[HN Gopher] Coaching engineering managers to take on organizatio...
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       Coaching engineering managers to take on organizational problems
        
       Author : jammons
       Score  : 87 points
       Date   : 2023-01-06 19:41 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jeffammons.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jeffammons.com)
        
       | a_c wrote:
       | Guess what, organization problem is a manifestation of a
       | collective world view of the organization. And adding feature is
       | always easier than refactoring/merging responsibility.
       | 
       | It is easy for a company building single page app to form an API,
       | an analytics team, an infra team, QA, slapping incremental
       | solution to solve their incremental problem. After having
       | specialised team, it is far harder to merge things into good old
       | Django with nginx where you can parse the log for analytics and
       | just serve fully rendered html. At this point people will start
       | saying their organization is different, we do it for "scale up"
       | sake. They are probably right and the WhatsApp/instagram path is
       | probably not for everyone.
       | 
       | Organization is the human version of software architecture. Do it
       | too much, too early, too little understanding will all have long
       | term, non-immediate, non-numerically justifiable effect. People
       | love to talk about these.
        
       | glitchc wrote:
       | I have trouble with the premise. Organizational problems are not
       | the hardest problems a company faces, not by a long shot. Rather,
       | organizational problems are a manifestation of leadership
       | dysfunction, and by leadership I mean senior leadership (board of
       | directors, CEO and down). They are easy to fix when the right-
       | minded people are in charge and impossible to fix when they're
       | not.
       | 
       | Unless engineering managers are promoted to the board, it's
       | unlikely they can make any change possible. Since the article
       | doesn't mention that, it's just marketing fluff.
        
         | jmole wrote:
         | Tell me you've never worked at a large company without telling
         | me you've never worked at a large company
        
       | subharmonicon wrote:
       | It looks like the actual title here is "Growing Leaders to Solve
       | the Hardest Problems", but the submission is different.
       | 
       | I believe HN policy is to post actual titles if possible, is that
       | right @dang?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | The title stuff is in the site guidelines
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
         | 
         | There's also a giant pile of additional title lore in the mod
         | comments.
         | 
         | @dang doesn't do anything but there's emailing which does work.
        
         | jammons wrote:
         | Sorry if I messed that up when posting it
        
           | hgsgm wrote:
           | No need to apologize for removing clickbait.
        
             | jammons wrote:
             | Thanks, yeah, I was trying to make it clear what the post
             | was about for anyone clicking.
        
       | mansoon wrote:
       | Don't ever take on organizational problems. You are working at a
       | company. The company is a sociopath. You have to act accordingly.
        
         | groby_b wrote:
         | "The company" is nothing, except what leadership makes it. As a
         | manager, that includes you. If everybody chooses not to care
         | about org problems? Guess what, that's a manifestation of
         | sociopathic behavior.
         | 
         | So, act accordingly.
        
         | reese_john wrote:
         | A company is not a single entity. Your experience can be very
         | different depending on your team, manager and department.
        
           | notyourwork wrote:
           | The experience only differs because of how much or little you
           | are sheltered from reality of the inter-organization
           | politics.
        
             | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
             | "Sheltered from the reality of inter-organization politics"
             | is a pretty wide bucket. I've been on teams that constantly
             | fight with each other to get resources and executive
             | attention, and I've been on teams that collaborate with
             | each other to make the best decisions taking into account
             | everyone's constraints and capabilities. In my experience
             | there's a huge qualitative difference that doesn't have
             | much to do with hiding or disguising anything.
        
         | mcrad wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | shawnz wrote:
         | And if that sociopath is offering you money to take on those
         | organizational problems, what's the according act in that case?
        
       | bb88 wrote:
       | Your engineering manager may not know:
       | 
       | * How to manage people.
       | 
       | I realize this is snarky in tone but in 2023 this still rings
       | true for many people.
       | 
       | Much of management doesn't know anything about engineering. Many
       | engineers don't know anything about managing people.
       | 
       | The worse the management the worse the politics.
        
         | mym1990 wrote:
         | In my current situation it feels like much of management
         | doesn't know anything about managing people :(
        
       | t3estabc wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | flerchin wrote:
       | Was this written by ChatGPT? Very generic.
        
         | jammons wrote:
         | Hah! Nope, 100% wet-neuron generated work here.
        
       | branperr wrote:
       | I don't think the class of problems talked about in here are
       | necessarily the biggest problems. Rather, it's politically
       | motivated decision-making. Not in the sense of _insert your pet
       | US politics issue_ , but rather about capturing influence within
       | the organization to make themselves status-y. For example, Google
       | managers over-inflating their team numbers to make their resume
       | look better.
        
       | esotericimpl wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | marktangotango wrote:
       | A lot of organizations have this problem, not covered in the
       | article:
       | 
       | > Anxiety, low abilities
       | 
       | I was once a software engineering manager at a company in the
       | financial services realm. This was a low margin business that had
       | suffered a decade of layoffs when I joined. It was a morass of
       | low effort, punch the clock, do just enough to get by teams and
       | leaders. Making any sort of forward progress was nearly
       | impossible. I gave it my best shot though, and managed to find
       | like minded people throughout the organization. We had a good
       | couple of years and made some real progress. Then the next round
       | of layoffs saw some of these key people let go.
       | 
       | It was very disappointing, but I too left after a time. After the
       | layoffs, 75% of my remaining team quit for better pay. My boss, a
       | director, gave me some support people who could spell "java" and
       | told me to train them up, because we weren't hiring (no one would
       | work for the company anyway, horrible reputation). Yep, that was
       | it for me, I resigned.
       | 
       | All that to say, at some point it's a business problem. I hope
       | others in similar situations don't stress as much as I did.
       | 
       | Edit: words
        
         | wahnfrieden wrote:
         | I hope your stake in ownership was commensurate to your
         | emotional stake!
        
           | [deleted]
        
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