[HN Gopher] Making chloroform so I can sleep better at night [vi...
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Making chloroform so I can sleep better at night [video]
Author : O__________O
Score : 101 points
Date : 2023-01-24 19:04 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| Octokiddie wrote:
| It's worth noting that the general class of reaction described
| here ("Haloform reaction") was discovered in 1822, and
| rediscovered after that:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haloform_reaction
|
| Organic chemistry is a very old field whose older literature can
| still be used and remains relevant today.
|
| Also, inhaling anything you produce in a lab, even if you did
| distill it, is idiotic.
| fragmede wrote:
| Even if you're Albert Hofmann or Alexander "Sasha" Shulgin?
| tiku wrote:
| My history on YouTube is suddenly very slow to load and not
| working correctly after watching this video..
| optimalsolver wrote:
| What would ChatGPT say about this?
| whoomp12342 wrote:
| [flagged]
| BeriWan wrote:
| [flagged]
| gus_massa wrote:
| The author is Chemdelic. I was expecting a video by Nile Red, but
| I was not disappointed. (As the video explain, don't try this at
| home unless you have a degree in Chemistry or something. That
| invisible fumes looks nasty.)
| petre wrote:
| Definitely do not try this at home without a Chemistry degree.
| Why? It's easy to accidentaly produce phosgene (WWI chemical
| weapon, smells like freshly cut grass) by combining chloroform
| fumes and oxygen under UV light or chlorine with carbon
| monoxide from a gas burner (yellow flame).
| O__________O wrote:
| Agree, surprised there are not more warnings on the video,
| especially given the video's title.
|
| As a comparison, here's NileRed's version:
|
| https://youtube.com/watch?v=j-PrAczOGb0
| gus_massa wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L23akTkDqTM&t=79s :)
| labrador wrote:
| I'm a recovering nitrous oxide addict so this is interesting, but
| people should proceed with caution. I didn't know laughing gas
| could be addictive for some people until it was too late.
|
| In the film Cider House Rules, Michael Caine plays a doctor
| addicted to ether for sleep
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cider_House_Rules_(film)
|
| Google result: Is chloroform stronger than ether? Fluothane and
| chloroform produced similar anesthesia, and was 4 1/2 times more
| potent than ether.
| siliconunit wrote:
| just another perspective, tried maybe 2-3 50packs in few weeks
| as well..using a normal whipped cream bottle and then inhaling
| through that (empty lungs no overpressure, light trigger), once
| I did quite a bunch sequentially (15 or so) heavy brain
| fog/body numbness etc..it's pleasant, but since I had no more
| than scientific/artistic curiosity I stopped without drama, be
| in a ventilated place.
| cwkoss wrote:
| Did you have any issues with B12 deficiency? I've always
| wondered to what extent oral B12 supplementation can mitigate
| the health risks of chronic nitrous use.
| labrador wrote:
| Yes I need to take B-12 liquid orally or by shot, but my
| grandfather had pernicious anemia and it's hereditary, so I
| don't know whose fault it is. Other than that I have no major
| health problems, but I have neuropathic nerve pains that the
| doctor has never seen before so he blames the nitrous. It's
| not too bad. I was aware that I needed to take a lot of B-12
| at the time. People ask me why I didn't get a tank instead of
| spending all the money on whippets. Because I would have died
| with a tank.
|
| Two more cautions. Nitrous is an oxidant. I found out the
| hard way when I almost set myself on fire smoking and doing
| nitrous. Also, that whah whah you feel when inhaling is not
| nitrous. That's hypoxia which can cause serious brain damage.
| I learned to do nitrous in a continuous stream without the
| hypoxia like at the dentist office.
|
| Edit: I remembered a third caution: nitrous is a hypnotic
| like kratom. You lose control, like an alcoholic or benzos
| blackout. One time after doing a bunch of kratom I "came to"
| riding my bike in my underwear at 2 am thinking I was going
| to find a swimming pool to take a swim. Fun times.
| cwkoss wrote:
| Very interesting, thanks for the reply!
| fragmede wrote:
| * * *
| hattmall wrote:
| So like how much nitrous did you do?
| labrador wrote:
| Let's see there's 50 whippets in a box, 12 boxes in a case. I
| did a couple hundred cases before I finally stopped. My last
| two binges 5 years apart were 15 cases over a 2 week period
| and 20 cases over a 10 day period. Once I start cracking
| whippets I can't stop. It felt almost like an OCD thing.
| pcthrowaway wrote:
| Was it a physical addiction? Like would you actually go
| through withdrawals from not being on Nitrous?
|
| I've done a little bit, a long long time ago, but didn't
| realize this was a possibility.
|
| I didn't really enjoy it personally
| labrador wrote:
| No, there's no withdrawal so it must not by physical, but
| it would trash my nervous system so I was sick and in
| pain for a few days. Nothing more nitrous won't cure! So
| the cycle of abuse would continue until I physically
| couldn't go on.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| * whip-its
| mahathu wrote:
| Probably it would be more efficient to fill up balloons
| from a larger tank and then inhaling from the balloons. You
| can continuously breathe in and out from the same balloon
| multiple times for a few times until all the N2O has been
| absorbed by the body (hypothetically)
| labrador wrote:
| I cracked the whippets into a large plastic bag and then
| inhaled from that. I stuck with whippets because it was
| the fail safe option.
| skulk wrote:
| My buddy and I used to crack whippets with a knife and
| frantically try to put the neck into a balloon with....
| mixed results. The idea of using a plastic bag never
| occurred to us!
| kadoban wrote:
| Giving a drug addict, who obviously doesn't want to be
| doing the drug anymore, advice on how to more efficiently
| do drugs seems at _best_ morally questionable.
|
| They've probably already worked out many other options
| and know this, but even so...just why do this?
| labrador wrote:
| mahathu isn't telling me something I didn't already know.
| When you are obsessed you figure all the angles. The only
| way I stopped was to take months long road trips to
| places that didn't sell nitrous, like the Alaskan
| wilderness. I did find spiritual recovery by reading Zen
| books on the road, so now I live in San Jose where there
| are smoke shops selling whippets on every corner and
| don't have a problem with it.
|
| Nitrous was useful for helping me look at traumas I
| suffered in the military by muting my anxiety and strong
| emotions when I approached the subject. Another reason I
| don't have a problem with nitrous right now is that I
| worked through my traumas adequately.
| Jolter wrote:
| Let's try not to help encourage a recovering adding to do
| drugs in a new, more efficient, way.
| xkcd-sucks wrote:
| Chloroform is great for extractions (if you don't care about the
| environment) because it sinks to the bottom of a sep funnel, but
| the thing about it being a knockout gas or sleep aid is complete
| BS.
|
| Based on an unpublished study of about 4 degenerate chemistry
| undergrads: - It PROBABLY takes several minutes
| of inhalation through a saturated rag to induce full loss of
| consciousness, although shorter times do produce noticeable
| wooziness - However, full unconsciousness was not
| achieved in any subject because chloroform tasted too Totally
| Gross to continue past a minute or so (choking sickly-sweet)
| - Subjective effects wore off within a few minutes, however the
| gross flavor persisted for several hours afterword much longer as
| residual chloroform washed out (along with mild headaches)
| - Ingestion was not investigated.
|
| So, in order to incapacitate someone you would have to force them
| to do really unpleasant for a long time, in which case you might
| as well choke them out, and the victim would regain consciousness
| quickly. And as a sleep aid it would likely need to be ingested,
| would induce sleep but not maintain it (i.e. wake up shortly),
| and would leave the user reeking of gross chloroform for long
| after.
|
| Join us for our continued lecture series, covering topics such
| as: - Why microwave assisted reactions in DMSO
| are a bad idea - Why attempting GHB synthesis via
| permanganate oxidation of THF is a bad idea - Harm
| reduction re: consumption of USP 99.9% ethanol - How
| peroxyacid syntheses of various things do not scale up well and
| how they absolutely should not be coerced into running more
| quickly - The poor efficacy of DMSO in assisting drug
| translocation through skin
| kortex wrote:
| > Join us for our continued lecture series, covering topics
| such as
|
| Please share/blog these! I too have several degenerate
| chemistry undergrad stories.
|
| > The poor efficacy of DMSO in assisting drug translocation
| through skin
|
| Yep. During one particularly sleep-deprived finals week, and
| after recently learning about DMSO's transdermal transportation
| abilities, my friend and I tried making caffeine skin patches.
| It worked...vaguely increasing alertness. However, it itched
| and burned worse than just about anything I've ever
| experienced.
|
| Also I can concur that chloroform isn't some instant knock-out
| juice. But one time, a lab mate and I were running massive
| columns and had accumulated several hundred liters of DCM
| (dichloromethane) fractions in flasks (yes, it was a loong
| day). Despite the walk-in hoods running at full bore, by the
| end of the day, coworker and I were loopy, giggly idiots. Was
| it above OSHA PEL? Possibly, but probably not. I think the
| disinhibition was a combination of energy drinks,
| fatigue+boredom of running hundreds of fractions, and
| suggestibility, as much as it was the fumes. But my lab manager
| did walk in at one point and immediately recoiled from the
| fumes (which we were nose-deaf to at that point).
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| You have to really dilute DMSO if you're going to put it on
| your skin.
| kortex wrote:
| I mean, pure DMSO on the skin feels fine, albeit not the
| safest.
| joosters wrote:
| _But my lab manager did walk in at one point and immediately
| recoiled from the fumes (which we were nose-deaf to at that
| point)._
|
| I don't know whether it's true or not, but I remember a
| chemistry lecturer telling me that you don't need to worry
| about terrible smells in the lab, our noses are sensitive to
| extremely miniscule levels of chemicals. It's when the levels
| are so high that they have overpowered our senses and knocked
| out our sense of smell, _that 's_ when you need to worry! A
| wonderfully paradoxical piece of advice...
| kortex wrote:
| More or less, but with caveats. It's true that many smells
| (eg H2S, HCN) are detectable before toxic levels, and then
| become un-smellable at higher levels (saturates and
| depletes olfactory receptors). But you should still worry
| about certain terrible smells, because that's often the
| first sign that something is going wrong. Containment
| failure, reaction runaway, maybe someone dumped the wrong
| thing in the wrong waste barrel and now it's reacting, etc.
|
| There's also things which are toxic at the same levels as
| olfaction, and of course there toxins which are dangerous
| by the time you have smelled them, or you lack the gene to
| smell. Most really smelly things aren't acutely toxic like
| that though. Take DMS (dimethyl sulfide, byproduct of Swern
| oxidation. Smells like boiling cabbage at low
| concentration, and liquid ass at high concentration. If you
| are running a Swern in a fume hood, you are likely quite
| well-contained even if you've made the whole lab smell like
| a cesspit.
|
| When we ran cyanation at the kilo scale, you better believe
| we had HCN detectors all over the place, wore full-face
| respirators, etc.
| somebodynew wrote:
| Hydrogen sulfide is a severe example: it initially smells
| strongly of rotten eggs but quickly damages the nose until
| it is undetectable and further exposure can be lethal. For
| most other chemicals, smells only fade to the background
| during prolonged lab work through mundane desensitization.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| > Harm reduction re: consumption of USP 99.9% ethanol
|
| According to Ignition! by John Clark, high-purity ethanol used
| for rocket fuel undergoes a similar phenomenon when in storage
| tanks near rocket scientists and Navy personnel. Interesting to
| see that this also occurs in the proximity of undergrads. Study
| operators claimed that dissolving the ethanol in H2O, or,
| preferably, lime juice and/or soda water, merits further study.
|
| But yes, I would also be interested in reading that continued
| series.
| function_seven wrote:
| So far the correlation between personnel proximity and tank
| depletion is just that: a correlation. All attempts at
| establishing causality have been met with fuzzy
| recollections, outright denials, and conflicting reports.
|
| More investigations are warranted.
| kortex wrote:
| > The poor efficacy of DMSO in assisting drug translocation
| through skin
|
| Oh yeah, for the observer gallery: The reason DMSO (and DMF,
| DMAc, HF, to an extent haloforms, and polar aprotic solvents in
| general) are dangerous is that they can dissolve and transport
| small molecules (under 1000 daltons, possibly more) through
| your skin and into the bloodstream. They go straight through
| nitrile, vinyl, and latex gloves. You need to match the glove
| to the solvent. For these strong solvents, you want aliphatic
| polymers (LDPE) or laminates (mylar aka aluminized polyester).
|
| Actually one of the best protection schemes is the shoulder-
| length polyethylene gloves used for ...ahem... bovine
| obstetrics, with nitrile over that for grip and to keep the cow
| glove in place. Looks hilarious but great for pouring nasty
| solutions or weighing dusty powders.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/livestocktool-com-Disposable-Artifici...
| spaceguillotine wrote:
| you're telling me that movies LIED to me my entire life, i'm
| shocked, SHOCKED i tell you!!!!
| RajT88 wrote:
| It could well be a similar phenomenon to how silencers on
| firearms absolutely do not make a gun sound like it sounds in
| the movies, but because it's become an established (and
| convenient) film trope, it persists in film.
|
| Similarly - films depicting kidnapping people using chloroform
| as an instant knockout drug.
| johng wrote:
| A suppressed .300 blackout subsonic round sounds like the
| movies. It's unreal. The slide and mechanics of the gun are
| louder than the round. A rather large round, at that.
| occamrazor wrote:
| I remember reading (can't find the source anymore) that ether
| would work as knock-out drug, and that indeed it was used as
| a plot device in crime books as chloroform is used in movies
| today. The problem is that ether can be highly toxic at
| relatively low dosage, and then it was replaced by chloroform
| in fiction to avoid giving dangerous ideas to people.
|
| Is there any truth behind this theory?
| at-fates-hands wrote:
| Just some anecdotal evidence to support what you're saying.
|
| When I was in college and a freshman, I was told the urban
| legend about the "ether bunny". The story about a freshman
| who finds out his roommate has been drugging and having sex
| with him using ether.
|
| I wasn't very knowledgeable about these stories or urban
| legends in general so when I was home for Christmas
| vacation, I told my Dad about it, and he started laughing
| and said it was an old college urban legend but when he was
| told it (in the 1960's) as a freshman they used chloroform
| instead of ether. He mentioned some other details about the
| story that were changed due to the times, but that was one
| point that was clearly changed over time, possibly for the
| same reason.
| martopix wrote:
| However, drink 'spiking' for the same purpose is a thing,
| and people have been jailed for it.
| tarotuser wrote:
| Weirdly enough, ether can be drank. Erowid has a great many
| self-reported case studies of the effects of ether drinking
|
| https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Ether.shtml
|
| I've never consumed or inhaled it myself. However from
| someone who I know drank it, said the high is rapid and
| intense. Basically, it's enough to get you arrested for a
| public intox, and by the time you're at the police station,
| you're completely sober, save for your breath smelling like
| gasoline.
|
| Another source about consumption of ether in 19th c Ireland
| : https://www.newscientist.com/letter/mg19125630-800-bring-
| bac...
|
| https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(11
| )...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ether_addiction
|
| As a final edit: It's probably a really bad idea to inhale
| or drink ether.. but it is definitely drinkable.
| cwkoss wrote:
| "The only thing that really worried me was the ether.
| There is nothing in the world more helpless and
| irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an
| ether binge. And I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff
| pretty soon. Probably at the next gas station." -- Hunter
| S. Thompson
| kortex wrote:
| Ether and chloroform both have relatively narrow
| therapeutic windows - the toxic dose is very close to the
| minimum active dose. But they were one of the few true
| anaesthetics at the time (late 1800s). Alcohol was also
| used for surgery but it's slower and inhibits clotting. In
| fact often it'd be a combination of all three, known as ACE
| [1]. This worked okay-ish, as the GABA-ergic synergy was
| able to suppress consciousness and memory without poisoning
| the patient's heart or liver (as) severely.
|
| The other big issue was flammability.
|
| Ether still takes enough time to reduce consciousness that
| you have a good minute or two (minimum) of struggle. It's
| not "towel over face, muffled screaming, then sleepytime".
| But an attacker with advantage of surprise and a decent
| grapple could usually get the target dosed before they
| could break free.
|
| [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACE_mixture
| kyleblarson wrote:
| Suppressed subsonic 300 blackout is pretty darn close to the
| movies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AUDVoGOCxw
| karaterobot wrote:
| It's quiet enough that those guys are not completely crazy
| for not having ear protection -- but of course the
| microphone is not picking up the full volume of the shots
| either, any more than it does for unsuppressed, supersonic
| rounds.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Microphones generally are very bad at picking real volume
| of gunshots, silenced or not, subsonic or not, small,
| large and massive calibers alike
| cwkoss wrote:
| Would be fun for a show like law and order to do an episode
| where someone is framed with chloroform and part of solving
| the crime is excluding the framed person because the
| chloroform TV trope isnt based in science.
| isk517 wrote:
| Excuse me sir, but are you implying that in 1993 at
| WrestleMania 9 when Giant Gonzalez knocked out the Undertaker
| using a chloroform soaked rag that it was all fake? If so then
| mister, I think you are full of crap. /s
| ss108 wrote:
| It was real if it was real to you goddammit
| listless wrote:
| Upvoted despite the Reddit flavoring
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Professional wrestling got a lot more fun and cool when I
| realized it isn't "fake", because it isn't trying to be real
| because it's actually supposed to be modern day Shakespeare
| anthk wrote:
| Just take a single melatonine pill. They're usually safe.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| jdlyga wrote:
| Make sure you open an incognito window before clicking on this,
| or your YouTube recommendations will look weird for a bit
| cwkoss wrote:
| Is there a youtube channel all about how chemical waste is
| neutralized for disposal? What happens to the tub of very basic
| water and maybe some bleach? Just pour down the drain? What pHs
| are safe to pour down the drain? How is more complex waste, like
| containing pharmacological products or heavy metals, neutralized
| and disposed?
| scheme271 wrote:
| It all really depends. For liquid wastes, you probably want to
| get it close to neutral so that it doesn't mess up your
| plumbing if you pour it down the drain. For any complex organic
| or any inorganic stuff, you probably want to capture it and
| then send it to a chemical disposal facility.
| [deleted]
| adamsmith143 wrote:
| Undergrad in our lab was working after hours and once dropped an
| entire jug of choloroform which promptly exploded on the floor.
| He shat a brick and ran out of the building. Fire Department and
| Hazmat cleanup crews both showed up and shut down the entire
| building.
| cinntaile wrote:
| Don't you usually only take what you need such that accidents
| like these can't happen?
| l33t233372 wrote:
| Presumably you take what you need from a larger container
| that can be dropped.
| bradwood wrote:
| And his favourite pick-up line?
|
| > Would you like to see the back of my van?
| ravenstine wrote:
| I decided to open the Wikipedia page for Chloroform while this
| video played and thought it was interesting that the idea that
| criminals can immediately knock someone out with a chloroform
| soaked rag is really a work of fiction. Not that it couldn't be
| done, but that it would probably take minutes and not just a few
| seconds.
| O__________O wrote:
| Not to mention health risks related to chloroform:
|
| https://dhss.delaware.gov/dph/files/chloroformfaq.pdf
| dalyons wrote:
| Pro tip: make it boiling hot. I knocked myself out instantly
| (but briefly) by accidentally breathing in over a boiling
| chloroform vat at a biotech internship. Came to a few seconds
| later on the floor. (Don't actually recommend)
| pcthrowaway wrote:
| Did anyone see it happen? Were you close to falling in?
| xen2xen1 wrote:
| Was that the chloroform or hypoxia like someone mentioned?
| Seems the second would be much more dangerous?
| Apocryphon wrote:
| Now I'm wondering if the fictional trope effect can be reversed
| by the trope of using smelling salts to rouse a fainted person.
| yreg wrote:
| There is a reason why anesthesiologists are paid well. Knocking
| someone out safely is not a joke.
|
| (Not only in US where everything health-related involves big
| money, but also in the countries which underpay other
| healthcare professionals.)
| antognini wrote:
| My dad is an anesthesiologist and likes to joke that he can
| knock you out for cheap. Waking you up afterwards costs
| extra.
| binarymax wrote:
| This really is the ultimate anesthesiologist dad joke.
| [deleted]
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| There's a historical crime fiction series that intertwines the
| real history and discovery of Choloroform, gynecology etc. with
| crime:
|
| https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38114460-the-way-of-all-...
|
| The author "Ambrose Parry" is a pseudonym for the combined
| talents of a crime writer and his wife, who is an anaesthetist
| with a master's degree in the History of Medicine
| fsckboy wrote:
| > _intertwines the real history and discovery of Choloroform,
| gynecology etc. with crime_
|
| "phrasing!" - Archer
|
| when you juxtapose chloroform, gynecology, and crime like
| that, are you suggesting that the real history of chloroform
| was as a date rape drug, but I need to read a fictional crime
| series to learn about it? As in the modern day, new
| technology is first adopted by the sex (we call it porn)
| trade, I guess I wouldn't be shocked shocked, but is this the
| truth?
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| can't you just mix bleach with ethanol?
| gus_massa wrote:
| You should ask a real Chemistry [1], but in case there is none
| nearby
|
| Organic reactions are a mess, and there are a lot of side
| reactions.
|
| My guess is that mixing ethanol and bleach produce a mix of
| chloroform and other stuff.
|
| Ethanol is H H | | H-C-C-O-H
| | | H H
|
| and my guess is that the mix has a lot of the thing you get
| replacing the lash Hydrogen with Chloride H H
| | | H-C-C-O-Cl | | H H
|
| Acetone has no -O-H so you probably don't get too much stuff
| like that.
|
| [1] I only have a specialization in Chemistry Secondary School,
| it's somewhat similar to 1 or 2 years of a Chemistry Major (of
| 5 years). I know enough to understand the explanation in the
| video, but not enough to write them. [I've used similar
| equipment for other experiments a long time ago. For example,
| the connector to the water at the top of the condenser, should
| it be pointing up instead of pointing to one side?]
| kortex wrote:
| I'm a bit rusty (worked as a chemist 2011-2015 before going
| into compsci) but I believe that this reaction produces some
| chloroform (enough that you should not mix ethanol and bleach
| inadvertently), but mostly as a side-reaction. The main
| reaction will be oxidation to acetaldehyde and then acetate.
| But it's slow, you probably get a bunch of side-reactions, etc.
|
| Acetone is a facile haloform reagent because the carbonyl
| acidifies ("loosens") the alpha hydrogen which allows the
| chlorine to attack the carbon.
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(page generated 2023-01-24 23:00 UTC)