[HN Gopher] The Shit Show
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Shit Show
        
       Author : chazeon
       Score  : 344 points
       Date   : 2023-01-15 21:14 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (furbo.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (furbo.org)
        
       | iLoveOncall wrote:
       | I guess everyone griefs differently, but I find making a parallel
       | between the death of your mother and your website being shutdown
       | particularly distasteful.
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | This is a moving post, I wish Craig and everyone else effected by
       | these events the best, onwards and upwards!
       | 
       | If these people _who pioneered the use of Twitter_ and
       | fundamentally steered how it developed through their community
       | contributions turn their experience to Mastodon and the
       | Fediverse, big things will come.
       | 
       | From the ashes of one thing can be built the future.
        
         | MonkeyMalarky wrote:
         | It should be liberating, no more working under ever worsening
         | constraints, someone just ripped off the band-aid and made the
         | hard choice for them. Didn't want to let go? Not sure of how
         | much effort and support to continue putting in? Problem solved!
         | The answer is zero. Zilch. Nada. Enjoy the free time!
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Loss of the product itself, however hard, can be dealt with.
           | It's the loss of the community that really stings.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | geerlingguy wrote:
       | I'm still waiting to hear any kind of official word, but it looks
       | pretty bleak.
       | 
       | Without Tweetbot, Twitter is almost impossible to use. Checking
       | in on https://tweetdeck.twitter.com/, the alternate UI, it's
       | almost usable, but still missing like 8 of the most important
       | features that made Twitter useful to me.
       | 
       | I have been posting sometimes on Mastodon but still primarily on
       | Twitter, waiting to see how things turned out. But if Tweetbot at
       | least isn't restored, I will switch roles and will likely try out
       | Mastodon for a while, posting just a little on Twitter.
       | 
       | The problem is, most of the "Fediverse" right now is a big echo
       | chamber (kind of like Voat was when Reddit had its weird issues a
       | few years back, or more charitably like a community like HN is...
       | it's not always bad as long as people are aware of it). So it's
       | not the same kind of community as Twitter had.
        
         | thejohnconway wrote:
         | Twitter was never one community though, of course. The amount
         | of interaction I had outside my bubble was really minimal. I
         | could see other people shouting at each other if I wanted to,
         | but of course I could do that without having an account.
        
         | nerdchum wrote:
         | I remember Voat! It started off with great intentions, just to
         | be a more free speech version of reddit and at the end was just
         | posts about Michelle Obama being a man and Qanon.
         | 
         | It was an interesting case study in how free speech can decline
         | to a lowest common denominator type situation.
        
         | kitsunesoba wrote:
         | I've been using Mastodon for the past couple of months for most
         | of the people I follow, but prior to that I had been using
         | Twitterific for Twitter because it was so much better for how I
         | used it.
         | 
         | Up until a couple of days ago I was still using Twitterific to
         | keep up with those who hadn't yet made the jump (mostly non-
         | tech-adjacent people/communities), but with the iOS version now
         | being dead my usage has seen a nosedive. For now I still check
         | every so often with the Mac version since it's still
         | functional, and if that dies then I'm going to try to figure
         | out alternatives for aforementioned communities (probably
         | Discord, but we'll see) and drop Twitter altogether. I have no
         | interest in the stock client/site whatsoever.
        
       | smitty1e wrote:
       | We have standards, sir. The show was upgraded to a "Crap
       | Cabaret".
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | The brand is losing so much credibility among developers, I guess
       | we'll see even fewer products with Twitter API as a core feature.
       | 
       | I know this has been a trend for the last couple of years but
       | this kind of lack of communication seems like a milestone.
        
       | ArmandGrillet wrote:
       | Well-written and touching post. To switch off this API used by so
       | many long-time users on the same day "For You" appears as the
       | default option on Twitter triggers me. The "For You" timeline is
       | only for Elon: it will drive engagement, extremism, and all the
       | things social networks have been accused of driving for years now
       | in order to make more $.
       | 
       | Some folks here have been comparing the crypto/Web3 and
       | ActivityPub craze recently but I see a massive difference. A
       | billionaire has spent the last 3 months shitting on what I
       | thought was my social backyard. Crypto and NFTs did not impact
       | how I use my bank accounts, Elon ruined in a quarter a very
       | special place I had crafted over a decade.
       | 
       | Mastodon is not great right now, the UX needs to vastly improve,
       | but all for-profit social networks have always disappointed in
       | the long run. Looking back, few technologies have kept the same
       | degree of greatness over the past 15 years: emails, torrents, RSS
       | feeds... only tools no corporation fully controls. I hope
       | ActivityPub can join that list fairly soon.
        
         | postmeta wrote:
         | I think he reached peak ad hominem: "a prick" "Space Karen"
         | "King Shithead" "shitty person" "arrogant bastard" "billionaire
         | bozo" "a clown"
        
           | Ensorceled wrote:
           | Insulting people who've done you harm is not an "ad hominem";
           | he's not debating Musk here.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | None of these are ad hominem arguments.
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | A billionaire attacking somebody else as "Pedo Guy" was peak
           | hominem plus outrageous power imbalance, and the post you're
           | replying to doesn't hold a candle to that. Plus Musk really
           | is "a prick" "Space Karen" "King Shithead" "shitty person"
           | "arrogant bastard" "billionaire bozo" "a clown". Truth is the
           | best defense against libel.
        
         | Wowfunhappy wrote:
         | What's wrong with Mastodon's UX? It's basically Twitter from
         | ten years ago. The whole federated thing is a bit confusing but
         | you can just use the default mastodon.social instance and not
         | think about it.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | You cannot in fact just use mastodon.social, because they
           | haven't been accepting signups since the great Enmuskening.
        
         | mikenew wrote:
         | I admit I don't use Twitter or Mastodon very much, but
         | Mastodon's UX seems pretty decent these days. At least 50% of
         | the time when I click on a Twitter link something breaks.
         | Either the page doesn't load or a video won't play or whatever.
         | And that's to say nothing of the "SIGN UP FOR TWITTER" bullshit
         | that pops up whenever you click on anything.
        
         | hhh wrote:
         | The 'For You' is the behavior i've had for a while. I'm happy
         | to be able to go to the Following tab. I'm tired of seeing 'X
         | follow' etc.
        
           | greenie_beans wrote:
           | you've been able to switch for a while but it wasn't obvious,
           | i kinda stumbled upon it one day.
           | 
           | i find the new tabs at the top of the screen take up too much
           | space and they scroll down when i go through my timeline. (i
           | browse on my laptop via firefox, no idea what the mobile
           | experience is like)
        
           | input_sh wrote:
           | You were able to switch to "latest tweets" before as well.
           | The control was top right next to "home" label, the icon
           | looked like stars.
           | 
           | The only thing that truly changed is "latest tweets" got
           | renamed to "following" and it now takes up more vertical
           | space (53 pixels to be exact) completely unnecessarily for
           | something you're quite unlikely to click on on a regular
           | basis.
           | 
           | Change for the sake of change. Doesn't actually have an
           | impact on anything.
        
         | warinukraine wrote:
         | > A billionaire has spent the last 3 months shitting on what I
         | thought was my social backyard.
         | 
         | I think Elon Musk is a horrible person, but... this one is on
         | you, right? You thought that a company's service was your
         | social backyard? That's on you.
        
           | leokennis wrote:
           | I imagine you believe the money you keep with the company
           | known as your bank is yours as well right?
           | 
           | Just because it's a company doesn't mean they get to behave
           | like assholes and then put the blame on their users for being
           | gullible or ignorant.
        
             | kaashif wrote:
             | I disagree somewhat with what that guy said but your
             | "counterpoint" is ridiculous.
             | 
             | Bank deposits are yours! If the bank collapses and can't
             | give them to you, there's FDIC insurance so the government
             | will get you that money.
             | 
             | This is nothing at all like Twitter and only weakens your
             | argument.
        
             | warinukraine wrote:
             | It's mine because the law says so.
        
           | Ensorceled wrote:
           | And you're defending the antics of a childish billionaire and
           | blaming the damage on the people he hurt. That's on you.
        
             | warinukraine wrote:
             | I'm defending the right to own property, which is something
             | really fundamental to the way we organize our society.
             | 
             | ... and when you say "the people that were hurt"... If you
             | leave your wallet on the street, it might be stolen and you
             | might be hurt. I'm not blaming the victim; someone stealing
             | your wallet is wrong even though you left it on the street.
             | It's not your fault, I'm not blaming you, I blame the thief
             | for the theft. On the other hand there's something that you
             | could've done that would've avoided it - don't leave your
             | wallet on the street.
        
               | Ensorceled wrote:
               | > I'm defending the right to own property, which is
               | something really fundamental to the way we organize our
               | society.
               | 
               | No one is trying to "steal" twitter in this thread, we
               | are saying he used his "property rights" to unnecessarily
               | hurt others.
               | 
               | You're the one who is saying this is just peachy keen and
               | "that's on you".
               | 
               | You're defending the harm.
        
               | aktenlage wrote:
               | Nah, you are defending _something that is based on_ the
               | right to own property (and do whatever you like with it),
               | but may nevertheless be shitty behavior. Just because
               | something is legal and the legal basis is important (in
               | your opinion), doesn 't necessarily mean it is ok
               | behavior.
               | 
               | E.g., being rude isn't forbidden, the freedom of speech
               | is important, so is the right to express your
               | personality. But lecturing the affected person about
               | these rights may not be the best reaction when they have
               | been insulted by someone.
               | 
               | I think the main point to discuss is not the rights, but
               | whether the owner of a company should act more
               | responsible, even if he is within his rights. And that's
               | also the point of the OP.
        
         | kome wrote:
         | > "For You" appears as the default option
         | 
         | The "for you" was already the default option, if anything they
         | made easier to switch to the "following" that before was kinda
         | hidden on top and hard to find.
         | 
         | p.s.: i dislike musk since it was cool to like him.
        
         | Spooky23 wrote:
         | I'm bullish on Mastodon with the influx of users. It's
         | _different_ than Twitter, but it's pretty awesome in its own
         | right.
         | 
         | Hopefully the different model will create something new and
         | amazing. Twitter had amazing elements, but it's sunset has
         | arrived!
        
       | IngvarLynn wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | bfgoodrich wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | graycat wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | Ensorceled wrote:
         | Maybe, just maybe, HN isn't for you?
        
       | Lammy wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | xupybd wrote:
         | A Karen is a personality type. They are not imputing the gender
         | on Elon but the personality. By applying the insult to men they
         | are de-gendering the insult.
         | 
         | Not that I like the term Space Karen.
        
           | Lammy wrote:
           | It became an insult because people hate women who stand up
           | for themselves. It can't be de-gendered.
        
             | adventurer wrote:
             | That's not what a Karen is or why people use it.
        
       | w0mbat wrote:
       | The "Space Karen" slur is lame. Elon is the manager in this
       | situation, and if you're complaining to the manager, you're the
       | Karen.
        
       | harrego wrote:
       | See also Paul Haddad's situation[1] (creator of TweetBot):
       | 
       | > I really want an official public statement. We have a large
       | number of sub. renewals for year 3 of Tweetbot coming up in a
       | couple of weeks. If we're permanently cut off I need to know so
       | we can remove the app from sale and prevent those. Which
       | obviously I'd rather not do.
       | 
       | [1] https://tapbots.social/@paul/109690528614720936
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | To the people who were already warning of things like this, in
       | the '80s and '90s, all the cries lately of "I let some rich guy
       | _own my social network_ ; how could I have known that would be
       | abused" might seem a bit /r/LeopardsAteMyFace.
        
       | birdyrooster wrote:
       | It's like when you exclaim "jesus christ" and are unwittingly
       | paying tribute to some assholes. I won't say his name anymore
       | either.
        
       | gnarbarian wrote:
       | He has every right to be mad but this post comes off as petulant
       | and juvenile.
        
         | rdlw wrote:
         | Well yeah, his life's work was destroyed at someone's whim with
         | the flick of a switch.
         | 
         | How many people would be gracious? Why should anyone be?
        
           | roarcher wrote:
           | His "life's work" is a fresh coat of paint on someone else's
           | creation, which is of questionable value to begin with. And
           | using his mother's death as a comedic prop in a public rant
           | doesn't exactly engender sympathy.
        
           | Espressosaurus wrote:
           | This is what happens when you rely on a service you have no
           | control over. It'll happen now, it'll happen later, but at
           | some point, somebody is going to decide they make more money
           | turning the thing you rely on off.
        
           | killdozer wrote:
           | Everyone should be a cold emotionless machine that pumps out
           | code, just like me.
        
         | bobleeswagger wrote:
         | > Space Karen
         | 
         | > billionaire bozo
         | 
         | > comparisons to his Mother's death
         | 
         | Yeah, I had a hard time getting through it. At least, I don't
         | get the point the author is trying to make.
         | 
         | Is this _really_ a surprise given the direction social data has
         | gone in the past decade or so? APIs will only remain public as
         | long as they are useful.
         | 
         | Elon sees an upside to making the API at twitter more private,
         | in order to maintain control over Twitter's direction. You can
         | argue as much as you want for, or against this, but don't add
         | noise and make me rake through it.
        
           | unpopular42 wrote:
           | Same thoughts. Someone's got to get emotions under control
        
         | dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
         | > petulant and juvenile
         | 
         | Who does that remind you of?
        
           | bobleeswagger wrote:
           | Haha space man bad
        
       | brap wrote:
       | This is a pretty childish take.
       | 
       | It's a business, it doesn't owe you anything. Calling the CEO
       | "Space Karen", "King Shithead" and such is just cringe, it's a
       | childish tantrum. Acting like not mentioning his name will
       | somehow affect him, one of the richest and most influential men
       | alive, is laughable.
       | 
       | Be an adult. You took a bet relying on a third party business,
       | and that bet didn't pay off. You are responsible. Take the L and
       | move on. Sorry.
        
       | waynecochran wrote:
       | Was the Twitter API taken down intentionally or is this a bug? If
       | intentional was it announced ahead of time? If its a bug, has
       | this happened before -- looks like in happened in July 2022
       | (https://api.twitterstat.us/history?page=3)?
        
         | rideontime wrote:
         | for 9 hours, and it was acknowledged. hardly comparable.
        
       | mattwilsonn888 wrote:
       | If federation was a worthwhile goal (in one's mind) after "the
       | bozo took over Twitter" then it is quite obvious _nothing_
       | fundamentally has changed such that federation would have been a
       | noble goal as a foil to previous Twitter management. Seriously -
       | if more personal sovereignty is the goal then complaining about
       | Twitter only after new management is admitting that the primary
       | quality you don 't like _is the new management._
       | 
       | In reality the argument for federation is as I've already said -
       | more personal sovereignty, less centralized, corruptible,
       | overlord control. Twitter is certainly doing much better now than
       | before, and that doesn't mean federated communities online still
       | are not, in principle, superior.
       | 
       | If someone wants to use crypto to do justify sentiment like this,
       | they'd be mocked here, but this is much better? It goes to show
       | that people denouncing different approaches often aren't doing it
       | because those approaches lack coherent justification, but because
       | those approaches are related to aspects of technology some people
       | don't like and don't care to examine.
       | 
       | There are plenty of reasons to lampoon the majority of approaches
       | 'crypto' takes to 'solve' problems - that doesn't mean one
       | shouldn't lampoon carefully and thoughtfully. Likewise, there is
       | reason to justify federated platforms, but a dislike of Elon
       | Musk's politics will not be the true driver.
        
         | klabb3 wrote:
         | > complaining about Twitter only after new management is
         | admitting that the primary quality you don't like is the new
         | management.
         | 
         | This rings very true. The move to Mastodon isn't likely to
         | translate into "...but why do we need speech owners at all".
         | Unaccountable and unjustified concentrated power is simply not
         | a concern to most. Once the dust settles, business as usual
         | will kick in. It'll either be a feudal lordship of mastodon
         | instances, or a brand new dickhead in a leather jacket.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | Can't think of mastodon as a competitor to twitter. I gave it a
       | shot and it feels like discord for twitter.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sysadm1n wrote:
       | I never relied on Twitter's API, since building stuff with it is
       | akin to building your castle on other people's land. You're
       | always going to be a tenant, and the API gatekeepers play
       | landlord and can rugpull you without notice.
       | 
       | But I'm looking into Nostr[0] as an alternative, aswell as
       | ActivityPub which seems to be working well these days.
       | 
       | Dorsey's Bluesky Social[1] looks promising too, but it's a very
       | late move since Twitter should have been a protocol from the
       | outset.
       | 
       | [0] https://nostr.com/
       | 
       | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluesky_(protocol)
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | I think (and have been saying this a bunch lately) that he's
       | right about ActivityPub and Mastodon, and that "a universal
       | timeline" is actually a really good way to put words to it. I was
       | a Mastodon hater for years, but having used it for the past month
       | or so with an actual community of people (really: the whole
       | community I interacted with on Twitter before), I have to admit
       | it: the ActivityPub people were right about this. It's easy to
       | see the potential, and how it pulls in the writing we were all
       | doing before there was Twitter while keeping most of what Twitter
       | was good for too.
       | 
       | I'm expecting this to be the second-dumbest thing I ever
       | predicted badly (I dismissed MP3s, too!)
        
         | pbronez wrote:
         | If you want to help make the Fediverse happen, there appears to
         | be a serious need for energy and ideas in the standards effort.
         | 
         | I have a thread going here
         | https://hachyderm.io/@PeterBronez/109688815511361197
         | 
         | But the upshot is, get involved with:
         | 
         | https://www.w3.org/community/socialcg/
        
           | riffic wrote:
           | The Fediverse has already happened. It's about to celebrate
           | its 15th year in a handful of months.
           | 
           | https://fediverse.party/en/post/fediverse-14-years-in-2022/
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | I was sceptical too, but at this point I would say 75% of the
         | people I followed who I really got value from have moved over.
         | But not only that, the conversation has become better, more in
         | depth and less fleeting.
         | 
         | I just hope the last few people I follow on Twitter who I
         | really enjoy following move over too. But unfortunately that's
         | "Space Twitter", so we will see...
        
         | zenmacro wrote:
         | Are there any guides, tools, apps, etc to try out ActivityPub?
        
           | hummingn3rd wrote:
           | Martin fowler made a guide from his own transition to
           | mastodon https://martinfowler.com/articles/exploring-
           | mastodon.html
        
         | warinukraine wrote:
         | May I ask what was your original argument against Mastodon?
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | I looked at in terms of the "Fediverse", a coherent
           | decentralized social network, with lots of instances
           | cooperating to make one intentional thing. I'm still not
           | bullish about that. But once you use it, you see that it's
           | basically hyper-interactive RSS.
           | 
           | (Maybe you see the two at the same thing; I don't.)
        
             | warinukraine wrote:
             | > I looked at in terms of the "Fediverse", a coherent
             | decentralized social network, with lots of instances
             | cooperating to make one intentional thing.
             | 
             | So what was your original argument against this?
        
               | tptacek wrote:
               | That it will never cohere. (That's about as much as I
               | want to say about this right now; this gets boring pretty
               | quickly.)
        
         | pmarreck wrote:
         | OK, I have to ask- What exactly was your argument against
         | MP3's? They literally let you transfer music with an order of
         | magnitude less data than it took on the CD! Was it an
         | audiophile argument, or...?
         | 
         | I was lucky enough to live in a freshman college dorm (a music-
         | focused dorm, no less!) circa 1997-1998 when Napster was still
         | a thing right after MP3's were a thing, and that shit was
         | _amaaaaazing_
         | 
         | I mean given how much people love music, I never had any doubt
         | that MP3's would be revolutionary
        
           | count wrote:
           | Napster didn't start until 1999 :) I remember downloading
           | mp3s on Napster, and then using my parallel port to transfer
           | them to my Diamond Rio MP3 player. All 4 songs at a time!
        
             | riceart wrote:
             | Before Napster there was FTP.
        
               | williamcotton wrote:
               | The first MP3 I downloaded was from IRC and played back
               | on the Fraunhofer Institute MP3 player. Old timers will
               | remember that if you caused your screen to redraw at all,
               | say by scrolling a window, the audio would skip. The
               | first song? Bob Dylan - Stuck in the Middle With You...
               | which is actually by Steeler's Wheel.
        
             | pmarreck wrote:
             | It was probably just FTP through the school's network then,
             | but I distinctly remember sharing MP3's like it was the
             | Wild West
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | In the set-associative cache that was my brain in 1998, MP3s
           | occupied the same slot as XDCC'd Amiga mods. But much bigger
           | files. I was carrying around giant folders of CDs at the
           | time. Also: you had to listen to them... on your computer? I
           | had a whole discrete stereo system. Why would I want to
           | listen to music through game speakers?
        
       | dom96 wrote:
       | Great post. I hope we see a multitude of new clients for
       | Mastodon. In the meantime, if you're someone like me that is
       | dipping their feet into Mastodon but isn't ready to leave Twitter
       | fully yet, then you might be interested in a browser extension I
       | developed[0] which puts Mastodon posts in your Twitter timeline.
       | 
       | [0] - https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mastodon-
       | chirper/l...
        
       | godelski wrote:
       | I've been thinking about social media a lot lately and how it has
       | changed my life. I'm only in my early 30's, but I think many
       | others my age grew up online and when the internet felt smaller,
       | but in a different way. I made life long friends through these
       | means. But something I've noticed is that as everyone has come
       | online, I have made fewer friends. What I personally miss is the
       | small niche communities. These don't seem to exist anymore. I
       | made several friends on sites like What.cd and found many artists
       | I would have never come into contact otherwise (even speaking
       | with many). Even friends on sites like Imgur when it was smaller,
       | but never once it grew. The global social media is cool and has
       | aspects that are nice to it (e.g. being able to talk to power),
       | but its same power is its greatest downfall (you can't speak to
       | your audience when your audience is everyone, filled with
       | different priors (how we interpret words), and different
       | willingness to act in good faith).
       | 
       | I see everyone talking about Twitter and how it needs to be
       | replaced. But I want to know how we remake these smaller
       | communities. That's what I miss about the internet. There are
       | clearly size thresholds for these. Finding them is often hard and
       | word of mouth. But what I want to know is how we make these
       | flourish and bring personhood back to the internet. We should
       | have both types of communities. But I don't think methods like
       | Mastadon or Reddit really facilitate this. I think many even have
       | seen this change as HN has grown. There are several people that I
       | recognize their names but as the community has grown we have too
       | seen a change in content, culture, and how we speak to one
       | another. For good or bad. But I do think it is nice to have small
       | communities as well that do develop their own cultures. Maybe I'm
       | just old now though.
        
         | Karrot_Kream wrote:
         | Most of the old niche groups (IRC groups, imageboards, forums,
         | etc) I used to spend time on just migrated into private spaces
         | once social media became a de facto public space on the
         | internet. These places usually live as Discord guilds, Matrix
         | spaces, Telegram group chats, private fora, Patreon groups,
         | alternate networks (such as: mailing lists, Gemini, Freenet,
         | Urbit, etc.)
         | 
         | I also feel like all this noise about Twitter is just the
         | Twitter early adopters realizing what the old IRC and
         | imageboard users knew long ago: social media is a semi-public
         | space now that everyone is online.
        
         | paulcole wrote:
         | > I'm only in my early 30's, but... [as time has gone on ]...
         | something I've noticed is that as everyone has come online, I
         | have made fewer friends
         | 
         | Welcome to your 30s. You will make fewer friends than you did
         | in your 20s.
        
         | api wrote:
         | The net was a very different place before, say, somewhere
         | between 2010 and 2015. I saw a huge shift then. Everything got
         | monetized, weaponized, optimized for addiction, or drowned in
         | spam. There's always been bad actors and criminals and trolls
         | online too but in the past decade they have either gotten worse
         | or become more empowered.
         | 
         | The golden age of the open Internet was really between about
         | 1996 when it started to go public and 2010. The net today feels
         | like either a ghost town or a hellhole. The only remaining good
         | places seem to be niche sites or groups and private forums. The
         | fediverse is decent but I am concerned for its long term future
         | if it becomes big enough to be a worthy target for spammers and
         | trolls.
         | 
         | As for the cause of the decline I can think of a few big
         | factors:
         | 
         | 1. Engagement maximizing algorithms give weight to the most
         | inflammatory content. These hit the scene big starting around
         | 2008. If you forced me to pick one root culprit I would blame
         | this.
         | 
         | 2. Thanks to monetized social media "Internet troll" is now a
         | career option. You can make money. You can maybe even become
         | the President of the United States.
         | 
         | 3. Speaking of politics, I think something changed when enough
         | people got online that the net became the major source for
         | political opinion. There is now not just money but power to be
         | gained by manipulating things online. This attracts a whole
         | different level of scum.
         | 
         | 4. Trolls have escalated to the point that people have died.
         | Mass shooters post their manifestos on boards now before they
         | go on killing sprees. Running a forum today is just not fun
         | anymore, especially if it's not narrowly focused and topical.
         | Nobody in their right mind would set up something like
         | Something Awful or 4chan today.
         | 
         | What happened to optimistic online cyber culture reminds me a
         | bit of what happened to the 1960s counterculture. In a few
         | years it went from exploration and optimism and art to Manson
         | and Altamont. There seems to be a pattern where whenever
         | humanity seems to be making a cultural breakthrough we get
         | naive and then things go real bad real fast.
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | _> But I don 't think methods like Mastadon or Reddit really
         | facilitate this._
         | 
         | Reddit offers two features for supporting intentionally-small
         | communities: first, you can restrict posting to accounts that
         | have been manually approved (although I think voting is still
         | open to anyone with a Reddit account), and secondly you can
         | make the subreddit private such that only approved accounts can
         | see its contents (which solves the aforementioned voting
         | problem).
         | 
         | As for Mastodon, that's a matter of setting up your own topical
         | instance and restricting who can make an account.
        
         | shrubble wrote:
         | I think that you make an interesting point. Having recently
         | become interested in vintage computers I have been spending
         | time with the forums at vcfed.org .
         | 
         | To be honest unplugging from the political outrage machine
         | helped my mental state...and I might in time make some friends
         | on that site...
        
         | nathias wrote:
         | they still exist on the fringes, there are forums from early
         | web, new forums, new types of tech (defi and crypto has a lot
         | of that)
        
           | kristianc wrote:
           | > new types of tech (defi and crypto has a lot of that)
           | 
           | I'm sure crypto and Defi has some good people, but a huge
           | proportion of them seem to be grifters and scammers who I'd
           | want nothing to do with. That wasn't really the case on the
           | early web.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | k__ wrote:
         | _" as everyone has come online, I have made fewer friends."_
         | 
         | Probably has to do with your age.
         | 
         | I made many friends in my 20s, most through the internet.
         | 
         | This got less and less as I grew older.
         | 
         | But I know a bunch of people in their 20s who still make
         | friends online.
        
       | madrox wrote:
       | This situation is heart breaking for us who have a lot of
       | attachment to this API. I built a research thesis around data
       | mining the firehose, and that work got me my first data mining
       | job. I made hundreds of valuable connections. However, the API
       | really died years ago when requirements of ad-based revenue meant
       | neutering many endpoints. It's been on life support since. Recent
       | events really were about pulling the plug.
       | 
       | But Mastodon excites me the way I used to be excited about
       | social. There's possibility again to turn it into the things we
       | gave up on a decade ago. I look forward to a new wave of
       | innovation here.
       | 
       | And yes, I refuse to say the name of the company or the owner at
       | this point. I agree with the author. It isn't deserved.
        
       | throwmeup123 wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | ygggvbbjiuygvf wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | throwmeup123 wrote:
           | [flagged]
        
       | okokwhatever wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | crummy wrote:
         | this guy spent 16 years writing and maintaining a Twitter
         | client
        
       | antiquark wrote:
       | Twitter has been crippling their API long before "Space Hilter"
       | took over.
       | 
       | https://tidbits.com/2018/08/20/twitter-cripples-third-party-...
        
         | retrocryptid wrote:
         | Space Hitler? That's the kind of hyperbole that seriously
         | undercuts your credibility. Mr. Musk is "Space Mussolini" at
         | best.
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | Given how many of us used third party apps I wouldn't say it
         | was crippled.
         | 
         | And there are only two examples given: streaming and push
         | notifications.
         | 
         | The first as Twitter pointed out was because it was only ever a
         | beta feature and even today their own apps don't support this
         | feature.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Yes that is mentioned in the opening paragraphs of the article.
        
       | mkoc wrote:
       | Not sure how it is for others, but for me tapbot Tweetbot is
       | working again since today; is the API back up?
        
         | cmcfadden wrote:
         | Paul mentioned that they had a way to push new API info to the
         | clients, so I think they basically just re-registered the app
         | as a YOLO thing to see how long until Twitter pulls the plug
         | again.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | I was able to get an access token, and my timeline loads in
         | Tweetbot, but I can't see mentions or activity, and I can't
         | tweet from it.
        
         | clouddrover wrote:
         | Tweetbot partially works because they're using new API keys:
         | 
         | https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/15/23556359/tweetbot-twitter...
         | 
         | It's a temporary workaround at best. The new API access is rate
         | limited and Tweetbot will likely be banned again.
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | Imagine being this mad about putting all your eggs in a basket
       | you have zero control over, not seeing the massive existential
       | risk of that single point of failure, and then whining like an
       | entitled Gen Z'er when the inevitable happens
        
         | pxtail wrote:
         | Yep, it makes no sense - fueling, empowering someone's private
         | property,even voluntarily helping to sidestep/skip platform
         | shortcomings to make it dominant player instead of promoting
         | open standards and solutions and then surprise, "Pikachu face"
         | 
         | I'm perceiving Asahi Linux initiative in similar way and it's
         | astonishing to see people putting countless man-hours for free
         | into improving device produced by one of richest companies in
         | the world which is known for having full controll on sofware
         | and hardware intentionally and steadily making it as locked as
         | possible, hostile to OS What could go wrong here..
        
       | Lio wrote:
       | I've had the Mastodon client downloaded for a while now but
       | haven't really got round to switching over to it.
       | 
       | I think this is the push I really need. Space Karen has done me a
       | favour.
       | 
       | I sure as shit won't be going back to Twitter's dumpster fire of
       | a native client.
       | 
       | Edited timelines, promoted tweets and user preferences that
       | randomly reset themselves to the most annoying settings.
       | 
       | Nope.
        
       | Ciantic wrote:
       | End of an era.
       | 
       | I like that he sees that ActivityPub should be so much more than
       | Mastodon. "a truly universal timeline" of various things on the
       | internet.
       | 
       | For that to happen we can't limit ourselves to just Mastodon, but
       | start building alternative takes.
       | 
       | Yes, some aren't viewable on other clients, but that's fine, then
       | they just show a link, but at least you can reply/reblog/like
       | items.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | I just hope we walk before we try to run. It feels like
         | Mastodon has been given a colossal opportunity and it feels
         | like it's being completely squandered.
         | 
         | I trust that Space Jerk will give Mastodon a very long
         | opportunity window but the sooner the better.
         | 
         | Maybe revolution is a good idea and I'm completely wrong. But I
         | still find Mastodon so frustrating and unreliable that I am
         | just not on social media at all now.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | Apparently as a baby I learned to run before walking so I
           | want to defend doing it that way.
           | 
           | Running is a bit easier than walking, walking is a process of
           | carefully balancing at each step. Running is just falling,
           | but you catch yourself before you hit the ground. As long as
           | you aren't too concerned with steering, you can easily at
           | least run until you find an obstacle. And then you've learned
           | about a new type of obstacle!
           | 
           | Even the fastest baby should have trouble getting into
           | trouble as long as the parents are attentive -- they are tiny
           | and parents have long arms to catch them.
           | 
           | Babies barely have the capability to generate enough kinetic
           | energy to harm themselves I'm pretty sure.
           | 
           | Or I dunno, at least I survived. Apply this to your analogy
           | as you'd like.
        
             | Waterluvian wrote:
             | _me typing out a definition for running that dictates that
             | it's not just stumbling recklessly forward in style, all
             | for an analogy_
             | 
             | "You're probably wondering how I got here..."
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | Haha, fair enough. Hopefully the slightly tongue in cheek
               | nature of my post came through.
               | 
               | I've always understood this to be what the expression was
               | about, though. Skipping the first step to jump recklessly
               | and possibly incorrectly to the second.
        
               | Waterluvian wrote:
               | Hahah indeed. Hence my ridiculous reply.
               | 
               | Yeah I'm not sure I feel strongly about my own opinion. I
               | think I'm just worried that a bunch of engineers, in
               | absence of designers and product, are going to do what
               | engineers do best: find fun technical problems to solve.
        
           | thejohnconway wrote:
           | Just curious, what is unreliable for you? My setup is as
           | reliable as Twitter ever was for me (I run my own server).
           | Some things are annoying of course, but I'm a little
           | surprised techy people would find those rough edges so bad
           | they wouldn't use it.
        
             | Waterluvian wrote:
             | I'm not on the same server as all my Twitter friends and I
             | cannot get my timeline to reliably update with everyone's
             | Toots and Goots.
             | 
             | It works if I catch up the next morning. But there is no
             | reliable ability for real-time Toot Blooting.
             | 
             | In all fairness I took two weeks off. Maybe it's better. Or
             | maybe I need to try another server (three tries so far.)
             | 
             | Figuring out what server to pick was ridiculous. I
             | eventually decided "just find a really popular one." But
             | they were all just crashing out when making an account or
             | were closed to new accounts.
             | 
             | I misunderstood what "federated" meant because I also
             | learned that it really matters what server you're on. It's
             | not like email. The length of your Toot is different, rules
             | of what you Toot is different. The stuff on your server is
             | a bit more first class than what's on other servers. And my
             | Toot Boots didn't Doot Doot or Bloot Flute.
        
           | tomcam wrote:
           | How would you un-squander Mastodon?
        
           | Ciantic wrote:
           | I feel like it was squandered as well, but I don't blame
           | anyone on that, Mastodon core team employed their second
           | person last month full-time.
           | 
           | When the next wave comes I hope if Mastodon can't get its act
           | together there are commercial offerings that can take the
           | wave, and I'm all for it. Cloudflare is building its own
           | Mastodon API-compatible server, and Medium put its own
           | instance.
        
             | Waterluvian wrote:
             | This is what I'm super pumped about. Because of the
             | fundamentals of the technology, big actors with resources
             | to do it properly can make Mastodon awesome, without
             | completely capturing the social network.
        
         | scarface74 wrote:
         | Micro blog supports ActivityPub
         | 
         | https://help.micro.blog/t/mastodon-and-activitypub/95
        
           | input_sh wrote:
           | There's actually a lot of software projects, Mastodon is just
           | by far the most popular one.
           | 
           | On top of my head: Pixelfed (Instagram alternative), Peertube
           | (YouTube alternative), Pleroma (another Twitter-like
           | microblog), Bookwyrm (Goodreads alternative), Funkwhale (like
           | a mashup between Soundcloud and a podcast host), Owncast
           | (Twitch alternative), Mobilizon (event organizing), lemmy
           | (reddit alternative)...
           | 
           | They're all rather tiny and unpolished, having even less
           | resources to work with than Mastodon, but you should be able
           | to follow a user on any of them from Mastodon. At least in
           | theory, haven't tried with all of them.
           | 
           | The annoying thing in my opinion is that you can't have a
           | set-in-stone identity and then use different frontends for
           | different purposes, kind of like you can on Facebook for
           | groups/events/marketplace/stories. You have to have an
           | account on all of them to make use of all features, even
           | though they're all relying on the same protocol to a certain
           | extent.
        
       | ygggvbbjiuygvf wrote:
       | It's not even clear that they "pulled the plug", could just be a
       | temporary outage. Wish Musk would announce his thoughts on the
       | future of the API, though.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Regardless of how it started, a "temporary outage" that has
         | lasted for several days and has received zero acknowledgement
         | from the company can now be considered intentional. They don't
         | get the benefit of doubt without sending even a bare minimum
         | "sorry, we are working on fixing it" tweet.
        
         | Kwpolska wrote:
         | Can a "temporary outage" be limited only to the most popular
         | apps? Can a "temporary outage" affect Twitterrific for iOS but
         | not Twitterrific for Mac [0]?
         | 
         | [0] https://blog.iconfactory.com/2023/01/state-of-the-
         | twitterver...
        
       | rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | servercobra wrote:
         | Losing your business like this has to be infuriating, but
         | that's always the risk building your business on top of someone
         | else's business. However, the writing style completely
         | undercuts the message with the name calling. I wonder if Craig
         | will still pull the plug now that the API seems to be back up.
        
           | rideontime wrote:
           | where have you heard that the API is back up for those who've
           | been banned? only thing I've seen is that some have worked
           | around their bans by getting new API keys
        
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