[HN Gopher] Citizen scientists report global rapid reductions in...
___________________________________________________________________
Citizen scientists report global rapid reductions in the visibility
of stars
Author : geox
Score : 99 points
Date : 2023-01-20 18:54 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.science.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.science.org)
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Speaking of light pollution, months ago I experienced this
| phenomenon. This is taken hours after sunset. The moon is behind
| us. 403 westbound half hour out of Hamilton.
|
| It was both incredibly eerie and calming. One of the most liminal
| night drives I've had.
|
| https://youtu.be/7SKoaRBkGiQ
| terramex wrote:
| Possibly a light pollution from industrial greenhouse. There is
| one near Wroclaw (Poland) and tourists are constantly asking
| "what is that spooky light in the sky?".
|
| https://miejscawewroclawiu.pl/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/IMG...
| Waterluvian wrote:
| It might be! I'm also thinking an auto plant.
|
| There's a cannabis greenhouse elsewhere in my region that
| creates a pillar of white light. It's a completely surreal
| scene. Also pretty awful light pollution.
| orobinson wrote:
| "Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out."
| pjmorris wrote:
| Now there's a line I've not heard in a very long time. Thanks
| for the callback.
|
| I'm fairly certain this is from Arthur C. Clarke's short story
| "The Nine Billion Names of God", partly used as inspiration for
| 2001: A Space Odyssey.
| stavros wrote:
| Too bad it spoils the entire story.
| leesec wrote:
| Gave me chills remembering this haha, what a great short
| story
| [deleted]
| college_physics wrote:
| The wonder of the true dark sky is that the numbers of perceived
| stars multiply significantly, giving an almost three dimensional
| impression.
|
| That indescribable feeling disappears with light pollution. It
| can be a street light nearby or an industrial estate hundreds of
| kilometers away.
|
| Nowadays one needs to go into extremes to experience such
| conditions.
| NKosmatos wrote:
| One of the bad things of our modern lifestyle/civilization, most
| of the population hasn't got access to a dark sky. I think of
| myself as privileged since I have the possibility to visit a
| Bortle 3 or 4 location in less than an hour of driving.
|
| Do yourself a favor, try to visit a really dark place, ideally
| with binoculars and a sky map and you'll feel again connected
| with the Cosmos.
|
| Here is a very good map to find a dark place:
| https://www.lightpollutionmap.info
|
| Some extra info on the Bortle Scale:
| https://astrobackyard.com/the-bortle-scale/
| s0rce wrote:
| Preferably in the summer when the milky way is visible,
| although the winter nights are longer and I usually manage to
| stay up late enough to see the stars. Remote mountain ranges in
| the Western US have had amazing views of the night sky (Steens,
| Santa Rosa Range, White Mtns, Argus Mtns).
| 100pctremote wrote:
| What the heck is going on in north western North Dakota? Is it
| related to the oil industry?
| patchorang wrote:
| Wow. What an awesome map. You can even see major highways in
| the western US.
|
| I recently moved from the western US to the east. The
| public/opens lands are what I miss the most. I don't think many
| people out east even realize what public land is, how much
| there is, and how great it is. But this map really displays it.
|
| Side note: What's up with Alberta? Same with northwestern North
| Dakota? I'm guess this is mining and/or oil operations?
| mickdeek86 wrote:
| Can confirm: you're looking at Athabasca (the infamous tar
| sands) and Bakken, respectively
| Teever wrote:
| its not just those industrial areas. For whatever reason
| urban centres in alberta just love to blast the shit out of
| the sky with street lights.
| jwdunne wrote:
| I noticed the difference too when moving to a town just outside
| of Snowdonia in Wales, UK. It's truly wonderful - you just
| don't see it growing up in a city like Manchester.
|
| It's Bortle 4 where I live and it drops down to 3 just 20
| minutes down the road. One of the best perks of living here.
|
| Time is ripe to invest in a good telescope, I think :)
| virtuallynathan wrote:
| I bought a house out in the middle of nowhere in part for the
| dark sky. It's awesome to walk outside and see so much. Per
| this data, my house is at 19.9 mcd/m2, and if I drive/hike a
| few miles down the road, I can get to < 10 mcd/m2.
| hemloc_io wrote:
| It's honestly one of the coolest things I've ever done.
|
| It's not just about the brightness of the stars, the sky
| literally looks 3d, which I didn't expect
| NKosmatos wrote:
| Exactly this, you can almost feel the depth and get a broader
| look at the whole celestial dome.
|
| Be careful thought, since some people might get overwhelmed
| by this feeling of realizing your place in the universe. If I
| remember correctly there are a couple of related phobias,
| Astrophobia (fear of space) and Apeirophobia (fear of
| infinity).
|
| Something like the Total Perspective Vortex:
| https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Total_Perspective_Vortex
| schaefer wrote:
| whoa, What's all the light in western north dakota?!? 47.96732,
| -102.86034
|
| there sure aren't many people there.
|
| are they just burning oil or natural gas straight off the well?
| rgbrenner wrote:
| probably... every brown spot is an oil well when you zoom
| in.. pan around and they're everywhere: https://www.google.co
| m/maps/place/47%C2%B058'02.4%22N+102%C2...
| triyambakam wrote:
| Interesting. Apparently I live in a class three. For that I am
| grateful!
| newaccount2021 wrote:
| before: _rural US has crappy broadband whaaaa everything sucks!_
|
| now: _starlink satellites are ruining astronomy for like sixty
| people whaaaa everything sucks!_
|
| this is why I no longer give any credit to online bellyaching
|
| backyard astronomers: we don't care about you
|
| if only starlink satellites could be arranged in the shape of
| Trump's face directly above laid-off Twitter engineers, life
| would be perfect
| chatterhead wrote:
| I guarantee it's the HID headlights no one is regulating. It's
| blotting out the night sky!
| ceejayoz wrote:
| They're mostly turned off late at night. Street lights and
| outdoor building / landscaping lighting tends not to be.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Due to light pollution - before anyone freaks out and starts
| worrying that the dome that the aliens put around us has gotten
| scratched up or something like that.
| blahblah1234567 wrote:
| [flagged]
| causi wrote:
| _Participants were shown maps of the sky at different levels of
| light pollution and asked which most closely matched their view._
|
| This seems like a very lazy, inexact, and error-prone way of
| collecting data.
| elil17 wrote:
| How so? They're looking for a change over time, so it would
| only really be an issue if we had some reason to think that
| people were changing how they responded to it in one year vs.
| the next.
| causi wrote:
| _so it would only really be an issue if we had some reason to
| think that people were changing how they responded to it in
| one year vs. the next._
|
| Such as, gee I dunno, a change in the nature of peoples'
| light exposure, like spending more time inside and more time
| staring at a screen every year? No way that could possibly
| throw off peoples' subjective feeling of how bright the sky
| is, right? I'm sure there definitely hasn't been any other
| types of changes to human vision over time, like an increase
| in myopia over time. There also definitely hasn't been an
| increase in photophobia over time due to, among other
| factors, changing demographics resulting in older people
| making up a larger percentage of respondents, no siree.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| > No way that could possibly throw off peoples' subjective
| feeling of how bright the sky is, right?
|
| They're not being asked to evaluate the glow itself, but
| how many stars they can see in a particular region of the
| sky.
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/19/light-
| po...
|
| "Participants were asked to use a website to view a
| selection of star charts for their location - each showing
| an incrementally greater number of the stars that exist in
| that patch of sky - and pick the chart that best matched
| what they could see. The researchers then created a model
| that related the number of visible stars to the brightness
| of the night sky."
| elil17 wrote:
| Wouldn't all of those changes also equally effect how the
| people see the reference photos? I suppose myopia might if
| it was not corrected, but the vast majority is corrected.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Maybe you're having a bad day, but expressing yourself in
| such sarcastic terms isn't going to win you any friends.
| These things are hard to control for, but perhaps you can
| suggest a better method, bearing in mind that respondents
| to this survey are self-selected and presumably care about
| managing their own light sensitivity to some degree.
| herodotus wrote:
| I belong to a local astronomy club, and was part of the "Light
| Pollution Abatement" group for a while. But I had to stop:
| persuading people that light pollution matters and that something
| should be done about it is almost impossible. Even some of the
| comments here indicate to me that few people really care.
|
| So why do I? It is not just to see more from my telescope. It is
| because this is part of a very broad problem. The problem? That
| humans on this planet have not even considered how we can life in
| a state of stasis with this planet. Weather catastrophes, insect
| decline, crop failures to pollination problems, shortages of
| seafood: these are all symptoms of the root problem, and light
| pollution is just one more symptom.
| hanniabu wrote:
| I think the issue here is the same as recycling and carbon
| reduction. There's only so much us as individuals can do, our
| impact is extremely limited and negligible.
|
| You'd need to convince the governments to do something about
| it, but that's a large task given there's a lack of money for
| lobbying and a lack of profits to encourage them to do anything
| about it.
| everdrive wrote:
| A lot of people think the only way to be safe is to have multiple
| exterior lights on their property. It's a waste of energy and a
| blight.
| xwdv wrote:
| You'll have a hard time convincing people to trade lights that
| make them feel safe right now here on Earth for the ability to
| see some stars light years away that they don't give a fuck
| about.
| s0rce wrote:
| Sadly this sentiment extends to pretty much anything and
| thats why we are destroying the planet and leading to
| extinction of so many species
| eulers_secret wrote:
| The exterior light I park next to at my apartment went out- I
| thought it wasn't a big deal.
|
| In 1 week my catalytic converter was stolen. A week later the
| light was fixed (big job, corrosion spread in the wires).
|
| Never had an issue before nor since. Lights matter a lot.
| icedistilled wrote:
| Be aware of attributing causal relations to that which has no
| indication it is not just a coincidence. Lights definitely
| don't effect catalytic converter thieves in many cities like
| SF. That's not to say lights in other locations have the same
| lack of effect. One incidence is not enough to say anything.
|
| But also all lights are not equal. All lights are not equal
| for safety and all lights are not equal for light pollution.
|
| Light pollution could be vastly reduced without diminishing
| needed lighting if the light temperature is warmer and if
| proper fixtures ensure the light is directed only where
| needed instead of half of it going directly at my bedroom
| window like my last couple apartments have done, among other
| undesired locations.
| s0rce wrote:
| Considering I know people who had their catalytic
| converters stolen during the day in Oakland...
| miguelazo wrote:
| There are street lights that are designed to only cast their
| glow down. For other lighting, they should be on motion
| detectors.
| martyvis wrote:
| The thing is if you can see the result of the light shining
| on the objects of the ground, it also goes up past your
| eyes into the sky, only to create the reflective smudge
| there.
| DFHippie wrote:
| Sure, but unless the ground is paved with mirrors it will
| be considerably less light.
| Buttons840 wrote:
| Maybe one day we'll get smarter motion detectors (like a
| camera and a computer[0]), that can watch a larger area. A
| light that only turns on when someone is nearby is an even
| better deterrent.
|
| [0] And hopefully they don't require an internet connection
| and send all video to a central location.
| miguelazo wrote:
| I have been getting LED bulbs that have built-in motion
| detectors recently. I replaced all of my exterior lights
| with them and they work very well. You can even
| temporarily disable the motion detector by just turning
| the bulb on and off 3 times quickly. They're from GE, but
| others make them. https://www.gelighting.com/led-
| lights/bulbs/e26/ge-led-motio...
| stouset wrote:
| When one light among many is out, that area becomes a target.
| When _no_ lights are on, nothing sticks out. And your evolved
| night vision will actually work for the places between where
| lights used to be.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| It depends on where you live
| hyperion2010 wrote:
| Little do they realize that other humans are just as afraid of
| the dark as they are!
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| The neighborhood burglar liked this comment.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9x2dz/iama_retired_ca...
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| Yep, the "common sense" that it makes it easier to see evil-
| doers is quite wrong.
|
| When a property, building, etc is dark - someone up to no good
| has to use light to see what they're doing, and that stands out
| much, much more.
|
| You probably wouldn't notice someone at the front door of a
| business as you drove by at night if it's well lit, but if it
| were unlit , you'd probably immediately notice a flashlight.
|
| There's a reason behind the "must be a full moon" saying.
| People up to no good back before outdoor lighting was a thing
| would use moonlight to be able to see what they were doing.
| lukan wrote:
| "When a property, building, etc is dark - someone up to no
| good has to use light to see what they're doing, and that
| stands out much, much more."
|
| Erm, no. If you trained a bit, and it is not pitch black
| (which it never is, in the cities) you can move and act very
| well without light. Also there is nightvision, which got
| quite cheap.
|
| What works well and is a good compromise to protect from
| thieves and co. is light activated by motion detectors.
| throw0101c wrote:
| > _It 's a waste of energy and a blight._
|
| They are fine as long as they are pointed _down_ and _not up_
| or sideways (which creates glare):
|
| * https://www.zgsm-china.com/blog/light-distribution-of-
| outdoo...
| dheera wrote:
| I mean, the other way to be safe is if the government would
| actually arrest the crooks and throw them in jail instead of
| releasing them back onto the streets of SF and Oakland.
| cptskippy wrote:
| I mean, if that's the case then I'm ok with the residents of
| SF and Oakland running all the lights they want. But everyone
| else needs to turn them off and rest peacefully knowing their
| criminals are being shipped to SF and Oakland.
| it_citizen wrote:
| Aren't the US waayyy ahead of other developed countries in
| term of incarcerating its population?
|
| How is that working so far?
|
| Mass incarceration doesn't seem to be working well so far.
| Maybe it would be time to stop treating the symptoms and try
| a different approach?
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Only if your crime is smoking weed. There's a huge amount
| of "we won't do anything about it" for property crimes
| among police departments now. It's hard work, and not
| flashy, so cops don't do it. They have largely not been
| punished in any way for this.
| lliamander wrote:
| Most people in prisons are there for violent crimes
| (partly because they tend to have longer sentences).
|
| Property crimes are definitely under-policed.
| rom-antics wrote:
| According to this page, drug offenses are by far the
| highest category.
|
| https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_of
| fen...
| [deleted]
| lliamander wrote:
| That is true for _federal_ prisons.
|
| For state prisons, where the majority of criminals are
| incarcerated, 62% of prisoners are there for violent
| crimes.
|
| https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/prisoners-2021-s
| tat...
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| Crime is complex, but we know with certainty that one of
| its causes is crime. If you grow up in a high-crime
| neighborhood, crime is a normal part of your daily life,
| and you are much more likely to engage in crime yourself
| (thus perpetuating the cycle) than someone from a low-crime
| community. As such, incarceration _is_ addressing a root
| cause.
|
| Further, virtually no one in American politics is arguing
| that incarceration is _sufficient_ , but rather the debate
| is about whether or not it is _necessary_ or if we can (for
| example) replace police with social workers and call it a
| day.
| dheera wrote:
| > Mass incarceration doesn't seem to be working well so
| far.
|
| No, they're not incarcerating the right people.
|
| They're incarcerating some financial idiots like SBF and
| Holmes and some weed users who don't threaten my physical
| safety at all and I frankly don't give a damn about, while
| the people running around punching Asian grandmothers in SF
| and smashing local Asian businesses are running free.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| I mean, I'm glad that white collar crime is prosecuted,
| and I don't think the majority of people in prisons are
| "like SBF and Holmes". I just want to roll back policing
| to pre-BLM levels.
| dheera wrote:
| I mean, I'm selfish.
|
| SBF didn't cause me to lose money. He isn't even remotely
| on my radar. You know who did? The fucker who broke into
| my car last year and stole $5000 worth of stuff. What's
| that guy doing? Roaming the streets breaking and smashing
| more cars, probably, considering the police dropped the
| case.
| it_citizen wrote:
| White collar damages are more indirect but they hurt
| society just as much if not more.
|
| Imagine how much better US cities would be if the white
| collars that pushed oxicontin and fentanyls by corrupting
| doctors, officials and insurance companies had been more
| scared of consequences. But no, most of them still roam
| free.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| I haven't followed closely, but what laws were broken in
| this case? Would stiffer penalties or more aggressive
| prosecution have landed these guys in jail? (I'm not
| arguing against your larger point about the damages of
| white collar crime, I'm just curious about these
| examples)
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| I get it, but (1) we don't have to choose and (2) if we
| don't prosecute white collar crime you will eventually
| lose money to it.
| lliamander wrote:
| Comparisons of policies between different countries is
| notoriously error prone because often there are so many
| differences between the populations.
|
| If you look at the US compared to itself over time,
| increased policing and encarceration (such as during the
| 90's) does in fact lead to lower crime. The relative
| absence of policing and prosecution since 2020 have
| resulted in a sharp increase in crime.
|
| I'm certainly open to the idea that sentences should be
| shorter, but I think that would need to come with a
| corresponding increase in the number of police - and in
| their willingness to enforce laws. This would be under the
| theory that increasing the odds that you will be punished
| is more of a deterrent than increasing the severity of the
| punishment.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| > The relative absence of policing and prosecution since
| 2020 have resulted in a sharp increase in crime.
|
| This has been going on since ~2014, and you're absolutely
| spot-on that it absolutely correlates with reductions in
| the amount of policing. Roland Fryer (famed Harvard
| economist) and Tanaya Devi wrote a paper about this a
| couple years ago (but many other papers have similar
| findings): https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_pape
| rs/w27324/w273...
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| Two cities in one state in one country are not even remotely
| relevant to this discussion, but a friendly reminder that
| violent and property crimes in the US have been on an overall
| downward trend for half a century:
| https://www.google.com/search?q=fbi+property+crime+statistic
|
| Also, people generally do crime because of lack of
| opportunity or options, which is why many countries treat the
| criminal justice system as an opportunity to rehabilitate
| people.
|
| We have one of the most punitive criminal justice systems in
| the world and the highest incarceration rate of any country.
| Imagine if we were able to spend all that money on helping to
| lift struggling people, instead of punishing them.
|
| They'd be productive, contributing members of society,
| instead of a huge drain on society. Keeping people in prison
| is very expensive.
| dheera wrote:
| > Also, people generally do crime because of lack of
| opportunity or options, which is why many countries treat
| the criminal justice system as an opportunity to
| rehabilitate people.
|
| I agree with rehabilitation, but I personally would like to
| be alive tomorrow, which is why I do not choose to live in
| Oakland.
|
| > Imagine if we were able to spend all that money on
| helping to lift struggling people, instead of punishing
| them.
|
| These two can happen at the same time. It's less about
| punishment, and more about making everyone else feel safe.
| If they want to create a "city of crooks" in the middle of
| Nevada that isn't a punishment but a rehabilitation center
| I'm all up for that.
| slothtrop wrote:
| There's been an uptick in crime in recent years. Policing
| reduces crime.
|
| https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/what-caused-
| the-2020-h...
|
| If the US rids itself of petty drug convictions the
| incarceration rate wouldn't be so high.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| > a friendly reminder that violent and property crimes in
| the US have been on an overall downward trend for half a
| century
|
| This is a generic argument against progress. Imagine if we
| shrugged off vaccines because "the pathogen-derived death
| rate is trending down over the last 200 years" or if we
| rebutted #metoo with "a friendly reminder that women's
| rights are trending up over the last 100 years". Just
| because something was worse 50 years ago doesn't mean we
| should content ourselves with a worsening trend _now_.
|
| > Also, people generally do crime because of lack of
| opportunity or options, which is why many countries treat
| the criminal justice system as an opportunity to
| rehabilitate people.
|
| If the premise were true, crime should have gone down in
| the face of the red-hot labor market we had been
| experiencing over the last few years. Even still, if you
| can find a way to reliably rehabilitate violent offenders,
| I doubt you'd face any serious objection. In the meanwhile
| though, the soft-on-crime approach to violent crime (both
| with respect to reducing the amount of discretionary
| policing and catch-and-release approach to prosecution)
| appears to be (predictably) devastating communities and
| (predictably) further perpetuating the cycle of violent
| crime.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| Last summer I visited Medawisla - a "National Dark Sky Park" on
| the edge of Maine's 100-mile wilderness, run by the AMC
| (Appalachian Mountain Club). It was a fantastic experience,
| highly recommended. I'm a life-long stargazer in my late 40's,
| and the only comparable night sky I've ever experienced has been
| on a sailboat.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| The LED lights also change the landscape of cities to something
| cooler. It's a massive aesthetic change that nobody talks about.
|
| LEDs for consumers come in various color temperatures. Why are
| the streetlights all so cold?
| mtalantikite wrote:
| When my neighborhood here in Brooklyn switched over to LED
| streetlights I got very depressed. And angry. All of a sudden
| everything was drenched in this horrible white light. Plus
| there's a lamppost right outside our window, so my living room
| gets flooded in cold LED light. I complained multiple times to
| the city but they said it's just what it is now.
|
| A year ago our condos switched over to LEDs on all outside
| building lights and I no longer feel comfortable just sitting
| on our stoop enjoying the city at night anymore. It just feels
| so harsh. I have so many good memories from hanging out on
| Brooklyn stoops at night, either solo or with friends. I miss
| that soft, warm NYC lighting.
| rileyphone wrote:
| Start a guerilla campaign to put tinted films on all the
| lights.
| mtalantikite wrote:
| I actually bought a bunch of light gels from B&H to do this
| on the lights on my stoop. I wish I could do it to the
| street lights and the outdoor lights mounted on the sides
| of our building!
| icedistilled wrote:
| is there something actually stopping you?
| mtalantikite wrote:
| The lamppost is something like 27 feet and the ones on
| the outside of our condos are two stories up -- I don't
| have a ladder in my tiny NYC apartment is really the main
| reason.
| teslabox wrote:
| In the beginning of the modern era, electric light was
| fantastically expensive. People used just enough light to get by.
|
| LEDs put out 7x as much light as an incandescent bulb, so people
| can use 3x as much light as they need and still save money on
| their power bill. I have a neighbor that has a string of bulbs
| along their driveway. These are left on all night every night.
| City code requires "fully shielded" lighting, but the city
| ignores its own code.
|
| _What Is a Fully Shielded Light Fixture?_ http://we-
| watch.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/FullyShielded...
|
| The tragedy of the increased amount of blue light in our
| nighttime environment is that there's a bunch of old research
| about the physiological mechanism behind high-energy blue photons
| causing inflammation in the eyes. This gradually results in
| people having reduced low-light visual acuity. Whoops.
|
| I think people need to be told that artificial light is most
| useful to humans when it bounces off of things. This is why
| streetlights are mounted high on poles, and are designed so all
| the light is directed down.
|
| Bulbs that can be seen are mostly emitting wasted light. A friend
| recently bought some light fixtures on the basis of looking nice
| when the lights are off. I think they're gradually realizing that
| staring directly into LEDs is not a pleasant experience.
|
| In the old days, people bought light fixtures to hide the bulbs,
| and to direct the light where it's needed.
| asdff wrote:
| Back when street lights were all sodium vapor, you could use a
| filter and eliminate a lot of light pollution. These days sodium
| vapor streetlight are being replaced by LED lights, that emit a
| white light and also frequently turn bright blue when they begin
| failing before long, and filtering out this source of light is no
| longer so simple.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| When visiting the Big Island of Hawaii I commented on the color
| of the street lights, which was unfamiliar. It was LED lights,
| but had a yellowish color IIRC.
|
| I was told they were specifically designed to be easy to filter
| out by the telescopes on Mauna Kea, and used all over the
| island.
|
| On a related note, can totally recommend visiting Manua Kea if
| you're in the neighborhood. We watched the sunset from the top
| of Mauna Kea and it was quite something.
| ericbarrett wrote:
| This was true of San Jose from the late 80s until recently,
| by agreement with UCSC / Lick Observatory. Not sure if it's
| still the case, and as the a peer comment says it was
| originally sodium lamps.
| cge wrote:
| Downward-facing, low pressure sodium lamps [1] used to be
| quite common in areas near major telescopes, as they are
| mostly monochromatic; for these, I don't think they were
| specifically designed for these areas, as much as they were
| an older lamp type that, when it was realized that newer
| lamps (eg, high pressure sodium) would be much harder to
| filter, ended up continuing to be used. It seems that, likely
| because there is so much experience developing methods to
| filter out light from LPS lamps, LED replacements have now
| been specifically designed to mimic them.
|
| San Diego used to have many of these, apparently because of
| Palomar. There are a variety of arguments about safety and
| especially perception of safety that often leads to them
| being replaced with brighter, non-monochromatic lamps,
| though, depending on the political clout the telescopes have
| in the area.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-
| vapor_lamp#Light_pollut...
| ballenf wrote:
| I thought I hated sodium yellow until LEDs became ubiquitous.
| They feel much harder to subconsciously tune out and draw my
| attention away from the road when driving much more than the
| old style. Maybe that effect will fade with time, but it hasn't
| happened yet.
| actionfromafar wrote:
| I fucking hate the blinding LED lights with a passion. Also,
| they fuck up the ecosystem in a major way. If we never get rid
| of them, they are visual DDT.
| icedistilled wrote:
| it's particularly obnoxious because LED lights can easily be
| made to be about the same place on the spectrum as the sodium
| vapor lights - it's just costs a few pennies more and has a
| slightly lower light efficiency so typical cheap short
| termism type thinking gets us the blue cold tone LEDS
| m348e912 wrote:
| Why is the area around Punta de Mata in Venezuela off the charts
| with light pollution? It doesn't seem that populated.
| nostromo wrote:
| Street lights are way too common. Let's phase them out entirely
| on non-pedestrian streets.
|
| This is one of my favorite things about Palm Springs, which has
| almost no street lights. The darkness at night is truly
| beautiful. And it saves money and electricity to boot.
|
| Maybe you could even get creative and have street lamps that dim
| up or down based on activity someday.
| dsign wrote:
| This is a nice reminder that the atmosphere is such a pain for
| watching stars. If light pollution for sky-watching is a problem
| for you, citizen stargazer, please write to your local
| representative and ask them to quicken those space colonization
| plans.
| ballenf wrote:
| Maybe we could send up a few dozen telescope micro- or mini-
| satellites and let citizen astronomers share time on them.
| belter wrote:
| Some places are fortunately seeing Dark Skies as a valid tourist
| asset to be protected
|
| Dark Sky Alqueva - The First Starlight Tourism Destination in the
| World: https://darkskyalqueva.com/en/
| igrekel wrote:
| Dark sky protection is definitely a thing and tourism worthy.
| I've known of this one I regularly visited for at least the
| last 15 years https://en.cieletoilemontmegantic.org
| zxcvbn4038 wrote:
| Maybe it's all a conspiracy so that we can't see all the alien
| spacecraft flying around at night?
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