[HN Gopher] Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduc...
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Brief structured respiration enhances mood and reduces
physiological arousal
Author : cdepman
Score : 139 points
Date : 2023-01-22 17:46 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cell.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cell.com)
| acituan wrote:
| This is an extremely weak study that basically launders
| Huberman's "mini interventionism" and abuses west coast's
| fascination with what is mostly "breath-themed magic". The idea
| of hyperregulation of breath is a cousin of hyperregulation of
| dietary intake, which is a western "top-down"ism, latter of which
| induced more disordered eating than it achieved/preserved health.
|
| Regarding the criticisms of this study;
|
| Firstly, the small sample size is based on volunteers, so folks
| already believed there was going to be a payoff from something
| that is 75% breathwork.
|
| Secondly, there is no "sham intervention" class to counter the
| placebo effects from this.
|
| Thirdly, their mindfulness instruction is atypical; it should
| have been passive focus on breath rather than a visual/somatic
| cue on the forehead to be comperable with breath _work_ vs breath
| _focus_.
|
| Finally, their exclusion criteria makes it too restricted;
|
| > For health and safety reasons, we excluded those with self-
| reported _moderate_ to severe psychiatric or medical conditions
| that could be exacerbated by study participation, such as heart
| disease, glaucoma, history of seizures, pregnancy, psychosis,
| suicidality, bipolar disorder, or substance use disorders.
|
| I find it annoying that the list is not exhaustive but we could
| reasonably assume they also had to exclude moderate and above
| depression and anxiety disorders, not to mention panic
| disorder[1]. Anxious folks are particularly sensitive to
| breathwork, and even 10% of their "healthy" population reported
| anxiety as a result of these practices (highest ingroup rate is
| 17%, in the favorite "sighing" group)
|
| Besides the anxiety inducing vs reducing effect of all breathwork
| had more variance than the mindfulness intervention, which puts
| into question whether the cost/benefit of the intervention (not
| to mention it's wide scale applicability) is sufficient.
|
| What Huberman is popular for is known as a "nutrientism" of
| sorts; as in assemble vitamins a, b, c..., this and that
| macronutrient plus this and that micronutrient and you will have
| a full nutritional profile. Not saying he is all bs at all, e.g
| his circadian light stuff is solid, but more often than not after
| the 50th episode these turn into bite sized oversold
| interventions mostly as an illusion of "doing something good for
| me so that I don't have to do anything else".
|
| As a final note, mindfulness meditation traditionally has never
| been an _emotion regulation_ tool, it is an _education_ tool as a
| part of wisdom traditions, none of which had "good affect in one
| month" as the primary metric of their success.
|
| [1] The panic disorder population is even more interesting. 50%
| of the panic disordered people _do not_ suffer from
| hyperventilatory or otherwise respiratory phenomena. Not only
| that, the hyperventilators are suffering from hypocapnia, as in a
| drop in CO2 and not O2, which is completely opposite to Huberman
| 's "dumping CO2 and therefore relaxing" magic/logic.
| swayvil wrote:
| _Take a few deep breaths and you 'll feel calmer and sharper._
|
| I heard that somewhere before.
| FireBy2024 wrote:
| Just noticed that Dr Andrew Huberman is one of the authors of
| this report.
| staplung wrote:
| Videos describing two out of the three breath-work techniques
| mentioned:
|
| 1) cyclic sighing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdhqBGqiMc 2)
| box breathing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmt1Znux58
|
| Couldn't find anything for hyperventilation with retention.
|
| I have no idea if they match the exact mechanics that were tested
| so make of it what you will.
| dalys wrote:
| Cyclic hyperventilation with retention is the same as wim hof
| breathing https://youtu.be/tybOi4hjZFQ as I understood from
| Andrew Huberman
| squeegee_scream wrote:
| The how-to is buried pretty deep for those like me who are
| unfamiliar with cyclic sighing (aka psychological sighing or
| double inhale)
|
| > Participants were informed they should sit down in a chair or,
| if they prefer, to lie down, and to set a timer for 5 min. Then
| they were told to inhale slowly, and that once their lungs were
| expanded, to inhale again once more to maximally fill their lungs
| -- even if the second inhale was shorter in duration and smaller
| in volume than the first, and then to slowly and fully exhale all
| their breath. They were told to repeat this pattern of breathing
| for 5 min. They were also informed that ideally, both inhales
| would be performed via their nose and the exhale would be
| performed via their mouth, but that if they preferred, they were
| welcome to do the breathing entirely through their nose. They
| were also informed that it is normal for the second inhale to be
| briefer than the first.
| HighlandSpring wrote:
| The second sigh sounds like it may, in effect, progressively
| overload your lung capacity. Felt good too
| [deleted]
| Gatsky wrote:
| Mindfulness in this study:
|
| > Participants were informed they should sit down in a chair or,
| if they preferred, to lie down, and then to set a timer for 5
| min. Then they were told to close their eyes and to start
| breathing while focusing their mental attention on their forehead
| region between their two eyes. They were told that if their focus
| drifted from that location to re-recenter their attention by
| focusing back first on their breath and then on the forehead
| region between their eyes. They were told that as thoughts arise,
| to recognize that as normal, refocus their attention back to
| their forehead region and to continue the practice until time has
| elapsed.
|
| Is this a legit expression of mindfulness meditation? It lacks
| any sort of breath modification.
| mehphp wrote:
| Mindfulness meditation just requires you to keep bringing your
| attention back to _something_. The breath is just a very
| convenient option.
| adamtemple wrote:
| Most mindfulness paradigms teach you to notice the breath and
| not modify it. This excerpt is the basics of mindfulness.
| Gatsky wrote:
| And for only 5 minutes?
| martingoodson wrote:
| This isn't a particularly high quality study. Eg no Statistical
| power sample size calculation done beforehand.
| rojobuffalo wrote:
| It's remarkable that I so often lapse in my meditation practice
| when it's such a short time commitment and so consistently
| improves my mood. I tell myself that morning yoga is enough or a
| walking meditation while taking the dog out is enough - I do
| those every day without fail. But they're not the same as seated
| breath work.
|
| Why do other mood improvement habits seem more approachable, like
| making a cup of tea or exercise or a shower, while sitting and
| breathing seems harder?
| nvader wrote:
| I've heard meditation described as "motionless ju-jitsu with
| yourself". In the absence of any obstacle, the only opponent is
| you, but by definition you are equal in strength to yourself.
| So meditation can devolve into a heated evenly-matched contest
| of wills, which is extremely draining.
| weregiraffe wrote:
| "Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything"
| rojobuffalo wrote:
| Oh man I love that description! It makes me think how
| exercise is like a contest against physical limits, which are
| knowable. Hard work leads to heavier lifts or longer runs.
| But when you kick your own ass in meditation, the limits are
| more ambiguous and progress isn't so linear.
| nprateem wrote:
| It certainly shouldn't. Your aim is just to keep bringing
| your attention back to the object of attention. Each time you
| do that is a success, so feel pleased with yourself at that
| point.
|
| Fighting is a bad habit that will send you down a blind
| alleyway in meditation. There should be no striving, no
| effort, just gentle persistence.
| calebio wrote:
| Very well said! Your comment reminded me of this video I saw
| a few years ago, "Understanding the Monkey Mind" --
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-JiQubfMPg
|
| When you stop fighting your monkey mind, your monkey mind
| becomes your friend and ally instead of your opponent or
| enemy.
| leashless wrote:
| http://files.howtolivewiki.com/.meditation_2015/transcripts/...
| This came out of an attempt to strip the core meditation
| techniques down to completely remove the mysticism, and adjust
| the practice cycle for long-term solo practitioners who are
| agnostic or atheist and can't lean on concepts like "The
| Buddha" or "Lord Shiva" (although I myself am Hindu.)
|
| The critical innovation is doing ten minute rounds of different
| practices, so no practice is held for very long. This seems to
| help a ton with "mind wanders" and surprisingly doesn't seem to
| impair overall progress at all. If anything the rotation of
| practices seems to improve overall concentration and keeps
| people from hallucinating because they've been staring at a
| blank wall for six hours!
| stanislavb wrote:
| The million dollar question! I guess as we can't "see" the
| direct benefit and it somehow seems boring -\\_(tsu)_/-.
| jddj wrote:
| You might be understating the task.
|
| After all, _all of humanity 's problems stem from man's
| inability to sit quietly in a room alone_
| swayvil wrote:
| Re : lapse in meditation practice.
|
| Concentration meditation. I used to do it as much as possible.
| Every day. Sometimes 2, 3, 6 times. I was kinda nuts. But my
| practice was strong.
|
| Vipassana + concentration. My practice was extremely erratic.
|
| Vipassana. Just vipassana. That's what I do now. My practice is
| very consistent. Haven't missed a day in a decade.
|
| I think it's because vipassana is more compatible with the rest
| of my life than concentration. So there's no big transition.
| I'm basically doing vipassana, in varying degrees, all the
| time.
|
| For what it's worth.
| wpietri wrote:
| For me during meditation, many thoughts arise. Often they are
| things I am troubled or anxious about. If I am doing something
| else, I have a ready-made distraction from those thoughts. But
| if I'm just sitting, I actually have to be present for them.
| It's much harder to build a habit where the short-term payoff
| is negative.
|
| You might try making it part of a broader routine. Lately (and
| unusually for me) I've been struggling with sleep. So I've
| explicitly adopted a bedtime routine that gets me to wind down.
| As part of that, I light a big candle when I start the routine.
| Then the last thing I do before blowing out the candle getting
| into bed is to sit down by the candle and use it as a
| medication focus. This way I feel like I'm getting the sitting
| for "free" in that I don't have to expend any willpower to make
| it happen; there are other positive associations that serve as
| the reward.
| klyrs wrote:
| > sitting and breathing seems harder?
|
| The stillness, I think. With adhd, that's my challenge anyway.
| The mind does not shut off, and 5 minutes can feel like
| forever. Even thinking about it makes me squirm. But I took a
| yoga class once that did breathwork, and with guidance, I found
| the ability to focus my entire attention on my breath; the
| action and the feeling of it.
| DFHippie wrote:
| The one that works is the one that people do without special
| training: sighing*. There had to be some reason why people sigh.
|
| * Yes, this is an odd sort of sighing, but it isn't that
| different from spontaneous sighing. And people also
| hyperventilate on their own, but mostly preparatory to diving or
| holding their breath for some other reason.
| klyrs wrote:
| > And people also hyperventilate on their own, but mostly
| preparatory to diving or holding their breath for some other
| reason.
|
| It's common for people to hyperventilate in the midst of a
| panic attack, and the common advice I've seen is to encourage a
| panicked person to take deep breaths. Strange to see it as a
| consideration for beneficial effects. As a kid I'd
| hyperventilate to feel dizzy because it was fun (oops was I
| getting high?)
| kbutler wrote:
| Except sighing isn't generally a natural response to stress,
| but a response to boredom.
|
| So maybe it's consciously emulating a natural behavior matching
| a lower-stress state, to help shift to that state.
|
| From personal experience, the deep inhalation preceding a sigh
| (extended exhalation) is also helpful.
| nobodyandproud wrote:
| A sigh of frustration is pretty common. Biting one's tongue
| and taking a breathe.
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| So physiological sighing seems to be more effective than other
| things at improving mood and arousal.
|
| How would one learn how to do it properly? I don't think a random
| Youtube video has enough credibility.
| calebio wrote:
| A lot of breath work is very specific to the individual.
| Guides, how-tos, videos can often make people more anxious
| because their body is behaving slightly differently than their
| "source".
|
| Surprisingly, you don't need to learn it as much as you just
| need to do it and think about how your body feels as you do it.
|
| When you exhale, just exhale like you were just relieved of
| something horrible... or like you're saying "whewwwwwwwwww" as
| in "whewww, that's a relief".
|
| Don't worry about how many seconds it was, don't really count
| unless you like to, just breath and feel the feelings.
|
| When you do that a few times, especially after a slow inhale...
| it starts to feel really good, really natural, and in a weird
| way when you think it's going to work and think it's going to
| feel good, it actually ends up feeling good and relieving
| stress.
| wayeq wrote:
| The cyclic breathing required by swimming has a large overlap
| with the breathing techniques described in this study, and I
| suspect it has a lot to do with how much of a mental health
| improvement it is for me.
|
| Coupled with the full body muscle engagement and cardiovascular
| training that comes along with it, it seems like the perfect
| exercise for those that have access to a pool.
| rolph wrote:
| this sounds alot like pranayama
| [deleted]
| unity1001 wrote:
| I tried this humming thing some people are recommending, and I
| think it actually works.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH40wdhzUuM
|
| Its based on solid research - test groups that hum in the
| specific frequency were found to have increased their nitric
| oxide production a dozen or more times. Whereas control groups
| and groups that did the meditation in another frequency either
| did not produce any different amount or comparably low amounts.
| JaggerFoo wrote:
| I like that they described how each method is performed. The
| mindful meditation method was a bit different from what I've
| used, but something I can adopt.
|
| So cyclic sighing can replace mindful meditation, except that it
| requires more use to reap the benefits.
|
| So now Cyclic Sighing, Mindful Meditation and Binaural Beats are
| techniques I can call upon in times of stress.
|
| Cheers
| [deleted]
| guybedo wrote:
| there are many interesting breathing techniques, interestingly it
| usually provides benefits similar to a meditation practice. I
| added this one to my routines:
| https://routineshub.com/public/items/760bb353-35cc-483c-adce...
|
| I also regularly practice Andrew Weil's 478 breathing
| https://routineshub.com/public/items/fb2c75bd-4d6d-424e-925a...
| knaik94 wrote:
| I enjoy and use this breathing technique but I haven't ever
| practiced or cared about mindful meditation. In my experience
| doing breathing exercises while doing something physical helps me
| way more than doing it while sitting. The most interesting result
| from this study was the change in the spread for HRV.
|
| I personally found that having physical markers for when to
| breathe in and out made it a lot easier to understand and
| practice. Tying yoga poses to the amount of time I hold air made
| is easier to track my improvements too. I imagine swimming
| similarly allows a more structured way to practice cyclic
| breathing. I was able to break an 8 minute 2k row when I did it
| with cyclic breathing. Nothing has improved my cardio as much as
| erg + controlled breathing, I use pretty short intervals.
|
| Another place cyclic breathing was crucial was when I did
| marching band. I played trombone so it was mandatory that I have
| athletic lung capacity. I was told that the exercises aren't
| making your lungs bigger, you're getting used to having your
| lungs stay expanded for longer.
|
| The most important thing was the extra breath you take after you
| feel like your lungs are completely full. Everyone coughs when
| you take in that extra bit of air after breathing in deeply, in
| the beginning. There's plastic ball valve things you can buy to
| observe your breathing but I never personally saw it as useful. A
| relative was given something similar after a heart attack in
| order to monitor lung strength during recovery.
|
| It's also pretty common to recommend some type of cyclic
| breathing when handling anxiety. It helps control and lower the
| physical symptoms of anxiety like rapid heart rate.
|
| Looking up box/cyclic breathing guides for athletes or music
| students might help, if you are looking for more structure
| guides. The cyclic breathing in this study is not the same as
| circular breathing.
| williamscales wrote:
| I have pretty severe anxiety at this time and these breathing
| practices have really helped me get out of a bad situation
| without medication:
|
| 1) Box breathing
|
| 2) Yoganidra (even if I'm not trying to fall asleep)
| tsujamin wrote:
| +1 box breathing
| jawon wrote:
| Yoga Nidra for sure. Except it can be really effective at
| putting you to sleep. I now have trouble listening to any track
| on this album without passing out:
| https://open.spotify.com/album/00Dzgh60bmNigM9fvckKa3?si=sqO...
| photochemsyn wrote:
| The article briefly mentions "diaphragmatic breathing" without
| going into it, but it's one of the best ways to do breathing
| exercises in a slow, controlled and relaxing manner while sitting
| upright at a desk. It's also a part of the training for
| vocalists, and that a good source on how-to guides, e.g.
|
| https://www.singwise.com/articles/correct-breathing-and-supp...
|
| > "It is also important to note that, in voice pedagogy,
| 'breathing from the diaphragm' and 'breathing from the belly' are
| not viewed as being synonymous. The breath support technique that
| is widely referred to as 'diaphragmatic breathing', (when
| correctly executed), should not be confused with 'belly
| breathing'. Unlike 'belly breathing', 'breathing from the
| diaphragm' involves no pushing or forceful expulsion of air, and
| is the natural, correct, safe, gentle, internationally accepted
| method of supporting the singing tone. In diaphragmatic
| breathing, the tone rides on a minimal and steady stream of air,
| which brings stability and consistency to the tone."
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(page generated 2023-01-22 23:00 UTC)