[HN Gopher] The Quest for a Dumber Phone ___________________________________________________________________ The Quest for a Dumber Phone Author : kevin_hu Score : 100 points Date : 2023-01-17 17:42 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (every.to) (TXT) w3m dump (every.to) | BirAdam wrote: | I bought a Mudita Pure. I don't use it. I just wanted to support | the creation of a dumb phone that aligned with my principles. | Unfortunately for me, having a smart phone is essentially a | requirement for both my work and my family. I am unwilling to | give up either of these and therefore the smartphone is present. | | In general, I agree with many commenters here. Separate devices | with dedicated purposes tend to do a better job, and smartphones | are designed to be both useful and addictive. As a result, I view | the smartphone as a very dangerous tool. It can be used to great | effectiveness, and it can become a blight on society. | | When I was a child, I dreamed of a computer roughly the size of | beeper that had no screen. Instead, I thought people would have a | headset similar to Apple's wired earbuds with a microphone and | we'd compute via voice with an internet connection to fetch data. | Sadly, we're here 30 years later and there's still no sign of | such a future. Amazon tried, Apple is trying, Google is trying, | and no one is winning in that space. Apparently, it's both hard | and unwanted. Today, I think my idea was naive, because such a | device would likely play a minute thirty of ads before giving you | the result of your query, and I would end up tossing the thing | out the window of a moving car. | jareklupinski wrote: | the interface you mentioned reminds me of how people in the | movie "Her" interact with their futuristic devices | | they still use a smaller display they keep in their pocket for | visual content, but it exists as an accessory to view things | queued up by the voice interface | | I love the idea and the approach, I wish there was a way I can | use this on a real subway (in the movie there seemed to be a | lot more distance between people/users) | BirAdam wrote: | I never saw "Her", but I suppose I will give it a watch. | bovermyer wrote: | What about landlines? I feel like that's an option people rarely | talk about. | | I use my iPhone as a camera, for text chatting with (less than 5) | people, and for navigation, mostly. Sometimes I use it as a | phone. I could see replacing the phone feature (except for | emergencies) with a landline. | cpsns wrote: | Due to where I live I have to maintain a wired phone as I can't | get a reliable cell signal. | | I just have a voip phone adapter connected to a random old | phone and I use voip.ms for the actual service. It costs | effectively nothing to run. It's not a landline in the | transitional sense, but those largely don't exist anymore. | bovermyer wrote: | My house still has phone wiring and my ISP still offers | landline services, and I'm not in a primitive area. | cpsns wrote: | Yes, but it's probably not a landline in the way most | people think. Almost all those services use voip backends | now with only the last mile being copper. | 310260 wrote: | Exactly! And especially if it's provided by a cable ISP. | It's just VoIP. Maybe with some QoS on their network and | battery backup. | | It's not a real circuit-switched network with its own | power supply like traditional POTS service. | drbeast wrote: | [dead] | imwillofficial wrote: | I had a LightPhone 2 and it was great. Unfortunately with my | work, I need slack and such so it couldn't be my daily driver. | AstixAndBelix wrote: | I've realized there's a single simple thing that makes these dumb | phones useless: | | _closed source_. | | That's right, closed source services. | | If we were able to write our own minimal Messenger, Whatsapp, | Signal, Viber, etc. clients without fear of getting a cease and | desist letter from a trillion dollar company we could easily | sideload them into any phone with an internet connection. | | Phones are meant to be used for communication, but communication | is not SMSs or emails anymore, it's a bunch of proprietary | services which dictate what platforms we can use to access them. | ploum wrote: | Exactly that. I'm also worried to see KaiOS phones featuring | proeminent Google apps. I don't want Google in a minimal phone. | | That's why I've really big hopes for Mudita: they open-sourced | their whole OS (I didn't checked the code but it seems to be | fully on github). | | My biggest problem with dumbphones is that, in Belgium, nearly | all banks now require you to use their app. (my solution so | far: keeping an old smartphone with broken screen in a drawer, | only for banking purposes). | | Also, I realized that my use is completely different while | traveling: I've an app for belgian railway, I synchronize PDF | tickets to my phone and I also need the companion app for my | bike GPS. My solution so far: using the Hisense A5, with eink | screen. No google, most apps don't work but bike GPS works | great. Problem is that Firefox and Protonmail also work great, | which is not a minimal phone anymore. | Nextgrid wrote: | > without fear of getting a cease and desist letter | | Seems like the problem is the law and legal system being abused | to prevent adversarial interoperability. The official clients | being closed source doesn't change anything. | luxuryballs wrote: | I wish I could give up iMessage but I can't, mostly due to peer | pressure. Likewise, I don't see how I could ever use SMS again | when messages are so easily obtainable that they may as well be | considered public. People have been charged with driving related | crimes just based off of timestamps on SMS messages, for one | example, and they didn't need a warrant. I'm unable to comprehend | why anyone would think it's wise to use SMS. | inasmuch wrote: | I'm grateful to not have much of a problem with my smartphone | usage, but I often find myself researching dumb phones in search | of something somehow better because I quite dislike my phone (and | all the others I've seen/heard of) as a device. It's too big, I | hate touchscreens, and I hate Bluetooth. | | I'd like to see someone develop a new smartphone platform with | all the niceties like GPS, a decent camera, easy cloud (and/or | manual) backups of my data, and either a lot of onboard storage | or easy SD compatibility, but offer it in a completely different | physical format that is more conducive to efficient, intermittent | productive/tool-like use and less tuned for consumption. Small | form factor, maybe a fold-out QWERTY keyboard (my LG Env3 is the | only phone I've ever actually liked), headphone jack, etc. | Something reasonably durable that can take a drop or be submerged | and simply won't be "fun" enough to spend much passive time on. | | As for apps, I like all my basics to be built by the same company | that built the hardware, but combining that with an open platform | for third-party options seems like an easy win, even if I don't | end up using those other apps myself. | | I recently got my old iPod up and running again because I loathe | the touchscreen/Bluetooth headphone combination for listening to | music. But it feels so stupid to be carrying an additional | device. I now carry a camera with me too because I dislike | smartphone image processing. This also feels stupid. | | It's silly that we've concluded the only two options are pocket | computers that can't do much at all, or pocket computers that can | do anything, but only in this one way that many people find | harmful. | Derawk wrote: | The most helpful thing I've done was to set my iphone screen to | grayscale by default [1]. Now if I look at my phone for any | period of time and then look up the whole world appears to be so | colorful (even in the dead of winter). The choice of how to spend | my time becomes easier and I still have a smartphone in order to | live comfortably in the urban world (open qr code menus, order | car or scooter rides, present digital documentation or event | tickets, etc.) | | [1] https://intercom.help/flipdapp/en/articles/1970782-how-to- | se... | post_break wrote: | Here's an example of living with the light phone: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7G1pWYVtBg | | Honestly I think using an Android phone with minimal apps, or | having two profiles, one for work, one for play/weekends makes | the most sense. And on iPhone using screen time to force your | grip from app vices makes more sense than the self punishment of | these phones. | | That said my ADHD makes me want to buy one of these | https://skysedge.com/unsmartphones/RUSP/index.html | ajsnigrutin wrote: | > Here's an example of living with the light phone: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7G1pWYVtBg | | That's expensive for a phone with basically zero features... | | Why not just buy a nokia 3310 (the new one) for around 60eur, | where you get a better, faster phone, with basically the same | limitations as any other of the dumbphones, but it's cheaper | and works faster and has a better screen? Also, the ergonomics | are better, dual sim, sd card slot for music... and again, no | apps, no emails, no notifications.. just a phone as it used to | be (well.. with music and bluetooth). | dbalatero wrote: | This idea of "more features, better deal" is a common thing | people bring up. However, one of the stronger "features" that | draws me to the Light Phone is that they are an opinionated | company that designs their product specifically to prevent | the distraction/engagement-seeking style of apps that are so | prevalent in smartphone ecosystems. | | Whether or not that's a feature that resonates with you is, | of course, another story! | | For me I have the money, would like to vote with it by | supporting a company aligned with my interests, and don't | mind paying that premium. You might have different finances | and prefer the $60 EUR option, and that's fine too. | | If you check out Jose's channel (from the article), he | reviews tons of these phones and there's likely a sweet spot | in there for most people that are curious. | sparrish wrote: | Because texting on a Nokia touchpad is terrible plus I'd like | to have driving directions and prompts. | andrew-dc wrote: | Having not used a smart phone for ~5 years now, I can say that it | is totally a workable solution - however, there are, of course | trade-offs, and several persistent annoyances. Rather than get | into a list, I will present the one thing that I find the most | frustrating: | | Our society expects you to have and use a smart phone for nearly | everything. | | This might be less annoying if it meant only new functions or | supplemented old things, but in my experience it's the opposite. | It's often the most simple low-fi things we have been doing for | ages, that have been overhauled to require a smartphone, app, and | data plan. It's hard to be looked at as 'the person complicating | things', when everybody else expects you to carry a luxury item | (and an expensive monthly service bill), just to perform a basic | task, like paying a bill, or reading a menu. | | I'm not one to wander around expecting society to cater to my own | needs, but I openly admit that I find this Twilight Zone-like | first-world problem (What do you mean, you can't use our app?) | the most infuriating. | | With that said, you can still get by in most situations, but I | don't see the above getting better on into the future, unless | there is some cultural revolution about how view and use | technology. | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: | https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2021/02/15/91-of-u... | titanomachy wrote: | Calling a smartphone a "luxury item" if you live in America (or | similar) is a bit disingenuous. Anything that has 85% market | penetration is by definition not a luxury item. | | In some countries this could be an accurate description, | though. And I agree with the overall sentiment, I would like it | to be easier to get through my day without using a smartphone. | throwaway4aday wrote: | It adheres to the definition. The problem with the phrasing | is that nearly all people in America and many other countries | are inundated with luxury items to the point where we view | them as basic necessities. That doesn't make them | necessities, they are still lifestyle choices that while more | affordable than ever are still superfluous to our existence. | | In other words, we're all spoiled brats ;) | chefkoch wrote: | At least in Germany you get a Smartphone for way less than | 100EUR and a call + SMS + 4GB data flat for 5EUR. If that | is luxury what is going to the cinema for 20EUR (movie and | popcorn) for 2 hours? | lastofthemojito wrote: | Yeah, even as a smartphone owner, I find it annoying how some | places just assume you're able (and willing!) to install some | arbitrary app to do business with them, etc. | | That being said, it really doesn't have to be all that | expensive. Sure, if you buy the newest iPhone every year and | get a high-end Verizon plan, that'll cost some dough. But you | can get a used or low-end smartphone and a cheap plan - | they're out there: https://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-cheap- | cell-phone-plans,rev... | parker_mountain wrote: | > luxury item (and an expensive monthly service bill) | | Before applying any subsidies for low income people, you can | get a perfectly usable smartphone for under $40 and unlimited | data cell service (slow but usable for basic tasks) for | $10/month. An iPhone, with service, can be had for a total of | under $50/month. | | These aren't luxury items anymore. | wheelerof4te wrote: | I really wish that the world gravitated towards more hardware- | related gadgety future. | | I was quite fond of the Japanese vision of future, where there is | an item/gadget/accessory for everything. That way, people could | choose to which degree they want to interact with their | technology. | | But here we are, stuck in the IoT software-focused world. | QuercusMax wrote: | Or even the Star Trek (TNG-era) future - people put things on | PADDs which seem to generally be for individual purposes / | projects. They're cheap / disposable (replicable?), and are | treated more like physical paper notebooks than expensive smart | tablets. | TSiege wrote: | This was a very thoughtful piece. I appreciate the honest | discussion of the struggle between giving up great apps for the | sake of being distraction free. I've looked into the light phone | but there's no support for Spotify, which is a big detractor for. | I believe they added basic map functionality, but no streaming | music is hard as my taste has exceeded my personal digital | library | disantlor wrote: | consider streaming/downloading (& supporting) independant radio | like WFMU.org | | not saying it's going to scratch all the itches that Spotify | would, but it definitely will scratch some you didnt realize | you had, which is a fun experience on it's own | dbalatero wrote: | I have a separate audio player that I was carrying with my flip | before I went to the Light Phone. A bunch of them have Spotify | support, and it seems like you can spend from $100 to $400 to | $800 to $thousands, depending on your appetite. Separate | devices has its downsides (net price can be higher, more pocket | space), but also has the upside of having devices focused and | potentially higher quality. An option if you're thinking of it! | blacklion wrote: | It is interesting to see how different communication patterns are | compating to your own bubble. | | For me dumb phone is no use, as I don't use cellular voice for | anything (I've talk with my friends and parents on daily basis, | but it is always Telegram/Skype voice call, not cellular voice), | and only usage of SMS for me is force-feeded 2FA for banks and | other services which don't know better (unfortunately)... | | Who will I call, we all are all around the Globe? Why I will | text?.. Ok, week ago I had birthday party and there were a fair | amount of guests, so some of my friends now in same location as | me. Do they have local phone numbers? I bet, they have, because | without it it is impossible to open bank account or rent a flat. | Do I know these numbers? No. Because for what reason, we all | communicate in messengers for years. These accounts are fixed | identities for us, and phone numbers are for governments and | banks. | | I could simply turn off my smartphone with same effect as have | dumb phone :-) | | Oh, maybe, I need to call ambulance once a year... | | Edit: | | Idea of phone which is technically LTE Modem with all chat/voice | protocols under the unified phone-like interface, plus ability to | run some offline GPS, like Organic Maps or OsmAnd, looks good, | but politically impossible due to close nature of most chat/voice | apps. | dorchadas wrote: | This is my issue. I wish I had a _dumber_ phone. Like, one that | allowed only certain things by default - messaging apps, gps | trackers, Spotify being the big ones. If there was one like | that, I 'd buy it almost immediately. | cheesetoastie wrote: | This turns any phone into a dumb phone for free :) | | https://specialprojects.studio/project/envelope/ | setgree wrote: | I long for a dumber phone, but I've been thinking about all the | supplementary devices I'd need to buy to make up for it -- | basically a printer (+ ink) for tickets and a GPS device with car | ride services and google maps built in for getting around. | | I _feel_ as though I need those things, at any rate. | TacticalCoder wrote: | > I've been thinking about all the supplementary devices I'd | need to buy to make up for it -- basically a printer (+ ink) | for tickets and a GPS device with car ride services and google | maps built in for getting around. | | I've got a printer at home. Sister in law printed a plane | ticket on it the other day, just in case there'd be an issue | with her phone. Instead of "GPS device + car ride services" | I've got an old-fashioned thing: a car. The car happens to have | its own GPS so I can get around. | | It may not suit everybody of course. | setgree wrote: | I am with you until the car bit, but I live in Brooklyn and | haven't driven in years. Google Maps is essential for me, I | fear | dbalatero wrote: | I'm also in Brooklyn. Light Phone 2 has directions | including MTA transit. For tickets, I do print them out. | | Sometimes I'll draw a little map for fun and use that | instead of the phone directions, for simple things. Once I | draw the map I find that I actually memorize 90% of it | anyways and often don't end up looking at it. | | As for car ride services, I just stopped using them except | for super essential times, at which point I can pull my | iPhone out of a drawer. | SoftTalker wrote: | You can have a tablet in the car for maps and use the phone's | hotspot feature to connect it (or download the maps in advance | if you think about it). | | But that's still two devices instead of one, which ends up | being more complicated, not less. | jdlyga wrote: | For me, having an iPhone helps. On Android, I'm always | downloading new keyboards, launchers, and endlessly tweaking the | device. There isn't a lot to customize on an iPhone, so I'm not | distracted by tinkering, breaking things, and fixing them. I do | that enough on my other devices, and it's not something I want in | my pocket distracting me constantly. It's the same reason why I | go with Gnome distros for a computer I'm trying to do work on (I | am endlessly distracted by KDE's customizability). | college_physics wrote: | It takes only a tiny fraction of a smartphone's capabilities to | make us dumb. | | The endless scrolling and liking on social (which is now a | pandemic) could arguably be served by a much slimmed down device. | NB: Maybe thats something Meta should build and offer "for free". | | I dont know how we could ever get immunized against big tech | dumbness and start really using smartphones in smart ways. They | pack exceptional hardware. Mine even has an FM radio (thats | something to do with electromagnetic waves). | | Its just a matter of software. Which is a matter of mindsets, | control and economics. I like to think that a society that | manages to truly use smartphones as smart devices will get to the | next level of civilization | rhacker wrote: | Smart "Phones" would have: | | Automatic Recording (of all calls) - with prompts optionally | (consent), Speech to Text, Spam Protection, "Captchas for calls" | | Instead we got this: | | https://i.etsystatic.com/28431667/r/il/d1a61f/3334764950/il_... | | with a browser in it. | nyx_land wrote: | The problem with trying to replace a smartphone with a dumbphone | is that most people (young people at least) don't use calling and | texting anymore unless forced to. I'd rather have something in | between a laptop and a smartphone that is designed to be | comfortable for carrying around in a small bag or pocket, but | that also has a physical keyboard and is designed to be used | productively for programming or writing for example. | | As it stands, smartphones are the worst of both worlds though: | the form factor of what is essentially a legacy communication | device, but none of the human interfaces necessary to make it | useful enough to really take advantage of all its computing power | (and often also its software cripples the device unless you're | running a custom android ROM). What people hate about smartphones | isn't that they're constantly plugged in but that they have a | device on them all the time that is basically designed to turn | the user into the ideal consumer: a passive addict with no | attention span. If it was more common to have access to portable | hardware that is designed to empower users being creative and | productive, maybe it'd be a different story. | | But then again, I think most human beings probably want exactly | what they're getting with smartphones and are miserable and | alienated at the human condition itself of being so susceptible | to seeking out low effort short term dopamine feedback loops. | thfuran wrote: | >I'd rather have something in between a laptop and a smartphone | that is designed to be comfortable for carrying around in a | small bag or pocket, but that also has a physical keyboard and | is designed to be used productively for programming or writing | for example. | | Something like what? A small laptop is little more than a | display attached to a thin keyboard. I'm not sure how you'd get | something much smaller while retaining a physical keyboard and | still being reasonably useable for programming. | kibwen wrote: | I recently "upgraded" to a new phone, not because I wanted to, | but because my prior phone was too old to receive security | updates. The new phone, despite being newer tech, is abjectly | worse at being a usable device: the fingerprint is in a worse | location and has terrible accuracy, scrolling or zooming anything | is a stuttering nightmare, it's too heavy and wide to be | comfortably used one-handed, and so on. It's so much worse it | makes me not want to use it. And, ironically, being discouraged | from using my phone has made me marginally happier throughout the | day. So thanks, I guess, for making an inferior product?? | neogodless wrote: | What research and shopping criteria should one employ to ensure | they get an objectively worse phone? | beebeepka wrote: | This thread makes me feel like a geezer but I am not even that | old. "Resisting to install / use apps" sounds alien to me. | | I feel society has moved on and we're pretty much expected to | have these devices. I even bought one for my job because they | require an auth and I have to verify its me again at random | intervals. So secure, so authenticated. I hate it | DerekBickerton wrote: | It's not some burdensome 'quest' though. Just get a Nokia 105[0] | which uses the Series 30[1] operating system and has no Internet | connectivity. It comes preloaded with a few basic games so you | can kill time waiting for things or pacify yourself in awkward | social situations. | | [0] https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-105 | | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_30%2B | dbalatero wrote: | I had a flip phone the last year and switched to a Light Phone 2 | the other day after I dropped the flip phone and broke some | internal connections. It's been great for my focus, information | overload, and the minor inconveniences are, well, minor. The next | OS is supposed to get calendars + 2-way sync, so between that and | directions/music/podcasts, it's a pretty full featured device | while still preventing a lot of mindless engagement. | | Occasionally I break out the iPhone for a Lyft ride to the | airport or something, but beyond that there hasn't been much of a | need. | em500 wrote: | Focusing on the phone seems like missing the mark. The addictive | thing is not the phone, but the internet. Even with a dumbphone | you can easily waste as much time on your laptop's web-browser | (and people did: FB and Youtube were already big before the | iPhone was a thing). | | Conversely, if you turn off data, there are not many | possibilities to spend huge amounts of time on your phone. (And | yes, there are still plenty of useful offline smartphone apps.) | rr888 wrote: | Slowing down internet to a crawl works for me too. Once I hit | my data limit it runs at 128 kb/s which is perfect. I just wish | it ran at that speed all the time. | wwweston wrote: | When I finally got a smart phone 5 years after the iPhone came | out, one of the first things I tried to do was train myself by | _not_ getting service on it for over 3 months. The idea was to | make sure I had other kinds of content on it that weren 't | update-hits; mostly eBooks and saved long-form articles, plus | some map apps for navigation. So data engagement was limited to | WiFi islands and focused on practical business. | | This was definitely only partially effective, probably because | I already had bad habits from my laptop. OTOH, to this day I do | have at least a rudimentary deeper reading/writing flow for my | phone I can focus on without too much conscious effort, so it | wasn't useless. | | My conclusion is that most of us probably would benefit from | either intentional choices or self-imposed restrictions... but | most of us could also probably benefit more from a combination | of both. | ignoramous wrote: | > _My conclusion is that most of us probably would benefit | from either intentional choices or self-imposed | restrictions... but most of us could also probably benefit | more from a combination of both._ | | This sentence is a good tldr for the book, _Atomic Habits_. | stagger87 wrote: | It's not the bottle that's addictive, it's the alcohol inside. | Just don't open the bottle and there are not many possibilities | to drink! | rhn_mk1 wrote: | You make it sound as if alcohol was the only thing ever found | in bottles. | fleddr wrote: | Definitely a key insight: every attempt to be less addicted to | your smartphone will fail if you do not fill up that void of | newly available time with something more productive, healthy, | etc. | | The good news is that you don't need to set a very high bar for | a better use of this free time. Read a book. Go on a small walk | around the block. Take care of your garden, if you have one. Do | simple chores. Do nothing at all. Almost anything is better | than smartphone usage. | [deleted] | SoftTalker wrote: | You don't need a dumb phone, you just need decide who's in | charge. I used to want a dumb phone, but there are a few things | (mainly maps/navigation) that I find genuinely useful that dumb | phones can't do. | | So I decided that it's my phone and I'm the one who decides how | to use it. | | I have a reasonably new iPhone. I spend maybe 15 minutes a day on | it (excluding navigation), total. | | I have removed apps I don't use. I disabled Siri, FaceID, most | notifications, and location is turned off unless I'm using maps. | I have one page on my home screen and there are maybe a dozen | apps on it (and that still includes a few I have never used so I | could pare down further). | throwaway4aday wrote: | I'm glad you're able to resist temptation so well. For others | it can be more of a problem. For some it is equivalent to an | alcoholic carrying around a pint of vodka that also happens to | make phone calls. | hcal wrote: | I've been using my Samsung smartwatch with LTE as a smartphone | that's hard to abuse. Thursday through Sunday I only carry it and | leave my "real" phone at home. | | It's pretty nice because I still have Bluetooth calls in my car | and navigation in a pinch. I can still stream music and ask | Google to look things up for me. | | Actual calls on the watch are fine, but I do keep a pair of | bluetooth headphones on me so I don't have to take business calls | on speakerphone. | | If texting is your addiction, technically this doesn't solve it | but it doesn't increase the friction so maybe it's less of a | temptation. I don't text that much so it's not a big deal to me. | Doomscrolling is my downfall and fortunately not really doable on | a watch. | trekkie1024 wrote: | Likewise, with an Apple Watch. Works great but only issue is | the battery life < a day when it's being used that way. | andrew-dc wrote: | Oh man, I have been wondering about this experience myself - | though if it would all work with no smartphone at all (I have | been rolling with the LightPhone II for a few years now). | | It had seemed like stand-alone watches were nearly there, but | not quite the last time I dug into it. But it works for you? | ttthomas wrote: | I too have quested for a Dumber Phone. As an easily distracted | engineer who values my time, I enjoy being on a dumb device, | particularly one without Maps. Things hat I've tried: | - Punkt MP02 (Pigeon): small black & white Android phone with a | non-standard launcher. Doesn't support MMS on Google Fi, which is | needed to participate with friends & family (USA), so it sits on | a shelf. - Unihertz Atom: tiny Android phone, storage | chip began dying within 3 months. Supports MMS, but my previous | company's MDM locked it out due to a lack of recent security | updates and their phone plan required a login to receive MMS! | | I also looked into the Hisense e-Ink phones (Android), but they | are hacky to use this it in the USA (lack of frequencies & Google | Play). In eventually realized that I already had perfectly good | hardware (Pixel 4) that I could turn into a dumb-phone without | generating more e-waste. I began compiling my own locked-down | distro, but in the end I just wrote a shell script to turn an | Android phone into a dumb phone: | https://github.com/tstromberg/quietude. For example: | - For a truly "dumb" phone: `quietude.sh disable all` - | Disable distractions but keep the app store: `quietude.sh disable | distractions` | | The key here is that apps are disabled in a way which can only be | enabled again by plugging the phone in with a USB cable. This | keeps me from mindlessly re-enabling apps when I am bored in line | somewhere. I also get to keep PagerDuty, Plugshare, Lyft, Google | Photos, and whatever other apps I find convenient to have | available. | dbalatero wrote: | I'm a Light Phone user, but I really like the look of your | quietude script. It seems like a really flexible option. | krunck wrote: | I've got a Punkt MP01. I love it. I charge it every two weeks. | It's durable. And it works. There is a problem with it not | working with group SMS. The MP02(current version) fixes this I | think. | extr0pian wrote: | I had researched dumb phones recently only to learn that the two | most important functions of a smartphone (for me) is the GPS and | having a decent camera, and these things are either crippled or | missing entirely from dumb phones. It's simply easier to dumb | down your existing smartphone, especially if you have an Android | phone. | | In my case, I have a 2017 Pixel 2 XL running LineageOS, with a | text only home screen launcher (OLauncher). I only have SMS, | phone/contacts, camera, open street maps, KOReader, Music, | Podcasts, Notes, and Calculator. That's it. Everything else has | been purged or disabled, including the web browser, via ADB. | | I don't really use it all unless I'm driving. I wrote about my | setup here: https://chuck.is/phone | devoutsalsa wrote: | Being about to use various instant messaging platforms, | especially WhatsApp, is also nice. | extr0pian wrote: | I had Signal installed for a while, but ultimately removed it | because it's mostly friends sending stupid memes, breaking | whatever I was concentrating on seemingly at random. I do | have it running on my laptop. | tut-urut-utut wrote: | You know you can mute notifications and ignore until you | decide to look into it? | gog wrote: | Nokia has a model that works with WhatsApp. | MSFT_Edging wrote: | I'm in a similar boat. GPS, Camera, but also Telegram and a | basic browser for reference. | | Dumbing down a smart phone doesn't fix the size and | delicateness of the device either. I essentially want a tiny | durable smartphone, ie size of an iPhone 3g. | | My biggest thing is I hate how important this device is while | also being unwieldy and easy to break. The only entertainment I | use on my phone is twitter and even then I find it easy to stop | scrolling. | | I want the abilities of a smart phone, but something I can keep | on me without worrying about it, like wearing a watch or how I | can throw around my wallet. | trekkie1024 wrote: | Try a smartwatch with cellular connectivity? | letmeinhere wrote: | I'll have to check out OLauncher. I use and adore another open | source text launcher: KISS | red-iron-pine wrote: | Literally tried to upgrade my Pixel 2 XL to Lineage and it | failed repeatedly. Reddit says, no joke, it's the cable that's | the problem. Sigh. Same computer didn't have issues flashing | old Galaxy and Nexus phones. | | Bought a dumb phone but found it lacking for your exact reasons | -- no GPS, crappy camera, and texting using the number pad was | tedious as all hell. | | Gave up, got a Pixel 7, might think about flashing it. | extr0pian wrote: | > Literally tried to upgrade my Pixel 2 XL to Lineage and it | failed repeatedly. Reddit says, no joke, it's the cable | that's the problem. | | I recently started having issues with the data functionality | of the port. I can't get ADB to run at all, it will only | charge. The power button also doesn't work so I've had to set | it to shut off the screen by holding down the "Recents" | button. | | > Bought a dumb phone but found it lacking for your exact | reasons | | I like the idea of dumb phones, but I don't want to have to | buy separate things like a digital camera, GPS, mp3 player, | etc. Seems like it's just adding more complexity. | kitsunesoba wrote: | > Reddit says, no joke, it's the cable that's the problem. | | Not surprising. My experience across a few different Android | devices over the years is just about all USB-related | functionality is a flaky mess, and that includes things like | ADB and installing new ROMs. _How_ it 's flaky varies from | device to device which makes it extra fun. | kfarr wrote: | Can confirm with Android phones and vr headsets that ADB | access can definitely be affected by choice of cable. Talk | about face palm, but it is what it us | at-fates-hands wrote: | Have you looked into any of the Jolla devices? You can get a | Sony Experia phone with Linux SailfishOS preinstalled on it for | less than $500: | | https://buy.jolla-devices.com/ | | Or even installing CalyxOS? You can get a Pixel 5a 5G phone | (selling on ebay for under $200) and then install CalyxOS on | it. | | https://calyxos.org/ | | I'm going to grab one of the Jolla devices and give it a test | drive next month. I think there's decent alternative out there | where you can still maintain your privacy without having to | step all the way down to a "dumb phone". | stonogo wrote: | I'm sorry, but I don't understand your first sentence. You | researched dumbphones and discovered they're not smartphones? | I'm struggling to understand what you thought you were going to | find. | resfirestar wrote: | Feature phones in the later '00s usually had cameras, it's | not a feature that started with smartphones. | marttt wrote: | I've intentionally never owned a smartphone. Dumb phones | abandoned by my family have been serving me very well for years | (strategy: use them until they stop working; get next one; | repeat). | | My daily work is in forestry, as a brush cutter -- occasionally, | GPS would be necessary (unavoidable even). For 95% of the cases, | though, I've found a workaround by postponing the map-related | tasks (e.g. making sure I understand the borders of a particular | forest subcompartment correctly) to the next day and hand-drawing | the shape of the subcompartment from an online map to a piece of | paper. With the drawing in hand, I can usually accurately confirm | the borders by visual observation. Once more, this probably only | works for simple blue collars, not for guys that need to do more | on-site planning. | | Other than that, I occasionally miss a tolerable camera (for | digitizing expenditure checks) and QR code reading ability. | | All in all, living with old dumb phone is fun. Zero cost if you | break it or ruin it in the forest (mud!). I hate my current | Nokia, though -- but can't ditch it because _it still works_ , | lol. I still miss my Nokia 3310 (the original one), which I used | every day for 12(!) years in a row, starting in around 2001 as a | high school student and finally letting it go in around 2013 when | I was a young father. It was one hell of a phone. | | My current favorite oldscool dumb phones are the "senior phones" | with huge buttons. This ZTE s202 was really enjoyable to use | (belonged to my grandpa), and the no-bs design somehow feels | really elegant: | https://i.hinnavaatlus.ee/p/1200/99/43/S20220must__6ee8.jpg | superkuh wrote: | I use a Nokia 6030 phone; the old indestructible brick one. It | still works where I am. But I don't use it because I want to get | away from the internet. I just don't use smart phones because | they're terrible computers. I use a computer for computing, a GPS | for navigation, and a camera for photos. And each of these | devices is better at it's job with fewer downsides than any | general purpose device. | | Mostly the "smart phones/internet/etc" are ruining society | reaction is the same type of thing as the reactions to the | introduction to newspapers/books, electricity, radio, television, | etc. These were all destroying society and addicting the youth. | But they aren't addictive. The only existing medically recognized | behavioral addiction (ie, not a real addiction like to a drug | like methamphetamine) is "gambling disorder". | xcambar wrote: | > Disclosure: Every [the website every.to] co-founder and CEO Dan | Shipper is an investor in Light. | | I do appreciate the disclosure. | yadoomerta wrote: | idk why you're being downvoted, it did read like an insidious | content marketing piece. At least there was a disclosure. | | With that said, I've been trying to lock down my smartphone to | offline-only apps + text + calls, totally agree with the | mission, I've felt so much more distractable of late | patchorang wrote: | I've posted this here before, but I've figured out a way that | makes an iPhone work as a semi-smart phone for me. | | I delete all app that I waste time in, but keep one that are | useful. (I won't blow two hours scrolling Lyft, and it's very | helpful sometimes) I then set screentime permissions to block | websites I don't want to use (like reddit), and prevent app | downloads. I set a screentime password and give it to my partner. | | This way I get all the "benefits" of a smartphone with none of | the scrolling and time wasting. It's also very easy to switch it | back to a full smartphone, get the password from my partner and | turn off screentime. I'll do this when I travel internationally | for work. | | Hope this setup helps some others. | aag2113 wrote: | How do you manage app updates? | | I ask because I've been trying to make this system work for me, | but find that the app update flow (partner unlocks phone -> | update apps -> partner locks phone) always breaks and I end up | with an unrestricted phone. | | The fact that you can't allow updates while also not allowing | installation of new apps is a huge blocker here for me. | rootusrootus wrote: | This reminds me of when my dad used to ask my mother to hide | the peanut butter so he couldn't find it. He was still fat, so | clearly that wasn't a perfect solution. | googlryas wrote: | Maybe he would have been really fat if he didn't hide it | danfolkes wrote: | I did the same thing this New Years. Blocked email, safari, all | non-important applications. Kept things like: message, fb | messenger, fitbit, camera, etc. | | If I really need to know the answer to something, I will ask | Siri. And most things I just add to my to-do list for looking | up the information later. | | It's been great! | giantrobot wrote: | I don't use many apps outside a browser, e-mail, and text. Two | things that help me are I leave my phone on silent all the time | and I disable all notifications. I can't stand notifications. I | don't need them. I'm not 911, no one is contacting me with a | life threatening emergency, I'll get back to their call or text | whenever. | | I love having a smartphone because it's a cybernetic appliance. | It's awesome. I just don't need it constantly occupying my | attention. It's annoying how many apps, even system ones, that | want to show notifications all the time. I wish iOS supported | an affirmative toggle, let me disable all notifications by | default and then let me turn them on one by one. Do not disturb | by default and let me affirmatively enable "ok to disturb". I | filed ERs to that effect when I was at Apple but I'm sure they | went to the Future/NTBF black hole. | nlavezzo wrote: | I've done this in the past too and it works. Right now though I | have it set so that I know the passcode to unlock it all, but | that small amount of pain to go and unlock it is enough to make | me pause and think about whether I actually do need to check | the news, etc. Very rarely is the answer yes, but when I do | need an actual smart phone (confirm a ticket on some random | website for example) it's nice to have the ability to do so. | Just have to have the discipline to lock it back down! | jihadjihad wrote: | Not sure if it's a typo but how in the world would a person | spend 2 hours "scrolling Lyft"? | dbalatero wrote: | Re-read the comment, they said they are _keeping_ Lyft | because there's no way to doomscroll it for 2 hours. | aradox66 wrote: | Their point is that you can't, there's basically no way for | it to be entertaining, so it's a safe app to keep available | if you're prone to waste time scrolling. | procinct wrote: | They're saying they don't need to worry about having lyft on | their phone because they aren't going to spend hours | scrolling it. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2023-01-17 23:00 UTC)