as Glenn's primary care physician, they remain unsure | what kind of access they will have to at-home care. | | --- | | Apparently, these are known as Line houses... and there's a | Wikipedia article on them. | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_house | | Some Straight Dope from 2013 | https://boards.straightdope.com/t/property-spanning-two- | stat... | | (on the different states and their quarantine requirements in | 2020) https://www.heraldnews.com/story/special/special- | sections/20... | | > People like Kemp need to take some time to describe | precisely where they live. He walks in his front door in | Rhode Island, but his kitchen is in Connecticut. He votes in | Rhode Island, which is also where his car is registered, but | he sleeps in Connecticut. | | > Of course, he pays taxes to both towns. | | > ... | | > Several people approached for this story living on the | border said they'd rather not be quoted in an article about | how they were following the requirements because, generally | speaking, they were not. | | > ... | | > Even before COVID, there were complications on state | borders. What school do your kids go to? What cable service | do you get? To whom do you pay taxes, and in what amount? Who | plows your road? When you need to get your property fixed, do | you need a contractor licensed in both states? | | > For Father D. Timothy O'Mara, pastor of St. Paul's Church | in Blackstone, Massachusetts, and also North Smithfield, | Rhode Island, there are also advantages: Because the border | between Massachusetts and Rhode Island cuts right through | church property, he can offer weddings in either state. | | > "We definitely straddle the line," O'Mara said. | | > He's never had to do that, but according to church | folklore, it's happened before. A couple arrived on their | wedding day with a marriage license issued in Rhode Island. | But the church is part of the Roman Catholic Diocese of | Worcester. The astute priest took them to the back of the | church, the part of it that is in Rhode Island, where they | did the civil part of the ceremony, before heading back to | Massachusetts for the ceremony and nuptial Mass. | | > "Thus was the legality of the marriage ensured," the | church's official history proclaims. | djbusby wrote: | Property taxes in NH&MA. But since the mailing address is NH | no income tax. | cobertos wrote: | Are there two separate parcel IDs? One for each authority | in the respective state? Do you pay property tax on the | full acreage to each state or only on the partial acreage | in each state? | nine_k wrote: | (An obligatory joke about Haskell letting you transcend various | boundaries of what's considered possible.) | [deleted] | gaudat wrote: | According to their web site, you can visit the place without a US | visitor visa from the Canada side. As the only | entrance to the library is in the US, all non-American visitors | passing through US territory to enter the library must understand | that their movements will be monitored by the US Border Patrol | and the RCMP. Passports and visas are not necessary | to enter the Haskell Free Library & Opera House. However, please | be aware that both the US Border Patrol and the RCMP have the | right to ask to see personal identification and detain anyone who | is not of legal status. We do encourage you to bring your papers | with you, just in case. | | Also see Canusa Avenue just a km/mile or two to the west. Just as | the name described the Canada-US border runs through the middle | of the road. | nier wrote: | From the linked article: | | <<The line of tape on the floor was added to mark the exact | border line after a fire decades ago set off a fight between | insurance companies over who had to pay for damages, the tour | guide explained.>> ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-12-26 23:00 UTC)