[HN Gopher] The Quest for a Dumber Phone
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Quest for a Dumber Phone
        
       Author : kevin_hu
       Score  : 100 points
       Date   : 2023-01-17 17:42 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (every.to)
 (TXT) w3m dump (every.to)
        
       | BirAdam wrote:
       | I bought a Mudita Pure. I don't use it. I just wanted to support
       | the creation of a dumb phone that aligned with my principles.
       | Unfortunately for me, having a smart phone is essentially a
       | requirement for both my work and my family. I am unwilling to
       | give up either of these and therefore the smartphone is present.
       | 
       | In general, I agree with many commenters here. Separate devices
       | with dedicated purposes tend to do a better job, and smartphones
       | are designed to be both useful and addictive. As a result, I view
       | the smartphone as a very dangerous tool. It can be used to great
       | effectiveness, and it can become a blight on society.
       | 
       | When I was a child, I dreamed of a computer roughly the size of
       | beeper that had no screen. Instead, I thought people would have a
       | headset similar to Apple's wired earbuds with a microphone and
       | we'd compute via voice with an internet connection to fetch data.
       | Sadly, we're here 30 years later and there's still no sign of
       | such a future. Amazon tried, Apple is trying, Google is trying,
       | and no one is winning in that space. Apparently, it's both hard
       | and unwanted. Today, I think my idea was naive, because such a
       | device would likely play a minute thirty of ads before giving you
       | the result of your query, and I would end up tossing the thing
       | out the window of a moving car.
        
         | jareklupinski wrote:
         | the interface you mentioned reminds me of how people in the
         | movie "Her" interact with their futuristic devices
         | 
         | they still use a smaller display they keep in their pocket for
         | visual content, but it exists as an accessory to view things
         | queued up by the voice interface
         | 
         | I love the idea and the approach, I wish there was a way I can
         | use this on a real subway (in the movie there seemed to be a
         | lot more distance between people/users)
        
           | BirAdam wrote:
           | I never saw "Her", but I suppose I will give it a watch.
        
       | bovermyer wrote:
       | What about landlines? I feel like that's an option people rarely
       | talk about.
       | 
       | I use my iPhone as a camera, for text chatting with (less than 5)
       | people, and for navigation, mostly. Sometimes I use it as a
       | phone. I could see replacing the phone feature (except for
       | emergencies) with a landline.
        
         | cpsns wrote:
         | Due to where I live I have to maintain a wired phone as I can't
         | get a reliable cell signal.
         | 
         | I just have a voip phone adapter connected to a random old
         | phone and I use voip.ms for the actual service. It costs
         | effectively nothing to run. It's not a landline in the
         | transitional sense, but those largely don't exist anymore.
        
           | bovermyer wrote:
           | My house still has phone wiring and my ISP still offers
           | landline services, and I'm not in a primitive area.
        
             | cpsns wrote:
             | Yes, but it's probably not a landline in the way most
             | people think. Almost all those services use voip backends
             | now with only the last mile being copper.
        
               | 310260 wrote:
               | Exactly! And especially if it's provided by a cable ISP.
               | It's just VoIP. Maybe with some QoS on their network and
               | battery backup.
               | 
               | It's not a real circuit-switched network with its own
               | power supply like traditional POTS service.
        
       | drbeast wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | imwillofficial wrote:
       | I had a LightPhone 2 and it was great. Unfortunately with my
       | work, I need slack and such so it couldn't be my daily driver.
        
       | AstixAndBelix wrote:
       | I've realized there's a single simple thing that makes these dumb
       | phones useless:
       | 
       |  _closed source_.
       | 
       | That's right, closed source services.
       | 
       | If we were able to write our own minimal Messenger, Whatsapp,
       | Signal, Viber, etc. clients without fear of getting a cease and
       | desist letter from a trillion dollar company we could easily
       | sideload them into any phone with an internet connection.
       | 
       | Phones are meant to be used for communication, but communication
       | is not SMSs or emails anymore, it's a bunch of proprietary
       | services which dictate what platforms we can use to access them.
        
         | ploum wrote:
         | Exactly that. I'm also worried to see KaiOS phones featuring
         | proeminent Google apps. I don't want Google in a minimal phone.
         | 
         | That's why I've really big hopes for Mudita: they open-sourced
         | their whole OS (I didn't checked the code but it seems to be
         | fully on github).
         | 
         | My biggest problem with dumbphones is that, in Belgium, nearly
         | all banks now require you to use their app. (my solution so
         | far: keeping an old smartphone with broken screen in a drawer,
         | only for banking purposes).
         | 
         | Also, I realized that my use is completely different while
         | traveling: I've an app for belgian railway, I synchronize PDF
         | tickets to my phone and I also need the companion app for my
         | bike GPS. My solution so far: using the Hisense A5, with eink
         | screen. No google, most apps don't work but bike GPS works
         | great. Problem is that Firefox and Protonmail also work great,
         | which is not a minimal phone anymore.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | > without fear of getting a cease and desist letter
         | 
         | Seems like the problem is the law and legal system being abused
         | to prevent adversarial interoperability. The official clients
         | being closed source doesn't change anything.
        
       | luxuryballs wrote:
       | I wish I could give up iMessage but I can't, mostly due to peer
       | pressure. Likewise, I don't see how I could ever use SMS again
       | when messages are so easily obtainable that they may as well be
       | considered public. People have been charged with driving related
       | crimes just based off of timestamps on SMS messages, for one
       | example, and they didn't need a warrant. I'm unable to comprehend
       | why anyone would think it's wise to use SMS.
        
       | inasmuch wrote:
       | I'm grateful to not have much of a problem with my smartphone
       | usage, but I often find myself researching dumb phones in search
       | of something somehow better because I quite dislike my phone (and
       | all the others I've seen/heard of) as a device. It's too big, I
       | hate touchscreens, and I hate Bluetooth.
       | 
       | I'd like to see someone develop a new smartphone platform with
       | all the niceties like GPS, a decent camera, easy cloud (and/or
       | manual) backups of my data, and either a lot of onboard storage
       | or easy SD compatibility, but offer it in a completely different
       | physical format that is more conducive to efficient, intermittent
       | productive/tool-like use and less tuned for consumption. Small
       | form factor, maybe a fold-out QWERTY keyboard (my LG Env3 is the
       | only phone I've ever actually liked), headphone jack, etc.
       | Something reasonably durable that can take a drop or be submerged
       | and simply won't be "fun" enough to spend much passive time on.
       | 
       | As for apps, I like all my basics to be built by the same company
       | that built the hardware, but combining that with an open platform
       | for third-party options seems like an easy win, even if I don't
       | end up using those other apps myself.
       | 
       | I recently got my old iPod up and running again because I loathe
       | the touchscreen/Bluetooth headphone combination for listening to
       | music. But it feels so stupid to be carrying an additional
       | device. I now carry a camera with me too because I dislike
       | smartphone image processing. This also feels stupid.
       | 
       | It's silly that we've concluded the only two options are pocket
       | computers that can't do much at all, or pocket computers that can
       | do anything, but only in this one way that many people find
       | harmful.
        
       | Derawk wrote:
       | The most helpful thing I've done was to set my iphone screen to
       | grayscale by default [1]. Now if I look at my phone for any
       | period of time and then look up the whole world appears to be so
       | colorful (even in the dead of winter). The choice of how to spend
       | my time becomes easier and I still have a smartphone in order to
       | live comfortably in the urban world (open qr code menus, order
       | car or scooter rides, present digital documentation or event
       | tickets, etc.)
       | 
       | [1] https://intercom.help/flipdapp/en/articles/1970782-how-to-
       | se...
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | Here's an example of living with the light phone:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7G1pWYVtBg
       | 
       | Honestly I think using an Android phone with minimal apps, or
       | having two profiles, one for work, one for play/weekends makes
       | the most sense. And on iPhone using screen time to force your
       | grip from app vices makes more sense than the self punishment of
       | these phones.
       | 
       | That said my ADHD makes me want to buy one of these
       | https://skysedge.com/unsmartphones/RUSP/index.html
        
         | ajsnigrutin wrote:
         | > Here's an example of living with the light phone:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7G1pWYVtBg
         | 
         | That's expensive for a phone with basically zero features...
         | 
         | Why not just buy a nokia 3310 (the new one) for around 60eur,
         | where you get a better, faster phone, with basically the same
         | limitations as any other of the dumbphones, but it's cheaper
         | and works faster and has a better screen? Also, the ergonomics
         | are better, dual sim, sd card slot for music... and again, no
         | apps, no emails, no notifications.. just a phone as it used to
         | be (well.. with music and bluetooth).
        
           | dbalatero wrote:
           | This idea of "more features, better deal" is a common thing
           | people bring up. However, one of the stronger "features" that
           | draws me to the Light Phone is that they are an opinionated
           | company that designs their product specifically to prevent
           | the distraction/engagement-seeking style of apps that are so
           | prevalent in smartphone ecosystems.
           | 
           | Whether or not that's a feature that resonates with you is,
           | of course, another story!
           | 
           | For me I have the money, would like to vote with it by
           | supporting a company aligned with my interests, and don't
           | mind paying that premium. You might have different finances
           | and prefer the $60 EUR option, and that's fine too.
           | 
           | If you check out Jose's channel (from the article), he
           | reviews tons of these phones and there's likely a sweet spot
           | in there for most people that are curious.
        
           | sparrish wrote:
           | Because texting on a Nokia touchpad is terrible plus I'd like
           | to have driving directions and prompts.
        
       | andrew-dc wrote:
       | Having not used a smart phone for ~5 years now, I can say that it
       | is totally a workable solution - however, there are, of course
       | trade-offs, and several persistent annoyances. Rather than get
       | into a list, I will present the one thing that I find the most
       | frustrating:
       | 
       | Our society expects you to have and use a smart phone for nearly
       | everything.
       | 
       | This might be less annoying if it meant only new functions or
       | supplemented old things, but in my experience it's the opposite.
       | It's often the most simple low-fi things we have been doing for
       | ages, that have been overhauled to require a smartphone, app, and
       | data plan. It's hard to be looked at as 'the person complicating
       | things', when everybody else expects you to carry a luxury item
       | (and an expensive monthly service bill), just to perform a basic
       | task, like paying a bill, or reading a menu.
       | 
       | I'm not one to wander around expecting society to cater to my own
       | needs, but I openly admit that I find this Twilight Zone-like
       | first-world problem (What do you mean, you can't use our app?)
       | the most infuriating.
       | 
       | With that said, you can still get by in most situations, but I
       | don't see the above getting better on into the future, unless
       | there is some cultural revolution about how view and use
       | technology.
        
         | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
         | https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2021/02/15/91-of-u...
        
         | titanomachy wrote:
         | Calling a smartphone a "luxury item" if you live in America (or
         | similar) is a bit disingenuous. Anything that has 85% market
         | penetration is by definition not a luxury item.
         | 
         | In some countries this could be an accurate description,
         | though. And I agree with the overall sentiment, I would like it
         | to be easier to get through my day without using a smartphone.
        
           | throwaway4aday wrote:
           | It adheres to the definition. The problem with the phrasing
           | is that nearly all people in America and many other countries
           | are inundated with luxury items to the point where we view
           | them as basic necessities. That doesn't make them
           | necessities, they are still lifestyle choices that while more
           | affordable than ever are still superfluous to our existence.
           | 
           | In other words, we're all spoiled brats ;)
        
             | chefkoch wrote:
             | At least in Germany you get a Smartphone for way less than
             | 100EUR and a call + SMS + 4GB data flat for 5EUR. If that
             | is luxury what is going to the cinema for 20EUR (movie and
             | popcorn) for 2 hours?
        
           | lastofthemojito wrote:
           | Yeah, even as a smartphone owner, I find it annoying how some
           | places just assume you're able (and willing!) to install some
           | arbitrary app to do business with them, etc.
           | 
           | That being said, it really doesn't have to be all that
           | expensive. Sure, if you buy the newest iPhone every year and
           | get a high-end Verizon plan, that'll cost some dough. But you
           | can get a used or low-end smartphone and a cheap plan -
           | they're out there: https://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-cheap-
           | cell-phone-plans,rev...
        
         | parker_mountain wrote:
         | > luxury item (and an expensive monthly service bill)
         | 
         | Before applying any subsidies for low income people, you can
         | get a perfectly usable smartphone for under $40 and unlimited
         | data cell service (slow but usable for basic tasks) for
         | $10/month. An iPhone, with service, can be had for a total of
         | under $50/month.
         | 
         | These aren't luxury items anymore.
        
       | wheelerof4te wrote:
       | I really wish that the world gravitated towards more hardware-
       | related gadgety future.
       | 
       | I was quite fond of the Japanese vision of future, where there is
       | an item/gadget/accessory for everything. That way, people could
       | choose to which degree they want to interact with their
       | technology.
       | 
       | But here we are, stuck in the IoT software-focused world.
        
         | QuercusMax wrote:
         | Or even the Star Trek (TNG-era) future - people put things on
         | PADDs which seem to generally be for individual purposes /
         | projects. They're cheap / disposable (replicable?), and are
         | treated more like physical paper notebooks than expensive smart
         | tablets.
        
       | TSiege wrote:
       | This was a very thoughtful piece. I appreciate the honest
       | discussion of the struggle between giving up great apps for the
       | sake of being distraction free. I've looked into the light phone
       | but there's no support for Spotify, which is a big detractor for.
       | I believe they added basic map functionality, but no streaming
       | music is hard as my taste has exceeded my personal digital
       | library
        
         | disantlor wrote:
         | consider streaming/downloading (& supporting) independant radio
         | like WFMU.org
         | 
         | not saying it's going to scratch all the itches that Spotify
         | would, but it definitely will scratch some you didnt realize
         | you had, which is a fun experience on it's own
        
         | dbalatero wrote:
         | I have a separate audio player that I was carrying with my flip
         | before I went to the Light Phone. A bunch of them have Spotify
         | support, and it seems like you can spend from $100 to $400 to
         | $800 to $thousands, depending on your appetite. Separate
         | devices has its downsides (net price can be higher, more pocket
         | space), but also has the upside of having devices focused and
         | potentially higher quality. An option if you're thinking of it!
        
       | blacklion wrote:
       | It is interesting to see how different communication patterns are
       | compating to your own bubble.
       | 
       | For me dumb phone is no use, as I don't use cellular voice for
       | anything (I've talk with my friends and parents on daily basis,
       | but it is always Telegram/Skype voice call, not cellular voice),
       | and only usage of SMS for me is force-feeded 2FA for banks and
       | other services which don't know better (unfortunately)...
       | 
       | Who will I call, we all are all around the Globe? Why I will
       | text?.. Ok, week ago I had birthday party and there were a fair
       | amount of guests, so some of my friends now in same location as
       | me. Do they have local phone numbers? I bet, they have, because
       | without it it is impossible to open bank account or rent a flat.
       | Do I know these numbers? No. Because for what reason, we all
       | communicate in messengers for years. These accounts are fixed
       | identities for us, and phone numbers are for governments and
       | banks.
       | 
       | I could simply turn off my smartphone with same effect as have
       | dumb phone :-)
       | 
       | Oh, maybe, I need to call ambulance once a year...
       | 
       | Edit:
       | 
       | Idea of phone which is technically LTE Modem with all chat/voice
       | protocols under the unified phone-like interface, plus ability to
       | run some offline GPS, like Organic Maps or OsmAnd, looks good,
       | but politically impossible due to close nature of most chat/voice
       | apps.
        
         | dorchadas wrote:
         | This is my issue. I wish I had a _dumber_ phone. Like, one that
         | allowed only certain things by default - messaging apps, gps
         | trackers, Spotify being the big ones. If there was one like
         | that, I 'd buy it almost immediately.
        
       | cheesetoastie wrote:
       | This turns any phone into a dumb phone for free :)
       | 
       | https://specialprojects.studio/project/envelope/
        
       | setgree wrote:
       | I long for a dumber phone, but I've been thinking about all the
       | supplementary devices I'd need to buy to make up for it --
       | basically a printer (+ ink) for tickets and a GPS device with car
       | ride services and google maps built in for getting around.
       | 
       | I _feel_ as though I need those things, at any rate.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | > I've been thinking about all the supplementary devices I'd
         | need to buy to make up for it -- basically a printer (+ ink)
         | for tickets and a GPS device with car ride services and google
         | maps built in for getting around.
         | 
         | I've got a printer at home. Sister in law printed a plane
         | ticket on it the other day, just in case there'd be an issue
         | with her phone. Instead of "GPS device + car ride services"
         | I've got an old-fashioned thing: a car. The car happens to have
         | its own GPS so I can get around.
         | 
         | It may not suit everybody of course.
        
           | setgree wrote:
           | I am with you until the car bit, but I live in Brooklyn and
           | haven't driven in years. Google Maps is essential for me, I
           | fear
        
             | dbalatero wrote:
             | I'm also in Brooklyn. Light Phone 2 has directions
             | including MTA transit. For tickets, I do print them out.
             | 
             | Sometimes I'll draw a little map for fun and use that
             | instead of the phone directions, for simple things. Once I
             | draw the map I find that I actually memorize 90% of it
             | anyways and often don't end up looking at it.
             | 
             | As for car ride services, I just stopped using them except
             | for super essential times, at which point I can pull my
             | iPhone out of a drawer.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | You can have a tablet in the car for maps and use the phone's
         | hotspot feature to connect it (or download the maps in advance
         | if you think about it).
         | 
         | But that's still two devices instead of one, which ends up
         | being more complicated, not less.
        
       | jdlyga wrote:
       | For me, having an iPhone helps. On Android, I'm always
       | downloading new keyboards, launchers, and endlessly tweaking the
       | device. There isn't a lot to customize on an iPhone, so I'm not
       | distracted by tinkering, breaking things, and fixing them. I do
       | that enough on my other devices, and it's not something I want in
       | my pocket distracting me constantly. It's the same reason why I
       | go with Gnome distros for a computer I'm trying to do work on (I
       | am endlessly distracted by KDE's customizability).
        
       | college_physics wrote:
       | It takes only a tiny fraction of a smartphone's capabilities to
       | make us dumb.
       | 
       | The endless scrolling and liking on social (which is now a
       | pandemic) could arguably be served by a much slimmed down device.
       | NB: Maybe thats something Meta should build and offer "for free".
       | 
       | I dont know how we could ever get immunized against big tech
       | dumbness and start really using smartphones in smart ways. They
       | pack exceptional hardware. Mine even has an FM radio (thats
       | something to do with electromagnetic waves).
       | 
       | Its just a matter of software. Which is a matter of mindsets,
       | control and economics. I like to think that a society that
       | manages to truly use smartphones as smart devices will get to the
       | next level of civilization
        
       | rhacker wrote:
       | Smart "Phones" would have:
       | 
       | Automatic Recording (of all calls) - with prompts optionally
       | (consent), Speech to Text, Spam Protection, "Captchas for calls"
       | 
       | Instead we got this:
       | 
       | https://i.etsystatic.com/28431667/r/il/d1a61f/3334764950/il_...
       | 
       | with a browser in it.
        
       | nyx_land wrote:
       | The problem with trying to replace a smartphone with a dumbphone
       | is that most people (young people at least) don't use calling and
       | texting anymore unless forced to. I'd rather have something in
       | between a laptop and a smartphone that is designed to be
       | comfortable for carrying around in a small bag or pocket, but
       | that also has a physical keyboard and is designed to be used
       | productively for programming or writing for example.
       | 
       | As it stands, smartphones are the worst of both worlds though:
       | the form factor of what is essentially a legacy communication
       | device, but none of the human interfaces necessary to make it
       | useful enough to really take advantage of all its computing power
       | (and often also its software cripples the device unless you're
       | running a custom android ROM). What people hate about smartphones
       | isn't that they're constantly plugged in but that they have a
       | device on them all the time that is basically designed to turn
       | the user into the ideal consumer: a passive addict with no
       | attention span. If it was more common to have access to portable
       | hardware that is designed to empower users being creative and
       | productive, maybe it'd be a different story.
       | 
       | But then again, I think most human beings probably want exactly
       | what they're getting with smartphones and are miserable and
       | alienated at the human condition itself of being so susceptible
       | to seeking out low effort short term dopamine feedback loops.
        
         | thfuran wrote:
         | >I'd rather have something in between a laptop and a smartphone
         | that is designed to be comfortable for carrying around in a
         | small bag or pocket, but that also has a physical keyboard and
         | is designed to be used productively for programming or writing
         | for example.
         | 
         | Something like what? A small laptop is little more than a
         | display attached to a thin keyboard. I'm not sure how you'd get
         | something much smaller while retaining a physical keyboard and
         | still being reasonably useable for programming.
        
       | kibwen wrote:
       | I recently "upgraded" to a new phone, not because I wanted to,
       | but because my prior phone was too old to receive security
       | updates. The new phone, despite being newer tech, is abjectly
       | worse at being a usable device: the fingerprint is in a worse
       | location and has terrible accuracy, scrolling or zooming anything
       | is a stuttering nightmare, it's too heavy and wide to be
       | comfortably used one-handed, and so on. It's so much worse it
       | makes me not want to use it. And, ironically, being discouraged
       | from using my phone has made me marginally happier throughout the
       | day. So thanks, I guess, for making an inferior product??
        
         | neogodless wrote:
         | What research and shopping criteria should one employ to ensure
         | they get an objectively worse phone?
        
       | beebeepka wrote:
       | This thread makes me feel like a geezer but I am not even that
       | old. "Resisting to install / use apps" sounds alien to me.
       | 
       | I feel society has moved on and we're pretty much expected to
       | have these devices. I even bought one for my job because they
       | require an auth and I have to verify its me again at random
       | intervals. So secure, so authenticated. I hate it
        
       | DerekBickerton wrote:
       | It's not some burdensome 'quest' though. Just get a Nokia 105[0]
       | which uses the Series 30[1] operating system and has no Internet
       | connectivity. It comes preloaded with a few basic games so you
       | can kill time waiting for things or pacify yourself in awkward
       | social situations.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-105
       | 
       | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_30%2B
        
       | dbalatero wrote:
       | I had a flip phone the last year and switched to a Light Phone 2
       | the other day after I dropped the flip phone and broke some
       | internal connections. It's been great for my focus, information
       | overload, and the minor inconveniences are, well, minor. The next
       | OS is supposed to get calendars + 2-way sync, so between that and
       | directions/music/podcasts, it's a pretty full featured device
       | while still preventing a lot of mindless engagement.
       | 
       | Occasionally I break out the iPhone for a Lyft ride to the
       | airport or something, but beyond that there hasn't been much of a
       | need.
        
       | em500 wrote:
       | Focusing on the phone seems like missing the mark. The addictive
       | thing is not the phone, but the internet. Even with a dumbphone
       | you can easily waste as much time on your laptop's web-browser
       | (and people did: FB and Youtube were already big before the
       | iPhone was a thing).
       | 
       | Conversely, if you turn off data, there are not many
       | possibilities to spend huge amounts of time on your phone. (And
       | yes, there are still plenty of useful offline smartphone apps.)
        
         | rr888 wrote:
         | Slowing down internet to a crawl works for me too. Once I hit
         | my data limit it runs at 128 kb/s which is perfect. I just wish
         | it ran at that speed all the time.
        
         | wwweston wrote:
         | When I finally got a smart phone 5 years after the iPhone came
         | out, one of the first things I tried to do was train myself by
         | _not_ getting service on it for over 3 months. The idea was to
         | make sure I had other kinds of content on it that weren 't
         | update-hits; mostly eBooks and saved long-form articles, plus
         | some map apps for navigation. So data engagement was limited to
         | WiFi islands and focused on practical business.
         | 
         | This was definitely only partially effective, probably because
         | I already had bad habits from my laptop. OTOH, to this day I do
         | have at least a rudimentary deeper reading/writing flow for my
         | phone I can focus on without too much conscious effort, so it
         | wasn't useless.
         | 
         | My conclusion is that most of us probably would benefit from
         | either intentional choices or self-imposed restrictions... but
         | most of us could also probably benefit more from a combination
         | of both.
        
           | ignoramous wrote:
           | > _My conclusion is that most of us probably would benefit
           | from either intentional choices or self-imposed
           | restrictions... but most of us could also probably benefit
           | more from a combination of both._
           | 
           | This sentence is a good tldr for the book, _Atomic Habits_.
        
         | stagger87 wrote:
         | It's not the bottle that's addictive, it's the alcohol inside.
         | Just don't open the bottle and there are not many possibilities
         | to drink!
        
           | rhn_mk1 wrote:
           | You make it sound as if alcohol was the only thing ever found
           | in bottles.
        
         | fleddr wrote:
         | Definitely a key insight: every attempt to be less addicted to
         | your smartphone will fail if you do not fill up that void of
         | newly available time with something more productive, healthy,
         | etc.
         | 
         | The good news is that you don't need to set a very high bar for
         | a better use of this free time. Read a book. Go on a small walk
         | around the block. Take care of your garden, if you have one. Do
         | simple chores. Do nothing at all. Almost anything is better
         | than smartphone usage.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | You don't need a dumb phone, you just need decide who's in
       | charge. I used to want a dumb phone, but there are a few things
       | (mainly maps/navigation) that I find genuinely useful that dumb
       | phones can't do.
       | 
       | So I decided that it's my phone and I'm the one who decides how
       | to use it.
       | 
       | I have a reasonably new iPhone. I spend maybe 15 minutes a day on
       | it (excluding navigation), total.
       | 
       | I have removed apps I don't use. I disabled Siri, FaceID, most
       | notifications, and location is turned off unless I'm using maps.
       | I have one page on my home screen and there are maybe a dozen
       | apps on it (and that still includes a few I have never used so I
       | could pare down further).
        
         | throwaway4aday wrote:
         | I'm glad you're able to resist temptation so well. For others
         | it can be more of a problem. For some it is equivalent to an
         | alcoholic carrying around a pint of vodka that also happens to
         | make phone calls.
        
       | hcal wrote:
       | I've been using my Samsung smartwatch with LTE as a smartphone
       | that's hard to abuse. Thursday through Sunday I only carry it and
       | leave my "real" phone at home.
       | 
       | It's pretty nice because I still have Bluetooth calls in my car
       | and navigation in a pinch. I can still stream music and ask
       | Google to look things up for me.
       | 
       | Actual calls on the watch are fine, but I do keep a pair of
       | bluetooth headphones on me so I don't have to take business calls
       | on speakerphone.
       | 
       | If texting is your addiction, technically this doesn't solve it
       | but it doesn't increase the friction so maybe it's less of a
       | temptation. I don't text that much so it's not a big deal to me.
       | Doomscrolling is my downfall and fortunately not really doable on
       | a watch.
        
         | trekkie1024 wrote:
         | Likewise, with an Apple Watch. Works great but only issue is
         | the battery life < a day when it's being used that way.
        
         | andrew-dc wrote:
         | Oh man, I have been wondering about this experience myself -
         | though if it would all work with no smartphone at all (I have
         | been rolling with the LightPhone II for a few years now).
         | 
         | It had seemed like stand-alone watches were nearly there, but
         | not quite the last time I dug into it. But it works for you?
        
       | ttthomas wrote:
       | I too have quested for a Dumber Phone. As an easily distracted
       | engineer who values my time, I enjoy being on a dumb device,
       | particularly one without Maps. Things hat I've tried:
       | - Punkt MP02 (Pigeon): small black & white Android phone with a
       | non-standard launcher. Doesn't support MMS on Google Fi, which is
       | needed to participate with friends & family (USA), so it sits on
       | a shelf.            - Unihertz Atom: tiny Android phone, storage
       | chip began dying within 3 months. Supports MMS, but my previous
       | company's MDM locked it out due to a lack of recent security
       | updates and their phone plan required a login to receive MMS!
       | 
       | I also looked into the Hisense e-Ink phones (Android), but they
       | are hacky to use this it in the USA (lack of frequencies & Google
       | Play). In eventually realized that I already had perfectly good
       | hardware (Pixel 4) that I could turn into a dumb-phone without
       | generating more e-waste. I began compiling my own locked-down
       | distro, but in the end I just wrote a shell script to turn an
       | Android phone into a dumb phone:
       | https://github.com/tstromberg/quietude. For example:
       | - For a truly "dumb" phone: `quietude.sh disable all`       -
       | Disable distractions but keep the app store: `quietude.sh disable
       | distractions`
       | 
       | The key here is that apps are disabled in a way which can only be
       | enabled again by plugging the phone in with a USB cable. This
       | keeps me from mindlessly re-enabling apps when I am bored in line
       | somewhere. I also get to keep PagerDuty, Plugshare, Lyft, Google
       | Photos, and whatever other apps I find convenient to have
       | available.
        
         | dbalatero wrote:
         | I'm a Light Phone user, but I really like the look of your
         | quietude script. It seems like a really flexible option.
        
         | krunck wrote:
         | I've got a Punkt MP01. I love it. I charge it every two weeks.
         | It's durable. And it works. There is a problem with it not
         | working with group SMS. The MP02(current version) fixes this I
         | think.
        
       | extr0pian wrote:
       | I had researched dumb phones recently only to learn that the two
       | most important functions of a smartphone (for me) is the GPS and
       | having a decent camera, and these things are either crippled or
       | missing entirely from dumb phones. It's simply easier to dumb
       | down your existing smartphone, especially if you have an Android
       | phone.
       | 
       | In my case, I have a 2017 Pixel 2 XL running LineageOS, with a
       | text only home screen launcher (OLauncher). I only have SMS,
       | phone/contacts, camera, open street maps, KOReader, Music,
       | Podcasts, Notes, and Calculator. That's it. Everything else has
       | been purged or disabled, including the web browser, via ADB.
       | 
       | I don't really use it all unless I'm driving. I wrote about my
       | setup here: https://chuck.is/phone
        
         | devoutsalsa wrote:
         | Being about to use various instant messaging platforms,
         | especially WhatsApp, is also nice.
        
           | extr0pian wrote:
           | I had Signal installed for a while, but ultimately removed it
           | because it's mostly friends sending stupid memes, breaking
           | whatever I was concentrating on seemingly at random. I do
           | have it running on my laptop.
        
             | tut-urut-utut wrote:
             | You know you can mute notifications and ignore until you
             | decide to look into it?
        
           | gog wrote:
           | Nokia has a model that works with WhatsApp.
        
         | MSFT_Edging wrote:
         | I'm in a similar boat. GPS, Camera, but also Telegram and a
         | basic browser for reference.
         | 
         | Dumbing down a smart phone doesn't fix the size and
         | delicateness of the device either. I essentially want a tiny
         | durable smartphone, ie size of an iPhone 3g.
         | 
         | My biggest thing is I hate how important this device is while
         | also being unwieldy and easy to break. The only entertainment I
         | use on my phone is twitter and even then I find it easy to stop
         | scrolling.
         | 
         | I want the abilities of a smart phone, but something I can keep
         | on me without worrying about it, like wearing a watch or how I
         | can throw around my wallet.
        
           | trekkie1024 wrote:
           | Try a smartwatch with cellular connectivity?
        
         | letmeinhere wrote:
         | I'll have to check out OLauncher. I use and adore another open
         | source text launcher: KISS
        
         | red-iron-pine wrote:
         | Literally tried to upgrade my Pixel 2 XL to Lineage and it
         | failed repeatedly. Reddit says, no joke, it's the cable that's
         | the problem. Sigh. Same computer didn't have issues flashing
         | old Galaxy and Nexus phones.
         | 
         | Bought a dumb phone but found it lacking for your exact reasons
         | -- no GPS, crappy camera, and texting using the number pad was
         | tedious as all hell.
         | 
         | Gave up, got a Pixel 7, might think about flashing it.
        
           | extr0pian wrote:
           | > Literally tried to upgrade my Pixel 2 XL to Lineage and it
           | failed repeatedly. Reddit says, no joke, it's the cable
           | that's the problem.
           | 
           | I recently started having issues with the data functionality
           | of the port. I can't get ADB to run at all, it will only
           | charge. The power button also doesn't work so I've had to set
           | it to shut off the screen by holding down the "Recents"
           | button.
           | 
           | > Bought a dumb phone but found it lacking for your exact
           | reasons
           | 
           | I like the idea of dumb phones, but I don't want to have to
           | buy separate things like a digital camera, GPS, mp3 player,
           | etc. Seems like it's just adding more complexity.
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | > Reddit says, no joke, it's the cable that's the problem.
           | 
           | Not surprising. My experience across a few different Android
           | devices over the years is just about all USB-related
           | functionality is a flaky mess, and that includes things like
           | ADB and installing new ROMs. _How_ it 's flaky varies from
           | device to device which makes it extra fun.
        
             | kfarr wrote:
             | Can confirm with Android phones and vr headsets that ADB
             | access can definitely be affected by choice of cable. Talk
             | about face palm, but it is what it us
        
         | at-fates-hands wrote:
         | Have you looked into any of the Jolla devices? You can get a
         | Sony Experia phone with Linux SailfishOS preinstalled on it for
         | less than $500:
         | 
         | https://buy.jolla-devices.com/
         | 
         | Or even installing CalyxOS? You can get a Pixel 5a 5G phone
         | (selling on ebay for under $200) and then install CalyxOS on
         | it.
         | 
         | https://calyxos.org/
         | 
         | I'm going to grab one of the Jolla devices and give it a test
         | drive next month. I think there's decent alternative out there
         | where you can still maintain your privacy without having to
         | step all the way down to a "dumb phone".
        
         | stonogo wrote:
         | I'm sorry, but I don't understand your first sentence. You
         | researched dumbphones and discovered they're not smartphones?
         | I'm struggling to understand what you thought you were going to
         | find.
        
           | resfirestar wrote:
           | Feature phones in the later '00s usually had cameras, it's
           | not a feature that started with smartphones.
        
       | marttt wrote:
       | I've intentionally never owned a smartphone. Dumb phones
       | abandoned by my family have been serving me very well for years
       | (strategy: use them until they stop working; get next one;
       | repeat).
       | 
       | My daily work is in forestry, as a brush cutter -- occasionally,
       | GPS would be necessary (unavoidable even). For 95% of the cases,
       | though, I've found a workaround by postponing the map-related
       | tasks (e.g. making sure I understand the borders of a particular
       | forest subcompartment correctly) to the next day and hand-drawing
       | the shape of the subcompartment from an online map to a piece of
       | paper. With the drawing in hand, I can usually accurately confirm
       | the borders by visual observation. Once more, this probably only
       | works for simple blue collars, not for guys that need to do more
       | on-site planning.
       | 
       | Other than that, I occasionally miss a tolerable camera (for
       | digitizing expenditure checks) and QR code reading ability.
       | 
       | All in all, living with old dumb phone is fun. Zero cost if you
       | break it or ruin it in the forest (mud!). I hate my current
       | Nokia, though -- but can't ditch it because _it still works_ ,
       | lol. I still miss my Nokia 3310 (the original one), which I used
       | every day for 12(!) years in a row, starting in around 2001 as a
       | high school student and finally letting it go in around 2013 when
       | I was a young father. It was one hell of a phone.
       | 
       | My current favorite oldscool dumb phones are the "senior phones"
       | with huge buttons. This ZTE s202 was really enjoyable to use
       | (belonged to my grandpa), and the no-bs design somehow feels
       | really elegant:
       | https://i.hinnavaatlus.ee/p/1200/99/43/S20220must__6ee8.jpg
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | I use a Nokia 6030 phone; the old indestructible brick one. It
       | still works where I am. But I don't use it because I want to get
       | away from the internet. I just don't use smart phones because
       | they're terrible computers. I use a computer for computing, a GPS
       | for navigation, and a camera for photos. And each of these
       | devices is better at it's job with fewer downsides than any
       | general purpose device.
       | 
       | Mostly the "smart phones/internet/etc" are ruining society
       | reaction is the same type of thing as the reactions to the
       | introduction to newspapers/books, electricity, radio, television,
       | etc. These were all destroying society and addicting the youth.
       | But they aren't addictive. The only existing medically recognized
       | behavioral addiction (ie, not a real addiction like to a drug
       | like methamphetamine) is "gambling disorder".
        
       | xcambar wrote:
       | > Disclosure: Every [the website every.to] co-founder and CEO Dan
       | Shipper is an investor in Light.
       | 
       | I do appreciate the disclosure.
        
         | yadoomerta wrote:
         | idk why you're being downvoted, it did read like an insidious
         | content marketing piece. At least there was a disclosure.
         | 
         | With that said, I've been trying to lock down my smartphone to
         | offline-only apps + text + calls, totally agree with the
         | mission, I've felt so much more distractable of late
        
       | patchorang wrote:
       | I've posted this here before, but I've figured out a way that
       | makes an iPhone work as a semi-smart phone for me.
       | 
       | I delete all app that I waste time in, but keep one that are
       | useful. (I won't blow two hours scrolling Lyft, and it's very
       | helpful sometimes) I then set screentime permissions to block
       | websites I don't want to use (like reddit), and prevent app
       | downloads. I set a screentime password and give it to my partner.
       | 
       | This way I get all the "benefits" of a smartphone with none of
       | the scrolling and time wasting. It's also very easy to switch it
       | back to a full smartphone, get the password from my partner and
       | turn off screentime. I'll do this when I travel internationally
       | for work.
       | 
       | Hope this setup helps some others.
        
         | aag2113 wrote:
         | How do you manage app updates?
         | 
         | I ask because I've been trying to make this system work for me,
         | but find that the app update flow (partner unlocks phone ->
         | update apps -> partner locks phone) always breaks and I end up
         | with an unrestricted phone.
         | 
         | The fact that you can't allow updates while also not allowing
         | installation of new apps is a huge blocker here for me.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | This reminds me of when my dad used to ask my mother to hide
         | the peanut butter so he couldn't find it. He was still fat, so
         | clearly that wasn't a perfect solution.
        
           | googlryas wrote:
           | Maybe he would have been really fat if he didn't hide it
        
         | danfolkes wrote:
         | I did the same thing this New Years. Blocked email, safari, all
         | non-important applications. Kept things like: message, fb
         | messenger, fitbit, camera, etc.
         | 
         | If I really need to know the answer to something, I will ask
         | Siri. And most things I just add to my to-do list for looking
         | up the information later.
         | 
         | It's been great!
        
         | giantrobot wrote:
         | I don't use many apps outside a browser, e-mail, and text. Two
         | things that help me are I leave my phone on silent all the time
         | and I disable all notifications. I can't stand notifications. I
         | don't need them. I'm not 911, no one is contacting me with a
         | life threatening emergency, I'll get back to their call or text
         | whenever.
         | 
         | I love having a smartphone because it's a cybernetic appliance.
         | It's awesome. I just don't need it constantly occupying my
         | attention. It's annoying how many apps, even system ones, that
         | want to show notifications all the time. I wish iOS supported
         | an affirmative toggle, let me disable all notifications by
         | default and then let me turn them on one by one. Do not disturb
         | by default and let me affirmatively enable "ok to disturb". I
         | filed ERs to that effect when I was at Apple but I'm sure they
         | went to the Future/NTBF black hole.
        
         | nlavezzo wrote:
         | I've done this in the past too and it works. Right now though I
         | have it set so that I know the passcode to unlock it all, but
         | that small amount of pain to go and unlock it is enough to make
         | me pause and think about whether I actually do need to check
         | the news, etc. Very rarely is the answer yes, but when I do
         | need an actual smart phone (confirm a ticket on some random
         | website for example) it's nice to have the ability to do so.
         | Just have to have the discipline to lock it back down!
        
         | jihadjihad wrote:
         | Not sure if it's a typo but how in the world would a person
         | spend 2 hours "scrolling Lyft"?
        
           | dbalatero wrote:
           | Re-read the comment, they said they are _keeping_ Lyft
           | because there's no way to doomscroll it for 2 hours.
        
           | aradox66 wrote:
           | Their point is that you can't, there's basically no way for
           | it to be entertaining, so it's a safe app to keep available
           | if you're prone to waste time scrolling.
        
           | procinct wrote:
           | They're saying they don't need to worry about having lyft on
           | their phone because they aren't going to spend hours
           | scrolling it.
        
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